| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Dr. DuFonet" |
| Date: |
17 Nov 2003 08:03:09 PM |
| Object: |
An atheist goes to church |
I went to a church last Sunday, and ended up not explaining to anyone that I
was an atheist and making nice with the choir director and his wife, and the
minister. The choir director invited me to choir practice. I interviewed the
minister who welcomed me as a new attendee. I learned that he was an
ex-engineer who had recently graduated from seminary. The sermon was mainly
about Jessica Lynch. The minister mentioned the part about the Iraqi woman
who sang a Persian lullaby to Lynch over and over to comfort her. Of course
he gave the credit to the Christian God for this. If I had known him better,
it might have occurred to me to bring up this subject in our converstion.
.
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| User: "Peter Maurice Cram" |
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| Title: Re: An atheist goes to church |
18 Nov 2003 01:57:25 AM |
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"Dr. DuFonet" <accordiondoc@mindsproing.cop> wrote in message
news:x5fub.4212$sb4.2430@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
I went to a church last Sunday, and ended up not explaining to anyone that
I
was an atheist and making nice with the choir director and his wife, and
the
minister. The choir director invited me to choir practice. I interviewed
the
minister who welcomed me as a new attendee. I learned that he was an
ex-engineer who had recently graduated from seminary. The sermon was
mainly
about Jessica Lynch. The minister mentioned the part about the Iraqi woman
who sang a Persian lullaby to Lynch over and over to comfort her. Of
course
he gave the credit to the Christian God for this. If I had known him
better,
it might have occurred to me to bring up this subject in our converstion.
Why would you want to attend somebody's church? Wouldn't that be a waste of
your time? Were you (like I have been) basically dragged there? Weren't you
hounded by the bible thumpers, when they found out that that you were an
atheist, (like I was)? If not, you will be!
Really, what's the point of listening to religious people if you don't
believe a word their saying?
.
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| User: "Dr. DuFonet" |
|
| Title: Re: An atheist goes to church |
19 Nov 2003 05:14:08 AM |
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"Peter Maurice Cram" <pcram@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:Fhkub.422905$pl3.415940@pd7tw3no...
"Dr. DuFonet" <accordiondoc@mindsproing.cop> wrote in message
news:x5fub.4212$sb4.2430@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
I went to a church last Sunday, and ended up not explaining to anyone
that
I
was an atheist and making nice with the choir director and his wife, and
the
minister. The choir director invited me to choir practice. I interviewed
the
minister who welcomed me as a new attendee. I learned that he was an
ex-engineer who had recently graduated from seminary. The sermon was
mainly
about Jessica Lynch. The minister mentioned the part about the Iraqi
woman
who sang a Persian lullaby to Lynch over and over to comfort her. Of
course
he gave the credit to the Christian God for this. If I had known him
better,
it might have occurred to me to bring up this subject in our
converstion.
Why would you want to attend somebody's church? Wouldn't that be a waste
of
your time?
Perhaps; remains to be seen.
Were you (like I have been) basically dragged there? Weren't you
hounded by the bible thumpers, when they found out that that you were an
atheist, (like I was)?
I chose to go jsut to see if I could make a difference. If I get hounded, I
can stay away.
If not, you will be!
Really, what's the point of listening to religious people if you don't
believe a word their saying?
That's assuming that truth is an objective affair like black vs. white. Of
course on some level of consciousness everyone has a version of the truth
that sort of corresponds to reality.
.
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| User: "Peacenik" |
|
| Title: Re: An atheist goes to church |
19 Nov 2003 02:01:42 PM |
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"Peter Maurice Cram" <pcram@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:Fhkub.422905$pl3.415940@pd7tw3no...
"Dr. DuFonet" <accordiondoc@mindsproing.cop> wrote in message
news:x5fub.4212$sb4.2430@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
I went to a church last Sunday, and ended up not explaining to anyone
that
I
was an atheist and making nice with the choir director and his wife, and
the
minister. The choir director invited me to choir practice. I interviewed
the
minister who welcomed me as a new attendee. I learned that he was an
ex-engineer who had recently graduated from seminary. The sermon was
mainly
about Jessica Lynch. The minister mentioned the part about the Iraqi
woman
who sang a Persian lullaby to Lynch over and over to comfort her. Of
course
he gave the credit to the Christian God for this. If I had known him
better,
it might have occurred to me to bring up this subject in our
converstion.
Why would you want to attend somebody's church? Wouldn't that be a waste
of
your time? Were you (like I have been) basically dragged there? Weren't
you
hounded by the bible thumpers, when they found out that that you were an
atheist, (like I was)? If not, you will be!
Really, what's the point of listening to religious people if you don't
believe a word their saying?
I'm not a Buddhist, but I enjoy visiting Buddhist temples and have observed
different types of Buddhist ceremonies.
I'm not a Hare Krishna, but I once went to a Hare Krishna temple and chatted
with the people there for a couple hours.
When in the Philippines I attended a Catholic Mass even though I'm not
Catholic.
I guess it's like experiencing another culture. You learn something, you
witness rituals, you connect with people very different from yourself.
--
Peacenik
.
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| User: "Martin Thomas" |
|
| Title: Re: An atheist goes to church |
25 Nov 2003 05:44:33 AM |
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On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:01:42 GMT, "Peacenik"
<criskity999@com999cast.removeallnines.net> wrote:
"Peter Maurice Cram" <pcram@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:Fhkub.422905$pl3.415940@pd7tw3no...
"Dr. DuFonet" <accordiondoc@mindsproing.cop> wrote in message
news:x5fub.4212$sb4.2430@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
I went to a church last Sunday, and ended up not explaining to anyone
that
I
was an atheist and making nice with the choir director and his wife, and
the
minister. The choir director invited me to choir practice. I interviewed
the
minister who welcomed me as a new attendee. I learned that he was an
ex-engineer who had recently graduated from seminary. The sermon was
mainly
about Jessica Lynch. The minister mentioned the part about the Iraqi
woman
who sang a Persian lullaby to Lynch over and over to comfort her. Of
course
he gave the credit to the Christian God for this. If I had known him
better,
it might have occurred to me to bring up this subject in our
converstion.
Why would you want to attend somebody's church? Wouldn't that be a waste
of
your time? Were you (like I have been) basically dragged there? Weren't
you
hounded by the bible thumpers, when they found out that that you were an
atheist, (like I was)? If not, you will be!
Really, what's the point of listening to religious people if you don't
believe a word their saying?
