| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Fred Stone" |
| Date: |
10 Dec 2004 10:01:26 AM |
| Object: |
Advice to Britons on Self-Defense |
http://belmontclub.blogspot.com/2004/12/defense-of-realm-dr.html
Dr. Ian Stephen "an Honorary Lecturer (Forensic Psychology) at Glasgow
Caledonian University" and "a consultant to forensic psychology
television series Cracker" gave some advice to British householders on
the appropriate way to handle a home invasion. The advice was given in
response to heightened public fears caused by the murder of British
financier John Monckton. Burglars tricked him into opening his door by
impersonating mailmen. He was killed in the hallway of his multimillion-
dollar home. His wife, Viscountess Monckton of Brenchley, was stabbed so
hard her ribs were broken. Dr. Stephen begins by sadly and regretfully
observing that in the UK
if you attack the burglar, or react in an "over the top" manner, as
was recently illustrated in the case of Tony Martin who shot intruders
in his Norfolk farmhouse, you will inevitably end up on the receiving
end of a prison sentence that will far outstrip that imposed on the
intruder in your own home.
That being the unfortunate case the Briton is advised to make the best
of a bad situation by acting in the following way.
When individuals are confronted by intruders there are some actions
they should follow. Direct contact should be avoided whenever possible.
If unavoidable, the victim should adopt a state of active passivity. In
most cases the best form of defence is always avoidance. If this isn’t
possible, act passively, be careful what you say or do and give up
valuables without a struggle. This allows the victim to take charge of
the situation, without the intruder’s awareness, through subtle and non-
confrontational means. People can cooperate but initiate nothing. By
doing nothing there is no chance of inadvertently initiating violence by
saying something such as "Please don’t hurt me".
"Cooperate but initiate nothing". We will return to that phrase in a
moment, but first we must continue with Dr. Stephen's cautionary advice.
He says it is important not to affront or startle the burglar in any
way, not simply out of a regard for their feelings, for whose hurt the
householder may liable, but to avoid arousing an aggression which it is
expressly forbidden to resist.
Sometimes the perpetrator of a burglary is even more terrified than
the victim and in many cases when things go wrong it is the perpetrator
of the crime who panics. Although they sometimes go equipped with
weapons, in most cases they probably don’t intend to use them but in the
heat of the moment, and the fear of either getting caught or attacked
themselves, they use them. They don’t expect the person they are trying
to hold up to retaliate or react. Mostly the knife is there simply for
intimidation rather than intent to use it and they finish up killing
somebody by accident rather than design....
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Save Your Dixie Cups, The South Will Rise Again!
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| User: "Pastor Ized" |
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| Title: Re: Advice to Britons on Self-Defense |
10 Dec 2004 12:17:41 PM |
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"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95BB702508916fstone69@205.188.138.161...
http://belmontclub.blogspot.com/2004/12/defense-of-realm-dr.html
Dr. Ian Stephen "an Honorary Lecturer (Forensic Psychology) at Glasgow
Caledonian University" and "a consultant to forensic psychology
television series Cracker" gave some advice to British householders on
the appropriate way to handle a home invasion. The advice was given in
response to heightened public fears caused by the murder of British
financier John Monckton. Burglars tricked him into opening his door by
impersonating mailmen. He was killed in the hallway of his multimillion-
dollar home. His wife, Viscountess Monckton of Brenchley, was stabbed so
hard her ribs were broken. Dr. Stephen begins by sadly and regretfully
observing that in the UK
Guns along with many other American cultural icons are becoming prevelent in
British youth society.
if you attack the burglar, or react in an "over the top" manner, as
was recently illustrated in the case of Tony Martin who shot intruders
in his Norfolk farmhouse, you will inevitably end up on the receiving
end of a prison sentence that will far outstrip that imposed on the
intruder in your own home.
I lived in Stretford, Manchester UK for a while, my house was over run on
several occaisions the intruders soon learned that I might use a claw
hammer.
That being the unfortunate case the Briton is advised to make the best
of a bad situation by acting in the following way.
A bad situation is when you do not survive the encounter.
When individuals are confronted by intruders there are some actions
they should follow.
Take control of the situation
Direct contact should be avoided whenever possible.
No, direct contact involves sneakily jamming a biro into your assailants eye
socket.
If unavoidable, the victim should adopt a state of active passivity. In
most cases the best form of defence is always avoidance. If this isn't
possible, act passively, be careful what you say or do and give up
valuables without a struggle. This allows the victim to take charge of
the situation, without the intruder's awareness, through subtle and non-
confrontational means. People can cooperate but initiate nothing. By
doing nothing there is no chance of inadvertently initiating violence by
saying something such as "Please don't hurt me".
