| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"david" |
| Date: |
30 Jan 2005 03:44:08 AM |
| Object: |
AI is educated programmed idiocy... |
Al Klein wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 19:51:21 -0900, david <dgordon@ak.net> said in
alt.atheism:
This line of questioning should lead one to ask who/what created the
first set of parents...
Do you know the answer?
The first parent wasn't part of a set. It was probably part of an RNA
molecule. Or something even simpler. It depends on your definition
of "alive".
hmmmm...the first parent, wasn't part of a set...instead, it was
probably part of an rna molecule or something even simpler...
hmmmm...who/what created this rna molecule that contains, according to
God-less monied scientific dogmalogic, the building blocks of life?
Are you asking about the definition of "alive" as it relates to AI
derived from the engineering/programming/splicing of d/rna to become
what God-less AI machines program d/rna to be for the good of the AI
machinery at your expense?
If so, I have a question for you. Is life that exists on its own before
tha advent of AI the same as life that is kept alive for the purpose of
enabling the growth of AI machines? Can AI machines create life from
nothing, or do AI machines merely take hostage what God has created that
enables AI machines to think that they think all on their own?
If so, would this not make AI guilty of genetic terrorism?
Are machines that draw existence from a creation of God simply parasites
on God's creations? I would postulate the answer to be a resounding yes.
Any opinions?
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| User: "NUNIA" |
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| Title: Re: AI is educated programmed idiocy... |
30 Jan 2005 07:28:21 AM |
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"david" <dgordon@ak.net> wrote in message news:41FC5808.1070203@ak.net...
Al Klein wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 19:51:21 -0900, david <dgordon@ak.net> said in
alt.atheism:
This line of questioning should lead one to ask who/what created the
first set of parents...
Do you know the answer?
The first parent wasn't part of a set. It was probably part of an RNA
molecule. Or something even simpler. It depends on your definition
of "alive".
hmmmm...the first parent, wasn't part of a set...instead, it was
probably part of an rna molecule or something even simpler...
hmmmm...who/what created this rna molecule that contains, according to
God-less monied scientific dogmalogic, the building blocks of life?
Are you asking about the definition of "alive" as it relates to AI
derived from the engineering/programming/splicing of d/rna to become
what God-less AI machines program d/rna to be for the good of the AI
machinery at your expense?
If so, I have a question for you. Is life that exists on its own before
tha advent of AI the same as life that is kept alive for the purpose of
enabling the growth of AI machines? Can AI machines create life from
nothing, or do AI machines merely take hostage what God has created that
enables AI machines to think that they think all on their own?
If so, would this not make AI guilty of genetic terrorism?
Are machines that draw existence from a creation of God simply parasites
on God's creations? I would postulate the answer to be a resounding yes.
Any opinions?
my opinion is that YOUR A FUCKING MORON.
if you need a second opinion ask me again......................
--
religion is for the idiotic masse's.
you have got to be stupid to believe in
such massive horse-*****!
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: AI is educated programmed idiocy... |
30 Jan 2005 04:04:34 AM |
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In our last episode <41FC5808.1070203@ak.net>, david lumbered into the
room and mumbled:
hmmmm...who/what created
There was no "creation."
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
-- Seneca the Younger
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| User: "Wordsmith" |
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| Title: Re: AI is educated programmed idiocy... |
30 Jan 2005 07:02:03 AM |
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If there was no creation, then matter is eternal.
W : )
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| User: "ScotMc" |
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| Title: Re: AI is educated programmed idiocy... |
31 Jan 2005 05:26:24 PM |
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"Wordsmith" <wordsmith@rocketmail.com> wrote in message
news:1107068087.633555.268280@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
If there was no creation, then matter is eternal.
Analogy:
(1) If a snowflake was not created then that snowflake must be eternal.
(2) Snowflakes are not eternal. They are formed in clouds and when
they melt they cease to be.
(3) Snowflakes are "created" but not by some sentient thinking being.
Snowflakes occur naturally thanks to the physical properties of water
and the physical laws of the universe.
So, if we accept that snowflakes are created by natural forces it is
equally reasonable to accept that matter was "created" by equally
natural forces.
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| User: "Wordsmith" |
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| Title: Re: AI is educated programmed idiocy... |
31 Jan 2005 05:38:03 PM |
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Stacking natural forces upon natural forces higher and higher up the
ladder of generality leads nowhere. At what point does the
natural force ladder end? You can't have an infinite regression of
natural forces.
