| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"j_brisby" |
| Date: |
20 Jul 2004 04:56:02 AM |
| Object: |
America: Founded on Christian or Atheist principles? |
America founded on Christian values? We hear it all the time. How
should one respond? Perhaps by actually looking at what some of the
values we hold dear actually are, and then questioning whether they
are Christian or not. It'll be a wild ride. Ready?
Surely, the most fundamental value that America is founded on would be
LIBERTY. We are all free to choose our own path, forge our own
destiny. This is, of course, what atheists have been saying from the
beginning, but when Christians say that LIBERTY is a Christian value,
they lie. Christianity teaches that the noblest thing any man can do
is to surrender his free will and become an instrument of God.
LIBERTY is actually seen as a negative thing in Christian doctrine;
being that we are all corrupt, fallen creatures, LIBERTY is the evil
to be avoided at all costs. It inevitably leads to sin.
Then of course, there is DEMOCRACY. Here, the argument is even
simpler, and even more obviously atheistic in origin. Consider what
DEMOCRACY means: that authority ultimately derives from the people.
Now consider what Christianity teaches: that authority ultimately
derives from God. Pretty contradictory ideas, wouldn't you agree?
In fact, if you think about it, even such a general concept as HUMAN
RIGHTS has no real meaning under Christianity. Humans, as I've said,
are taught in Christianity to be worthless, vile, fallen, corrupt,
incompetent, evil, base, contemptible creatures whom God loves -- not
because we are worthy of love, no, just the opposite; because of
God's infinite capacity for love. To speak of HUMAN RIGHTS in
Christianity makes no sense; one cannot say that humans 'deserve' any
sort of consideration from God. The only thing we truly deserve, at
least according to Christians, is infinite torment in Hell. I mean,
can you imagine a Christian claiming that it violates our rights when
God sends his disasters upon us? Of course not. God is King and can
do whatever He pleases to us.
How about EQUALITY? Christianity makes no bones about the fact that
only they are going to Heaven, only they have the truth, only they
have God's favor, and as for the rest of us poor slobs, Christians
don't even want the dust from our homes to be on the soles of their
shoes! We're THAT inferior! In fact, the New Testament is filled
with metaphorical descriptions of non-Christians as garbage to be
thrown away; we're the dead branch that will be cut off, or the salt
that has lost its saltiness, or the aforementioned dust. And I won't
even get into what the Bible says about women!
Next, consider the PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. The very notion that life is
something to enjoy, that happiness is a worthwhile pursuit, has no
place in Christianity. We are not here to be happy. We are here to
serve God. This world is a vale of tears, and man is born to trouble
as the sparks fly upwards. Happiness is for after you're dead; until
then, you endure.
Finally, one where Christians actually have an arguable point;
TOLERANCE. I say 'arguable,' because one can make a Biblical case for
the idea that TOLERANCE is a Christian virtue...Jesus' tolerance of
prostitutes and lepers; the Good Samaritan, etc. However, it can't be
ignored that the greatest opponents of tolerance in America today,
just happen to be.......Christians! In fact, every time Christians
appear on T.V. to vent about some issue or other, they always seem to
be trying to ban something, or condemn something, or invoke God's
wrath on something, blah blah blah. Case in point: the Pledge of
Allegience. Atheists said that this was religious indoctrination, and
thus had no place in public schools, adding that Christians were
certainly free to indoctrinate their own kids any way they saw fit.
Christians responded that removing two words from the pledge violated
their rights and threatened the future of the Church. Obviously, the
two sides agreed on one thing: the Pledge is indeed religious
indoctrination. Otherwise, it's hard to imagine Christians being
threatened by its change. And so, we saw a non-stop stream of ranting
about how everybody and their pony was going to hell if Christians
didn't get their way. Not too tolerant, if you ask me. Of course,
there's no substitute for being right, and the mere fact that the
Supreme Court chickened out of making a decision speaks volumes. Is
there any doubt that they would have ruled in favor of the 'Under God'
inclusion if they could have found even the slightest excuse to do so?
