| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"IKnowHimDoYou" |
| Date: |
05 Jun 2004 09:00:25 PM |
| Object: |
Anger and Weakness |
Anger and Weakness
Some have written that, as a Christian. we must always present our case in
love and I certainly agree with that. However, sometimes real love needs
to take a different tack in order to make the needed change called for.
As an example:
Let us say you are having some health difficulties and you seek a
physician's help. He runs some tests and tells you that you have terminal
cancer. He also tells you that there is no cure and prescibes some pain
killers and advises you to go home and wait for the end. This does not
sound very good so you seek a second opinion. The next physician confirms
the first diagnosis. He tells you that he is an experienced cancer
surgeon. He also tells you that if he could get you on the operating
table right away he might be able to save your life.
Which physician would you prefer or trust with his prognosis?
It is the same with salvation and the gospel. We are not here as
Christians to reform people with love and tenderness. We are here to
rescue the dying and let God regenerate them into new life. This is not a
game of false love trying to tell them to take a pill and all will be
well. That is the beautiful lie that is passed around at the liberal
churches of today with millions going to eternal damnation due to the lack
of the Truth being told. God does not speak with a forked tongue. He
tells us the Truth as it is;
"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life:
He that believeth not the Son shall not see life;
but the wrath of God abideth on him." John 10:10
There remains very little time. Suck it up and get moving. Millions are
going to hell. We must reach as many as possible....that is the real love
of God.
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| User: "torch" |
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| Title: Re: Anger and Weakness |
06 Jun 2004 01:25:43 AM |
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"IKnowHimDoYou" <IKnowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
news:IKnowHim-0506041900250001@pm10-15.kalama.com...
Anger and Weakness
Some have written that, as a Christian. we must always present our case in
love and I certainly agree with that. However, sometimes real love needs
to take a different tack in order to make the needed change called for.
As an example:
Let us say you are having some health difficulties and you seek a
physician's help. He runs some tests and tells you that you have terminal
cancer. He also tells you that there is no cure and prescibes some pain
killers and advises you to go home and wait for the end. This does not
sound very good so you seek a second opinion.
If your analogy really fitted the truth of your religion at this point the
physician would pull out a blowtorch and fry you there and then in his
sugery for questioning his medical opinion.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Anger and Weakness |
05 Jun 2004 09:22:34 PM |
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"IKnowHimDoYou" <IKnowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
news:IKnowHim-0506041900250001@pm10-15.kalama.com...
Anger and Weakness
Some have written that, as a Christian. we must always present our case in
love and I certainly agree with that. However, sometimes real love needs
to take a different tack in order to make the needed change called for.
As an example:
Let us say you are having some health difficulties and you seek a
physician's help. He runs some tests and tells you that you have terminal
cancer. He also tells you that there is no cure and prescibes some pain
killers and advises you to go home and wait for the end. This does not
sound very good so you seek a second opinion. The next physician confirms
the first diagnosis. He tells you that he is an experienced cancer
surgeon. He also tells you that if he could get you on the operating
table right away he might be able to save your life.
Which physician would you prefer or trust with his prognosis?
Both physicians, even though they were doing it just for the money would
make every effort they could to save us.
Your god talks of love, talks of asking and receiving and if it existed does
nothing to save us even though it could.
.
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| User: "Doc Smartass" |
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| Title: Re: Anger and Weakness |
05 Jun 2004 09:16:29 PM |
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(IKnowHimDoYou) wrote in news:IKnowHim-
0506041900250001@pm10-15.kalama.com:
Subject: Anger and Weakness
....are traits of stupid cut-and-paste trolls.
--
Dr. Smartass
BAAWA Knight of Heckling -- a.a. #1939
Dr. Smartass is unnaturally high in carbohydrates, fats, and sodium.
Consult your physician before consuming Dr. Smartass.
Try New "Religion Pockets!" Flaky crust with a tasty ***** center!