W : )
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: AI is educated programmed idiocy... |
01 Feb 2005 01:19:45 PM |
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In our last episode
<1107193083.774003.62760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, Wordsmith lumbered
into the room and mumbled:
Stacking natural forces upon natural forces higher and higher up the
ladder of generality leads nowhere. At what point does the natural force
ladder end? You can't have an infinite regression of natural forces.
Why not? Not saying there is, we don't know. But why couldn't there be
natural forces all the way?
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
-- Seneca the Younger
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| User: "Tukla Ratte" |
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| Title: Re: AI is educated programmed idiocy... |
31 Jan 2005 07:32:15 PM |
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Wordsmith wrote:
Stacking natural forces upon natural forces higher and higher up the
ladder of generality leads nowhere. At what point does the
natural force ladder end? You can't have an infinite regression of
natural forces.
Educate yourself. Go to your library and check out a book about the
Inflationary Model of the Big Bang. Keywords: "symmetry breaking" and
maybe "Higgs Field".
--
Tukla, Eater of Theists, Squeaker of Chew Toys
Official Mascot of Alt.Atheism, aa 1347
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| User: "Wordsmith" |
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| Title: Re: AI is educated programmed idiocy... |
31 Jan 2005 10:49:37 PM |
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Broken symmetry must be replaced with something. Oh...don't choke on
those theists you eat.
W : )
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| User: "Tukla Ratte" |
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| Title: Re: AI is educated programmed idiocy... |
01 Feb 2005 10:18:14 PM |
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Wordsmith wrote:
Broken symmetry must be replaced with something.
Huh?
Oh...don't choke on
those theists you eat.
Yeah, like I'm going to start chewing. <snicker>
--
Tukla, Eater of Theists, Squeaker of Chew Toys
Official Mascot of Alt.Atheism, aa 1347
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| User: "Uncle Buck" |
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| Title: Re: AI is educated programmed idiocy... |
01 Feb 2005 01:02:27 AM |
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Wordsmith wrote:
Stacking natural forces upon natural forces higher and higher up the
ladder of generality leads nowhere. At what point does the
natural force ladder end? You can't have an infinite regression of
natural forces.
What is the reasoning behind your last statement? Not implying that
there isn't any, just that seeing the groups this is posted to, I'm
assuming you probably _do_ have some actual rationale you're following
to arrive at that conclusion. Something philosophical, perhaps? :-?
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| User: "ScotMc" |
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| Title: Re: AI is educated programmed idiocy... |
31 Jan 2005 09:21:04 PM |
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snipped out text restored
Analogy:
(1) If a snowflake was not created then that snowflake must be eternal.
(2) Snowflakes are not eternal. They are formed in clouds and when
they melt they cease to be.
(3) Snowflakes are "created" but not by some sentient thinking being.
Snowflakes occur naturally thanks to the physical properties of water
and the physical laws of the universe.
So, if we accept that snowflakes are created by natural forces it is
equally reasonable to accept that matter was "created" by equally
natural forces.
"Wordsmith" <wordsmith@rocketmail.com> wrote in message
news:1107193083.774003.62760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Stacking natural forces upon natural forces higher and higher up the
ladder of generality leads nowhere. At what point does the
natural force ladder end? You can't have an infinite regression of
natural forces.
I never said anything about an infinite regresson of natural forces.
Your response would therefore quality as an attack on a strawman.
I'm willing to say that we currently don't have a complete natural
explanation for the origins of the universe but I think it is worthwhile
looking for such an explanation. You seem to be convinced that
no such explanation is possible. So... should we throw our hands
up in the air and declare "God did it?" right now? or should
we continue our pursuit of knowledge a little further?
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| User: "Wordsmith" |
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| Title: Re: AI is educated programmed idiocy... |
31 Jan 2005 10:46:00 PM |
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Appreciate the clarification. No, I'm not quite at the theological
default position yet, but I do want to explore more avenues which are
available to us in the natural realm. Thanks again.
W : )
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: AI is educated programmed idiocy... |
01 Feb 2005 02:53:33 AM |
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On 31 Jan 2005 14:46:00 -0800, "Wordsmith" <wordsmith@rocketmail.com>
said in alt.atheism:
Appreciate the clarification. No, I'm not quite at the theological
default position yet, but I do want to explore more avenues which are
available to us in the natural realm.
First step would be a thorough education in physics and cosmology.
About 10-20 years of PostDoc work might get you close.
--
"A stupid man's report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he
unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand."
-- Bertrand Russell.