They didn't, ergo, they couldn't. It was the atheists, as usual,
fighting for tolerance in this case, just like they fight for
tolerance for homosexuals, unpopular speech, and anything even
remotely fun.
So, there you have it. America is not founded on Christian
principles. In fact, it's about as un-Christian a nation as you can
get. America, in other words, is great not because of Christianity,
but in spite of it. Christianity, to the extent that it is bearable
at all, is bearable only because it has been tamed by several hundred
years of atheistic, humanistic, constitutional liberal democracy.
But, it shouldn't surprise anyone that such an un-Christian nation
should be populated mostly by Christians. After all, there are many
nations that perfectly epitomize Christian values which are populated
mostly by Muslims.
.
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| User: "Callipygian Nullifidian" |
|
| Title: Re: America: Founded on Christian or Atheist principles? |
20 Jul 2004 05:18:19 AM |
|
|
"j_brisby" <skeptic@rocketmail.com> wrote in message
news:ad9a9bd3.0407200156.5ee53335@posting.google.com...
: America founded on Christian values? We hear it all the time. How
: should one respond? Perhaps by actually looking at what some of the
: values we hold dear actually are, and then questioning whether they
: are Christian or not. It'll be a wild ride. Ready?
[snip]
: But, it shouldn't surprise anyone that such an un-Christian nation
: should be populated mostly by Christians. After all, there are many
: nations that perfectly epitomize Christian values which are
populated
: mostly by Muslims.
Very nice, very nice indeed.....
.
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| User: "duke" |
|
| Title: Re: America: Founded on Christian or Atheist principles? |
20 Jul 2004 07:54:21 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 05:18:19 -0500, "Callipygian Nullifidian" <mulberry@ameritech.net>
wrote:
"j_brisby" <skeptic@rocketmail.com> wrote in message
news:ad9a9bd3.0407200156.5ee53335@posting.google.com...
: America founded on Christian values? We hear it all the time. How
: should one respond? Perhaps by actually looking at what some of the
: values we hold dear actually are, and then questioning whether they
: are Christian or not. It'll be a wild ride. Ready?
[snip]
: But, it shouldn't surprise anyone that such an un-Christian nation
: should be populated mostly by Christians. After all, there are many
: nations that perfectly epitomize Christian values which are
populated
: mostly by Muslims.
Very nice, very nice indeed.....
Word of a genuine idiot.
duke
*****
Matthew 11
28"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened,
and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you
and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in
heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
30For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."
*****
.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
|
| Title: Re: America: Founded on Christian or Atheist principles? |
20 Jul 2004 05:13:11 AM |
|
|
(j_brisby) wrote in alt.atheism
America founded on Christian values? We hear it all the time. How
should one respond? Perhaps by actually looking at what some of the
values we hold dear actually are, and then questioning whether they
are Christian or not. It'll be a wild ride. Ready?
Surely, the most fundamental value that America is founded on would be
LIBERTY. We are all free to choose our own path, forge our own
destiny. This is, of course, what atheists have been saying from the
beginning, but when Christians say that LIBERTY is a Christian value,
they lie. Christianity teaches that the noblest thing any man can do
is to surrender his free will and become an instrument of God.
LIBERTY is actually seen as a negative thing in Christian doctrine;
being that we are all corrupt, fallen creatures, LIBERTY is the evil
to be avoided at all costs. It inevitably leads to sin.
Then of course, there is DEMOCRACY. Here, the argument is even
simpler, and even more obviously atheistic in origin. Consider what
DEMOCRACY means: that authority ultimately derives from the people.
Now consider what Christianity teaches: that authority ultimately
derives from God. Pretty contradictory ideas, wouldn't you agree?
