| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Richard Dawkins" |
| Date: |
23 Nov 2005 05:29:12 AM |
| Object: |
An Atheist Fairy tale |
What is the evidence?
A Parable:
Suppose a man walks up to you and says "I'm a billionaire."
You say "Prove it."
He says "ok", and he points across the street at a bank. "My money is in
that bank there." (The bank is closed.)
You say "What does that prove?"
He says "Everyone knows banks have money in them"
You say "I know there is money in the bank, but why should I believe that
it's YOUR money?"
"Because it's GREEN" he says.
"What else can you show me?"
He reaches in his pocket and pulls out a penny. "See -- I'm a billionaire."
You're still skeptical. 'What does that prove?', you ask.
"I'M A BILLIONAIRE" he states loudly (obviously annoyed that you would
question him). He reaches in another pocket and pulls out another penny, "Do
you believe me now?"
The number of intermediate and transitional links between all living and
extinct species, must have been inconceivably great.~ Charles Darwin
But just in proportion as this process of extermination has acted on an
enormous scale, so must the number of intermediate varieties, which have
formerly existed, be truly enormous. Why then is not every geological
formation and every stratum full of such intermediate links? Geology
assuredly does not reveal any such finely graduated organic chain; and this,
perhaps, is the most obvious and serious objection which can be urged
against the theory. The explanation lies, as I believe, in the extreme
imperfection of the geological record. ~ Charles Darwin
He who rejects these views on the nature of the geologic record, will
rightly reject my whole theory. ~ Charles Darwin
Darwin invoked his standard argument to resolve this uncomfortable problem:
the fossil record is so imperfect that we do not have evidence for most
events of life's history. But even Darwin acknowledged that his favorite
ploy was wearing a bit thin in this case. His argument could easily account
for a missing stage in a single linage, but could the agencies of
imperfection really obliterate absolutely all evidence for positively every
creature during most of life's history? Darwin admitted: "The case as
present must remain inexplicable; and may be truly urged as a valid argument
against the views here entertained." (1859, p.308)
Darwin has been vindicated by a rich Precambrian record, all discovered in
the past thirty years. Yet the peculiar character of this evidence has not
matched Darwin's prediction of a continuous rise in complexity toward
Cambrian life, and the problem of the Cambrian explosion has remained as
stubborn as ever -- if not more so, since our confusion now rests on
knowledge, rather than ignorance about the nature of Precambrian life. ~
Stephen Jay Gould
Darwin's prediction of rampant, albeit gradual, change affecting all
lineages through time is refuted. The record is there, and the record speaks
for tremendous anatomical conservatism. Change in the manner Darwin expected
is just not found in the fossil record. ~ Niles Eldredge
There seems to have been almost no change in any part we can compare between
the living organism and its fossilized progenitors of the remote geological
past. Living fossils embody the theme of evolutionary stability to an
extreme degree...We have not completely solved the riddle of living fossils.
~ Niles Eldredge
When we descend to details, we can prove that no one species has changed
(i.e. we cannot prove that a single species has changed): nor can we prove
that the supposed changes are beneficial, which is the groundwork of the
theory. ~ Charles Darwin
As Ernst Mayr, one of the founders of the modern synthetic theory of
evolution, pointed out in his Systematics and the Origin of Species (1942)
Darwin never really did discuss the origin of species in his The Origin of
Species. ~ Niles Eldredge
It is now approximately half a century since the neo-Darwinian synthesis was
formulated. A great deal of research has been carried on within the
paradigm it defines. Yet the successes of the theory are limited to the
interpretation of the minutiae of evolution, such as the adaptive change in
coloration of moths; while it has remarkably little to say on the questions
which interest us most, such as how there came to be moths in the first
place. ~ Mae-Wan Ho and Peter Saunders
Anything truly novel always seemed to appear quite abruptly in the fossil
record. ~ Ernst Mayr
There is no doubt that natural selection is a mechanism, that it works. It
has been repeatedly demonstrated by experiment. There is no doubt at all
that it works. But the question of whether it produces new species is quite
another matter. No one has ever produced a species by mechanisms of natural
selection. ~ Colin Patterson
What is the use of their unceasing mutations, if they do not change? In sum,
the mutations of bacteria and viruses are merely hereditary fluctuations
around a median position; a swing to the right, a swing to the left, but no
final evolutionary effect. ~ Pierre Grasse
Anatomy may fluctuate over time, but the last remnants of a species usually
look pretty much like the first representatives. ~ Stephen Jay Gould
All paleontologists know that the fossil record contains precious little in
the way of intermediate forms; transitions between major groups are
characteristically abrupt. ~ Stephen Jay Gould
Fossils may tell us many things, but one thing they can never disclose is
whether they were ancestors of anything else. ~ Colin Patterson
The evolutionary trees that adorn our textbooks have data only at the tips
and nodes of their branches; the rest is inference, however reasonable, not
the evidence of fossils. ~ Stephen Jay Gould
The Origin of Species converted the majority of its readers to a belief in
Darwinian evolution. We must now ask whether this was an unadulterated
benefit to biology and to mankind... I do not contest the fact that the
advent of the evolutionary idea, due mainly to the Origin, very greatly
stimulated biological research. But it appears to me that owing precisely to
the nature of the stimulus, a great deal of this work was directed into
unprofitable channels or devoted to the pursuit of will-o'- the-wisps. I am
not the only biologist of this opinion. Darwin's conviction that evolution
is the result of natural selection, acting on small fortuitous variations,
says Guyenot, was to delay the progress of investigations on evolution by
half a century. Really fruitful researches on heredity did not begin until
the rediscovery in 1900 of the fundamental work of Mendel, published in 1865
and owing nothing to the work of Darwin. ~ W.R. Thompson
Through use and abuse of hidden postulates, of bold, often ill-founded
extrapolations, a pseudoscience has been created. It is taking root in the
very heart of biology and is leading astray many biochemists and biologists,
who sincerely believe that the accuracy of fundamental concepts has been
demonstrated, which is not the case. ~ Pierre Grasse
The opposite truth has been affirmed by innumerable cases of measurable
evolution at this minimal scale-but, to be visible at all over so short a
span, evolution must be far too rapid (and transient) to serve as the basis
for major transformations in geological time. Hence, the "paradox of the
visibly irrelevant"-or, if you can see it at all, it's too fast to matter in
the long run. ~ Stephen Jay Gould
The central question of the Chicago conference was whether the mechanisms
underlying microevolution can be extrapolated to explain the phenomena of
macroevolution. At the risk of doing violence to the positions of some of
the people at the meeting, the answer can be given as a clear No. ~ Roger
Lewin
Molecular biology has shown that even the simplest of all living systems on
the earth today, bacterial cells, are exceedingly complex objects. Although
the tiniest bacterial cells are incredibly small, weighing less than 10-12
gms, each is in effect a veritable micro-miniaturized factory containing
thousands of exquisitely designed pieces of intricate molecular machinery,
made up altogether of one hundred thousand million atoms, far more
complicated than any machine built by man and absolutely without parallel in
the nonliving world. ~ Michael Denton
On experimental grounds, I have shown that there are no known random
mutations that have added any genetic information to the organism. I go
through a list of the best examples of mutations offered by evolutionists
and show that each of them loses genetic information rather than gains it.
