AIG sentence(s) here you disagree with?



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "david ford"
Date: 07 Aug 2006 09:28:45 PM
Object: AIG sentence(s) here you disagree with?
Mark Isaak wrote in "Re: CA006.2: Stalin's policies were influenced by
Darwin":

Thanks for the comments. Here is a revised version.

Claim CA006.2: Stalin's policies were influenced by Darwin.

Stalin accepted Darwinian evolution, which he used to justify oppression
and murder.

Source:

AiG, 1988. What happened when Stalin read Darwin? _Creation_ 10(4)
(September): 23.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v10/i4/stalin.asp

Response:

1. Stalin rejected neo-Darwinian evolution in favor of Lamarckism.

Do you agree with this proposition?:
Stalin rejected neo-Darwinian evolution in favor of Lamarckian
evolution.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Stalin's contributions to science
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=b1c67abe.0406212039.69fbcce1%40posting.google.com
Stalin encounters the T0E in seminary: A Victory for Atheism
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1118511187.489582.241590%40g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com

"Mendeleyev's "periodic system of elements" clearly shows how very
important in the history of nature is the emergence of *qualitative*
changes out of *quantitative* changes. The same thing is shown in
biology by the theory of neo-Lamarckism, to which neo-Darwinism is
yielding place. (Stalin 1906, 304)

[1906 Stalin]"Mendeleyev's 'periodic system of elements'"
[1915 William Bateson]"We are just about where Boyle was in the
seventeenth century. We can dispose of Alchemy, but we can not make
more than a quasi-chemistry. We are awaiting our Priestly and our
Mendeleeff."
http://groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=b1c67abe.0405161853.5f28f100%40posting.google.com
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
[1963 Ehrlich and Holm]"it is conceivable, even likely, that what one
might facetiously call a non-Euclidean theory of evolution lies over
the horizon"
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=Pine.SGI.3.96.980608234330.51A-100000%40umbc8.umbc.edu
1978 Rosen: the phrase
"'natural selection'" ought be "stripped from our technical
vocabulary,"
and the theory "sen[t]... off to join the ether, phlogiston, and
noxious
vapors."
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=Pine.SGI.3.96A.980913231459.8446A-100000%40umbc8.umbc.edu
1979 Futuyma: "ultra-modern synthesis" needed
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=Pine.SGI.3.96A.990307202439.1296706B-100000%40umbc9.umbc.edu
[1996 Gilbert, Opitz, & Raff]"Population genetics is destined to change
if it is not to become as irrelevant to evolution as Newtonian
mechanics is to contemporary physics."
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=Pine.SGI.3.96.980602230744.671C-100000%40umbc8.umbc.edu

More specifically, Stalin rejected the ideas of August Weismann, a
19th-century German biologist, in favor of Trofim Lysenko, a
pseudoscientist who based his ideas on Lamarckism. Weismann, who
accepted Darwin's theory of evolution, disproved Lamarckism and
proposed that germ cells pass on hereditary information; his work was
an early variant of the modern evolutionary synthesis which unites
evolutionary theory with genetics.

"Weismann, who accepted Darwin's theory of evolution...; his work was
an early variant of the modern evolutionary synthesis which unites
evolutionary theory with genetics."
historical background to rise and fall of the Synthetic Euphoria; 1936
A. Franklin Shull
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=b1c67abe.0403271329.1e569adf%40posting.google.com
1893 Weismann
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=Pine.LNX.4.10A.B3.9911282317410.13320-100000%40jabba.gl.umbc.edu

Stalin appointed Lysenko head of
the Academy of Agricultural Sciences of the Soviet Union, where he had
great political power. (Rossiannov 1993)

Stalin and Lysenko rejected evolution and genetics for ideological, not
biological, reasons. (Stalin was quite ignorant of science in
general.)

"Stalin and Lysenko rejected evolution"
Meaning of "evolution"?
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
legerdemain in the use of the word 'evolution'
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1132102419.915797.111840%40o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com
Stalin encounters the T0E in seminary: A Victory for Atheism
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1118511187.489582.241590%40g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com

The class struggle of Marxism contradicts the individual
competition implied by natural selection. More importantly, genetics,
implying that traits were fixed at birth, contradicted the ideal of
moulding and improving traits. Stalin proclaimed genetics a capitalist
pseudo-science.

