| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"JPG" |
| Date: |
06 Feb 2006 07:47:12 AM |
| Object: |
An atheist's view of life's progress |
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20060206/FACTS06/TPComment/Features
An atheist's view of life's progress
With no higher power to guide, an atheist needs principles to live by,
says SUDHIR JAIN
SUDHIR JAIN
Atheists believe that the Creator, if any, has no interest in the
living beings and there is no life after death. There is no soul which
will enjoy the heavenly bliss or roast in hell for eternity. With no
scriptures to guide them and homogenize their opinions, atheists have
very divergent views. Therefore, I speak only for myself not for
atheists in general.
Most believers in an omnipotent God had this belief planted in them in
early childhood and they never saw any reason to think otherwise. In
other cases, the person did not have any particular faith until a
disaster struck and the idea of a Superpower provided much-needed
solace. This may be a partial explanation for recent resurgence of
religion. The increasing prosperity after industrial revolution made
Superpower superfluous to many people. However, insecure jobs, gang
warfare, terrorist activities, global warming, overpopulation, blatant
consumerism, etc., are stressing people beyond their endurance and they
are returning to the virtual arms of the saviour. Places of worship are
filling again with "born again" Christians, Hindus and Muslims.
In my childhood in India, my devout Hindu parents did not force
religion on the children. Their sons were free to choose different
paths as long as they were "good" boys. My oldest brother was always
very religious. The other brother was an agnostic but turned to God in
his 40s. I have been an atheist for as long as I can remember. I was a
voracious reader as a child and read many religious books. This study
convinced me that while the enunciated principles were noble, God and
soul were merely tools to force obeisance and they were not meant for
me. Further reading about other religions in later life confirmed this
belief.
With no higher power to guide, an atheist needs principles to live by.
Principles help in deciding what to do when there is no time to think.
A religious person prays when confronted by a tough problem. An atheist
falls back on his principles: what will be the right thing to do? A
selfish person decides to act in his interest irrespective of how
harmful it is to others. Many apparently religious people probably fall
in this group, too, just as many atheists could be included in the
group of kindly persons who help others, often at considerable
inconvenience.
The basic principle in my life is the common element in all religions:
Do unto others what you wish them to do to you. When someone does me an
unpleasant turn, I try not to retaliate. My efforts are geared toward
making other person feel better. Vengeance is the urge to do unto
others what they do to you and it is a sin in all religions. I wish to
avoid sins because I believe that what goes round comes around in this
life.
All good behaviour has the source in this principle. Be fair and honest
because you want others to be fair and honest to you. Do not lie to
colleagues because you don't want to be lied to. Help a person in
distress because you will be in distress some day. The sages have
differed through the ages about the degree to which one must sacrifice
his interest for others. But no one has ever recommended looking after
numero uno irrespective of other numerals. One should not need to fear
the punishment from God to follow this basic idea to a reasonable
degree.
One observation helps me keep my equanimity; good and bad events even
out over a period. Therefore, I do not go overboard with joy in good
times or suffer depression in bad times, expecting the pendulum to
swing before long. My temperament also helps; I am a problem solver.
When in trouble, I focus on possible solutions, concentrating on
minimizing the damage and coming out as whole as possible. This leaves
little time to feel helpless. I have been able to cope with my problems
so far with my internal resources. I do hope that I will tackle
whatever comes with the ability I have at that time.
Prayer gives people of faith strength and they believe that praying for
the well-being of a suffering individual transmits the strength to the
ailing. What does an atheist do to find this strength? When a task
appears to be beyond his capacity, rather than praying "God, give me
strength," an atheist says "Come on, you can do it." Sometimes he does
it, other times he can't. But prayers do not achieve results every
time, either. Does a non-believer benefit from the prayers of the
well-wishers? Recently I spent three days lost in a dense forest. While
I appreciate the kind thoughts behind the prayers of my religious
friends, I was not conscious of any strength transmitted by them.
What is the purpose of life on this planet? Religions state that we are
here for the glory of God who, if we let Him, guides us to our
salvation. I believe in a humble purpose: to discharge my
responsibilities to the best of my ability, to serve my family,
community and the humanity at large and live a lifestyle where I
contribute to society more than I take from it. I strive towards this
ideal, with what success is not for me to judge.
Sudhir Jain lives in Calgary.
.
