| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Tervingi" |
| Date: |
28 Apr 2006 04:13:33 AM |
| Object: |
Advice from others like me |
I went through my whole Gordian knot internal episode a while back. I
would have been content to say bah humbug, God just works in such
mysterious ways, until I realized I might be fighting the brainwashing
Dawkins described in the Virus of Faith, since I was adopted and didn't
learn about God and Santa Claus until I was 5, at which point I
suspected they both were hoaxes.
The point is, my entire family is filled with Evangelical preachers.
Old Time Missionary Baptist Evangelical Preachers. Every male.
I was just hoping for some advice or something. I am still living at
home right now, and feel like I am hiding or something because I can't
tell the truth when they are always talking about church and stuff.
I was talking to this woman at work about theological type things, and
she said oh, don't say that you're an atheist, they scare me.
Anyway, I was just hoping for some advice from personal experience on
whether such a family could ever forgive you once the cats out of the
bag, or really I pretty much just had to tell it to the world that I've
been healed.
Anyway. Thanks.
--
"Land of the free indeed. We've become a nation of ***** whipped
corporate whores."
- Rick 2003-11-19, 10:59 comp.graphics.apps.photoshop
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| User: "Dan Luke" |
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| Title: Re: Advice from others like me |
28 Apr 2006 06:29:09 AM |
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"Tervingi" wrote:
I was talking to this woman at work about theological type things, and
she said oh, don't say that you're an atheist, they scare me.
Why should you bear the weight of your relatives' delusions in secret? You
are living a life of deception if you do this; it can't be good for your
mental health.
Speak the truth and you may be surprised at the allies you find.
--
Dan
"Atheism is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby."
--The Amazing Randi
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| User: "Rev. Prunefinger" |
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| Title: Re: Advice from others like me |
28 Apr 2006 09:55:24 AM |
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"Dan Luke" <c172rg@dingdongsouth.net> wrote in message
news:1253v4392m0shb0@news.supernews.com...
:
: "Tervingi" wrote:
:
: > I was talking to this woman at work about theological type things,
and
: > she said oh, don't say that you're an atheist, they scare me.
:
: Why should you bear the weight of your relatives' delusions in
secret? You
: are living a life of deception if you do this; it can't be good for
your
: mental health.
Open warfare is much worse.
: Speak the truth and you may be surprised at the allies you find.
True enough, but throwing all your cards on the table may not always
be the best way to discover them.
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| User: "CreateThis" |
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| Title: Re: Advice from others like me |
28 Apr 2006 07:49:11 AM |
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Dan Luke wrote:
"Tervingi" wrote:
I was talking to this woman at work about theological type things, and
she said oh, don't say that you're an atheist, they scare me.
Why should you bear the weight of your relatives' delusions in secret? You
are living a life of deception if you do this; it can't be good for your
mental health.
Speak the truth and you may be surprised at the allies you find.
Not until you have an alternative. If you speak the truth before you
can leave home, you might find yourself stuck in an environment of
increasing pressure.
In any event *don't* expect fundamentalist believers to be tolerant of
your choice. Any tolerance on their part will be tantamount to
abandoning their lifelong convictions.
CT
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| User: "leo" |
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| Title: Re: Advice from others like me |
28 Apr 2006 04:22:32 PM |
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the best way is to keep our mouths shut, if your parents are fundies.
You had to prepare yourself to live indenpendently, save some money,
and fled the country. Once out, you do not phone or write them any
more. ***** them all.
Leopoldo
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Advice from others like me |
01 May 2006 05:57:10 PM |
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On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 06:29:09 -0500, "Dan Luke"
<c172rg@dingdongsouth.net> wrote in alt.atheism
"Tervingi" wrote:
I was talking to this woman at work about theological type things, and
she said oh, don't say that you're an atheist, they scare me.
Why should you bear the weight of your relatives' delusions in secret? You
are living a life of deception if you do this; it can't be good for your
mental health.
Speak the truth and you may be surprised at the allies you find.
More than likely he'll find himself out on the street if not in the
hospital.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "Sam" |
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| Title: Re: Advice from others like me |
28 Apr 2006 11:26:33 AM |
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"Tervingi" <Tervingi@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZPidnZju48VdQczZRVn-pw@comcast.com...
I went through my whole Gordian knot internal episode a while back. I
would have been content to say bah humbug, God just works in such
mysterious ways, until I realized I might be fighting the brainwashing
Dawkins described in the Virus of Faith, since I was adopted and didn't
learn about God and Santa Claus until I was 5, at which point I
suspected they both were hoaxes.
The point is, my entire family is filled with Evangelical preachers.
Old Time Missionary Baptist Evangelical Preachers. Every male.
I was just hoping for some advice or something. I am still living at
home right now, and feel like I am hiding or something because I can't
tell the truth when they are always talking about church and stuff.
I was talking to this woman at work about theological type things, and
she said oh, don't say that you're an atheist, they scare me.
Anyway, I was just hoping for some advice from personal experience on
whether such a family could ever forgive you once the cats out of the
bag, or really I pretty much just had to tell it to the world that I've
been healed.
Anyway. Thanks.
--
"Land of the free indeed. We've become a nation of ***** whipped
corporate whores."
- Rick 2003-11-19, 10:59 comp.graphics.apps.photoshop
Shedding faith is a long journey as you seem to know. Given that it gets
ingrained into our brains from early on, it's not an overnight process to
undo. The farther along you get, the further away your point of views
become from someone who's never started.
Once you loose all fear of having doubt in the first place, and realize all
religion is contrived by man, it no doubt gives you a compltely different
perspective on all of life. One that anyone still in the trenches of their
theistic beliefs can't even begin to comprehend.
You'll find that there is very little common ground for debate because as
proof, theists often use things equivilent to debating what Santa Claus has
for breakfast in the morning. It's a moot point once you know the entire
foundation the premise is based on doesn't exist.
As you've seen, it becomes a very polar issue, with a lot of ground to cross
in the middle. It becomes so complex it's not somthing you can even cover
in a single debate.
So what you have to realize, is even though your beliefs are completely
different, you still have to get along with others in the world, and the
fact is you are in the minority. You may feel like you want to just walk
around slapping people and screaming "WAKE UP!" at them, but that won't do
you any good.
That leaves you at the point where you just have to smile and nod, and if
you want, politly probe someones point of view before trying to start a
conversation, and be able to realize when it's a good idea and when it's
not.