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "Tukla Ratte" |
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| Title: Re: AI is educated programmed idiocy... |
01 Feb 2005 10:25:40 PM |
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Al Klein wrote:
On 31 Jan 2005 14:46:00 -0800, "Wordsmith" <wordsmith@rocketmail.com>
said in alt.atheism:
Appreciate the clarification. No, I'm not quite at the theological
default position yet, but I do want to explore more avenues which are
available to us in the natural realm.
First step would be a thorough education in physics and cosmology.
About 10-20 years of PostDoc work might get you close.
And then he'd have to figure out how to mathematically describe
something that exists "outside" of nature.
--
Tukla, Eater of Theists, Squeaker of Chew Toys
Official Mascot of Alt.Atheism, aa 1347
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| User: "Wordsmith" |
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| Title: Re: AI is educated programmed idiocy... |
02 Feb 2005 12:22:30 AM |
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If it's outside of or beyond nature, that's a topic for theology. I'd
like to exhaust all the natural paths first. And we're not even close
to hitting that boundary.
W : )
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| User: "Tukla Ratte" |
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| Title: Re: AI is educated programmed idiocy... |
02 Feb 2005 04:05:31 PM |
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Wordsmith wrote:
If it's outside of or beyond nature, that's a topic for theology. I'd
like to exhaust all the natural paths first. And we're not even close
to hitting that boundary.
Then Al's right, and you've got a lot of work ahead of you.
--
Tukla, Eater of Theists, Squeaker of Chew Toys
Official Mascot of Alt.Atheism, aa 1347
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| User: "Wordsmith" |
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| Title: Re: AI is educated programmed idiocy... |
02 Feb 2005 07:40:26 PM |
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"AI's right" smacks of a dogmatism all its own. Do you genuflect to
your computer?
W : )
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| User: "Tukla Ratte" |
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| Title: Re: AI is educated programmed idiocy... |
03 Feb 2005 07:37:32 PM |
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Wordsmith wrote:
"AI's right" smacks of a dogmatism all its own. Do you genuflect to
your computer?
That was a joke, right?
--
Tukla, Eater of Theists, Squeaker of Chew Toys
Official Mascot of Alt.Atheism, aa 1347
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| User: "Wordsmith" |
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| Title: Re: AI is educated programmed idiocy... |
04 Feb 2005 01:57:38 AM |
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Only the second sentence.
W : )
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: AI is educated programmed idiocy... |
03 Feb 2005 08:50:07 PM |
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Tukla Ratte wrote:
Wordsmith wrote:
"AI's right" smacks of a dogmatism all its own. Do you genuflect to
your computer?
That was a joke, right?
Yeah, you have to prostrate yourself or you get nothing.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: AI is educated programmed idiocy... |
02 Feb 2005 12:15:14 AM |
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On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 16:25:40 -0600, Tukla Ratte
<tukla_ratte@tukla.net> said in alt.atheism:
Al Klein wrote:
On 31 Jan 2005 14:46:00 -0800, "Wordsmith" <wordsmith@rocketmail.com>
said in alt.atheism:
Appreciate the clarification. No, I'm not quite at the theological
default position yet, but I do want to explore more avenues which are
available to us in the natural realm.
First step would be a thorough education in physics and cosmology.
About 10-20 years of PostDoc work might get you close.
And then he'd have to figure out how to mathematically describe
something that exists "outside" of nature.
Especially since, if it does, it isn't.
--
Zymurgist # 2
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "ScotMc" |
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| Title: Re: AI is educated programmed idiocy... |
31 Jan 2005 05:39:13 PM |
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On 30 Jan 2005 12:09:56 -0800, "Wordsmith" <wordsmith@rocketmail.com>
said in alt.atheism:
All right, if matter is not eternal and it wasn't created by a
benevolent deity, then how did it come about?
Possibility (1) (A deity was involved but that deity isn't benevolent.)
Matter was created by a malevolent deity.
(You are only assuming that the deity is benevolent.)
Possibility (2) (Only natural forces were involved.)
Matter occurs naturally.
(Do snowflakes occur naturally? Or do you claim that
there is a deity involved in the creation snowflakes?
Possibility 2b You want to conceptualize the natural forces
as being a "deity". That would make you a pantheist.)
I think that covers all remaining possibilities.
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| User: "Prism" |
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| Title: Re: AI is educated programmed idiocy... |
01 Feb 2005 02:44:52 AM |
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"ScotMc" <scotmc@SPAMBLOCKoptonline.net> wrote in
news:U3uLd.6328$pU2.2110@fe12.lga:
On 30 Jan 2005 12:09:56 -0800, "Wordsmith" <wordsmith@rocketmail.com>
said in alt.atheism:
All right, if matter is not eternal and it wasn't created by a
benevolent deity, then how did it come about?