Confuse the mofo, hold your clawhammer in a non threatening way and then
plead 'please don't hurt me'.
"Cooperate but initiate nothing". We will return to that phrase in a
moment, but first we must continue with Dr. Stephen's cautionary advice.
He says it is important not to affront or startle the burglar in any
way, not simply out of a regard for their feelings, for whose hurt the
householder may liable, but to avoid arousing an aggression which it is
expressly forbidden to resist.
Sometimes the perpetrator of a burglary is even more terrified than
the victim and in many cases when things go wrong it is the perpetrator
of the crime who panics. Although they sometimes go equipped with
weapons, in most cases they probably don't intend to use them but in the
heat of the moment, and the fear of either getting caught or attacked
themselves, they use them. They don't expect the person they are trying
to hold up to retaliate or react. Mostly the knife is there simply for
intimidation rather than intent to use it and they finish up killing
somebody by accident rather than design....
What's cheaper burying a family member or paying a fine/doing time.
LW
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| User: "Ash" |
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| Title: Re: Advice to Britons on Self-Defense |
10 Dec 2004 01:58:45 PM |
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Fred Stone wrote:
http://belmontclub.blogspot.com/2004/12/defense-of-realm-dr.html
if you attack the burglar, or react in an "over the top" manner, as
was recently illustrated in the case of Tony Martin who shot intruders
in his Norfolk farmhouse, you will inevitably end up on the receiving
end of a prison sentence that will far outstrip that imposed on the
intruder in your own home.
yeah, we should all be allowed to shoot kids in the back when they are
running away. Other than that, the article is pretty poor, people are
allowed to defend themselves with reasonable force
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Advice to Britons on Self-Defense |
10 Dec 2004 04:13:57 PM |
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Ash <ashamanic@winterfell73.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in
news:cpcv5f$c40$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk:
Fred Stone wrote:
http://belmontclub.blogspot.com/2004/12/defense-of-realm-dr.html
if you attack the burglar, or react in an "over the top" manner,
as
was recently illustrated in the case of Tony Martin who shot
intruders in his Norfolk farmhouse, you will inevitably end up on the
receiving end of a prison sentence that will far outstrip that
imposed on the intruder in your own home.
yeah, we should all be allowed to shoot kids in the back when they are
running away. Other than that, the article is pretty poor, people are
allowed to defend themselves with reasonable force
The question is "what is reasonable force?" And if they menaced me and
then ran away when I outgunned them, what will they do to the next
person who *doesn't* have a gun?
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Save Your Dixie Cups, The South Will Rise Again!
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Advice to Britons on Self-Defense |
11 Dec 2004 02:06:17 PM |
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On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 22:13:57 +0000 (UTC), Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
Ash <ashamanic@winterfell73.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in
news:cpcv5f$c40$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk:
Fred Stone wrote:
http://belmontclub.blogspot.com/2004/12/defense-of-realm-dr.html
if you attack the burglar, or react in an "over the top" manner,
as
was recently illustrated in the case of Tony Martin who shot
intruders in his Norfolk farmhouse, you will inevitably end up on the
receiving end of a prison sentence that will far outstrip that
imposed on the intruder in your own home.
yeah, we should all be allowed to shoot kids in the back when they are
running away. Other than that, the article is pretty poor, people are
allowed to defend themselves with reasonable force
The question is "what is reasonable force?" And if they menaced me and
then ran away when I outgunned them, what will they do to the next
person who *doesn't* have a gun?
Here in Memphis if they violate the sanctity of the home *any* force
is considered reasonable.
We are neither required to plead for mercy nor reason with the
intruder.
The home is still considered to be a sanctuary for it's residents and
not public property.
Still, if we shoot a guy while he is fleeing we had better do so while
he is inside because once he exits the property he is no longer
considered a threat.
atheist@home#1554
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Advice to Britons on Self-Defense |
11 Dec 2004 03:19:28 PM |
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wrote in
news:6tjmr059mcck93ngipsk61ucrl10b960no@4ax.com:
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 22:13:57 +0000 (UTC), Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
Ash <ashamanic@winterfell73.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in
news:cpcv5f$c40$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk:
Fred Stone wrote:
http://belmontclub.blogspot.com/2004/12/defense-of-realm-dr.html
if you attack the burglar, or react in an "over the top"
manner, as
was recently illustrated in the case of Tony Martin who shot
intruders in his Norfolk farmhouse, you will inevitably end up on
the receiving end of a prison sentence that will far outstrip that
imposed on the intruder in your own home.
yeah, we should all be allowed to shoot kids in the back when they
are running away. Other than that, the article is pretty poor,
people are allowed to defend themselves with reasonable force
The question is "what is reasonable force?" And if they menaced me and
then ran away when I outgunned them, what will they do to the next
person who *doesn't* have a gun?