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: Anger and Weakness |
06 Jun 2004 12:35:55 AM |
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Great Lord (IKnowHimDoYou), braving the
raging storm, scaled the mighty crag called alt.atheism on Sat, 05 Jun
2004 19:00:25 -0700 and screamed this to the uncaring Gods.
Let us say you are having some health difficulties and you seek a
physician's help. He runs some tests and tells you that you have terminal
cancer. He also tells you that there is no cure and prescibes some pain
killers and advises you to go home and wait for the end. This does not
sound very good so you seek a second opinion. The next physician confirms
the first diagnosis. He tells you that he is an experienced cancer
surgeon. He also tells you that if he could get you on the operating
table right away he might be able to save your life.
Which physician would you prefer or trust with his prognosis?
Depends. I would do my own research, not only on the cancer but on
the doctor. Some oncologists are notorious slash'n'burners who refuse
to admit defeat and torture patients. Also, I would ask quality of
life questions of the surgeon. What will the lasting effects of the
cancer be? The surgury?
After gathering the facts, I'd confer with family and reach a
decision. Any reason I can't consult a third oncologist as a
tiebreaker?
I've answered these questions in my own life when I was diagnosed with
Hodgkin's Disease. They aren't as simplistic as you make them out to
be.
BTW: Surgeons don't make those calls. Oncologists do.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
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| User: "Javier Balkenende" |
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| Title: Re: Anger and Weakness |
06 Jun 2004 02:55:00 AM |
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How do I say "vayanse a la puta madre que los re mil parió" in English???
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| User: "Javier Balkenende" |
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| Title: Re: Anger and Weakness |
06 Jun 2004 12:00:39 AM |
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I think that you don't have very clear what love of God is.
Love is not a face having a smile, it is a stupid person with hypocrisy, a
religious person that think that he is doing what he has to do, but that
don't understand the love of God.
If someone tells to another one the truth, in order to give information to
him to help to believe, this could be love (or not, we would have to know
why the person is doing this).
And if you inform someone about the fact of a bad situation, in order to
help him, it also could be love.
And I think that you don't understand other thing:
It is not obligation to be saved, the responsibility of a believer is not to
bother other people to compel them to be saved, God don't do it, why to do
it then?
If it was mandatory from God to be saved, all would be saved already, but it
is a wish from God, not an obligation (read 2 Timothy 2:4).
God gave free of will to the people and He respect this, if someone don't
want to be saved don't worry.
Also if someone would like to be saved but don't believe the salvation of
the Bible, don't worry, they will have another possibility after the
resurrection (it is not the same salvation available now, but still a
salvation, a life).
The people, at first will see what you do, how you (the believer) behaves,
and after that, may be they'll consider what you are saying.
Where do you read in the Bible that someone was bothering atheist because he
wanted to save them? If they want to be saved they'll go to another
newsgroup.
May be I am wrong about that, but it is my point of view (anyway I just
posted a couple of answers to a person that seemed like he wanted to know
something, may be that your post served for something).
And I don't speak to someone that reject to hear me, my time and life is too
valuable for that.
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| User: "Javier Balkenende" |
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| Title: Re: Anger and Weakness |
06 Jun 2004 12:26:54 AM |
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I think that one of the reasons why the people don't want to know anything
when someone talks about the Bible, is because so many so called
"christians" (and I am not including you) aren't really a sample to follow,
so people refuse all this stupidity, none wants to be like them.
A christian have to LIVE what he knows, and show it to others with his life,
as a fist thing. So the other people will say: who are them?? I would like
to know how they do to live like that!
But most of them are stupid, annoying, and also their doctrines are very far
away from what the Bible really teaches (that is the beginning of the
problem).
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| User: "IKnowHimDoYou" |
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| Title: Re: Anger and Weakness |
06 Jun 2004 11:45:53 AM |
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In article <2ifmnoFm8sfgU1@uni-berlin.de>, "Javier Balkenende"
<javierbalk___no___spam___please@hotmail.com> wrote:
I think that you don't have very clear what love of God is.
Love is not a face having a smile, it is a stupid person with hypocrisy, a
religious person that think that he is doing what he has to do, but that
don't understand the love of God.
