| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
12 Feb 2005 12:58:41 AM |
| Object: |
All gods are man-made |
Self-evident truths for me:
(Whatever is self-evident for one, is not necessarily self-evident
for somebody else)
1. All religions are man-made, which means all gods are man-made
2. The Christian concept of a soul is untenable, as nowhere in the long
line of evolution the soul was suddenly inserted at a discrete point.
I.e., if we assume that the soul was inserted in a living being 1
million years ago, can we then reasonably argue that his or her father
and mother did not have a soul? We cannot. This means: All living
beings have a soul or no living beings have a soul. The concept of
a soul in each human being and only in human beings then is untenable.
3. There is no heaven and hell. All religions are man-made which means
these two concepts are man-made. They were created when social groups
evolved, to exert control and keep individual behavior in-line and
within boundaries so as to be beneficial to the group or its leaders.
If there is no heaven and hell, does it follow there is no after-life?
We don't know but as our consciousness comes from and is tied to
living organized matter such as the brain, and this matter becomes
disorganized, lifeless and falls apart completely after we die, it is
very very unlikely. Assuming that a 'soul' escaped to 'heaven' or into
the universe, as some kind of invisible white dove, is a flight of
fancy.
4. The Christian dogma of sin, based on human beings having free choice
to obey or dis-obey, is untenable as 'sin', killing, fighting, etc.,
already existed millions of years before human beings came about. That
means in the long line of evolution there was never a discrete point
where the 'first' human beings suddenly had free choice to obey or
dis-obey. That also means the dogma of Christ's death at the cross to
atone for our sins is untenable. Human beings evolved and never
(suddenly) had free choice to obey or dis-obey (=sin).
5. The Christian concept that you can only be saved through accepting
Christ as your Savior is untenable. As 5 billion on earth are not
Christians, it is illogical to assume that 'God' automatically condemns
5
billion out of 6 billion to hell.
6. All religions are man-made, which explains the huge variety of
religions. Any evolving human society evolves beliefs which then evolve
in absolute beliefs and then in absolute structured beliefs = religion.
It also explains the similarity of so many religions.
7. As all religions are man-made, the concept of God itself is
man-made.
As nowhere in the physical world we see any physical acts/actions by
'God', there is no reason to assume that a God like the Christian God
exists. Either God is absent, is inactive, is dead or does not exist.
In the recent tsunami up to 100,000 innocent children were killed.
'God' did not do it. 'Satan' did not do it. The earth core is cooling,
forcing huge plates to move, which occasionaly rupture into
earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, etc., which in turn cause natural
catastrophes such as the recent tsunami.
Nowhere did the 'hand of God' act anywhere.
8. The mystery of matter and why we exist does not mean we need to
assume that an all powerful being like the Christian God (or other
or similar or the same God, such as for Islam and Judaism) exists.
In the last 10,000 years more and more mysteries have been
explained, and in the coming millions of years many more mysteries will
be resolved. That means religious beliefs get pushed back more and more
away from the current simple absolute religious 'truths' and beliefs
as described in 'holy' books. All 'holy' books were created, edited
and altered by human beings. That means they contain man-made legends,
philosophies, myths, etc., being pushed back or voided by science
and rational explanations. That means a current religion such as
Christianity can only survive on longer terms if it develops a much
better explanation and rationale for the mystery of matter and life
and our existence.
However I think Christianity cannot 're-engineer' itself,
so it is likely it will slowly die. I am not saying that the general
human need for spirituality will disappear, but the dogmas, beliefs and
concepts of a religion such as Christianity (as well as Islam and
Judaism) will become less and less acceptable to more and more people.
The core issue is a direct conflict between the religious/emotional
approach and the scientific/rational approach. Spirituality will stay,
dogmatic religions based on 'beliefs' will slowly disappear
or remain with smaller and smaller groups of the 'un-enlightened'.
By Michael M. Terra
.
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| User: "Ike" |
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| Title: Re: All gods are man-made |
12 Feb 2005 09:40:19 AM |
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<mm2terra@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1108191521.089188.232100@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Self-evident truths for me:
(Whatever is self-evident for one, is not necessarily self-evident
for somebody else)
1. All religions are man-made, which means all gods are man-made
Define made.
2. The Christian concept of a soul is untenable, as nowhere in the long
line of evolution the soul was suddenly inserted at a discrete point.
I.e., if we assume that the soul was inserted in a living being 1
million years ago, can we then reasonably argue that his or her father
and mother did not have a soul? We cannot. This means: All living
beings have a soul or no living beings have a soul. The concept of
a soul in each human being and only in human beings then is untenable.
But this doesn't wash for people who believe in Intelligent design, which is
Creationism Lite.
3. There is no heaven and hell. All religions are man-made which means
these two concepts are man-made. They were created when social groups
evolved, to exert control and keep individual behavior in-line and
within boundaries so as to be beneficial to the group or its leaders.
Sounds like you are describing a deliberate conscious process with sinister
motivation, rather than an unconscious process with social utility.
If there is no heaven and hell, does it follow there is no after-life?
No, if there is no after life, it follows that Heaven or Hell is empty. God
threw a party, and the dead people stayed home and rotted.
We don't know but as our consciousness comes from and is tied to
living organized matter such as the brain, and this matter becomes
disorganized, lifeless and falls apart completely after we die, it is
very very unlikely.
How so, unlikely. Why not just say impossible?
Assuming that a 'soul' escaped to 'heaven' or into
the universe, as some kind of invisible white dove, is a flight of
fancy.
Oxymoron patrol.
How can it be invisible and white?
4. The Christian dogma of sin, based on human beings having free choice
to obey or dis-obey, is untenable as 'sin', killing, fighting, etc.,
already existed millions of years before human beings came about.
How do you know? Anyway when animals do it God doesn't care, or else He
communicates with them through special animal saints in visions we can't
know of or see.
That
means in the long line of evolution there was never a discrete point
where the 'first' human beings suddenly had free choice to obey or
dis-obey. That also means the dogma of Christ's death at the cross to
atone for our sins is untenable.
Wow, untenable, such a fancy word!
Human beings evolved and never
(suddenly) had free choice to obey or dis-obey (=sin).
5. The Christian concept that you can only be saved through accepting
Christ as your Savior is untenable. As 5 billion on earth are not
Christians, it is illogical to assume that 'God' automatically condemns
5
billion out of 6 billion to hell.
And why is it logical to keep reading tihs junk you wrote?
