| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Dave DeWolfe" |
| Date: |
17 Jun 2004 04:39:04 AM |
| Object: |
America: Founded on Christian Values?? |
Evangelicals and Fundamentalists are quick to point out that America
was "founded on Christian values and principals."
It seems that you Bible thumping holy rollers have forgotten that it
was legal to OWN a slave in America from 1787 when the Constitution
was signed until 1865 when the 13th Amendment was ratified which
banned slavery.
Yes, these so-called "Christian" founders of our country apparently
considered people of "color" to be less than human.
Also, nowhere in the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence,
can you find a reference to "Christ" or "Christianity".
Dave
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| User: "j w" |
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| Title: Re: jw was Re: America: Founded on Christian Values?? |
21 Jun 2004 02:57:53 AM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 20:18:24 +0700, Jos Flachs
<'wcruise'@ksc15.th.com> wrote:
john w replied under copyright 2004
On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 01:05:19 -0700, jw
<john_weatherly47<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
Who indeed, a man who is not known for lieing, a man who is know to keep
his word, a man that does not have to lie about himself to gain sympathy
for himself
You have ZERO proof of any of your rubbish claims, *****.
Walksalone probably has one. And ample proof of your continuous ies.
I told this pervert child molester to not use my Gator account, but
he did anyway.
You normally do business with child molesters?
He is out on parole, dummy.
That is a serious
criminal offense, you know.
No, it is not; if ONLY you knew what you were talking about.
He's out on parole. I didn't let him near my child, but mutual
friends asked me to "befriend him", which I did BRIEFLY. When he
refused to respect my limits, I ended our relationship.
How did he get your password?
As stated numerous times before, I have Gator on my computer, which
stores all my passwords and user IDs. I told him to not use my Gator
accounts, but he did anyway. I also told him to stay out of Agent. He
obviously didn't to that either, and when I caught him on a porn site,
I kicked him out of my house.
Lemmie
guess: he guessed it?
I see intelligence doesn't run in your family.
jw
The same can be said for Agent, if you were unaware. He
used my copy of Agent, he apparently scanned it until he found some
pedo groups, and then he used my copy of Agent to advertise for porn,
and my programmed sigs for this group were thereby attached to his
posts.
I understand you believe the above nonsense yourself. Do you honestly
expect others to believe it too?
And you thought you knew how Gator and Agent work, you pathological
lying demoniac.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
The group I am in, mental midget, is the baptist group. It is YOU who
are trolling and cross-posting, and if you think I will let your daily
feces dump on me pass, you are crazier than I thought.
Sorry, bub. we've been going over it too many times already. YOU
crosspost. We respond.
It is not normally a real challenge, even jw should be able to do it.
Again, dirt bag, you are no challenge. You are a bigmouthed, diseased
slandering bore.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
I'd think you'd have moved on to other tricks by now, like setting
puppies on fire and desecrating churches.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Do you bother me? No. But when you're in prison, your past evil will
haunt you.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
You even give atheists a bad rap.
Is that possible? You mean worse than your anti-promotion for your
god?
Auberge d'EAC
** menu du jour **
[Holy] Pigeon Coated with Mango Sauce - a divine dish!
Votre chef:# aa 1987.
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| User: "Jos Flachs" |
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| Title: Re: jw was Re: America: Founded on Christian Values?? |
21 Jun 2004 05:31:26 AM |
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On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 00:57:53 -0700, j w <john_w<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
You normally do business with child molesters?
He is out on parole, dummy.
You normally associate with childmolester, polite man?
That is a serious
criminal offense, you know.
No, it is not; if ONLY you knew what you were talking about.
Fact: you confess a known child molester had access to your computer.
Fact: you confessed you knew about his criminal past.
Fact: child porn was found on your computer.
Fact: you claim to write incest porn. Not a criminal fact per se, but
not something to work in your favor here.
Conclusion: a lengthy jailterm at the very least. Being considered the
bottom turd of a pile of ***** is not much fun in alt.atheism, but in
jail.... my oh my... I wouldn't like to wear your shoes!
He's out on parole. I didn't let him near my child, but mutual
friends asked me to "befriend him", which I did BRIEFLY. When he
refused to respect my limits, I ended our relationship.
It wouldn't get you out of trouble that easily. I don't say this as
someone who ridicules you, I say this NON BIASED (please observe that)
as a law enforcement officer would. Or should. Quite a few would
definitely not be so non biased, especially those with kids
themselves.
How did he get your password?
As stated numerous times before, I have Gator on my computer, which
stores all my passwords and user IDs. I told him to not use my Gator
accounts, but he did anyway. I also told him to stay out of Agent. He
obviously didn't to that either, and when I caught him on a porn site,
I kicked him out of my house.
That would not get you out of jail.
Lemmie
guess: he guessed it?
I see intelligence doesn't run in your family.
It certainly does.
Auberge d'EAC
** menu du jour **
[Holy] Pigeon Coated with Mango Sauce - a divine dish!
Votre chef:# aa 1987.
.
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| User: "walksalone" |
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| Title: Re: jw was Re: America: Founded on Christian Values?? |
21 Jun 2004 10:30:08 AM |
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On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 00:57:53 -0700, j w wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 20:18:24 +0700, Jos Flachs
<'wcruise'@ksc15.th.com> wrote:
john w replied under copyright 2004
On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 01:05:19 -0700, jw
<john_weatherly47<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
Who indeed, a man who is not known for lieing, a man who is know to keep
his word, a man that does not have to lie about himself to gain sympathy
for himself
You have ZERO proof of any of your rubbish claims, *****.
Walksalone probably has one. And ample proof of your continuous ies.
I told this pervert child molester to not use my Gator account, but
he did anyway.
You normally do business with child molesters?
He is out on parole, dummy.
Is, as opposed to was means he was not on parole or incarcerated when you
gave him access to your computer, which can be password locked.
That is a serious
criminal offense, you know.
No, it is not; if ONLY you knew what you were talking about.
If you were the one that gave him access when you knew what he would do, it
is. But lets see how you try to hide your part in this particular saga.
He's out on parole. I didn't let him near my child, but mutual
friends asked me to "befriend him", which I did BRIEFLY. When he
refused to respect my limits, I ended our relationship.
Right, insofar as your posting history goes, you have no limits.
How did he get your password?
As stated numerous times before, I have Gator on my computer, which
Gator does not store individual access passwords to the computer or its
programs, which most people know. It does store password information for
web sites. like any porn site, etc. It does not block, prevent to usenet
groups, nor was it designed with that in mind. Agent does the work already
in your case.
stores all my passwords and user IDs. I told him to not use my Gator
accounts, but he did anyway. I also told him to stay out of Agent. He
obviously didn't to that either, and when I caught him on a porn site,
I kicked him out of my house.
What's the matter, he used up your download limit?
Lemmie
guess: he guessed it?
I see intelligence doesn't run in your family.
As opposed to its obvious absence in yours?
Gator, sheesh.
jw
snip portion jw could not really explain, but then, he only has to fool
some of the people some of the time. Don't know as how its working this
time though.
walksalone, who is conversant with gator & computer security. They are not
even close to being synonymous.