I'm not a Buddhist, but I enjoy visiting Buddhist temples and have observed
different types of Buddhist ceremonies.
I'm not a Hare Krishna, but I once went to a Hare Krishna temple and chatted
with the people there for a couple hours.
When in the Philippines I attended a Catholic Mass even though I'm not
Catholic.
I guess it's like experiencing another culture. You learn something, you
witness rituals, you connect with people very different from yourself.
I can relate to that.
I got invited to a Baptist church a while ago.
I like most of the people there, I enjoyed the singing and
dancing and at the end they laid on a great feast!
Of course, there were a few thing I heard said that I do not
agree with - but nothing terribly outrageous, perhaps the
baptists in the UK are naturally more liberal than those in the
US? I had not gone there for any argument, so I did not pay a lot
of attention to that.
-
Martin Thomas
mart666t@netscape.NO.HAWKERS.net
.
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| User: "*nemo*" |
|
| Title: Re: An atheist goes to church |
18 Nov 2003 05:00:07 AM |
|
|
In article <Fhkub.422905$pl3.415940@pd7tw3no>,
"Peter Maurice Cram" <pcram@shaw.ca> wrote:
"Dr. DuFonet" <accordiondoc@mindsproing.cop> wrote in message
news:x5fub.4212$sb4.2430@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
I went to a church last Sunday, and ended up not explaining to anyone that
I
was an atheist and making nice with the choir director and his wife, and
the
minister. The choir director invited me to choir practice. I interviewed
the
minister who welcomed me as a new attendee. I learned that he was an
ex-engineer who had recently graduated from seminary. The sermon was
mainly
about Jessica Lynch. The minister mentioned the part about the Iraqi woman
who sang a Persian lullaby to Lynch over and over to comfort her. Of
course
he gave the credit to the Christian God for this. If I had known him
better,
it might have occurred to me to bring up this subject in our converstion.
Why would you want to attend somebody's church? Wouldn't that be a waste of
your time? Were you (like I have been) basically dragged there? Weren't you
hounded by the bible thumpers, when they found out that that you were an
atheist, (like I was)? If not, you will be!
Really, what's the point of listening to religious people if you don't
believe a word their saying?
Well, there's the rub, isn't it? I don't believe their myths, but I do
agree with a lot of what is said, from a humanist perspective. There are
disagreements, but we do agree on a lot of things.
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
.
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| User: "Mekkala" |
|
| Title: Re: An atheist goes to church |
18 Nov 2003 11:03:39 AM |
|
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On 18 Nov 2003, *nemo* <nemo0037@yahoo.dieSPAM.com> screwed up his face,
groaned, pushed hard, and farted out the following message in
news:nemo0037-8F4535.05594818112003@news03.east.earthlink.net:
In article <Fhkub.422905$pl3.415940@pd7tw3no>,
"Peter Maurice Cram" <pcram@shaw.ca> wrote:
"Dr. DuFonet" <accordiondoc@mindsproing.cop> wrote in message
news:x5fub.4212$sb4.2430@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
I went to a church last Sunday, and ended up not explaining to
anyone that
I
was an atheist and making nice with the choir director and his
wife, and
the
minister. The choir director invited me to choir practice. I
interviewed
the
minister who welcomed me as a new attendee. I learned that he was
an ex-engineer who had recently graduated from seminary. The sermon
was
mainly
about Jessica Lynch. The minister mentioned the part about the
Iraqi woman who sang a Persian lullaby to Lynch over and over to
comfort her. Of
course
he gave the credit to the Christian God for this. If I had known
him
better,
it might have occurred to me to bring up this subject in our
converstion.
Why would you want to attend somebody's church? Wouldn't that be a
waste of your time? Were you (like I have been) basically dragged
there? Weren't you hounded by the bible thumpers, when they found out
that that you were an atheist, (like I was)? If not, you will be!
Really, what's the point of listening to religious people if you
don't
believe a word their saying?
Well, there's the rub, isn't it? I don't believe their myths, but I do
agree with a lot of what is said, from a humanist perspective. There
are disagreements, but we do agree on a lot of things.
Except, the things they say that I agree with are things just about
every decent person says, Christian or not. The things that are unique
to Christianity and similar conservative religions, though...
So, really, I don't see the benefit.
--
Mekkala, Atheist #2148
"When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly
realized I was talking to myself!"
--Peter O'Toole.
.
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| User: "Erica" |
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| Title: Re: An atheist goes to church |
18 Nov 2003 12:55:07 PM |
|
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In article <Xns943770850E76AMekkala@199.45.49.11>,
Mekkala <joremovedathiskimtoreply@attbi.com> wrote:
Except, the things they say that I agree with are things just about
every decent person says, Christian or not. The things that are unique
to Christianity and similar conservative religions, though...
So, really, I don't see the benefit.
I've typed and erased a reply three times now. I have no idea how to
word this, so bare with me. I guess, from my point of view, it is not a
conservative religion, or at least not inherently so. I sometimes think
that many of the conservatives in Christianity are like the Pharasees.
Outwardly correct, but inwardly corrupt, and heartless to boot. Not all,
but many.
I'm sure that's partly my liberal bias talking. Objectivity is my ideal,
but a tough road to walk nevertheless.
What are the things that you find to be unique to Christianity and other
conservative religions, if you don't mind me asking? I guess I'm
wondering if what you see as unique to Christianity is universal
throughout all of Christianity, as opposed to being unique to only some
of the denominations.
--
My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.
.
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| User: "*nemo*" |
|
| Title: Re: An atheist goes to church |
18 Nov 2003 04:39:58 PM |
|
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In article
<scribe53151nospam-B92BF4.12550718112003@newshost1.news.tds.net>,
Erica <scribe53151nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
In article <Xns943770850E76AMekkala@199.45.49.11>,
Mekkala <joremovedathiskimtoreply@attbi.com> wrote:
Except, the things they say that I agree with are things just about
every decent person says, Christian or not. The things that are unique
to Christianity and similar conservative religions, though...
So, really, I don't see the benefit.
I've typed and erased a reply three times now. I have no idea how to
word this, so bare with me. I guess, from my point of view, it is not a
conservative religion, or at least not inherently so.
My view is that religions -- pretty much all that I've learned much
about -- are sort of like inkblot tests. They bring out the personality
traits hidden in folks, whether liberal or conservative.
I sometimes think
that many of the conservatives in Christianity are like the Pharasees.
Outwardly correct, but inwardly corrupt, and heartless to boot. Not all,
but many.
It certainly seems that way a lot of the time.