One of the examples that where information is lost is the one often trotted
out by evolutionists nowadays in an attempt to convince the public of the
truth of evolution. That is the evolution of bacterial resistance to
antibiotics. ~ Lee Spetner See also: virus
It is the great irony of modern evolutionary genetics that the spirit of
explanation has moved more and more towards optimal adaptation, while the
technical developments of population genetics of the past 30 years have been
increasingly to show the efficacy of non adaptive forces in evolution. ~
Richard Lewontin
By irreducibly complex I mean a single system composed of several
well-matched, interacting parts that contribute to the basic function,
wherein the removal of any one of the parts causes the system to effectively
cease functioning. An irreducibly complex system cannot be produced directly
(that is, by continuously improving the initial function, which continues to
work by the same mechanism) by slight, successive modification of a
precursor, system, because any precursors to an irreducibly complex system
that is missing a part is by definition nonfunctional. ~ Michael Behe
In the abstract, it might be tempting to imagine that irreducible complexity
simply requires multiple simultaneous mutations -- that evolution might be
far chancier than we thought, but still possible. Such an appeal to brute
luck can never be refuted... Luck is metaphysical speculation; scientific
explanations invoke causes. ~ Michael Behe
The information necessary to specify the design of all the species of
organisms which have ever existed on the planet, a number according to G. G.
Simpson of approximately one thousand million, could be held in a teaspoon
and there would still be room left for all the information in every book
ever written. ~ Michael Denton
They conceived the evidence that would carry the vital intellectual
argument, but at its core lay flawed science, dubious methodology and
wishful thinking. Clustered around the peppered moth is a swarm of human
ambition, and self-delusions shared among some of the most renowned
evolutionary biologists of our era. ~ Judith Hooper See also: 1 2
It was a failing of Haeckel as a would-be scientist that his hand as an
artist altered what he saw with what should have been the eye of a more
accurate beholder. He was more than once, often justifiably, accused of
scientific falsification, by Wilhelm His and by many others. For only two
examples, in"Anthropogenie" he drew the developing brain of a fish as
curved, because that of reptiles, birds, and mammals is bent. But the
vesicles of a fish brain always form in a straight line. He drew the
embryonic membranes of man as including a small sac-like allantois, an
embryonic organ characteristic of and larger in reptiles, birds, and some
nonhuman mammals. The human embryo has no sac-like allantois at all. Only
its narrow solid stock remains to conduct the umbilical blood vessels
between embryo and placenta. Examples could be multiplied significantly. ~
Jane Oppenheimer See also: 1 2 3 4
All K-Ar and Ar-Ar "dates" of volcanic rocks are questionable, as well as
fossil "dates" calibrated by them. ~ Andrew Snelling See also: 1 2
Beginning in 1980 with the dinosaur/asteroid controversy, it has more
recently become popular for geologists to consider not just local, but
global catastrophes to account for the geologic evidence they see. One can
be assured that for a community to have made such an incredible shift -- in
spite of the strong association which exists between catastrophism and
creationism -- there must be profound evidence for catastrophe throughout
the geologic column. ~ Kurt Wise
To press the matter further, if there were a basic principle of matter which
somehow drove organic systems toward life, its existence should easily be
demonstrable in the laboratory. One could, for instance, take a swimming
bath to represent the primordial soup. Fill it with any chemicals of a non-
biological nature you please. Pump any gases over it, or through it, you
please, and shine any kind of radiation on it that takes your fancy. Let the
experiment proceed for a year and see how many of those 2,000 enzymes have
appeared in the bath. I will give the answer, and so save the time and
trouble and expense of actually doing the experiment. You would find nothing
at all, except possibly for a tarry sludge composed of amino acids and other
simple organic chemicals. How can I be so confident of this statement? Well,
if it were otherwise, the experiment would long since have been done and
would be well known and famous throughout the world. The cost of it would be
trivial compared to the cost of landing a man on the Moon... In short there
is not a shred of objective evidence to support the hypothesis that life
began in an organic soup here on Earth. ~ Fred Hoyle
If you wanted to produce carbon and oxygen in roughly equal quantities by
stellar nucleosynthesis, these are the two levels you would have to fix, and
your fixing would have to be just about where these levels are actually
found to be... A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a
superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as with chemistry and
biology, and that there are no blind forces worth speaking about in nature.
The numbers one calculates from the facts seem to me so overwhelming as to
put this conclusion almost beyond question. ~ Fred Hoyle
In fact the a priori reasoning is so entirely satisfactory to me that if the
facts won't fit in, why so much the worse for the facts is my feeling. ~
Erasmus Darwin
Complete objectivity in science is an illusion. Because so much of one's
analysis depends upon metaphysical assumptions, it should be acknowledged by
this writer, and by all readers, that the answer one gives to a question
depends to a great extent on the metaphysical position one has previously
adopted. ~ Dean Overman
Darwinists believe that the mutation-selection mechanism accomplishes
wonders of creativity not because the wonders can be demonstrated, but
because they cannot think of a more plausible explanation for the existence
of wonders that does not involve an unacceptable creator, i.e., a being or
force outside the world of nature. ~ Phillip Johnson
It struck me that I had been working on this stuff for twenty years and
there was not one thing I knew about it. That's quite a shock to learn that
one can be so misled so long...so for the last few weeks I've tried putting
a simple question to various people and groups of people. Question is: Can
you tell me anything you know about evolution, any one thing that is true? I
tried that question on the geology staff at the Field Museum of Natural
History and the only answer I got was silence. I tried it on the members of
the Evolutionary Morphology Seminar in the University of Chicago, a very
prestigious body of evolutionists, and all I got there was silence for a
long time and eventually one person said, 'I do know one thing -- it ought
not to be taught in high school'. ~ Colin Patterson
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| User: "Yournameheres personal Cthulhu" |
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| Title: Re: An Atheist Fairy tale |
23 Nov 2005 08:43:35 AM |
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"Richard Dawkins" <Dawkins@Hell.com> suddenly spluttered:
A Parable:
Suppose a man walks up to you and says "I'm made of straw."