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: An atheist's view of life's progress |
21 Feb 2006 07:31:57 PM |
|
|
Bullet wrote:
<jientho@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1140492241.551615.55000@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Bullet wrote:
<jientho@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1140220166.049435.67530@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Bullet wrote:
<jientho@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1140205500.535979.230550@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Bullet wrote:
<jientho@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1140141346.736902.206700@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Bullet wrote:
"Virgil" <ITSnetNOTcom#virgil@COMCAST.com> wrote in message
news:ITSnetNOTcom%23virgil-4D895B.19152915022006@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
Does Septic get all of his ethics and morality in this same
unreasoning
and unreasoned way
There is nothing unreasonable about reductio ad absurdum
Fallacy of Ignoratio Elenchi from Septic. Whence comes the
supposed
"absurdity" on which you purport to _base_ your reductio ad
absurdum,
Septic? Evidently it is purely from your own imagination,
which is
the
"unreasoning and unreasoned way" Virgil is referring to. E.g.
there
is
nothing inherently or intrinsically absurd about a person being
killed.
Nothing absurd about murdering one's fellow human beans??
See "the death penalty"
That is not murder.
Then whence comes the absurdity of murder?
Murder is a well-defined act considered absurd
Whence comes the absurdity
Already answered.
False.
We hold some truths to be self evident
Murder is not absurd, Septic. So you are referencing no truth, let
alone a self-evident truth, let alone anything held by "us". You lose,
Septic. Again. You're such a sad sack.
Jeff
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bullet" |
|
| Title: Re: An atheist's view of life's progress |
21 Feb 2006 09:48:01 PM |
|
|
<jientho@aol.com> wrote
Murder is not absurd
<backs away slowly>
Don't feed these trolls, <jientho@aol.com> and his pals.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: An atheist's view of life's progress |
22 Feb 2006 06:55:36 PM |
|
|
Bullet wrote:
<jientho@aol.com> wrote
Murder is not absurd
<backs away slowly>
<laughs at Septic's ignorance of the meaning of "absurd", and in
particular the meaning that "absurd" must have if reductio ad absurdum
is to be an effective means of proof as Septic would have it>
Obvious Fallacy of Equivocation from Septic on "absurd".
Jeff
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bullet" |
|
| Title: Re: An atheist's view of life's progress |
22 Feb 2006 10:40:18 PM |
|
|
self-evident
1.. obviously true, and requiring no proof, argument or explanation
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal
.. . . US Declaration of Independence 1776
Retrieved from "http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/self-evident"
We hold some truths to be self evident (because the
contrary would be an absurd state of affairs), including but not limited to
the principle that all persons come into the world equal and endowed with
certain unalienable rights, including but not limited to life, liberty, and
due proces of law. That makes murder
("the crime of unlawfully killing a
person especially with malice aforethought"
http://m-w.com/dictionary/murder)
absurd, not acceptable behavior. Google
reductio ad absurdum (the disproof of a proposition by showing that it
entails an absurdity).
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: An atheist's view of life's progress |
23 Feb 2006 07:02:04 PM |
|
|
Bullet wrote:
self-evident
1.. obviously true, and requiring no proof, argument or explanation
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal
. . . US Declaration of Independence 1776
Retrieved from "http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/self-evident"
We hold some truths to be self evident (because the
contrary would be an absurd state of affairs
False. That is not the reason, Septic. RaA is a method of proof, or
at the very least argument, and your own reference above says
"requiring no proof [or] argument". Self-refute much, Septic? Again?
Jeff
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bullet" |
|
| Title: Re: An atheist's view of life's progress |
24 Feb 2006 12:47:40 PM |
|
|
self-evident : obviously true, and requiring no proof, argument or
explanation because the contrary would be an absurd state of affairs
See: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/self-evident
.
|
|
|
| User: "Virgil" |
|
| Title: Re: An atheist's view of life's progress |
24 Feb 2006 04:01:00 PM |
|
|
In article <aq2dnSBeLq3syWLeRVn-iw@comcast.com>,
"Bullet" <b@nospam.net> wrote:
self-evident : obviously true, and requiring no proof, argument or
explanation
See: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/self-evident
self-evident : obviously true, and requiring no proof, argument or
explanation BECAUSE THE CONTRARY WOULD BE AN ABSURD STATE OF AFFAIRS
See: any of Septic's false claims on this issue in which he argues that
one can determine what would be an absurd state of affairs without
having any prior knowledge or opinions about anything.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bullet" |
|
| Title: Re: An atheist's view of life's progress |
24 Feb 2006 06:20:28 PM |
|
|
self-evident : obviously true, and requiring no proof, argument or
explanation because the contrary would be an absurd state of affairs
See: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/self-evident
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: An atheist's view of life's progress |
24 Feb 2006 06:42:24 PM |
|
|
Bullet wrote:
self-evident : obviously true, and requiring no proof, argument or
explanation because the contrary would be an absurd state of affairs
See: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/self-evident
If no explanation is required, what is that explanation beginning with
"because..." doing in there? Oh, that's not the definition as given at
wiktionary. Once again Septic has invalidly _added_ his own clause to
someone else's definition thereby making the definition
self-contradictory. Bwahahahahahaha. Self-contradict much, Septic?
