| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"spakka" |
| Date: |
25 May 2004 05:33:48 PM |
| Object: |
Albert Einstein quote |
Grrr. The Christians who gave us the free Gibson film tickets have
reneged on their 'no strings' deal and pushed proselytizing material
through our door. Against my better judgment, I've accepted their
invitation to begin email correspondence. They seem to have their *****
together more than the dreary trolls here, so perhaps they will say
something worth reading. I've been pretty honest with them, so I don't
have any qualms about causing offence.
To get to the point, their leaflet included an alleged Einstein quote:
"No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of
Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled
with such life". Saturday Evening Post October 26 1929.
This is a new one on me. Anyone have the context for it? Google just
turns up Christian propaganda sites.
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: Albert Einstein quote |
26 May 2004 03:37:53 AM |
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On Tue, 25 May 2004 22:33:48 GMT in alt.atheism, spakka (spakka
<usenet_spam@mail.invalid>) said, directing the reply to alt.atheism
Grrr. The Christians who gave us the free Gibson film tickets have
reneged on their 'no strings' deal and pushed proselytizing material
through our door. Against my better judgment, I've accepted their
invitation to begin email correspondence. They seem to have their *****
together more than the dreary trolls here, so perhaps they will say
something worth reading. I've been pretty honest with them, so I don't
have any qualms about causing offence.
To get to the point, their leaflet included an alleged Einstein quote:
"No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of
Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled
with such life". Saturday Evening Post October 26 1929.
This is a new one on me. Anyone have the context for it? Google just
turns up Christian propaganda sites.
Apparently the article was called:
'What Life Meant to Einstein: An Interview by George Sylvester
Viereck', in the October 26, 1929 issue of 'The Saturday Evening
Post'.
One may be able to get an archive copy from:
To order issues of the Post published prior to 1969
Select magazines* published prior to 1969 are available for $50 each.
Please write, call, or email Post Archives to determine availability.
Details here:
http://www.satevepost.org/magazine/issues/archives.shtml
--
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
- Attrib: Pauline Reage.
Inexpensive VHS & other video to CD/DVD conversion?
See: <http://www.Video2CD.com>. 35.00 gets your video on DVD.
all posts to this email address are automatically deleted without being read.
** atheist poster child #1 ** #442.
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| User: "Lord Calvert" |
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| Title: Re: Albert Einstein quote |
26 May 2004 08:20:29 AM |
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Apparently the article was called:
'What Life Meant to Einstein: An Interview by George Sylvester
Viereck', in the October 26, 1929 issue of 'The Saturday Evening
Post'.
And since Viereck was a German propagandist in WWI and later a convicted Nazi
propagandist that would tend to cast a great deal of doubt on the authenticity
of the entire article.
I think the likelyhood of the entire article being a complete fabrication is
pretty high.
Rich Goranson, Amherst, NY, USA (aa#MCMXCIX, a-vet#1)
EAC Department of Applied Rattan Use
"Without faith we might relapse into scientific or rational thinking, which
leads by a slippery slope toward constitutional democracy." - Robert Anton
Wilson
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| User: "Chani" |
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| Title: Re: Albert Einstein quote |
25 May 2004 09:59:36 PM |
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"spakka" <usenet_spam@mail.invalid> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.05.25.22.32.18.555818@mail.invalid...
Grrr. The Christians who gave us the free Gibson film tickets have
reneged on their 'no strings' deal and pushed proselytizing material
through our door. Against my better judgment, I've accepted their
invitation to begin email correspondence. They seem to have their *****
together more than the dreary trolls here, so perhaps they will say
something worth reading. I've been pretty honest with them, so I don't
have any qualms about causing offence.
To get to the point, their leaflet included an alleged Einstein quote:
"No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of
Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled
with such life". Saturday Evening Post October 26 1929.
This is a new one on me. Anyone have the context for it? Google just
turns up Christian propaganda sites.
Here respond with this quote:
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a
lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal
God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something
is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration
for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."
[Albert Einstein, 1954, from "Albert Einstein: The Human Side", edited by
Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press]
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| User: "Chani" |
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| Title: Re: Albert Einstein quote |
25 May 2004 10:09:24 PM |
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"spakka" <usenet_spam@mail.invalid> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.05.25.22.32.18.555818@mail.invalid...
Grrr. The Christians who gave us the free Gibson film tickets have
reneged on their 'no strings' deal and pushed proselytizing material
through our door. Against my better judgment, I've accepted their
invitation to begin email correspondence. They seem to have their *****
together more than the dreary trolls here, so perhaps they will say
something worth reading. I've been pretty honest with them, so I don't
have any qualms about causing offence.
To get to the point, their leaflet included an alleged Einstein quote:
"No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of
Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled
with such life". Saturday Evening Post October 26 1929.
This is a new one on me. Anyone have the context for it? Google just
turns up Christian propaganda sites.
Also, according to the Saturday Evening Posts website:
http://www.satevepost.org/magazine/issues/archives.shtml You can order
copies of articles and they charge $25 per article. Of course, you can
always check out your local library or a University or Community College
library that may have the articles microfilched or old copies.