You say "Prove it, set fire to yourself"
There! I fixed it for you, and you know what? You don't even have to
thank me.
------------------------------------------------
Conflict over the exact will/purpose/nature of God cannot ever be
resolved, since there are no facts to go on.
D Silverman FLAHN, SMLAHN
AA #2208
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: An Atheist Fairy tale |
23 Nov 2005 11:29:27 PM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Richard Dawkins
(Dawkins@Hell.com) made the light shine upon us with this:
What is the evidence?
A Parable:
Suppose a man walks up to you and says "Jesus is the son of god."
You say "Prove it."
He says "ok", and he points across the street at a church. "My Jesus
is in that church there." (The church is closed.)
You say "What does that prove?"
He says "Everyone knows churches have jesus in them"
You say "I know there is jesus belief in the church, but why should I
believe that it's GOD'S Jesus?"
"Because I said so" he says.
"What else can you show me?"
He reaches in his pocket and pulls out a cross. "See -- I'm a
believer." You're still skeptical. 'What does that prove?', you
ask. "I'M A BELIEVER" he states loudly (obviously annoyed that you
would question him). He reaches in another pocket and pulls out
another cross, "Do you believe me now?"
It works better this way, Raytard. The problem with your version is that
you ignore the facts because they debunk your silly beliefs. Ain't that
just too fucking bad?
--
Uncle Vic
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
----
"GARGOYLES, PSYCHICS, EVERYTHING UNGODLY, GET THE HELL OUT OF MY
HOUSE, IN JESUS NAME I PRAY. THE DARK SIDE, SHE's NOT A CHRISTIAN,
SHE'S DARK-SIDED, SHE'S DARK-SIDED, THIS IS MY HOUSE, I WANT MY GOD
AND I WANT MY FAMILY. I AM A GOD WARRIOR SHE'S A SPIRITUAL WARRIOR,
SHE WAS THROWN IN THE PITS, OH NO THE HORRORS"
Ain't Christianity great?
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: An Atheist Fairy tale |
24 Nov 2005 10:50:02 AM |
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Uncle Vic wrote:
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Richard Dawkins
(Dawkins@Hell.com) made the light shine upon us with this:
What is the evidence?
A Parable:
Suppose a man walks up to you and says "Jesus is the son of god."
You say "Prove it."
He says "ok", and he points across the street at a church. "My Jesus
is in that church there." (The church is closed.)
You say "What does that prove?"
He says "Everyone knows churches have jesus in them"
You say "I know there is jesus belief in the church, but why should I
believe that it's GOD'S Jesus?"
"Because I said so" he says.
"What else can you show me?"
He reaches in his pocket and pulls out a cross. "See -- I'm a
believer." You're still skeptical. 'What does that prove?', you
ask. "I'M A BELIEVER" he states loudly (obviously annoyed that you
would question him). He reaches in another pocket and pulls out
another cross, "Do you believe me now?"
It works better this way, Raytard. The problem with your version is that
you ignore the facts because they debunk your silly beliefs. Ain't that
just too fucking bad?
I wonder - can he sleep nights?
Bob
"Metaphysics is almost always an attempt to prove
the incredible by an appeal to the unintelligible."
[H.L. Mencken, "Prejudices"]
--
Uncle Vic
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
----
"GARGOYLES, PSYCHICS, EVERYTHING UNGODLY, GET THE HELL OUT OF MY
HOUSE, IN JESUS NAME I PRAY. THE DARK SIDE, SHE's NOT A CHRISTIAN,
SHE'S DARK-SIDED, SHE'S DARK-SIDED, THIS IS MY HOUSE, I WANT MY GOD
AND I WANT MY FAMILY. I AM A GOD WARRIOR SHE'S A SPIRITUAL WARRIOR,
SHE WAS THROWN IN THE PITS, OH NO THE HORRORS"
Ain't Christianity great?
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| User: "Ben Kaufman" |
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| Title: Re: An Atheist Fairy tale |
25 Nov 2005 01:50:17 PM |
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On 24 Nov 2005 04:50:02 -0600, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote:
Uncle Vic wrote:
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Richard Dawkins
(Dawkins@Hell.com) made the light shine upon us with this:
What is the evidence?
A Parable:
Suppose a man walks up to you and says "Jesus is the son of god."
You say "Prove it."
He says "ok", and he points across the street at a church. "My Jesus
is in that church there." (The church is closed.)
You say "What does that prove?"
He says "Everyone knows churches have jesus in them"
You say "I know there is jesus belief in the church, but why should I
believe that it's GOD'S Jesus?"
"Because I said so" he says.
"What else can you show me?"
He reaches in his pocket and pulls out a cross. "See -- I'm a
believer." You're still skeptical. 'What does that prove?', you
ask. "I'M A BELIEVER" he states loudly (obviously annoyed that you
would question him). He reaches in another pocket and pulls out
another cross, "Do you believe me now?"
It works better this way, Raytard. The problem with your version is that
you ignore the facts because they debunk your silly beliefs. Ain't that
just too fucking bad?
I wonder - can he sleep nights?
Bob
"Metaphysics is almost always an attempt to prove
the incredible by an appeal to the unintelligible."
[H.L. Mencken, "Prejudices"]
Fanatical believers are in a perpetual sleep.
Ben
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| User: "Godoit" |
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| Title: Re: An Atheist Fairy tale |
25 Nov 2005 07:28:25 PM |
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When I saw a fish take off for about 20 yards and fly along the water
between mexico and cozimel I knew that evolution was probably real.
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: An Atheist Fairy tale |
24 Nov 2005 05:20:33 PM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet bob young
(alaspectrum@netvigator.com) made the light shine upon us with this:
It works better this way, Raytard. The problem with your version is
that you ignore the facts because they debunk your silly beliefs.
Ain't that just too fucking bad?
I wonder - can he sleep nights?
I imagine he dreams of scientists in black labcoats trying to clone the
devil.
--
Uncle Vic
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
----
"GARGOYLES, PSYCHICS, EVERYTHING UNGODLY, GET THE HELL OUT OF MY
HOUSE, IN JESUS NAME I PRAY. THE DARK SIDE, SHE's NOT A CHRISTIAN,
SHE'S DARK-SIDED, SHE'S DARK-SIDED, THIS IS MY HOUSE, I WANT MY GOD
AND I WANT MY FAMILY. I AM A GOD WARRIOR SHE'S A SPIRITUAL WARRIOR,
SHE WAS THROWN IN THE PITS, OH NO THE HORRORS"
Ain't Christianity great?
