| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Fredric L. Rice" |
| Date: |
23 Nov 2005 04:58:34 AM |
| Object: |
Allah keeps winning! Thanks, Bush! |
Islamist gains in Egypt give Washington pause
Tue Nov 22, 2005 10:36 PM IST
By Jonathan Wright
http://in.today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2005-11-22T222527Z_01_NOOTR_RTRJONC_0_India-224652-1..xml&archived=False
CAIRO (Reuters) - The United States inadvertently helped Egypt's Islamists
make strong electoral gains this month and is now rethinking the wisdom of
pressing rapid democratic change in a major Arab country, analysts said on
Tuesday.
The Muslim Brotherhood, making the most of the more open atmosphere which
Washington has promoted, has already tripled its strength in parliament to
47 of the 444 elected seats, with more than half the seats yet to be
decided.
The secular opposition parties which Washington favoured have performed
poorly, picking up only a handful of seats -- way short of the five percent
threshold they would need if they want to field a candidate in presidential
elections.
Although the Brotherhood has no chance of breaking the government's control
over parliament, this outcome has given the Bush administration pause and
strengthened the hand of those in Washington who value stability over
democracy, the analysts say.
"The Americans have reassessed the situation and come to the conclusion
that
fast and vigorous democratisation in Egypt is impossible and will work in
an
undesirable way," said Mohamed el-Sayed Said, a political analyst at a
Cairo
think-tank.
The Egyptian vote so far has bolstered the view that free and fair
elections
could enable Islamist parties hostile to U.S. policies to gain strength in
several Middle Eastern countries.
Washington insiders are now advising the U.S. State Department not to
abandon existing Arab governments without clear alternatives and instead to
work on long-term structural changes and ways to influence Arab public
opinion, Said said.
"I think they managed to change the policy when it comes to Egypt," said
Said, deputy director of the government-funded al-Ahram Centre for
Political
and Strategic Studies.
The change in tone is evident in public statements from the White House and
U.S. State Department, which have largely fallen silent on Egypt after
frequent comments on the presidential elections in September, won by
President Hosni Mubarak.
In a rare comment on Monday, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack
criticised election violence but said he had reason to believe the Egyptian
government wanted voting to be peaceful.
Independent monitors say most of the violence has been by ruling party
supporters, with the police standing aside.
MORE TALK THAN SUBSTANCE
Josh Stacher, an independent analyst who followed Sunday's voting in the
Nile Delta, said much of the Bush administration's talk about Middle East
democracy was for U.S. home consumption.
The U.S. campaign began after early justifications for invading Iraq began
to lose credibility.
"The game has not switched that much. The United States now supports a form
of authoritarianism less driven by state violence. As long as the state is
not seen as clashing with citizens, they are unwilling to go out on a
limb,"
he added.
"The reality of the situation suggests the United States is involved in
'authoritarian adaptation' -- changing the appearance but not the
substance," he said.
The United States supports the Egyptian government's refusal to recognise
the Muslim Brotherhood as a party, although it is clearly the strongest
opposition force in the country.
And, like the Egyptian government media, U.S. officials rarely mention the
Islamist group by name.
But the group has benefited from U.S. calls for change, which have helped
to
open up debate in Egypt and emboldened civil society groups to monitor
elections much more closely.
Saadeddin Ibrahim, a sociologist and democracy activist, said U.S. pressure
for the release of political prisoners had also ended up helping the
Brotherhood. Some of those set free were important in the Brotherhood's
campaign, he said.
Ibrahim, who is well-connected in Washington, said U.S. officials were
"very
disappointed" at the poor electoral showing of the secular Ghad and Wafd
parties. Those parties are the most sympathetic to liberal democracy but
lack the mobilising power and resources of Mubarak's ruling party or the
Brotherhood.
Ghad Party leader Ayman Nour, who came second to Mubarak in the
presidential
elections, lost his seat in parliament and his followers have not yet won a
single victory.
"The Americans have had to reassess their bets on these forces, which
obviously failed to materialise," said Said.
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.rightard.org/ http://www.thedarkwind.org/
"We're going to sue your *****, AND your balls!" -- Scientology's leader
.
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Allah keeps winning! Thanks, Bush! |
23 Nov 2005 05:25:17 AM |
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"Fredric L. Rice" <FRice@SkepticTank.ORG> wrote
Islamist gains in Egypt give Washington pause
Yeah, right.
You're talking about Bush here, right?
You're talking about the President who looked at the Islamic
state of Iran pumping cash into every terrorist group on
the planet... backing Al Qaida... trying to buy Nigerian yellow
cake... buying parts, blueprints & an entire working
centrifuge for enriching uranium... you're talking about a
President who looked at all this, and then invaded a secular
state which was the neighbor to the Islamic state of Iran.