--
Chani, atheist #1118
Head of the EAC
Tweeker of Tukla, a very, um, colorful Ratte
***********************************
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| User: "spakka" |
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| Title: Re: Albert Einstein quote |
26 May 2004 02:45:07 AM |
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On Wed, 26 May 2004 03:09:24 +0000, Chani wrote:
Also, according to the Saturday Evening Posts website:
http://www.satevepost.org/magazine/issues/archives.shtml You can order
copies of articles and they charge $25 per article.
I'm actually considering doing this, since no one seems to know anything
about it.
Will the copyright have expired? It will be 75 years in October.
It would be nice to scan it and post it here, and maybe try to get
to the bottom of it.
Of course, you can
always check out your local library or a University or Community College
library that may have the articles microfilched or old copies.
No. I'm in the UK.
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| User: "Chani" |
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| Title: Re: Albert Einstein quote |
27 May 2004 07:21:56 PM |
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"spakka" <usenet_spam@mail.invalid> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.05.26.07.43.38.106042@mail.invalid...
On Wed, 26 May 2004 03:09:24 +0000, Chani wrote:
Also, according to the Saturday Evening Posts website:
http://www.satevepost.org/magazine/issues/archives.shtml You can order
copies of articles and they charge $25 per article.
I'm actually considering doing this, since no one seems to know anything
about it.
Will the copyright have expired? It will be 75 years in October.
It would be nice to scan it and post it here, and maybe try to get
to the bottom of it.
That is a good question. I am sure the Saturday Night Post will tell you
what you can and can't do.
Of course, you can
always check out your local library or a University or Community College
library that may have the articles microfilched or old copies.
No. I'm in the UK.
That could pose a problem then. Well, none of the research I did came up
with that quote outside of religious sites, so that makes me suspicious.
Also, if you see the quote I posted regarding Einstein's veiw of god, it
makes me even more suspicious about the authenticity of such a quote. If it
is a real quote, I would hypothesize that it is grossly taken out of
context.
--
Chani, atheist #1118
Head of the EAC
Tweeker of Tukla, a very, um, colorful Ratte
***********************************
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| User: "Robert Schneider" |
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| Title: Re: Albert Einstein quote |
25 May 2004 09:34:56 PM |
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"spakka" <usenet_spam@mail.invalid> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.05.25.22.32.18.555818@mail.invalid...
Grrr. The Christians who gave us the free Gibson film tickets have
reneged on their 'no strings' deal and pushed proselytizing material
through our door. Against my better judgment, I've accepted their
invitation to begin email correspondence. They seem to have their *****
together more than the dreary trolls here, so perhaps they will say
something worth reading. I've been pretty honest with them, so I don't
have any qualms about causing offence.
To get to the point, their leaflet included an alleged Einstein quote:
"No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of
Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled
with such life". Saturday Evening Post October 26 1929.
Take it with a grain of salt.
Apparently the Saturday Evening Post is considered a fictional magazine.
http://users.ev1.net/~homeville/fictionmag/t598.htm
George Sylvester Viereck wrote the piece.
He is a poet and a propagandist.
http://www.lib.uiowa.edu/spec-coll/Bai/johnson2.htm
This is a new one on me. Anyone have the context for it? Google just
turns up Christian propaganda sites.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Albert Einstein quote |
25 May 2004 08:34:37 PM |
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On Tue, 25 May 2004 22:33:48 +0000 in episode
<pan.2004.05.25.22.32.18.555818@mail.invalid> we saw our hero spakka
<usenet_spam@mail.invalid>:
No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus.
His personality pulsates in every word.
Hm... adds a whole new meaning to that "second coming" thing...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"I think it's the worst kept secret in Washington.
That everybody - everybody I talk to in Washington
has known and fully knows what [the neo-conservative]
agenda was and what they were trying to do."
[Retired General Anthony Zinni]
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| User: "Beowulf" |
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| Title: Re: Re: Albert Einstein quote |
26 May 2004 12:44:41 PM |
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On Tue, 25 May 2004 20:34:37 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<y@hoo.com-amikchi> ejaculated:
On Tue, 25 May 2004 22:33:48 +0000 in episode
<pan.2004.05.25.22.32.18.555818@mail.invalid> we saw our hero spakka
<usenet_spam@mail.invalid>:
No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus.
His personality pulsates in every word.
Hm... adds a whole new meaning to that "second coming" thing...
Is that like having multiple orgasms?
--
Our eyes may deceive us but our god never will.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Re: Albert Einstein quote |
26 May 2004 06:24:18 PM |
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On Wed, 26 May 2004 13:44:41 -0400 in episode
<rrl9b014mjs49gq9dncel2h0n9d59dc155@4ax.com> we saw our hero Beowulf
<beowulf_is_not_here@hotmail.com>:
On Tue, 25 May 2004 20:34:37 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi>
ejaculated:
On Tue, 25 May 2004 22:33:48 +0000 in episode
<pan.2004.05.25.22.32.18.555818@mail.invalid> we saw our hero spakka
<usenet_spam@mail.invalid>:
No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of
Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word.
Hm... adds a whole new meaning to that "second coming" thing...
Is that like having multiple orgasms?
Well, if Jeebus is pulsating I guess...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"I think it's the worst kept secret in Washington.
That everybody - everybody I talk to in Washington
has known and fully knows what [the neo-conservative]
agenda was and what they were trying to do."