.
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| User: "Ben Kaufman" |
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| Title: Re: An Atheist Fairy tale |
25 Nov 2005 01:52:09 PM |
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On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 11:20:33 -0600, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com> wrote:
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet bob young
(alaspectrum@netvigator.com) made the light shine upon us with this:
It works better this way, Raytard. The problem with your version is
that you ignore the facts because they debunk your silly beliefs.
Ain't that just too fucking bad?
I wonder - can he sleep nights?
I imagine he dreams of scientists in black labcoats trying to clone the
devil.
I didn't know that robots dream.
Ben
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| User: "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrichs effort" |
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| Title: Re: An Atheist Fairy tale |
25 Nov 2005 02:25:50 PM |
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Ben Kaufman wrote:
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 11:20:33 -0600, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com> wrote:
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet bob young
(alaspectrum@netvigator.com) made the light shine upon us with this:
It works better this way, Raytard. The problem with your version is
that you ignore the facts because they debunk your silly beliefs.
Ain't that just too fucking bad?
I wonder - can he sleep nights?
I imagine he dreams of scientists in black labcoats trying to clone the
devil.
I didn't know that robots dream.
Electric sheep.
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| User: "Lee" |
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| Title: Re: An Atheist Fairy tale |
25 Nov 2005 03:22:20 PM |
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I didn't know that robots dream.
Electric sheep.
Uh yes, another ***** :)
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| User: "Ash" |
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| Title: Re: An Atheist Fairy tale |
23 Nov 2005 01:24:23 PM |
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Ray wrote:
What is the evidence?
A Parable:
Suppose a man walks up to you and says "I'm a billionaire."
You say "Prove it."
He says "ok", and he points across the street at a bank. "My money is in
that bank there." (The bank is closed.)
You say "What does that prove?"
He says "Everyone knows banks have money in them"
You say "I know there is money in the bank, but why should I believe that
it's YOUR money?"
"Because it's GREEN" he says.
"What else can you show me?"
He reaches in his pocket and pulls out a penny. "See -- I'm a billionaire."
You're still skeptical. 'What does that prove?', you ask.
"I'M A BILLIONAIRE" he states loudly (obviously annoyed that you would
question him). He reaches in another pocket and pulls out another penny, "Do
you believe me now?"
Decent analogy for religious beliefs, but as it comes from Ray, we can
expect some sort of twist
Snip irrelevance
So, Science, America, Christians with actual faith.
What else do you hate Ray?
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| User: "Del" |
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| Title: Re: An Atheist Fairy tale |
23 Nov 2005 04:05:57 PM |
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Richard Dawkins wrote:
What is the evidence?
Out of context and unreferenced quotes is desperation time
dishonesty by a very insecure theist. See the Quote Mine
Project:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/quotes/mine/project.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/ce/3/part5.html
The number of intermediate and transitional links between all living and
extinct species, must have been inconceivably great.~ Charles Darwin
But just in proportion as this p rocess of extermination has acted on an
enormous scale, so must the number of intermediate varieties, which have
formerly existed, be truly enormous. Why then is not every geological
formation and every stratum full of such intermediate links? Ge ology
assuredly does not reveal any such finely graduated organic chain; and this,
perhaps, is the most obvious and serious objection which can be urged
against the theory. The explanation lies, as I believe, in the extreme
imperfection of the geological record. ~ Charles Darwin
He who rejects these views on the nature of the geologic record, will
rightly reject my whole theory. ~ Charles Darwin
Darwin invoked his standard argument to resolve this uncomfortable problem:
the fossil record is so imperfect that we do not have evidence for most
events of life's history. But even Darwin acknowledged that his favorite
ploy was wearing a bit thin in this case. His argument could easily account
for a missing stage in a single linage, but could the agencies of
imperfection really obliterate absolutely all evidence for positively every
creature during most of life's history? Darwin admitted: "The case as
present must remain inexplicable; and may be truly urged as a valid argument
against the views here entertained." (1859, p.308)
Darwin has been vindicated by a rich Precambrian record, all discovered in
the past thirty years. Yet the peculiar character of this evidence has not
matched Darwin's predicti on of a continuous rise in complexity toward
Cambrian life, and the problem of the Cambrian explosion has remained as
stubborn as ever -- if not more so, since our confusion now rests on
knowledge, rather than ignorance about the nature of Precambrian life. ~
Stephen Jay Gould
Darwin's prediction of rampant, albeit gradual, change affecting all
lineages through time is refuted. The record is there, and the record speaks
for tremendous anatomical conservatism. Change in the manner Darwin expected
is just not found in the fossil record. ~ Niles Eldredge
There seems to have been almost no change in any part we can compare between
the living organism and its fossilized progenitors of the remote geological
past. Living f ossils embody the theme of evolutionary stability to an
extreme degree...We have not completely solved the riddle of living fossils.
