dave-dewolfe@sbcglobal.net (Dave DeWolfe) wrote in message news:<51e38557.0406170139.1fe3489b@posting.google.com>...

Evangelicals and Fundamentalists are quick to point out that America
was "founded on Christian values and principals."

It seems that you Bible thumping holy rollers have forgotten that it
was legal to OWN a slave in America from 1787 when the Constitution
was signed until 1865 when the 13th Amendment was ratified which
banned slavery.

Yes, these so-called "Christian" founders of our country apparently
considered people of "color" to be less than human.

Also, nowhere in the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence,
can you find a reference to "Christ" or "Christianity".


Dave

Dave, DAve, Dave, you know better. Slavery is supported in both the
Old and New Testaments. Its Christian just like killing those who do
not believe in God the way you do is Christian; or which end of one's
the egg one opens.

dave-dewolfe@sbcglobal.net (Dave DeWolfe) wrote in message news:<51e38557.0406170139.1fe3489b@posting.google.com>...

Evangelicals and Fundamentalists are quick to point out that America
was "founded on Christian values and principals."

It seems that you Bible thumping holy rollers have forgotten that it
was legal to OWN a slave in America from 1787 when the Constitution
was signed until 1865 when the 13th Amendment was ratified which
banned slavery.

Yes, these so-called "Christian" founders of our country apparently
considered people of "color" to be less than human.

Also, nowhere in the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence,
can you find a reference to "Christ" or "Christianity".


Dave

Dave, DAve, Dave, you know better. Slavery is supported in both the
Old and New Testaments. Its Christian just like killing those who do
not believe in God the way you do is Christian; or which end of one's
the egg one opens.

JohnN

Subject: America: Founded on Christian Values??
From:

Yes, according to the bible thumpers every one of our founding fathers were
born again, fundamentalist Christians. Of course this isn't true but they love
shouting it from the rooftops.

It seems that you Bible thumping holy rollers have forgotten that it
was legal to OWN a slave in America from 1787 when the Constitution
was signed until 1865 when the 13th Amendment was ratified which
banned slavery.

Their bible speaks of slavery in nothing but glowing terms. So what do you
expect from these folks?

Yes, these so-called "Christian" founders of our country apparently
considered people of "color" to be less than human.

Also, nowhere in the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence,
can you find a reference to "Christ" or "Christianity".

Yep, the words Jehovah, Yahweh, Jesus, Christian or Bible do not appear
anywhere in our founding documents. Then again neither does the word
democracy, but I degress

Dave

Subject: America: Founded on Christian Values??
From:

Yes, according to the bible thumpers every one of our founding fathers were
born again, fundamentalist Christians. Of course this isn't true but they love
shouting it from the rooftops.

Dave DeWolfe (dave-dewolfe@sbcglobal.net) wrote:
: Evangelicals and Fundamentalists are quick to point out that America
: was "founded on Christian values and principals."
:
: It seems that you Bible thumping holy rollers have forgotten that it
: was legal to OWN a slave in America from 1787 when the Constitution
: was signed until 1865 when the 13th Amendment was ratified which
: banned slavery.
:
: Yes, these so-called "Christian" founders of our country apparently
: considered people of "color" to be less than human.
:
: Also, nowhere in the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence,
: can you find a reference to "Christ" or "Christianity".

There's a lot more to be said:

Of the many foundations of our country, I was able to find two
which are supported in the Bible, and several which run contrary
to the Bible.

THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE. Although the Declaration isn't
really a legal document of the U.S.(since there wasn't any US until
1787), it is important historically and philosophically. It is a
document intended to justify revolution
against an established royal government. The Bible, however, says
"the powers that be are ordained of God" (Romans 13:1-7), and "For
kings, and for all that are in authority" (I Timothy 2:2), thus giving
rise to the idea of divine right of kings. I find no mention of
"consent of the governed" in the Bible, as the Declaration demands.
While the Declaration deplores taxation without representation, Jesus
says, regarding taxation, "Render therefore unto Caesar the things
which are Caesar's" (Matthew 22:21)

FREEDOM OF SPEECH. I don't find in the Bible any defense of freedom
of speech. On the contrary: "he that doubteth is damned" (Romans
14:23); "there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers...whose
mouths must be stopped.." (Titus, 1:10-11); and "These six things doth
the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: ......and he
that soweth discord among brethren." (Proverbs 6:16-19). The last
passage could be construed as being against democracy, since anyone
who runs for office against an existing administration is sowing
discord.

RELIGIOUS TOLERANCE. This is embraced in both the original
Constitution (Article VI, paragraph 3) and in the First Amendment.
Yet in the Bible we have: "Thou shalt have no other gods before me"
(Exodus 20:3); "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" (Exodus 22:18);
"He that sacrifice unto any god save the Lord only, he shall be
utterly destroyed" (Exodus 22:20); "He who is not with me is against
me" (Matthew 12:30, Luke 11:23); "he that blasphemeth the name of the
LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall
certainly stone him" (Leviticus 24:16). [Such stoning was actually
carried out, in 1 Kings 21:13] Anyone proselytizing for another religion
is to be put to death, and if that person is a member of your family, you
are to strike the first blow to kill him or her (Deuteronomy 13:5-10).
The practice of "shunning" someone who disagrees with you on religious
matters is advised in 2 Thessalonians 3:14.

