Angels, Our Best Friends: Interview With Leading Angelologist



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "Sound of Trumpet"
Date: 09 Jun 2006 03:39:35 PM
Object: Angels, Our Best Friends: Interview With Leading Angelologist
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1645911/posts
Angels, Our Best Friends
Zenit News Agency ^ | June 8, 2006
Posted on 06/08/2006 5:10:01 PM PDT by NYer
Interview With Angelologist Father M. Stanzione
ROME, JUNE 8, 2006 (Zenit.org).- There is a lack of education about
angels, especially among young Christians, and other groups take
advantage of this vacuum, warns an expert on angelology.
Father Marcello Stanzione, a priest at the Abbey of Santa Maria La Nova
in Campagna, Italy, and author of numerous essays and books on
angelology, spoke with ZENIT about the modern perception of angels.
In 2002, Father Stanzione refounded the Catholic association Militia of
St. Michael the Archangel, which organizes an annual
theological-pastoral meeting on angels. The second annual meeting was
held June 1-2 with the theme "The Return of the Angels Today, Between
Devotion and Mystification."
Q: What do angels represent for the Catholic faith and why are they the
object of more attention by other groups and religious movements than
by Christians?
Father Stanzione: Sadly, the catechesis on evangelization has been
somewhat lacking on this point of the world's knowledge of angels.
Others have taken advantage of the vacuum that has been created.
What is central in theology is the doctrine on God, the Holy Trinity,
and Jesus Christ. But the angels are not useless or superfluous
realities, because they are part of God's revelation.
Angels are creatures as we are, with an ontological difference. We are
born and die; angels do not die and have been given to us by God to
keep us company. The angels are an important complement in the creation
of the body; they are human beings' best friends.
A theologian has written that the angels are servants of God, and they
make themselves servants of those who make themselves God's servants.
Some maintain that Jesus Christ, being the only mediator, does not need
angels. In fact, in the Acts of the Apostles, the history of the early
Church makes evident the fundamental role of the angels. We can say
that Jesus Christ is the only mediator and the angels collaborate in
Jesus Christ's mediation.
The decline in attention and veneration of the angels in the last 50
years is due to a kind of secularization, influenced by a Protestant
deviation, which criticizes veneration of the Virgin, saints and
angels. There has been no clear evangelization on the nature and role
of angels and there is some confusion even among Catholics.
I have written and published several texts of Christian prayers to
angels to avoid catechists also believing and using ambiguous texts
circulating in bookstores.
Several of these ambiguous texts are reviewed by Catholic magazines
without making any critical observation. They are essays that are based
on astrology, on the 365 degrees of the zodiac, and they hold that
there is a protector angel every five degrees, so that those born in
those five degrees have that protector angel.
It is a kind of white magic. I have met several Church people who
confused Catholic devotion with these rites. However, it would be
enough to enter a bookstore to find in the esoteric section some 30-40
titles on the angels. This indicates the great confusion that exists.
There are few Catholic authors who write orthodox texts on the angels.
Q: Has the intercession of angels before the Lord been forgotten by
Catholics?
Father Stanzione: The problem exists. For some people it is comfortable
to use the angels to falsify the relationship with Jesus Christ and
with ecclesiastical institutions.
In this way, the discourse of the Ten Commandments and of morality is
also falsified. It is a religion a la carte, with angels who serve to
help one find a fianc=E9 or parking place.
In sum, a trivial, magic use is made of them. Instead, angels have
great dignity; even the simplest angel is much more intelligent and
powerful than a human being.
Evident is the lack of education of the new generations in devotion and
relationship with the angels. I have been concerned with this question
for 15 years, and in this endeavor of education I am appreciated and
supported by my bishop.
Q: Were angels created before man? What happened with Lucifer?
Father Stanzione: There is an ongoing debate on the birth of the
angels, in the sense that some hold that the angels were created before
men, and others that they were created contemporaneously with men.
In regard to Lucifer, it is proof that God does not impose faith and
does not want to be loved by force but allows freedom of choice.
It must be specified that there is no dualism, in the sense that
Lucifer is not God's antagonist. Lucifer is the Archangel Michael's
antagonist because God does not lower himself to combat Lucifer, but
sends Michael.
Q: What is the purpose of the congress you organize annually?
Father Stanzione: Every year, at the beginning of June, we hold a
meeting on the angels. Last year we reflected on the figure of St.
Michael. This year we are discussing the angels today, between devotion
and mystification. Next year we will reflect on the relationship
between the angels and saints.
In this way we want to fill a gap and overcome the prejudice that a
discussion about angels is not worthy of theological debate. We give
our congresses a theological and above all a pastoral focus.
Q: Is it plausible and Christian to think that each one of us has a
guardian angel?
Father Stanzione: Whoever does not believe in the existence of the
guardian angel is outside the doctrine of the faith. Each person has an
angel as a good pastor. The Catechism of the Catholic Church also says
it.
One cannot say that one believes in God, in the Holy Spirit, in the
Virgin, without believing in the angels.
We do not see angels except in the history of the Bible and the history
of the Church. Many saints had frequent contacts with angels; they
experienced a relationship. Different mystics speak about the
relationship with angels.
I think the time is ripe for the creation of courses on angelology and
demonology in theological faculties.
.

