Admiral steers support for gays in military



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "stoney"
Date: 03 Mar 2005 09:42:08 PM
Object: Admiral steers support for gays in military
http://www.detnews.com/2005/editorial/0502/28/A09-102039.htm
Monday, February 28, 2005
Admiral steers support for gays in military
By Deb Price / The Detroit News
"Honest concern." That's the phrase retired Rear Admiral John Hutson
returns to again and again as he reflects back on why a dozen years
ago, as one of the Navy's top lawyers, he opposed allowing gays to
serve openly in the military.
"We really didn't know what would happen if we opened the ranks to
gays. We had visions of all the straight people simply leaving, that
the ranks would become depleted, that there would be a huge uprising,"
recalls Hutson, who in 1993 was the Navy's negotiator as the White
House, Congress and the Pentagon hammered out the Don't Ask, Don't
Tell law, allowing only closeted, celibate gays to serve.
"It wasn't just bigotry. It was an honest concern that we would be
seriously undermining our nation's ability to fight and win wars....
And people who may not have had a discriminatory bone in their bodies
were concerned about the discriminatory bones in other bodies," says
Hutson, who embraced Don't Ask as a "flawed compromise."
But the world has changed. And so has Hutson.
He's now among the leading heterosexual voices saying anti-gay
discrimination hurts the military. He wants Don't Ask repealed. And on
March 2, for the first time, legislation to do that will be introduced
by a bipartisan group of 25 lawmakers. Introduction of the Military
Readiness Enhancement Act coincides with key developments:
• Taxpayer abuse. The Government Accountability Office, the
investigative arm of Congress, concluded Feb. 25 that it has cost
taxpayers more than $191 million to replace the 10,000 service members
kicked out since 1993 for being gay. Those wasted tax dollars -- the
GAO notes its estimate is low because it doesn't, for example, account
for training replacement specialists -- could have purchased a dozen
Blackhawk helicopters or 800 sidewinder missiles. Among those booted
out were 322 language specialists, including 113 trained in Arabic,
Farsi (Iranian) and Korean. (See: www.gao.gov)
• Hypocrisy. Discharges of gay soldiers have fallen three years in a
row, with a 15 percent drop since fiscal 2003 and a 47 percent plunge
since the start of the war on terrorism, Pentagon figures released
Feb. 11 show. "The discharge numbers undermine the central rationale
for Don't Ask, Don't Tell because at the most critical time -- a time
of war -- they are kicking fewer gay servicemembers out," stresses C.
Dixon Osburn, director of Servicemembers Legal Defense Network
(sldn.org).
• Recruitment woes. In January, mirroring the difficulties of other
service branches, the Marines failed for the first time in a decade to
meet a recruitment goal.
• Allied advances. Five years ago, following the lead of other U.S.
allies, Britain lifted its ban on gays in uniform. That breakthrough
has been proven so successful that the Royal Navy announced Feb. 21
that it is working with a gay group to create a friendlier climate to
retain and attract more gay sailors.
To retired Admiral Hutson, the lesson is that the U.S. military needs
a midcourse correction. "If I thought that letting (open) gays in the
military now would degrade the mission," he says, "I wouldn't be for
it. The military mission is unique enough that it shouldn't be a
social laboratory. But we are at a point now where we can do it. And
once you can do it, that creates a moral imperative that means you
must do it."
Lifting the ban, he has come to believe, will strengthen military
readiness by enhancing unit cohesion. As for those service members
unable to control their anti-gay attitudes, Hutson adds: "I'd rather
have a good gay sailor take his or her place, and just get (the bad
apples) out and send them back to wherever they came from to work out
their problems. I don't want them in my Navy. That will make the
military better."
Think the military is losing valuable assets? That's an honest concern
-- and an excellent reason for lifting the gay ban. Do tell your
lawmakers.
You can reach Deb Price at (202) 906-8205 or dprice@detnews.com.
(c) 2005 The Detroit News
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.