6. All religions are man-made, which explains the huge variety of
religions. Any evolving human society evolves beliefs which then evolve
in absolute beliefs and then in absolute structured beliefs = religion.
It also explains the similarity of so many religions.
Religion in a nutshell.
7. As all religions are man-made, the concept of God itself is
man-made.
Did you say that before, or am I hallucinating deja vu?
As nowhere in the physical world we see any physical acts/actions by
'God', there is no reason to assume that a God like the Christian God
exists. Either God is absent, is inactive, is dead or does not exist.
Who gives a s*?
In the recent tsunami up to 100,000 innocent children were killed.
'God' did not do it. 'Satan' did not do it. The earth core is cooling,
forcing huge plates to move, which occasionaly rupture into
earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, etc., which in turn cause natural
catastrophes such as the recent tsunami.
Nowhere did the 'hand of God' act anywhere.
You forget about Intelligent Design? It's so intelligent it makes no sense
to you. Have you ever failed an IQ test?
8. The mystery of matter and why we exist does not mean we need to
assume that an all powerful being like the Christian God (or other
or similar or the same God, such as for Islam and Judaism) exists.
Define exists.
In the last 10,000 years more and more mysteries have been
explained, and in the coming millions of years many more mysteries will
be resolved.
What are you, a prophet now?
That means religious beliefs get pushed back more and more
away from the current simple absolute religious 'truths' and beliefs
as described in 'holy' books. All 'holy' books were created, edited
and altered by human beings. That means they contain man-made legends,
philosophies, myths, etc., being pushed back or voided by science
and rational explanations. That means a current religion such as
Christianity can only survive on longer terms if it develops a much
better explanation and rationale for the mystery of matter and life
and our existence.
There's a nice job for you.
However I think Christianity cannot 're-engineer' itself,
so it is likely it will slowly die.
In that case don't quit your day job.
I am not saying that the general
human need for spirituality will disappear, but the dogmas, beliefs and
concepts of a religion such as Christianity (as well as Islam and
Judaism) will become less and less acceptable to more and more people.
Like I said, who gives a s/*?
The core issue is a direct conflict between the religious/emotional
approach and the scientific/rational approach. Spirituality will stay,
dogmatic religions based on 'beliefs' will slowly disappear
or remain with smaller and smaller groups of the 'un-enlightened'.
What spirituality? You haven't proved it exists yet. You haven't even
defined exists or it.
By Michael M. Terra
Immoral words.
.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: All gods are man-made |
13 Feb 2005 04:38:24 AM |
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On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 15:40:19 GMT, "Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com>
wrote:
<mm2terra@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1108191521.089188.232100@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Self-evident truths for me:
(Whatever is self-evident for one, is not necessarily self-evident
for somebody else)
1. All religions are man-made, which means all gods are man-made
Define made.
Actually he got it the wrong way round. Theists claim this concept of
a god they have is unknowable, invisible undetectable and so on then
go on to claim all sorts of things about this god without saying how
they could possibly know. Clearly the god is invention - what else
could it be if they claim the god is undetectable?
Having thus invented a god they then, somehow, decide this god needs
worshipping, perhaps with a view to persuade it (praying) to do their
bidding, perhaps if the constantly sing its praises and keep
telling it how wonderful that it is, on the principle flattery works,
the god might puff itself up with self-important pride and grant them
their wishes. So they need to invent all kinds of rituals and
ceremonials to do that, hence they invent a religion.
Naturally they fall out amonst themselves which ritual is exactly
right (maybe certain rituals do not get the required results) so
they start falling out and killing one another.
Of course all this praying and wishful thinking never works so
they keep inventing new ways to worship in an ever fruitless
attempt to find a formula that meets this seemingly fastidious
gods precise requirements hence the myriad of religions and
sects each with its own slightly different (but oh so terribly
important) way of doing things.
--
Les Hellawell
greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
.
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| User: "Ike" |
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| Title: Re: All gods are man-made |
13 Feb 2005 06:18:37 PM |
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"Les Hellawell" <myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote in message
news:9nau01hs6gtvf0spp6qgjii0pi951etlpu@4ax.com...
On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 15:40:19 GMT, "Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com>
wrote:
<mm2terra@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1108191521.089188.232100@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Self-evident truths for me:
(Whatever is self-evident for one, is not necessarily self-evident
for somebody else)
1. All religions are man-made, which means all gods are man-made
Define made.
Actually he got it the wrong way round. Theists claim this concept of
a god they have is unknowable, invisible undetectable and so on then
go on to claim all sorts of things about this god without saying how
they could possibly know.
If it's unknowable invisible and undetectable, I got no problem with it.
Clearly the god is invention - what else
could it be if they claim the god is undetectable?
It could be a real undetectable thing.
Having thus invented a god they then, somehow, decide this god needs
worshipping, perhaps with a view to persuade it (praying) to do their
bidding, perhaps if the constantly sing its praises and keep
telling it how wonderful that it is, on the principle flattery works,
the god might puff itself up with self-important pride and grant them
their wishes. So they need to invent all kinds of rituals and
ceremonials to do that, hence they invent a religion.
I thought they were worshipping themselves!
Naturally they fall out amonst themselves which ritual is exactly
right (maybe certain rituals do not get the required results) so
they start falling out and killing one another.
I thought they killed each other just because that's what people seem to do
to try to get along.
Of course all this praying and wishful thinking never works so
they keep inventing new ways to worship in an ever fruitless
attempt to find a formula that meets this seemingly fastidious
gods precise requirements hence the myriad of religions and
sects each with its own slightly different (but oh so terribly
important) way of doing things.
Well if your next door neighbor does it that way, and the guy in the next
county does it another way, which way are you going to do it?
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: All gods are man-made |
12 Feb 2005 06:23:49 AM |
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On 11 Feb 2005 22:58:41 -0800, wrote:
Self-evident truths for me:
(Whatever is self-evident for one, is not necessarily self-evident
for somebody else)
From the looks of your list, I'd say you are the lone ranger.
1. All religions are man-made, which means all gods are man-made
All but one is man-made. The one and only true faith is God made.
2. The Christian concept of a soul is untenable, as nowhere in the long
line of evolution the soul was suddenly inserted at a discrete point.
That's right, it has been there since God created man.
I.e., if we assume that the soul was inserted in a living being 1
million years ago, can we then reasonably argue that his or her father
and mother did not have a soul? We cannot. This means: All living
beings have a soul or no living beings have a soul. The concept of
a soul in each human being and only in human beings then is untenable.
Your argument is false because you start off with "if".