User: "Phÿltêr"

Title: Re: Angels, Our Best Friends: Interview With Leading Angelologist 10 Jun 2006 12:25:18 AM
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@fastmail.fm> had me ROTFL with:
news:1149885575.505962.27970@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1645911/posts


Angels, Our Best Friends

Well THAT's good news!! We NEED them to battle with the fierce Uruk-hai, to
bring peace to middle earth.
--
Phÿltêr
Alt.Atheism #1938
Plonked by Fred Stone 17/03/2006
Denizen of Darkness #44 & AFJC Antipodean Attaché
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com
.

User: "Midjis"

Title: Re: Angels, Our Best Friends: Interview With Leading Angelologist 09 Jun 2006 07:50:22 PM
An 'angelologist', no less. I've seen people come up with some flimsy
excuses to avoid an honest day's work, but that's one of the best yet.
.
User: "Michael Gray"

Title: Re: Angels, Our Best Friends: Interview With Leading Angelologist 09 Jun 2006 11:57:42 PM
On Fri, 09 Jun 2006 19:50:22 -0500, Midjis <midwinter_m@hotmail.co.uk>
wrote:
- Refer: <Xns97DE13F16A129NVEPNAJJJDDMPZICXFBL@216.196.109.145>

An 'angelologist', no less. I've seen people come up with some flimsy
excuses to avoid an honest day's work, but that's one of the best yet.

It's considerably less harmful than "Bishop".
--
.
User: "Midjis"

Title: Re: Angels, Our Best Friends: Interview With Leading Angelologist 10 Jun 2006 03:29:54 AM
Michael Gray <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:

An 'angelologist', no less. I've seen people come up with some flimsy
excuses to avoid an honest day's work, but that's one of the best yet.


It's considerably less harmful than "Bishop".

If you say so. Not sure I can see much difference, myself.
.
User: "Michael Gray"

Title: Re: Angels, Our Best Friends: Interview With Leading Angelologist 10 Jun 2006 04:33:13 AM
On Sat, 10 Jun 2006 03:29:54 -0500, Midjis <midwinter_m@hotmail.co.uk>
wrote:
- Refer: <Xns97DE61DBD848ENVEPNAJJJDDMPZICXFBL@216.196.109.145>

Michael Gray <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:

An 'angelologist', no less. I've seen people come up with some flimsy
excuses to avoid an honest day's work, but that's one of the best yet.


It's considerably less harmful than "Bishop".


If you say so. Not sure I can see much difference, myself.

I have yet to hear of an Angelologist harbouring, aiding and abetting
criminal paedophile rapists.
--
.
User: "Midjis"

Title: Re: Angels, Our Best Friends: Interview With Leading Angelologist 10 Jun 2006 06:16:48 AM
Michael Gray <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:

If you say so. Not sure I can see much difference, myself.


I have yet to hear of an Angelologist harbouring, aiding and abetting
criminal paedophile rapists.

And that's part of the role requirement for a bishop, is it?
Or are you just making lazy generalisations?
.
User: "Michael Gray"

Title: Re: Angels, Our Best Friends: Interview With Leading Angelologist 10 Jun 2006 07:21:09 AM
On Sat, 10 Jun 2006 06:16:48 -0500, Midjis <midwinter_m@hotmail.co.uk>
wrote:
- Refer: <Xns97DE7E2846935NVEPNAJJJDDMPZICXFBL@216.196.109.145>

Michael Gray <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:

If you say so. Not sure I can see much difference, myself.


I have yet to hear of an Angelologist harbouring, aiding and abetting
criminal paedophile rapists.


And that's part of the role requirement for a bishop, is it?

Straw man.
Is it the role requirement of a politician to lie?
No. But the behaviour is overwhelmingly statistically significant.

Or are you just making lazy generalisations?

Name an Angelogist who is guilty of this crime.
The generalization is statistically valid.
Or are you indulging in lazy rhetoric, in order to avoid confronting a
very real issue?
--
.
User: "Midjis"

Title: Re: Angels, Our Best Friends: Interview With Leading Angelologist 10 Jun 2006 08:54:11 AM
Michael Gray <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:

If you say so. Not sure I can see much difference, myself.


I have yet to hear of an Angelologist harbouring, aiding and abetting
criminal paedophile rapists.


And that's part of the role requirement for a bishop, is it?


Straw man.
Is it the role requirement of a politician to lie?
No. But the behaviour is overwhelmingly statistically significant.

It may be - but that doesn't make it just to say that politician = liar.
We all say it, of course, but in reality it is an unfair generalisation.

Name an Angelogist who is guilty of this crime.

'Angelologist', you said, was considerably less harmful than 'bishop' -
where I now see that you had in mind a specific issue that doesn't relate
to the point being made. As I said, the harbouring and abetting of
paedophiles is not a role requirement for a bishop.
After all, if we are judging on the fact that some bishops are guilty in
this way, so are some teachers, some police officers, some doctors.
You might as well have responded, "it's considerably less harmful than
'teacher'", for how relevant the comment was. So why didn't you?
This crime is not relevant to what I said. You have shoehorned it into a
conversation that wasn't dealing with it. The point of the comment I
made was to say that I didn't think that 'angelologist' was real work -
and I certainly don't believe it's worthy of the implication of expertise
that tends to come with '-ologist'.

The generalization is statistically valid.