<snip>
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
.
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| User: "Mekkala" |
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| Title: Re: An atheist goes to church |
18 Nov 2003 01:01:52 PM |
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On 18 Nov 2003, Erica <scribe53151nospam@yahoo.com> screwed up his face,
groaned, pushed hard, and farted out the following message in
news:scribe53151nospam-B92BF4.12550718112003@newshost1.news.tds.net:
In article <Xns943770850E76AMekkala@199.45.49.11>,
Mekkala <joremovedathiskimtoreply@attbi.com> wrote:
Except, the things they say that I agree with are things just about
every decent person says, Christian or not. The things that are
unique
to Christianity and similar conservative religions, though...
So, really, I don't see the benefit.
I've typed and erased a reply three times now. I have no idea how to
word this, so bare with me. I guess, from my point of view, it is not
a
conservative religion, or at least not inherently so. I sometimes
think
that many of the conservatives in Christianity are like the Pharasees.
Outwardly correct, but inwardly corrupt, and heartless to boot. Not
all,
but many.
I'm sure that's partly my liberal bias talking. Objectivity is my
ideal,
but a tough road to walk nevertheless.
What are the things that you find to be unique to Christianity and
other
conservative religions, if you don't mind me asking? I guess I'm
wondering if what you see as unique to Christianity is universal
throughout all of Christianity, as opposed to being unique to only
some
of the denominations.
I'm sorry, Erica. I realize what I said is probably offensive to you,
and I have to intention of doing so, since you seem to be one of the
liberal Christians with whom I have no problem. Nevertheless -- the
Bible says many things that, try as I might, I cannot manage to
reasonably interpret as anything but evil. The Christians I object to,
and the teachings "unique to Christianity" (and, I should probably add,
Judaism and sometimes Islam), are those that agree with those parts of
the Bible.
Again, though, I'm sorry. If I could see it any other way, I would, for
your sake and the sake of the Christians I've known who are truly
wonderful people. I just wish sometimes that leaders who believe like
you would be as outspoken as the ultraconservative leaders who are
trying to turn this nation into a Old Testament theocracy :)
--
Mekkala, Atheist #2148
"When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly
realized I was talking to myself!"
--Peter O'Toole.
.
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| User: "Erica" |
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| Title: Re: An atheist goes to church |
19 Nov 2003 01:32:42 PM |
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In article <Xns9437848EDD6E9Mekkala@199.45.49.11>,
Mekkala <joremovedathiskimtoreply@attbi.com> wrote:
On 18 Nov 2003, Erica <scribe53151nospam@yahoo.com> screwed up his face,
groaned, pushed hard, and farted out the following message in
news:scribe53151nospam-B92BF4.12550718112003@newshost1.news.tds.net:
In article <Xns943770850E76AMekkala@199.45.49.11>,
Mekkala <joremovedathiskimtoreply@attbi.com> wrote:
Except, the things they say that I agree with are things just about
every decent person says, Christian or not. The things that are
unique
to Christianity and similar conservative religions, though...
So, really, I don't see the benefit.
I've typed and erased a reply three times now. I have no idea how to
word this, so bare with me. I guess, from my point of view, it is not
a
conservative religion, or at least not inherently so. I sometimes
think
that many of the conservatives in Christianity are like the Pharasees.
Outwardly correct, but inwardly corrupt, and heartless to boot. Not
all,
but many.
I'm sure that's partly my liberal bias talking. Objectivity is my
ideal,
but a tough road to walk nevertheless.
What are the things that you find to be unique to Christianity and
other
conservative religions, if you don't mind me asking? I guess I'm
wondering if what you see as unique to Christianity is universal
throughout all of Christianity, as opposed to being unique to only
some
of the denominations.
I'm sorry, Erica. I realize what I said is probably offensive to you,
and I have to intention of doing so, since you seem to be one of the
liberal Christians with whom I have no problem. Nevertheless -- the
Bible says many things that, try as I might, I cannot manage to
reasonably interpret as anything but evil. The Christians I object to,
and the teachings "unique to Christianity" (and, I should probably add,
Judaism and sometimes Islam), are those that agree with those parts of
the Bible.
Again, though, I'm sorry. If I could see it any other way, I would, for
your sake and the sake of the Christians I've known who are truly
wonderful people. I just wish sometimes that leaders who believe like
you would be as outspoken as the ultraconservative leaders who are
trying to turn this nation into a Old Testament theocracy :)
No worries. If I was easily offended, I don't think I could handle
hanging out here, though some of the name calling does get to be a bit
much for me at times. But then that's always been a peeve. I'm no fan of
Sadaam Hussein, but calling him "Sadaam Insane" does him no real harm,
but does harm the speaker, weakening that person's position by making
him look less than mature or reasonable. On the other hand, you stated
your opinion in a rational and civil manner. So, as I say, no worries. :)
I actually find it beneficial being here most days. It has forced me to
read more of both the Bible and various commentaries and books I'd had
laying around. Apparently I thought I was going gain knowledge through
osmosis. So I think it's good to challenge one's beliefs and biases once
in a while.
I wish the religious left were stronger too. But right now the word
"liberal" has been given so many bad connotations, and to be a liberal
Christian is to be a heretic in the eyes of the Religious Right. And I
think we're having the same problem that the Dems are having at the
moment. Just not organized enough. Not to mention that we're just not as
bombastic -- we'd rather dialog, which no one seems to have patience for
anymore.
I should see if I can find stats on how many liberal religious there are
vs. liberal non-religious. I don't think there are very many of us, but
I might be surprised.
Erica
--
My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.
.
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| User: "Mekkala" |
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| Title: Re: An atheist goes to church |
19 Nov 2003 01:58:55 PM |
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On 19 Nov 2003, Erica <scribe53151nospam@yahoo.com> screwed up his face,
groaned, pushed hard, and farted out the following message in
news:scribe53151nospam-F0A74E.13324219112003@newshost1.news.tds.net:
<snip>
I wish the religious left were stronger too. But right now the word
"liberal" has been given so many bad connotations, and to be a liberal
Christian is to be a heretic in the eyes of the Religious Right. And I
think we're having the same problem that the Dems are having at the
moment. Just not organized enough. Not to mention that we're just not
as bombastic -- we'd rather dialog, which no one seems to have
patience for anymore.
Exactly. Dialogue is great for convincing intellectuals. Unfortunately
the masses, in general, are attracted to drama, not rationality. The
religious right today tends to be very loud and very dramatic, and that
catches the attention of the masses and wins many people's admiration,
deserved or not.