3. There is no heaven and hell.
Sure there is. God said so.
If there is no heaven and hell, does it follow there is no after-life?
Your argument is false because you start off with "if".
4. The Christian dogma of sin, based on human beings having free choice
to obey or dis-obey, is untenable as 'sin', killing, fighting, etc.,
already existed millions of years before human beings came about.
??? Mankind accepted sin as a way of life. Mankind was the first.
5. The Christian concept that you can only be saved through accepting
Christ as your Savior is untenable. As 5 billion on earth are not
Christians, it is illogical to assume that 'God' automatically condemns
5 billion out of 6 billion to hell.
That's exactly right. He doesn't. You make the wrong assessment that the
ignorant are condemned. God said just the opposite.
Oh, well. Your testament is extraordinarily weak. There is no point in reading
on.
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
.
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| User: "Ike" |
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| Title: Re: All gods are man-made |
12 Feb 2005 09:48:57 AM |
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"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:7tsr01pq1tdoeqdj3f9eqv9accva99hb80@4ax.com...
On 11 Feb 2005 22:58:41 -0800, wrote:
Self-evident truths for me:
(Whatever is self-evident for one, is not necessarily self-evident
for somebody else)
From the looks of your list, I'd say you are the lone ranger.
Who you callin' we white man?
1. All religions are man-made, which means all gods are man-made
All but one is man-made. The one and only true faith is God made.
All automobles are man-made except the one you get to drive in Heaven.
2. The Christian concept of a soul is untenable, as nowhere in the long
line of evolution the soul was suddenly inserted at a discrete point.
That's right, it has been there since God created man.
There's your discrete point! Halleluiah.
I.e., if we assume that the soul was inserted in a living being 1
million years ago, can we then reasonably argue that his or her father
and mother did not have a soul? We cannot. This means: All living
beings have a soul or no living beings have a soul. The concept of
a soul in each human being and only in human beings then is untenable.
Your argument is false because you start off with "if".
If your argument is true it is now false because I started with an if.
3. There is no heaven and hell.
Sure there is. God said so.
I wasn't there when He said so. Wer eyou, Duke baby?
If there is no heaven and hell, does it follow there is no after-life?
Your argument is false because you start off with "if".
If your argument was false it is now true because I started with if.
4. The Christian dogma of sin, based on human beings having free choice
to obey or dis-obey, is untenable as 'sin', killing, fighting, etc.,
already existed millions of years before human beings came about.
??? Mankind accepted sin as a way of life. Mankind was the first.
Sin is a way of life? Oboy! Halelluiah. Halitosis even.
5. The Christian concept that you can only be saved through accepting
Christ as your Savior is untenable. As 5 billion on earth are not
Christians, it is illogical to assume that 'God' automatically condemns
5 billion out of 6 billion to hell.
That's exactly right. He doesn't. You make the wrong assessment that the
ignorant are condemned. God said just the opposite.
Plus many people think the ignorant are just stupid, except when they
succeed in killing you.
Oh, well. Your testament is extraordinarily weak. There is no point in
reading
on.
It can't measure up to your New Testament, can it Dukey boy?
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
--
The argument that everything had a Creator because it's too complicated, is
about as reasonable as saying that it couldn't have been created since it's
too complicated.
It's about like saying that a super flea created a dog. Then
the good fleas go to a great dog in the sky, while the bad unbelieving fleas
are scratched off into a super rug to be forever hungry. If you think dogs
weren't created by a Great Flea then you are an afleaist.
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: All gods are man-made |
12 Feb 2005 01:20:20 PM |
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On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 15:48:57 GMT, "Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
From the looks of your list, I'd say you are the lone ranger.
Who you callin' we white man?
You on the bottle again?
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
.
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: All gods are man-made |
12 Feb 2005 10:03:29 AM |
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on 12 Feb 2005 in alt.atheism, Ike dropped trou, farted, whirled, then
shouted:
All automobles are man-made except the one you get to drive in Heaven.
I figure if dogs don't get to go, I don't want to either.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________
Why is it that most of the people who are against abortion are the kind of
people you wouldn't want to ***** in the first place?
--George Carlin
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| User: "Ike" |
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| Title: Re: All gods are man-made |
12 Feb 2005 11:51:36 AM |
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"Vic Sagerquist" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95FB5235D257Bvicman@127.0.0.1...
on 12 Feb 2005 in alt.atheism, Ike dropped trou, farted, whirled, then
shouted:
All automobles are man-made except the one you get to drive in Heaven.
I figure if dogs don't get to go, I don't want to either.
Of course they do. They get to chase the Holy cars.
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: All gods are man-made |
12 Feb 2005 01:23:27 PM |
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On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 10:03:29 -0600, Vic Sagerquist <address@withheld.com> wrote:
All automobles are man-made except the one you get to drive in Heaven.
I figure if dogs don't get to go, I don't want to either.
They don't get to go to hell either. Now what are you going to do?
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: All gods are man-made |
13 Feb 2005 04:24:12 AM |
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On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 06:23:49 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 11 Feb 2005 22:58:41 -0800, wrote:
Self-evident truths for me:
(Whatever is self-evident for one, is not necessarily self-evident
for somebody else)
From the looks of your list, I'd say you are the lone ranger.
1. All religions are man-made, which means all gods are man-made
All but one is man-made. The one and only true faith is God made.
2. The Christian concept of a soul is untenable, as nowhere in the long
line of evolution the soul was suddenly inserted at a discrete point.
That's right, it has been there since God created man.
I.e., if we assume that the soul was inserted in a living being 1
million years ago, can we then reasonably argue that his or her father
and mother did not have a soul? We cannot. This means: All living
beings have a soul or no living beings have a soul. The concept of
a soul in each human being and only in human beings then is untenable.
Your argument is false because you start off with "if".
3. There is no heaven and hell.
Sure there is. God said so.
If there is no heaven and hell, does it follow there is no after-life?
Your argument is false because you start off with "if".
4. The Christian dogma of sin, based on human beings having free choice
to obey or dis-obey, is untenable as 'sin', killing, fighting, etc.,
already existed millions of years before human beings came about.
??? Mankind accepted sin as a way of life. Mankind was the first.
I do not recall being given a choice. And pleaseee do not come up
with the Garden of Eden scam again. Your god gave them an order they
could not possibly understand (assuming the myth is true as told...
by whom?). They had to eat the fruit first to do that!