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| User: "Jos Flachs" |
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| Title: Re: jw was Re: America: Founded on Christian Values?? (was: America: Founded on Christian Values??) |
18 Jun 2004 11:32:42 PM |
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On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 10:39:03 -0700, john w
<john_weatherly47<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
As opposed to your willful ignorance, jezebeth, demon[ess] of lies.
See, demoniac,
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
you keep confusing me with someone else, some "jezebeth".
Your sister-wife?
You also confuse my gender; I am male.
Really? I thought you are an ***** hole. Sorry.
And last I heard, you don't even believe in demons;
All sane people don't believe in demons. But you do, don't you?
you merely throw whatever insults your pea brain can muster.
Actually, he describes you with amazing accuracy without being overly
offensive.
Who is this jezebeth you keep confusing me with?
Your sister-wife?
See? If you had gotten the psychiatric help I recommended YEARS ago, and if you had
allowed them to hospitalize you, and if you had accepted deliverance
from your MANY demons, you might be ok now.
How did you get out of the institute? Clearly you are still believing
your are a lamp shade.
Don't blame me that you continue to deteriorate; it's the demons you
so love.
What exactly is a demon? Do you honestly believe demons sit behind
computers and post messages to alt.atheism? Why should they do that?
Auberge d'EAC
** menu du jour **
[Holy] Pigeon Coated with Mango Sauce - a divine dish!
Votre chef:# aa 1987.
.
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| User: "walksalone" |
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| Title: Re: jw was Re: America: Founded on Christian Values?? |
18 Jun 2004 02:10:17 PM |
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On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 10:39:03 -0700, john w wrote:
Path: news.netfront.net!HSNX.atgi.net!news-hog.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!feed.news.qwest.net!news.uswest.net.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: john w <"john_weatherly47<no">
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.religion.christian.baptist
Subject: Re: jw was Re: America: Founded on Christian Values?? (was: America: Founded on Christian Values??)
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On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 11:05:57 -0600, walksalone <spam@fcc.gov> wrote:
john w replied under copyright 2004
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 01:02:53 -0700, jw wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 23:31:06 GMT, "Desdinova"
<Desdinova@nospamindy.rr.com> wrote:
john w replied under copyright 2004
"jw @yahoo.com>" <john_weatherly47<no> wrote in message
news:tb84d0djkkg51ilh93anuqpdgseq9j6t6n@4ax.com...
x-no-archive: yes
On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 08:58:42 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote:
john w replied under copyright 2004
On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 02:39:04 -0700 in episode
<51e38557.0406170139.1fe3489b@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
dave-dewolfe@sbcglobal.net (Dave DeWolfe):
Evangelicals and Fundamentalists are quick to point out that America
was
"founded on Christian values and principals."
It seems that you Bible thumping holy rollers have forgotten that it
was
legal to OWN a slave in America from 1787 when the Constitution was
signed
until 1865 when the 13th Amendment was ratified which banned slavery.
Yes, these so-called "Christian" founders of our country apparently
considered people of "color" to be less than human.
Also, nowhere in the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence,
can
you find a reference to "Christ" or "Christianity".
Not to mention that "thou shalt not kill" and "thou shalt not steal" seem
to have had asterisks next to them with a note:
"Unless thou wants native lands."
Methinks Rev Dr. Bilbo has overlooked several facts, or never knew
them to begin with. The Jews had no land they didn't conquer by force.
In each case, as they moved, God would pick out a civilization, a
tribe, a culture, that the Jews were to eradicate because that
civilization had become so morally corrupt that God could no longer
stomach them. And since God gives life, God has the right to take it.
Even the land the Jews now occupy was once called "Canaan", and the
Jews ere told by God to take it by force from the Canaanites, whom
they were to eradicate, since the Canaanites had lived a culture
totally contrary to God's sensibilities.
Which proves your god is a muderous *****!
The above comment proves YOu are an ignorant heretic, demoniac.
As opposed to your willful ignorance, jezebeth, demon[ess] of lies.
See, demoniac, you keep confusing me with someone else, some
"jezebeth". You also confuse my gender; I am male. And last I heard,
Why jezebeth, everyone knows you service Asmodeus in your role as a demon
of lies. Or it could be demoness, you run off at the mouth like a
fishmongers wife, so the jury will likely be out until your death
certificate is filled out. & even then no one will care or look to closely.
you don't even believe in demons; you merely throw whatever insults
your pea brain can muster.
Personally, no, no I don't. But you claim to, so if it makes you feel
better, just consider it one more area where my knowledge exceeds yours. As
say, akin to your claimed knowledge about your myth, when you have your
Cliff notes handy.
Who is this jezebeth you keep confusing me with? See? If you had
One of your demon[ess]s, but then you would n ot know that. Its not in your
Cliff notes.
gotten the psychiatric help I recommended YEARS ago, and if you had
allowed them to hospitalize you, and if you had accepted deliverance
from your MANY demons, you might be ok now.
Compared to you, Charles Manson is sane, & yet, you want others to forgo
their sanity & play your delusions as real. You, & those like you are not
worth that kind of lieing to myself.
Don't blame me that you continue to deteriorate; it's the demons you
so love.
My body started deteriorating at birth, your mind probably before that.
The demons you permit too \haunt those few remaining brain cells of yours
are of your own creation, I but point out the resemblance to the claims for
them & your actions as recorded on the net & elsewhere.
jw
And since I know the demons don't let you read much, much less
comprehend, I will cut this short.
Cut it as short as you want, 0 lines & no trolling would be nice, but you
are not man enough for that.
Still, as to the reading, I can read the KJV, hard bound or soft cover, &
not even get a headache.
You can not claim to be able to do that, unless you want to add that to
your list of public lies. & unlike you, I can read for comprehension & in
context. Your posting history indicates a continuing problem for you in
those skills, as in as total lack.
Until your nest troll, troll.
walksalone who knows that was a major effort for jw, hard to tell how many
crayons he wore out in getting it right.
.
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| User: "Don Kresch" |
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| Title: Re: America: Founded on Christian Values?? |
18 Jun 2004 06:25:05 AM |
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In alt.atheism on Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:05:40 -0700, jw
<john_weatherly47<no>@yahoo.com> let us all know that:
x-no-archive: yes
On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 08:58:42 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote:
john w replied under copyright 2004
On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 02:39:04 -0700 in episode
<51e38557.0406170139.1fe3489b@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
dave-dewolfe@sbcglobal.net (Dave DeWolfe):
Evangelicals and Fundamentalists are quick to point out that America was
"founded on Christian values and principals."
It seems that you Bible thumping holy rollers have forgotten that it was
legal to OWN a slave in America from 1787 when the Constitution was signed
until 1865 when the 13th Amendment was ratified which banned slavery.
Yes, these so-called "Christian" founders of our country apparently
considered people of "color" to be less than human.
Also, nowhere in the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence, can
you find a reference to "Christ" or "Christianity".
Not to mention that "thou shalt not kill" and "thou shalt not steal" seem
to have had asterisks next to them with a note:
"Unless thou wants native lands."
Methinks Rev Dr. Bilbo has overlooked several facts, or never knew
them to begin with. The Jews had no land they didn't conquer by force.
Actually, archaeology records no such thing. Nice try, though.
[snip]
You and the non-Christian historians are bloody presumptuous
non-believers to believe that Christians did anything "wrong" when
they conquered America and took it from the Indians.
You mean other than murder?