~ Niles Eldredge
When we descend to details, we can prove that no one species has changed
(i.e. we cannot pr ove that a single species has changed): nor can we prove
that the supposed changes are beneficial, which is the groundwork of the
theory. ~ Charles Darwin
As Ernst Mayr, one of the founders of the modern synthetic theory of
evolution, point ed out in his Systematics and the Origin of Species (1942)
Darwin never really did discuss the origin of species in his The Origin of
Species. ~ Niles Eldredge
It is now approximately half a century since the neo-Darwinian synthesis was
form ulated. A great deal of research has been carried on within the
paradigm it defines. Yet the successes of the theory are limited to the
interpretation of the minutiae of evolution, such as the adaptive change in
coloration of moths; while it has remarkably little to say on the questions
which interest us most, such as how there came to be moths in the first
place. ~ Mae-Wan Ho and Peter Saunders
Anything truly novel always seemed to appear quite abruptly in the fossil
record. ~ Ernst Mayr
There is no doubt that natural selection is a mechanism, that it works. It
has been repeatedly demonstrated by experiment. There is no doubt at all
that it works. But the question of whether it produces new species is quite
another matter. No one has ever produced a species by mechanisms of natural
selection. ~ Colin Patterson
What is the use of their unceasing mutations, if they do not change? In sum,
the mutations of bacteria and viruses are merely hereditary fluctuati ons
around a median position; a swing to the right, a swing to the left, but no
final evolutionary effect. ~ Pierre Grasse
Anatomy may fluctuate over time, but the last remnants of a species usually
look pretty much like the first represent atives. ~ Stephen Jay Gould
All paleontologists know that the fossil record contains precious little in
the way of intermediate forms; transitions between major groups are
characteristically abrupt. ~ Stephen Jay Gould
Fossils may tell u s many things, but one thing they can never disclose is
whether they were ancestors of anything else. ~ Colin Patterson
The evolutionary trees that adorn our textbooks have data only at the tips
and nodes of their branches; the rest is inferenc e, however reasonable, not
the evidence of fossils. ~ Stephen Jay Gould
The Origin of Species converted the majority of its readers to a belief in
Darwinian evolution. We must now ask whether this was an unadulterated
benefit to biology and to mankind... I do not contest the fact that the
advent of the evolutionary idea, due mainly to the Origin, very greatly
stimulated biological research. But it appears to me that owing precisely to
the nature of the stimulus, a great deal of thi s work was directed into
unprofitable channels or devoted to the pursuit of will-o'- the-wisps. I am
not the only biologist of this opinion. Darwin's conviction that evolution
is the result of natural selection, acting on small fortuitous variati ons,
says Guyenot, was to delay the progress of investigations on evolution by
half a century. Really fruitful researches on heredity did not begin until
the rediscovery in 1900 of the fundamental work of Mendel, published in 1865
and owing no thing to the work of Darwin. ~ W.R. Thompson
Through use and abuse of hidden postulates, of bold, often ill-founded
extrapolations, a pseudoscience has been created. It is taking root in the
very heart of biology and is leading astray many biochemists and biologists,
who sincerely believe that the accuracy of fundamental concepts has been
demonstrated, which is not the case. ~ Pierre Grasse
The opposite truth has been affirmed by innumerable cases of measurable
evolution at this minimal scale-but, to be visible at all over so short a
span, evolution must be far too rapid (and transient) to serve as the basis
for major transformations in geological time. Hence, the "paradox of the
visibly irrelevant"-or, if you can see it at all, it's too fast to matter in
the long run. ~ Stephen Jay Gould
The central question of the Chicago conference was whether the mechanisms
underlying microevolution can be extrapolated to explain the phenomena of
macroevolution. At the risk of doing violence to the positions of some of
the people at the meeting, the answer can be given as a clear No. ~ Roger
Lewin
Molecular biology has shown that even the simplest of all living systems on
the earth today, bacterial cells, are exceedingly complex objects. Although
the tiniest bacterial cells are incredibly small, weighing less than 10-12
gms, each is in effect a veritable micro-miniaturized factory containing
thousands of exquisitely designed pieces of intricate molecular machinery,
made up altogether of one hundred thousand million atoms, far more
complicated than any machine built by man and absolutely without parallel in
the nonliving world. ~ Michael Denton
On experimental grounds, I have shown that there are no known random
mutations that have added any genetic information to the organism. I go
through a list of the best examples of mutations offered by evolutionists
and show that each of them loses genetic information rather than gain s it.
One of the examples that where information is lost is the one often trotted
out by evolutionists nowadays in an attempt to convince the public of the
truth of evolution. That is the evolution of bacterial resistance to
antibiotics. ~ Lee Spetner See also: virus
It is the great irony of modern evolutionary genetics that the spirit of
explanation has moved more and more towards optimal adaptation, while the
technical developments of population genetics of the past 30 years hav e been
increasingly to show the efficacy of non adaptive forces in evolution. ~
Richard Lewontin
By irreducibly complex I mean a single system composed of several
well-matched, interacting parts that contribute to the basic function,
wher ein the removal of any one of the parts causes the system to effectively
cease functioning. An irreducibly complex system cannot be produced directly
(that is, by continuously improving the initial function, which continues to
work by the same me chanism) by slight, successive modification of a
precursor, system, because any precursors to an irreducibly complex system
that is missing a part is by definition nonfunctional. ~ Michael Behe
In the abstract, it might be tempting to imagine t hat irreducible complexity
simply requires multiple simultaneous mutations -- that evolution might be
far chancier than we thought, but still possible. Such an appeal to brute
luck can never be refuted... Luck is metaphysical speculation; scientific
explanations invoke causes. ~ Michael Behe
The information necessary to specify the design of all the species of
organisms which have ever existed on the planet, a number according to G. G.
Simpson of approximately one thousand million, could be held in a teaspoon
and there would still be room left for all the information in every book
ever written. ~ Michael Denton
They conceived the evidence that would carry the vital intellectual
argument, but at its core lay flawed sci ence, dubious methodology and
wishful thinking. Clustered around the peppered moth is a swarm of human
ambition, and self-delusions shared among some of the most renowned
evolutionary biologists of our era. ~ Judith Hooper See also: 1 2
I t was a failing of Haeckel as a would-be scientist that his hand as an
artist altered what he saw with what should have been the eye of a more
accurate beholder. He was more than once, often justifiably, accused of
scientific falsification, by Wi lhelm His and by many others. For only two
examples, in"Anthropogenie" he drew the developing brain of a fish as
curved, because that of reptiles, birds, and mammals is bent. But the
vesicles of a fish brain always form in a straight line. He drew the
embryonic membranes of man as including a small sac-like allantois, an
embryonic organ characteristic of and larger in reptiles, birds, and some
nonhuman mammals. The human embryo has no sac-like allantois at all. Only
its narrow solid stock remains to conduct the umbilical blood vessels
between embryo and placenta. Examples could be multiplied significantly. ~
Jane Oppenheimer See also: 1 2 3 4
All K-Ar and Ar-Ar "dates" of volcanic rocks are questionable, as well as
fossil "dates" calibrated by them. ~ Andrew Snelling See also: 1 2
Beginning in 1980 with the dinosaur/asteroid controversy, it has more
recently become popular for geologists to consider not just local, but
global catastrophes to account f or the geologic evidence they see. One can
be assured that for a community to have made such an incredible shift -- in
spite of the strong association which exists between catastrophism and
creationism -- there must be profound evidence for catas trophe throughout
the geologic column. ~ Kurt Wise
To press the matter further, if there were a basic principle of matter which
somehow drove organic systems toward life, its existence should easily be
demonstrable in the laboratory. One could, for instance, take a swimming
bath to represent the primordial soup. Fill it with any chemicals of a non-
biological nature you please. Pump any gases over it, or through it, you
please, and shine any kind of radiation on it that takes your fancy. Let the
experiment proceed for a year and see how many of those 2,000 enzymes have
appeared in the bath. I will give the answer, and so save the time and
trouble and expense of actually doing the experiment. You would find nothing
at all, except possibly for a tarry sludge composed of amino acids and other
simple organic chemicals. How can I be so confident of this statement? Well,
if it were otherwise, the experiment would long since have been done and
would be well known and famous throughout the world. The cost of it would be
trivial compared to the cost of landing a man on the Moon... In short there
is not a shred of objective evidence to support the hypothesis that life
began in an organic soup here on Earth. ~ Fred Hoyle
If you wanted to produce carbon and oxygen in roughly equal quantities by
stellar nucleosynthesis, these are the two levels you would have to fix, and
your fixing would have to be just about where these levels are actually
found to be... A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a
superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as with chemistry and
biology, and that there are no blind forces worth speaking about in nature.