Family can be the stickest situation of all. My brother and I are both
"non-theists" and for the longest time kept quite about it. We were luck
though because when they tried to get us to go to chuch long after we had
moved out and stopped going, there was never a big conversation, but I
decided for myself I wasn't going to pretend in front of people anymore and
we made our beliefs clear. Surprisingly they didn't turn it into a
challenge, but I still get regular emails from my mom about touchy-feely
stories of faith and such. I'm perfectly willing to discuss my point of
view with them if they ever wanted, but they never have.
As long as you live under their roof, you will be better off finding a way
to keep things civil, even if that means avoiding the situation as much as
possible. If you want to talk about it with them you'll be better off doing
so after you can get some distance. Just make sure you are prepared to face
whatever you think their reaction may be.
If you want a further understanding of the roots of the whole matter as far
as the Abrahamic monotheistic faiths go, just read up on near
east/mesopotamian history and the rise of ancient Israel, their ancient
religion, what infuluenced it, and how it developed into the faiths of
today. You will find it all very interesting and realize just how pointless
arguing something like whether or not the Exodus took place or trying to
attribute natural events to literary plagues really is. Just watch out for
anything written/published by seminary colleges as you will undoubtedly get
their spin on history. (Or read it anyway and compare and decide for
yourself which makes more sense to you.)4 There are some excellent reading
lists by individuals on amazon that cover the subject well. I'll post some
links if you are interested.
.
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| User: "skyeyes" |
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| Title: Re: Advice from others like me |
28 Apr 2006 12:32:30 PM |
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Sam wrote:
<Snip>
If you want a further understanding of the roots of the whole matter as far
as the Abrahamic monotheistic faiths go, just read up on near
east/mesopotamian history and the rise of ancient Israel, their ancient
religion, what infuluenced it, and how it developed into the faiths of
today. You will find it all very interesting and realize just how pointless
arguing something like whether or not the Exodus took place or trying to
attribute natural events to literary plagues really is. Just watch out for
anything written/published by seminary colleges as you will undoubtedly get
their spin on history. (Or read it anyway and compare and decide for
yourself which makes more sense to you.)4 There are some excellent reading
lists by individuals on amazon that cover the subject well. I'll post some
links if you are interested.
I recommend Joseph Campbell's _The Masks of God_ series, particularly
books 2 (eastern religions) and 3 (western religions).
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Advice from others like me |
28 Apr 2006 01:46:43 PM |
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Sam wrote:
Family can be the stickest situation of all. My brother and I are both
"non-theists" and for the longest time kept quite about it. We were luck
though because when they tried to get us to go to chuch long after we had
moved out and stopped going, there was never a big conversation, but I
decided for myself I wasn't going to pretend in front of people anymore and
we made our beliefs clear. Surprisingly they didn't turn it into a
challenge, but I still get regular emails from my mom about touchy-feely
stories of faith and such. I'm perfectly willing to discuss my point of
view with them if they ever wanted, but they never have.
My brother and I had one of those people as a neighbor. We never knew
how religious she was until my brother told her he was an atheist. She
would write letters to his wife, urging her to help get my brother "back
to god". He intercepted one once, and shot back a 12-page letter
informing her of why he is not a Christian, and ordering her to leave
his family alone. Apparently she took it very personally. Too bad, eh?
Sometimes you have to weed the garden.
--
Uncle Vic
aa#2011
Member, Earthquack's 666 club
Supervisor, EAC department of little adhesive-backed shiny plastic
L-shaped doo-dads to add feet to Jesus Fish department
It is safe to say that the bible contains equal amounts of fact, history
and pizza.
-Penn Jillette
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| User: "Tervingi" |
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| Title: Re: Advice from others like me |
28 Apr 2006 12:21:30 PM |
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Sam wrote:
"Tervingi" <Tervingi@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZPidnZju48VdQczZRVn-pw@comcast.com...
I went through my whole Gordian knot internal episode a while back. I
would have been content to say bah humbug, God just works in such
mysterious ways, until I realized I might be fighting the brainwashing
Dawkins described in the Virus of Faith, since I was adopted and didn't
learn about God and Santa Claus until I was 5, at which point I
suspected they both were hoaxes.
The point is, my entire family is filled with Evangelical preachers.
Old Time Missionary Baptist Evangelical Preachers. Every male.
I was just hoping for some advice or something. I am still living at
home right now, and feel like I am hiding or something because I can't
tell the truth when they are always talking about church and stuff.
I was talking to this woman at work about theological type things, and
she said oh, don't say that you're an atheist, they scare me.
Anyway, I was just hoping for some advice from personal experience on
whether such a family could ever forgive you once the cats out of the
bag, or really I pretty much just had to tell it to the world that I've
been healed.
Anyway. Thanks.
--
"Land of the free indeed. We've become a nation of ***** whipped
corporate whores."
- Rick 2003-11-19, 10:59 comp.graphics.apps.photoshop
Shedding faith is a long journey as you seem to know. Given that it gets
ingrained into our brains from early on, it's not an overnight process to
undo. The farther along you get, the further away your point of views
become from someone who's never started.
Once you loose all fear of having doubt in the first place, and realize all
religion is contrived by man, it no doubt gives you a compltely different
perspective on all of life. One that anyone still in the trenches of their
theistic beliefs can't even begin to comprehend.
You'll find that there is very little common ground for debate because as
proof, theists often use things equivilent to debating what Santa Claus has
for breakfast in the morning. It's a moot point once you know the entire
foundation the premise is based on doesn't exist.
As you've seen, it becomes a very polar issue, with a lot of ground to cross
in the middle. It becomes so complex it's not somthing you can even cover
in a single debate.
So what you have to realize, is even though your beliefs are completely
different, you still have to get along with others in the world, and the
fact is you are in the minority. You may feel like you want to just walk
around slapping people and screaming "WAKE UP!" at them, but that won't do
you any good.
That leaves you at the point where you just have to smile and nod, and if
you want, politly probe someones point of view before trying to start a
conversation, and be able to realize when it's a good idea and when it's
not.
Family can be the stickest situation of all. My brother and I are both
"non-theists" and for the longest time kept quite about it. We were luck
though because when they tried to get us to go to chuch long after we had
moved out and stopped going, there was never a big conversation, but I
decided for myself I wasn't going to pretend in front of people anymore and
we made our beliefs clear. Surprisingly they didn't turn it into a
challenge, but I still get regular emails from my mom about touchy-feely
stories of faith and such. I'm perfectly willing to discuss my point of
view with them if they ever wanted, but they never have.
As long as you live under their roof, you will be better off finding a way
to keep things civil, even if that means avoiding the situation as much as
possible. If you want to talk about it with them you'll be better off doing
so after you can get some distance. Just make sure you are prepared to face
whatever you think their reaction may be.