[Retired General Anthony Zinni]
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| User: "Brainfried" |
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| Title: Re: Albert Einstein quote |
25 May 2004 07:24:11 PM |
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On Tue, 25 May 2004 22:33:48 +0000, spakka wrote:
Grrr. The Christians who gave us the free Gibson film tickets have
reneged on their 'no strings' deal and pushed proselytizing material
through our door. Against my better judgment, I've accepted their
invitation to begin email correspondence. They seem to have their *****
together more than the dreary trolls here, so perhaps they will say
something worth reading. I've been pretty honest with them, so I don't
have any qualms about causing offence.
To get to the point, their leaflet included an alleged Einstein quote:
"No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of
Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with
such life". Saturday Evening Post October 26 1929.
This is a new one on me. Anyone have the context for it? Google just
turns up Christian propaganda sites.
Einstein says it's a lie.
http://condor.stcloudstate.edu/~lesikar/einstein/index.html
"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals Himself in the orderly harmony of
what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of
human beings."
Look up Spinoza's God. Essentially, God = nature.
http://condor.stcloudstate.edu/~lesikar/einstein/personal.html
(there are many websites with the exact same book excerpts)
"I get hundreds and hundreds of letters but seldom one so interesting as
yours. I believe that your opinions about our society are quite
reasonable. It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious
convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not
believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed
it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is
the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our
science can reveal it. I have no possibility to bring the money you sent
me to the appropriate receiver. I return it therefore in recognition of
your good heart and intention. Your letter shows me also that wisdom is
not a product of schooling but of the lifelong attempt to acquire it.
.
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| User: "Daniel Kolle" |
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| Title: Re: Albert Einstein quote |
26 May 2004 12:06:05 PM |
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On Tue, 25 May 2004 22:33:48 GMT, spakka <usenet_spam@mail.invalid>
thought hard and said:
Grrr. The Christians who gave us the free Gibson film tickets have
reneged on their 'no strings' deal and pushed proselytizing material
through our door. Against my better judgment, I've accepted their
invitation to begin email correspondence. They seem to have their *****
together more than the dreary trolls here, so perhaps they will say
something worth reading. I've been pretty honest with them, so I don't
have any qualms about causing offence.
To get to the point, their leaflet included an alleged Einstein quote:
"No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of
Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled
with such life". Saturday Evening Post October 26 1929.
This is a new one on me. Anyone have the context for it? Google just
turns up Christian propaganda sites.
Note the word myth.
--
-Daniel "Mr. Brevity" Kolle; 16 A.A. #2035
Koji Kondo, Yo-Yo Ma, Gustav Mahler, and Krzysztof Penderecki are my Gods.
Head of EAC Denial Department and Madly Insane Scientist.
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| User: "Mark Richardson" |
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| Title: Re: Albert Einstein quote |
25 May 2004 07:39:14 PM |
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On Tue, 25 May 2004 22:33:48 GMT, spakka <usenet_spam@mail.invalid>
wrote:
Grrr. The Christians who gave us the free Gibson film tickets have
reneged on their 'no strings' deal and pushed proselytizing material
through our door. Against my better judgment, I've accepted their
invitation to begin email correspondence. They seem to have their *****
together more than the dreary trolls here, so perhaps they will say
something worth reading. I've been pretty honest with them, so I don't
have any qualms about causing offence.
To get to the point, their leaflet included an alleged Einstein quote:
"No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of
Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled
with such life". Saturday Evening Post October 26 1929.
This is a new one on me. Anyone have the context for it? Google just
turns up Christian propaganda sites.
Sounds bogus to me.
Einstein was a Jew (by heritage not conviction).
WHy would he be prattling on about Jesus?
Check out Scopes.- nothing found.
Type Einstein religion into google
Found:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/aor/einstein/einsci.htm
in particular the article
New York Times Magazine, November 9, 1930
First line:
"Everything that the human race has done and thought is concerned with
the satisfaction of deeply felt needs and the assuagement of pain."
Hmmm... sounds like Albert and I both suspect we made God up to make
us feel better.
Read it - notice no mention of Jesus.
I say it's a fake.
Mark.
--
Mark Richardson mDOTrichardsonATutasDOTeduDOTau
Member of S.M.A.S.H.
(Sarcastic Middle aged Atheists with a Sense of Humour)
-----------------------------------------------------
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| User: "Spooked " |
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| Title: Re: Albert Einstein quote |
25 May 2004 08:07:38 PM |
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Mark Richardson <mark.richardson@die.spammers.die> wrote:
Sounds bogus to me.
Einstein was a Jew (by heritage not conviction).
WHy would he be prattling on about Jesus?
Check out Scopes.- nothing found.
Type Einstein religion into google
Found:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/aor/einstein/einsci.htm
in particular the article
New York Times Magazine, November 9, 1930
First line:
"Everything that the human race has done and thought is concerned with
the satisfaction of deeply felt needs and the assuagement of pain."
Hmmm... sounds like Albert and I both suspect we made God up to make
us feel better.
Read it - notice no mention of Jesus.
I say it's a fake.
The statement "I'm a Jew" lead me to believe he was of Jewish
national, not that he was Judaic.
I don't doubt that he may have said it. Also, I'd bet that the quote
was taken out of context. Perhaps he was in agreement that it was a
compelling story.