The numbers one calculates from t he facts seem to me so overwhelming as to
put this conclusion almost beyond question. ~ Fred Hoyle
In fact the a priori reasoning is so entirely satisfactory to me that if the
facts won't fit in, why so much the worse for the facts is my feeli ng. ~
Erasmus Darwin
Complete objectivity in science is an illusion. Because so much of one's
analysis depends upon metaphysical assumptions, it should be acknowledged by
this writer, and by all readers, that the answer one gives to a quest ion
depends to a great extent on the metaphysical position one has previously
adopted. ~ Dean Overman
Darwinists believe that the mutation-selection mechanism accomplishes
wonders of creativity not because the wonders can be demonstrated, bu t
because they cannot think of a more plausible explanation for the existence
of wonders that does not involve an unacceptable creator, i.e., a being or
force outside the world of nature. ~ Phillip Johnson
It struck me that I had been worki ng on this stuff for twenty years and
there was not one thing I knew about it. That's quite a shock to learn that
one can be so misled so long...so for the last few weeks I've tried putting
a simple question to various people and groups of people. Question is: Can
you tell me anything you know about evolution, any one thing that is true? I
tried that question on the geology staff at the Field Museum of Natural
History and the only answer I got was silence. I tried it on the members of
the Evolutionary Morphology Seminar in the University of Chicago, a very
prestigious body of evolutionists, and all I got there was silence for a
long time and eventually one person said, 'I do know one thing -- it ought
not to be taught in high school'. ~ Colin Pattersonu
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| User: "Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian" |
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| Title: dorky's same old ***** |
23 Nov 2005 05:49:34 AM |
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Richard Dawkins wrote:
What is the evidence?
Tsk tsk dorky.
It's almost a pity that those dinosaurs went extinct some 65 million years
before... otherwise if one said "the first time I saw this blatant lie
debunked I fell off my dinosaur laughing", others may believe it.
Aaaaah, but then we all know that you are too chicken to actually try and
present an argument all of your own. You are perfectly aware of your
desperate situation - out in the cold world of merciless truth where
nothing protects your precious little fairy tales, with nothing to show to
prove that it might perhaps be true. And you are too much of a fucking
coward to even admit that.
Or aren't you? I dare you to reply, chicken. I dare you to present to us
anything, any kind of claim, that you didn't just copy'n'paste from some
boneyard of refuted cretinist/IDiot lies.
Come on, you super cool Destroyer Of Atheism(TM), show us your powers. Or
fail to do so and be mocked accordingly.
--
"To his friend a man a friend shall prove,
And gifts with gifts requite;
But men shall mocking with mockery answer,
And fraud with falsehood meet."
(The Poetic Edda)
Must have been written with fundies in mind...
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: dorky's same old ***** |
24 Nov 2005 10:47:04 AM |
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"Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian" wrote:
Richard Dawkins wrote:
What is the evidence?
Tsk tsk dorky.
It's almost a pity that those dinosaurs went extinct some 65 million years
before... otherwise if one said "the first time I saw this blatant lie
debunked I fell off my dinosaur laughing", others may believe it.
Aaaaah, but then we all know that you are too chicken to actually try and
present an argument all of your own. You are perfectly aware of your
desperate situation - out in the cold world of merciless truth where
nothing protects your precious little fairy tales, with nothing to show to
prove that it might perhaps be true. And you are too much of a fucking
coward to even admit that.
Or aren't you? I dare you to reply, chicken. I dare you to present to us
anything, any kind of claim, that you didn't just copy'n'paste from some
boneyard of refuted cretinist/IDiot lies.
Come on, you super cool Destroyer Of Atheism(TM), show us your powers. Or
fail to do so and be mocked accordingly.
I think this is going to elicit some nasty language !!!!
--
"To his friend a man a friend shall prove,
And gifts with gifts requite;
But men shall mocking with mockery answer,
And fraud with falsehood meet."
(The Poetic Edda)
Must have been written with fundies in mind...
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: An Atheist Fairy tale |
26 Nov 2005 06:01:46 PM |
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That's to long a post to read all of it.
Appearantly Richard Dawkins is not aware how fossils are made.
Most life isn't fossilizied,
Many living being can hardly be fosselized because they have no
sceleton.
It's like the man claiming to be a billionaire shows you two reporst
from the bank
One stating that an account by his name had a billion dollar on Juli 14
1974
and one showing the same account having a billion dollar on August 2005
Than Richard doesn't believe him, because he can't shouw the sheets he
must have received in between:)
Richard rather believes in the man being poor,
although there is absolutely no proof of that:)
Think about it
Peter van Velzen
November 2005
Amstelveen
The Netherlands
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: An Atheist Fairy tale |
23 Nov 2005 01:01:28 PM |
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What's so funny about peace, love and "Richard Dawkins"
<Dawkins@Hell.com> posting the following on Tue, 22 Nov 2005 22:29:12
-0700 iin alt.atheism?
What is the evidence?
A Parable:
Suppose a man walks up to you and says "I'm a billionaire."
You say "Prove it."
He says "ok", and he points across the street at a bank. "My money is in
that bank there." (The bank is closed.)
You say "What does that prove?"
He says "Everyone knows banks have money in them"
You say "I know there is money in the bank, but why should I believe that
it's YOUR money?"
"Because it's GREEN" he says.
"What else can you show me?"
He reaches in his pocket and pulls out a penny. "See -- I'm a billionaire."
You're still skeptical. 'What does that prove?', you ask.
"I'M A BILLIONAIRE" he states loudly (obviously annoyed that you would
question him). He reaches in another pocket and pulls out another penny, "Do
you believe me now?"
Except of course the man and I could walk into the bank, go up to a
teller, and verify his account balances. There are ways of
determining actual worth, just ask any divorce lawyer.
The number of intermediate and transitional links between all living and
extinct species, must have been inconceivably great.~ Charles Darwin
Who wrote that in the mid-19th century. We've done a little more work
on biology since then.