If you want a further understanding of the roots of the whole matter as far
as the Abrahamic monotheistic faiths go, just read up on near
east/mesopotamian history and the rise of ancient Israel, their ancient
religion, what infuluenced it, and how it developed into the faiths of
today. You will find it all very interesting and realize just how pointless
arguing something like whether or not the Exodus took place or trying to
attribute natural events to literary plagues really is. Just watch out for
anything written/published by seminary colleges as you will undoubtedly get
their spin on history. (Or read it anyway and compare and decide for
yourself which makes more sense to you.)4 There are some excellent reading
lists by individuals on amazon that cover the subject well. I'll post some
links if you are interested.
I would appreciate them. Thank you.
--
"Land of the free indeed. We've become a nation of ***** whipped
corporate whores."
- Rick 2003-11-19, 10:59 comp.graphics.apps.photoshop
.
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| User: "Sam" |
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| Title: Re: Advice from others like me |
28 Apr 2006 01:27:43 PM |
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Here you go. Well worth the investment of your time.
A good starter list to get a feel for what is out there...
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/guides/guide-display/-/2BVKM3PZBTVAC/ref=3/102-3480607-8515301
I'd recommend starting with...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060630353/ref=cm_bg_f_1/102-3480607-8515301?v=glance&n=283155
or
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0965504794/ref=wl_it_dp/102-3480607-8515301?%5Fencoding=UTF8&colid=1Z3XXR93SNN7Y&coliid=I39BQTW1XET1CZ&v=glance&n=283155
(although the title is somewhat misleading)
For some pure history on the world in which the bible came to be...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0631225528/ref=wl_it_dp/102-3480607-8515301?%5Fencoding=UTF8&colid=1Z3XXR93SNN7Y&coliid=I2LLJ0TRIIGTUW&v=glance&n=283155
and it's associated early religions...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0226067173/ref=wl_it_dp/102-3480607-8515301?%5Fencoding=UTF8&colid=1Z3XXR93SNN7Y&coliid=IDIQY4YOK5PN&v=glance&n=283155
or
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0192835890/ref=pd_sim_b_3/102-3480607-8515301?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=283155
or
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0292707940/ref=pd_bxgy_img_b/102-3480607-8515301?%5Fencoding=UTF8
Long, but it covers the historical context of the bible itself which makes
also makes it a good overview and puts it into perspective.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0195139372/qid=1146246404/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-3480607-8515301?s=books&v=glance&n=283155
Books by Denver and Finkelstein are good for early "proto-Israel" (1400-1000
BCE), but they see some of the details differently and are sometimes
critical of each other.
The books by Frank Moore Cross and Mark Smith are scholary and dry, but
contain excellent and in-depth information on the relationships between
early Israelite religion and it's backgrounds from other mesopotamian
religions.
Miller's "The Religion of Ancient Israel" is referenced in lots that I've
read, but I haven't gotten to it yet. May be a good alternative to Cross
and Smith, at least as a starter.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0664221459/ref=wl_it_dp/102-3480607-8515301?%5Fencoding=UTF8&colid=1Z3XXR93SNN7Y&coliid=I1IUQ9ZV0VWCHB&v=glance&n=283155
Good review of the numerous versions of the bible itself in various
languages.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0801022827/ref=wl_it_dp/102-3480607-8515301?%5Fencoding=UTF8&coliid=INZX6P8YTL73V&v=glance&colid=1Z3XXR93SNN7Y
I found
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060526556/ref=cm_bg_f_2/102-3480607-8515301?v=glance&n=283155
informative, but it put me to sleep.
This may be a little better (looking at the reviews) and is next on my list.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0300084579/qid=1146246767/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/102-3480607-8515301?s=books&v=glance&n=283155
Karen Armstrong provides an historial overview concerning religion and its
place in history. Full of topics and references that might give you ideas
as to what you may also like to read about.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345384563/ref=cm_bg_d/102-3480607-8515301?v=glance&n=283155
Pricey, but looks intresting. Actually a textbook. Also on my wishlist.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0195139119/ref=wl_it_dp/102-3480607-8515301?%5Fencoding=UTF8&coliid=IUFK9PUTAHZOT&v=glance&colid=1Z3XXR93SNN7Y
Not exactly achedemic or scholary, but Ingersoll's book written over 100
years ago is a classic. A very enjoyable and brief commentary that will have
you laughing in parts.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0879753617/qid=1146245795/sr=12-1/102-3480607-8515301?s=books&v=glance&n=283155
On rational thinking, Demon Haunted World is a must read.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/sr=8-1/qid=1146247095/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-3480607-8515301?%5Fencoding=UTF8
As a tip, if you order more than $25 at a time from amazon you can get free
shipping on most things.
Enjoy.
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| User: "Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" |
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| Title: Re: Advice from others like me |
28 Apr 2006 11:24:05 AM |
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"Tervingi" <Tervingi@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZPidnZju48VdQczZRVn-pw@comcast.com...
I went through my whole Gordian knot internal episode a while back. I
would have been content to say bah humbug, God just works in such
mysterious ways, until I realized I might be fighting the brainwashing
Dawkins described in the Virus of Faith, since I was adopted and didn't
learn about God and Santa Claus until I was 5, at which point I
suspected they both were hoaxes.
The point is, my entire family is filled with Evangelical preachers.
Old Time Missionary Baptist Evangelical Preachers. Every male.
I was just hoping for some advice or something. I am still living at
home right now, and feel like I am hiding or something because I can't
tell the truth when they are always talking about church and stuff.
I was talking to this woman at work about theological type things, and
she said oh, don't say that you're an atheist, they scare me.
Anyway, I was just hoping for some advice from personal experience on
whether such a family could ever forgive you once the cats out of the
bag, or really I pretty much just had to tell it to the world that I've
been healed.
Congratulations on your triumph of reason.
Your family will never accept or forgive you.
To them their religion is the highest absolute truth
and the ostensible center of their life. They are not going
to accept you saying it is false.
Diplomacy, inscrutability, and politcal stealth are valuable and
necessary life skills. You will need them over
and over. Every individual has agendas and personal
desires. Conflicts between those desires are inevitable.
Side-stepping conflict is almost always the wisest thing.
My father was very religious but not a preacher.
A few years before he died he said, "I'm only going
to say this once but I think you should think about
being right with God". I said, "OK". :) I thought to
myself, I hope he true to his word, 'once'.
And he didn't bring it up again... for two years.
Toward the end he seemed to be concerned
about my soul. On one car trip he challenged me on
it. I told him that God's message didn't make it
to me. That the messengers God sent were feeble
and inadequate. I said that, except for believing,
my life is in accord with the "10 commandments".
I said that if God is just he will be satisfied by that.