I should see if I can find stats on how many liberal religious there
are vs. liberal non-religious. I don't think there are very many of
us, but I might be surprised.
You might. You really might. I think there are plenty of liberal
Christians. Generally, the raving against Christianity I tend to
degenerate into occasionally ( ;) ) is prompted by the conservatives who
bawl at the top of their lungs and make me want to go out and cram their
self-righteous heads up their asses. (Like my boss -- a Southern
Baptist -- constantly raving about "niggers", "chinks", "damned
Mexicans", "perverted homosexuals", "godless atheists", etc.)
The real problem is that the voices of moderation in the Christian
community are reasonable and modulated, while the voices of extremism
are screaming at the top of their lungs -- so the "good guys" get
drowned out. While people like me can always promote the liberal
position, only Christians can build the image of Christianity. Until
liberal Christians start learning how to yell like conservatives, the
national image of Christianity is going to stay like it is.
What you need is an anti-Pat Robertson -- a liberal Christian who shouts
out for liberal government and speaks *as a Christian*.
--
Mekkala, Atheist #2148
"When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly
realized I was talking to myself!"
--Peter O'Toole.
.
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| User: "Mekkala" |
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| Title: Re: An atheist goes to church |
18 Nov 2003 01:11:50 PM |
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On 18 Nov 2003, Erica <scribe53151nospam@yahoo.com> screwed up his face,
groaned, pushed hard, and farted out the following message in
news:scribe53151nospam-B92BF4.12550718112003@newshost1.news.tds.net:
In article <Xns943770850E76AMekkala@199.45.49.11>,
Mekkala <joremovedathiskimtoreply@attbi.com> wrote:
Except, the things they say that I agree with are things just about
every decent person says, Christian or not. The things that are
unique
to Christianity and similar conservative religions, though...
So, really, I don't see the benefit.
I've typed and erased a reply three times now. I have no idea how to
word this, so bare with me. I guess, from my point of view, it is not
a
conservative religion, or at least not inherently so. I sometimes
think
that many of the conservatives in Christianity are like the Pharasees.
Outwardly correct, but inwardly corrupt, and heartless to boot. Not
all,
but many.
I'm sure that's partly my liberal bias talking. Objectivity is my
ideal,
but a tough road to walk nevertheless.
What are the things that you find to be unique to Christianity and
other
conservative religions, if you don't mind me asking? I guess I'm
wondering if what you see as unique to Christianity is universal
throughout all of Christianity, as opposed to being unique to only
some
of the denominations.
One other thing. When I speak of things "unique to Christianity" I'm
talking about things unique to the Christian Bible. Many attitudes held
by conservative Christians are not in the Bible, I realize that.
However, the Bible has things in it that I simply cannot accept as being
good things. Maybe if you look at the Bible as containing errors by the
human scribes that wrote it down, you can resolve those problems. I
don't know.
--
Mekkala, Atheist #2148
"When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly
realized I was talking to myself!"
--Peter O'Toole.
.
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| User: "Erica" |
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| Title: Re: An atheist goes to church |
19 Nov 2003 02:06:18 PM |
|
|
In article <Xns9437864035827Mekkala@199.45.49.11>,
Mekkala <joremovedathiskimtoreply@attbi.com> wrote:
On 18 Nov 2003, Erica <scribe53151nospam@yahoo.com> screwed up his face,
groaned, pushed hard, and farted out the following message in
news:scribe53151nospam-B92BF4.12550718112003@newshost1.news.tds.net:
In article <Xns943770850E76AMekkala@199.45.49.11>,
Mekkala <joremovedathiskimtoreply@attbi.com> wrote:
Except, the things they say that I agree with are things just about
every decent person says, Christian or not. The things that are
unique
to Christianity and similar conservative religions, though...
So, really, I don't see the benefit.
I've typed and erased a reply three times now. I have no idea how to
word this, so bare with me. I guess, from my point of view, it is not
a
conservative religion, or at least not inherently so. I sometimes
think
that many of the conservatives in Christianity are like the Pharasees.
Outwardly correct, but inwardly corrupt, and heartless to boot. Not
all,
but many.
I'm sure that's partly my liberal bias talking. Objectivity is my
ideal,
but a tough road to walk nevertheless.
What are the things that you find to be unique to Christianity and
other
conservative religions, if you don't mind me asking? I guess I'm
wondering if what you see as unique to Christianity is universal
throughout all of Christianity, as opposed to being unique to only
some
of the denominations.
One other thing. When I speak of things "unique to Christianity" I'm
talking about things unique to the Christian Bible. Many attitudes held
by conservative Christians are not in the Bible, I realize that.
However, the Bible has things in it that I simply cannot accept as being
good things. Maybe if you look at the Bible as containing errors by the
human scribes that wrote it down, you can resolve those problems. I
don't know.
Ayep, that's one way to get around it. And I must confess I am not a
literalist. I think several of the stories in the OT are meant to teach
a point, not to be taken literally. But honestly I'm not quite sure what
I think of the OT alot of the time. I sometimes wonder if the Jews
figured that every time a battle went their way, God was with them. They
did survive quite a bit of mayhem, but I'm not so sure it could be said
that God was absolutely thrilled with everything they did.
By the same token, while they were looking for a military messiah to
lead them into battle so that they might get back what they'd lost,
instead they got little ol' Jesus talking about love and turning the
other cheek.
Nevertheless, I have to also admit I'm more of a New Testament gal. I
don't know the OT as well as I should.
But as far as interpretation is concerned, I want to know more about
Jewish culture and literature. I'm one of those critical historical
analysis people. I don't think you can read the Bible and look at it
with modern eyes. You have to filter it through the perceptions of the
time to get everything in context.
I'm also interested in theology, and finding out what scholars think was
originally in the Bible and what was added along the way. If I remember
correctly, there was one article I read that said Jesus called himself
"Son of Man" but that "Son of God" was added later, for instance.
And I'm reading a book about taking the historical approach to the
Bible. I don't agree with everything in it so far, but I'm interested in
the assertion that the Gentiles (pagans) who were assimilated into the
religion may have altered the way some Jewish concepts were percieved.
That might explain why Jesus' origins look so much like several pagan
gods' origins.
I don't know either. I think you could study the Bible until you die,
and still not "get" it all. There's more there than it looks like
sometimes on the surface, I think. I want to do so much more studying on
the subject than I have time for. I'm still holding out hope for osmosis
;-)
Erica
--
My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.