2. Stalin was, first and foremost, a Marxist dictator, far above any
allegiance he might have had to any theories concerning the origin of
species, whether Lamarckian or Darwinian. Stalin distrusted scientists
as being prone to free-thinking. Though his persecution of biologists
and biology were particularly egregious (causing appalling damage to
Soviet agriculture), he imprisoned and killed thousands of scientists
and engineers from all fields.

3. Oppression and murder have been used as tools of statecraft long before
Darwin published his work.

4. There is no evidence that Darwin's work was used as a justification for
oppression and murder.

Draft 2 of a chronology of Darwinian thought and the march to the Final
Solution
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1122434358.640904.162640%40z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com
Hitler & Darwin URLs
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1140576033.123225.228290%40o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com
is Darwin, or Hitler, today's most-famous Darwinist?
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1138681336.761356.170100%40z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com

Stalin doubtless accepted Newton's theory of
gravity, but creationists do not claim that Newton's theory should be
suppressed because Stalin believed it.

"Newton's"
Newton was a creationist regarding biology.
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-3877igF5kk9siU2%40individual.net

Links:

References:

1. Rossianov, Kirill. 1993. Stalin as Lysenko's Editor: Reshaping Political
Discourse in Soviet Science, Configurations - Volume 1, Number 3, Fall
1993, pp. 439-456, The Johns Hopkins University Press. Online at
http://muse.jhu.edu/cgi-bin/access.cgi?uri=/journals/configurations/v001/1.3rossianov.html
and http://cyber.eserver.org/stalin.txt.

2. Stalin, Josef V. 1906. Anarchism or Socialism? In _Collected Works_,
vol. 1, Moscow: Foreign Languages Publishing House, 1954.
http://www.marx2mao.com/Stalin/AS07.html

Further Reading:

Elsberry, Wesley R. and Mark Perakh, n.d. How Intelligent Design
advocates turn the sordid lessons from Soviet and Nazi history upside
down. http://www.talkreason.org/articles/eandp.cfm