Here in Memphis if they violate the sanctity of the home *any* force
is considered reasonable.
We are neither required to plead for mercy nor reason with the
intruder.
The home is still considered to be a sanctuary for it's residents and
not public property.
Still, if we shoot a guy while he is fleeing we had better do so while
he is inside because once he exits the property he is no longer
considered a threat.
That seems reasonable to me.
There was a local news story of a store clerk plugging a robber just
this week, caught on security camera. The crook went down, she called
911, he'll be charged with the robbery.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Save Your Dixie Cups, The South Will Rise Again!
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| User: "Pastor Ized" |
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| Title: Re: Advice to Britons on Self-Defense |
11 Dec 2004 03:11:11 PM |
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It cost me £25,000 to quickly move to a place where my house would not be
continualy ripped off!
LW
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| User: "Mekkala" |
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| Title: Re: Advice to Britons on Self-Defense |
10 Dec 2004 11:04:07 AM |
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On Fri 10 Dec 2004 10:01:26a, Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> kicked
back with a beer, ruminated at length, fell asleep, woke up, lit up a
joint, then fell asleep again after thoughtfully blurting out:
http://belmontclub.blogspot.com/2004/12/defense-of-realm-dr.html
Dr. Ian Stephen "an Honorary Lecturer (Forensic Psychology) at Glasgow
Caledonian University" and "a consultant to forensic psychology
television series Cracker" gave some advice to British householders on
the appropriate way to handle a home invasion. The advice was given in
response to heightened public fears caused by the murder of British
financier John Monckton. Burglars tricked him into opening his door by
impersonating mailmen. He was killed in the hallway of his multimillion-
dollar home. His wife, Viscountess Monckton of Brenchley, was stabbed so
hard her ribs were broken. Dr. Stephen begins by sadly and regretfully
observing that in the UK
if you attack the burglar, or react in an "over the top" manner, as
was recently illustrated in the case of Tony Martin who shot intruders
in his Norfolk farmhouse, you will inevitably end up on the receiving
end of a prison sentence that will far outstrip that imposed on the
intruder in your own home.
That being the unfortunate case the Briton is advised to make the best
of a bad situation by acting in the following way.
When individuals are confronted by intruders there are some actions
they should follow. Direct contact should be avoided whenever possible.
If unavoidable, the victim should adopt a state of active passivity. In
most cases the best form of defence is always avoidance. If this isn’t
possible, act passively, be careful what you say or do and give up
valuables without a struggle. This allows the victim to take charge of
the situation, without the intruder’s awareness, through subtle and non-
confrontational means. People can cooperate but initiate nothing. By
doing nothing there is no chance of inadvertently initiating violence by
saying something such as "Please don’t hurt me".
"Cooperate but initiate nothing". We will return to that phrase in a
moment, but first we must continue with Dr. Stephen's cautionary advice.
He says it is important not to affront or startle the burglar in any
way, not simply out of a regard for their feelings, for whose hurt the
householder may liable, but to avoid arousing an aggression which it is
expressly forbidden to resist.
Sometimes the perpetrator of a burglary is even more terrified than
the victim and in many cases when things go wrong it is the perpetrator
of the crime who panics. Although they sometimes go equipped with
weapons, in most cases they probably don’t intend to use them but in the
heat of the moment, and the fear of either getting caught or attacked
themselves, they use them. They don’t expect the person they are trying
to hold up to retaliate or react. Mostly the knife is there simply for
intimidation rather than intent to use it and they finish up killing
somebody by accident rather than design....
This is good advice, but it all depends on the idea that the intruder
really would rather not hurt you. That's not exactly something you can
count on.
Of course, as he points out, in GB the self-defense laws aren't exactly
fair, so there's really not a lot else you can do, other than be prepared
to defend yourself if it gets to the point that you have no choice. In
fact, I would advise everyone in a country where deadly weapons are illegal
to become skilled in at least one martial art.
--
Mekkala, Atheist #2148
"Atheism is ... the bed-rock of sanity in a world of madness."
--Emmett F. Fields
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| User: "Rune Børsjø" |
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| Title: Re: Advice to Britons on Self-Defense |
10 Dec 2004 11:46:10 AM |
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On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:01:26 +0000 (UTC), Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
if you attack the burglar, or react in an "over the top" manner, as
was recently illustrated in the case of Tony Martin who shot intruders
in his Norfolk farmhouse, you will inevitably end up on the receiving
end of a prison sentence that will far outstrip that imposed on the
intruder in your own home.
