keithj43@yahoo.com wrote in
news:1112159715.506818.239000@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

wcb wrote:

keithj43@yahoo.com wrote:

I'd note: making a claim isn't making a circular argument.

we

know today contradicts the claims of the Gospel of Christ. And

this

thread Randy didn't call anyone ignorant for disbelieving
Christianity--he called Truth Seeker ignorant *of* Christian

belief.

The problem is, the gospels don't agree hardly on any two 'facts'

about

Jesus. So the claims of the bible are not only unsupported, but
contradictory and thus utterly untrustworthy.

The Gospel is a little different from the *gospels*. But I will
comment on your essay below:

Some of the alleged differences are not contradictions so they

all be true. A passage that says two people saw the Risen Lord

contradict a passage that says 5 people did, since if 5 people saw

then so did 2.

That is such a lame apologetic.

But I see no reason to quibble about that. The
differences between the stories is rather minor if you ask me,
especially in light of the fact that the written documents werw
written some number of years after the event being described. There

much more the Gospels *agree* on, for example they agree about the
nature of God and of Christ.

A minor contradiction is still a contradiction.

--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."

keithj43@yahoo.com wrote:

wcb wrote:

keithj43@yahoo.com wrote:

I'd note: making a claim isn't making a circular argument.

we

know today contradicts the claims of the Gospel of Christ. And

this

thread Randy didn't call anyone ignorant for disbelieving
Christianity--he called Truth Seeker ignorant *of* Christian

belief.

The problem is, the gospels don't agree hardly on any two 'facts'

about

Jesus. So the claims of the bible are not only unsupported, but
contradictory and thus utterly untrustworthy.

The Gospel is a little different from the *gospels*. But I will

on your essay below:

Some of the alleged differences are not contradictions so they

all be true.

No. They can't.

A passage that says two people saw the Risen Lord doesn't
contradict a passage that says 5 people did,

If a passage says 2 women went to the tomb, and another says it was
5 or more, we have a contradiction.

John says it was one woman.
One says the two women found teh tomb still blocked by a stone.
Others do not. The stories are so different that they are not

true.

What you are doing is chery picking one or twe claims and
trying to twist things to pretend they are not contradictions
while ignoring the whole series of contradictions.

So 2 women = 5 women,...

ignore the differences in these tall tales
like the 2 women telling the apostles to go to Galilee,
and being believed, and 5 or more women telling the apostles
of the empty tomb, not telling them go to Galilee and not being
believed.

No, these tall tales are not true.
Trying to tease out a few details you can pretend are not
contradictions doesn't cut the mustard when you try to ignore
the total mass of numerous contradictions.

Mark says they flee and "tell no man". Not what we see in Matthew.
Matthew has a ***** and bull tall tale of an earthquake and
an angel descening, dramatically rolling away the stone and siting on

No angel in the other tall tales. Not in the other tall tales,
to stone is missing. Matthew has a dramatic meeting of the
two women and Jesus.

We don't see that in Mark or Luke.

Sorry. Trying to pick a few details out of a mass and pretending
2 = 5 while ignoring the many, many other discrepencies and massive
contradictions simply doesn't cut the mustard.

Nor are these the only problems.

since if 5 people saw him
then so did 2.

2 =/= 5.

In Luke a veritable crowd. In John. Mary Magdalene alone.
in Matthew, 2 women. But these are hardly the worst problems
and contradictions in these tall tales.
In John, Mary runs and tell two, not eleven apostles.
They believe her and run to the tomb. Luke, eleven
apostles. Who do not believe them at all.
Mark? They are afraid and flee and "tell no man".

No, 2 =/= 5.

But I see no reason to quibble about that. The
differences between the stories is rather minor if you ask me,

Then you aren't bothering to read these tall tales.

Matthew has a dramatic colapse of numerous soldiers.

No soldiers collapsing in Mark or John.

In Matthew, the apostles go to Galilee.
In Mark and Luke they do not.

especially in light of the fact that the written documents werw

some number of years after the event being described. There is much
more the Gospels *agree* on, for example they agree about the

God and of Christ.

No, they don't. John is quite different from the Synoptics.
And the nature of Christ, as he himself explained was, he was
going to preside over the end of the earth and judgment day 1930
years ago.

Which he didn't. So if the gospels get THAT wrong, not much else
matters. The real nature of Christ was, he was a religous kook.
His whole claim that the world was to end long ago, simply failed.