If someone tells to another one the truth, in order to give information to
him to help to believe, this could be love (or not, we would have to know
why the person is doing this).
And if you inform someone about the fact of a bad situation, in order to
help him, it also could be love.
And I think that you don't understand other thing:
It is not obligation to be saved, the responsibility of a believer is not to
bother other people to compel them to be saved, God don't do it, why to do
it then?
If it was mandatory from God to be saved, all would be saved already, but it
is a wish from God, not an obligation (read 2 Timothy 2:4).
God gave free of will to the people and He respect this, if someone don't
want to be saved don't worry.
Also if someone would like to be saved but don't believe the salvation of
the Bible, don't worry, they will have another possibility after the
resurrection (it is not the same salvation available now, but still a
salvation, a life).
The people, at first will see what you do, how you (the believer) behaves,
and after that, may be they'll consider what you are saying.
Where do you read in the Bible that someone was bothering atheist because he
wanted to save them? If they want to be saved they'll go to another
newsgroup.
May be I am wrong about that, but it is my point of view (anyway I just
posted a couple of answers to a person that seemed like he wanted to know
something, may be that your post served for something).
And I don't speak to someone that reject to hear me, my time and life is too
valuable for that.
______________________________________________________________
Javier, my brother in Christ.
The Lord Jesus Christ gave all His own a command:
"Go ye into all the world and preach the Gospel to every creature..." Mark 16:16
He also said;
"It is appointed unto all men once to die and then the judgment" Hebrews 9:27
There is no second chance at salvation. God says we make that decision
here. John 3:36
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| User: "Javier Balkenende" |
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| Title: Re: Anger and Weakness |
06 Jun 2004 08:28:24 PM |
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IKnowHimDoYou wrote:
Javier, my brother in Christ.
Yes, for sure we are spiritual brothers.
The Lord Jesus Christ gave all His own a command:
"Go ye into all the world and preach the Gospel to every creature..."
Mark 16:16
It is Mark 16:15.
And yes, but put the verse along with all the other Scripture. Where do you
see that God insisted to someone that expressed that he/she doesn't want to
hear any more?
I believe that actually, the most of the people already heard about Jesus
Christ, but may be that they heard part of the truth or some true things
mixed with a lot of erroneous things.
But anyway, If YouKnowHim, then you have to know that He respect people's
will, and does not insist too much.
The problem is not a God's problem, and it is not your problem either, if
you already talked to someone one time, two, at most three times, that is
enough; if you persist, that's not God's will, but yours (then you are
trying to do something better than God does).
He also said;
"It is appointed unto all men once to die and then the judgment"
Hebrews 9:27
Yes, I am not saying that someone is going to die more than one time.
Have you ever think why a judgment? If it is so easy: this one believed---->
saved, this one rejected when IKnowHimDoYou posted in the group----> go to
hell
Javier were also writing there----> Go to a paradise with a lot of beautiful
girls with little clothes.
(in these three points, I can only assure the first one --- and I would like
to assure also the third ---)
There is no second chance at salvation. God says we make that
decision
here. John 3:36
I don't see in John 3:36 the word "here" or "right now".
Anyway, now we have available a great salvation believing in Jesus Christ,
much better than expecting the judgment and see what happen.
I believe that Romans 2:1-16 is talking about that.
I am not a specialist on salvation,
I am already saved because I accepted God's gift of salvation, according to
Romans 10:9-10, adverted also in Ephesians 2:4-9
What I am very sure is the salvation in Jesus Christ available now, but I'm
not too worried about unbelievers because I know that God is fair, and He is
also love, and I think that people that preaches salvation based on fear are
not showing God's real nature of love, mercy (compassion) and forgiveness.
Anyway, why the people need salvation? Good question... The human situation
is very difficult, when God created the first man, He gave him all the
control on the Earth (Genesis 1:28-30), but when he disobeyed to God's word,
he transferred all the authority to the enemy (Luke 4:6, see who has that
authority now), so all the things in the world, including the people, are
under his authority, but not the believers (Colossians 1:13).