Yeah, I'm sure he's crying over Islamic whack-jobs taking
over yet another country. Sure. That's it. Right. That's the
ticket.
Bush *Loves* democracy. You can tell by the way he
launches his smearboat campaigns against democrats &
holds hands with Saudi despots.
.
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| User: "Richard Dawkins" |
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| Title: Re: Allah keeps winning! Thanks, Bush! |
23 Nov 2005 05:25:48 AM |
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"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:XOqdnbR7LqY5Zx7eRVn-hA@comcast.com...
"Fredric L. Rice" <FRice@SkepticTank.ORG> wrote
Allah keeps winning! Thanks, Bush!
And the God-Hating idiot keeps cross posting
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Allah keeps winning! Thanks, Bush! |
23 Nov 2005 12:46:27 PM |
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"Richard Dawkins" <Dawkins@Hell.com> wrote
And I'm into farm animals, too!
Damn. You are one sick *****.
.
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| User: "Midjis" |
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| Title: Re: Allah keeps winning! Thanks, Bush! |
23 Nov 2005 02:43:07 PM |
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"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Richard Dawkins" <Dawkins@Hell.com> wrote
And I'm into farm animals, too!
Damn. You are one sick *****.
I take it this is an example of 'the end justifies the means'-style
reasoning? That it doesn't matter what you have to do as long as you get
one over on the person you oppose?
I'm no fan of the coward who forges posts under the name of Richard
Dawkins, but seriously...
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Allah keeps winning! Thanks, Bush! |
24 Nov 2005 12:49:38 AM |
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"Midjis" <midwinter_m@hotmail.co.uk> wrote
I take it this is an example of 'the end justifies the
means'-style reasoning?
You're talking about the quote "Richard Dawkins"
invented, right?
.
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| User: "Tom" |
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| Title: Re: Allah keeps winning! Thanks, Bush! |
23 Nov 2005 07:06:06 PM |
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"Midjis" <midwinter_m@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Xns971795E306CAEZRHGRGGNVWLDRAVKW@213.123.26.234...
"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Richard Dawkins" <Dawkins@Hell.com> wrote
And I'm into farm animals, too!
Damn. You are one sick *****.
I take it this is an example of 'the end justifies the means'-style
reasoning? That it doesn't matter what you have to do as long as you get
one over on the person you oppose?
I'm no fan of the coward who forges posts under the name of Richard
Dawkins, but seriously...
The person who posts under the name "Richard Dawkins" is a worthless *****
who deserves anything anyone can pin on him, legal or otherwise.
.
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Allah keeps winning! Thanks, Bush! |
24 Nov 2005 12:38:36 AM |
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"Tom" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote
The person who posts under the name "Richard
Dawkins" is a worthless ***** who deserves
anything anyone can pin on him, legal or otherwise.
Relax. If "Midjis" even noticed that the
personality-disorder posting under the name "Richard
Dawkins" invented a quote, they certainly didn't care.
But they DID notice and DID care when I returned the
favor....
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| User: "Midjis" |
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| Title: Re: Allah keeps winning! Thanks, Bush! |
24 Nov 2005 11:17:39 AM |
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"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote:
Relax. If "Midjis" even noticed that the
personality-disorder posting under the name "Richard
Dawkins" invented a quote, they certainly didn't care.
Why assume so? In actual fact, I did not. Had I noticed I would have been
more than happy to ask "Richard" the same thing.
All you needed to do was reference or repeat the false quote "Richard"
posted. But no - you presumed I had already seen it and chosen to ignore
it.
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| User: "Colin Day" |
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| Title: Re: Allah keeps winning! Thanks, Bush! |
26 Nov 2005 02:02:10 AM |
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Midjis wrote:
"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote:
Relax. If "Midjis" even noticed that the
personality-disorder posting under the name "Richard
Dawkins" invented a quote, they certainly didn't care.
Why assume so? In actual fact, I did not. Had I noticed I would have been
more than happy to ask "Richard" the same thing.
But as Richard's post was the parent of the post you criticized, it would
seem that you didn't take much effort to find it.
All you needed to do was reference or repeat the false quote "Richard"
posted. But no - you presumed I had already seen it and chosen to ignore
it.
Colin Day aa #1500
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: Allah keeps winning! Thanks, Bush! |
24 Nov 2005 03:15:13 AM |
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Midjis <midwinter_m@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Richard Dawkins" <Dawkins@Hell.com> wrote
And I'm into farm animals, too!
Damn. You are one sick *****.
I take it this is an example of 'the end justifies the means'-style
reasoning? That it doesn't matter what you have to do as long as you get
one over on the person you oppose?
It's possible you haven't been paying attention. JTEM has been
soundly "getting one over on" this anonymous clown you're whineing
about every day.