You have NO idea what God told the Pilgrims to do in the New World. It
is the view of MANY Christians, including me, that "Manifest Destiny"
isn't merely an ugly catch phrase, but indicates how America came to
be.
So god told them to do this? You know, god told a couple women in
the past couple years to kill their children. That is the god that you
follow.
Yes, we can judge your god. If you can't, that's your problem.
Don
---
aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man"
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: America: Founded on Christian Values?? |
18 Jun 2004 01:34:21 AM |
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In article <tb84d0djkkg51ilh93anuqpdgseq9j6t6n@4ax.com>,
jw <john_weatherly47<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 08:58:42 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote:
john w replied under copyright 2004
On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 02:39:04 -0700 in episode
<51e38557.0406170139.1fe3489b@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
dave-dewolfe@sbcglobal.net (Dave DeWolfe):
Evangelicals and Fundamentalists are quick to point out that America was
"founded on Christian values and principals."
It seems that you Bible thumping holy rollers have forgotten that it was
legal to OWN a slave in America from 1787 when the Constitution was signed
until 1865 when the 13th Amendment was ratified which banned slavery.
Yes, these so-called "Christian" founders of our country apparently
considered people of "color" to be less than human.
Also, nowhere in the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence, can
you find a reference to "Christ" or "Christianity".
Not to mention that "thou shalt not kill" and "thou shalt not steal" seem
to have had asterisks next to them with a note:
"Unless thou wants native lands."
Methinks Rev Dr. Bilbo has overlooked several facts, or never knew
them to begin with. The Jews had no land they didn't conquer by force.
In each case, as they moved, God would pick out a civilization, a
tribe, a culture, that the Jews were to eradicate because that
civilization had become so morally corrupt that God could no longer
stomach them. And since God gives life, God has the right to take it.
Even the land the Jews now occupy was once called "Canaan", and the
Jews ere told by God to take it by force from the Canaanites, whom
they were to eradicate, since the Canaanites had lived a culture
totally contrary to God's sensibilities.
Your god likes ethnic cleansing then?
You and the non-Christian historians are bloody presumptuous
non-believers to believe that Christians did anything "wrong" when
they conquered America and took it from the Indians.
And I suppose that your god told Hitler that it was OK to kill his
millions too?
You have NO idea what God told the Pilgrims to do in the New World. It
is the view of MANY Christians, including me, that "Manifest Destiny"
isn't merely an ugly catch phrase, but indicates how America came to
be.
"Manifest Destiny" = land theft.
It was ordained by God. Looking back at America's history, these past
200 + years, for all the evil we've done as a nation, we've done 100
times as much good.
So your god okayed genocide in the US? Evidence?
And those who have done evil without God's approval will pay.
Now I've heard it all! It's OK to do evil if you believe that your god
told you to do evil? Then your god must be one evil *****.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Men become civilized not in their willingness to believe, but in
proportion to their readiness to doubt." - H. L. Mencken
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| User: "Silver Blaze" |
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| Title: Re: America: Founded on Christian Values?? |
18 Jun 2004 12:39:37 AM |
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In article <tb84d0djkkg51ilh93anuqpdgseq9j6t6n@4ax.com>, jw
<john_weatherly47<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
It was ordained by God. Looking back at America's history, these past
200 + years, for all the evil we've done as a nation, we've done 100
times as much good.
That is truly difficult to assess in that America had very little war
involvement before the Great War. Certainly America became the one of the
last bastions of slavery replacing it with a cruel racism and with the
development of fundamentalist Christianity, both evil.
America's great contribution to the Second World War is somewhat
overshadowed by the activities that preceeded it and brought about much of
the situation that caused it, through the abandonment of the Woodrow
Wilson doctrines and the failure to properly support the League of Nations
(a mistake currently being repeated)
Had American companies not sought to make money in Nazi Germany during the
early years of the Third Reich, Hitler might never have gained the
economic strength to work towards war - a mistake America continues to
make in its support of Fascistic Juntas and regimes.
And similarly Americas Cold War policies were very debateable in terms of
the suffering they indirectly caused as a decimated nation sought to
retain its, admittedly misused, sovereignty.
The American perspective is simplistic and inaccurate rather than being
intentionally evil - but it is mostly just plain wrong.
And as allies this jingoistic over simplification of morality and
responsibility on America's part is often very hard to live with
But we still always make Americans welcome. However much we criticise
your leaders and your history we know the debt we owe America's ordinary
people
Never forget - I suggest earnestly - the debt you owe the rest of the
world - and continue to owe it.
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: America: Founded on Christian Values?? |
17 Jun 2004 09:18:26 PM |
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On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:05:40 -0700 in episode
<tb84d0djkkg51ilh93anuqpdgseq9j6t6n@4ax.com> we saw our hero jw
<john_weatherly47<no>@yahoo.com>:
x-no-archive: yes
On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 08:58:42 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi>
wrote:
john w replied under copyright 2004
On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 02:39:04 -0700 in episode
<51e38557.0406170139.1fe3489b@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
dave-dewolfe@sbcglobal.net (Dave DeWolfe):
Evangelicals and Fundamentalists are quick to point out that America
was "founded on Christian values and principals."
It seems that you Bible thumping holy rollers have forgotten that it
was legal to OWN a slave in America from 1787 when the Constitution was
signed until 1865 when the 13th Amendment was ratified which banned
slavery.
Yes, these so-called "Christian" founders of our country apparently
considered people of "color" to be less than human.
Also, nowhere in the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence,
can you find a reference to "Christ" or "Christianity".
Not to mention that "thou shalt not kill" and "thou shalt not steal" seem
to have had asterisks next to them with a note:
"Unless thou wants native lands."
Methinks Rev Dr. Bilbo has overlooked several facts, or never knew them to
begin with. The Jews had no land they didn't conquer by force. In each
case, as they moved, God would pick out a civilization, a tribe, a
culture, that the Jews were to eradicate because that civilization had
become so morally corrupt that God could no longer stomach them. And since
God gives life, God has the right to take it.
Even the land the Jews now occupy was once called "Canaan", and the Jews
ere told by God to take it by force from the Canaanites, whom they were to
eradicate, since the Canaanites had lived a culture totally contrary to
God's sensibilities.
You and the non-Christian historians are bloody presumptuous non-believers
to believe that Christians did anything "wrong" when they conquered
America and took it from the Indians.
You have NO idea what God told the Pilgrims to do in the New World. It is
the view of MANY Christians, including me, that "Manifest Destiny" isn't
merely an ugly catch phrase, but indicates how America came to be.
It was ordained by God. Looking back at America's history, these past 200
+ years, for all the evil we've done as a nation, we've done 100 times as
much good.
And those who have done evil without God's approval will pay.
And there ya have it folks, Weatherly rationalizes *GENOCIDE.*
Ahem.
Take your "god" and shove it sideways up your ***** you evil *****.
(It's an amazingly flexible absolute morality they got)
You have no right whatever to judge God or Christians as a non-Christian.
<SNIP>
That's what all the evil fucking ***** whores like yourself say.
Now get back in the killfile you slime.
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"I think it's the worst kept secret in Washington.
That everybody - everybody I talk to in Washington
has known and fully knows what [the neo-conservative]
agenda was and what they were trying to do."
[Retired General Anthony Zinni]
.