So we needed a redeemer, that's why He promised one (Genesis 3:15).
All these things are about spiritual laws, and spiritual situations and
authorities.
And also know what I think about the alt.atheist forum:
Why a "normal" atheist would go to a atheist forum? Why? It makes no sense,
there is not much to discuss about atheism, there is no God and that's all,
there is not much to discuss about it.
I think that a "normal" atheist would spend the time going to a forum about
something that he likes: a cars forum, pop stars forum, math, programming,
whatever he likes, but not to spend the time to a atheism forum where there
is nothing to discuss, there is no God and that's all.
I think that these people came here because they have some problems with
religions, may be that they already heard too much stupidity from religions
and are angry about that, but may be that they want to hear what other
atheist have to say, because they are thinking to be atheist but they still
want to be convinced about that.
The question is, do you have something to say in order to change their minds
or it is just the same that they already heard?
I respect you, I think that you have good intentions (anyway intentions are
not a guarantee of a good result, many people have good intentions).
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| User: "Al B" |
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| Title: Re: Anger and Weakness |
06 Jun 2004 12:41:15 AM |
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Why does this image of two lunatics in an asylum babbling gibberish to each
other pop into my head?
Al B #213
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| User: "Paul Duca" |
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| Title: Re: Anger and Weakness |
05 Jun 2004 09:38:26 PM |
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IKnowHimDoYou wrote:
Anger and Weakness
Some have written that, as a Christian. we must always present our case in
love and I certainly agree with that. However, sometimes real love needs
to take a different tack in order to make the needed change called for.
As an example:
Let us say you are having some health difficulties and you seek a
physician's help. He runs some tests and tells you that you have terminal
cancer. He also tells you that there is no cure and prescibes some pain
killers and advises you to go home and wait for the end. This does not
sound very good so you seek a second opinion. The next physician confirms
the first diagnosis. He tells you that he is an experienced cancer
surgeon. He also tells you that if he could get you on the operating
table right away he might be able to save your life.
Which physician would you prefer or trust with his prognosis?
It is the same with salvation and the gospel. We are not here as
Christians to reform people with love and tenderness. We are here to
rescue the dying and let God regenerate them into new life. This is not a
game of false love trying to tell them to take a pill and all will be
well. That is the beautiful lie that is passed around at the liberal
churches of today with millions going to eternal damnation due to the lack
of the Truth being told. God does not speak with a forked tongue. He
tells us the Truth as it is;
"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life:
He that believeth not the Son shall not see life;
but the wrath of God abideth on him." John 10:10
There remains very little time. Suck it up and get moving. Millions are
going to hell. We must reach as many as possible....that is the real love
of God.
So...God's love is the bitter, vengeful, nagging type you offer up to
us on this newsgroup?
Paul
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: Anger and Weakness |
05 Jun 2004 11:11:15 PM |
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Paul Duca wrote:
IKnowHimDoYou wrote:
Anger and Weakness
Some have written that, as a Christian. we must always present our case in
love and I certainly agree with that. However, sometimes real love needs
to take a different tack in order to make the needed change called for.
As an example:
Let us say you are having some health difficulties and you seek a
physician's help. He runs some tests and tells you that you have terminal
cancer. He also tells you that there is no cure and prescibes some pain
killers and advises you to go home and wait for the end. This does not
sound very good so you seek a second opinion. The next physician confirms
the first diagnosis. He tells you that he is an experienced cancer
surgeon. He also tells you that if he could get you on the operating
table right away he might be able to save your life.
Which physician would you prefer or trust with his prognosis?
It is the same with salvation and the gospel. We are not here as
Christians to reform people with love and tenderness. We are here to
rescue the dying and let God regenerate them into new life. This is not a
game of false love trying to tell them to take a pill and all will be
well. That is the beautiful lie that is passed around at the liberal
churches of today with millions going to eternal damnation due to the lack
of the Truth being told. God does not speak with a forked tongue. He
tells us the Truth as it is;
"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life:
He that believeth not the Son shall not see life;
but the wrath of God abideth on him." John 10:10
There remains very little time. Suck it up and get moving. Millions are
going to hell. We must reach as many as possible....that is the real love
of God.