5. The Christian concept that you can only be saved through accepting
Christ as your Savior is untenable. As 5 billion on earth are not
Christians, it is illogical to assume that 'God' automatically condemns
5 billion out of 6 billion to hell.
That's exactly right. He doesn't. You make the wrong assessment that the
ignorant are condemned. God said just the opposite.
Where does this 'god said' come from? If you quote the Bible please
explain how the people quoted knew what 'god said'. Anything that
demonstrates they did not just simple make it all up like Tolkein did.
--
Les Hellawell
greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: All gods are man-made |
13 Feb 2005 07:42:57 AM |
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On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 10:24:12 +0000, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
4. The Christian dogma of sin, based on human beings having free choice
to obey or dis-obey, is untenable as 'sin', killing, fighting, etc.,
already existed millions of years before human beings came about.
??? Mankind accepted sin as a way of life. Mankind was the first.
I do not recall being given a choice.
That's because you were given one at your birth. It's your right, get it.
And pleaseee do not come up
with the Garden of Eden scam again.
It's not a scam, les. The GofE is a specific event for which you and I
experience every day.
What was "original sin" - eating the fruit? Of course not.
God said "do not". A&E said "we'll decide". And that's what you and I struggle
with every day. As human beings, it is our natural flaw. You and I are created
with that flaw, in baptism we are buried with Christ to it in that we will work
to overcome it, and that is our calling as a Christian - to see it, to work to
overcome it, not even to be successful but to try.
Your god gave them an order they
could not possibly understand (assuming the myth is true as told...
by whom?). They had to eat the fruit first to do that!
Nope, eating has nothing to do with it. Saying "no" to God and then "we'll
decide, not you" has everything to do with it.
5. The Christian concept that you can only be saved through accepting
Christ as your Savior is untenable. As 5 billion on earth are not
Christians, it is illogical to assume that 'God' automatically condemns
5 billion out of 6 billion to hell.
That's exactly right. He doesn't. You make the wrong assessment that the
ignorant are condemned. God said just the opposite.
Where does this 'god said' come from? If you quote the Bible please
explain how the people quoted knew what 'god said'. Anything that
demonstrates they did not just simple make it all up like Tolkein did.
The bible is the revealed word of God written in the hand of man.
God said "love one another as I love you". Our failure is to counter with
unreserved "I'll decide".
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
.
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| User: "Ike" |
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| Title: Re: All gods are man-made |
13 Feb 2005 10:00:14 PM |
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"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:44lu0199s8hbh8s2me6i0uq9ujhar2c2l4@4ax.com...
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 10:24:12 +0000, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
What was "original sin" - eating the fruit? Of course not.
God said "do not". A&E said "we'll decide". And that's what you and I
struggle
with every day. As human beings, it is our natural flaw. You and I are
created
with that flaw, in baptism we are buried with Christ to it in that we will
work
to overcome it, and that is our calling as a Christian - to see it, to
work to
overcome it, not even to be successful but to try.
Do you have an example of yourself obeying God? The reason I asked, is I
can prove to you that it isn't obeying God that matters to you. What matters
to you is self-gratification. In everything you do including posting in this
newsgroup.
Nope, eating has nothing to do with it. Saying "no" to God and then
"we'll
decide, not you" has everything to do with it.
Where does this 'god said' come from? If you quote the Bible please
explain how the people quoted knew what 'god said'. Anything that
demonstrates they did not just simple make it all up like Tolkein did.
The bible is the revealed word of God written in the hand of man.
God said "love one another as I love you". Our failure is to counter with
unreserved "I'll decide".
Loving one another is great. Especially others that you feel like loving at
the moment. Which is what you do, just like everyone else does. You're not a
special pet of a supernatural being just because you do what comes
naturally. You are no better than anyone else and you don't have eternal
life, except in the sense that now is eternity.
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: All gods are man-made |
14 Feb 2005 05:57:19 AM |
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On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 04:00:14 GMT, "Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
Do you have an example of yourself obeying God? The reason I asked, is I
can prove to you that it isn't obeying God that matters to you. What matters
to you is self-gratification. In everything you do including posting in this
newsgroup.
Ok. God said "love one another as I love you" - John 13:34. God said "when you
do to the least of mine, you do to me" - Mat 25:31-46. Simply put.
We see that love of God is reflected in our recognition that as we are called to
love one another, to serve one another, to put the needs of the other before our
own desires, to give to the other rather than put ourselves first. Naturally,
only Christ never sinned, so we can't fully succeed.
This is best reflected in this little story:
The man dies, goes to the pearly gates, is about to be admitted in, and requests
a visit to hell first. St Peter says ok. On arrival, the man witnesses
grandeur, food, beauty everywhere, etc but all sad faces. Why? No one in hell
can bend their elbows and hence can't enjoy the joys of hell.
Going back to heaven, the man finds the same thing. In heaven also, no one has
elbows that bend, but unlike hell, everybody is very happy. Why? Because
everybody is feeding the other.
God said "love one another as I love you". Our failure is to counter with
unreserved "I'll decide".
Loving one another is great. Especially others that you feel like loving at
the moment.
Absolutely the opposite - we're talking about doing for the other before we do
for ourselves.
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
.
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| User: "Ike" |
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| Title: Re: All gods are man-made |
14 Feb 2005 08:28:20 AM |
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"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:mg3111lgcair395h2acj38hped1bg9lfri@4ax.com...
On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 04:00:14 GMT, "Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com>
wrote:
Do you have an example of yourself obeying God? The reason I asked, is I
can prove to you that it isn't obeying God that matters to you. What
matters
to you is self-gratification. In everything you do including posting in
this
newsgroup.
Ok. God said "love one another as I love you" - John 13:34. God said
"when you
do to the least of mine, you do to me" - Mat 25:31-46. Simply put.
We see that love of God is reflected in our recognition that as we are
called to
love one another, to serve one another, to put the needs of the other
before our
own desires, to give to the other rather than put ourselves first.
Naturally,
only Christ never sinned, so we can't fully succeed.
This is best reflected in this little story:
The man dies, goes to the pearly gates, is about to be admitted in, and
requests
a visit to hell first. St Peter says ok. On arrival, the man witnesses
grandeur, food, beauty everywhere, etc but all sad faces. Why? No one in
hell
can bend their elbows and hence can't enjoy the joys of hell.
Going back to heaven, the man finds the same thing. In heaven also, no
one has
elbows that bend, but unlike hell, everybody is very happy. Why? Because
everybody is feeding the other.
God said "love one another as I love you". Our failure is to counter
with
unreserved "I'll decide".