That seemed to mollify my father. Unfortunately
he wasn't with us much longer.
--
rb #2187
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Advice from others like me |
28 Apr 2006 04:44:42 AM |
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On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 04:13:33 -0500, Tervingi <Tervingi@gmail.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <ZPidnZju48VdQczZRVn-pw@comcast.com>
I went through my whole Gordian knot internal episode a while back. I
would have been content to say bah humbug, God just works in such
mysterious ways, until I realized I might be fighting the brainwashing
Dawkins described in the Virus of Faith, since I was adopted and didn't
learn about God and Santa Claus until I was 5, at which point I
suspected they both were hoaxes.
The point is, my entire family is filled with Evangelical preachers.
Old Time Missionary Baptist Evangelical Preachers. Every male.
I was just hoping for some advice or something. I am still living at
home right now, and feel like I am hiding or something because I can't
tell the truth when they are always talking about church and stuff.
I was talking to this woman at work about theological type things, and
she said oh, don't say that you're an atheist, they scare me.
Anyway, I was just hoping for some advice from personal experience on
whether such a family could ever forgive you once the cats out of the
bag, or really I pretty much just had to tell it to the world that I've
been healed.
Anyway. Thanks.
--
"Land of the free indeed. We've become a nation of ***** whipped
corporate whores."
Your sig tells you all that you need to know.
External supporting comments are superfluous.
--
Michael Gray.
Founding Member and Doorman,
Earthquack's 666 Club.
EAC Trainee Inquisitor.
Pluritalis non est ponenda sine necessitate
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| User: "Rev. Prunefinger" |
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| Title: Re: Advice from others like me |
28 Apr 2006 09:51:20 AM |
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"Michael Gray" <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in message
news:3uo352101ro23avp21mnem8v2hvnlolcb8@4ax.com...
: On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 04:13:33 -0500, Tervingi <Tervingi@gmail.com>
: wrote:
: - Refer: <ZPidnZju48VdQczZRVn-pw@comcast.com>
: >I went through my whole Gordian knot internal episode a while back.
I
: >would have been content to say bah humbug, God just works in such
: >mysterious ways, until I realized I might be fighting the
brainwashing
: >Dawkins described in the Virus of Faith, since I was adopted and
didn't
: >learn about God and Santa Claus until I was 5, at which point I
: >suspected they both were hoaxes.
I'm guessing that you are at least fairly intelligent, which is a
shame, since your adoptive family's superstition will more than likely
bring you unhappiness for the rest of your life. If you'd been
stupid, you could have lived out your life in blissful ignorance.
Odds are, you'll find yourself weeding out your brain for many years,
but as long as you are equipped with the right mental tools, you
should be fine. If you haven't already, study critical thinking &
logic. Learn the history of xianity (the real one, not the one they
want you to believe), it's a real eye-opener.
: >The point is, my entire family is filled with Evangelical
preachers.
: >Old Time Missionary Baptist Evangelical Preachers. Every male.
Grim.
: >I was just hoping for some advice or something. I am still living
at
: >home right now, and feel like I am hiding or something because I
can't
: >tell the truth when they are always talking about church and stuff.
: >
: >I was talking to this woman at work about theological type things,
and
: >she said oh, don't say that you're an atheist, they scare me.
Personally, I'd have commented on how incredibly insulting that is.
After all, even if the concept _does_ frighten her, it doesn't give
her leave to be nasty.
: >Anyway, I was just hoping for some advice from personal experience
on
: >whether such a family could ever forgive you once the cats out of
the
: >bag, or really I pretty much just had to tell it to the world that
I've
: >been healed.
Hmmmm...healed....you still have a little ways to go, I think. The
fact that you haven't gotten up the nerve to let your family know how
you feel is evidence of that. Basically, you're asking strangers a
question that only someone who knows your family can answer.
: >Anyway. Thanks.
: >--
: >"Land of the free indeed. We've become a nation of ***** whipped
: >corporate whores."
:
: Your sig tells you all that you need to know.
: External supporting comments are superfluous.
That would be nice, if it were true. No man is an island. Humans are
a social animal. Companionship of even the most deluded theist is
preferable to isolation. This guy is asking for advice, and what
you're telling him isn't terribly helpful.
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Advice from others like me |
01 May 2006 05:55:22 PM |
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On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 14:51:20 GMT, "Rev. Prunefinger"
<misleart@ameritech.net> wrote in alt.atheism
"Michael Gray" <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in message
news:3uo352101ro23avp21mnem8v2hvnlolcb8@4ax.com...
: On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 04:13:33 -0500, Tervingi <Tervingi@gmail.com>
: wrote:
: - Refer: <ZPidnZju48VdQczZRVn-pw@comcast.com>
: >I went through my whole Gordian knot internal episode a while back.
I
: >would have been content to say bah humbug, God just works in such
: >mysterious ways, until I realized I might be fighting the
brainwashing
: >Dawkins described in the Virus of Faith, since I was adopted and
didn't
: >learn about God and Santa Claus until I was 5, at which point I
: >suspected they both were hoaxes.
I'm guessing that you are at least fairly intelligent, which is a
shame, since your adoptive family's superstition will more than likely
bring you unhappiness for the rest of your life. If you'd been
stupid, you could have lived out your life in blissful ignorance.
Odds are, you'll find yourself weeding out your brain for many years,
but as long as you are equipped with the right mental tools, you
should be fine.
Yeah, and it's a royal ******!* It's much worse when the only tool
available was your own resources.
[]
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Advice from others like me |
28 Apr 2006 09:32:10 PM |
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On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 14:51:20 GMT, "Rev. Prunefinger"
<misleart@ameritech.net> wrote:
- Refer: <IZp4g.21485$tN3.16286@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
"Michael Gray" <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in message
news:3uo352101ro23avp21mnem8v2hvnlolcb8@4ax.com...
: On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 04:13:33 -0500, Tervingi <Tervingi@gmail.com>
: wrote:
: - Refer: <ZPidnZju48VdQczZRVn-pw@comcast.com>
: >I went through my whole Gordian knot internal episode a while back.
I
: >would have been content to say bah humbug, God just works in such
: >mysterious ways, until I realized I might be fighting the
brainwashing
: >Dawkins described in the Virus of Faith, since I was adopted and
didn't
: >learn about God and Santa Claus until I was 5, at which point I
: >suspected they both were hoaxes.
I'm guessing that you are at least fairly intelligent, which is a
shame, since your adoptive family's superstition will more than likely
bring you unhappiness for the rest of your life. If you'd been
stupid, you could have lived out your life in blissful ignorance.