No assumption of guilt is statistically valid. That's not how the legal
system works in a free country.
.
User: "Michael Gray"

Title: Re: Angels, Our Best Friends: Interview With Leading Angelologist 10 Jun 2006 07:54:39 PM
On Sat, 10 Jun 2006 08:54:11 -0500, Midjis <midwinter_m@hotmail.co.uk>
wrote:
- Refer: <Xns97DE98D6777F6NVEPNAJJJDDMPZICXFBL@216.196.109.145>

Michael Gray <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:

If you say so. Not sure I can see much difference, myself.


I have yet to hear of an Angelologist harbouring, aiding and abetting
criminal paedophile rapists.


And that's part of the role requirement for a bishop, is it?


Straw man.
Is it the role requirement of a politician to lie?
No. But the behaviour is overwhelmingly statistically significant.


It may be - but that doesn't make it just to say that politician = liar.
We all say it, of course, but in reality it is an unfair generalisation.

It was a quick comment on usenet, not a proposition from Wittgenstein.

Name an Angelogist who is guilty of this crime.


'Angelologist', you said, was considerably less harmful than 'bishop' -
where I now see that you had in mind a specific issue that doesn't relate
to the point being made. As I said, the harbouring and abetting of
paedophiles is not a role requirement for a bishop.

After all, if we are judging on the fact that some bishops are guilty in
this way, so are some teachers, some police officers, some doctors.

You might as well have responded, "it's considerably less harmful than
'teacher'", for how relevant the comment was. So why didn't you?

Can you not see the intimate coonection between an professional
angelologist and a professional theologist???
If you cannot, there is not much hope of rational communication.
Why "teacher"?
Bishps and Angelologists both base their entire careers on exploiting
peoples' delusional thinking.
What have you got against teachers?

This crime is not relevant to what I said. You have shoehorned it into a
conversation that wasn't dealing with it. The point of the comment I
made was to say that I didn't think that 'angelologist' was real work -
and I certainly don't believe it's worthy of the implication of expertise
that tends to come with '-ologist'.

The generalization is statistically valid.


No assumption of guilt is statistically valid. That's not how the legal
system works in a free country.

This is not a court of law, Skippy.
This is usenet.
Get used to people making valid statistically based assumptions.
--
Michael Gray.
Founding Member and Doorman,
Earthquack's 666 Club.
EAC Vice President of Vice
.
User: "Midjis"

Title: Re: Angels, Our Best Friends: Interview With Leading Angelologist 11 Jun 2006 03:34:30 AM
Michael Gray <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:

It may be - but that doesn't make it just to say that politician =
liar. We all say it, of course, but in reality it is an unfair
generalisation.


It was a quick comment on usenet, not a proposition from Wittgenstein.

So? Do you think that means I can't disagree with you?

After all, if we are judging on the fact that some bishops are guilty
in this way, so are some teachers, some police officers, some doctors.

You might as well have responded, "it's considerably less harmful than
'teacher'", for how relevant the comment was. So why didn't you?


Can you not see the intimate coonection between an professional
angelologist and a professional theologist???

Only that neither one has a proper job. Which is why I said I can't see
much difference. No mention of paedophilia at all, because while the
issue's an important one, it wasn't relevant to the point I'm making.

If you cannot, there is not much hope of rational communication.

Like you said, this is Usenet. There's not much hope of rational
communication anyway.

Why "teacher"?

Why not? They have their share of bad apples, same as anyone else.
Replace 'teacher' with any profession you like and my point stands:
you're assuming the clergy - of all denominations - are all paedophiles
or apologists for paedophiles simply on the basis that some undoubtedly
are.

Bishps and Angelologists both base their entire careers on exploiting
peoples' delusional thinking.

That's right.

What have you got against teachers?

Not a thing. I have the greatest respect for them.

No assumption of guilt is statistically valid. That's not how the
legal system works in a free country.


This is not a court of law, Skippy.
This is usenet.
Get used to people making valid statistically based assumptions.

You seem to have this idea that because this is Usenet I don't have the
right to call you on stupid and lazy generalisations. Well, I guess
you'd better get used to that, hadn't you, "Skippy"?
.









User: "foolsrushin."

Title: Re: Angels, Our Best Friends: Interview With Leading Angelologist 09 Jun 2006 06:50:32 PM
And I thought this was going to be an essay on geometry!
--
'foolsrushin.'
Sound of Trumpet wrote:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1645911/posts


Angels, Our Best Friends


Zenit News Agency ^ | June 8, 2006


Posted on 06/08/2006 5:10:01 PM PDT by NYer


Interview With Angelologist Father M. Stanzione




ROME, JUNE 8, 2006 (Zenit.org).- There is a lack of education about
angels, especially among young Christians, and other groups take
advantage of this vacuum, warns an expert on angelology.

Father Marcello Stanzione, a priest at the Abbey of Santa Maria La Nova
in Campagna, Italy, and author of numerous essays and books on
angelology, spoke with ZENIT about the modern perception of angels.

In 2002, Father Stanzione refounded the Catholic association Militia of
St. Michael the Archangel, which organizes an annual
theological-pastoral meeting on angels. The second annual meeting was
held June 1-2 with the theme "The Return of the Angels Today, Between
Devotion and Mystification."

Q: What do angels represent for the Catholic faith and why are they the
object of more attention by other groups and religious movements than
by Christians?

Father Stanzione: Sadly, the catechesis on evangelization has been
somewhat lacking on this point of the world's knowledge of angels.
Others have taken advantage of the vacuum that has been created.