Loving one another is great. Especially others that you feel like loving
at
the moment.
Absolutely the opposite - we're talking about doing for the other before
we do
for ourselves.
The point is, Duke, that you do it because it floats your boat. There is no
Heaven and no Hell, except in your imagination.
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: All gods are man-made |
14 Feb 2005 05:33:10 PM |
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On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:28:20 GMT, "Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
Do you have an example of yourself obeying God? The reason I asked, is I
can prove to you that it isn't obeying God that matters to you. What
matters
to you is self-gratification. In everything you do including posting in
this
newsgroup.
Ok. God said "love one another as I love you" - John 13:34. God said
"when you
do to the least of mine, you do to me" - Mat 25:31-46. Simply put.
We see that love of God is reflected in our recognition that as we are
called to
love one another, to serve one another, to put the needs of the other
before our
own desires, to give to the other rather than put ourselves first.
Naturally,
only Christ never sinned, so we can't fully succeed.
This is best reflected in this little story:
The man dies, goes to the pearly gates, is about to be admitted in, and
requests
a visit to hell first. St Peter says ok. On arrival, the man witnesses
grandeur, food, beauty everywhere, etc but all sad faces. Why? No one in
hell
can bend their elbows and hence can't enjoy the joys of hell.
Going back to heaven, the man finds the same thing. In heaven also, no
one has
elbows that bend, but unlike hell, everybody is very happy. Why? Because
everybody is feeding the other.
God said "love one another as I love you". Our failure is to counter
with
unreserved "I'll decide".
Loving one another is great. Especially others that you feel like loving
at
the moment.
Absolutely the opposite - we're talking about doing for the other before
we do
for ourselves.
The point is, Duke, that you do it because it floats your boat.
I do it because there is no doubt in my mind that God exists, and I want to
accept his promise of eternal life and sharing in his glory. The only way to
defeat death is Jesus Christ.
There is no
Heaven and no Hell, except in your imagination.
Well, you certainly don't have any basis for saying that other than shear fright
at being wrong.
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
.
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| User: "Ike" |
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| Title: Re: All gods are man-made |
14 Feb 2005 08:32:33 PM |
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"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:o4d211pkn97dcnie6hjvfr98kqdb6cc2eb@4ax.com...
On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:28:20 GMT, "Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com>
wrote:
Do you have an example of yourself obeying God? The reason I asked,
is I
can prove to you that it isn't obeying God that matters to you. What
matters
to you is self-gratification. In everything you do including posting
in
this
newsgroup.
Ok. God said "love one another as I love you" - John 13:34. God said
"when you
do to the least of mine, you do to me" - Mat 25:31-46. Simply put.
We see that love of God is reflected in our recognition that as we are
called to
love one another, to serve one another, to put the needs of the other
before our
own desires, to give to the other rather than put ourselves first.
Naturally,
only Christ never sinned, so we can't fully succeed.
This is best reflected in this little story:
The man dies, goes to the pearly gates, is about to be admitted in, and
requests
a visit to hell first. St Peter says ok. On arrival, the man
witnesses
grandeur, food, beauty everywhere, etc but all sad faces. Why? No one
in
hell
can bend their elbows and hence can't enjoy the joys of hell.
Going back to heaven, the man finds the same thing. In heaven also, no
one has
elbows that bend, but unlike hell, everybody is very happy. Why?
Because
everybody is feeding the other.
God said "love one another as I love you". Our failure is to
counter
with
unreserved "I'll decide".
Loving one another is great. Especially others that you feel like
loving
at
the moment.
Absolutely the opposite - we're talking about doing for the other
before
we do
for ourselves.
The point is, Duke, that you do it because it floats your boat.
I do it because there is no doubt in my mind that God exists, and I want
to
accept his promise of eternal life and sharing in his glory. The only way
to
defeat death is Jesus Christ.
There is no
Heaven and no Hell, except in your imagination.
Well, you certainly don't have any basis for saying that other than shear
fright
at being wrong.
Right, I'm shaking in my boots. My point is that your actions are based on
fear. How? You don't want to be like certain other people, because not
having a church to lean on would scare you. Years ago, I heard the story
about people in heaven feeding each other. The person who told it to me was
stone crazy, plus sadistic. It's a totally weird image of all the dead
people not bending their elbows. And what would be the point of having a
Hell and a Heaven like that? Or any kind for that matter? It's a concept
that has nothing to do with my life, hopes, or aspirations. You haven't a
clue about heaven's land mainly because there isn't one for you to go to,
after wasting your life and energy talking about religious fantasies. Even
if I wanted to entertain your religious ideas, I couldn't because they are
just too stupid.
.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: All gods are man-made |
14 Feb 2005 02:53:36 AM |
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On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 07:42:57 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 10:24:12 +0000, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
4. The Christian dogma of sin, based on human beings having free choice
to obey or dis-obey, is untenable as 'sin', killing, fighting, etc.,
already existed millions of years before human beings came about.
??? Mankind accepted sin as a way of life. Mankind was the first.
I do not recall being given a choice.
That's because you were given one at your birth. It's your right, get it.
I was given one at birth? Really?
And pleaseee do not come up
with the Garden of Eden scam again.
It's not a scam, les. The GofE is a specific event for which you and I
experience every day.
What was "original sin" - eating the fruit? Of course not.
God said "do not". A&E said "we'll decide". And that's what you and I struggle
with every day. As human beings, it is our natural flaw. You and I are created
with that flaw, in baptism we are buried with Christ to it in that we will work
to overcome it, and that is our calling as a Christian - to see it, to work to
overcome it, not even to be successful but to try.
Your god gave them an order they
could not possibly understand (assuming the myth is true as told...
by whom?). They had to eat the fruit first to do that!
Nope, eating has nothing to do with it. Saying "no" to God and then "we'll
decide, not you" has everything to do with it.
Exactly but they did not understand that saying no to god was wrong
did they? It required a concept of right and wrong, which they did
not have. It is the equivalent to telling a puppy not to wee on the
carpet.
5. The Christian concept that you can only be saved through accepting
Christ as your Savior is untenable. As 5 billion on earth are not
Christians, it is illogical to assume that 'God' automatically condemns
5 billion out of 6 billion to hell.
That's exactly right. He doesn't. You make the wrong assessment that the
ignorant are condemned. God said just the opposite.
Where does this 'god said' come from? If you quote the Bible please
explain how the people quoted knew what 'god said'. Anything that
demonstrates they did not just simple make it all up like Tolkein did.
The bible is the revealed word of God written in the hand of man.