So...God's love is the bitter, vengeful, nagging type you offer up to
us on this newsgroup?
Frankly I doubt this pathetic troll reads any responses to his posts, so he is
best ignored.
How do you vote ?
Bob
Paul
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| User: "Josef Balluch" |
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| Title: Re: Anger and Weakness |
05 Jun 2004 09:49:53 PM |
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In a message sent 'round the world, IKnowHimDoYou poured fuel on the
fire with the following:
....
There remains very little time. Suck it up and get moving. Millions are
going to hell. We must reach as many as possible....that is the real love
of God.
LOL !!
Why would an omnipotent, omniscient deity use a bumpkin like you to do
it's work?
Think about it.
Regards,
Josef
Christ rode on an *****, but now asses ride on Christ.
-- Heinrich Heine
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| User: "Silver Blaze" |
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| Title: Re: Anger and Weakness |
06 Jun 2004 05:32:14 PM |
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In article <IKnowHim-0506041900250001@pm10-15.kalama.com>,
IKnowHim@leavingsoon.com (IKnowHimDoYou) wrote:
Anger and Weakness
Some have written that, as a Christian. we must always present our case in
love and I certainly agree with that. However, sometimes real love needs
to take a different tack in order to make the needed change called for.
As an example:
Let us say you are having some health difficulties and you seek a
physician's help. He runs some tests and tells you that you have terminal
cancer. He also tells you that there is no cure and prescibes some pain
killers and advises you to go home and wait for the end. This does not
sound very good so you seek a second opinion. The next physician confirms
the first diagnosis. He tells you that he is an experienced cancer
surgeon. He also tells you that if he could get you on the operating
table right away he might be able to save your life.
Which physician would you prefer or trust with his prognosis?
I know which would be cheaper
It is not uncommon to exploit the terminally sick and harvest their
estates by offering fraudulent cures
Your point?
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| User: "Eris" |
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| Title: Re: Anger and Weakness |
05 Jun 2004 09:05:37 PM |
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On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 19:00:25 -0700,
(IKnowHimDoYou) wrote:
It is the same with salvation and the gospel. We are not here as
Christians to reform people with love and tenderness. We are here to
rescue the dying and let God regenerate them into new life. This is not a
game of false love trying to tell them to take a pill and all will be
well. That is the beautiful lie that is passed around at the liberal
churches of today with millions going to eternal damnation due to the lack
of the Truth being told. God does not speak with a forked tongue. He
tells us the Truth as it is;
Why does god need short fat control freaks to do his work for him? God
would only have to reveal himself to me once, and I would be his
adoring follower for life.
But all of my prayers have gone unanswered. So where is your
supporting proof for all of this pie in the sky bs?
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| User: "Javier Balkenende" |
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| Title: Re: Anger and Weakness |
05 Jun 2004 11:31:12 PM |
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Eris wrote:
Why does god need short fat control freaks to do his work for him?
He stated that the believers are the ones to preach to the ones that don't
know his Word.
God
would only have to reveal himself to me once, and I would be his
adoring follower for life.
He is not going to show his face to you, if you are talking about something
like this, He is spirit.
But all of my prayers have gone unanswered. So where is your
supporting proof for all of this pie in the sky bs?
If you really are interested in knowing Him, and you pray from your heart
(the profound part of your mind, its center), your prayers wont be
unanswered, I assure you that. You just need to be humble when you pray to
Him, don't compel Him to do something or so, on the contrary, be respectful,
remember to who you are talking to.
If you don't want to do that, OK, no problem, but then don't say that He
doesn't answer.