But just in proportion as this process of extermination has acted on an
enormous scale, so must the number of intermediate varieties, which have
formerly existed, be truly enormous. Why then is not every geological
formation and every stratum full of such intermediate links? Geology
assuredly does not reveal any such finely graduated organic chain; and this,
perhaps, is the most obvious and serious objection which can be urged
against the theory. The explanation lies, as I believe, in the extreme
imperfection of the geological record. ~ Charles Darwin
Again, Darwin was writing over a century and a half ago. Little
things like plate tectonics were unknown to him.
He who rejects these views on the nature of the geologic record, will
rightly reject my whole theory. ~ Charles Darwin
Darwin invoked his standard argument to resolve this uncomfortable problem:
the fossil record is so imperfect that we do not have evidence for most
events of life's history. But even Darwin acknowledged that his favorite
ploy was wearing a bit thin in this case. His argument could easily account
for a missing stage in a single linage, but could the agencies of
imperfection really obliterate absolutely all evidence for positively every
creature during most of life's history? Darwin admitted: "The case as
present must remain inexplicable; and may be truly urged as a valid argument
against the views here entertained." (1859, p.308)
And, as I've now pointed oput three times, we've done more work since
the Beagle made port.
Darwin has been vindicated by a rich Precambrian record, all discovered in
the past thirty years. Yet the peculiar character of this evidence has not
matched Darwin's prediction of a continuous rise in complexity toward
Cambrian life, and the problem of the Cambrian explosion has remained as
stubborn as ever -- if not more so, since our confusion now rests on
knowledge, rather than ignorance about the nature of Precambrian life. ~
Stephen Jay Gould
Gosh, so a 19th Century scientist turned out to be wrong in one or two
details.
Science admits its mistakes all the time. We find new evidence, and
learn where we were mistaken.
Nobody claims that Darwin is the be all of evolutionary biology. That
is as silly as creditied the Stealth bomber to the Wright Brothers.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
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| User: "Richard Dawkins" |
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| Title: The funny thing is that 99% of you whack jobs in here aren't even atheists. |
23 Nov 2005 05:33:00 AM |
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You're God-Haters.
Yea you....you know who I'm talking to.
Aint talking practical atheism here.
I'm talking militant God-Hating atheists.
The other 99%
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| User: "kathryn" |
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| Title: Re: The funny thing is that 99% of you whack jobs in here aren't even atheists. |
23 Nov 2005 06:38:59 PM |
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"Richard Dawkins" <Dawkins@Hell.com> wrote in message
news:_9Tgf.51$OK.1661@news.uswest.net...
You're God-Haters.
Yea you....you know who I'm talking to.
Aint talking practical atheism here.
I'm talking militant God-Hating atheists.
The other 99%
Says the troll....
go guard your bridge
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: The funny thing is that 99% of you whack jobs in here aren't even atheists. |
23 Nov 2005 09:07:30 AM |
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"Richard Dawkins" <Dawkins@Hell.com> wrote in message
news:_9Tgf.51$OK.1661@news.uswest.net...
You're God-Haters.
Yea you....you know who I'm talking to.
Aint talking practical atheism here.
I'm talking militant God-Hating atheists.
The other 99%
We don't hate your god-character.
We hate you.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
http://www.ashenempires.com
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: The funny thing is that 99% of you whack jobs in here aren't even atheists. |
23 Nov 2005 02:45:40 PM |
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In <QvCdnSzYKKPQrBneRVn-sw@io.com>, "Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote:
"Richard Dawkins" <Dawkins@Hell.com> wrote in message
news:_9Tgf.51$OK.1661@news.uswest.net...
You're God-Haters.
Yea you....you know who I'm talking to. Aint talking practical atheism
here.
I'm talking militant God-Hating atheists. The other 99%
We don't hate your god-character.
We hate you.
But he *is his god. So, in a way, he's right...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
Forgotten Already
http://makeashorterlink.com/?H1233272C
Feds are treating Louisiana like enemy
"...it may be that they may have written us off."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?O21E51C1C
http://www.nola.com
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: The funny thing is that 99% of you whack jobs in here aren't evenatheists. |
24 Nov 2005 10:43:03 AM |
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"Mark K. Bilbo" wrote:
In <QvCdnSzYKKPQrBneRVn-sw@io.com>, "Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote:
"Richard Dawkins" <Dawkins@Hell.com> wrote in message
news:_9Tgf.51$OK.1661@news.uswest.net...
You're God-Haters.
Yea you....you know who I'm talking to. Aint talking practical atheism
here.
I'm talking militant God-Hating atheists. The other 99%
We don't hate your god-character.
We hate you.
But he *is his god. So, in a way, he's right...
...could be; another name for religions and gods is 'power'
We humans love it
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
Forgotten Already
http://makeashorterlink.com/?H1233272C
Feds are treating Louisiana like enemy
"...it may be that they may have written us off."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?O21E51C1C
http://www.nola.com
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: The funny thing is that 99% of you whack jobs in here aren't even atheists. |
23 Nov 2005 06:08:44 PM |
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On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 03:07:30 -0600, "Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com>
wrote:
"Richard Dawkins" <Dawkins@Hell.com> wrote in message
news:_9Tgf.51$OK.1661@news.uswest.net...
You're God-Haters.
Yea you....you know who I'm talking to.
Aint talking practical atheism here.
I'm talking militant God-Hating atheists.
The other 99%
We don't hate your god-character.
We hate you.
One has to remember that he actually believes in his god, so he must
be terrified. Just think if, just once, he thought "I hate god". It
would be kind of like chanting "Down with Big Brother, so he makes
believe that it is atheists who have such thoughts not him - OH NO
GOD! NOT ME! THEM! TAKE THEM!
Thomas P.
"Life must be lived forwards but understood backwards"
(Kierkegaard)
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: The funny thing is that 99% of you whack jobs in here aren't even atheists. |
23 Nov 2005 07:47:06 PM |
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"thomas p" <tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote in message
news:ao49o158olbfpj530994enccfal1re8tb5@4ax.com...
On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 03:07:30 -0600, "Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com>
wrote:
"Richard Dawkins" <Dawkins@Hell.com> wrote in message
news:_9Tgf.51$OK.1661@news.uswest.net...
You're God-Haters.
Yea you....you know who I'm talking to.
Aint talking practical atheism here.
I'm talking militant God-Hating atheists.
The other 99%
We don't hate your god-character.
We hate you.
One has to remember that he actually believes in his god, so he must
be terrified. Just think if, just once, he thought "I hate god". It
would be kind of like chanting "Down with Big Brother, so he makes
believe that it is atheists who have such thoughts not him - OH NO
GOD! NOT ME! THEM! TAKE THEM!