What is central in theology is the doctrine on God, the Holy Trinity,
and Jesus Christ. But the angels are not useless or superfluous
realities, because they are part of God's revelation.

Angels are creatures as we are, with an ontological difference. We are
born and die; angels do not die and have been given to us by God to
keep us company. The angels are an important complement in the creation
of the body; they are human beings' best friends.

A theologian has written that the angels are servants of God, and they
make themselves servants of those who make themselves God's servants.

Some maintain that Jesus Christ, being the only mediator, does not need
angels. In fact, in the Acts of the Apostles, the history of the early
Church makes evident the fundamental role of the angels. We can say
that Jesus Christ is the only mediator and the angels collaborate in
Jesus Christ's mediation.

The decline in attention and veneration of the angels in the last 50
years is due to a kind of secularization, influenced by a Protestant
deviation, which criticizes veneration of the Virgin, saints and
angels. There has been no clear evangelization on the nature and role
of angels and there is some confusion even among Catholics.

I have written and published several texts of Christian prayers to
angels to avoid catechists also believing and using ambiguous texts
circulating in bookstores.

Several of these ambiguous texts are reviewed by Catholic magazines
without making any critical observation. They are essays that are based
on astrology, on the 365 degrees of the zodiac, and they hold that
there is a protector angel every five degrees, so that those born in
those five degrees have that protector angel.

It is a kind of white magic. I have met several Church people who
confused Catholic devotion with these rites. However, it would be
enough to enter a bookstore to find in the esoteric section some 30-40
titles on the angels. This indicates the great confusion that exists.
There are few Catholic authors who write orthodox texts on the angels.

Q: Has the intercession of angels before the Lord been forgotten by
Catholics?

Father Stanzione: The problem exists. For some people it is comfortable
to use the angels to falsify the relationship with Jesus Christ and
with ecclesiastical institutions.

In this way, the discourse of the Ten Commandments and of morality is
also falsified. It is a religion a la carte, with angels who serve to
help one find a fianc=E9 or parking place.

In sum, a trivial, magic use is made of them. Instead, angels have
great dignity; even the simplest angel is much more intelligent and
powerful than a human being.

Evident is the lack of education of the new generations in devotion and
relationship with the angels. I have been concerned with this question
for 15 years, and in this endeavor of education I am appreciated and
supported by my bishop.

Q: Were angels created before man? What happened with Lucifer?

Father Stanzione: There is an ongoing debate on the birth of the
angels, in the sense that some hold that the angels were created before
men, and others that they were created contemporaneously with men.

In regard to Lucifer, it is proof that God does not impose faith and
does not want to be loved by force but allows freedom of choice.

It must be specified that there is no dualism, in the sense that
Lucifer is not God's antagonist. Lucifer is the Archangel Michael's
antagonist because God does not lower himself to combat Lucifer, but
sends Michael.

Q: What is the purpose of the congress you organize annually?

Father Stanzione: Every year, at the beginning of June, we hold a
meeting on the angels. Last year we reflected on the figure of St.
Michael. This year we are discussing the angels today, between devotion
and mystification. Next year we will reflect on the relationship
between the angels and saints.

In this way we want to fill a gap and overcome the prejudice that a
discussion about angels is not worthy of theological debate. We give
our congresses a theological and above all a pastoral focus.

Q: Is it plausible and Christian to think that each one of us has a
guardian angel?

Father Stanzione: Whoever does not believe in the existence of the
guardian angel is outside the doctrine of the faith. Each person has an
angel as a good pastor. The Catechism of the Catholic Church also says
it.

One cannot say that one believes in God, in the Holy Spirit, in the
Virgin, without believing in the angels.

We do not see angels except in the history of the Bible and the history
of the Church. Many saints had frequent contacts with angels; they
experienced a relationship. Different mystics speak about the
relationship with angels.

I think the time is ripe for the creation of courses on angelology and
demonology in theological faculties.

.
User: "Michelle Malkin"

Title: Re: Angels, Our Best Friends: Interview With Leading Angelologist 09 Jun 2006 11:35:34 PM
"'foolsrushin.'" <dolomite8@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1149897032.306316.243860@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
And I thought this was going to be an essay on geometry!
--
'foolsrushin.'
Sound of Trumpet wrote:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1645911/posts


Angels, Our Best Friends


Zenit News Agency ^ | June 8, 2006


Posted on 06/08/2006 5:10:01 PM PDT by NYer


Interview With Angelologist Father M. Stanzione




ROME, JUNE 8, 2006 (Zenit.org).- There is a lack of education about
angels, especially among young Christians, and other groups take
advantage of this vacuum, warns an expert on angelology.

Sounds like an Onion article.


Father Marcello Stanzione, a priest at the Abbey of Santa Maria La Nova
in Campagna, Italy, and author of numerous essays and books on
angelology, spoke with ZENIT about the modern perception of angels.

In 2002, Father Stanzione refounded the Catholic association Militia of
St. Michael the Archangel, which organizes an annual
theological-pastoral meeting on angels. The second annual meeting was
held June 1-2 with the theme "The Return of the Angels Today, Between
Devotion and Mystification."

Q: What do angels represent for the Catholic faith and why are they the
object of more attention by other groups and religious movements than
by Christians?

Father Stanzione: Sadly, the catechesis on evangelization has been
somewhat lacking on this point of the world's knowledge of angels.
Others have taken advantage of the vacuum that has been created.