"Political prisoner Tony Martin has been released at last after more
than three years inside for the crime of self defence. The Criminal
Justice system managed to delay his release again, on the grounds of
the risk he posed to members of Britain's burgling community as they
went about their daily labours.
An independent report reveals police numbers have fallen under labour.
Norfolk has one of the lowest levels of officers per head of
population.
Showing great moral courage, Mr Martin again refused to show the
required degree of repentance which could have earned him a release
last year.
One of the three criminals who targeted Tony Martin has been granted
legal aid to sue him for 'loss of earnings'. The poor man has since
been scraping a living dealing heroin to keep body and soul together."
.
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: Advice to Britons on Self-Defense |
10 Dec 2004 11:57:57 AM |
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On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 18:46:10 +0100 in alt.atheism, Rune Børsjø (Rune
Børsjø <buggeroffm@te.com>) said, directing the reply to alt.atheism
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:01:26 +0000 (UTC), Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
if you attack the burglar, or react in an "over the top" manner, as
was recently illustrated in the case of Tony Martin who shot intruders
in his Norfolk farmhouse, you will inevitably end up on the receiving
end of a prison sentence that will far outstrip that imposed on the
intruder in your own home.
"Political prisoner Tony Martin has been released at last after more
than three years inside for the crime of self defence. The Criminal
Justice system managed to delay his release again, on the grounds of
the risk he posed to members of Britain's burgling community as they
went about their daily labours.
An independent report reveals police numbers have fallen under labour.
Norfolk has one of the lowest levels of officers per head of
population.
Showing great moral courage, Mr Martin again refused to show the
required degree of repentance which could have earned him a release
last year.
One of the three criminals who targeted Tony Martin has been granted
legal aid to sue him for 'loss of earnings'. The poor man has since
been scraping a living dealing heroin to keep body and soul together."
Hummm..... I think you need to look at the case in a bit more detail.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Advice to Britons on Self-Defense |
10 Dec 2004 12:55:02 PM |
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On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 17:57:57 +0000, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 18:46:10 +0100 in alt.atheism, Rune Børsjø (Rune
Børsjø <buggeroffm@te.com>) said, directing the reply to alt.atheism
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:01:26 +0000 (UTC), Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
if you attack the burglar, or react in an "over the top" manner, as
was recently illustrated in the case of Tony Martin who shot intruders
in his Norfolk farmhouse, you will inevitably end up on the receiving
end of a prison sentence that will far outstrip that imposed on the
intruder in your own home.
"Political prisoner Tony Martin has been released at last after more
than three years inside for the crime of self defence. The Criminal
Justice system managed to delay his release again, on the grounds of
the risk he posed to members of Britain's burgling community as they
went about their daily labours.
An independent report reveals police numbers have fallen under labour.
Norfolk has one of the lowest levels of officers per head of
population.
Showing great moral courage, Mr Martin again refused to show the
required degree of repentance which could have earned him a release
last year.
One of the three criminals who targeted Tony Martin has been granted
legal aid to sue him for 'loss of earnings'. The poor man has since
been scraping a living dealing heroin to keep body and soul together."
Hummm..... I think you need to look at the case in a bit more detail.
Indeed. For the benefit of any US readers reality is somewhat
different from the picture painted. Official Police numbers are nows
at record levels and the number of Community Support Officers
who patrol our street on foot to deter crime and deal with minor
crime are growing quickly, The are already starting to become a
familiar sight on our Streets.
In our area burglary, once a major scourge is falling rapidy. It was
down 25% last year on top of a similar large fall last year. In the
city centre last year there was no street crime at all. Not one single
mugging.
Les Hellawell
greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
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| User: "Rune Børsjø" |
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| Title: Re: Advice to Britons on Self-Defense |
11 Dec 2004 02:47:26 AM |
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On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 17:57:57 +0000, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
Hummm..... I think you need to look at the case in a bit more detail.
Certainly, he blasted them without giving any kind of warning etc.,
but is what he did actually illegal?
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| User: "Ash" |
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| Title: Re: Advice to Britons on Self-Defense |
11 Dec 2004 04:38:25 AM |
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Rune Børsjø wrote:
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 17:57:57 +0000, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
Hummm..... I think you need to look at the case in a bit more detail.
Certainly, he blasted them without giving any kind of warning etc.,
but is what he did actually illegal?
Shot them when they were not presenting any threat to him
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Advice to Britons on Self-Defense |
11 Dec 2004 08:04:21 AM |
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Ash <ashamanic@winterfell73.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in news:cpeimq$6ss$2
@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk:
Rune Børsjø wrote:
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 17:57:57 +0000, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
Hummm..... I think you need to look at the case in a bit more detail.