In fact, if you think about it, even such a general concept as HUMAN
RIGHTS has no real meaning under Christianity. Humans, as I've said,
are taught in Christianity to be worthless, vile, fallen, corrupt,
incompetent, evil, base, contemptible creatures whom God loves -- not
because we are worthy of love, no, just the opposite; because of
God's infinite capacity for love. To speak of HUMAN RIGHTS in
Christianity makes no sense; one cannot say that humans 'deserve' any
sort of consideration from God. The only thing we truly deserve, at
least according to Christians, is infinite torment in Hell. I mean,
can you imagine a Christian claiming that it violates our rights when
God sends his disasters upon us? Of course not. God is King and can
do whatever He pleases to us.
How about EQUALITY? Christianity makes no bones about the fact that
only they are going to Heaven, only they have the truth, only they
have God's favor, and as for the rest of us poor slobs, Christians
don't even want the dust from our homes to be on the soles of their
shoes! We're THAT inferior! In fact, the New Testament is filled
with metaphorical descriptions of non-Christians as garbage to be
thrown away; we're the dead branch that will be cut off, or the salt
that has lost its saltiness, or the aforementioned dust. And I won't
even get into what the Bible says about women!
Next, consider the PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. The very notion that life is
something to enjoy, that happiness is a worthwhile pursuit, has no
place in Christianity. We are not here to be happy. We are here to
serve God. This world is a vale of tears, and man is born to trouble
as the sparks fly upwards. Happiness is for after you're dead; until
then, you endure.
Finally, one where Christians actually have an arguable point;
TOLERANCE. I say 'arguable,' because one can make a Biblical case for
the idea that TOLERANCE is a Christian virtue...Jesus' tolerance of
prostitutes and lepers; the Good Samaritan, etc. However, it can't be
ignored that the greatest opponents of tolerance in America today,
just happen to be.......Christians! In fact, every time Christians
appear on T.V. to vent about some issue or other, they always seem to
be trying to ban something, or condemn something, or invoke God's
wrath on something, blah blah blah. Case in point: the Pledge of
Allegience. Atheists said that this was religious indoctrination, and
thus had no place in public schools, adding that Christians were
certainly free to indoctrinate their own kids any way they saw fit.
Christians responded that removing two words from the pledge violated
their rights and threatened the future of the Church. Obviously, the
two sides agreed on one thing: the Pledge is indeed religious
indoctrination. Otherwise, it's hard to imagine Christians being
threatened by its change. And so, we saw a non-stop stream of ranting
about how everybody and their pony was going to hell if Christians
didn't get their way. Not too tolerant, if you ask me. Of course,
there's no substitute for being right, and the mere fact that the
Supreme Court chickened out of making a decision speaks volumes. Is
there any doubt that they would have ruled in favor of the 'Under God'
inclusion if they could have found even the slightest excuse to do so?
They didn't, ergo, they couldn't. It was the atheists, as usual,
fighting for tolerance in this case, just like they fight for
tolerance for homosexuals, unpopular speech, and anything even
remotely fun.
So, there you have it. America is not founded on Christian
principles. In fact, it's about as un-Christian a nation as you can
get. America, in other words, is great not because of Christianity,
but in spite of it. Christianity, to the extent that it is bearable
at all, is bearable only because it has been tamed by several hundred
years of atheistic, humanistic, constitutional liberal democracy.
But, it shouldn't surprise anyone that such an un-Christian nation
should be populated mostly by Christians.
After all, there are many nations that perfectly epitomize Christian values
which are populated mostly by Muslims.
Which nations?
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
.
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| User: "JPG" |
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| Title: Re: America: Founded on Christian or Atheist principles? |
20 Jul 2004 06:19:01 AM |
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On 20 Jul 2004 02:56:02 -0700, (j_brisby) wrote:
America founded on Christian values? We hear it all the time. How
should one respond? Perhaps by actually looking at what some of the
values we hold dear actually are, and then questioning whether they
are Christian or not. It'll be a wild ride. Ready?
Good post - were not many of the original settlers escaping religious
persecution?
Also the laws are secular, being based on English common law not the 10
commandments, as many Christians would have you believe.