User: "johac"

Title: Re: Admiral steers support for gays in military 04 Mar 2005 01:14:28 AM
In article <g6mf21hrngusqms86d5ddv25vf1ked9tvb@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

http://www.detnews.com/2005/editorial/0502/28/A09-102039.htm

Monday, February 28, 2005

Admiral steers support for gays in military

By Deb Price / The Detroit News

"Honest concern." That's the phrase retired Rear Admiral John Hutson
returns to again and again as he reflects back on why a dozen years
ago, as one of the Navy's top lawyers, he opposed allowing gays to
serve openly in the military.

"We really didn't know what would happen if we opened the ranks to
gays. We had visions of all the straight people simply leaving, that
the ranks would become depleted, that there would be a huge uprising,"
recalls Hutson, who in 1993 was the Navy's negotiator as the White
House, Congress and the Pentagon hammered out the Don't Ask, Don't
Tell law, allowing only closeted, celibate gays to serve.

"It wasn't just bigotry. It was an honest concern that we would be
seriously undermining our nation's ability to fight and win wars....
And people who may not have had a discriminatory bone in their bodies
were concerned about the discriminatory bones in other bodies," says
Hutson, who embraced Don't Ask as a "flawed compromise."

But the world has changed. And so has Hutson.

He's now among the leading heterosexual voices saying anti-gay
discrimination hurts the military. He wants Don't Ask repealed. And on
March 2, for the first time, legislation to do that will be introduced
by a bipartisan group of 25 lawmakers. Introduction of the Military
Readiness Enhancement Act coincides with key developments:

• Taxpayer abuse. The Government Accountability Office, the
investigative arm of Congress, concluded Feb. 25 that it has cost
taxpayers more than $191 million to replace the 10,000 service members
kicked out since 1993 for being gay. Those wasted tax dollars -- the
GAO notes its estimate is low because it doesn't, for example, account
for training replacement specialists -- could have purchased a dozen
Blackhawk helicopters or 800 sidewinder missiles. Among those booted
out were 322 language specialists, including 113 trained in Arabic,
Farsi (Iranian) and Korean. (See: www.gao.gov)

• Hypocrisy. Discharges of gay soldiers have fallen three years in a
row, with a 15 percent drop since fiscal 2003 and a 47 percent plunge
since the start of the war on terrorism, Pentagon figures released
Feb. 11 show. "The discharge numbers undermine the central rationale
for Don't Ask, Don't Tell because at the most critical time -- a time
of war -- they are kicking fewer gay servicemembers out," stresses C.
Dixon Osburn, director of Servicemembers Legal Defense Network
(sldn.org).

• Recruitment woes. In January, mirroring the difficulties of other
service branches, the Marines failed for the first time in a decade to
meet a recruitment goal.

• Allied advances. Five years ago, following the lead of other U.S.
allies, Britain lifted its ban on gays in uniform. That breakthrough
has been proven so successful that the Royal Navy announced Feb. 21
that it is working with a gay group to create a friendlier climate to
retain and attract more gay sailors.

To retired Admiral Hutson, the lesson is that the U.S. military needs
a midcourse correction. "If I thought that letting (open) gays in the
military now would degrade the mission," he says, "I wouldn't be for
it. The military mission is unique enough that it shouldn't be a
social laboratory. But we are at a point now where we can do it. And
once you can do it, that creates a moral imperative that means you
must do it."

Lifting the ban, he has come to believe, will strengthen military
readiness by enhancing unit cohesion. As for those service members
unable to control their anti-gay attitudes, Hutson adds: "I'd rather
have a good gay sailor take his or her place, and just get (the bad
apples) out and send them back to wherever they came from to work out
their problems. I don't want them in my Navy. That will make the
military better."

Think the military is losing valuable assets? That's an honest concern
-- and an excellent reason for lifting the gay ban. Do tell your
lawmakers.

You can reach Deb Price at (202) 906-8205 or dprice@detnews.com.