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| User: "Jos Flachs" |
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| Title: Re: America: Founded on Christian Values?? |
17 Jun 2004 09:01:29 PM |
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On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:05:40 -0700, jw
<john_weatherly47<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
Methinks Rev Dr. Bilbo has overlooked several facts, or never knew
them to begin with. The Jews had no land they didn't conquer by force.
This sentence is not possible. Either the jews had no land, which they
conquered by force, or they did have land, and didn't conquer it.
In each case, as they moved, God would pick out a civilization, a
tribe, a culture, that the Jews were to eradicate because that
civilization had become so morally corrupt that God could no longer
stomach them. And since God gives life, God has the right to take it.
Convenient, what? Adolf Hitler tried the same.
Even the land the Jews now occupy was once called "Canaan", and the
Jews ere told by God to take it by force from the Canaanites, whom
they were to eradicate, since the Canaanites had lived a culture
totally contrary to God's sensibilities.
So do the Untermenschen.
You and the non-Christian historians are bloody presumptuous
non-believers to believe that Christians did anything "wrong" when
they conquered America and took it from the Indians.
You really are mentally retarded. It is an established fact that
indians were massacred. And not by little green men from Mars or
Buddhist monks.
You have NO idea what God told the Pilgrims to do in the New World.
But you do, apparently. Enlighten us.
It
is the view of MANY Christians, including me, that "Manifest Destiny"
isn't merely an ugly catch phrase, but indicates how America came to
be.
It was the destiny of the German race to "replace" the Untermenschen.
Exactly the same thing.
It was ordained by God. Looking back at America's history, these past
200 + years, for all the evil we've done as a nation, we've done 100
times as much good.
Now tell that to the indians in the reservations.
And those who have done evil without God's approval will pay.
In cash or by credit card?
(It's an amazingly flexible absolute morality they got)
You have no right whatever to judge God or Christians as a
non-Christian.
We have all the rights. Just like you have to judge us. Which you too
often do.
That's like telling people how terrible Rolls Royces
are while you are looking through the window of the Rolls Royce
dealership. Merely because you don't want one or can't afford one
doesn't give you the right to criticize those with whom you disagree.
Entirely wrong. If I study the construction manual of RR, and find
something wrong, I not only have the right, but more than likely the
legal obligation to inform that company. RR wouldn't be offended with
that. And that is exactly the major difference between sanity and
religion.
MANY "moral values" in the Bible are flexible, you bet.
Great! I win!
Which church
to attend, what day to worship, what toothpaste to use, what version
of the Bible to use, whether to use grape juice or wine at the Lord's
Table, which hymns to sing. (YOU may not believe those are moral
issues; many do).
But screwing your wife on the rag, wearing mixed fibres and eating
swine flesh went out of fashion. Though it is explicitly mentioned in
the OT.
There are those who believe it's evil to wash your car on Saturday
(the Sabbatarians).
Even worse: you can't pick up a stick on a Satur[nus!]day.
Oh, do you hold the sabbath? On a Saturday, of course. That is also
explicitly mentioned in the OT. Worshipping your god on the wrong day
will send practically every xtian to hell automatically.
Auberge d'EAC
** menu du jour **
[Holy] Pigeon Coated with Mango Sauce - a divine dish!
Votre chef:# aa 1987.
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: America: Founded on Christian Values?? |
17 Jun 2004 09:20:55 PM |
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On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 09:01:29 +0700 in episode
<88e4d0phht1ojkk3a0tktg4heskv54prdn@4ax.com> we saw our hero Jos Flachs
<'wcruise'@ksc15.th.com>:
On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:05:40 -0700, jw <john_weatherly47<no>@yahoo.com>
wrote:
You and the non-Christian historians are bloody presumptuous
non-believers to believe that Christians did anything "wrong" when they
conquered America and took it from the Indians.
You really are mentally retarded. It is an established fact that indians
were massacred. And not by little green men from Mars or Buddhist monks.
Oh no, Weatherly, vile scum ***** fuckwad ***** ***** stain he is, is
not saying the genocide didn't happen, he's saying it was NOT wrong.
He's just that evil.
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"I think it's the worst kept secret in Washington.
That everybody - everybody I talk to in Washington
has known and fully knows what [the neo-conservative]
agenda was and what they were trying to do."
[Retired General Anthony Zinni]
.
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| User: "gaffo" |
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| Title: Re: America: Founded on Christian Values?? |
17 Jun 2004 07:15:57 PM |
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jw
You have no right whatever to judge God or Christians as a
non-Christian.
and by extention Liberty defending non-Nazi folks have no reich to judge
you John?
Only another Nazi has the riech to judge you John?
jw
ya- riech. whatever.
--
http://baltimorechronicle.com/041704reTreason.shtml
http://www.truthinaction.net/iraq/illegaljayne.htm
As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. In both
instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged.
And it is in such twilight that we all must be aware of change in the air
-- however slight -lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness.
Justice William O. Douglas, US Supreme Court (1939-75)
"It shows us that there were senior people in the Bush administration who
were seriously contemplating the use of torture, and trying to figure out
whether there were any legal loopholes that might allow them to commit
criminal acts, They seem to be putting forward a theory that the president
in wartime can essentially do what he wants regardless of what the law
may say,"
Tom Malinowski of Human Rights Watch - commenting upon Defense
Department Lawyer
Will Dunham's 56-page legalization of torture memo.
If you add all of those up, you should have a conservative rebellion against
the giant corporation in the White House masquerading as a human being named
George W. Bush. Just as progressives have been abandoned by the corporate
Democrats and told, "You got nowhere to go other than to stay home or
vote for
the Democrats", this is the fate of the authentic conservatives in the
Republican Party.
Ralph Nader - June 2004 - The American Conservative Magazine
"But I believe in torture and I will torture you."
-An American soldier shares the joys of Democracy with
an Iraqi prisoner.
"My mother praises me for fighting the Americans. If we are killed,
our wives and mothers will rejoice that we died defending the
freedom of our country.
-Iraqi Mahdi fighter
"We were bleeding from 3 a.m. until sunrise, soon American soldiers came.
One of them kicked me to see if I was alive. I pretended I was dead
so he wouldn't kill me. The soldier was laughing, when Yousef cried,
the soldier said: "'No, stop,"
-Shihab, survivor of USSA bombing of Iraqi wedding.
"the absolute convergence of the neoconservatives with the Christian
Zionists
and the pro-Israel lobby, driving U.S. Mideast policy."
-Don Wagner, an evangelical South Carolina minister
"Bush, in Austin, criticized President Clinton's administration for
the Kosovo military action.'Victory means exit strategy, and it's important
for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is,' Bush said."
Houston Chronicle 4/9/99
"Iraqis are sick of foreign people coming in their country and trying to
destabilize their country."
Washington, D.C., May 5, 2004
"The new administration seems to be paying no attention to the problem
of terrorism. What they will do is stagger along until there's a major
incident and then suddenly say, 'Oh my God, shouldn't we be organized
to deal with this?'"
- Paul Bremer, speaking to a McCormick Tribune Foundation conference
on terrorism in Wheaton, Ill. on Feb. 26, 2001.
"On Jan. 26, 1998, President Clinton received a letter imploring him to use
his State of the Union address to make removal of Saddam Hussein's regime
the "aim of American foreign policy" and to use military action because
"diplomacy is failing." Were Clinton to do that, the signers pledged, they
would "offer our full support in this difficult but necessary endeavor."