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Albert Einstein quote |
25 May 2004 08:35:44 PM |
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On Tue, 25 May 2004 21:07:38 -0400 in episode
<g4r7b01pjb53cqnnn5le5qrm7bnfh4k3q3@4ax.com> we saw our hero Spooked <>:
Mark Richardson <mark.richardson@die.spammers.die> wrote:
Sounds bogus to me.
Einstein was a Jew (by heritage not conviction). WHy would he be
prattling on about Jesus? Check out Scopes.- nothing found.
Type Einstein religion into google
Found:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/aor/einstein/einsci.htm
in particular the article
New York Times Magazine, November 9, 1930
First line:
"Everything that the human race has done and thought is concerned with
the satisfaction of deeply felt needs and the assuagement of pain."
Hmmm... sounds like Albert and I both suspect we made God up to make us
feel better.
Read it - notice no mention of Jesus.
I say it's a fake.
The statement "I'm a Jew" lead me to believe he was of Jewish national,
not that he was Judaic.
I don't doubt that he may have said it. Also, I'd bet that the quote was
taken out of context. Perhaps he was in agreement that it was a
compelling story.
Actually, it doesn't even read like anything I've read the man write.
It just *smells fake. I'd demand a cite from them myself (then watch 'em
wave their hands, babble, and scatter).
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"I think it's the worst kept secret in Washington.
That everybody - everybody I talk to in Washington
has known and fully knows what [the neo-conservative]
agenda was and what they were trying to do."
[Retired General Anthony Zinni]
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Albert Einstein quote |
25 May 2004 08:47:03 PM |
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On Tue, 25 May 2004 20:35:44 -0500 in episode
<pan.2004.05.26.01.35.43.905048@hoo.com-amikchi> we saw our hero "Mark K.
Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi>:
On Tue, 25 May 2004 21:07:38 -0400 in episode
<g4r7b01pjb53cqnnn5le5qrm7bnfh4k3q3@4ax.com> we saw our hero Spooked <>:
Mark Richardson <mark.richardson@die.spammers.die> wrote:
Sounds bogus to me.
Einstein was a Jew (by heritage not conviction). WHy would he be
prattling on about Jesus? Check out Scopes.- nothing found. Type
Einstein religion into google
Found:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/aor/einstein/einsci.htm
in particular the article
New York Times Magazine, November 9, 1930
First line:
"Everything that the human race has done and thought is concerned with
the satisfaction of deeply felt needs and the assuagement of pain."
Hmmm... sounds like Albert and I both suspect we made God up to make us
feel better.
Read it - notice no mention of Jesus.
I say it's a fake.
The statement "I'm a Jew" lead me to believe he was of Jewish national,
not that he was Judaic.
I don't doubt that he may have said it. Also, I'd bet that the quote
was taken out of context. Perhaps he was in agreement that it was a
compelling story.
Actually, it doesn't even read like anything I've read the man write.
It just *smells fake. I'd demand a cite from them myself (then watch 'em
wave their hands, babble, and scatter).
Oh wait, there was a cite wasn't there?
Old enough to require some digging too. A large enough city library though
might just have it. I'd love to see the context. Off hand, it just doesn't
*sound like him.
On the other hand, big deal. He says "no myth is..."
*I like mythology myself...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"I think it's the worst kept secret in Washington.
That everybody - everybody I talk to in Washington
has known and fully knows what [the neo-conservative]
agenda was and what they were trying to do."
[Retired General Anthony Zinni]
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Albert Einstein quote |
29 May 2004 05:51:02 PM |
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On Tue, 25 May 2004 20:47:03 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi>,
Message ID: <pan.2004.05.26.01.47.02.655761@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote in
alt.atheism;
On Tue, 25 May 2004 20:35:44 -0500 in episode
<pan.2004.05.26.01.35.43.905048@hoo.com-amikchi> we saw our hero "Mark K.
Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi>:
On Tue, 25 May 2004 21:07:38 -0400 in episode
<g4r7b01pjb53cqnnn5le5qrm7bnfh4k3q3@4ax.com> we saw our hero Spooked <>:
Mark Richardson <mark.richardson@die.spammers.die> wrote:
Sounds bogus to me.
Einstein was a Jew (by heritage not conviction). WHy would he be
prattling on about Jesus? Check out Scopes.- nothing found. Type
Einstein religion into google
Found:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/aor/einstein/einsci.htm
in particular the article
New York Times Magazine, November 9, 1930
First line:
"Everything that the human race has done and thought is concerned with
the satisfaction of deeply felt needs and the assuagement of pain."
Hmmm... sounds like Albert and I both suspect we made God up to make us
feel better.
Read it - notice no mention of Jesus.
I say it's a fake.
http://www.erowid.org/culture/characters/einstein_albert/einstein_albert_article1.shtml
Religion and Science
by Albert Einstein
Nov 9, 1930
New York Times Magazine
Einstein, A. "Religion and Science" New York Times Magazine. Nov 9,
1930. 1-4.