(c) 2005 The Detroit News

I don't think that it makes a damn bit of difference if a soldier is
straight or gay. The bullet comes out of the gun barrel just as fast
regardless of who pulls the trigger.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
Intelligent Design has as much to do with science as reality
television has to do with reality. - Barry Lynn on CNN 12/25/04
.
User: "stoney"

Title: Re: Admiral steers support for gays in military 07 Mar 2005 08:21:45 PM
On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 23:14:28 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <g6mf21hrngusqms86d5ddv25vf1ked9tvb@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

http://www.detnews.com/2005/editorial/0502/28/A09-102039.htm

Monday, February 28, 2005

Admiral steers support for gays in military

By Deb Price / The Detroit News

[]

To retired Admiral Hutson, the lesson is that the U.S. military needs
a midcourse correction. "If I thought that letting (open) gays in the
military now would degrade the mission," he says, "I wouldn't be for
it. The military mission is unique enough that it shouldn't be a
social laboratory. But we are at a point now where we can do it. And
once you can do it, that creates a moral imperative that means you
must do it."

Lifting the ban, he has come to believe, will strengthen military
readiness by enhancing unit cohesion. As for those service members
unable to control their anti-gay attitudes, Hutson adds: "I'd rather
have a good gay sailor take his or her place, and just get (the bad
apples) out and send them back to wherever they came from to work out
their problems. I don't want them in my Navy. That will make the
military better."

Think the military is losing valuable assets? That's an honest concern
-- and an excellent reason for lifting the gay ban. Do tell your
lawmakers.

You can reach Deb Price at (202) 906-8205 or dprice@detnews.com.

(c) 2005 The Detroit News


I don't think that it makes a damn bit of difference if a soldier is
straight or gay.

It doesn't.

The bullet comes out of the gun barrel just as fast
regardless of who pulls the trigger.

Repaired electronics works just as well.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.


User: ""

Title: Re: Admiral steers support for gays in military 03 Mar 2005 11:47:41 PM
stoney wrote:

http://www.detnews.com/2005/editorial/0502/28/A09-102039.htm

Monday, February 28, 2005

Admiral steers support for gays in military

"Ain't nothing in the army but steers and queers, and I
don't see any horns!" ^_^

"We really didn't know what would happen if we opened the ranks to
gays. We had visions of all the straight people simply leaving, that
the ranks would become depleted, that there would be a huge

uprising,"

recalls Hutson, who in 1993 was the Navy's negotiator as the White
House, Congress and the Pentagon hammered out the Don't Ask, Don't
Tell law, allowing only closeted, celibate gays to serve.

http://whatevermary.com/f/gayarmy.htm

[Hutson] is now among the leading heterosexual voices saying anti-gay
discrimination hurts the military. He wants Don't Ask repealed. And

on

March 2, for the first time, legislation to do that will be

introduced

by a bipartisan group of 25 lawmakers. Introduction of the Military
Readiness Enhancement Act coincides with key developments:

That sounds nice, but to paraphrase the Barry McGuire song
"Eve of Destruction":
"You're old enough to kill, but not for marrying."
Go ahead and legalize gays in the military, but unless the
right to marry (no pun intended) goes hand in hand with it,
forget about getting anyone to sign on.

=B7 Taxpayer abuse. The Government Accountability Office, the
investigative arm of Congress, concluded Feb. 25 that it has cost
taxpayers more than $191 million to replace the 10,000 service

members

kicked out since 1993 for being gay.

<snip>

Among those booted out were 322 language specialists, including 113
trained in Arabic, Farsi (Iranian) and Korean. (See: www.gao.gov)

Although some gays did spy for the communists, gays would
be unlikely to spy for the muslims.

=B7 Hypocrisy. Discharges of gay soldiers have fallen three years in

a

row, with a 15 percent drop since fiscal 2003 and a 47 percent plunge
since the start of the war on terrorism, Pentagon figures released
Feb. 11 show. "The discharge numbers undermine the central rationale
for Don't Ask, Don't Tell because at the most critical time -- a time
of war -- they are kicking fewer gay servicemembers out," stresses C.
Dixon Osburn, director of Servicemembers Legal Defense Network
(sldn.org).

That happened with US female soldiers during World War II.
They wanted to dump the lesbians until they realized they
couldn't function without the secretarial pools.

=B7 Allied advances. Five years ago, following the lead of other U.S.
allies, Britain lifted its ban on gays in uniform. That breakthrough
has been proven so successful that the Royal Navy announced Feb. 21
that it is working with a gay group to create a friendlier climate to
retain and attract more gay sailors.