Signing the pledge were Elliott Abrams, Bill Bennett, John Bolton, Robert
Kagan, William Kristol, Richard Perle, Richard L. Armitage, Jeffrey
Bergner,
Paula Dobriansky, Francis Fukuyama, Zalmay Khalilzad, Peter W. Rodman,
William Schneider, Jr., Vin Weber, R. James Woolsey and Robert B. Zoellick,
Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz. Four years before 9/11, the neocons had
Baghdad on their minds."
-philip (usenet)
"I had better things to do in the 60s than fight in Vietnam,"
-Richard Cheney, Kerry critic.
"I hope they will understand that in order for this government to get up
and running
- to be effective - some of its sovereignty will have to be given
back, if I can put it that way,
or limited by them, It's sovereignty but [some] of that sovereignty they
are going to allow us to exercise
on their behalf and with their permission."
- Powell 4/27/04
"We're trying to explain how things are going, and they are going as they
are going," he said, adding: "Some things are going well and some things
obviously are not going well. You're going to have good days and bad days."
On the road to democracy, this "is one moment, and there will be other
moments. And there will be good moments and there will be less good
moments."
- Rumsfeld 4/6/04
"I also have this belief, strong belief, that freedom is not this
country's gift to the world; freedom is the Almighty's gift to
every man and woman in this world. And as the greatest power on
the face of the Earth, we have an obligation to help the spread
of freedom."
~ Bush the Crusader
RUSSERT: Are you prepared to lose?
BUSH: No, I'm not going to lose.
RUSSERT: If you did, what would you do?
BUSH: Well, I don't plan on losing. I've got a vision for what I want to
do for the country.
See, I know exactly where I want to lead.................And we got
changing times
here in America, too., 2/8/04
"And that's very important for, I think, the people to understand where
I'm coming from,
to know that this is a dangerous world. I wish it wasn't. I'm a war
president.
I make decisions here in the Oval Office in foreign policy matters with
war on my mind.
- pResident of the United State of America, 2/8/04
"Let's talk about the nuclear proposition for a minute. We know that
based on intelligence, that he has been very, very good at hiding
these kinds of efforts. He's had years to get good at it and we know
he has been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear weapons.
And we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons."
- Vice President ***** Cheney, on "Meet the Press", 3/16/03
"I don't know anybody that I can think of who has contended that the
Iraqis had nuclear weapons."
- Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, 6/24/03
"I think in this case international law
stood in the way of doing the right thing (invading Iraq)."
- Richard Perle
"He (Saddam Hussein) has not developed any significant capability with
respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project
conventional power against his neighbours."
- Colin Powell February 24 2001
"We have been successful for the last ten years in keeping
him from developing those weapons and we will continue to be successful."
"He threatens not the United States."
"But I also thought that we had pretty
much removed his stings and frankly for ten years we really have."
'But what is interesting is that with the regime that has been in place
for the past ten years, I think a pretty good job has been done of
keeping him from breaking out and suddenly showing up one day and saying
"look what I got." He hasn't been able to do that.'
- Colin Powell February 26 2001
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| User: "jw" |
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| Title: Re: America: Founded on Christian Values?? |
18 Jun 2004 03:07:48 AM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 00:15:57 GMT, gaffo <gaffo@usenet.net> wrote:
john w replied under copyright 2004
jw
You have no right whatever to judge God or Christians as a
non-Christian.
and by extention Liberty defending non-Nazi folks have no reich to judge
you John?
Only another Nazi has the riech to judge you John?
Your slander might end up with me dragging your ***** into court, gutter
mouth.
I am an American, I served in the military during our nation's longest
war, I was discharged honorably, and I have since been a productive
citizen.
What's YOUR excuse for being a total *****?
I know! The Devil made you do it, you demoniac.
jw
jw
ya- riech. whatever.
.
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| User: "Jos Flachs" |
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| Title: Re: America: Founded on Christian Values?? |
18 Jun 2004 08:14:54 AM |
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On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 01:07:48 -0700, jw
<john_weatherly47<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
You have no right whatever to judge God or Christians as a
non-Christian.
and by extention Liberty defending non-Nazi folks have no reich to judge
you John?
Only another Nazi has the riech to judge you John?
Your slander might end up with me dragging your ***** into court, gutter
mouth.
For once, do it, ***** wipe. Don't constantly make idle threats. After a
while it gets Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
I am an American, I served in the military during our nation's longest
war, I was discharged honorably, and I have since been a productive
citizen.
You served in the war of independence?
What's YOUR excuse for being a total *****?
None. Nobody can beat you hear, ***** breath.
I know! The Devil made you do it, you demoniac.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Auberge d'EAC
** menu du jour **
[Holy] Pigeon Coated with Mango Sauce - a divine dish!
Votre chef:# aa 1987.
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: America: Founded on Christian Values?? |
18 Jun 2004 09:10:25 AM |
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On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 20:14:54 +0700 in episode
<8lj5d01cn7pjrrdk2l88sga0nu4pacovp6@4ax.com> we saw our hero Jos Flachs
<'wcruise'@ksc15.th.com>:
You have no right whatever to judge God or Christians as a
non-Christian.
and by extention Liberty defending non-Nazi folks have no reich to judge
you John?
Only another Nazi has the riech to judge you John?
Your slander might end up with me dragging your ***** into court, gutter
mouth.
For once, do it, ***** wipe. Don't constantly make idle threats. After a
while it gets Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Ah, Worthlessly is off and running with the legal threats again.
<snort> <snicker> <snirk>
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"I think it's the worst kept secret in Washington.
That everybody - everybody I talk to in Washington
has known and fully knows what [the neo-conservative]
agenda was and what they were trying to do."
[Retired General Anthony Zinni]
.
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| User: "john w" |
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| Title: Re: America: Founded on Christian Values?? |
26 Jun 2004 07:56:35 AM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 09:10:25 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote:
john w replied under copyright 2004
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 20:14:54 +0700 in episode
<8lj5d01cn7pjrrdk2l88sga0nu4pacovp6@4ax.com> we saw our hero Jos Flachs
<'wcruise'@ksc15.th.com>:
You have no right whatever to judge God or Christians as a
non-Christian.
and by extention Liberty defending non-Nazi folks have no reich to judge
you John?
Only another Nazi has the riech to judge you John?
Your slander might end up with me dragging your ***** into court, gutter
mouth.
For once, do it, ***** wipe. Don't constantly make idle threats. After a
while it gets Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Ah, Worthlessly is off and running with the legal threats again.
How 6th grader of you to twist my name to make a joke.
Do your mommy and daddy know you're playing with the computer again?
jw
<snort> <snicker> <snirk>
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: America: Founded on Christian Values?? |
26 Jun 2004 09:19:40 AM |
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In article <pmrqd0dk4vsdcq5vj3os7gp0i8stot83lm@4ax.com>, john w
<john_weatherly47 says...
x-no-archive: yes
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 09:10:25 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote:
john w replied under copyright 2004
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 20:14:54 +0700 in episode
<8lj5d01cn7pjrrdk2l88sga0nu4pacovp6@4ax.com> we saw our hero Jos Flachs
<'wcruise'@ksc15.th.com>:
You have no right whatever to judge God or Christians as a
non-Christian.
and by extention Liberty defending non-Nazi folks have no reich to judge
you John?