I don't think enough time is given to critical thinking and scepticism in
schools - if only people had the intellectual tools they would probably be able
to dismantle all the superstitious and dangerous nonsense that is religion and
rightfully consign it to the scrap-heap of history.
I wish!
JPG
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: America: Founded on Christian or Atheist principles? |
20 Jul 2004 07:55:31 PM |
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On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:19:01 +0100, JPG <me@privacy.net> wrote:
I don't think enough time is given to critical thinking and scepticism in
schools - if only people had the intellectual tools they would probably be able
to dismantle all the superstitious and dangerous nonsense that is religion and
rightfully consign it to the scrap-heap of history.
How are you going to scrap the concepts of eternal love of God?
Huh, jpg?
duke
*****
Matthew 11
28"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened,
and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you
and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in
heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
30For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."
*****
.
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| User: "j_brisby" |
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| Title: Re: America: Founded on Christian or Atheist principles? |
21 Jul 2004 07:03:07 AM |
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How are you going to scrap the concepts of eternal love of God?
Huh, jpg?
duke
There's no need to scrap it. Like so many things which aren't real,
eternal love of God goes away on its own if you stop believing in it.
.
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| User: "JPG" |
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| Title: Re: America: Founded on Christian or Atheist principles? |
21 Jul 2004 10:18:33 AM |
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On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 19:55:31 -0500, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:19:01 +0100, JPG <me@privacy.net> wrote:
I don't think enough time is given to critical thinking and scepticism in
schools - if only people had the intellectual tools they would probably be able
to dismantle all the superstitious and dangerous nonsense that is religion and
rightfully consign it to the scrap-heap of history.
How are you going to scrap the concepts of eternal love of God?
Huh, jpg?
What is the point of wasting love on a non-existent entity? Would it not be
better to reserve your love for real people, such as your family and your fellow
man?
Even if your god-thingy did exist, it would not (at least if it was Yahweh, the
Abrahamic god) reciprocate that love - it allows people to die in agony, it
allows African children to starve, it encourages its brain-washed acolytes to
fly planes into buildings and kill thousands of innocent people.
Huh, Duke?
duke
*****
Matthew 11
28"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened,
and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you
and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in
heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
30For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."
*****
.
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| User: "LP" |
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| Title: Re: America: Founded on Christian or Atheist principles? |
21 Jul 2004 05:32:05 AM |
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On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 19:55:31 -0500, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:19:01 +0100, JPG <me@privacy.net> wrote:
I don't think enough time is given to critical thinking and scepticism in
schools - if only people had the intellectual tools they would probably be able
to dismantle all the superstitious and dangerous nonsense that is religion and
rightfully consign it to the scrap-heap of history.
How are you going to scrap the concepts of eternal love of God?
Huh, jpg?
The same way we scrap other nonsense such as:
acupuncture
alien abductions
ancient astronauts
angels
animism
aromatherapy
astral projection
astrology
Atlantis
auras
automatic writing
Bach's flower therapy
Bermuda triangle
Bible Code
Bigfoot / Yeti
biorhythms
Cayce, Edgar
chakras
channeling
chi
chupacabras
clairvoyance
crop circles
cryptozoology
crystal power
dianetics
dowsing
ear candling
ESP
eternal love of God(s)
exorcism
extraterrestrials
face on Mars
fairies
feng shui
fortune telling
ghosts
haunted houses
hollow Earth
homeopathy
I Ching
Illuminati
Indian rope trick
Kirlian photography
levitation
lie detector
Loch Ness monster
magnet therapy
Mozart Effect
naturopathy
Noah's Ark
Nostradamus
numerology
Ouija board
palmistry
phrenology
poltergeists
polygraph
precognition
prophecy
psychics
psychic detectives
psychic healing
psychic photography
psychic surgery
psychokinesis
Raël and the Raëlians
reflexology
reincarnation
remote viewing
reverse speech
Sasquatch
Satan
Scientology
shamanism
shroud of Turin
spontaneous human combustion
synchronicity
tarot cards
telekinesis
telepathy
teleportation
therapeutic touch
trance writing
transubstantiation
trepanation
unicorns
urine therapy
vampires
Van Praagh, James
Velikovsky's Worlds in Collision
werewolf
witches
wizards
See how well your delusion fits in with the rest?