Odds are, you'll find yourself weeding out your brain for many years,
but as long as you are equipped with the right mental tools, you
should be fine. If you haven't already, study critical thinking &
logic. Learn the history of xianity (the real one, not the one they
want you to believe), it's a real eye-opener.
: >The point is, my entire family is filled with Evangelical
preachers.
: >Old Time Missionary Baptist Evangelical Preachers. Every male.
Grim.
: >I was just hoping for some advice or something. I am still living
at
: >home right now, and feel like I am hiding or something because I
can't
: >tell the truth when they are always talking about church and stuff.
: >
: >I was talking to this woman at work about theological type things,
and
: >she said oh, don't say that you're an atheist, they scare me.
Personally, I'd have commented on how incredibly insulting that is.
After all, even if the concept _does_ frighten her, it doesn't give
her leave to be nasty.
: >Anyway, I was just hoping for some advice from personal experience
on
: >whether such a family could ever forgive you once the cats out of
the
: >bag, or really I pretty much just had to tell it to the world that
I've
: >been healed.
Hmmmm...healed....you still have a little ways to go, I think. The
fact that you haven't gotten up the nerve to let your family know how
you feel is evidence of that. Basically, you're asking strangers a
question that only someone who knows your family can answer.
: >Anyway. Thanks.
: >--
: >"Land of the free indeed. We've become a nation of ***** whipped
: >corporate whores."
:
: Your sig tells you all that you need to know.
: External supporting comments are superfluous.
That would be nice, if it were true. No man is an island. Humans are
a social animal. Companionship of even the most deluded theist is
preferable to isolation.
That is merely your opinion, and does not apply to me.
This guy is asking for advice, and what
you're telling him isn't terribly helpful.
More of your personal opinion.
That is not terribly helpful.
--
Michael Gray.
Founding Member and Doorman,
Earthquack's 666 Club.
EAC Trainee Inquisitor.
Pluritalis non est ponenda sine necessitate
.
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| User: "Paul Erickson" |
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| Title: Re: Advice from others like me |
01 May 2006 08:59:52 PM |
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On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 12:02:10 +0930, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:
On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 14:51:20 GMT, "Rev. Prunefinger"
<misleart@ameritech.net> wrote:
- Refer: <IZp4g.21485$tN3.16286@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
"Michael Gray" <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in message
news:3uo352101ro23avp21mnem8v2hvnlolcb8@4ax.com...
: On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 04:13:33 -0500, Tervingi <Tervingi@gmail.com>
: wrote:
: - Refer: <ZPidnZju48VdQczZRVn-pw@comcast.com>
: >I went through my whole Gordian knot internal episode a while back.
I
: >would have been content to say bah humbug, God just works in such
: >mysterious ways, until I realized I might be fighting the
brainwashing
: >Dawkins described in the Virus of Faith, since I was adopted and
didn't
: >learn about God and Santa Claus until I was 5, at which point I
: >suspected they both were hoaxes.
Piggybacking, since I didn't see the original post.
Is there anybody in your family you are particularly close to --
someone you trust? Or even a friend you trust who knows your family
well? If all the males are preachers, then what about a female,
particularly one close to your age?
I think you should take these questions to a person like that, instead
of a bunch of strangers who feel strongly enough about atheism that
they post to alt.atheism.
If you're going to come out, and think you might get very negative
reactions, maybe you should try it first on somebody you trust and
believe in.
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Advice from others like me |
02 May 2006 11:47:14 PM |
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On Mon, 01 May 2006 20:59:52 -0500, Paul Erickson
<prerickson@houston.rr.com> wrote:
- Refer: <2red52pcddges5ldpk3e0ke2d7vrmg9e7k@4ax.com>
On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 12:02:10 +0930, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:
On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 14:51:20 GMT, "Rev. Prunefinger"
<misleart@ameritech.net> wrote:
- Refer: <IZp4g.21485$tN3.16286@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
"Michael Gray" <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in message
news:3uo352101ro23avp21mnem8v2hvnlolcb8@4ax.com...
: On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 04:13:33 -0500, Tervingi <Tervingi@gmail.com>
: wrote:
: - Refer: <ZPidnZju48VdQczZRVn-pw@comcast.com>
: >I went through my whole Gordian knot internal episode a while back.
I
: >would have been content to say bah humbug, God just works in such
: >mysterious ways, until I realized I might be fighting the
brainwashing
: >Dawkins described in the Virus of Faith, since I was adopted and
didn't
: >learn about God and Santa Claus until I was 5, at which point I
: >suspected they both were hoaxes.
Piggybacking, since I didn't see the original post.
Is there anybody in your family you are particularly close to --
someone you trust? Or even a friend you trust who knows your family
well? If all the males are preachers, then what about a female,
particularly one close to your age?
I think you should take these questions to a person like that, instead
of a bunch of strangers who feel strongly enough about atheism that
they post to alt.atheism.
If you're going to come out, and think you might get very negative
reactions, maybe you should try it first on somebody you trust and
believe in.
I hope that you are not talking to me.
The post has been badly snipped such that it looks as those are my
words.
They are not.
--
Michael Gray.
Founding Member and Doorman,
Earthquack's 666 Club.
EAC Trainee Inquisitor of the month (runner up: March)
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Advice from others like me |
01 May 2006 05:53:06 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 04:13:33 -0500, Tervingi <Tervingi@gmail.com> wrote
in alt.atheism
I went through my whole Gordian knot internal episode a while back. I
would have been content to say bah humbug, God just works in such
mysterious ways, until I realized I might be fighting the brainwashing
Dawkins described in the Virus of Faith, since I was adopted and didn't
learn about God and Santa Claus until I was 5, at which point I
suspected they both were hoaxes.
The point is, my entire family is filled with Evangelical preachers.
Old Time Missionary Baptist Evangelical Preachers. Every male.
I was just hoping for some advice or something. I am still living at
home right now, and feel like I am hiding or something because I can't
tell the truth when they are always talking about church and stuff.
I was talking to this woman at work about theological type things, and
she said oh, don't say that you're an atheist, they scare me.
Anyone not 'singing from the same page' is a hefty threat and often
considered not quite human. Threats have the tendency to be neutralized
in various ways-none of which are healthy.
Anyway, I was just hoping for some advice from personal experience on
whether such a family could ever forgive you once the cats out of the
bag, or really I pretty much just had to tell it to the world that I've
been healed.
Anyway. Thanks.
If you're below 18 and can't permanently move out I'd exercise great
caution. Extreme violence is very very possible. As for 'forgiveness'
forget about the idea.
You might consider, when you can leave on a permanent basis, don't leave
a fowarding address and don't return.