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| User: "IKnowHimDoYou" |
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| Title: Re: Anger and Weakness |
06 Jun 2004 11:31:30 AM |
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In article <2ifl0hFmuh7jU1@uni-berlin.de>, "Javier Balkenende"
<javierbalk___no___spam___please@hotmail.com> wrote:
Eris wrote:
Why does god need short fat control freaks to do his work for him?
He stated that the believers are the ones to preach to the ones that don't
know his Word.
God
would only have to reveal himself to me once, and I would be his
adoring follower for life.
He is not going to show his face to you, if you are talking about something
like this, He is spirit.
But all of my prayers have gone unanswered. So where is your
supporting proof for all of this pie in the sky bs?
If you really are interested in knowing Him, and you pray from your heart
(the profound part of your mind, its center), your prayers wont be
unanswered, I assure you that. You just need to be humble when you pray to
Him, don't compel Him to do something or so, on the contrary, be respectful,
remember to who you are talking to.
If you don't want to do that, OK, no problem, but then don't say that He
doesn't answer.
___________________________________________________________
First you need to know Him and have a relationship with Him through "born
again" John 3:3,5.
One cannot speak to God as a Father until He IS your father.
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| User: "Javier Balkenende" |
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| Title: Re: Anger and Weakness |
06 Jun 2004 08:53:04 PM |
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IKnowHimDoYou wrote:
First you need to know Him and have a relationship with Him through
"born again" John 3:3,5.
You cannot speak to him as a Father but you can speak to Him even when He is
not your father yet.
Acts 10:1-2
Acts 10:34-35
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| User: "Javier Balkenende" |
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| Title: Re: Anger and Weakness |
06 Jun 2004 09:05:08 PM |
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Javier Balkenende wrote:
Acts 10:1-2
One point: the word "feared" in verse 2 means respectful, it does not mean
to fear in any way.
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| User: "Nikolaos D. Bougalis" |
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| Title: Re: Anger and Weakness |
07 Jun 2004 02:03:51 AM |
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Javier Balkenende wrote:
Javier Balkenende wrote:
Acts 10:1-2
One point: the word "feared" in verse 2 means respectful, it does not mean
to fear in any way.
Redefining words seems very popular these days.
-n
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| User: "Javier Balkenende" |
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| Title: Re: Anger and Weakness |
07 Jun 2004 03:40:20 AM |
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Sorry, I don't have time to talk with ignorants.
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| User: "Nikolaos D. Bougalis" |
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| Title: Re: Anger and Weakness |
07 Jun 2004 03:25:24 PM |
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Javier Balkenende wrote:
Sorry, I don't have time to talk with ignorants.
That's convenient. Anything to avoid having your irrational beliefs
demonstrated as false.
-n
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| User: "Jos Flachs" |
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| Title: Re: Anger and Weakness |
07 Jun 2004 06:57:32 AM |
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On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 05:40:20 -0300, "Javier Balkenende"
<javierbalk___no___spam___please@hotmail.com> wrote:
Sorry, I don't have time to talk with ignorants.
Out of sheer curiosity: are you Dutch? Family of Jan Peter?
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| User: "Silver Blaze" |
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| Title: Re: Anger and Weakness |
06 Jun 2004 05:36:18 PM |
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_____________________________
First you need to know Him and have a relationship with Him through "born
again" John 3:3,5.
Then you have to GROW UP
TRY TO!
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought
as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know
in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
1 Corinthians 13 from verse 11
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| User: "GlennGlenn" |
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| Title: Re: Anger and Weakness |
06 Jun 2004 12:55:59 AM |
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In article <2ifl0hFmuh7jU1@uni-berlin.de>, Javier Balkenende
<javierbalk___no___spam___please@hotmail.com> wrote:
Eris wrote:
Why does god need short fat control freaks to do his work for him?
He stated that the believers are the ones to preach to the ones that don't
know his Word.
Oh, great... more liars for Jesus.
God
would only have to reveal himself to me once, and I would be his
adoring follower for life.
He is not going to show his face to you, if you are talking about something
like this, He is spirit.
Word salad.
But all of my prayers have gone unanswered. So where is your
supporting proof for all of this pie in the sky bs?