No are these only contradictions, not by a long shot.

**************************************
Contradictions of the gospels,
Jesus and his apostles and ascension.


Mark 16
Jesus meets Mary Magdalene, then two
unnamed disciples. He appears to the
eleven remaining apostles who are hiding
in a room in Jerusalem. He speaks to them
and then "..after the lord had spoken to
them he was recieved up into heaven."

Matthew 28.
Jesus is never in Jerusalem at all. He sends
word that the apostles are to meet him in
Galilee, "Then the eleven disciples went into
Galilee into a mountain Jesus had appointed
them."
No ascension to heaven is mentioned at all.

Luke 24
Jesus appears to two unnamed disciples,
then to the eleven apostles in Jerusalem.
The apostles are told to stay in Jerusalem until
they are "endued with power from on high".
He then leads them out to a village named Bethany
and ascends to heaven from there.
They return to Jerusalem and are "continually
in the temple".

John 20
Jesus appears twice to his apostles, once in
Jerusalem. Then in Galilee at the sea of Tiberius.
No ascension to heaven is mentioned.

Acts 1.
He appears to his apostles in Jerusalem and is
there forty days. They are commanded not to
depart Jerusalem. At Mount Olivet, Jesus is
purported to have ascended to heaven, and the
apostles return to Jerusalem.

Basically, no two 'gospels' even come close
to agreeing with one another on 'facts' on what
is obviously one of the most momentous claims
ever made. Obviously the claims must therefore
be false. These are not claims of eyewitnesses,
apostles, no anybody with the faintest knowledge
of anything about any of this.

*********

Keith

*************************************************
Ludicrous Contradictions in the Gospels.
The Women at the tomb
**************************************************

Mark 16
Three women go to the tomb. The tomb stone
is rolled away and one "young man" is inside
is sitting on the "right side". The women
are fearful, flee the tomb and "tell no man",
"for they were afraid".

Mark 16:8
8: And they went out quickly, and fled from the
sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed:
neither said they any thing to any man; for they
were afraid.

Matthew 28.
Its two women and they find the tombstone in
place. An earthquake happens, an angel descends,
dramtically rolls the stone away and sits on it.
They meet Jesus and hug his feet.
He tells them to tell the apostles to meet him
in Galilee, which the apostles believe and in fact
do, believing the women.

9: And as they went to tell his disciples, behold,
Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and
held him by the feet, and worshipped him.
10: Then said Jesus unto them, Be not afraid: go tell
my brethren that they go into Galilee, and there shall
they see me.
....
16: Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee,
into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
17: And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but
some doubted.

Luke 21.
Its five or more women, and the tomb is open.
inside they find two men standing. They go
and tell eleven apostles who do not believe
them, thinking their story is an "idle tale".

Luke 24:9-11
9: and returning from the tomb they told all
this to the eleven and to all the rest.
10: Now it was Mary Magdalene and Jo-anna and
Mary the mother of James and the other women
with them who told this to the apostles;
11: but these words seemed to them an idle
tale, and they did not believe them.

John 20.
Only Mary Magdalene goes to the tomb. No other
women. She finds it open and tells two, not
eleven apostles. Who believe her and race each
other to be first to the tomb.
They leave and she goes back and then meets Jesus.
She is told not to touch him as he is not yet
ascended.


John 20:1-4
1: The first day of the week cometh Mary
Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto
the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken
away from the sepulchre. 2: Then she runneth,
and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other
disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto
them, They have taken away the Lord out of the
sepulchre, and we know not where they have
laid him.
3: Peter therefore went forth, and that other
disciple, and came to the sepulchre.
4: So they ran both together: and the other
disciple did outrun Peter, and came first
to the sepulchre.


In Luke, the later tale Peter then does go to
the tomb is not in early manuscripts. Its a
later addition, meant to somewhat harmonize
Luke and John.

Matthew has a ludicrous tale of soldiers bribed to
say they slept on duty and the disciples stole the
body. Since sleeping on duty was a capitol crime
for soldiers of that day, this is impossible, no
soldier was sign his own death warrant.

Soldiers are singularly lacking in Mark,
Luke and John. As are earthquakes and angels
rolling away stones and dramatically sitting
on them.

(End)









--

When I shake my killfile, I can hear them buzzing!

Cheerful Charlie

--

When I shake my killfile, I can hear them buzzing!

Cheerful Charlie