Everything that the human race has done and thought is concerned with
the satisfaction of deeply felt needs and the assuagement of pain. One
has to keep this constantly in mind if one wishes to understand
spiritual movements and their development. Feeling and longing are the
motive force behind all human endeavor and human creation, in however
exalted a guise the latter may present themselves to us. Now what are
the feelings and needs that have led men to religious thought and belief
in the widest sense of the words? A little consideration will suffice to
show us that the most varying emotions preside over the birth of
religious thought and experience. With primitive man it is above all
fear that evokes religious notions - fear of hunger, wild beasts,
sickness, death. Since at this stage of existence understanding of
causal connections is usually poorly developed, the human mind creates
illusory beings more or less analogous to itself on whose wills and
actions these fearful happenings depend. Thus one tries to secure the
favor of these beings by carrying out actions and offering sacrifices
which, according to the tradition handed down from generation to
generation, propitiate them or make them well disposed toward a mortal.
In this sense I am speaking of a religion of fear. This, though not
created, is in an important degree stabilized by the formation of a
special priestly caste which sets itself up as a mediator between the
people and the beings they fear, and erects a hegemony on this basis. In
many cases a leader or ruler or a privileged class whose position rests
on other factors combines priestly functions with its secular authority
in order to make the latter more secure; or the political rulers and the
priestly caste make common cause in their own interests.
The social impulses are another source of the crystallization of
religion. Fathers and mothers and the leaders of larger human
communities are mortal and fallible. The desire for guidance, love, and
support prompts men to form the social or moral conception of God. This
is the God of Providence, who protects, disposes, rewards, and punishes;
the God who, according to the limits of the believer's outlook, loves
and cherishes the life of the tribe or of the human race, or even or
life itself; the comforter in sorrow and unsatisfied longing; he who
preserves the souls of the dead. This is the social or moral conception
of God. The Jewish scriptures admirably illustrate the development from
the religion of fear to moral religion, a development continued in the
New Testament. The religions of all civilized peoples, especially the
peoples of the Orient, are primarily moral religions. The development
from a religion of fear to moral religion is a great step in peoples'
lives. And yet, that primitive religions are based entirely on fear and
the religions of civilized peoples purely on morality is a prejudice
against which we must be on our guard. The truth is that all religions
are a varying blend of both types, with this differentiation: that on
the higher levels of social life the religion of morality predominates.
Common to all these types is the anthropomorphic character of their
conception of God. In general, only individuals of exceptional
endowments, and exceptionally high-minded communities, rise to any
considerable extent above this level. But there is a third stage of
religious experience which belongs to all of them, even though it is
rarely found in a pure form: I shall call it cosmic religious feeling.
It is very difficult to elucidate this feeling to anyone who is entirely
without it, especially as there is no anthropomorphic conception of God
corresponding to it. The individual feels the futility of human desires
and aims and the sublimity and marvelous order which reveal themselves
both in nature and in the world of thought. Individual existence
impresses him as a sort of prison and he wants to experience the
universe as a single significant whole. The beginnings of cosmic
religious feeling already appear at an early stage of development, e.g.,
in many of the Psalms of David and in some of the Prophets. Buddhism, as
we have learned especially from the wonderful writings of Schopenhauer,
contains a much stronger element of this.
The religious geniuses of all ages have been distinguished by this kind
of religious feeling, which knows no dogma and no God conceived in man's
image; so that there can be no church whose central teachings are based
on it. Hence it is precisely among the heretics of every age that we
find men who were filled with this highest kind of religious feeling and
were in many cases regarded by their contemporaries as atheists,
sometimes also as saints. Looked at in this light, men like Democritus,
Francis of Assisi, and Spinoza are closely akin to one another. How can
cosmic religious feeling be communicated from one person to another, if
it can give rise to no definite notion of a God and no theology? In my
view, it is the most important function of art and science to awaken
this feeling and keep it alive in those who are receptive to it. We thus
arrive at a conception of the relation of science to religion very
different from the usual one. When one views the matter historically,
one is inclined to look upon science and religion as irreconcilable
antagonists, and for a very obvious reason. The man who is thoroughly
convinced of the universal operation of the law of causation cannot for
a moment entertain the idea of a being who interferes in the course of
events - provided, of course, that he takes the hypothesis of causality
really seriously. He has no use for the religion of fear and equally
little for social or moral religion. A God who rewards and punishes is
inconceivable to him for the simple reason that a man's actions are
determined by necessity, external and internal, so that in God's eyes he
cannot be responsible, any more than an inanimate object is responsible
for the motions it undergoes. Science has therefore been charged with
undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior
should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and
needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor
way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hopes of reward
after death. It is therefore easy to see why the churches have always
fought science and persecuted its devotees. On the other hand, I
maintain that the cosmic religious feeling is the strongest and noblest
motive for scientific research. Only those who realize the immense
efforts and, above all, the devotion without which pioneer work in
theoretical science cannot be achieved are able to grasp the strength of
the emotion out of which alone such work, remote as it is from the
immediate realities of life, can issue. What a deep conviction of the
rationality of the universe and what a yearning to understand, were it
but a feeble reflection of the mind revealed in this world, Kepler and
Newton must have had to enable them to spend years of solitary labor in
disentangling the principles of celestial mechanics! Those whose
acquaintance with scientific research is derived chiefly from its
practical results easily develop a completely false notion of the
mentality of the men who, surrounded by a skeptical world, have shown
the way to kindred spirits scattered wide through the world and through
the centuries. Only one who has devoted his life to similar ends can
have a vivid realization of what has inspired these men and given them
the strength to remain true to their purpose in spite of countless
failures. It is cosmic religious feeling that gives a man such strength.