Just like the Christians can't admit to themselves that they're GLAD Jesus
was crucified, because without his tortured death, they wouldn't have their
precious salvation.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
http://www.ashenempires.com
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: The funny thing is that 99% of you whack jobs in here aren't even atheists. |
24 Nov 2005 08:01:05 AM |
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On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 13:47:06 -0600, "Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com>
wrote:
"thomas p" <tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote in message
news:ao49o158olbfpj530994enccfal1re8tb5@4ax.com...
On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 03:07:30 -0600, "Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com>
wrote:
"Richard Dawkins" <Dawkins@Hell.com> wrote in message
news:_9Tgf.51$OK.1661@news.uswest.net...
You're God-Haters.
Yea you....you know who I'm talking to.
Aint talking practical atheism here.
I'm talking militant God-Hating atheists.
The other 99%
We don't hate your god-character.
We hate you.
One has to remember that he actually believes in his god, so he must
be terrified. Just think if, just once, he thought "I hate god". It
would be kind of like chanting "Down with Big Brother, so he makes
believe that it is atheists who have such thoughts not him - OH NO
GOD! NOT ME! THEM! TAKE THEM!
Just like the Christians can't admit to themselves that they're GLAD Jesus
was crucified, because without his tortured death, they wouldn't have their
precious salvation.
And Orwell thought it was modern totalitarianism that invented
doublethink. The church was the teacher, and it is still the master.
Thomas P.
"Life must be lived forwards but understood backwards"
(Kierkegaard)
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| User: "Jesus H Christ" |
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| Title: Re: The funny thing is that 99% of you whack jobs in here aren't even atheists. |
27 Nov 2005 03:51:34 PM |
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"Richard Dawkins" <Dawkins@Hell.com> wrote in news:_9Tgf.51$OK.1661
@news.uswest.net:
You're God-Haters.
No, most of us just hate YOU, you deranged ranting rude little fundie *****.
<yawn>
Wash my feet, fundie.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: The funny thing is that 99% of you whack jobs in here aren't even atheists. |
30 Nov 2005 05:28:02 PM |
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O, lord!
your feet are dirty?
That's what you get for walking on water.
Didn't they tell you about pollution?
Better think about it next time
Peter van Velzen
November 2005
Amstelveen
The Netherlands
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| User: "Jesus H Christ" |
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| Title: Re: The funny thing is that 99% of you whack jobs in here aren't even atheists. |
02 Dec 2005 12:27:05 PM |
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"pbamvv@worldonline.nl" <pbamvv@worldonline.nl> wrote in
news:1133371682.062321.102890@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
O, lord!
your feet are dirty?
That's what you get for walking on water.
Didn't they tell you about pollution?
I die and come back almost 2000 odd years later and what do I find?
Ozone hole. Deforestation. Global Warming. Pollution. Wars.
Sheesh. So much for the kingdom of god on earth.
Better think about it next time
Next time I'm coming back from the dead I'm wearing shoes.
And a suit. Robes itch.
jesus
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: The funny thing is that 99% of you whack jobs in here aren't even atheists. |
02 Dec 2005 01:06:04 PM |
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On 2 Dec 2005 22:27:05 +1000, Jesus H Christ
<jhc@catholic.religion.com> wrote:
"pbamvv@worldonline.nl" <pbamvv@worldonline.nl> wrote in
news:1133371682.062321.102890@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
O, lord!
your feet are dirty?
That's what you get for walking on water.
Didn't they tell you about pollution?
I die and come back almost 2000 odd years later and what do I find?
Ozone hole. Deforestation. Global Warming. Pollution. Wars.
Sheesh. So much for the kingdom of god on earth.
Better think about it next time
Next time I'm coming back from the dead I'm wearing shoes.
And a suit. Robes itch.
And while you're at it, JC, could you please do something about these
***** fundies?
jesus
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| User: "Jesus H Christ" |
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| Title: Re: The funny thing is that 99% of you whack jobs in here aren't even atheists. |
04 Dec 2005 05:55:52 PM |
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John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote in
news:5kh0p1dvf218tgvcrni431sg94orf4q5oq@4ax.com:
And while you're at it, JC, could you please do something about these
***** fundies?
Grrr.
Workin' on it. Had a word in Benedict's ear and he's agreed - no
fundies in the Catholic church.
Now I just gotta arrange to burn a Bush..
jesus
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: The funny thing is that 99% of you whack jobs in here aren't even atheists. |
02 Dec 2005 04:56:56 PM |
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jesus:
I die and come back almost 2000 odd years later and what do I find?
Ozone hole. Deforestation. Global Warming. Pollution. Wars.
Peter:
You should have expected war. There was always war.
==================================================
Jesus:
Sheesh. So much for the kingdom of god on earth.
Peter
C'mon, that was your job wasn't it?
Go plant some trees than, and build some windmills.
======================================
Peter:
Better think about it next time
Jesus:
Next time I'm coming back from the dead I'm wearing shoes.
And a suit. Robes itch.
Peter:
So you're still coming back?
Will I be around to see it.
Never mind, you promised that last time:)
Peter van Velzen
December 2005
Amstelveen
The Netherlands
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| User: "Jesus H Christ" |
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| Title: Re: The funny thing is that 99% of you whack jobs in here aren't even atheists. |
04 Dec 2005 06:02:20 PM |
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"pbamvv@worldonline.nl" <pbamvv@worldonline.nl> wrote in
news:1133542616.838153.294790@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
jesus:
I die and come back almost 2000 odd years later and what do I find?
Ozone hole. Deforestation. Global Warming. Pollution. Wars.
Peter:
You should have expected war. There was always war.
Didn't you GET the damn memo?
You were *supposed* to have figured out how to live together peacefully
AFTER I left but BEFORE got back!
Jesus:
Sheesh. So much for the kingdom of god on earth.
Peter
C'mon, that was your job wasn't it?
Go plant some trees than, and build some windmills.
Well, I'm not so sure about building the windmills.
Noise pollution, Bird Hazards and all that.
How about some nice churches?
Peter:
Better think about it next time
Huh. I'm telling god she needs to do-over.
Jesus:
Next time I'm coming back from the dead I'm wearing shoes.
And a suit. Robes itch.
Peter:
So you're still coming back?
Well, duh.
AT&T don't let out to spirits ya know.
Will I be around to see it.
Not unless I need to oversee god striking a catastrophe in the Netherlands.
Got any dykes you need busting?
Never mind, you promised that last time:)
Sorry about that. Got a gig swapped with the great prophet zarquon -
took forever to get out of the restaurant.
Peter van Velzen
December 2005
Amstelveen
The Netherlands
jesus!
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