How do you know?
God said "love one another as I love you". Our failure is to counter with
unreserved "I'll decide".
How do you know?
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
For what?
*****
--
Les Hellawell
greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: All gods are man-made |
14 Feb 2005 06:06:13 AM |
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On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 08:53:36 +0000, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
I do not recall being given a choice.
That's because you were given one at your birth. It's your right, get it.
I was given one at birth? Really?
Yep.
Your god gave them an order they
could not possibly understand (assuming the myth is true as told...
by whom?). They had to eat the fruit first to do that!
Nope, eating has nothing to do with it. Saying "no" to God and then "we'll
decide, not you" has everything to do with it.
Exactly but they did not understand that saying no to god was wrong
did they?
Why do you atheists keep coming up with that same old stale argument. They
admitted knowing what they were not to do. God said "do not", and they said
"we'll decide". That is the sin.
It required a concept of right and wrong, which they did
not have. It is the equivalent to telling a puppy not to wee on the
carpet.
The puppy doesn't understand English.
The bible is the revealed word of God written in the hand of man.
How do you know?
Which part?
God said "love one another as I love you". Our failure is to counter with
unreserved "I'll decide".
How do you know?
Now you're acting like a child.
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: All gods are man-made |
14 Feb 2005 02:52:36 PM |
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On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 06:06:13 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 08:53:36 +0000, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
I do not recall being given a choice.
That's because you were given one at your birth. It's your right, get it.
I was given one at birth? Really?
Yep.
Your god gave them an order they
could not possibly understand (assuming the myth is true as told...
by whom?). They had to eat the fruit first to do that!
Nope, eating has nothing to do with it. Saying "no" to God and then "we'll
decide, not you" has everything to do with it.
Exactly but they did not understand that saying no to god was wrong
did they?
Why do you atheists keep coming up with that same old stale argument. They
admitted knowing what they were not to do. God said "do not", and they said
"we'll decide". That is the sin.
It required a concept of right and wrong, which they did
not have. It is the equivalent to telling a puppy not to wee on the
carpet.
The puppy doesn't understand English.
Exactly, just as Adam and Eve did not understand this god. Sorry but
it is a flawed fable.
The bible is the revealed word of God written in the hand of man.
How do you know?
Which part?
God said "love one another as I love you". Our failure is to counter with
unreserved "I'll decide".
How do you know?
Now you're acting like a child.
No, I was asking you how it is uou know this supposed god said the
above. Should you wish to quote from the Bible please explain
how the writer knew. He could have made it all up for all you know.
You keep dodging this all important question. No doubt you will
again just as you are in denial about Adam and Eve not understanding
the insruction. It might be 'stale' in the sense that we keep saying
this and will keep saying it until the point sinks how. It was a bogus
rigged test from a bogus god.
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
--
Les Hellawell
greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: All gods are man-made |
14 Feb 2005 05:30:10 PM |
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On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 20:52:36 +0000, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
The puppy doesn't understand English.
Exactly, just as Adam and Eve did not understand this god. Sorry but
it is a flawed fable.
What about "do not" do you think they didn't understand? They understood the
devil when he assured them they would not die. Why do you hang your eternal
life on a belief that they were overtaxed?
No, I was asking you how it is uou know this supposed god said the
above. Should you wish to quote from the Bible please explain
how the writer knew. He could have made it all up for all you know.
He didn't necessarily. By the time it was written, it fit the big picture.
You keep dodging this all important question.
No, I'm not dodging it at all. When push comes to shove, the atheist
immediately yells "prove it". I don't have to. I believe. You do not. It's
your funeral in the long run and doesn't impact me. I did what I could to help
you. You and only you will answer for your decision. That's the difference.
I'm neither asking nor demanding you follow me. I'm only suggesting you
reconsider - might you be wrong.
No doubt you will
again just as you are in denial about Adam and Eve not understanding
the insruction.
Yet when the devil asked them why not, they quickly said "because God said so".
God said no, the devil said yet, they chose for them selves. That's the sin.
It's the same decision you and I face ever day. Do we go with God or against
him.
It might be 'stale' in the sense that we keep saying
this and will keep saying it until the point sinks how. It was a bogus
rigged test from a bogus god.
Ok, you and I will both find out for sure one moment after we take our final
breathe on this earth, and then it's too late to change one's mind.
Or as my famous saying goes:
Me: win (hopefully)/no win. Atheist: lose/no win. No win comes into play if
there is no almighty God.
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: All gods are man-made |
15 Feb 2005 05:08:56 AM |
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On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:30:10 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 20:52:36 +0000, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
The puppy doesn't understand English.
Exactly, just as Adam and Eve did not understand this god. Sorry but
it is a flawed fable.
What about "do not" do you think they didn't understand?
Obviously not. Without knowledge of good and evil they could not.
Their mind was a complete blank (if the fable is to believe) so they
could not possibly understand what 'do not' means. It was like a
puppy dog not understanding English. Even if it did it still would
not understand (as does psychopaths BTW who have no concept
of right or wrong and are without conscience) The instruction was
meaningless to them and this god must have known that.
They understood the
devil when he assured them they would not die. Why do you hang your eternal
life on a belief that they were overtaxed?
I don't, the whole things is simply nonesense to me but as you keep
pushing this god believing nonesense on us it seems we have to
try and keep convincing you of those in the hope that you will stop
pestering us with it. The illogicality of it puts it way beyond
belief. I get the impression though that just as Adam had no concept
of good and evil you have no concept of common sense and logic.
No, I was asking you how it is uou know this supposed god said the
above. Should you wish to quote from the Bible please explain
how the writer knew. He could have made it all up for all you know.
He didn't necessarily. By the time it was written, it fit the big picture.
You keep dodging this all important question.
No, I'm not dodging it at all. When push comes to shove, the atheist
immediately yells "prove it". I don't have to. I believe.
Not to yourself no, but you are here trying to convince us. You
keep pestering us and will not go away. If you wish to convince us
of your god belief is simply not enough. You will not understand this
of course but believe without any evidence whatsover is totally
illogical, it is bogus, it is false, it is more liikely wrong and
believing something does not make it so.
You do not. It's
your funeral in the long run and doesn't impact me. I did what I could to help
you. You and only you will answer for your decision. That's the difference.
I'm neither asking nor demanding you follow me. I'm only suggesting you
reconsider - might you be wrong.
About the Christian religion? Absolutely not. The whole thing is
absolutely bogus the biggest hoax ever foisted on mankind. How anybody
can accept that nonesense hook line and sinker... well, nuff said.