A contemporary has said, not unjustly, that in this materialistic age of
ours the serious scientific workers are the only profoundly religious
people.
Archived by Erowid without permission
Last Mod - Mar 13, 2004
Design © 1995-2004 Erowid.org. Content © respective copyright holders.
[]
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "W. Syme" |
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| Title: Re: Albert Einstein quote |
25 May 2004 05:59:22 PM |
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On Tue, 25 May 2004 22:33:48 GMT, spakka <usenet_spam@mail.invalid>
wrote:
Grrr. The Christians who gave us the free Gibson film tickets have
reneged on their 'no strings' deal and pushed proselytizing material
through our door. Against my better judgment, I've accepted their
invitation to begin email correspondence. They seem to have their *****
together more than the dreary trolls here, so perhaps they will say
something worth reading. I've been pretty honest with them, so I don't
have any qualms about causing offence.
To get to the point, their leaflet included an alleged Einstein quote:
"No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of
Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled
with such life". Saturday Evening Post October 26 1929.
This is a new one on me. Anyone have the context for it? Google just
turns up Christian propaganda sites.
Good thing Einstein is no more an authority on religious matters than
anyone else. Otherwise, I'd be pretty worried.
--
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. (1 Thessalonians 5:21)
W. Syme (pseudonym), European, non-native English speaker, "soft" atheist.
Email will not be read.
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: Albert Einstein quote |
25 May 2004 06:26:55 PM |
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"W. Syme" <Winston.Syme.superstitions@fastmail.fm> wrote in message > >To
get to the point, their leaflet included an alleged Einstein quote:
"No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of
Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled
with such life". Saturday Evening Post October 26 1929.
This is a new one on me. Anyone have the context for it? Google just
turns up Christian propaganda sites.
Good thing Einstein is no more an authority on religious matters than
anyone else. Otherwise, I'd be pretty worried.
I still want to know what would happen to light if there was no gravity.
Ahh well.
--
Jez
"The condition of alienation, of being asleep, of being unconscious,
of being out of one's mind, is the condition of the normal man. Society
highly values its normal man.It educates children to lose themselves
and to become absurd,and thus to be normal. Normal men have killed
perhaps 100,000,000 of their fellow normal men in the last fifty years."
R.D. Laing
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| User: "Holly the Heretic" |
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| Title: Re: Albert Einstein quote |
26 May 2004 02:13:30 PM |
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On Tue, 25 May 2004 22:59:22 GMT, W. Syme
<Winston.Syme.superstitions@fastmail.fm> wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2004 22:33:48 GMT, spakka <usenet_spam@mail.invalid>
wrote:
Grrr. The Christians who gave us the free Gibson film tickets have
reneged on their 'no strings' deal and pushed proselytizing material
through our door. Against my better judgment, I've accepted their
invitation to begin email correspondence. They seem to have their *****
together more than the dreary trolls here, so perhaps they will say
something worth reading. I've been pretty honest with them, so I don't
have any qualms about causing offence.
To get to the point, their leaflet included an alleged Einstein quote:
"No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of
Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled
with such life". Saturday Evening Post October 26 1929.
This is a new one on me. Anyone have the context for it? Google just
turns up Christian propaganda sites.
Good thing Einstein is no more an authority on religious matters than
anyone else. Otherwise, I'd be pretty worried.
I dunno... I think he mad a lot of sense.
"The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It should
transcend a personal God and avoid dogmas and theology. Covering both
natural and spiritual, it should be based on a religious sense arising
from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual and a
meaningful unity. Buddhism answers this description. If there is any
religion that would cope with modern scientific needs, it would be
Buddhism." Einstein
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| User: "Bill Mechlenburg" |
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| Title: Re: Albert Einstein quote |
26 May 2004 03:20:26 PM |
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"Holly the Heretic" <nowhere@nowhere.org> wrote in message
news:b3r9b0puebj2bgps5psmbj17h3ed66jaha@4ax.com...
On Tue, 25 May 2004 22:59:22 GMT, W. Syme
<Winston.Syme.superstitions@fastmail.fm> wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2004 22:33:48 GMT, spakka <usenet_spam@mail.invalid>
wrote:
Grrr. The Christians who gave us the free Gibson film tickets have
reneged on their 'no strings' deal and pushed proselytizing material
through our door. Against my better judgment, I've accepted their
invitation to begin email correspondence. They seem to have their *****
together more than the dreary trolls here, so perhaps they will say
something worth reading. I've been pretty honest with them, so I don't
have any qualms about causing offence.
To get to the point, their leaflet included an alleged Einstein quote:
"No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of
Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled
with such life". Saturday Evening Post October 26 1929.
I believe this is a phony contrived quote. Einstein was not a religious
person bur an agnostic.
This is a new one on me. Anyone have the context for it? Google just
turns up Christian propaganda sites.
Good thing Einstein is no more an authority on religious matters than
anyone else. Otherwise, I'd be pretty worried.
I dunno... I think he mad a lot of sense.