Only another Nazi has the riech to judge you John?
Your slander might end up with me dragging your ***** into court, gutter
mouth.
For once, do it, ***** wipe. Don't constantly make idle threats. After a
while it gets Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Ah, Worthlessly is off and running with the legal threats again.
How 6th grader of you to twist my name to make a joke.
Do your mommy and daddy know you're playing with the computer again?
Pot - Kettle - Black, incest porno boy.
When are you going to sue me?
--------------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: America: Founded on Christian Values?? |
26 Jun 2004 11:23:05 AM |
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On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 14:19:40 +0000 in episode
<0CfDc.6819$H4.254@www.newsranger.com> we saw our hero Robibnikoff
<nospam@newsranger.com>:
In article <pmrqd0dk4vsdcq5vj3os7gp0i8stot83lm@4ax.com>, john w
<john_weatherly47 says...
x-no-archive: yes
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 09:10:25 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi>
wrote:
john w replied under copyright 2004
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 20:14:54 +0700 in episode
<8lj5d01cn7pjrrdk2l88sga0nu4pacovp6@4ax.com> we saw our hero Jos Flachs
<'wcruise'@ksc15.th.com>:
You have no right whatever to judge God or Christians as a
non-Christian.
and by extention Liberty defending non-Nazi folks have no reich to
judge you John?
Only another Nazi has the riech to judge you John?
Your slander might end up with me dragging your ***** into court, gutter
mouth.
For once, do it, ***** wipe. Don't constantly make idle threats. After a
while it gets Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Ah, Worthlessly is off and running with the legal threats again.
How 6th grader of you to twist my name to make a joke.
Do your mommy and daddy know you're playing with the computer again?
Pot - Kettle - Black, incest porno boy.
When are you going to sue me?
Well, since his "legal actions" are all imaginary, how do you know he
hasn't *already sued you?
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"I think it's the worst kept secret in Washington.
That everybody - everybody I talk to in Washington
has known and fully knows what [the neo-conservative]
agenda was and what they were trying to do."
[Retired General Anthony Zinni]
.
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| User: "john w" |
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| Title: Re: America: Founded on Christian Values?? |
18 Jun 2004 03:41:56 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 20:14:54 +0700, Jos Flachs
<'wcruise'@ksc15.th.com> wrote:
john w replied under copyright 2004
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 01:07:48 -0700, jw
<john_weatherly47<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
You have no right whatever to judge God or Christians as a
non-Christian.
and by extention Liberty defending non-Nazi folks have no reich to judge
you John?
Only another Nazi has the riech to judge you John?
Your slander might end up with me dragging your ***** into court, gutter
mouth.
For once, do it, ***** wipe. Don't constantly make idle threats. After a
while it gets Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
"All in due time..." Why should I rush? I want to watch you sweat
first.
I am an American, I served in the military during our nation's longest
war, I was discharged honorably, and I have since been a productive
citizen.
You served in the war of independence?
What's YOUR excuse for being a total *****?
None. Nobody can beat you hear, ***** breath.
No one is taking you seriously, you cross-posting, penis breathed
troll
jw
I know! The Devil made you do it, you demoniac.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Auberge d'EAC
** menu du jour **
[Holy] Pigeon Coated with Mango Sauce - a divine dish!
Votre chef:# aa 1987.
.
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| User: "Jos Flachs" |
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| Title: Re: America: Founded on Christian Values?? |
18 Jun 2004 11:32:40 PM |
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On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 13:41:56 -0700, john w
<john_weatherly47<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
Your slander might end up with me dragging your ***** into court, gutter
mouth.
For once, do it, ***** wipe. Don't constantly make idle threats. After a
while it gets Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
"All in due time..." Why should I rush? I want to watch you sweat
first.
See liar? Didn't you tell us you were done with me?
No one is taking you seriously, you cross-posting, penis breathed
troll
You do. Good luck on your law suit.
Auberge d'EAC
** menu du jour **
[Holy] Pigeon Coated with Mango Sauce - a divine dish!
Votre chef:# aa 1987.
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: America: Founded on Christian Values?? |
19 Jun 2004 07:49:13 AM |
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On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 11:32:40 +0700 in episode
<4947d098alp5hvcfbp40js80908q7i861t@4ax.com> we saw our hero Jos Flachs
<'wcruise'@ksc15.th.com>:
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 13:41:56 -0700, john w
<john_weatherly47<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
Your slander might end up with me dragging your ***** into court, gutter
mouth.
For once, do it, ***** wipe. Don't constantly make idle threats. After a
while it gets Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
"All in due time..." Why should I rush? I want to watch you sweat first.
See liar? Didn't you tell us you were done with me?
No one is taking you seriously, you cross-posting, penis breathed troll
You do. Good luck on your law suit.
"Penis breath?" He actually wrote that?
If he keeps regressing at this rate, he'll be pooping his diapers next
week...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"I think it's the worst kept secret in Washington.
That everybody - everybody I talk to in Washington
has known and fully knows what [the neo-conservative]
agenda was and what they were trying to do."
[Retired General Anthony Zinni]
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: America: Founded on Christian Values?? |
19 Jun 2004 08:36:50 AM |
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In article <pan.2004.06.19.12.49.13.326770@hoo.com-amikchi>, Mark K. Bilbo
says...
On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 11:32:40 +0700 in episode
<4947d098alp5hvcfbp40js80908q7i861t@4ax.com> we saw our hero Jos Flachs
<'wcruise'@ksc15.th.com>:
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 13:41:56 -0700, john w
<john_weatherly47<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
Your slander might end up with me dragging your ***** into court, gutter
mouth.
For once, do it, ***** wipe. Don't constantly make idle threats. After a
while it gets Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
"All in due time..." Why should I rush? I want to watch you sweat first.
See liar? Didn't you tell us you were done with me?
No one is taking you seriously, you cross-posting, penis breathed troll
You do. Good luck on your law suit.
"Penis breath?" He actually wrote that?
I'm sure he'll regress to calling people "stink pots" in the near future.
If he keeps regressing at this rate, he'll be pooping his diapers next
week...
I think he started doing that last year ;)
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: America: Founded on Christian Values?? |
18 Jun 2004 12:23:25 AM |
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One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Dave DeWolfe:
Evangelicals and Fundamentalists are quick to point out that America
was "founded on Christian values and principals."
It seems that you Bible thumping holy rollers have forgotten that it
was legal to OWN a slave in America from 1787 when the Constitution
was signed until 1865 when the 13th Amendment was ratified which
banned slavery.
Yes, these so-called "Christian" founders of our country apparently
considered people of "color" to be less than human.
The mormons still do. Ask a mormon.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________
It's my funeral and I'll fry if I want to...
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| User: "jw" |
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| Title: Re: America: Founded on Christian Values?? |
17 Jun 2004 05:53:12 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On 17 Jun 2004 02:39:04 -0700, (Dave
DeWolfe) wrote:
john w replied under copyright 2004
Evangelicals and Fundamentalists are quick to point out that America
was "founded on Christian values and principals."
It seems that you Bible thumping holy rollers have forgotten that it
was legal to OWN a slave in America from 1787 when the Constitution
was signed until 1865 when the 13th Amendment was ratified which
banned slavery.