.
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| User: "Newtons Cat" |
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| Title: Re: America: Founded on Christian or Atheist principles? |
21 Jul 2004 02:54:36 PM |
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LP <whirl_pool@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 19:55:31 -0500, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:19:01 +0100, JPG <me@privacy.net> wrote:
I don't think enough time is given to critical thinking and scepticism in
schools - if only people had the intellectual tools they would probably be able
to dismantle all the superstitious and dangerous nonsense that is religion and
rightfully consign it to the scrap-heap of history.
How are you going to scrap the concepts of eternal love of God?
Huh, jpg?
The same way we scrap other nonsense such as:
acupuncture
alien abductions
ancient astronauts
angels
animism
aromatherapy
astral projection
astrology
Atlantis
auras
automatic writing
Bach's flower therapy
Bermuda triangle
Bible Code
Bigfoot / Yeti
biorhythms
Cayce, Edgar
chakras
channeling
chi
chupacabras
clairvoyance
crop circles
cryptozoology
crystal power
dianetics
dowsing
ear candling
ESP
eternal love of God(s)
exorcism
extraterrestrials
face on Mars
fairies
feng shui
fortune telling
ghosts
haunted houses
hollow Earth
homeopathy
I Ching
Illuminati
Indian rope trick
Kirlian photography
levitation
lie detector
Loch Ness monster
magnet therapy
Mozart Effect
naturopathy
Noah's Ark
Nostradamus
numerology
Ouija board
palmistry
phrenology
poltergeists
polygraph
precognition
prophecy
psychics
psychic detectives
psychic healing
psychic photography
psychic surgery
psychokinesis
Raël and the Raëlians
reflexology
reincarnation
remote viewing
reverse speech
Sasquatch
Satan
Scientology
shamanism
shroud of Turin
spontaneous human combustion
synchronicity
tarot cards
telekinesis
telepathy
teleportation
therapeutic touch
trance writing
transubstantiation
trepanation
unicorns
urine therapy
vampires
Van Praagh, James
Velikovsky's Worlds in Collision
werewolf
witches
wizards
See how well your delusion fits in with the rest?
You've left one out - namely the delusion that 'Mental Illness', as defined by mainstream
psychiatry, actually exists.
'The biological theories as to the causation of mental illness are international psychiatric
myths having no foundation in fact'
Statement by a group of psychologists working for a UN agency. (1996)
If you were a psychiatrist, with the power to detain and medicate people, would you, for
instance, act against someone merely because they claimed to be experiencing
telepathy?
'Telepathy is impossible. All people who claim to experience telepathy are mentally ill'
Dr Geoffrey Lloyd, one of Britain's most senior psychiatrists.
The state of being "deluded" does, of course, exist - but it is often the person who is
doing the judging who is "deluded".
.
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| User: "LP" |
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| Title: Re: America: Founded on Christian or Atheist principles? |
22 Jul 2004 07:16:11 AM |
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On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 19:54:36 +0000, "Newton's Cat"
<flyingpussy@antigravity.com> wrote:
LP <whirl_pool@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 19:55:31 -0500, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:19:01 +0100, JPG <me@privacy.net> wrote:
I don't think enough time is given to critical thinking and scepticism in
schools - if only people had the intellectual tools they would probably be able
to dismantle all the superstitious and dangerous nonsense that is religion and
rightfully consign it to the scrap-heap of history.
How are you going to scrap the concepts of eternal love of God?
Huh, jpg?