So much for "old Europe". Some mainland Europe nations have
had openly gay soldiers for nearly 20 years.

To retired Admiral Hutson, the lesson is that the U.S. military needs
a midcourse correction. "If I thought that letting (open) gays in the
military now would degrade the mission," he says, "I wouldn't be for
it. The military mission is unique enough that it shouldn't be a
social laboratory. But we are at a point now where we can do it. And
once you can do it, that creates a moral imperative that means you
must do it."

Much like when blacks were finally allowed to serve with
whites in integrated units, n'est-ce pas?
Bob Dog
.
User: "stoney"

Title: Re: Admiral steers support for gays in military 07 Mar 2005 08:20:22 PM
On 3 Mar 2005 21:47:41 -0800,
wrote:

stoney wrote:

http://www.detnews.com/2005/editorial/0502/28/A09-102039.htm

Monday, February 28, 2005

Admiral steers support for gays in military


"Ain't nothing in the army but steers and queers, and I
don't see any horns!" ^_^


"We really didn't know what would happen if we opened the ranks to
gays. We had visions of all the straight people simply leaving, that
the ranks would become depleted, that there would be a huge

uprising,"

recalls Hutson, who in 1993 was the Navy's negotiator as the White
House, Congress and the Pentagon hammered out the Don't Ask, Don't
Tell law, allowing only closeted, celibate gays to serve.


http://whatevermary.com/f/gayarmy.htm


[Hutson] is now among the leading heterosexual voices saying anti-gay
discrimination hurts the military. He wants Don't Ask repealed. And

on

March 2, for the first time, legislation to do that will be

introduced

by a bipartisan group of 25 lawmakers. Introduction of the Military
Readiness Enhancement Act coincides with key developments:


That sounds nice, but to paraphrase the Barry McGuire song
"Eve of Destruction":

"You're old enough to kill, but not for marrying."

Go ahead and legalize gays in the military, but unless the
right to marry (no pun intended) goes hand in hand with it,
forget about getting anyone to sign on.

Hopefully.

· Taxpayer abuse. The Government Accountability Office, the
investigative arm of Congress, concluded Feb. 25 that it has cost
taxpayers more than $191 million to replace the 10,000 service

members

kicked out since 1993 for being gay.

<snip>

Among those booted out were 322 language specialists, including 113
trained in Arabic, Farsi (Iranian) and Korean. (See: www.gao.gov)


Although some gays did spy for the communists, gays would
be unlikely to spy for the muslims.

/cue the heterosexual Walker family spy ring as well as many other het
spies.

· Hypocrisy. Discharges of gay soldiers have fallen three years in

a

row, with a 15 percent drop since fiscal 2003 and a 47 percent plunge
since the start of the war on terrorism, Pentagon figures released
Feb. 11 show. "The discharge numbers undermine the central rationale
for Don't Ask, Don't Tell because at the most critical time -- a time
of war -- they are kicking fewer gay servicemembers out," stresses C.
Dixon Osburn, director of Servicemembers Legal Defense Network
(sldn.org).


That happened with US female soldiers during World War II.
They wanted to dump the lesbians until they realized they
couldn't function without the secretarial pools.

Yes.

· Allied advances. Five years ago, following the lead of other U.S.
allies, Britain lifted its ban on gays in uniform. That breakthrough
has been proven so successful that the Royal Navy announced Feb. 21
that it is working with a gay group to create a friendlier climate to
retain and attract more gay sailors.


So much for "old Europe". Some mainland Europe nations have
had openly gay soldiers for nearly 20 years.

And women in combat slots for over 30 years.

To retired Admiral Hutson, the lesson is that the U.S. military needs
a midcourse correction. "If I thought that letting (open) gays in the
military now would degrade the mission," he says, "I wouldn't be for
it. The military mission is unique enough that it shouldn't be a
social laboratory. But we are at a point now where we can do it. And
once you can do it, that creates a moral imperative that means you
must do it."


Much like when blacks were finally allowed to serve with
whites in integrated units, n'est-ce pas?

Exactly.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.



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