| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Uncle Buck" |
| Date: |
28 Dec 2005 08:41:52 PM |
| Object: |
An hypothetical re: "sin" and "forgiveness" |
Suppose that in some sense, "sin" is discovered to be a very real
phenomenon. Maybe not exactly as taught by many religions, maybe it's more just
a "behavioral continuum" whereby the circumstances of our life are formulated as
a consequence of the positive and negative actions we have carried out over our
existence. In some ways, that's how it is, though it's far from the "karmic
ideal" whereby _every_ action brings a consequence back to the one who carried
it out. As it is, murderers sometimes get away with murder and live a good life
for their remaining years while the surviving loved ones of their victims bear
the trauma for the rest of their lives. Child molestors are often never caught,
and some are even quite comfortable and contented in their old age, not one
victim visiting the sins of the molester back onto hir. I guess for this
hypothetical to work with the world as we know it, there would have to be at
least a _little_ afterlife, even if it's only a brief moment of final reckoning
before we flicker out of existence forever. So suppose just for the sake of
argument that's how it is - that there is an afterlife, even if a very brief
one, in which we experience the final retribution for all our actions during
life, whether they are pleasant or hellish consequences, experiencing payback
until we've reached a point of "null due" where we can then wink out forever -
or perhaps even start over in a new life, if that's how you'd prefer to imagine
the scenario.
There, that's how it is in this hypothetical reality. Now suppose you
found that somehow, you and you alone have the power of "unconditional
forgiveness" for all karmic debt, either positive or negative. That would
essentially mean that when someone reached the end of their road, you could
enable them to skip "payback" and either go straight to winking out forever or
starting over (whichever the case may be). It wouldn't matter if they had a
hellish or glorious round of 'payback' coming to them, you could eliminate that
round for anyone you chose. You could eliminate as many private hells as you
chose while letting all the private heavens happen on schedule, or you could
eliminate all heavens and permit only hells to occur, or you could eliminate
some of either or all of both. Whatever you chose, there would be no eventual
consequence to any decision you made in this regard - any "karmic debt" or
"karmic surplus" would simply vanish forever at your choosing, any sort of
"balance" fully restored without a need for "payback" to ever occur on any level
at any time for anyone.
So... How would you use this ability? Or perhaps even more pertinent,
_would_ you use it? Or would you choose instead to just let nature take its
course and let people's lives and afterlives play out as they've been playing
out for eons? I think this is another one of those where no one's true answer
is fully "right" or "wrong".
For me, I think I would probably eliminate all hells and let all heavens
go on as normal, eliminating hells even for people like Hitler or Pol Pot for
reasons which are a bit odd to try and explain (nothing mystical or anything,
just "odd"). I guess the short of the long is that I would choose to reduce the
net suffering in the universe just because I could, and that would feel "right"
to me. But I suppose there are justifications for just about any choice one
could make in this scenario.
Just curious.... :-)
--
L8r,
Uncle Buck
aa#88
BAAWA Knight
"The gap betwixt civility and barbarism is the width of a tooth."
.
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| User: "cloim" |
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| Title: Re: An hypothetical re: "sin" and "forgiveness" |
28 Dec 2005 10:19:14 PM |
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On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 21:41:52 -0500, Uncle Buck wrote:
Suppose that in some sense, "sin" is discovered to be a very real
phenomenon.
<snip for brevity>
UB, you come up with some of the strangest hypotheticals.
So as to be clear, that's a compliment.
So... How would you use this ability? Or perhaps even more pertinent,
_would_ you use it? Or would you choose instead to just let nature take its
course and let people's lives and afterlives play out as they've been playing
out for eons? I think this is another one of those where no one's true answer
is fully "right" or "wrong".
For me, I think I would probably eliminate all hells and let all heavens
go on as normal, eliminating hells even for people like Hitler or Pol Pot for
reasons which are a bit odd to try and explain (nothing mystical or anything,
just "odd").
Given what you say below, I would think it odd if you did it any other way.
I guess the short of the long is that I would choose to reduce the
net suffering in the universe just because I could, and that would feel "right"
to me. But I suppose there are justifications for just about any choice one
could make in this scenario.
Just curious.... :-)
I'll assume for the sake of the hypothetical that I know that the ability
is real and not delusional. Which, of course, is exactly the way that
delusional people would behave.
Short answer, I don't really know. I'd try to find out more information.
If there isn't anything beyond the "momentary heaven or hell" then your
solution is appealing.
If there is something beyond, then the question is how does the experience
effect it? Would it make a bad person better or worse?
Given that society is steadily improving over the past, and assuming a
reincarnation scenario, I'd be hesitant to meddle with it.
And if the scenario is ultimately meaningless then I'd again revert to
your solution.
I have been wronged by a number of people over the years. In some cases
I'd seriously like to see them receive "consequences". But your scenario
does not jive with my sense of justice. "Punishment" should either prevent
or discourage future misconduct. Punishment, or even reward, after death
would be pointless.
Next question: Do you tell people
that your doing it? Keep in mind that countless fundies in this group have
avowed that without God they would be rapists and murderers. Lead by
example and hope they follow?
Philosophy is a wonderful thing.
.
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