Say, Mark, do you see any AIG sentences below you disagree with?
From
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v10/i4/stalin.asp
"What happened when Stalin read Darwin?"
Russian dictator and revolutionist, Joseph Stalin (1879-1953), is
regarded as one of the most notable men in Russian history. He was
also one of the most influential in world affairs in the periods
immediately before and after the Second World War.
But early in his life Stalin experienced a dramatic change of career.
While studying at the Tiflis Theological Seminary, he began to read the
works of Charles Darwin. He developed a critical mind and
revolutionary bent. One of his friends later said in a book-- which
was published in Moscow while Stalin was still in power-- that when
Stalin began to read Darwin he became an atheist. At the age of 19, in
1898, Stalin was expelled from the theological seminary because of his
revolutionary connections.
His newly acquired philosophy did enormous damage in the years that
followed. But he gained political prominence. All the major policies
of the Soviet State after 1928 were formulated by Stalin. He
established a terrorist police State, and in the mid-1930s instituted
the notorious trials in which most of the surviving Bolshevik leaders
were found guilty of treachery and executed.
One of Stalin's most notable characteristics, according to many of his
biographers, was his approval of the cult of 'Stalinist adoration'.
Instances of this idolatry included the official dedication of cities
to him (such as Stalingrad, Staliniri and Stalinogorsk), and the
ceremonial homage given to him in virtually all public speeches and in
print.
In February, 1956, three years after Stalin's death, Communist Party
leader Nikita Khrushchev charged Stalin with perpetrating 'mass arrests
and deportations of many thousands of people, execution without trial
and without normal investigation.' Khrushchev also stated that during
Stalin's reign 70 per cent of the members and candidates of the party
central committee in 1934 were subsequently arrested and shot. Most of
these, claimed Khrushchev, were simply 'innocent communists'.
Darwinian 'survival of the fittest' ideas thus powerfully shaped
Stalin's approach to society.
Oppression, self glorification, atheism and murder resulted from
Stalin's rejection of his Creator after reading and believing the
evolutionary ideas of Darwin. And the most tragic aspect of all? That
while Stalin was turning his back on his Creator, he was building his
philosophy on a lie.
References
1. Bolton Davidheiser, Evolution and Christian Faith, Presbyterian
and Reformed Publishing Company, 1969, pp. 353-4. (cf Sir Arthur
Keith's observation of Hitler: 'The German Fuhrer ... consciously
sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of
evolution' (Arthur Keith, Evolution and Ethics, Putnam's, New York,
1949, p. 230).)
2. E. Yaroslavsky, Landmarks in the Life of Stalin, Foreign
Languages Publishing House, Moscow, 1940, p. 8 (quoted in Davidheiser).
3. Conway Zirkle, Evolution, Marxian Biology, and tire Social Scene,
University of Pennsylvania Press, 1959, p. 24. Funk and Wagnalls
Standard Reference Encyclopedia, Standard Reference Library, Inc., New
York, vol. 22, pp. 8205-7.
4. New Age Encyclopaedia, D.A. Girling (ed.), Bay Books, Sydney,
vol. 27, pp. 99-100. Who Did What, Gallery Books, New York, 1985, p.
228.
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
become like famous mass-killer atheists, and have others worship you
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1152629227.581932.229990%40s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
threatened and actual use of force by atheism-adherents
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1135396265.419462.311690%40g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
"Killer icon" Mao
http://www.washingtontimes.com/culture/20060223-114212-7889r.htm
That's a snippet of
"Red Emperor" Mao, by Henrik Bering
http://www.policyreview.org/135/bering.html
Gould, John Maynard Smith, J.B.S. Haldane, and Richard Lewontin were
Marxists; 2004 R.J. Rummel's "The killing machine that is Marxism"
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-32gfjsF3l6o15U1%40individual.net
Stalin's contributions to science
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=b1c67abe.0406212039.69fbcce1%40posting.google.com
Stalin encounters the T0E in seminary: A Victory for Atheism
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1118511187.489582.241590%40g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
Hitler encounters the T0E as a child: A Victory for Atheism
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1118403178.860854.170600%40g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
Multi-Pronged Role of Darwinian Thought in Shoah's Arrival
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1132080322.482544.299440%40g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
Hitler's actions make sense given his atheism and eugenic, social
Darwinist vision
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1134145559.645139.229550%40f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com
.

User: "Ron Baker, Pluralitas!"

Title: Re: AIG sentence(s) here you disagree with? 07 Aug 2006 09:41:17 PM
"david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in message
news:dford3-1155004125.699363.57790@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
So Dave, what are your other hobbies besides
trolling the usenet?
--
rb #2187
.
User: "david ford"

Title: Re: AIG sentence(s) here you disagree with? 08 Aug 2006 11:38:08 AM
Ron Baker, Pluralitas! wrote:

"david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in message
news:dford3-1155004125.699363.57790@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

So Dave, what are your other hobbies besides
trolling the usenet?

I decline to answer. I will, though, say what's below.
I see no problem with a man doing this:
chase numerous women, make use of numerous women, and discard numerous
women for other, prettier or more interesting women that might happen
to appear.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
1999 Paul Vitz on personal convenience; 2002 Benjamin Wiker
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-35qe6lF4orjsoU1%40individual.net
the question of accountability/ autonomy favors conversion to atheism
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1137184204.545825.116810%40f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com
atheism-adherent Sartre: "everything is permissible if God does not
exist"
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1148953550.334506.168420%40j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
There's no need to restrain one's sexual impulses.
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1143038072.680883.42950%40e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com
views of atheism-adherent Singer
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1141777876.224926.284110%40j52g2000cwj.googlegroups.com
Is infanticide "evil"?; Reagan; Nordau
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1131387293.922571.147570%40f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com
.
User: "John Baker"

Title: Re: AIG sentence(s) here you disagree with? 08 Aug 2006 07:36:56 PM
On 8 Aug 2006 09:38:08 -0700, "david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote:

Ron Baker, Pluralitas! wrote:

"david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in message
news:dford3-1155004125.699363.57790@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

So Dave, what are your other hobbies besides
trolling the usenet?