A key indicator is how they currently react to things including
forgiving someone that screwed up.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "Enkidu" |
|
| Title: Re: Advice from others like me |
28 Apr 2006 08:18:02 AM |
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|
Tervingi <Tervingi@gmail.com> wrote in news:ZPidnZju48VdQczZRVn-
pw@comcast.com:
I went through my whole Gordian knot internal episode a while back. I
would have been content to say bah humbug, God just works in such
mysterious ways, until I realized I might be fighting the brainwashing
Dawkins described in the Virus of Faith, since I was adopted and didn't
learn about God and Santa Claus until I was 5, at which point I
suspected they both were hoaxes.
The point is, my entire family is filled with Evangelical preachers.
Old Time Missionary Baptist Evangelical Preachers. Every male.
I was just hoping for some advice or something. I am still living at
home right now, and feel like I am hiding or something because I can't
tell the truth when they are always talking about church and stuff.
I was talking to this woman at work about theological type things, and
she said oh, don't say that you're an atheist, they scare me.
Anyway, I was just hoping for some advice from personal experience on
whether such a family could ever forgive you once the cats out of the
bag, or really I pretty much just had to tell it to the world that I've
been healed.
Anyway. Thanks.
Depends on the family, I guess.
I was lucky myself. When my grandparents died, not one of the four knew
or was known by a priest or preacher. The funeral homes dug up some
losers who went on about "God's mercy" and such rot. Unusual for the
times, places, and social class they came from, as they were all from
Kansas and Missouri, all dirt poor.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
http://www.thoughts.leaddogs.org/
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
PGP ID: 0xC4CE8CF0
Far out in the uncharted backwaters of the unfashionable end of the
Western Spiral arm of the Galaxy lies a small unregarded yellow sun.
Orbiting this at a distance of roughly ninety-eight million miles is an
utterly insignificant little blue-green planet whose ape-descended life
forms are so amazingly primitive that they still think digital watches
are a pretty neat idea.
- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
.
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| User: "towelie" |
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| Title: Re: Advice from others like me |
28 Apr 2006 05:17:21 AM |
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Tervingi wrote:
I went through my whole Gordian knot internal episode a while back. I
would have been content to say bah humbug, God just works in such
mysterious ways, until I realized I might be fighting the brainwashing
Dawkins described in the Virus of Faith, since I was adopted and
didn't learn about God and Santa Claus until I was 5, at which point I
suspected they both were hoaxes.
The point is, my entire family is filled with Evangelical preachers.
Old Time Missionary Baptist Evangelical Preachers. Every male.
I was just hoping for some advice or something. I am still living at
home right now, and feel like I am hiding or something because I can't
tell the truth when they are always talking about church and stuff.
I have to hide it from some of my relatives, so I know what it's like. My
advise is to not rock the boat too bad, and when you can move to a new city
where you don't know anybody. Preferably a city away from the bible belt,
but even large cities in the bible belt are pretty tolerant.
I was talking to this woman at work about theological type things, and
she said oh, don't say that you're an atheist, they scare me.
Fundies scare me.
.
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| User: "Kermit" |
|
| Title: Re: Advice from others like me |
28 Apr 2006 09:20:56 AM |
|
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Tervingi wrote:
I went through my whole Gordian knot internal episode a while back. I
would have been content to say bah humbug, God just works in such
mysterious ways, until I realized I might be fighting the brainwashing
Dawkins described in the Virus of Faith, since I was adopted and didn't
learn about God and Santa Claus until I was 5, at which point I
suspected they both were hoaxes.
The point is, my entire family is filled with Evangelical preachers.
Old Time Missionary Baptist Evangelical Preachers. Every male.
I was just hoping for some advice or something. I am still living at
home right now, and feel like I am hiding or something because I can't
tell the truth when they are always talking about church and stuff.
I was talking to this woman at work about theological type things, and
she said oh, don't say that you're an atheist, they scare me.
Anyway, I was just hoping for some advice from personal experience on
whether such a family could ever forgive you once the cats out of the
bag, or really I pretty much just had to tell it to the world that I've
been healed.
Anyway. Thanks.
--
"Land of the free indeed. We've become a nation of ***** whipped
corporate whores."
- Rick 2003-11-19, 10:59 comp.graphics.apps.photoshop
I was exactly where you are now, 40 years ago (altho I wasn't adopted;
I think I'm some sort of mutant ;))
Don't tell them; at least not until you can escape. They will never
accept or forgive. What you might be able to do is this:
1. Leave home when you can, far enough away that they can't personally
watch your life, knock on your door every day or two, etc.
2. Live your life, learn to be a civilized adult without doctrines
contrary to reality and sane behavior.
3. Try visiting at family outings and such, and if they ask, say that
you are at peace with God, and satisfied with your life.
4. It may not be enough - I haven't seen my family in a long time.
5. Whatever you do, don't rock the boat until you're 18 and graduated
from high school, and free to leave. Life will be Hell on Earth
otherwise.
Kermit,
free for 38 years!
.
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: Advice from others like me |
28 Apr 2006 10:08:15 AM |
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Tervingi wrote:
I went through my whole Gordian knot internal episode a while back. I
would have been content to say bah humbug, God just works in such
mysterious ways, until I realized I might be fighting the brainwashing
Dawkins described in the Virus of Faith, since I was adopted and didn't
learn about God and Santa Claus until I was 5, at which point I
suspected they both were hoaxes.
The point is, my entire family is filled with Evangelical preachers.
Old Time Missionary Baptist Evangelical Preachers. Every male.
I was just hoping for some advice or something. I am still living at
home right now, and feel like I am hiding or something because I can't
tell the truth when they are always talking about church and stuff.
I was talking to this woman at work about theological type things, and
she said oh, don't say that you're an atheist, they scare me.
Anyway, I was just hoping for some advice from personal experience on
whether such a family could ever forgive you once the cats out of the
bag, or really I pretty much just had to tell it to the world that I've
been healed.
Anyway. Thanks.
How important is someone who would drop you from their life if you
disagreed with them?
.
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| User: "skyeyes" |
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| Title: Re: Advice from others like me |
28 Apr 2006 12:13:47 PM |
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Tervingi wrote:
I went through my whole Gordian knot internal episode a while back. I
would have been content to say bah humbug, God just works in such
mysterious ways, until I realized I might be fighting the brainwashing
Dawkins described in the Virus of Faith, since I was adopted and didn't
learn about God and Santa Claus until I was 5, at which point I
suspected they both were hoaxes.
The point is, my entire family is filled with Evangelical preachers.
Old Time Missionary Baptist Evangelical Preachers. Every male.
I was just hoping for some advice or something. I am still living at
home right now, and feel like I am hiding or something because I can't
tell the truth when they are always talking about church and stuff.
