| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Greywolf" |
| Date: |
13 Aug 2006 09:26:32 PM |
| Object: |
An Observation |
Theists are fond of using the 'pocket-watch in the desert' illustration to
imply that the universe had to have been 'designed' and 'manufactured' by a
brilliant ID'er.
Well let's switch objects. Let's substitute a nice-sized rock in place of
the pocket-watch. All of a sudden the idea of a brilliant ID'er loses a
lotta 'steam'. Does it not?
One other related observation: If you pick up the watch and examine it, you
may discover the name of the 'designer', who the 'manufacturer' was, and
perhaps where it was 'made'. Try that with the rock.
Greywolf
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: An Observation |
14 Aug 2006 02:58:40 PM |
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"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:12dvnr8plul1g52@corp.supernews.com...
Theists are fond of using the 'pocket-watch in the desert' illustration to
imply that the universe had to have been 'designed' and 'manufactured' by
a brilliant ID'er.
Well let's switch objects. Let's substitute a nice-sized rock in place of
the pocket-watch. All of a sudden the idea of a brilliant ID'er loses a
lotta 'steam'. Does it not?
One other related observation: If you pick up the watch and examine it,
you may discover the name of the 'designer', who the 'manufacturer' was,
and perhaps where it was 'made'. Try that with the rock.
But the fundies believe the whole universe is designed, so the argument is
really this:
You are a watch, walking along a beach made of watches, enjoying the ebb and
flow of the ocean of watches, and the clockwork sky with its fluffy watches.
Suddenly you notice a watch at your feet and exclaim "Oh look! A watch!"
The fact that they think the watch is noteworthy is that they DON'T really
believe the universe is designed. The argument come out and says that the
watch is fundamentally different from the beach, and that difference is that
the watch is designed, and the beach ISN'T!
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
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| User: "wcb" |
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| Title: Re: An Observation |
13 Aug 2006 01:16:18 AM |
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Greywolf wrote:
Theists are fond of using the 'pocket-watch in the desert' illustration to
imply that the universe had to have been 'designed' and 'manufactured' by
a brilliant ID'er.
Well let's switch objects. Let's substitute a nice-sized rock in place of
the pocket-watch. All of a sudden the idea of a brilliant ID'er loses a
lotta 'steam'. Does it not?
One other related observation: If you pick up the watch and examine it,
you may discover the name of the 'designer', who the 'manufacturer' was,
and perhaps where it was 'made'. Try that with the rock.
Greywolf
Even a small child knows a watch is man
made item and a leaf or a shell is not.
This is not rocket science
--
"The world holds two classes of men -- intelligent
men without religion, and religious men without
intelligence".
- Abu'l-Ala-Al-Ma'arri (973-1057; Syrian poet)
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "Richo" |
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| Title: Re: An Observation |
13 Aug 2006 09:35:48 PM |
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Greywolf wrote:
Theists are fond of using the 'pocket-watch in the desert' illustration to
imply that the universe had to have been 'designed' and 'manufactured' by a
brilliant ID'er.
Well let's switch objects. Let's substitute a nice-sized rock in place of
the pocket-watch. All of a sudden the idea of a brilliant ID'er loses a
lotta 'steam'. Does it not?
One other related observation: If you pick up the watch and examine it, you
may discover the name of the 'designer', who the 'manufacturer' was, and
perhaps where it was 'made'. Try that with the rock.
Greywolf
Check out my favourite reply to the watchmaker argument
http://www.jhuger.com/watchmaker
Mark.
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| User: "Enkidu" |
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| Title: Re: An Observation |
13 Aug 2006 09:52:32 PM |
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"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in
news:1155522948.686050.134420@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
Greywolf wrote:
Theists are fond of using the 'pocket-watch in the desert'
illustration to imply that the universe had to have been 'designed'
and 'manufactured' by a brilliant ID'er.
Well let's switch objects. Let's substitute a nice-sized rock in
place of the pocket-watch. All of a sudden the idea of a brilliant
ID'er loses a lotta 'steam'. Does it not?
One other related observation: If you pick up the watch and examine
it, you may discover the name of the 'designer', who the
'manufacturer' was, and perhaps where it was 'made'. Try that with
the rock.
Greywolf
Check out my favourite reply to the watchmaker argument
http://www.jhuger.com/watchmaker
Mark.
That is good. Thanks.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
http://www.thoughts.leaddogs.org/
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
"So what do we do if we get bitten by something deadly, then?"
He blinked at me as if I was stupid.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: An Observation |
13 Aug 2006 10:43:31 PM |
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Enkidu wrote:
"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in
news:1155522948.686050.134420@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
Check out my favourite reply to the watchmaker argument
http://www.jhuger.com/watchmaker
That is good. Thanks.
Seconded.
The short answer reply to the watchmaker argument is
the "OK, so who made the watchmaker?" bit. I've
never gotten a good response when I ask this question,
but I have had people get grumpy at me for asking it.
--
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: An Observation |
14 Aug 2006 12:27:57 AM |
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In article <1155522948.686050.134420@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote:
Greywolf wrote:
Theists are fond of using the 'pocket-watch in the desert' illustration to
imply that the universe had to have been 'designed' and 'manufactured' by a
brilliant ID'er.
Well let's switch objects. Let's substitute a nice-sized rock in place of
the pocket-watch. All of a sudden the idea of a brilliant ID'er loses a
lotta 'steam'. Does it not?
One other related observation: If you pick up the watch and examine it, you
may discover the name of the 'designer', who the 'manufacturer' was, and
perhaps where it was 'made'. Try that with the rock.
Greywolf
Check out my favourite reply to the watchmaker argument
http://www.jhuger.com/watchmaker
Mark.
That's a nice one.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: An Observation |
14 Aug 2006 01:31:37 AM |
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In article <12dvnr8plul1g52@corp.supernews.com>,
"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote:
Theists are fond of using the 'pocket-watch in the desert' illustration to
imply that the universe had to have been 'designed' and 'manufactured' by a
brilliant ID'er.
Well let's switch objects. Let's substitute a nice-sized rock in place of
the pocket-watch. All of a sudden the idea of a brilliant ID'er loses a
lotta 'steam'. Does it not?
One other related observation: If you pick up the watch and examine it, you
may discover the name of the 'designer', who the 'manufacturer' was, and
perhaps where it was 'made'. Try that with the rock.
Greywolf
I would substitute something more complicated than a watch, a living
organism. Suppose our 'traveler' or 'Martian' or whatever encountered a
human child. If the 'Martian' were ignorant of terrestrial biology, he
might ask "Where did this child come from"?
Well, the answer is obvious to us. Nine months before that child was
born, the Mommy and daddy got together and did what mommies and daddies
often do. Sperm met egg, cells started dividing, a blastocyst was
formed, then an embryo, then a fetus. Genes involved in development
switched on and off, tissue grew, bones, muscle, nervous system, organs,
eyes, brain, etc. When the process was completed, a fully formed human
child was expelled from the womb.
How was this process carried out? Solely by natural means. Many of the
processes involved in embryonic development are well known, some are
still being studied. No evidence of intervention by gods, angels,
demons, or any other supernatural forces has been reported.
The child was formed by totally natural processes. Yet, even one of the
cells from the child's finger is many times more complicated than a
watch. The point is that extremely complicated things can develop by
natural means alone, without human or, in the lack of evidence, divine
intervention. And as science has shown, the same can be said about the
formation of other species, evolution, the formation of the Earth and
solar system, and the universe itself. Unless evidence can be shown for
supernatural intervention, I see no reason to believe in it.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
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