Yes, these so-called "Christian" founders of our country apparently
considered people of "color" to be less than human.
Also, nowhere in the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence,
can you find a reference to "Christ" or "Christianity".
Old, tired, non-historical argument.
In fact, Christians led the way to emancipation; Harriet Beecher
Stowe, the author of Uncle Tom's Cabin, which enlightened the whole
nation as to the horrors of slavery, was a Christian.
It is sometimes difficult to leave the past in the past. But
Christians have broken ground in MANY areas. And you have NEGLECTED to
point out that the first schools, universities, and hospitals in
America and in MANY third world countries were started by Christians.
Find me a major city in America where there isn't a Baptist,
Methodist, Presbyterian, or Lutheran hospital. Elvis Presley was
pronounced dead in the Memphis Memorial Baptist Hospital ER.
Among the first casualties of this war were missionaries who were
caring for widows and orphans. Bush ordered them out; they stayed, and
they died caring for those in their care.
jw
Dave
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| User: "walksalone" |
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| Title: RTS Re: America: Founded on Christian Values?? (was: America: Founded on Christian Values??) |
17 Jun 2004 06:05:32 PM |
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On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 15:53:12 -0700, jw wrote:
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From: jw <"john_weatherly47<no">
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.religion.christian.baptist
Subject: Re: America: Founded on Christian Values??
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On 17 Jun 2004 02:39:04 -0700, (Dave
DeWolfe) wrote:
john w replied under copyright 2004
Evangelicals and Fundamentalists are quick to point out that America
was "founded on Christian values and principals."
It seems that you Bible thumping holy rollers have forgotten that it
was legal to OWN a slave in America from 1787 when the Constitution
was signed until 1865 when the 13th Amendment was ratified which
banned slavery.
Yes, these so-called "Christian" founders of our country apparently
considered people of "color" to be less than human.
Also, nowhere in the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence,
can you find a reference to "Christ" or "Christianity".
Old, tired, non-historical argument.
In fact, Christians led the way to emancipation; Harriet Beecher
Stowe, the author of Uncle Tom's Cabin, which enlightened the whole
nation as to the horrors of slavery, was a Christian.
It is sometimes difficult to leave the past in the past. But
Christians have broken ground in MANY areas. And you have NEGLECTED to
point out that the first schools, universities, and hospitals in
America and in MANY third world countries were started by Christians.
Find me a major city in America where there isn't a Baptist,
Methodist, Presbyterian, or Lutheran hospital. Elvis Presley was
pronounced dead in the Memphis Memorial Baptist Hospital ER.
Among the first casualties of this war were missionaries who were
caring for widows and orphans. Bush ordered them out; they stayed, and
they died caring for those in their care.
jw
Dave
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| User: "Silver Blaze" |
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| Title: Re: America: Founded on Christian Values?? |
18 Jun 2004 12:26:14 AM |
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In article <kt74d051fj5dke6glrodmbii7mpojc0gg5@4ax.com>, jw
<john_weatherly47<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On 17 Jun 2004 02:39:04 -0700, (Dave
DeWolfe) wrote:
john w replied under copyright 2004
Evangelicals and Fundamentalists are quick to point out that America
was "founded on Christian values and principals."
It seems that you Bible thumping holy rollers have forgotten that it
was legal to OWN a slave in America from 1787 when the Constitution
was signed until 1865 when the 13th Amendment was ratified which
banned slavery.
Yes, these so-called "Christian" founders of our country apparently
considered people of "color" to be less than human.
Also, nowhere in the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence,
can you find a reference to "Christ" or "Christianity".
Old, tired, non-historical argument.
In fact, Christians led the way to emancipation; Harriet Beecher
Stowe, the author of Uncle Tom's Cabin, which enlightened the whole
nation as to the horrors of slavery, was a Christian.
And the slave owners and their clerical supporters were also Christians
In fact it was the Christians who broke ranks with an outdated puritanical
traditionalism who pushed for social reform - the kind of people you
insult as "liberals" today
Fundamentalism was a reaction to reconstruction and the emancipation of
the slaves. That is why it rose mostly in America, drawing from such as
Spurgeon - one of the last religious gaspers of Victorian British
Imperialism.
Your kind of Christianity is rooted in the Slave trade and its concurrent
racism and monoculturalism. It is rooted in the snobbery that holds up
one form of spirituality as the "real and only way" and the sincere
beliefs of those of other cultures as the path to Hell.
You have SO much to learn John So very much.
One last point - You say "Harriet Beecher Stowe, the author of Uncle Tom's
Cabin...... enlightened the whole nation as to the horrors of slavery"
But remember please - America was one of the last nations to be
enlightened in this respect. And it took a civil war in the end to even
begin the process. So reactionary is - and was - your American Christian
culture.
Sorry but a fact is a fact.
++++++++++++
Slavery Abolition Act 1833
The common law of England did not recognize anyone as a slave (although in
Scotland, which does not have the common law, bondage still existed until
the late eighteenth century, when it was abolished by legislation).
Slavery, however, existed in a number of British colonies, principally in
the West Indies.
The Slavery Abolition Bill 1833 was passed by the House of Commons and by
the House of Lords.
His Majesty King William IV, gave his Royal Assent to the Bill.
It received the Royal Assent (which means it became law) on 29 August 1833
and came into force on 1 August 1834. On that date slavery was abolished
throughout the vast British Empire.
The Act automatically applied as new possessions (principally in Africa)
subsequently became part of the British Empire.
There were a number of exceptions.
First, its application to the Colony of the Cape of Good Hope (now the
Cape Province of the Republic of South Africa) was delayed for 4 months
and its application to the Colony of Mauritius (now the Republic of
Mauritius) was delayed for 6 months.
Secondly, section 64 excluded Ceylon (now Sri Lanka), St Helena and the
territories in the possession of The Honourable East India Company, namely
in British India, but the section was subsequently repealed. The
Honourable East India Company, in theory, administered large parts of
India as an agent for the Mogul Emperor in Delhi.
Subsequently, section 1 of 5 & 6 Vict c 101 was enacted which prohibited
certain officers of The Honourable East India Company from being involved
in the purchase of slaves, but it did not actually abolish slavery in
India. It was the provisions of the Indian Penal Code 1860 which
effectively abolished slavery in India by making the enslavement of human
beings a criminal offence.
Purposes of the Act
The purposes of the Slavery Abolition Act 1833 were described in the
preamble to the Bill as:
1. ³the abolition of slavery throughout the British colonies²;
2. ³for promoting the industry of the manumitted slaves²; and
3. ³for compensating the persons hitherto entitled to the services of such
slaves².
The second purpose was achieved by providing for a period of apprenticeship.
The third purpose was achieved by appropriating £20 million ‹ a huge sum
in those days ‹ to compensate slave owners.
+++++++++++++++
It is worth noting that the moves towards Abolition of Slavery were
partially responsible for the breakaway of the American Colonies who
sought to ensure its retention
Things are rarely what they seem
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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| User: "Jos Flachs" |
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| Title: Re: America: Founded on Christian Values?? |
17 Jun 2004 09:01:34 PM |
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On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 15:53:12 -0700, jw
<john_weatherly47<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
Also, nowhere in the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence,
can you find a reference to "Christ" or "Christianity".
Old, tired, non-historical argument.