"The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It should
transcend a personal God and avoid dogmas and theology. Covering both
natural and spiritual, it should be based on a religious sense arising
from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual and a
meaningful unity. Buddhism answers this description. If there is any
religion that would cope with modern scientific needs, it would be
Buddhism." Einstein
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| User: "Holly the Heretic" |
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| Title: Re: Albert Einstein quote |
27 May 2004 06:43:54 AM |
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On Wed, 26 May 2004 20:20:26 GMT, "Bill Mechlenburg"
<wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
"Holly the Heretic" <nowhere@nowhere.org> wrote in message
news:b3r9b0puebj2bgps5psmbj17h3ed66jaha@4ax.com...
On Tue, 25 May 2004 22:59:22 GMT, W. Syme
<Winston.Syme.superstitions@fastmail.fm> wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2004 22:33:48 GMT, spakka <usenet_spam@mail.invalid>
wrote:
Grrr. The Christians who gave us the free Gibson film tickets have
reneged on their 'no strings' deal and pushed proselytizing material
through our door. Against my better judgment, I've accepted their
invitation to begin email correspondence. They seem to have their *****
together more than the dreary trolls here, so perhaps they will say
something worth reading. I've been pretty honest with them, so I don't
have any qualms about causing offence.
To get to the point, their leaflet included an alleged Einstein quote:
"No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of
Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled
with such life". Saturday Evening Post October 26 1929.
I believe this is a phony contrived quote. Einstein was not a religious
person bur an agnostic.
Makes sense, and I'm not entirely surprised that his name's being
hijacked by people who want to make a point.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Albert Einstein quote |
29 May 2004 05:47:22 PM |
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On Thu, 27 May 2004 11:43:54 +0000 (UTC), Holly the Heretic
<nowhere@nowhere.org>, Message ID:
<d4lbb05copnci9rb99unqgompp17nvg0pk@4ax.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
On Wed, 26 May 2004 20:20:26 GMT, "Bill Mechlenburg"
<wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
"Holly the Heretic" <nowhere@nowhere.org> wrote in message
news:b3r9b0puebj2bgps5psmbj17h3ed66jaha@4ax.com...
On Tue, 25 May 2004 22:59:22 GMT, W. Syme
<Winston.Syme.superstitions@fastmail.fm> wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2004 22:33:48 GMT, spakka <usenet_spam@mail.invalid>
wrote:
Grrr. The Christians who gave us the free Gibson film tickets have
reneged on their 'no strings' deal and pushed proselytizing material
through our door. Against my better judgment, I've accepted their
invitation to begin email correspondence. They seem to have their *****
together more than the dreary trolls here, so perhaps they will say
something worth reading. I've been pretty honest with them, so I don't
have any qualms about causing offence.
To get to the point, their leaflet included an alleged Einstein quote:
"No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of
Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled
with such life". Saturday Evening Post October 26 1929.
I believe this is a phony contrived quote. Einstein was not a religious
person bur an agnostic.
Makes sense, and I'm not entirely surprised that his name's being
hijacked by people who want to make a point.
What else can be expected from dishonest *****-for-brains?
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Albert Einstein quote |
25 May 2004 05:52:57 PM |
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On Tue, 25 May 2004 22:33:48 GMT, spakka <usenet_spam@mail.invalid>
wrote:
Grrr. The Christians who gave us the free Gibson film tickets have
reneged on their 'no strings' deal and pushed proselytizing material
through our door. Against my better judgment, I've accepted their
invitation to begin email correspondence. They seem to have their *****
together more than the dreary trolls here, so perhaps they will say
something worth reading. I've been pretty honest with them, so I don't
have any qualms about causing offence.
I haven't come across any in real life who are better - the
intelligent ones don't proselytise.
To get to the point, their leaflet included an alleged Einstein quote:
"No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of
Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled
with such life". Saturday Evening Post October 26 1929.
Demand they produce the original article. Or a photocopy.
This is a new one on me. Anyone have the context for it? Google just
turns up Christian propaganda sites.
Obviously.
It is at total odds with his beliefs: he was raised Jewish and
finished up a secular Jew.
But in any case, even if he did say that, what would it prove? Just
that he was another brainswashed Christian - which he wasn't.
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| User: "Solomon Kozanski" |
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| Title: Re: Albert Einstein quote |
19 Jun 2004 03:09:06 AM |
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"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:4dj7b01p5ep3016hc6in73agleqi16m9v8@4ax.com...
On Tue, 25 May 2004 22:33:48 GMT, spakka <usenet_spam@mail.invalid>
wrote:
Grrr. The Christians who gave us the free Gibson film tickets have
reneged on their 'no strings' deal and pushed proselytizing material
through our door. Against my better judgment, I've accepted their
invitation to begin email correspondence. They seem to have their *****
together more than the dreary trolls here, so perhaps they will say
something worth reading. I've been pretty honest with them, so I don't
have any qualms about causing offence.
I haven't come across any in real life who are better - the
intelligent ones don't proselytise.
To get to the point, their leaflet included an alleged Einstein quote:
"No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of
Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled
with such life". Saturday Evening Post October 26 1929.
Demand they produce the original article. Or a photocopy.
This is a new one on me. Anyone have the context for it? Google just
turns up Christian propaganda sites.
Obviously.
It is at total odds with his beliefs: he was raised Jewish and
finished up a secular Jew.
precisely why the quote is *****. do they really expect us to bow down
and suck the shaft that's been largely instrumental in the last 2000 years
of jewish suffering? "accepting jesus as my personal savior" would be
exactly the same thing as worshipping hitler!