Certainly, he blasted them without giving any kind of warning etc.,
but is what he did actually illegal?
Shot them when they were not presenting any threat to him
*After* they had presented a threat to him.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Save Your Dixie Cups, The South Will Rise Again!
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| User: "Rune Børsjø" |
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| Title: Re: Advice to Britons on Self-Defense |
11 Dec 2004 08:10:30 AM |
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On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 14:04:21 +0000 (UTC), Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
*After* they had presented a threat to him.
I've been threatened several times in the past. Should I take one of
my weapons and go on a killing spree?
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Advice to Britons on Self-Defense |
11 Dec 2004 08:30:23 AM |
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Rune Børsjø <buggeroffm@te.com> wrote in
news:mtvlr01187qbmhsphukgvi4utuu818qf3n@4ax.com:
On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 14:04:21 +0000 (UTC), Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
*After* they had presented a threat to him.
I've been threatened several times in the past. Should I take one of
my weapons and go on a killing spree?
I'd think that there's a reasonable time period involved.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Save Your Dixie Cups, The South Will Rise Again!
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| User: "Pastor Ized" |
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| Title: Re: Advice to Britons on Self-Defense |
10 Dec 2004 12:27:43 PM |
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"Rune Børsjø" <buggeroffm@te.com> wrote in message
news:gmnjr0h43to5g0es0c5qvdanvl4b9775pm@4ax.com...
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:01:26 +0000 (UTC), Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
if you attack the burglar, or react in an "over the top" manner, as
was recently illustrated in the case of Tony Martin who shot intruders
in his Norfolk farmhouse, you will inevitably end up on the receiving
end of a prison sentence that will far outstrip that imposed on the
intruder in your own home.
"Political prisoner Tony Martin has been released at last after more
than three years inside for the crime of self defence. The Criminal
Justice system managed to delay his release again, on the grounds of
the risk he posed to members of Britain's burgling community as they
went about their daily labours.
An independent report reveals police numbers have fallen under labour.
Norfolk has one of the lowest levels of officers per head of
population.
Showing great moral courage, Mr Martin again refused to show the
required degree of repentance which could have earned him a release
last year.
One of the three criminals who targeted Tony Martin has been granted
legal aid to sue him for 'loss of earnings'. The poor man has since
been scraping a living dealing heroin to keep body and soul together."
You have summed it goodstyle Rune, Tony Martin rocks.
LW
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| User: "kathryn" |
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| Title: Re: Advice to Britons on Self-Defense |
10 Dec 2004 12:46:14 PM |
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"Rune Børsjø" <buggeroffm@te.com> wrote in message
news:gmnjr0h43to5g0es0c5qvdanvl4b9775pm@4ax.com...
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:01:26 +0000 (UTC), Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
if you attack the burglar, or react in an "over the top" manner, as
was recently illustrated in the case of Tony Martin who shot intruders
in his Norfolk farmhouse, you will inevitably end up on the receiving
end of a prison sentence that will far outstrip that imposed on the
intruder in your own home.
"Political prisoner Tony Martin has been released at last after more
than three years inside for the crime of self defence. The Criminal
Justice system managed to delay his release again, on the grounds of
the risk he posed to members of Britain's burgling community as they
went about their daily labours.
An independent report reveals police numbers have fallen under labour.
Norfolk has one of the lowest levels of officers per head of
population.
Showing great moral courage, Mr Martin again refused to show the
required degree of repentance which could have earned him a release
last year.
One of the three criminals who targeted Tony Martin has been granted
legal aid to sue him for 'loss of earnings'. The poor man has since
been scraping a living dealing heroin to keep body and soul together."
You should probably add that he shot and killed one of the intruders. I
don't think you should the have the right to kill someone who was stealing
your stuff
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Advice to Britons on Self-Defense |
10 Dec 2004 12:52:45 PM |
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"kathryn" <bob@bob.com> wrote in message
news:cpcqtj$h47$1@titan.btinternet.com...
"Rune Børsjø" <buggeroffm@te.com> wrote in message
news:gmnjr0h43to5g0es0c5qvdanvl4b9775pm@4ax.com...
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:01:26 +0000 (UTC), Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
if you attack the burglar, or react in an "over the top" manner, as
was recently illustrated in the case of Tony Martin who shot intruders
in his Norfolk farmhouse, you will inevitably end up on the receiving
end of a prison sentence that will far outstrip that imposed on the
intruder in your own home.
"Political prisoner Tony Martin has been released at last after more
than three years inside for the crime of self defence. The Criminal
Justice system managed to delay his release again, on the grounds of
the risk he posed to members of Britain's burgling community as they
went about their daily labours.
An independent report reveals police numbers have fallen under labour.