(Answer: yes.)
Septic once again demonstrates the fact that he remains the completely
self-contradictory, hypocritical, fallacious, mendacious, and
discredited old idiot fool liar of alt.atheism, as always. Ho hum.
Jeff
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ben Kaufman" |
|
| Title: Re: An atheist's view of life's progress |
25 Feb 2006 08:02:05 AM |
|
|
On 24 Feb 2006 16:42:24 -0800, wrote:
Bullet wrote:
self-evident : obviously true, and requiring no proof, argument or
explanation because the contrary would be an absurd state of affairs
See: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/self-evident
If no explanation is required, what is that explanation beginning with
"because..." doing in there? Oh, that's not the definition as given at
wiktionary. Once again Septic has invalidly _added_ his own clause to
someone else's definition thereby making the definition
self-contradictory. Bwahahahahahaha. Self-contradict much, Septic?
(Answer: yes.)
Septic once again demonstrates the fact that he remains the completely
self-contradictory, hypocritical, fallacious, mendacious, and
discredited old idiot fool liar of alt.atheism, as always. Ho hum.
Jeff
Good catch. What an excellent way to weaken the credibility of one's argument.
It's ironic that they use the "we hold these truths to be self-evident that all
men are created equally" at a time when slavery was allowed.
Ben
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: An atheist's view of life's progress |
25 Feb 2006 08:55:22 AM |
|
|
Ben Kaufman wrote:
On 24 Feb 2006 16:42:24 -0800, wrote:
Bullet wrote:
self-evident : obviously true, and requiring no proof, argument or
explanation because the contrary would be an absurd state of affairs
See: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/self-evident
If no explanation is required, what is that explanation beginning with
"because..." doing in there? Oh, that's not the definition as given at
wiktionary. Once again Septic has invalidly _added_ his own clause to
someone else's definition thereby making the definition
self-contradictory. Bwahahahahahaha. Self-contradict much, Septic?
(Answer: yes.)
Septic once again demonstrates the fact that he remains the completely
self-contradictory, hypocritical, fallacious, mendacious, and
discredited old idiot fool liar of alt.atheism, as always. Ho hum.
Jeff
Good catch. What an excellent way to weaken the credibility of one's argument.
It's ironic that they use the "we hold these truths to be self-evident that all
men are created equally" at a time when slavery was allowed.
"Equal", not "equally". Perhaps ironic, but don't forget that slaves
were not considered "men" either at that time. Or if they were
considered men at their creation, they were considered to have devolved
into something less than men (slaves), to be counted as three-fifths of
a man for census purposes iirc.
Jeff
Jeff
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Bullet" |
|
| Title: Re: An atheist's view of life's progress |
26 Feb 2006 11:23:03 AM |
|
|
Can you cite any self-evident truth the contrary of which would not entail
an absurd state of affairs?
Google reductio ad absurdum (disproof of a proposition by showing that it
entails an absurd state of affairs).
.
|
|
|
| User: "Virgil" |
|
| Title: Re: An atheist's view of life's progress |
26 Feb 2006 01:34:37 PM |
|
|
In article <9a6dnWkB-60EfpzZ4p2dnA@comcast.com>,
"Bullet" <b@nospam.net> wrote:
Can you cite any self-evident truth the contrary of which would not entail
an absurd state of affairs?
Can Septic cite any self-evident truth in his source for that phrase,
The Declaration of Independence, which is not justified by an appeal to
the Creator for its self-evident nature?
So Septic is turned preacher!
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bullet" |
|
| Title: Re: An atheist's view of life's progress |
27 Feb 2006 10:38:06 AM |
|
|
The only 'creators' I have are my mom and dad, may they rest in peace.
How about you?