As for their being a 'god' or creator. I just have no reason whatsover
to accept or believe their is such a thing and nobody has yet given
me even the slightest reason to change my mind. I cannot start
'believing' it is impossible, I would not know how to deceive myself.
I need a reason.
No doubt you will
again just as you are in denial about Adam and Eve not understanding
the insruction.
Yet when the devil asked them why not, they quickly said "because God said so".
They did not know the difference between 'devil' and 'god' remember.
God and devil were equal in their eyes. Neither was right and neither
was wrong.
God said no, the devil said yet, they chose for them selves. That's the sin.
It's the same decision you and I face ever day. Do we go with God or against
him.
They had no way to know that going with the 'devil' was better or
worse than going with 'god'. They were blind and helpless. Many
retarded children are like that, they will likely follow the last
instruction given them. God could have seen that and repeated
the no again. They would not then have eatern. It was a bogus and
rigged test. A badly written fable. All fable stories and science
fiction are like that. The flaws are always easy to spot but you have
to suspend disbelief to accept and enjoy the story. I do not suspend
disbelief as far as the Bible is concerned and the flaws stand out
like a sore thumb. You will see them to and the whole thing will
fall apart. You only have to open you eyes and look and the truth
will reveal itself to you clearly and shining above all the dark
deceipts and lies. The Bible should be taught to all children so
they can learn how easy it is people can be deceived but it needs
a good teacher to do it.
It might be 'stale' in the sense that we keep saying
this and will keep saying it until the point sinks how. It was a bogus
rigged test from a bogus god.
Ok, you and I will both find out for sure one moment after we take our final
breathe on this earth, and then it's too late to change one's mind.
So you keep saying. It is nothing more than wishfull thinking.
Or as my famous saying goes:
Me: win (hopefully)/no win. Atheist: lose/no win. No win comes into play if
there is no almighty God.
For me there is nothing to loose. I only have one life. I am living
it as well as I can to the full on the assumption that it is the only
one I get. Anything else is a totally unexpected bonus. I have
no fear of death, only dying. As this conversation regarding death
and your vain hope of an afterlife has been repeated ad-nauseum
I will ignore any further repeating of it in future.
--
Les Hellawell
greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
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| User: "Richard Smol" |
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| Title: Re: All gods are man-made |
12 Feb 2005 09:12:14 AM |
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duke wrote:
On 11 Feb 2005 22:58:41 -0800, wrote:
Self-evident truths for me:
(Whatever is self-evident for one, is not necessarily self-evident
for somebody else)
From the looks of your list, I'd say you are the lone ranger.
1. All religions are man-made, which means all gods are man-made
All but one is man-made. The one and only true faith is God made.
On what grounds do you discard the other gods, but keep this one?
There is no indication that this one god would be real, compared
to the others.
2. The Christian concept of a soul is untenable, as nowhere in the long
line of evolution the soul was suddenly inserted at a discrete point.
That's right, it has been there since God created man.
Unsupported assertion.
I.e., if we assume that the soul was inserted in a living being 1
million years ago, can we then reasonably argue that his or her father
and mother did not have a soul? We cannot. This means: All living
beings have a soul or no living beings have a soul. The concept of
a soul in each human being and only in human beings then is untenable.
Your argument is false because you start off with "if".
Indeed, there is no indication that this soul exists, let
alone that it has been "inserted" at some time.
3. There is no heaven and hell.
Sure there is. God said so.
Where? When? And don't point to the Bible, since that one is
clearly man-made as well.
If there is no heaven and hell, does it follow there is no after-life?
Your argument is false because you start off with "if".
No, it is false because it's a non sequitur. Then again, it was phrased
as a question.
4. The Christian dogma of sin, based on human beings having free choice
to obey or dis-obey, is untenable as 'sin', killing, fighting, etc.,
already existed millions of years before human beings came about.
??? Mankind accepted sin as a way of life. Mankind was the first.
If you believe that your god is all-powerful, then he would be
the one who created sin... and that would make him resonsible.
5. The Christian concept that you can only be saved through accepting
Christ as your Savior is untenable. As 5 billion on earth are not
Christians, it is illogical to assume that 'God' automatically condemns
5 billion out of 6 billion to hell.
That's exactly right. He doesn't. You make the wrong assessment that the
ignorant are condemned. God said just the opposite.
According to this logic, someone's best bet would be to not have heard
about Christianity at all.
Oh, well. Your testament is extraordinarily weak. There is no point in reading
on.
It actually makes a lot more sense than the Christian doctrine.
RS
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: All gods are man-made |
12 Feb 2005 01:53:45 PM |
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On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 15:12:14 GMT, Richard Smol
<jazzcat@_NOSPAM_dds.nl> wrote:
duke wrote:
On 11 Feb 2005 22:58:41 -0800, wrote:
Self-evident truths for me:
(Whatever is self-evident for one, is not necessarily self-evident
for somebody else)
From the looks of your list, I'd say you are the lone ranger.
1. All religions are man-made, which means all gods are man-made
All but one is man-made. The one and only true faith is God made.
On what grounds do you discard the other gods, but keep this one?
There is no indication that this one god would be real, compared
to the others.
Forget it right there.
Duke is too ignorant to understand what you just said. He'll point out
some reason his god is different....found only in the bible. He'll
point out that others witnessed said distinction....found only in the
bible. He seems incapable of comprehending that if someone just sat
down and wrote a book of fairy tales, there would be as much proof for
the characters in that book as he has for the characters in his book.
He'll point out that the proof is all around us, not even realizing
that with that logic, we can prove every other god ever created by
man.
He'll point out that there are historically correct events in the
bible...not even realizing that such a thing is called a "period
piece"... fiction set in an historically accurate setting. Hey, hand
it to the goathearders...they told stories about what they knew.
He'll point out that prophecies were fulfilled in the NT from the
OT...not even realizing that such a phenomenon is called a sequel.
No, face it. Duke is brainwashed and stupid...fucking stupid...and he
doesn't even realize that either.
Now, I'll probably get the ole "It's your funeral" speech.
--
zamboni #2139
BAAWA Assistant to the Vice-Administrator of Malevolence
EAC Tertiary Adjunct to the Dispenser of Obfuscation.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: All gods are man-made |
12 Feb 2005 01:17:38 PM |
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On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 15:12:14 GMT, Richard Smol <jazzcat@_NOSPAM_dds.nl> wrote:
On what grounds do you discard the other gods, but keep this one?