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| User: "*nemo*" |
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| Title: Re: An atheist goes to church |
19 Nov 2003 05:14:22 PM |
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In article
<scribe53151nospam-334DF5.14061819112003@newshost1.news.tds.net>,
Erica <scribe53151nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
Ayep, that's one way to get around it. And I must confess I am not a
literalist. I think several of the stories in the OT are meant to teach
a point, not to be taken literally. But honestly I'm not quite sure what
I think of the OT alot of the time. I sometimes wonder if the Jews
figured that every time a battle went their way, God was with them. They
did survive quite a bit of mayhem, but I'm not so sure it could be said
that God was absolutely thrilled with everything they did.
By the same token, while they were looking for a military messiah to
lead them into battle so that they might get back what they'd lost,
instead they got little ol' Jesus talking about love and turning the
other cheek.
Nevertheless, I have to also admit I'm more of a New Testament gal. I
don't know the OT as well as I should.
You should study it. There's a *lot* of surprising things in it.
Like in the book of Judges, you'll see lots of stories of mythical
peoples taking the Hebrews captive over and over again, then being
rescued by millitary saviors... and a lot of the stories are of
extremely brutal, barbaric saviors at that. Like Jephthah (later named
as a paragon of faith in Hebrews), or Ehud, who tricked his way into the
chamber of a king, in order to assassinate him, saying "I have a message
for you from God."
And don't even get me started over Gideon and his father! Oy!
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: An atheist goes to church |
24 Nov 2003 12:07:15 AM |
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On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:06:18 -0600, Erica <scribe53151nospam@yahoo.com>,
Message ID:
<scribe53151nospam-334DF5.14061819112003@newshost1.news.tds.net> wrote
in alt.atheism;
In article <Xns9437864035827Mekkala@199.45.49.11>,
Mekkala <joremovedathiskimtoreply@attbi.com> wrote:
On 18 Nov 2003, Erica <scribe53151nospam@yahoo.com> screwed up his face,
groaned, pushed hard, and farted out the following message in
news:scribe53151nospam-B92BF4.12550718112003@newshost1.news.tds.net:
In article <Xns943770850E76AMekkala@199.45.49.11>,
Mekkala <joremovedathiskimtoreply@attbi.com> wrote:
Except, the things they say that I agree with are things just about
every decent person says, Christian or not. The things that are
unique
to Christianity and similar conservative religions, though...
So, really, I don't see the benefit.
I've typed and erased a reply three times now. I have no idea how to
word this, so bare with me. I guess, from my point of view, it is not
a
conservative religion, or at least not inherently so. I sometimes
think
that many of the conservatives in Christianity are like the Pharasees.
Outwardly correct, but inwardly corrupt, and heartless to boot. Not
all,
but many.
I'm sure that's partly my liberal bias talking. Objectivity is my
ideal,
but a tough road to walk nevertheless.
What are the things that you find to be unique to Christianity and
other
conservative religions, if you don't mind me asking? I guess I'm
wondering if what you see as unique to Christianity is universal
throughout all of Christianity, as opposed to being unique to only
some
of the denominations.
One other thing. When I speak of things "unique to Christianity" I'm
talking about things unique to the Christian Bible. Many attitudes held
by conservative Christians are not in the Bible, I realize that.
However, the Bible has things in it that I simply cannot accept as being
good things. Maybe if you look at the Bible as containing errors by the
human scribes that wrote it down, you can resolve those problems. I
don't know.
Ayep, that's one way to get around it. And I must confess I am not a
literalist. I think several of the stories in the OT are meant to teach
a point, not to be taken literally. But honestly I'm not quite sure what
I think of the OT alot of the time. I sometimes wonder if the Jews
figured that every time a battle went their way, God was with them. They
did survive quite a bit of mayhem, but I'm not so sure it could be said
that God was absolutely thrilled with everything they did.
By the same token, while they were looking for a military messiah to
lead them into battle so that they might get back what they'd lost,
instead they got little ol' Jesus talking about love and turning the
other cheek.
So much for 'love' and 'turning the other cheek.'
Matthew 10 (KJV)
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to
send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the
daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother
in law.
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me:
and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not
worthy of me.
Luke 14
25 And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said
unto them,
26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and
wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life
also, he cannot be my disciple.
27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be
my disciple.
Matthew 12
29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his
goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his
house.
30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not
with me scattereth abroad.
Luke 11
23 He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not
with me scattereth.
Mark 9
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to
enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the
fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to
enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into
the fire that never shall be quenched:
46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee
to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to
be cast into hell fire:
Matthew 7
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and
then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's
eye.
6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your
pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn
again and rend you.
Matthew 15
22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and
cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my
daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought
him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of
the house of Israel.
25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's
bread, and to cast it to dogs.
27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which
fall from their masters' table.
John 2
1 And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the
mother of Jesus was there:
2 And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.
3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They
have no wine.
4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour
is not yet come.
Nevertheless, I have to also admit I'm more of a New Testament gal. I
don't know the OT as well as I should.
The OT is like Al Capone rising to power while the NT is after power is
secured.
But as far as interpretation is concerned, I want to know more about
Jewish culture and literature. I'm one of those critical historical
analysis people. I don't think you can read the Bible and look at it
with modern eyes. You have to filter it through the perceptions of the
time to get everything in context.
There's nothing to interpet. All versions of the Bible are presented as
"the word of god." It can either be trusted or it can't. If verses
dealing with the ordering of atrocities can't be taken as the verbage
states then neither can the salvation verses.
The tome is a window into a barbarous bronze age culture almost two
millenia dead. It has value for that.
I'm also interested in theology, and finding out what scholars think was
originally in the Bible and what was added along the way. If I remember
correctly, there was one article I read that said Jesus called himself
"Son of Man" but that "Son of God" was added later, for instance.
There's no telling as it's been edited, and re-edited many times.
Please keep in mind "Jesus" is a character in a bronze age tale.
And I'm reading a book about taking the historical approach to the
Bible. I don't agree with everything in it so far, but I'm interested in
the assertion that the Gentiles (pagans) who were assimilated into the
religion may have altered the way some Jewish concepts were percieved.
That might explain why Jesus' origins look so much like several pagan
gods' origins.
Christianity is the result of the theft of other current and prior
superstition's stories with the 'serial numbers filed off.'
I don't know either. I think you could study the Bible until you die,
and still not "get" it all. There's more there than it looks like
sometimes on the surface, I think. I want to do so much more studying on
the subject than I have time for. I'm still holding out hope for osmosis
;-)
It's a work of fiction no different than the Egyptian Book of the Dead.