The same way we scrap other nonsense such as:
acupuncture
alien abductions
ancient astronauts
angels
animism
aromatherapy
astral projection
astrology
Atlantis
auras
automatic writing
Bach's flower therapy
Bermuda triangle
Bible Code
Bigfoot / Yeti
biorhythms
Cayce, Edgar
chakras
channeling
chi
chupacabras
clairvoyance
crop circles
cryptozoology
crystal power
dianetics
dowsing
ear candling
ESP
eternal love of God(s)
exorcism
extraterrestrials
face on Mars
fairies
feng shui
fortune telling
ghosts
haunted houses
hollow Earth
homeopathy
I Ching
Illuminati
Indian rope trick
Kirlian photography
levitation
lie detector
Loch Ness monster
magnet therapy
Mozart Effect
naturopathy
Noah's Ark
Nostradamus
numerology
Ouija board
palmistry
phrenology
poltergeists
polygraph
precognition
prophecy
psychics
psychic detectives
psychic healing
psychic photography
psychic surgery
psychokinesis
Raël and the Raëlians
reflexology
reincarnation
remote viewing
reverse speech
Sasquatch
Satan
Scientology
shamanism
shroud of Turin
spontaneous human combustion
synchronicity
tarot cards
telekinesis
telepathy
teleportation
therapeutic touch
trance writing
transubstantiation
trepanation
unicorns
urine therapy
vampires
Van Praagh, James
Velikovsky's Worlds in Collision
werewolf
witches
wizards
See how well your delusion fits in with the rest?
You've left one out - namely the delusion that 'Mental Illness', as defined by mainstream
psychiatry, actually exists.
'The biological theories as to the causation of mental illness are international psychiatric
myths having no foundation in fact'
Statement by a group of psychologists working for a UN agency. (1996)
If you were a psychiatrist, with the power to detain and medicate people, would you, for
instance, act against someone merely because they claimed to be experiencing
telepathy?
They normally don't detain someone unless they are a danger to
themselves or others. As far as "medication" goes, I know for a fact
that some psychiatrists would prescribe medication for someone
claiming to be telepathic.
'Telepathy is impossible. All people who claim to experience telepathy are mentally ill'
Dr Geoffrey Lloyd, one of Britain's most senior psychiatrists.
The state of being "deluded" does, of course, exist - but it is often the person who is
doing the judging who is "deluded".
I also left chiropractic off the list. Although 90% of it is *****,
it has a slight amount of validity mixed in. The same as true of
psychiatry.
There is no doubt that "mental illness" exists. What doesn't exist is
a coherent definition of what is meant by "mental illness."
.
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| User: "LP" |
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| Title: Re: America: Founded on Christian or Atheist principles? |
03 Aug 2004 10:17:12 AM |
|
|
On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 19:54:36 +0000, "Newton's Cat"
<flyingpussy@antigravity.com> wrote:
LP <whirl_pool@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 19:55:31 -0500, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:19:01 +0100, JPG <me@privacy.net> wrote:
I don't think enough time is given to critical thinking and scepticism in
schools - if only people had the intellectual tools they would probably be able
to dismantle all the superstitious and dangerous nonsense that is religion and
rightfully consign it to the scrap-heap of history.
How are you going to scrap the concepts of eternal love of God?
Huh, jpg?
The same way we scrap other nonsense such as:
acupuncture
alien abductions
ancient astronauts
angels
animism
aromatherapy
astral projection
astrology
Atlantis
auras
automatic writing
Bach's flower therapy
Bermuda triangle
Bible Code
Bigfoot / Yeti
biorhythms
Cayce, Edgar
chakras
channeling
chi
chupacabras
clairvoyance
crop circles
cryptozoology
crystal power
dianetics
dowsing
ear candling
ESP
eternal love of God(s)
exorcism
extraterrestrials
face on Mars
fairies
feng shui
fortune telling
ghosts
haunted houses
hollow Earth
homeopathy
I Ching
Illuminati
Indian rope trick
Kirlian photography
levitation
lie detector
Loch Ness monster
magnet therapy
Mozart Effect
naturopathy
Noah's Ark
Nostradamus
numerology
Ouija board
palmistry
phrenology
poltergeists
polygraph
precognition
prophecy
psychics
psychic detectives
psychic healing
psychic photography
psychic surgery
psychokinesis
Raël and the Raëlians
reflexology
reincarnation
remote viewing
reverse speech
Sasquatch
Satan
Scientology
shamanism
shroud of Turin
spontaneous human combustion
synchronicity
tarot cards
telekinesis
telepathy
teleportation
therapeutic touch
trance writing
transubstantiation
trepanation
unicorns
urine therapy
vampires
Van Praagh, James
Velikovsky's Worlds in Collision
werewolf
witches
wizards
See how well your delusion fits in with the rest?