What is central in theology is the doctrine on God, the Holy Trinity,
and Jesus Christ. But the angels are not useless or superfluous
realities, because they are part of God's revelation.

Angels are creatures as we are, with an ontological difference. We are
born and die; angels do not die and have been given to us by God to
keep us company. The angels are an important complement in the creation
of the body; they are human beings' best friends.

A theologian has written that the angels are servants of God, and they
make themselves servants of those who make themselves God's servants.

Some maintain that Jesus Christ, being the only mediator, does not need
angels. In fact, in the Acts of the Apostles, the history of the early
Church makes evident the fundamental role of the angels. We can say
that Jesus Christ is the only mediator and the angels collaborate in
Jesus Christ's mediation.

The decline in attention and veneration of the angels in the last 50
years is due to a kind of secularization, influenced by a Protestant
deviation, which criticizes veneration of the Virgin, saints and
angels. There has been no clear evangelization on the nature and role
of angels and there is some confusion even among Catholics.

I have written and published several texts of Christian prayers to
angels to avoid catechists also believing and using ambiguous texts
circulating in bookstores.

Several of these ambiguous texts are reviewed by Catholic magazines
without making any critical observation. They are essays that are based
on astrology, on the 365 degrees of the zodiac, and they hold that
there is a protector angel every five degrees, so that those born in
those five degrees have that protector angel.

It is a kind of white magic. I have met several Church people who
confused Catholic devotion with these rites. However, it would be
enough to enter a bookstore to find in the esoteric section some 30-40
titles on the angels. This indicates the great confusion that exists.
There are few Catholic authors who write orthodox texts on the angels.

Q: Has the intercession of angels before the Lord been forgotten by
Catholics?

Father Stanzione: The problem exists. For some people it is comfortable
to use the angels to falsify the relationship with Jesus Christ and
with ecclesiastical institutions.

In this way, the discourse of the Ten Commandments and of morality is
also falsified. It is a religion a la carte, with angels who serve to
help one find a fiancé or parking place.

In sum, a trivial, magic use is made of them. Instead, angels have
great dignity; even the simplest angel is much more intelligent and
powerful than a human being.

Evident is the lack of education of the new generations in devotion and
relationship with the angels. I have been concerned with this question
for 15 years, and in this endeavor of education I am appreciated and
supported by my bishop.

Q: Were angels created before man? What happened with Lucifer?

Father Stanzione: There is an ongoing debate on the birth of the
angels, in the sense that some hold that the angels were created before
men, and others that they were created contemporaneously with men.

In regard to Lucifer, it is proof that God does not impose faith and
does not want to be loved by force but allows freedom of choice.

It must be specified that there is no dualism, in the sense that
Lucifer is not God's antagonist. Lucifer is the Archangel Michael's
antagonist because God does not lower himself to combat Lucifer, but
sends Michael.

Q: What is the purpose of the congress you organize annually?

Father Stanzione: Every year, at the beginning of June, we hold a
meeting on the angels. Last year we reflected on the figure of St.
Michael. This year we are discussing the angels today, between devotion
and mystification. Next year we will reflect on the relationship
between the angels and saints.

In this way we want to fill a gap and overcome the prejudice that a
discussion about angels is not worthy of theological debate. We give
our congresses a theological and above all a pastoral focus.

Q: Is it plausible and Christian to think that each one of us has a
guardian angel?

Father Stanzione: Whoever does not believe in the existence of the
guardian angel is outside the doctrine of the faith. Each person has an
angel as a good pastor. The Catechism of the Catholic Church also says
it.

One cannot say that one believes in God, in the Holy Spirit, in the
Virgin, without believing in the angels.

We do not see angels except in the history of the Bible and the history
of the Church. Many saints had frequent contacts with angels; they
experienced a relationship. Different mystics speak about the
relationship with angels.

I think the time is ripe for the creation of courses on angelology and
demonology in theological faculties.

How sad. Reminds me of all the time Sir Arthur
Conan Doyle wasted on fairies. The little ones with
wings, that is.
--
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
Michelle Malkin (Mickey) aa list#1
BAAWA Knight & Bible Thumper Thumper
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
.


User: "raven1"

Title: Re: Angels, Our Best Friends: Interview With Leading Angelologist 09 Jun 2006 04:21:55 PM
On 9 Jun 2006 13:39:35 -0700, "Sound of Trumpet"
<soundoftrumpet@fastmail.fm> wrote:

ROME, JUNE 8, 2006 (Zenit.org).- There is a lack of education about
angels, especially among young Christians, and other groups take
advantage of this vacuum, warns an expert on angelology.

Do you believe in goblins, too?
--
"O Sybilli, si ergo
Fortibus es in ero
O Nobili! Themis trux
Sivat sinem? Causen Dux"
.
User: "Michael Gray"

Title: Re: Angels, Our Best Friends: Interview With Leading Angelologist 09 Jun 2006 08:31:29 PM
On Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:21:55 -0400, raven1
<quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote:
- Refer: <3ipj82hifbujlaiae10gvoki9mqqi44lad@4ax.com>

On 9 Jun 2006 13:39:35 -0700, "Sound of Trumpet"
<soundoftrumpet@fastmail.fm> wrote:

ROME, JUNE 8, 2006 (Zenit.org).- There is a lack of education about
angels, especially among young Christians, and other groups take
advantage of this vacuum, warns an expert on angelology.