I was talking to this woman at work about theological type things, and
she said oh, don't say that you're an atheist, they scare me.
Anyway, I was just hoping for some advice from personal experience on
whether such a family could ever forgive you once the cats out of the
bag, or really I pretty much just had to tell it to the world that I've
been healed.
Hey, kiddo. While I have no preachers in my family, we did grow up
Baptist - Conservative Baptist, which is nearly as fervent a type as
your Missionary Baptist.
I outted myself as an unbeliever during my freshman year in college.
My folks took it hard. They never did "get it," but insisted on
thinking that I was claiming unbelief just to spite them.
However, we remained close for the rest of their lives. So from
personal experience, I can say "It's worse to remain under cover than
it is to let people know where you stand." As long as nobody in your
family is prone to violence, I guess.
It's hard, but liviing a lie is far worse.
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Procfessor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
.
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| User: "Chris Johnson" |
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| Title: Re: Advice from others like me |
28 Apr 2006 04:52:41 AM |
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Tervingi wrote:
I went through my whole Gordian knot internal episode a while back. I
would have been content to say bah humbug, God just works in such
mysterious ways, until I realized I might be fighting the brainwashing
Dawkins described in the Virus of Faith, since I was adopted and didn't
learn about God and Santa Claus until I was 5, at which point I
suspected they both were hoaxes.
The point is, my entire family is filled with Evangelical preachers.
Old Time Missionary Baptist Evangelical Preachers. Every male.
I was just hoping for some advice or something. I am still living at
home right now, and feel like I am hiding or something because I can't
tell the truth when they are always talking about church and stuff.
I was talking to this woman at work about theological type things, and
she said oh, don't say that you're an atheist, they scare me.
Anyway, I was just hoping for some advice from personal experience on
whether such a family could ever forgive you once the cats out of the
bag, or really I pretty much just had to tell it to the world that I've
been healed.
What's to forgive? Either they accept you or they don't. I know it's
got to be hard to risk cutting ties, but on the other hand, what kind
of relationship must be based upon a lie?
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Advice from others like me |
28 Apr 2006 05:27:41 AM |
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On 28 Apr 2006 02:52:41 -0700, "Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <1146217961.784373.142120@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>
Tervingi wrote:
I went through my whole Gordian knot internal episode a while back. I
would have been content to say bah humbug, God just works in such
mysterious ways, until I realized I might be fighting the brainwashing
Dawkins described in the Virus of Faith, since I was adopted and didn't
learn about God and Santa Claus until I was 5, at which point I
suspected they both were hoaxes.
The point is, my entire family is filled with Evangelical preachers.
Old Time Missionary Baptist Evangelical Preachers. Every male.
I was just hoping for some advice or something. I am still living at
home right now, and feel like I am hiding or something because I can't
tell the truth when they are always talking about church and stuff.
I was talking to this woman at work about theological type things, and
she said oh, don't say that you're an atheist, they scare me.
Anyway, I was just hoping for some advice from personal experience on
whether such a family could ever forgive you once the cats out of the
bag, or really I pretty much just had to tell it to the world that I've
been healed.
What's to forgive? Either they accept you or they don't. I know it's
got to be hard to risk cutting ties, but on the other hand, what kind
of relationship must be based upon a lie?
A "loving Christian" relationship.
--
Michael Gray.
Founding Member and Doorman,
Earthquack's 666 Club.
EAC Trainee Inquisitor.
Pluritalis non est ponenda sine necessitate
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Advice from others like me |
28 Apr 2006 10:17:37 PM |
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Tervingi wrote:
I went through my whole Gordian knot internal episode a while back. I
would have been content to say bah humbug, God just works in such
mysterious ways, until I realized I might be fighting the brainwashing
Dawkins described in the Virus of Faith, since I was adopted and didn't
learn about God and Santa Claus until I was 5, at which point I
suspected they both were hoaxes.
The point is, my entire family is filled with Evangelical preachers.
Old Time Missionary Baptist Evangelical Preachers. Every male.
That has to be really rough.
I was just hoping for some advice or something. I am still living at
home right now, and feel like I am hiding or something because I can't
tell the truth when they are always talking about church and stuff.
They won't ever accept the truth. If you reveal your true feelings
about this before you are able to leave, they will never stop trying to
bring you back into the fold. Remember- they will think you have been
brainwashed, when in reality you have escaped the brainwashing.
Failing that, they will probably ostracize you. Religious
fundamentalists are not known for their tolerance. I wish you the best.
I was talking to this woman at work about theological type things, and
she said oh, don't say that you're an atheist, they scare me.
Yes, atheists often commit hate crimes. NOT.
Anyway, I was just hoping for some advice from personal experience on
whether such a family could ever forgive you once the cats out of the
bag, or really I pretty much just had to tell it to the world that I've
been healed.
Anyway. Thanks.
--
Good luck to you. Move out as soon as you can. Live your life. Be more
tolerant of them than they are to you, remember, they are products of
their unfortunate upbringing.
Chris
"Land of the free indeed. We've become a nation of ***** whipped
corporate whores."
- Rick 2003-11-19, 10:59 comp.graphics.apps.photoshop
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Advice from others like me |
28 Apr 2006 11:41:30 AM |
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Tervingi wrote:
I went through my whole Gordian knot internal episode a while back. I
would have been content to say bah humbug, God just works in such
mysterious ways, until I realized I might be fighting the brainwashing
Dawkins described in the Virus of Faith, since I was adopted and didn't
learn about God and Santa Claus until I was 5, at which point I
suspected they both were hoaxes.
Adopted children often feel alienated and feel a need to rebel against
parental authority, due to the logical hypocrisy of the situation. It
would be sad if that's really all that's at the heart of the matter.
The point is, my entire family is filled with Evangelical preachers.
Old Time Missionary Baptist Evangelical Preachers. Every male.
I was just hoping for some advice or something. I am still living at
home right now, and feel like I am hiding or something because I can't
tell the truth when they are always talking about church and stuff.
Atheists hold truth as Fundementalist Christians hold truth... as if it
mattered. Truth doesn't generally matter to anyone, who has a life. It
never has. It never will. It's the stuff of saints, blowhards and
serial killers. Assuming you have no great desire to be one of those, I
suggest you find a woman, who will acquaint you with the pleasures of
the flesh.
I was talking to this woman at work about theological type things, and
she said oh, don't say that you're an atheist, they scare me.
Well ! People who think they're wired into some greater truth alienate
themselves from others. You don't see the Pope getting laid. You want
to be alone, unloved and doomed to spend your life that way, it's
really your call. I don't recommend it!