Only one died, was buried in a cave, and walked out on the 3rd day.
If you believe that your god is all-powerful, then he would be
the one who created sin... and that would make him resonsible.
He created man, which has a sin nature. God knows that and call us to repent
and clean up our act.
Oh, well. Your testament is extraordinarily weak. There is no point in reading
on.
It actually makes a lot more sense than the Christian doctrine.
Only to you.
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
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| User: "BDK" |
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| Title: Re: All gods are man-made |
13 Feb 2005 01:17:40 AM |
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In article <9els01180frjr3jnjhs6b8q86ack5110c9@4ax.com>, duckgumbo32
@cox.net says...
On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 15:12:14 GMT, Richard Smol <jazzcat@_NOSPAM_dds.nl> wrote:
On what grounds do you discard the other gods, but keep this one?
Only one died, was buried in a cave, and walked out on the 3rd day.
So your book claims, no proof at all.
If you believe that your god is all-powerful, then he would be
the one who created sin... and that would make him resonsible.
He created man, which has a sin nature. God knows that and call us to repent
and clean up our act.
So your book claims, no proof at all.
Oh, well. Your testament is extraordinarily weak. There is no point in reading
on.
It actually makes a lot more sense than the Christian doctrine.
Only to you.
No, only to any sane person, so you wouldn't know about that.
BDK
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: All gods are man-made |
13 Feb 2005 07:21:59 AM |
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On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 02:17:40 -0500, BDK <kingratatatboy@buckeye-express.com>
wrote:
Only one died, was buried in a cave, and walked out on the 3rd day.
So your book claims, no proof at all.
Actually, it was an event witnessed by hundreds, and the story has never died
out in 2000 years.
If you believe that your god is all-powerful, then he would be
the one who created sin... and that would make him resonsible.
He created man, which has a sin nature. God knows that and call us to repent
and clean up our act.
So your book claims, no proof at all.
Hey, it's your funeral.
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
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| User: "BDK" |
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| Title: Re: All gods are man-made |
13 Feb 2005 11:28:10 AM |
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In article <fvku01p832f7um7spqskq09j83g7ir1btg@4ax.com>, duckgumbo32
@cox.net says...
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 02:17:40 -0500, BDK <kingratatatboy@buckeye-express.com>
wrote:
Only one died, was buried in a cave, and walked out on the 3rd day.
So your book claims, no proof at all.
Actually, it was an event witnessed by hundreds, and the story has never died
out in 2000 years.
If you believe that your god is all-powerful, then he would be
the one who created sin... and that would make him resonsible.
He created man, which has a sin nature. God knows that and call us to repent
and clean up our act.
So your book claims, no proof at all.
Hey, it's your funeral.
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
No Dukey, it's an "event" claimed to be witnessed by hundreds, but it
probably wasn't, since the bible is the only source this info. And, as
always, your threats don't scare me in the slightest
That aint gonna fly.
Speaking of flying, design any more deadly turbofans lately??
You and everyone else involved with putting it into the F14 should have
gotten several hundred cattle prod shocks to their genitals as a quick
and non lethal punishment, administered by the widows and children of
the dead pilots...of course..
Then you should have been made to sign your pensions over to the
families too.
BDK
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: All gods are man-made |
13 Feb 2005 03:33:07 PM |
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On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 12:28:10 -0500, BDK <kingratatatboy@buckeye-express.com>
wrote:
No Dukey, it's an "event" claimed to be witnessed by hundreds, but it
probably wasn't, since the bible is the only source this info. And, as
always, your threats don't scare me in the slightest
Are you saying that the American Revolution was claimed to be witnessed but
probably wasn't? It's the same thing.
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
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| User: "Bill" |
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| Title: Re: All gods are man-made |
12 Feb 2005 10:27:01 AM |
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Unfortunalty the religious fanatics will not accept objective evidence. They
rely totally on their created evidence.
--
Bill
"Richard Smol" <jazzcat@_NOSPAM_dds.nl> wrote in message
news:i1pPd.35008$o9.1590@amsnews03-serv.chello.com...
duke wrote:
On 11 Feb 2005 22:58:41 -0800, wrote:
Self-evident truths for me:
(Whatever is self-evident for one, is not necessarily self-evident
for somebody else)
From the looks of your list, I'd say you are the lone ranger.
1. All religions are man-made, which means all gods are man-made
All but one is man-made. The one and only true faith is God made.
On what grounds do you discard the other gods, but keep this one?
There is no indication that this one god would be real, compared
to the others.
2. The Christian concept of a soul is untenable, as nowhere in the long
line of evolution the soul was suddenly inserted at a discrete point.
That's right, it has been there since God created man.
Unsupported assertion.
I.e., if we assume that the soul was inserted in a living being 1
million years ago, can we then reasonably argue that his or her father
and mother did not have a soul? We cannot. This means: All living
beings have a soul or no living beings have a soul. The concept of
a soul in each human being and only in human beings then is untenable.
Your argument is false because you start off with "if".
Indeed, there is no indication that this soul exists, let
alone that it has been "inserted" at some time.
3. There is no heaven and hell.
Sure there is. God said so.
Where? When? And don't point to the Bible, since that one is
clearly man-made as well.
If there is no heaven and hell, does it follow there is no after-life?
Your argument is false because you start off with "if".
No, it is false because it's a non sequitur. Then again, it was phrased
as a question.
4. The Christian dogma of sin, based on human beings having free choice
to obey or dis-obey, is untenable as 'sin', killing, fighting, etc.,
already existed millions of years before human beings came about.
??? Mankind accepted sin as a way of life. Mankind was the first.
If you believe that your god is all-powerful, then he would be
the one who created sin... and that would make him resonsible.
5. The Christian concept that you can only be saved through accepting
Christ as your Savior is untenable. As 5 billion on earth are not
Christians, it is illogical to assume that 'God' automatically condemns
5 billion out of 6 billion to hell.
That's exactly right. He doesn't. You make the wrong assessment that
the
ignorant are condemned. God said just the opposite.
According to this logic, someone's best bet would be to not have heard
about Christianity at all.
Oh, well. Your testament is extraordinarily weak. There is no point in
reading
on.
It actually makes a lot more sense than the Christian doctrine.
RS
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: All gods are man-made |
12 Feb 2005 01:35:18 PM |
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On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 16:27:01 GMT, "Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
Unfortunalty the religious fanatics will not accept objective evidence. They
rely
Wow, are you confused. No wonder you're an atheist.
duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
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