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.rightard.org/ http://www.thedarkwind.org/
"We're going to sue your *****, AND your balls!" -- Scientology's leader
.
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: Allah keeps winning! Thanks, Bush! |
23 Nov 2005 11:49:45 AM |
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"Richard Dawkins" <Dawkins@Hell.com> wrote:
"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:XOqdnbR7LqY5Zx7eRVn-hA@comcast.com...
"Fredric L. Rice" <FRice@SkepticTank.ORG> wrote
Allah keeps winning! Thanks, Bush!
And the God-Hating idiot keeps cross posting
<rofl!> Your mass murdering Christian Fuhrer is losing to Allah.
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.rightard.org/ http://www.thedarkwind.org/
"We're going to sue your *****, AND your balls!" -- Scientology's leader
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Allah keeps winning! Thanks, Bush! |
23 Nov 2005 05:29:13 AM |
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In <11o7tmpnr7h3f09@corp.supernews.com>, (Fredric L.
Rice) wrote:
Islamist gains in Egypt give Washington pause Tue Nov 22, 2005 10:36 PM
IST
By Jonathan Wright
http://in.today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2005-11-22T222527Z_01_NOOTR_RTRJONC_0_India-224652-1..xml&archived=False
CAIRO (Reuters) - The United States inadvertently helped Egypt's Islamists
make strong electoral gains this month and is now rethinking the wisdom of
pressing rapid democratic change in a major Arab country, analysts said on
Tuesday.
The Muslim Brotherhood, making the most of the more open atmosphere which
Washington has promoted, has already tripled its strength in parliament to
47 of the 444 elected seats, with more than half the seats yet to be
decided.
The secular opposition parties which Washington favoured have performed
poorly, picking up only a handful of seats -- way short of the five
percent
<snip>
Weren't the neocons just hooting over how great the changes in Egypt were?
How "Bush was right" and all that? Why, it seems only yesterday...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
Forgotten Already
http://makeashorterlink.com/?H1233272C
Feds are treating Louisiana like enemy
"...it may be that they may have written us off."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?O21E51C1C
http://www.nola.com
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: Allah keeps winning! Thanks, Bush! |
23 Nov 2005 11:50:40 AM |
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
In <11o7tmpnr7h3f09@corp.supernews.com>, (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
Islamist gains in Egypt give Washington pause Tue Nov 22, 2005 10:36 PMIST
By Jonathan Wright
http://in.today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2005-11-22T222527Z_01_NOOTR_RTRJONC_0_India-224652-1..xml&archived=False
Weren't the neocons just hooting over how great the changes in Egypt were?
How "Bush was right" and all that? Why, it seems only yesterday...
The neocons keep claiming that their brand of "Democracy" is flooding
into the Middle East and taking over.
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.rightard.org/ http://www.thedarkwind.org/
"We're going to sue your *****, AND your balls!" -- Scientology's leader
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Allah keeps winning! Thanks, Bush! |
23 Nov 2005 08:14:52 PM |
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Fredric L. Rice wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
In <11o7tmpnr7h3f09@corp.supernews.com>, (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
Islamist gains in Egypt give Washington pause Tue Nov 22, 2005 10:36 PMIST
By Jonathan Wright
http://in.today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2005-11-22T222527Z_01_NOOTR_RTRJONC_0_India-224652-1..xml&archived=False
Weren't the neocons just hooting over how great the changes in Egypt were?
How "Bush was right" and all that? Why, it seems only yesterday...
The neocons keep claiming that their brand of "Democracy" is flooding
into the Middle East and taking over.
Ummm... they're right, aren't they?
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.rightard.org/ http://www.thedarkwind.org/
"We're going to sue your *****, AND your balls!" -- Scientology's leader
Kermit
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: Allah keeps winning! Thanks, Bush! |
24 Nov 2005 03:15:14 AM |
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wrote:
Fredric L. Rice wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
In <11o7tmpnr7h3f09@corp.supernews.com>, (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
Islamist gains in Egypt give Washington pause Tue Nov 22, 2005 10:36 PMIST
By Jonathan Wright
http://in.today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2005-11-22T222527Z_01_NOOTR_RTRJONC_0_India-224652-1..xml&archived=False
Weren't the neocons just hooting over how great the changes in Egypt were?
How "Bush was right" and all that? Why, it seems only yesterday...
The neocons keep claiming that their brand of "Democracy" is flooding
into the Middle East and taking over.
Ummm... they're right, aren't they?
Well, if one can call Bush-style "Democracy" where votes don't count
unless it's athe corporate vote a "Democracy," I suppose.
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.rightard.org/ http://www.thedarkwind.org/
"We're going to sue your *****, AND your balls!" -- Scientology's leader
.
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