I decline to answer. I will, though, say what's below.

So that's a 'no', then?
.
User: "david ford"

Title: women as disposable sex toys 09 Aug 2006 08:57:42 AM
John Baker wrote in "Re: AIG sentence(s) here you disagree with?"

On 8 Aug 2006 09:38:08 -0700, "david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote:

Ron Baker, Pluralitas! wrote:

"david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in message
news:dford3-1155004125.699363.57790@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

So Dave, what are your other hobbies besides
trolling the usenet?


I decline to answer. I will, though, say what's below.

That being:
I see no problem with a man doing this:
chase numerous women, make use of numerous women, and discard numerous
women for other, prettier or more interesting women that might happen
to appear.

So that's a 'no', then?

Q: [RB]"So Dave, what are your other hobbies besides trolling the
usenet?"
A: [df]"I decline to answer. I will, though,...."
Not only are women disposable sex toys, in my view, but in addition,
unwanted pre-born human life is disposable-- I fully support killings
via abortion performed for reasons of personal convenience.
In my own actions, I treat human life in accordance with the way I view
human life:
as disposable, expendable, usually-ugly bags of mostly water, matter in
motion, the product of mindless blindwatchmaking processes, utterly
lacking in significance in the grand scheme of things.
In an atheistic universe, human life is cheap and completely lacking
any inherent value. That includes the women I briefly use as
highly-realistic sex toys, and unwanted pre-born human life.
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Darwin: "man has ultimately become superior to woman"
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1136580451.809595.42990%40f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com
Aborted Women Speak Out
Women who've had abortions have stories to tell, and they don't fit the
politically correct mold.
http://www.boundless.org/2001/regulars/kaufman/a0000567.html
Is infanticide "evil"?; Reagan; Nordau
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1131387293.922571.147570%40f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com
1999 Paul Vitz on personal convenience; 2002 Benjamin Wiker
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-35qe6lF4orjsoU1%40individual.net
"The Lion, the Witch, and the Great Insult"
http://www.boundless.org/2005/articles/a0001183.cfm
Sub-persons/ sub-humans are expendable.
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1149820884.102362.221630%40u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1139372980.005787.15450%40f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com
1868 Haeckel, 2003 Dawkins, 1997 George Williams, 1995 Dennett:
Darwinist atheists/ materialists downgrading the value of human life
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-399aluF5uql89U1%40individual.net
Haeckel on killing the disabled
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-3a8etdF65smnrU4%40individual.net
Edward Simon, probably originally in his Another Side to the Evolution
Problem, Jewish Press, Jan. 7, 1983, 248,
cited in
http://www.thedarwinpapers.com/oldsite/number12/Darwinpapers12HTML.htm#N_1_
I don't claim that Darwin and his theory of evolution
brought on the holocaust; but I cannot deny that the
theory of evolution, and the atheism it engendered, led to
the moral climate that made a holocaust possible....
atheism-adherent Sartre: "everything is permissible if God does not
exist"
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1148953550.334506.168420%40j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
Reality supports the worldview philosophy of materialism/ atheism
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1149604163.062020.183070%40y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com
On the Origin of Life
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-39oh33F63riraU1%40individual.net
1979 Schaeffer & Koop on the a-moral implications of atheism
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-b1c67abe.0504061225.4c675814%40posting.google.com
.


User: "gregwrld"

Title: Re: AIG sentence(s) here you disagree with? 08 Aug 2006 12:11:19 PM
david ford wrote:

Ron Baker, Pluralitas! wrote:

"david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in message
news:dford3-1155004125.699363.57790@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

So Dave, what are your other hobbies besides
trolling the usenet?


I decline to answer. I will, though, say what's below.