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: An atheist's view of life's progress |
27 Feb 2006 07:55:41 PM |
|
|
Bullet wrote:
The only 'creators' I have are my mom and dad,
Prove it, Septic. I'll bet you don't even have so much as a DNA
profile to support your bald assertion above (Fallacy of Argument by
Assertion from Septic). Plenty of mail men and other "milk men" out
there, you know...
Jeff
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Virgil" |
|
| Title: Re: An atheist's view of life's progress |
27 Feb 2006 03:35:10 PM |
|
|
In article <_dCdnUeUoIhEt57ZRVn-rA@comcast.com>,
"Bullet" <b@nospam.net> wrote:
The only 'creators' I have are my mom and dad, may they rest in peace.
Don't blame them for it!
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: An atheist's view of life's progress |
26 Feb 2006 06:33:18 PM |
|
|
Septic wrote:
Can you cite any self-evident truth the contrary of which would not entail
an absurd state of affairs?
Yes: Septic is a liar.
Also: All men are created equal. And all men are endowed by their
Creator with unalienable rights. Etc. etc. etc.
E.g. there is nothing absurd atall atall with Feudalism.
Jeff
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bullet" |
|
| Title: Re: An atheist's view of life's progress |
27 Feb 2006 10:35:37 AM |
|
|
There is nothing absurd about Feudalism?
You might say that if you were the lord of the mannor, the massa of the
plantation.
Otherwise, it's an absurd state of affairs for all concerned!
self-evident
1.. obviously true, and requiring no proof, argument or explanation
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal
.. . . US Declaration of Independence 1776
Retrieved from "http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/self-evident"
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: An atheist's view of life's progress |
27 Feb 2006 07:45:35 PM |
|
|
Bullet wrote:
There is nothing absurd about Feudalism.
You might say that
I already did, Septic.
Jeff
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bullet" |
|
| Title: Re: An atheist's view of life's progress |
02 Mar 2006 04:32:15 PM |
|
|
There is nothing absurd about Feudalism?
You might say that if you were the lord of the mannor, the massa of the
plantation.
Otherwise, it's an absurd state of affairs for all concerned!
self-evident
1.. obviously true, and requiring no proof, argument or explanation
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal
.. . . US Declaration of Independence 1776
Retrieved from "http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/self-evident"
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: An atheist's view of life's progress |
02 Mar 2006 05:24:42 PM |
|
|
Bullet wrote:
There is nothing absurd about Feudalism.
You might say that
I already did, Septic. Two bags full.
Jeff
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Virgil" |
|
| Title: Re: An atheist's view of life's progress |
02 Mar 2006 05:38:39 PM |
|
|
In article <W6WdnYQfe-bP75rZnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Bullet" <b@nospam.net> wrote:
There is nothing absurd about Feudalism?
Depends entirely on the alternatives possible. With no stable
alternatives, it is certainly less absurd than the chaos from which it
sprung.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Les Hellawell" |
|
| Title: Re: An atheist's view of life's progress |
03 Mar 2006 05:05:54 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:32:15 -0800, "Bullet" <b@nospam.net> wrote:
There is nothing absurd about Feudalism?
You might say that if you were the lord of the mannor, the massa of the
plantation.
Otherwise, it's an absurd state of affairs for all concerned!
self-evident
Evident to self?
That is the claim of the God (whatever one of those is) believers
isn't it?
It was certainly god believers who coined "We hold these truths.."
Only god believers assert truth the rest of us still seek it
the best we can.
--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bullet" |
|
| Title: Re: An atheist's view of life's progress |
03 Mar 2006 12:45:20 PM |
|
|
"Les Hellawell" <myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote in message
news:958g02lc7dkrfufj1kpajkgsf33485fpc1@4ax.com...
On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:32:15 -0800, "Bullet" <b@nospam.net> wrote:
There is nothing absurd about Feudalism?
You might say that if you were the lord of the mannor, the massa of the
plantation.
Otherwise, it's an absurd state of affairs for all concerned!
self-evident
Evident to self?
No, knucklehead, evident in and of THE STATEMENT ITSELF (self-evident),
because the opposite (being born into servitude to a despot, having no
rights) would be an absurd state of affairs. Google reductio ad absurdum,
disproof of a proposition by showing that it entails an absurd state of
affairs.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Virgil" |
|
| Title: Re: An atheist's view of life's progress |
03 Mar 2006 04:20:38 PM |
|
|
In article <juOdnXHxvIU8E5XZnZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Bullet" <b@nospam.net> wrote:
"Les Hellawell" <myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote in message
news:958g02lc7dkrfufj1kpajkgsf33485fpc1@4ax.com...