Using standard christian apologetics John Hattan can prove the inerrancy
of "The Cat in the Hat."
Erica
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "*nemo*" |
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| Title: Re: An atheist goes to church |
19 Nov 2003 04:23:56 AM |
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In article <Xns9437864035827Mekkala@199.45.49.11>,
Mekkala <joremovedathiskimtoreply@attbi.com> wrote:
One other thing. When I speak of things "unique to Christianity" I'm
talking about things unique to the Christian Bible. Many attitudes held
by conservative Christians are not in the Bible, I realize that.
However, the Bible has things in it that I simply cannot accept as being
good things. Maybe if you look at the Bible as containing errors by the
human scribes that wrote it down, you can resolve those problems. I
don't know.
For my own part, I think of the bad parts of the Bible as being
attributable to ancient, fallible humans writing what they guessed their
all-powerful God wanted written. As I said, religion brings out
personalities in greater detail. I think some people who wrote the Bible
were were genuinely good people, and some just nasty bastards. Too bad
for us that the ratio was so unbalanced. {;-)
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: An atheist goes to church |
23 Nov 2003 11:40:00 PM |
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On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 12:55:07 -0600, Erica <scribe53151nospam@yahoo.com>,
Message ID:
<scribe53151nospam-B92BF4.12550718112003@newshost1.news.tds.net> wrote
in alt.atheism;
In article <Xns943770850E76AMekkala@199.45.49.11>,
Mekkala <joremovedathiskimtoreply@attbi.com> wrote:
Except, the things they say that I agree with are things just about
every decent person says, Christian or not. The things that are unique
to Christianity and similar conservative religions, though...
So, really, I don't see the benefit.
I've typed and erased a reply three times now. I have no idea how to
word this, so bare with me.
Isn't it a tad nippy to be disrobing outside? :)
(snip)
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "*nemo*" |
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| Title: Re: An atheist goes to church |
18 Nov 2003 04:31:56 PM |
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In article <Xns943770850E76AMekkala@199.45.49.11>,
Mekkala <joremovedathiskimtoreply@attbi.com> wrote:
Well, there's the rub, isn't it? I don't believe their myths, but I do
agree with a lot of what is said, from a humanist perspective. There
are disagreements, but we do agree on a lot of things.
Except, the things they say that I agree with are things just about
every decent person says, Christian or not. The things that are unique
to Christianity and similar conservative religions, though...
So, really, I don't see the benefit.
That's a good point. I love calling out the pastor of the church I
attend and telling him, "You know this is barbaric, don't you?" We have
some stimulating discussions... all away from the hearing of the rest of
the church, of course. {;-)
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
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| User: "*nemo*" |
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| Title: Re: An atheist goes to church |
18 Nov 2003 04:58:28 AM |
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In article <x5fub.4212$sb4.2430@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
"Dr. DuFonet" <accordiondoc@mindsproing.cop> wrote:
I went to a church last Sunday, and ended up not explaining to anyone that I
was an atheist and making nice with the choir director and his wife, and the
minister. The choir director invited me to choir practice. I interviewed the
minister who welcomed me as a new attendee. I learned that he was an
ex-engineer who had recently graduated from seminary. The sermon was mainly
about Jessica Lynch. The minister mentioned the part about the Iraqi woman
who sang a Persian lullaby to Lynch over and over to comfort her. Of course
he gave the credit to the Christian God for this. If I had known him better,
it might have occurred to me to bring up this subject in our converstion.
I go to church pretty much every week. I attend with my wife, who is a
believer, and seems to think it'll "lead me back to Jeebus."
The nice thing is that all of the regulars at the Saturday night service
know I'm an atheist, and they're cool with it. I have lots of very
interesting conversations with the pastor. It's not bad, most of the
time. The baptism of babies and small children creep me out, but that's
not too often, happily.
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
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| User: "Im Gonna Clayton After Allllllllllll *toss hat in the air*" |
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| Title: Re: An atheist goes to church |
18 Nov 2003 07:57:00 PM |
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"*nemo*" <nemo0037@yahoo.dieSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:nemo0037-ACD7A6.05581018112003@news03.east.earthlink.net...
In article <x5fub.4212$sb4.2430@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
"Dr. DuFonet" <accordiondoc@mindsproing.cop> wrote:
I went to a church last Sunday, and ended up not explaining to anyone
that I
was an atheist and making nice with the choir director and his wife, and
the
minister. The choir director invited me to choir practice. I interviewed
the
minister who welcomed me as a new attendee. I learned that he was an
ex-engineer who had recently graduated from seminary. The sermon was
mainly
about Jessica Lynch. The minister mentioned the part about the Iraqi
woman
who sang a Persian lullaby to Lynch over and over to comfort her. Of
course
he gave the credit to the Christian God for this. If I had known him
better,
it might have occurred to me to bring up this subject in our
converstion.
I go to church pretty much every week. I attend with my wife, who is a
believer, and seems to think it'll "lead me back to Jeebus."
The nice thing is that all of the regulars at the Saturday night service
know I'm an atheist, and they're cool with it. I have lots of very
interesting conversations with the pastor. It's not bad, most of the
time. The baptism of babies and small children creep me out, but that's
not too often, happily.
Don't you just love it though when the baby "baptises" the priest back?
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
.
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| User: "Kenny Leong" |
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| Title: Re: An atheist goes to church |
25 Nov 2003 08:10:28 AM |
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*nemo* <nemo0037@yahoo.dieSPAM.com> wrote in message news:<nemo0037-ACD7A6.05581018112003@news03.east.earthlink.net>...
In article <x5fub.4212$sb4.2430@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
"Dr. DuFonet" <accordiondoc@mindsproing.cop> wrote:
I went to a church last Sunday, and ended up not explaining to anyone that I
was an atheist and making nice with the choir director and his wife, and the
minister. The choir director invited me to choir practice. I interviewed the
minister who welcomed me as a new attendee. I learned that he was an
ex-engineer who had recently graduated from seminary. The sermon was mainly
about Jessica Lynch. The minister mentioned the part about the Iraqi woman
who sang a Persian lullaby to Lynch over and over to comfort her. Of course
he gave the credit to the Christian God for this. If I had known him better,
it might have occurred to me to bring up this subject in our converstion.
I go to church pretty much every week. I attend with my wife, who is a
believer, and seems to think it'll "lead me back to Jeebus."