I see no problem with a man doing this:
chase numerous women, make use of numerous women, and discard numerous
women for other, prettier or more interesting women that might happen
to appear.

David, you really, really need to get laid.
Then, just maybe you'll quit jacking-off like this...
.
User: "david ford"

Title: Re: AIG sentence(s) here you disagree with? 09 Aug 2006 08:19:20 AM
gregwrld wrote:

david ford wrote:

Ron Baker, Pluralitas! wrote:

"david ford" <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in message
news:dford3-1155004125.699363.57790@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

So Dave, what are your other hobbies besides
trolling the usenet?


I decline to answer. I will, though, say what's below.

I see no problem with a man doing this:
chase numerous women, make use of numerous women, and discard numerous
women for other, prettier or more interesting women that might happen
to appear.


David, you really, really need to get laid.
Then, just maybe you'll quit jacking-off like this...

Kinsey engaged in masochistic masturbation.
Would you like details?
Kinsey was also a fraudster.
.
User: "Kermit"

Title: Re: AIG sentence(s) here you disagree with? 09 Aug 2006 09:49:23 AM
david ford wrote:

gregwrld wrote:

<snip>


David, you really, really need to get laid.
Then, just maybe you'll quit jacking-off like this...


Kinsey engaged in masochistic masturbation.
Would you like details?

Kinsey was also a fraudster.

Should we assume that your Creationist background has helped make you
what you are today?
Kermit
.
User: "david ford"

Title: Re: AIG sentence(s) here you disagree with? 09 Aug 2006 10:13:48 AM
Kermit wrote:

david ford wrote:

gregwrld wrote:


<snip>

David, you really, really need to get laid.
Then, just maybe you'll quit jacking-off like this...


Kinsey engaged in masochistic masturbation.
Would you like details?

Kinsey was also a fraudster.


Should we assume that your Creationist background has helped make you
what you are today?

"Should we assume that"
Assume whatever you like.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Ford caught in fraud!
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-37eet3F5ecn1tU1%40individual.net
16 June 2006 "Ford Murder Trial Ends With Taped Confession"
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/california/la-me-ford16jun16,1,4992566.story?coll=la-headlines-pe-california
Hitler praises Ford!
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1138285521.918249.243580%40g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
.






User: "wcb"

Title: Re: AIG sentence(s) here you disagree with? 07 Aug 2006 02:27:52 AM
david ford wrote:


Stalin rejected neo-Darwinian evolution in favor of Lamarckian
evolution.


Stalin was anti-Darwinist and supported
Lysenko's crackpot ideas.
Many good Darwinists were sent to prison
in Russia for opposing Lysenko.
What do Ann Coulter and Stalin have in common?
Both were anti-Darwinists.
--
"The world holds two classes of men -- intelligent
men without religion, and religious men without
intelligence".
- Abu'l-Ala-Al-Ma'arri (973-1057; Syrian poet)
Cheerful Charlie
.
User: "david ford"

Title: Re: AIG sentence(s) here you disagree with? 08 Aug 2006 11:47:32 AM
wcb wrote:

david ford wrote:


Stalin rejected neo-Darwinian evolution in favor of Lamarckian
evolution.


Stalin was anti-Darwinist and supported
Lysenko's crackpot ideas.

"Stalin was anti-Darwinist"
Was the atheist Stalin a creationist?
Did the atheist Stalin accept the 'fact of evolution'?
Did the atheist Stalin accept the 'molecules to man' hypothesis?

Many good Darwinists were sent to prison
in Russia for opposing Lysenko.

Names of 2 "good Darwinists," please.

What do Ann Coulter and Stalin have in common?

Several things. E.g., both have "n"s in their names.

Both were anti-Darwinists.

Coulter is a theist.
Stalin was an atheist.
Did Stalin accept the hypothesis of common descent?
Did Stalin accept the blindwatchmaker hypothesis?
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
concept of "blindwatchmaking"
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=b1c67abe.0401101006.38dc8f17%40posting.google.com
Timeline of Materialism, Spontaneous Generation, and Blindwatchmaking
Views
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-348jecF47mfcjU1%40individual.net
.



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