Possibility (1) (A deity was involved but that deity isn't
benevolent.) Matter was created by a malevolent deity.
(You are only assuming that the deity is benevolent.)
Possibility (2) (Only natural forces were involved.)
Matter occurs naturally.
(Do snowflakes occur naturally? Or do you claim that
there is a deity involved in the creation snowflakes?
Possibility 2b You want to conceptualize the natural
forces as being a "deity". That would make you a
pantheist.)
I think that covers all remaining possibilities.
Possibility (3) (there is no matter)
Matter doesn't matter
(the hallucination continues, naturally)
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: AI is educated programmed idiocy... |
01 Feb 2005 02:54:56 AM |
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On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 12:39:13 -0500, "ScotMc"
<scotmc@SPAMBLOCKoptonline.net> said in alt.atheism:
On 30 Jan 2005 12:09:56 -0800, "Wordsmith" <wordsmith@rocketmail.com>
said in alt.atheism:
All right, if matter is not eternal and it wasn't created by a
benevolent deity, then how did it come about?
Possibility (1) (A deity was involved but that deity isn't benevolent.)
Matter was created by a malevolent deity.
(You are only assuming that the deity is benevolent.)
Possibility (2) (Only natural forces were involved.)
Matter occurs naturally.
(Do snowflakes occur naturally? Or do you claim that
there is a deity involved in the creation snowflakes?
Possibility 2b You want to conceptualize the natural forces
as being a "deity". That would make you a pantheist.)
I think that covers all remaining possibilities.
Possibility (2c) Something you haven't thought of.
Possibility (2d) Something we don't know enough to think of yet.
--
"They laughed at Newton, they laughed at Einstein, but they also laughed at
Bozo the Clown."
- Carl Sagan
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: AI is educated programmed idiocy... |
30 Jan 2005 12:44:21 PM |
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In our last episode
<1107068087.633555.268280@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Wordsmith
lumbered into the room and mumbled:
If there was no creation, then matter is eternal.
Or not.
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
-- Seneca the Younger
.
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| User: "Wordsmith" |
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| Title: Re: AI is educated programmed idiocy... |
30 Jan 2005 08:09:56 PM |
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All right, if matter is not eternal and it wasn't created by a
benevolent deity, then how did it come about?
W : )
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: AI is educated programmed idiocy... |
31 Jan 2005 07:27:47 AM |
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On 30 Jan 2005 12:09:56 -0800, "Wordsmith" <wordsmith@rocketmail.com>
said in alt.atheism:
All right, if matter is not eternal and it wasn't created by a
benevolent deity, then how did it come about?
Glitch in the quantum foam?
--
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived."
- Isaac Asimov
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: AI is educated programmed idiocy... |
31 Jan 2005 01:43:18 PM |
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In our last episode <7fnrv01i9npb0urp48mffkf62jujonrg73@4ax.com>, Al Klein
lumbered into the room and mumbled:
On 30 Jan 2005 12:09:56 -0800, "Wordsmith" <wordsmith@rocketmail.com> said
in alt.atheism:
All right, if matter is not eternal and it wasn't created by a benevolent
deity, then how did it come about?
Glitch in the quantum foam?
Quantum fart?
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
-- Seneca the Younger
.
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| User: "Dubh Ghall" |
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| Title: Re: AI is educated programmed idiocy... |
31 Jan 2005 01:30:33 PM |
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On 30 Jan 2005 12:09:56 -0800, "Wordsmith" <wordsmith@rocketmail.com>
said in alt.atheism:
All right, if matter is not eternal and it wasn't created by a
benevolent deity, then how did it come about?
How should I know?
--
Puck Greenman
The spelling Like any opinion stated here
purely my own
#162 BAAWA Knight.
Plonked by Rob Duncan
January 27th
Na bister 500,000
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| User: "Uncle Buck" |
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| Title: Re: AI is educated programmed idiocy... |
30 Jan 2005 10:46:37 PM |
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Wordsmith wrote:
All right, if matter is not eternal and it wasn't created by a
benevolent deity, then how did it come about?
W : )
Still looking into how it came about, but as for the "eternal" part, you
don't know much about physics, do you? Matter decays. The entire
cosmos is decaying. Granted, quite slowly, but it won't be around forever.
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