The nice thing is that all of the regulars at the Saturday night service
know I'm an atheist, and they're cool with it. I have lots of very
interesting conversations with the pastor. It's not bad, most of the
time. The baptism of babies and small children creep me out, but that's
not too often, happily.
As the minister there if he/she thinks that god is all-knowing. Then
ask the minister there if he/she thinks that god is a perfect planner.
Then ask if he/she thinks that god is a perfect designer. After you've
done this, you'll have received a YES for each answer.
Then proceed to tell the minister that if god has these three
attributes, then god can never make a product that has free-will.
That's because every single mechanical action/movement for god's
product 'must' have been all-knowingly planned and designed in
advance...before the product even existed. This of course is
ridiculous already because if the product didn't yet exist physically
or even virtually, then there's no way that god could be all-knowing
in the first place. This is because "if" god was all-knowing, then it
MUST mean the product existed (virtually) before it was created
physically.
Since the knowledge of the virtual product is perfect (that is, every
single mechanical action for this product was perfect planned with
complete knowledge of everything), then the virtual behaviour of the
product (behaviour in god's mind or the virtual world) would be NO
DIFFERENT than it would be in the PHYSICAL WORLD (once the product
becomes created physically). Anyway, let's just say that the virtual
and physical behaviour of the product would be exactly the same. So if
christians believe that 'god' is all-knowing, then the product has
always existed in the 'virtual' world (in this god's mind). And all of
the product's mechanical actions were hand picked by god him/herself.
Thus the product can have no free-will...because everything was
already fixed before the product was created physically. But of
course, to have the product exist virtually in god's mind contradicts
the first couple of lines of the OT, which tells you that the product
wasn't even around at one stage. And if the product has been around,
then it would have been around in a VIRTUAL form in god's mind. So
that if god were to create the product into the physical form later,
then there'd be no difference. It'd be a pointless exercise to create
something into the physical form just to see what it will do,
especially if you're the one that hand-picked every single attribute
and mechanical action for the product...and that you know that the
product would not be able to do anything different than what you
hand-picked it to do mechanically. (ie you know that the product would
have no free-will).
Kenny L.
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| User: "Erica" |
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| Title: Re: An atheist goes to church |
18 Nov 2003 09:17:24 AM |
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In article <nemo0037-ACD7A6.05581018112003@news03.east.earthlink.net>,
*nemo* <nemo0037@yahoo.dieSPAM.com> wrote:
In article <x5fub.4212$sb4.2430@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
"Dr. DuFonet" <accordiondoc@mindsproing.cop> wrote:
I went to a church last Sunday, and ended up not explaining to anyone that I
was an atheist and making nice with the choir director and his wife, and the
minister. The choir director invited me to choir practice. I interviewed the
minister who welcomed me as a new attendee. I learned that he was an
ex-engineer who had recently graduated from seminary. The sermon was mainly
about Jessica Lynch. The minister mentioned the part about the Iraqi woman
who sang a Persian lullaby to Lynch over and over to comfort her. Of course
he gave the credit to the Christian God for this. If I had known him better,
it might have occurred to me to bring up this subject in our converstion.
I go to church pretty much every week. I attend with my wife, who is a
believer, and seems to think it'll "lead me back to Jeebus."
The nice thing is that all of the regulars at the Saturday night service
know I'm an atheist, and they're cool with it. I have lots of very
interesting conversations with the pastor. It's not bad, most of the
time. The baptism of babies and small children creep me out, but that's
not too often, happily.
I find that cool Nemo. Not because I'm hoping it will "lead you back to
Jeebus" either. I think it's cool that they accept you and you accept
them, that there is common ground between you and it sounds like you and
they are getting something out of it. Quite cool.
--
My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.
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| User: "J Forbes" |
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| Title: Re: An atheist goes to church |
18 Nov 2003 09:52:24 AM |
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Erica wrote:
In article <nemo0037-ACD7A6.05581018112003@news03.east.earthlink.net>,
*nemo* <nemo0037@yahoo.dieSPAM.com> wrote:
I go to church pretty much every week. I attend with my wife, who is a
believer, and seems to think it'll "lead me back to Jeebus."
The nice thing is that all of the regulars at the Saturday night service
know I'm an atheist, and they're cool with it. I have lots of very
interesting conversations with the pastor. It's not bad, most of the
time. The baptism of babies and small children creep me out, but that's
not too often, happily.
I find that cool Nemo. Not because I'm hoping it will "lead you back to
Jeebus" either. I think it's cool that they accept you and you accept
them, that there is common ground between you and it sounds like you and
they are getting something out of it. Quite cool.
I agree.
Sometimes it's hard for us to remember that the religious folk aren't as
evil as they think we are.....
--
Jim
Visit the Selectric Typewriter Museum!
http://www.mindspring.com/~jforbes2
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| User: "*nemo*" |
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| Title: Re: An atheist goes to church |
18 Nov 2003 04:36:37 PM |
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In article
<scribe53151nospam-621040.09172418112003@newshost1.news.tds.net>,
Erica <scribe53151nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
In article <nemo0037-ACD7A6.05581018112003@news03.east.earthlink.net>,
*nemo* <nemo0037@yahoo.dieSPAM.com> wrote:
<snip>
I go to church pretty much every week. I attend with my wife, who is a
believer, and seems to think it'll "lead me back to Jeebus."
The nice thing is that all of the regulars at the Saturday night service
know I'm an atheist, and they're cool with it. I have lots of very
interesting conversations with the pastor. It's not bad, most of the
time. The baptism of babies and small children creep me out, but that's
not too often, happily.
I find that cool Nemo. Not because I'm hoping it will "lead you back to
Jeebus" either. I think it's cool that they accept you and you accept
them, that there is common ground between you and it sounds like you and
they are getting something out of it. Quite cool.
It is a lot of fun, most of the time. A side benefit is that I'm doing
my bit to dispel the ugly rumor (found in the Bible) that unbelievers
are evil, dirty fools. It's a little civic duty I like to perform when I
get a chance. {;-)
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
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| User: "Beowulf" |
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| Title: Re: Re: An atheist goes to church |
19 Nov 2003 10:35:08 AM |
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On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:36:37 GMT, *nemo* <nemo0037@yahoo.dieSPAM.com>
ejaculated:
In article
<scribe53151nospam-621040.09172418112003@newshost1.news.tds.net>,
Erica <scribe53151nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
In article <nemo0037-ACD7A6.05581018112003@news03.east.earthlink.net>,
*nemo* <nemo0037@yahoo.dieSPAM.com> wrote:
<snip>
I go to church pretty much every week. I attend with my wife, who is a
believer, and seems to think it'll "lead me back to Jeebus."