Norfolk has one of the lowest levels of officers per head of
population.
Showing great moral courage, Mr Martin again refused to show the
required degree of repentance which could have earned him a release
last year.
One of the three criminals who targeted Tony Martin has been granted
legal aid to sue him for 'loss of earnings'. The poor man has since
been scraping a living dealing heroin to keep body and soul together."
You should probably add that he shot and killed one of the intruders. I
don't think you should the have the right to kill someone who was stealing
your stuff
You do if you life in Texas. I think all they have to do is step foot on
your property.
--
---------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
.
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| User: "kathryn" |
|
| Title: Re: Advice to Britons on Self-Defense |
10 Dec 2004 04:32:44 PM |
|
|
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:31u9jrF3c72ikU1@individual.net...
"kathryn" <bob@bob.com> wrote in message
news:cpcqtj$h47$1@titan.btinternet.com...
"Rune Børsjø" <buggeroffm@te.com> wrote in message
news:gmnjr0h43to5g0es0c5qvdanvl4b9775pm@4ax.com...
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:01:26 +0000 (UTC), Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
if you attack the burglar, or react in an "over the top" manner, as
was recently illustrated in the case of Tony Martin who shot intruders
in his Norfolk farmhouse, you will inevitably end up on the receiving
end of a prison sentence that will far outstrip that imposed on the
intruder in your own home.
"Political prisoner Tony Martin has been released at last after more
than three years inside for the crime of self defence. The Criminal
Justice system managed to delay his release again, on the grounds of
the risk he posed to members of Britain's burgling community as they
went about their daily labours.
An independent report reveals police numbers have fallen under labour.
Norfolk has one of the lowest levels of officers per head of
population.
Showing great moral courage, Mr Martin again refused to show the
required degree of repentance which could have earned him a release
last year.
One of the three criminals who targeted Tony Martin has been granted
legal aid to sue him for 'loss of earnings'. The poor man has since
been scraping a living dealing heroin to keep body and soul together."
You should probably add that he shot and killed one of the intruders. I
don't think you should the have the right to kill someone who was
stealing your stuff
You do if you life in Texas. I think all they have to do is step foot on
your property.
--
---------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
To me that's not a good thing
.
|
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Advice to Britons on Self-Defense |
11 Dec 2004 06:47:05 AM |
|
|
"kathryn" <bob@bob.com> wrote in message
news:cpd86c$58v$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:31u9jrF3c72ikU1@individual.net...
"kathryn" <bob@bob.com> wrote in message
news:cpcqtj$h47$1@titan.btinternet.com...
snip
You should probably add that he shot and killed one of the intruders. I
don't think you should the have the right to kill someone who was
stealing your stuff
You do if you life in Texas. I think all they have to do is step foot on
your property.
To me that's not a good thing
Believe me, I agree. The father of one of my husband's friends shot and
killed burglar that had gotten into their house. If that happened in my
neck of the woods, the burglar's family would have sued and won.
--
---------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
.
|
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Advice to Britons on Self-Defense |
11 Dec 2004 09:02:20 AM |
|
|
In our last episode <3208i6F3h6625U1@individual.net>, Robibnikoff lept out
of the bushes shouting:
"kathryn" <bob@bob.com> wrote in message
news:cpd86c$58v$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:31u9jrF3c72ikU1@individual.net...
"kathryn" <bob@bob.com> wrote in message
news:cpcqtj$h47$1@titan.btinternet.com...
snip
You should probably add that he shot and killed one of the intruders.
I don't think you should the have the right to kill someone who was
stealing your stuff
You do if you life in Texas. I think all they have to do is step foot
on your property.
To me that's not a good thing
Believe me, I agree. The father of one of my husband's friends shot and
killed burglar that had gotten into their house. If that happened in my
neck of the woods, the burglar's family would have sued and won.
Well, this is one area I'm solidly Texan and Southern. Break into
somebody's house, you deserve what you get.
The rule is: "don't break into peoples' houses." It's just not so hard a
rule to follow.
I'm sorry but I grew up in one of those areas in Texas everybody thinks
they know something about. Rural, everybody had guns. People also left
their keys in their cars, never remembered to lock their doors, and talked
for twenty years about THE murder.
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Being surprised at the fact that the universe
is fine tuned for life is akin to a puddle being
surprised at how well it fits its hole"
-- Douglas Adams
.
|
|
|
| User: "Kate " |
|
| Title: Re: Advice to Britons on Self-Defense |
11 Dec 2004 09:32:14 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 09:02:20 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
In our last episode <3208i6F3h6625U1@individual.net>, Robibnikoff lept out
of the bushes shouting:
"kathryn" <bob@bob.com> wrote in message
news:cpd86c$58v$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:31u9jrF3c72ikU1@individual.net...