In fact, Christians led the way to emancipation; Harriet Beecher
Stowe, the author of Uncle Tom's Cabin, which enlightened the whole
nation as to the horrors of slavery, was a Christian.
So were de Torquemada and Adolf Hitler and is GW Scumbag. Appeal to
authority.
It is sometimes difficult to leave the past in the past. But
Christians have broken ground in MANY areas. And you have NEGLECTED to
point out that the first schools, universities, and hospitals in
America and in MANY third world countries were started by Christians.
So?
Find me a major city in America where there isn't a Baptist,
Methodist, Presbyterian, or Lutheran hospital. Elvis Presley was
pronounced dead in the Memphis Memorial Baptist Hospital ER.
Find me a city without a hospital in the USA. This is nonsense.
Among the first casualties of this war were missionaries who were
caring for widows and orphans. Bush ordered them out; they stayed, and
they died caring for those in their care.
Again, nonsense. Those missionaries were and are not even wanted there
by the people they want to convert.
Auberge d'EAC
** menu du jour **
[Holy] Pigeon Coated with Mango Sauce - a divine dish!
Votre chef:# aa 1987.
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| User: "gaffo" |
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| Title: Re: America: Founded on Christian Values?? |
17 Jun 2004 07:21:54 PM |
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jw
Among the first casualties of this war were missionaries who were
caring for widows and orphans. Bush ordered them out; they stayed, and
they died caring for those in their care.
jw
the first casualty was Truth.
--
http://baltimorechronicle.com/041704reTreason.shtml
http://www.truthinaction.net/iraq/illegaljayne.htm
As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. In both
instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged.
And it is in such twilight that we all must be aware of change in the air
-- however slight -lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness.
Justice William O. Douglas, US Supreme Court (1939-75)
"It shows us that there were senior people in the Bush administration who
were seriously contemplating the use of torture, and trying to figure out
whether there were any legal loopholes that might allow them to commit
criminal acts, They seem to be putting forward a theory that the president
in wartime can essentially do what he wants regardless of what the law
may say,"
Tom Malinowski of Human Rights Watch - commenting upon Defense
Department Lawyer
Will Dunham's 56-page legalization of torture memo.
If you add all of those up, you should have a conservative rebellion against
the giant corporation in the White House masquerading as a human being named
George W. Bush. Just as progressives have been abandoned by the corporate
Democrats and told, "You got nowhere to go other than to stay home or
vote for
the Democrats", this is the fate of the authentic conservatives in the
Republican Party.
Ralph Nader - June 2004 - The American Conservative Magazine
"But I believe in torture and I will torture you."
-An American soldier shares the joys of Democracy with
an Iraqi prisoner.
"My mother praises me for fighting the Americans. If we are killed,
our wives and mothers will rejoice that we died defending the
freedom of our country.
-Iraqi Mahdi fighter
"We were bleeding from 3 a.m. until sunrise, soon American soldiers came.
One of them kicked me to see if I was alive. I pretended I was dead
so he wouldn't kill me. The soldier was laughing, when Yousef cried,
the soldier said: "'No, stop,"
-Shihab, survivor of USSA bombing of Iraqi wedding.
"the absolute convergence of the neoconservatives with the Christian
Zionists
and the pro-Israel lobby, driving U.S. Mideast policy."
-Don Wagner, an evangelical South Carolina minister
"Bush, in Austin, criticized President Clinton's administration for
the Kosovo military action.'Victory means exit strategy, and it's important
for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is,' Bush said."
Houston Chronicle 4/9/99
"Iraqis are sick of foreign people coming in their country and trying to
destabilize their country."
Washington, D.C., May 5, 2004
"The new administration seems to be paying no attention to the problem
of terrorism. What they will do is stagger along until there's a major
incident and then suddenly say, 'Oh my God, shouldn't we be organized
to deal with this?'"
- Paul Bremer, speaking to a McCormick Tribune Foundation conference
on terrorism in Wheaton, Ill. on Feb. 26, 2001.
"On Jan. 26, 1998, President Clinton received a letter imploring him to use
his State of the Union address to make removal of Saddam Hussein's regime
the "aim of American foreign policy" and to use military action because
"diplomacy is failing." Were Clinton to do that, the signers pledged, they
would "offer our full support in this difficult but necessary endeavor."
Signing the pledge were Elliott Abrams, Bill Bennett, John Bolton, Robert
Kagan, William Kristol, Richard Perle, Richard L. Armitage, Jeffrey
Bergner,
Paula Dobriansky, Francis Fukuyama, Zalmay Khalilzad, Peter W. Rodman,
William Schneider, Jr., Vin Weber, R. James Woolsey and Robert B. Zoellick,
Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz. Four years before 9/11, the neocons had
Baghdad on their minds."
-philip (usenet)
"I had better things to do in the 60s than fight in Vietnam,"
-Richard Cheney, Kerry critic.
"I hope they will understand that in order for this government to get up
and running
- to be effective - some of its sovereignty will have to be given
back, if I can put it that way,
or limited by them, It's sovereignty but [some] of that sovereignty they
are going to allow us to exercise
on their behalf and with their permission."
- Powell 4/27/04
"We're trying to explain how things are going, and they are going as they
are going," he said, adding: "Some things are going well and some things
obviously are not going well. You're going to have good days and bad days."
On the road to democracy, this "is one moment, and there will be other
moments. And there will be good moments and there will be less good
moments."
- Rumsfeld 4/6/04
"I also have this belief, strong belief, that freedom is not this
country's gift to the world; freedom is the Almighty's gift to
every man and woman in this world. And as the greatest power on
the face of the Earth, we have an obligation to help the spread
of freedom."
~ Bush the Crusader
RUSSERT: Are you prepared to lose?
BUSH: No, I'm not going to lose.
RUSSERT: If you did, what would you do?
BUSH: Well, I don't plan on losing. I've got a vision for what I want to
do for the country.
See, I know exactly where I want to lead.................And we got
changing times
here in America, too., 2/8/04
"And that's very important for, I think, the people to understand where
I'm coming from,
to know that this is a dangerous world. I wish it wasn't. I'm a war
president.
I make decisions here in the Oval Office in foreign policy matters with
war on my mind.
- pResident of the United State of America, 2/8/04
"Let's talk about the nuclear proposition for a minute. We know that
based on intelligence, that he has been very, very good at hiding
these kinds of efforts. He's had years to get good at it and we know
he has been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear weapons.
And we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons."
- Vice President ***** Cheney, on "Meet the Press", 3/16/03
"I don't know anybody that I can think of who has contended that the
Iraqis had nuclear weapons."
- Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, 6/24/03
"I think in this case international law
stood in the way of doing the right thing (invading Iraq)."
- Richard Perle
"He (Saddam Hussein) has not developed any significant capability with
respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project
conventional power against his neighbours."
- Colin Powell February 24 2001
"We have been successful for the last ten years in keeping
him from developing those weapons and we will continue to be successful."
"He threatens not the United States."
"But I also thought that we had pretty
much removed his stings and frankly for ten years we really have."
'But what is interesting is that with the regime that has been in place
for the past ten years, I think a pretty good job has been done of
keeping him from breaking out and suddenly showing up one day and saying
"look what I got." He hasn't been able to do that.'
- Colin Powell February 26 2001
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