You've left one out - namely the delusion that 'Mental Illness', as defined by mainstream
psychiatry, actually exists.
'The biological theories as to the causation of mental illness are international psychiatric
myths having no foundation in fact'
Statement by a group of psychologists working for a UN agency. (1996)
If you were a psychiatrist, with the power to detain and medicate people, would you, for
instance, act against someone merely because they claimed to be experiencing
telepathy?
They normally don't detain someone unless they are a danger to
themselves or others. As far as "medication" goes, I know for a fact
that some psychiatrists would prescribe medication for someone
claiming to be telepathic.
'Telepathy is impossible. All people who claim to experience telepathy are mentally ill'
Dr Geoffrey Lloyd, one of Britain's most senior psychiatrists.
The state of being "deluded" does, of course, exist - but it is often the person who is
doing the judging who is "deluded".
I also left chiropractic off the list. Although 90% of it is *****,
it has a slight amount of validity mixed in. The same as true of
psychiatry.
There is no doubt that "mental illness" exists. What doesn't exist is
a coherent definition of what is meant by "mental illness."
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: America: Founded on Christian or Atheist principles? |
20 Jul 2004 09:54:30 AM |
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On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:19:01 +0100, JPG wrote:
On 20 Jul 2004 02:56:02 -0700, (j_brisby) wrote:
America founded on Christian values? We hear it all the time. How
should one respond? Perhaps by actually looking at what some of the
values we hold dear actually are, and then questioning whether they
are Christian or not. It'll be a wild ride. Ready?
Good post - were not many of the original settlers escaping religious
persecution?
Also the laws are secular, being based on English common law not the 10
commandments, as many Christians would have you believe.
I don't think enough time is given to critical thinking and scepticism in
schools - if only people had the intellectual tools they would probably be able
to dismantle all the superstitious and dangerous nonsense that is religion and
rightfully consign it to the scrap-heap of history.
Which is why critical thinking is actively discouraged in the public
'education' system and society. It makes things easier for the
superstitious control freaks.
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| User: "Peter van Velzen" |
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| Title: Re: America: Founded on Christian or Atheist principles? |
21 Jul 2004 03:00:20 PM |
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Snip the original post, because it does not help answering the
question.
America was in fact founded on the principle of Humanism.
Humanism was originally a movement within Christianity that later
liberated itself from religion to become what is now known as Secular
Humanism.
The founders based there humanism mainly on the bible, more or less
following the principle of te Decalogue (ten words), and subscribing
to the explanation the Gospel tells us, Jesus gave about them in the
sermon on the mount.
They mainly follow the last commandment:
"Love they neighboir as thy loves thyself"
This however is not in line with organized religious institutes,
that tends to give more importance to submitting to their autority,
and often shown no love to people.
Most Atheist - I suppose - would also subscripe to the principles of
Humanism, but may Christians still do too.
"The truth never lies in the middle, but more often at both ends."
Think for yourself
Peter van Velzen, July 2004
Bright/Atheist#1107
Amstelveen (just South of Amsterdam)
The Netherlands (Aug 5, 1950)
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| User: "RoyBoy" |
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| Title: Re: America: Founded on Christian or Atheist principles? |
22 Jul 2004 01:09:23 AM |
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"Peter van Velzen" <pbamvv@worldonline.nl> wrote in message
"The truth never lies in the middle, but more often at both ends."
Now that is a quality sig.
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