A REPUBLICAN FORM OF GOVERNMENT. Our Constitution demands this
(Article IV, Section 4). But I find nothing in the Bible to support
it. On the contrary, Romans 13:1-7 tells people to obey authority
because it is instituted by God. Also, 1 Peter 2:13 can be interpreted in
the same way.

"CORRUPTION OF THE BLOOD" is forbidden by the Constitution (Article
III, Section 3, paragraph 2). In the Bible, though: "Prepare slaughter
for his children for the iniquity of their fathers (Isaiah 14:21).
[However, the Bible does contradict itself on this: "... neither shall
the children be put to death for the fathers" (Deut 24:16)]. Also:
"visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third
and fourth generation" (Exodus 20:5, 34:7, Numbers 14:18, Deut. 5:9);
"His blood be on us, and on our children" (Matthew 27:25). Bastards
may not enter the temple, nor their descendants (Deut. 23:2). God
even killed a baby because of a sin by its father (2 Samuel 12:14).
Ahab escaped punishment for murder by making an elaborate apology, and
his descendants were punished instead (I Kings 21:29). The doctrine
of original sin is also against this part of the Constitution.

SLAVERY. This was an important social and economic foundation of our
country both before and after independence. It was an institution
condoned by the founders and recognized and defended by the original
Constitution (Article I, Section 2, paragraph 3; Article I, Section 9;
Article IV, Section 2, paragraph 3). Slavery is also condoned in both
the Old and New Testaments, but it is never condemned. On the contrary,
it is codified, and made an inherited condition:
Exodus 21:4ff gives rules for keeping slaves. Leviticus 25:44-46
says that heathen may be purchased as slaves, that their children
become slaves, and that they are inherited as property by the owner's
children forever. Other places that indicate that slavery is a
hereditary condition are: Genesis 9:25, Exodus 21:4, Corinthians
7:20. Deuteronomy 20:10-14 says that when you conquer a city, if it
surrenders then all people inside it become your slaves; but if it
doesn't surrender, then all males are to be killed and all women and
children "take unto thyself". Luke 12:47-8 shows that Jesus approves
of slavery, for he describes the conditions under which one should
give a severe beating to a slave. 1 Timothy 6:1-2 tells slaves to
honor their masters.
In the book of Philemon, Paul sends a runaway slave, Onesimus, back
to his former master. But this conflicts with the admonition in
Deuteronomy 23:15 "Thou shalt not deliver unto his master the servant
which has escaped..." So the Bible is on both sides of the 1857 Dred
Scott case!

TREATMENT OF THE INDIAN PEOPLE. Here is another place where one of
the foundations of our country is justified by the Bible. "Then ye
shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and
destroy....And ye shall dispossess the inhabitants of the land, and
dwell therein.." (Numbers 33:52-53). This biblical injunction was
obeyed many times by Americans.

A NOTE ON THE TREATY OF TRIPOLI. This treaty with the Bey of Tripoli
was negotiated by the administration of President George Washington,
and finally signed and ratified during the administration of President
John Adams, in 1797. Article 11 of the English-language version says
"the United States is in no sense based on the Christian religion".
(There is a mystery about this, since Article 11 doesn't appear in the
Arabic version! It's a fair presumption, though, that the English
version is what was signed by President Adams and duly ratified by the
U. S. Senate. See Bevans: Treaties and Other International Agreements
of the United States of America, 1776-1989, volume 11 and David Humphreys:
Miscellaneous Works (1804).)

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 02:39:04 -0700 in episode
<51e38557.0406170139.1fe3489b@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
dave-dewolfe@sbcglobal.net (Dave DeWolfe):

Evangelicals and Fundamentalists are quick to point out that America was
"founded on Christian values and principals."

It seems that you Bible thumping holy rollers have forgotten that it was
legal to OWN a slave in America from 1787 when the Constitution was signed
until 1865 when the 13th Amendment was ratified which banned slavery.

Yes, these so-called "Christian" founders of our country apparently
considered people of "color" to be less than human.

Also, nowhere in the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence, can
you find a reference to "Christ" or "Christianity".

Not to mention that "thou shalt not kill"

and "thou shalt not steal"

seem
to have had asterisks next to them with a note:

"Unless thou wants native lands."

(It's an amazingly flexible absolute morality they got)

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 02:39:04 -0700 in episode
<51e38557.0406170139.1fe3489b@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
dave-dewolfe@sbcglobal.net (Dave DeWolfe):

Evangelicals and Fundamentalists are quick to point out that America was
"founded on Christian values and principals."

It seems that you Bible thumping holy rollers have forgotten that it was
legal to OWN a slave in America from 1787 when the Constitution was signed
until 1865 when the 13th Amendment was ratified which banned slavery.

Yes, these so-called "Christian" founders of our country apparently
considered people of "color" to be less than human.

Also, nowhere in the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence, can
you find a reference to "Christ" or "Christianity".

Not to mention that "thou shalt not kill" and "thou shalt not steal" seem
to have had asterisks next to them with a note:

"Unless thou wants native lands."

(It's an amazingly flexible absolute morality they got)