The nice thing is that all of the regulars at the Saturday night service
know I'm an atheist, and they're cool with it. I have lots of very
interesting conversations with the pastor. It's not bad, most of the
time. The baptism of babies and small children creep me out, but that's
not too often, happily.
I find that cool Nemo. Not because I'm hoping it will "lead you back to
Jeebus" either. I think it's cool that they accept you and you accept
them, that there is common ground between you and it sounds like you and
they are getting something out of it. Quite cool.
It is a lot of fun, most of the time. A side benefit is that I'm doing
my bit to dispel the ugly rumor (found in the Bible) that unbelievers
are evil, dirty fools. It's a little civic duty I like to perform when I
get a chance. {;-)
Your civic duty only works on the people who already don't think that.
Since the hard-core fundies think the mere fact that you think for
yourself is sufficient evidence of your depravity, regardless of how
good a person you are.
Remember, "by grace through faith and that not of works, lest any man
should boast".
--
Jesus is my crush.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: An atheist goes to church |
19 Nov 2003 05:04:09 PM |
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On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:58:28 GMT, *nemo* <nemo0037@yahoo.dieSPAM.com>
wrote:
In article <x5fub.4212$sb4.2430@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
"Dr. DuFonet" <accordiondoc@mindsproing.cop> wrote:
I went to a church last Sunday, and ended up not explaining to anyone that I
was an atheist and making nice with the choir director and his wife, and the
minister. The choir director invited me to choir practice. I interviewed the
minister who welcomed me as a new attendee. I learned that he was an
ex-engineer who had recently graduated from seminary. The sermon was mainly
about Jessica Lynch. The minister mentioned the part about the Iraqi woman
who sang a Persian lullaby to Lynch over and over to comfort her. Of course
he gave the credit to the Christian God for this. If I had known him better,
it might have occurred to me to bring up this subject in our converstion.
I go to church pretty much every week. I attend with my wife, who is a
believer, and seems to think it'll "lead me back to Jeebus."
The nice thing is that all of the regulars at the Saturday night service
know I'm an atheist, and they're cool with it. I have lots of very
interesting conversations with the pastor. It's not bad, most of the
time. The baptism of babies and small children creep me out, but that's
not too often, happily.
I completely understand, Nemo. I'm just curious, what denomination
church do you attend?
Funny thing is, that, in a way, I do miss some of the trappings
of religion. I am a Roman Catholic by birth and indoctrination. Some
of the smartest men and women I've encountered have been priests,
nuns, brothers...etc. I too enjoyed my discussions with these men and
women of the cloth. The best bit is that rarely did we discuss
religion.
I received a catholic education. Fortunately, those who
instructed me never seemed to discourage their students from thinking
for themselves. My memories include men and women in full religious
garb teaching me evolution and biology as fact, and the bible as a
useful guide to life, though not necessarily without flaw. I do cling
to a christian ideal, because it's a pretty cool way to live, though
not unique to christianity. My senior class in religion included
months devoted to Islam, Judaism (we had a field trip to a
synagogue...the *only* synagogue within 100km...it *was* the bible
belt after all, I remember it to this day. We were told to show
absolute respect to the rabbi and their beliefs at all times, and we
did. I still do to this day.), Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, ancient
religions...etc. Again, we were told that we should respect other
religions, and that we could learn from them.
Amazing, now that I look back at it. In a way they are
responsible for allowing me to become an atheist, and I feel that I
owe them for that, and I will *never* casually dismiss them as fools.
They made me wish that I wish there was a God, but gave me the tools
to realize that there probably was not.
(I do dismiss, however, bible thumpers with fiberglass hair, preaching
intolerance of disparate ideas. Fundies suck.)
Lately, I feel that I have gone overboard, separating myself from
the people, though I don't regret separating myself from the religion.
I've even thought about attending a church near me. Episcopal, though,
kinda like catholic, but within walking distance. (My mother is
episcopal...she would weep openly if she knew I was going. She knows
that I'm a 'heathen'. Heh.) I probably wouldn't fit in, my pro-choice
anti-death penalty stance is in direct contravention of the
"christian" position.
zamboni
#2139
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| User: "Indefual" |
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| Title: Re: An atheist goes to church |
20 Nov 2003 07:19:16 PM |
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wrote:
I probably wouldn't fit in, my pro-choice
anti-death penalty stance is in direct contravention of the
"christian" position.
Hmmm... Just to argue semantics (not with you, but with pro-lifers) I
suppose you could (successfully) argue that you are BOTH pro-choice AND
pro-life (I.e., anti-death penalty).
That would throw some people for a spin: 'Yes, I am pro-choice and
pro-life.'
-Shawn P. 'Indefual' Conroy
--
"If you don't have a sense of humor,
you probably don't have any sense at all." -Unknown
http://www.indefual.net/
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: An atheist goes to church |
24 Nov 2003 11:33:09 AM |
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On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:04:09 -0600, zamboni30000@knowspamatyahoo.com,
Message ID: <aapnrvk0u3jgn508uieh88uq26bm9674im@4ax.com> wrote in
alt.atheism;
(snip)
Lately, I feel that I have gone overboard, separating myself from
the people, though I don't regret separating myself from the religion.
I've even thought about attending a church near me. Episcopal, though,
kinda like catholic, but within walking distance. (My mother is
episcopal...she would weep openly if she knew I was going. She knows
that I'm a 'heathen'. Heh.) I probably wouldn't fit in, my pro-choice
anti-death penalty stance is in direct contravention of the
"christian" position.
The Bible has no problem with either abortion or gay marriage.
zamboni
#2139
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: An atheist goes to church |
18 Nov 2003 10:45:07 PM |
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On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 02:03:09 GMT, "Dr. DuFonet"
<accordiondoc@mindsproing.cop> posted in alt.atheism:
about Jessica Lynch. The minister mentioned the part about the Iraqi woman
who sang a Persian lullaby to Lynch over and over to comfort her. Of course
he gave the credit to the Christian God for this. If I had known him better,
it might have occurred to me to bring up this subject in our converstion.
Do you usually try to have serious discussions with the brain damaged?
:)
--
"I see only with deep regret that God punishes so many of His children for their
numerous stupidities, for which only He Himself can be held responsible; in my opinion,
only His nonexistence could excuse Him."
-A. Einstein (Letter to Edgar Meyer, Jan. 2, 1915)
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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