Do you believe in goblins, too?

Now you are just being silly!
Of course it *does*.
--
.


User: "Mark K. Bilbo"

Title: Re: Angels, Our Best Friends: Interview With Leading Angelologist 10 Jun 2006 07:17:07 AM
Previously, on alt.atheism, Sound of Trumpet in episode
<1149885575.505962.27970@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>...

Angels, Our Best Friends

Yeah, I had imaginary friends.
When I was FIVE.
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection." [Jarvis DeBerry]
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
.

User: ""

Title: Re: Angels, Our Best Friends: Interview With Leading Angelologist 16 Jun 2006 11:30:24 AM
Sound of Trumpet wrote:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1645911/posts


Angels, Our Best Friends


Zenit News Agency ^ | June 8, 2006


Posted on 06/08/2006 5:10:01 PM PDT by NYer


Interview With Angelologist Father M. Stanzione




ROME, JUNE 8, 2006 (Zenit.org).- There is a lack of education about
angels, especially among young Christians, and other groups take
advantage of this vacuum, warns an expert on angelology.

Father Marcello Stanzione, a priest at the Abbey of Santa Maria La Nova
in Campagna, Italy, and author of numerous essays and books on
angelology, spoke with ZENIT about the modern perception of angels.

In 2002, Father Stanzione refounded the Catholic association Militia of
St. Michael the Archangel, which organizes an annual
theological-pastoral meeting on angels. The second annual meeting was
held June 1-2 with the theme "The Return of the Angels Today, Between
Devotion and Mystification."

Q: What do angels represent for the Catholic faith and why are they the
object of more attention by other groups and religious movements than
by Christians?

Father Stanzione: Sadly, the catechesis on evangelization has been
somewhat lacking on this point of the world's knowledge of angels.
Others have taken advantage of the vacuum that has been created.

What is central in theology is the doctrine on God, the Holy Trinity,
and Jesus Christ. But the angels are not useless or superfluous
realities, because they are part of God's revelation.

Angels are creatures as we are, with an ontological difference. We are
born and die; angels do not die and have been given to us by God to
keep us company. The angels are an important complement in the creation
of the body; they are human beings' best friends.

A theologian has written that the angels are servants of God, and they
make themselves servants of those who make themselves God's servants.

Some maintain that Jesus Christ, being the only mediator, does not need
angels. In fact, in the Acts of the Apostles, the history of the early
Church makes evident the fundamental role of the angels. We can say
that Jesus Christ is the only mediator and the angels collaborate in
Jesus Christ's mediation.

The decline in attention and veneration of the angels in the last 50
years is due to a kind of secularization, influenced by a Protestant
deviation, which criticizes veneration of the Virgin, saints and
angels. There has been no clear evangelization on the nature and role
of angels and there is some confusion even among Catholics.

I have written and published several texts of Christian prayers to
angels to avoid catechists also believing and using ambiguous texts
circulating in bookstores.

Several of these ambiguous texts are reviewed by Catholic magazines
without making any critical observation. They are essays that are based
on astrology, on the 365 degrees of the zodiac, and they hold that
there is a protector angel every five degrees, so that those born in
those five degrees have that protector angel.

It is a kind of white magic. I have met several Church people who
confused Catholic devotion with these rites. However, it would be
enough to enter a bookstore to find in the esoteric section some 30-40
titles on the angels. This indicates the great confusion that exists.
There are few Catholic authors who write orthodox texts on the angels.

Q: Has the intercession of angels before the Lord been forgotten by
Catholics?

Father Stanzione: The problem exists. For some people it is comfortable
to use the angels to falsify the relationship with Jesus Christ and
with ecclesiastical institutions.

In this way, the discourse of the Ten Commandments and of morality is
also falsified. It is a religion a la carte, with angels who serve to
help one find a fianc=C3=A9 or parking place.

In sum, a trivial, magic use is made of them. Instead, angels have
great dignity; even the simplest angel is much more intelligent and
powerful than a human being.

Evident is the lack of education of the new generations in devotion and
relationship with the angels. I have been concerned with this question
for 15 years, and in this endeavor of education I am appreciated and
supported by my bishop.

Q: Were angels created before man? What happened with Lucifer?

Father Stanzione: There is an ongoing debate on the birth of the
angels, in the sense that some hold that the angels were created before
men, and others that they were created contemporaneously with men.

In regard to Lucifer, it is proof that God does not impose faith and
does not want to be loved by force but allows freedom of choice.

It must be specified that there is no dualism, in the sense that
Lucifer is not God's antagonist. Lucifer is the Archangel Michael's
antagonist because God does not lower himself to combat Lucifer, but
sends Michael.

Q: What is the purpose of the congress you organize annually?

Father Stanzione: Every year, at the beginning of June, we hold a
meeting on the angels. Last year we reflected on the figure of St.
Michael. This year we are discussing the angels today, between devotion
and mystification. Next year we will reflect on the relationship
between the angels and saints.

In this way we want to fill a gap and overcome the prejudice that a
discussion about angels is not worthy of theological debate. We give
our congresses a theological and above all a pastoral focus.

Q: Is it plausible and Christian to think that each one of us has a
guardian angel?

Father Stanzione: Whoever does not believe in the existence of the
guardian angel is outside the doctrine of the faith. Each person has an
angel as a good pastor. The Catechism of the Catholic Church also says
it.