"kathryn" <bob@bob.com> wrote in message
news:cpcqtj$h47$1@titan.btinternet.com...
snip
You should probably add that he shot and killed one of the intruders.
I don't think you should the have the right to kill someone who was
stealing your stuff
You do if you life in Texas. I think all they have to do is step foot
on your property.
To me that's not a good thing
Believe me, I agree. The father of one of my husband's friends shot and
killed burglar that had gotten into their house. If that happened in my
neck of the woods, the burglar's family would have sued and won.
Well, this is one area I'm solidly Texan and Southern. Break into
somebody's house, you deserve what you get.
The rule is: "don't break into peoples' houses." It's just not so hard a
rule to follow.
I'm sorry but I grew up in one of those areas in Texas everybody thinks
they know something about. Rural, everybody had guns. People also left
their keys in their cars, never remembered to lock their doors, and talked
for twenty years about THE murder.
I grew up where nobody locked their cars or houses and talked for
twenty years about THE rape and nobody had guns.
It's the area, not the guns.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Advice to Britons on Self-Defense |
11 Dec 2004 09:47:18 AM |
|
|
In our last episode <41bd1218.87991328@news-west.newscene.com>, Kate lept
out of the bushes shouting:
On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 09:02:20 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
In our last episode <3208i6F3h6625U1@individual.net>, Robibnikoff lept
out of the bushes shouting:
"kathryn" <bob@bob.com> wrote in message
news:cpd86c$58v$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:31u9jrF3c72ikU1@individual.net...
"kathryn" <bob@bob.com> wrote in message
news:cpcqtj$h47$1@titan.btinternet.com...
snip
You should probably add that he shot and killed one of the
intruders. I don't think you should the have the right to kill
someone who was stealing your stuff
You do if you life in Texas. I think all they have to do is step
foot on your property.
To me that's not a good thing
Believe me, I agree. The father of one of my husband's friends shot and
killed burglar that had gotten into their house. If that happened in
my neck of the woods, the burglar's family would have sued and won.
Well, this is one area I'm solidly Texan and Southern. Break into
somebody's house, you deserve what you get.
The rule is: "don't break into peoples' houses." It's just not so hard a
rule to follow.
I'm sorry but I grew up in one of those areas in Texas everybody thinks
they know something about. Rural, everybody had guns. People also left
their keys in their cars, never remembered to lock their doors, and
talked for twenty years about THE murder.
I grew up where nobody locked their cars or houses and talked for twenty
years about THE rape and nobody had guns.
It's the area, not the guns.
Uh huh.
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Being surprised at the fact that the universe
is fine tuned for life is akin to a puddle being
surprised at how well it fits its hole"
-- Douglas Adams
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "wbarwell" |
|
| Title: Re: Advice to Britons on Self-Defense |
11 Dec 2004 09:33:16 AM |
|
|
Robibnikoff wrote:
"kathryn" <bob@bob.com> wrote in message
news:cpd86c$58v$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:31u9jrF3c72ikU1@individual.net...
"kathryn" <bob@bob.com> wrote in message
news:cpcqtj$h47$1@titan.btinternet.com...
snip
You should probably add that he shot and killed one of the intruders.
I don't think you should the have the right to kill someone who was
stealing your stuff
You do if you life in Texas. I think all they have to do is step foot
on your property.
To me that's not a good thing
Believe me, I agree. The father of one of my husband's friends shot and
killed burglar that had gotten into their house. If that happened in my
neck of the woods, the burglar's family would have sued and won.
Here in Texas, a few years ago bills werre passed to prevent such lawsuits.
A burglar wounded while on your property cannot sue you in Texas.
--
Apes bad! Dust good!
Apes bad! Dust good!
21st Century American Christianity
in a nutshell.
Cheerful Charlie
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Advice to Britons on Self-Defense |
10 Dec 2004 08:20:32 PM |
|
|
In our last episode <31u9jrF3c72ikU1@individual.net>, Robibnikoff lept out
of the bushes shouting:
"kathryn" <bob@bob.com> wrote in message
news:cpcqtj$h47$1@titan.btinternet.com...
"Rune Børsjø" <buggeroffm@te.com> wrote in message
news:gmnjr0h43to5g0es0c5qvdanvl4b9775pm@4ax.com...
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:01:26 +0000 (UTC), Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
if you attack the burglar, or react in an "over the top" manner, as
was recently illustrated in the case of Tony Martin who shot intruders
in his Norfolk farmhouse, you will inevitably end up on the receiving
end of a prison sentence that will far outstrip that imposed on the
intruder in your own home.