On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:32:15 -0800, "Bullet" <b@nospam.net> wrote:
There is nothing absurd about Feudalism?
You might say that if you were the lord of the mannor, the massa of the
plantation.
Otherwise, it's an absurd state of affairs for all concerned!
self-evident
Evident to self?
No, knucklehead, evident in and of THE STATEMENT ITSELF (self-evident),
because the opposite (being born into servitude to a despot, having no
rights) would be an absurd state of affairs. Google reductio ad absurdum,
disproof of a proposition by showing that it entails an absurd state of
affairs.
Then Septic must regard all of history prior to July 4, 1776 to be
absurd, and much of it since.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Virgil" |
|
| Title: Re: An atheist's view of life's progress |
27 Feb 2006 03:34:26 PM |
|
|
In article <FqadneeAd43ct57ZRVn-pg@comcast.com>,
"Bullet" <b@nospam.net> wrote:
There is nothing absurd about Feudalism?
You might say that if you were the lord of the mannor, the massa of the
plantation.
Otherwise, it's an absurd state of affairs for all concerned!
Feudalism is only absurd when there are other and better options
realistically avaiable.
At the time, the options seemed to be limited to Feudalism or chaos.
Even for serfs, Feudalism might have looked like the better choice.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bullet" |
|
| Title: Re: An atheist's view of life's progress |
02 Mar 2006 04:42:19 PM |
|
|
Feudalism is only absurd when there are other and better options
realistically avaiable?
Don't be silly; iberty, equality, and fraternity have always been available
as a realistic alternative to feudalism. It is just not in the best interest
of the feudal lords to go that way, and they won't unless the masses insist.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Virgil" |
|
| Title: Re: An atheist's view of life's progress |
02 Mar 2006 05:52:29 PM |
|
|
In article <5oGdnUIIF84z6ZrZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Bullet" <b@nospam.net> wrote:
Feudalism is only absurd when there are other and better options
realistically avaiable?
I would have said 'available', but otherwise, yes!
Don't be silly; iberty, equality, and fraternity have always been available
as a realistic alternative to feudalism.
One has to have a certain amount of security before one can afford such
ideas, and one has to have the presence and general acceptance of those
ideas as well, neither of which were available at the time.
Septic has this penchant for drastic oversimplification which repeatedly
leads him to make an ***** of himself.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bullet" |
|
| Title: Re: An atheist's view of life's progress |
02 Mar 2006 08:47:56 PM |
|
|
"Virgil" <ITSnetNOTcom#virgil@COMCAST.com> wrote in message
news:ITSnetNOTcom%23virgil-63BFE6.16522902032006@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
In article <5oGdnUIIF84z6ZrZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Bullet" <b@nospam.net> wrote:
Feudalism is only absurd when there are other and better options
realistically avaiable?
I would have said 'available', but otherwise, yes!
Don't be silly; iberty, equality, and fraternity have always been
available
as a realistic alternative to feudalism.
One has to have a certain amount of security before ...
Are you arguing that it is impossible to defend our cities, preserve order,
and also have liberty (not license, liberty) and equality and fraternity all
at the same time?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Virgil" |
|
| Title: Re: An atheist's view of life's progress |
03 Mar 2006 01:53:15 AM |
|
|
In article <E-qdnWhydusnM5rZRVn-iQ@comcast.com>,
"Bullet" <b@nospam.net> wrote:
"Virgil" <ITSnetNOTcom#virgil@COMCAST.com> wrote in message
news:ITSnetNOTcom%23virgil-63BFE6.16522902032006@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
In article <5oGdnUIIF84z6ZrZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Bullet" <b@nospam.net> wrote:
Feudalism is only absurd when there are other and better options
realistically avaiable?
I would have said 'available', but otherwise, yes!
Don't be silly; iberty, equality, and fraternity have always been
available
as a realistic alternative to feudalism.
One has to have a certain amount of security before ...
Are you arguing that it is impossible to defend our cities, preserve order,
and also have liberty (not license, liberty) and equality and fraternity all
at the same time?
I am arguing that when feudalism came into being, it was because the
breakdown of the Roman Empire left Europe unable to defend their cities
and preserve order form the incursions of the Huns and other marauders
who came plundering. The Roman legions were no longer there to defend
them, and they had to create the best defences locally that they could.
Septic's ignorance of history seems to match his extreme levels of
ignorance of everything else.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