"you jews are the sons of your father, the devil", spakethed jesus (what's
with these fucking nuts and their shakespearean tongue anyway? it was
written in greek, aramaic and hebrew!)
"jesus, blow me, suck ***** through a tube, and go straight to hell, you
fucking nazi piece of *****," i respond!
most jews, secular and those of alternative sanity despise jesus and even
more so, xstainity, with a passion. of course, actually finding a jewish
person who is willing to admit such feelings is quite a task.
i, for one, make no effort to hide my hatred of xstainity because i simply
despise the cocksuckers!
But in any case, even if he did say that, what would it prove? Just
that he was another brainswashed Christian - which he wasn't.
the worst thing about being an atheist is that you dont believe in the hell
in which christains and their jesus deserve to burn.
--
Brought to you courtesy of Kozanski's Morgue & Grill
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Albert Einstein quote |
25 May 2004 08:40:53 PM |
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On Tue, 25 May 2004 22:52:57 +0000 in episode
<4dj7b01p5ep3016hc6in73agleqi16m9v8@4ax.com> we saw our hero Christopher
A. Lee <calee@optonline.net>:
On Tue, 25 May 2004 22:33:48 GMT, spakka <usenet_spam@mail.invalid> wrote:
Grrr. The Christians who gave us the free Gibson film tickets have
reneged on their 'no strings' deal and pushed proselytizing material
through our door. Against my better judgment, I've accepted their
invitation to begin email correspondence. They seem to have their *****
together more than the dreary trolls here, so perhaps they will say
something worth reading. I've been pretty honest with them, so I don't
have any qualms about causing offence.
I haven't come across any in real life who are better - the intelligent
ones don't proselytise.
To get to the point, their leaflet included an alleged Einstein quote:
"No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of
Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with
such life". Saturday Evening Post October 26 1929.
Demand they produce the original article. Or a photocopy.
This is a new one on me. Anyone have the context for it? Google just
turns up Christian propaganda sites.
Obviously.
It is at total odds with his beliefs: he was raised Jewish and finished up
a secular Jew.
But in any case, even if he did say that, what would it prove? Just that
he was another brainswashed Christian - which he wasn't.
Not even that. He says "No myth is..."
So he admires the mythology. Shrug. I find North American native mythology
often quite captivating and fascinating. And I'm an atheist...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"I think it's the worst kept secret in Washington.
That everybody - everybody I talk to in Washington
has known and fully knows what [the neo-conservative]
agenda was and what they were trying to do."
[Retired General Anthony Zinni]
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: Albert Einstein quote |
26 May 2004 12:13:26 AM |
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One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach spakka:
Grrr. The Christians who gave us the free Gibson film tickets have
reneged on their 'no strings' deal and pushed proselytizing material
through our door. Against my better judgment, I've accepted their
invitation to begin email correspondence. They seem to have their *****
together more than the dreary trolls here, so perhaps they will say
something worth reading. I've been pretty honest with them, so I don't
have any qualms about causing offence.
To get to the point, their leaflet included an alleged Einstein quote:
"No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of
Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled
with such life". Saturday Evening Post October 26 1929.
This is a new one on me. Anyone have the context for it? Google just
turns up Christian propaganda sites.
Of course, being Christians, they just cruised right through the presence
of the word "myth" in the statement...
Good old Albert.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________
It's my funeral and I'll fry if I want to...
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| User: "Spooked " |
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| Title: Re: Albert Einstein quote |
25 May 2004 06:04:38 PM |
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spakka <usenet_spam@mail.invalid> wrote:
Grrr. The Christians who gave us the free Gibson film tickets have
reneged on their 'no strings' deal and pushed proselytizing material
through our door. Against my better judgment, I've accepted their
invitation to begin email correspondence. They seem to have their *****
together more than the dreary trolls here, so perhaps they will say
something worth reading. I've been pretty honest with them, so I don't
have any qualms about causing offence.
To get to the point, their leaflet included an alleged Einstein quote:
"No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of
Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled
with such life". Saturday Evening Post October 26 1929.
This is a new one on me. Anyone have the context for it? Google just
turns up Christian propaganda sites.
http://quotes.telemanage.ca/quotes.nsf/25c31d790fc357b685256b28000a301b/2f0b90de4b09213e85256c8d0062c07c!OpenDocument
This seems secular.
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| User: "Gregory Gadow" |
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| Title: Re: Albert Einstein quote |
26 May 2004 08:05:46 AM |
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spakka wrote:
Grrr. The Christians who gave us the free Gibson film tickets have
reneged on their 'no strings' deal and pushed proselytizing material
through our door. Against my better judgment, I've accepted their
invitation to begin email correspondence. They seem to have their *****
together more than the dreary trolls here, so perhaps they will say
something worth reading. I've been pretty honest with them, so I don't
have any qualms about causing offence.
To get to the point, their leaflet included an alleged Einstein quote:
"No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of
Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled
with such life". Saturday Evening Post October 26 1929.
This is a new one on me. Anyone have the context for it? Google just
turns up Christian propaganda sites.
Given that Einstein was a secular Jew until the day he died, I'm willing to
bet the quote is entirely bogus.
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"If you make yourself a sheep, the wolves will eat you."
-- Benjamin Franklin
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