"Political prisoner Tony Martin has been released at last after more
than three years inside for the crime of self defence. The Criminal
Justice system managed to delay his release again, on the grounds of
the risk he posed to members of Britain's burgling community as they
went about their daily labours.
An independent report reveals police numbers have fallen under labour.
Norfolk has one of the lowest levels of officers per head of
population.
Showing great moral courage, Mr Martin again refused to show the
required degree of repentance which could have earned him a release
last year.
One of the three criminals who targeted Tony Martin has been granted
legal aid to sue him for 'loss of earnings'. The poor man has since
been scraping a living dealing heroin to keep body and soul together."
You should probably add that he shot and killed one of the intruders. I
don't think you should the have the right to kill someone who was
stealing your stuff
You do if you life in Texas. I think all they have to do is step foot on
your property.
No, that's not true. You have to be defending yourself, your family, or
your property. Just somebody being *on your property isn't going to cut it.
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Being surprised at the fact that the universe
is fine tuned for life is akin to a puddle being
surprised at how well it fits its hole"
-- Douglas Adams
.
|
|
|
| User: "Rune Børsjø" |
|
| Title: Re: Advice to Britons on Self-Defense |
11 Dec 2004 02:55:19 AM |
|
|
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 20:20:32 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
No, that's not true. You have to be defending yourself, your family, or
your property. Just somebody being *on your property isn't going to cut it.
So if someone tries to steal your mailbox or gardenhose, you've got
carte blanche to kill them?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Advice to Britons on Self-Defense |
11 Dec 2004 07:53:30 AM |
|
|
In our last episode <7edlr0t84e3h03h5338tj6lh5i4ovsulu0@4ax.com>, Rune
Børsjø lept out of the bushes shouting:
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 20:20:32 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
No, that's not true. You have to be defending yourself, your family, or
your property. Just somebody being *on your property isn't going to cut
it.
So if someone tries to steal your mailbox or gardenhose, you've got carte
blanche to kill them?
You don't ever have "carte blanche" to kill anybody. No matter *what*
people's stereotype of Texas is, that's just not true. There is more of a
presumption on the side of the property owner but pull a stunt like shoot
somebody in the *back, you're going to need a lawyer.
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Being surprised at the fact that the universe
is fine tuned for life is akin to a puddle being
surprised at how well it fits its hole"
-- Douglas Adams
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "wbarwell" |
|
| Title: Re: Advice to Britons on Self-Defense |
11 Dec 2004 07:32:19 AM |
|
|
Rune Børsjø wrote:
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 20:20:32 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
No, that's not true. You have to be defending yourself, your family, or
your property. Just somebody being *on your property isn't going to cut
it.
So if someone tries to steal your mailbox or gardenhose, you've got
carte blanche to kill them?
Pretty much so, yes. A few years ago, a man in Dallas shot a
thief stealing wheels off his pickup truck parked in his driveway.
He was no billed by a grand jury.
After dark in Texas, you are pretty much fair game if you
are on somebody else's property stealing.
--
Apes bad! Dust good!
Apes bad! Dust good!
21st Century American Christianity
in a nutshell.
Cheerful Charlie
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Rune Børsjø" |
|
| Title: Re: Advice to Britons on Self-Defense |
11 Dec 2004 02:54:15 AM |
|
|
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 13:52:45 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
You do if you life in Texas. I think all they have to do is step foot on
your property.
Heh, you can't shoot someone here unless they actually try to enter
your house. And then you're supposed to try to do a citizen arrest,
and if that fails, you're supposed to try to wound them. Even if you
kill them, you'd be charged with involuntary manslaughter, and the
state attornouey would have a tough time get a convinction due to the
facts in the case, and that anyone who has their home invaded can
claim that they felt fear for their life.
.
|
|
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
|
| Title: Re: Advice to Britons on Self-Defense |
11 Dec 2004 06:02:26 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 09:54:15 +0100, Rune Børsjø <buggeroffm@te.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 13:52:45 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
You do if you life in Texas. I think all they have to do is step foot on
your property.
Heh, you can't shoot someone here unless they actually try to enter
your house. And then you're supposed to try to do a citizen arrest,
and if that fails, you're supposed to try to wound them. Even if you
kill them, you'd be charged with involuntary manslaughter, and the
state attornouey would have a tough time get a convinction due to the
facts in the case, and that anyone who has their home invaded can
claim that they felt fear for their life.
Of course shooting somebody, whatever the reason must be investigated
by the Police, that is their duty and it may even be necessary for
their to be trial to establish in law that such bodily harm or even
death was lawful. Trails established innocence as well as guilt
Les Hellawell
greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
.
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