One cannot say that one believes in God, in the Holy Spirit, in the
Virgin, without believing in the angels.

We do not see angels except in the history of the Bible and the history
of the Church. Many saints had frequent contacts with angels; they
experienced a relationship. Different mystics speak about the
relationship with angels.

I think the time is ripe for the creation of courses on angelology and
demonology in theological faculties.

I have always wondered why Lucifer means lightbringer. Isn't bringing
light a good thing?
http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/world/christ/xt-ibel2.htm
The word Lucifer is found in only one place in the Bible -- Isaiah
14:12 -- but only in the King James and related versions: "How art thou
fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! . . ." The New
Revised Standard Version translates the same passage as "How you are
fallen from heaven, O Day Star, Son of Dawn!" In other translations we
find: "O shining star of the dawn!" (Moffatt) or "O morning-star, son
of the dawn!" (Hebrew Bible). The King James Version is based on the
Vulgate, the Latin translation of Jerome. Jerome translated the Hebrew
helel (bright or brilliant one) as "lucifer," which was a reasonable
Latin equivalent. And yet it is this lucifer, the bright one or
lightbearer, that came to be understood by so many as the name for
Satan, Lord of Darkness.
http://lds-mormon.com/lucifer.shtml
The irony for those who believe that "Lucifer" refers to Satan is that
the same title ('morning star' or 'light-bearer') is used to refer to
Jesus, in 2 Peter 1:19, where the Greek text has exactly the same term:
'phos-phoros' 'light-bearer.' This is also the term used for Jesus in
Revelation 22:16.
Early Christains even had a Saint by the name of Lucifer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Lucifer
Lucifer or Lucifer Calaritanus (d. 370 or 371) was a bishop of Cagliari
in Sardinia and Christian saint known for his passionate opposition to
Arianism.
Arianism was a Christological view held by followers of Arius, a
Christian priest who lived and taught in Alexandria, Egypt, in the
early 4th century. Arius taught that God the Father and the Son were
not co-eternal, seeing the pre-incarnate Jesus as a divine being but
nonetheless created by (and consequently inferior to) the Father at
some point, before which the Son did not exist.
At the Council of Milan in 354 Luficer defended Athanasius , another
strong opponent of Arianism, and he opposed the Arians so powerfully
that they had the Emperor Constantius II (an Arian sympathizer) confine
Lucifer for three days in the palace. While in confinement, Saint
Lucifer argued so strongly with the emperor that he was banished, first
to Palestine and then to Thebes, Egypt. While in exile, he wrote fiery
letters to the emperor that put him in danger of martyrdom.
After the death of Constantius and the accession of Julian the
Apostate, Lucifer was released in 362. However, he would not be
reconciled to former Arians. He consecrated bishop Paulinus, without
license, creating the schism of Meletius. He may have been
excommunicated, as is hinted in the writings of Saint Ambrose and Saint
Augustine and Saint Jerome, who refers to his followers as Luciferians,
a sect that survived in scattered remnants into the early 5th century.
Jerome, in his polemic Altercatio Luciferiani et orthodoxi
("Altercation of the Luciferian and the orthodox"), offers almost all
that is known of Lucifer or the sect.
Lucifer of Cagliari's chief writings, against Arianism and
reconciliation with heresy, include De non conveniendo ***** haereticis,
De regibus apostaticis, and De S. Athanasio.
His feast day in the Catholic Church is May 20. His name demonstrates
that "Lucifer" (meaning "light-bringer") was not yet merely a synonym
of "Satan" in the 4th century. However, hasty references by
enthusiastic 19th century biblical scholars assumed from the name that
the Luciferians were Satanists. Therefore, although his cultus has not
been suppressed nor his canonization reevaluated, he is not often
celebrated or spoken of in the calendar.
For Christians to not know that Lucifer isn't really another name for
Satan and that even an early Church father and saint was named Lucifer
shows Christians don't know much about THEIR OWN faith.
You know another thing that really bugs me. It is when Christians say
that Xmas crosses Christ out of Christmas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X
X is an abbreviation for Christ, as in Xmas (Christmas), X(t)ian
(Christian), and Xianity (Christianity), due to its Greek name.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xmas
The word "Christ" and its compounds, including "Christmas", have been
abbreviated for at least the past 1,000 years, long before the modern
"Xmas" was commonly used. "Christ" was often written as "XP" or "Xt";
there are references in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle as far back as 1021
AD. This X and P arose as the uppercase forms of the Greek letters =CF=87
and =CF=81), used in ancient abbreviations for =CE=A7=CF=81=CE=B9=CF=83=CF=
=84=CE=BF=CF=82 (Greek for
"Christ") (see Labarum), and are still widely seen in many Eastern
Orthodox icons depicting Jesus Christ.
So, X MEANS Christ. It has meant that for 1000 years or more!!!
So my message to Christians is know about your own religion before
criticizing others.
.

User: "Neil Kelsey"

Title: Re: Angels, Our Best Friends: Interview With Leading Angelologist 09 Jun 2006 04:30:27 PM
Sound of Trumpet wrote:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1645911/posts


Angels, Our Best Friends


Zenit News Agency ^ | June 8, 2006


Posted on 06/08/2006 5:10:01 PM PDT by NYer


Interview With Angelologist Father M. Stanzione




ROME, JUNE 8, 2006 (Zenit.org).- There is a lack of education about
angels, especially among young Christians, and other groups take
advantage of this vacuum, warns an expert on angelology.