The woman knows that church people are just church people. The Bible is
like "Star Trek". It's a way to share morality lessons. Trivia is
trivia and can be fun, if you remember it's trivia. Your brain is
capable of storing multiple levels of context and keeping them
separate, so there's no reason to confuse the Unitied Space Ship
Enterprise with Noah's Ark or with the aircraft carrier U.S.S.
Enterprise. Each is in its own context and true to that context.
Anyway, I was just hoping for some advice from personal experience on
whether such a family could ever forgive you once the cats out of the
bag, or really I pretty much just had to tell it to the world that I've
been healed.
If your family were trekkies, would you feel obligated to some greater
truth to be a pain in the ***** and give them ***** about it? I don't
think so! You'd put on your pointed Vulcan ears and go to the Star Trek
convention or you sit and pout in your room. It's up to you. You're
just making yourself unhappy.
JTG 4/28/06
Anyway. Thanks.
--
"Land of the free indeed. We've become a nation of ***** whipped
corporate whores."
- Rick 2003-11-19, 10:59 comp.graphics.apps.photoshop
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Advice from others like me |
28 Apr 2006 11:47:05 AM |
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On 28 Apr 2006 09:41:30 -0700, "jgrisham@scu.k12.ca.us"
<jgrisham@scu.k12.ca.us> wrote:
Tervingi wrote:
I went through my whole Gordian knot internal episode a while back. I
would have been content to say bah humbug, God just works in such
mysterious ways, until I realized I might be fighting the brainwashing
Dawkins described in the Virus of Faith, since I was adopted and didn't
learn about God and Santa Claus until I was 5, at which point I
suspected they both were hoaxes.
Adopted children often feel alienated and feel a need to rebel against
parental authority, due to the logical hypocrisy of the situation. It
would be sad if that's really all that's at the heart of the matter.
A standard and frustratingly common theist canard.
The point is, my entire family is filled with Evangelical preachers.
Old Time Missionary Baptist Evangelical Preachers. Every male.
I was just hoping for some advice or something. I am still living at
home right now, and feel like I am hiding or something because I can't
tell the truth when they are always talking about church and stuff.
Atheists hold truth as Fundementalist Christians hold truth... as if it
A standard but stupid lie. Why don't you assholes ask us instead of
telling us?
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| User: "Tervingi" |
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| Title: Re: Advice from others like me |
28 Apr 2006 02:14:35 PM |
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Christopher A. Lee wrote:
On 28 Apr 2006 09:41:30 -0700, "jgrisham@scu.k12.ca.us"
<jgrisham@scu.k12.ca.us> wrote:
Tervingi wrote:
I went through my whole Gordian knot internal episode a while back. I
would have been content to say bah humbug, God just works in such
mysterious ways, until I realized I might be fighting the brainwashing
Dawkins described in the Virus of Faith, since I was adopted and didn't
learn about God and Santa Claus until I was 5, at which point I
suspected they both were hoaxes.
Adopted children often feel alienated and feel a need to rebel against
parental authority, due to the logical hypocrisy of the situation. It
would be sad if that's really all that's at the heart of the matter.
A standard and frustratingly common theist canard.
The point is, my entire family is filled with Evangelical preachers.
Old Time Missionary Baptist Evangelical Preachers. Every male.
I was just hoping for some advice or something. I am still living at
home right now, and feel like I am hiding or something because I can't
tell the truth when they are always talking about church and stuff.
Atheists hold truth as Fundementalist Christians hold truth... as if it
A standard but stupid lie. Why don't you assholes ask us instead of
telling us?
I am not sure what the definition of Christian entails, can you call
yourself Christian if you believe the Jesus story is a religious version
of a myth like Robin Hood?
I guess the reason people are afraid of atheists is the seeming
disregard for traditional institutions. They fail to understand the
incredible benefits of humanism.
I guess I will just start referring to divine providence and good old
sophia and secretly meaning luck and wisdom while people around me think
I mean Jehovah.
--
"Land of the free indeed. We've become a nation of ***** whipped
corporate whores."
- Rick 2003-11-19, 10:59 comp.graphics.apps.photoshop
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Advice from others like me |
28 Apr 2006 02:45:50 PM |
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On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 14:14:35 -0500, Tervingi <Tervingi@gmail.com>
wrote:
Christopher A. Lee wrote:
On 28 Apr 2006 09:41:30 -0700, "jgrisham@scu.k12.ca.us"
<jgrisham@scu.k12.ca.us> wrote:
Tervingi wrote:
I went through my whole Gordian knot internal episode a while back. I
would have been content to say bah humbug, God just works in such
mysterious ways, until I realized I might be fighting the brainwashing
Dawkins described in the Virus of Faith, since I was adopted and didn't
learn about God and Santa Claus until I was 5, at which point I
suspected they both were hoaxes.
Adopted children often feel alienated and feel a need to rebel against
parental authority, due to the logical hypocrisy of the situation. It
would be sad if that's really all that's at the heart of the matter.
A standard and frustratingly common theist canard.
You're going to get bombarded with this kind of stupidity because they
can't cope with ordinary decent people not sharing their most
fundamental beliefs. They even see being uninterested as deliberate
dissing. So they try to amateur-psychologise "reasons" why you say you
hold a POV that can't even exist in their minds.
The point is, my entire family is filled with Evangelical preachers.
Old Time Missionary Baptist Evangelical Preachers. Every male.
I was just hoping for some advice or something. I am still living at
home right now, and feel like I am hiding or something because I can't
tell the truth when they are always talking about church and stuff.
Atheists hold truth as Fundementalist Christians hold truth... as if it
A standard but stupid lie. Why don't you assholes ask us instead of
telling us?
I am not sure what the definition of Christian entails, can you call
yourself Christian if you believe the Jesus story is a religious version
of a myth like Robin Hood?
Some people do, outside the USA. A lot of people in England call
themselves CofE even though they don't really believe any of it. They
go to christenings, weddings and funerals because it's culturally
expected (hatched, matched and dispatched) but that's about all.
I guess the reason people are afraid of atheists is the seeming
disregard for traditional institutions. They fail to understand the
incredible benefits of humanism.
It's more than that. They have been programmed to believe all sorts of
slanderous stereotypes about atheists. What we actually are, can't
even exist in their minds. And they know that you're not what they
imagine an atheist is so they rationalise reasons why you say it.
You'll never get through to them because it gets filtered through
their preconceptions.
Which are regularly reinforced from the pulpit and even in the news
media. Like the "no atheists in foxholes" slander.
I guess I will just start referring to divine providence and good old
sophia and secretly meaning luck and wisdom while people around me think
I mean Jehovah.
No need to do that. Just get on with your life.
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