Father Marcello Stanzione, a priest at the Abbey of Santa Maria La Nova
in Campagna, Italy, and author of numerous essays and books on
angelology, spoke with ZENIT about the modern perception of angels.

In 2002, Father Stanzione refounded the Catholic association Militia of
St. Michael the Archangel, which organizes an annual
theological-pastoral meeting on angels. The second annual meeting was
held June 1-2 with the theme "The Return of the Angels Today, Between
Devotion and Mystification."

Q: What do angels represent for the Catholic faith and why are they the
object of more attention by other groups and religious movements than
by Christians?

Father Stanzione: Sadly, the catechesis on evangelization has been
somewhat lacking on this point of the world's knowledge of angels.
Others have taken advantage of the vacuum that has been created.

What is central in theology is the doctrine on God, the Holy Trinity,
and Jesus Christ. But the angels are not useless or superfluous
realities, because they are part of God's revelation.

Angels are creatures as we are, with an ontological difference. We are
born and die; angels do not die and have been given to us by God to
keep us company. The angels are an important complement in the creation
of the body; they are human beings' best friends.

A theologian has written that the angels are servants of God, and they
make themselves servants of those who make themselves God's servants.

Some maintain that Jesus Christ, being the only mediator, does not need
angels. In fact, in the Acts of the Apostles, the history of the early
Church makes evident the fundamental role of the angels. We can say
that Jesus Christ is the only mediator and the angels collaborate in
Jesus Christ's mediation.

The decline in attention and veneration of the angels in the last 50
years is due to a kind of secularization, influenced by a Protestant
deviation, which criticizes veneration of the Virgin, saints and
angels. There has been no clear evangelization on the nature and role
of angels and there is some confusion even among Catholics.

I have written and published several texts of Christian prayers to
angels to avoid catechists also believing and using ambiguous texts
circulating in bookstores.

Several of these ambiguous texts are reviewed by Catholic magazines
without making any critical observation. They are essays that are based
on astrology, on the 365 degrees of the zodiac, and they hold that
there is a protector angel every five degrees, so that those born in
those five degrees have that protector angel.

It is a kind of white magic. I have met several Church people who
confused Catholic devotion with these rites. However, it would be
enough to enter a bookstore to find in the esoteric section some 30-40
titles on the angels. This indicates the great confusion that exists.
There are few Catholic authors who write orthodox texts on the angels.

Q: Has the intercession of angels before the Lord been forgotten by
Catholics?

Father Stanzione: The problem exists. For some people it is comfortable
to use the angels to falsify the relationship with Jesus Christ and
with ecclesiastical institutions.

In this way, the discourse of the Ten Commandments and of morality is
also falsified. It is a religion a la carte, with angels who serve to
help one find a fianc=E9 or parking place.

In sum, a trivial, magic use is made of them. Instead, angels have
great dignity; even the simplest angel is much more intelligent and
powerful than a human being.

Evident is the lack of education of the new generations in devotion and
relationship with the angels. I have been concerned with this question
for 15 years, and in this endeavor of education I am appreciated and
supported by my bishop.

Q: Were angels created before man? What happened with Lucifer?

Father Stanzione: There is an ongoing debate on the birth of the
angels, in the sense that some hold that the angels were created before
men, and others that they were created contemporaneously with men.

In regard to Lucifer, it is proof that God does not impose faith and
does not want to be loved by force but allows freedom of choice.

It must be specified that there is no dualism, in the sense that
Lucifer is not God's antagonist. Lucifer is the Archangel Michael's
antagonist because God does not lower himself to combat Lucifer, but
sends Michael.

Q: What is the purpose of the congress you organize annually?

Father Stanzione: Every year, at the beginning of June, we hold a
meeting on the angels. Last year we reflected on the figure of St.
Michael. This year we are discussing the angels today, between devotion
and mystification. Next year we will reflect on the relationship
between the angels and saints.

In this way we want to fill a gap and overcome the prejudice that a
discussion about angels is not worthy of theological debate. We give
our congresses a theological and above all a pastoral focus.

Q: Is it plausible and Christian to think that each one of us has a
guardian angel?

Father Stanzione: Whoever does not believe in the existence of the
guardian angel is outside the doctrine of the faith. Each person has an
angel as a good pastor. The Catechism of the Catholic Church also says
it.

One cannot say that one believes in God, in the Holy Spirit, in the
Virgin, without believing in the angels.

We do not see angels except in the history of the Bible and the history
of the Church. Many saints had frequent contacts with angels; they
experienced a relationship. Different mystics speak about the
relationship with angels.

I think the time is ripe for the creation of courses on angelology and
demonology in theological faculties.

And while you're at it, how about Harry Potterology and Easter
Bunnyology. At least you guys might be able to pass those courses.
.

User: ""

Title: Re: Angels, Our Best Friends: Interview With Leading Angelologist 09 Jun 2006 11:43:20 PM
Sound of Trumpet wrote:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1645911/posts


Angels, Our Best Friends

Oh, no they're not!
http://www.comicity.com/eva/eva.htm
-Panama Floyd, Atl.
aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA!
EAC Martian Commander
"..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next."
-Mark Twain
Religious societies are *less* moral than secular ones:
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html
.


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