If you really are interested in knowing Him, and you pray from your heart
(the profound part of your mind, its center), your prayers wont be
unanswered, I assure you that. You just need to be humble when you pray to
Him, don't compel Him to do something or so, on the contrary, be respectful,
remember to who you are talking to.
Santa Claus?
If you don't want to do that, OK, no problem,
Gee, thanks. But that means we get to go to "Hell®," right?
but then don't say that He
doesn't answer.
No need. You just did.
--
GlennGlenn -- aa#825 --
"As long as half the world's population subsists on less than two dollars a
day, the US will not be secure.... A world populated by 'hostile have-nots' is
not one in which US leadership can be sustained without coercion" --Howard Dean
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| User: "Nikolaos D. Bougalis" |
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| Title: Re: Anger and Weakness |
06 Jun 2004 09:46:34 AM |
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Javier Balkenende wrote:
Eris wrote:
Why does god need short fat control freaks to do his work for him?
He stated that the believers are the ones to preach to the ones that don't
know his Word.
God
would only have to reveal himself to me once, and I would be his
adoring follower for life.
He is not going to show his face to you, if you are talking about something
like this, He is spirit.
First of all, "reval himself" does not necessarily mean showing his
face. He's supposedly appeared as a burning bush, a booming, thundering
cloud, and a burrito in Mexico.
In all seriousness, he could simply contact the OP in a way that is
undisputable.
But all of my prayers have gone unanswered. So where is your
supporting proof for all of this pie in the sky bs?
If you really are interested in knowing Him, and you pray from your heart
(the profound part of your mind, its center), your prayers wont be
unanswered, I assure you that. You just need to be humble when you pray to
Him, don't compel Him to do something or so, on the contrary, be respectful,
remember to who you are talking to.
So, let me get this straight. In order to be given "proof" that God
exists, we must first agree that God exists?
-n
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| User: "Javier Balkenende" |
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| Title: Re: Anger and Weakness |
06 Jun 2004 03:34:13 PM |
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Nikolaos D. Bougalis wrote:
First of all, "reval himself" does not necessarily mean showing his
face. He's supposedly appeared as a burning bush, a booming,
thundering cloud, and a burrito in Mexico.
Before Pentecost of Acts 2, the people did not have the possibility to born
from holy spirit, so there were not connection between God that is spirit
and the people. That's why He appeared to Moses like a burning bush, and He
did some things like that in the Old Testament.
Only very few believers had the holy spirit over them (in the OT), in a
conditional way, and these people were able to communicate with God, but
when they didn't have it God needed to reveal himself through something
evident at the physical five senses.
Now we receive holy spirit (not conditionally) when we believe, so it is not
necessary for God to do something by our five senses, you can see that from
Acts 2 to Revelation, there is not evidence of that, so about the "burrito
in Mexico" I think about it more as idolatry, and if there were a miracle,
it wasn't from God.
So, let me get this straight. In order to be given "proof" that God
exists, we must first agree that God exists?
Yes, it is necessary to believe first, then you'll have some "proofs".
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| User: "Nikolaos D. Bougalis" |
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| Title: Re: Anger and Weakness |
06 Jun 2004 04:00:22 PM |
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Javier Balkenende wrote:
Nikolaos D. Bougalis wrote:
First of all, "reval himself" does not necessarily mean showing his
face. He's supposedly appeared as a burning bush, a booming,
thundering cloud, and a burrito in Mexico.
Before Pentecost of Acts 2, the people did not have the possibility to born
from holy spirit, so there were not connection between God that is spirit
and the people. That's why He appeared to Moses like a burning bush, and He
did some things like that in the Old Testament.
Only very few believers had the holy spirit over them (in the OT), in a
conditional way, and these people were able to communicate with God, but
when they didn't have it God needed to reveal himself through something
evident at the physical five senses.
Or, someone just wrote "I saw a bush that appeared to be burning, but
didn't. It was God." Just like some people said " a bolt of thunder came
from the sky. It was Zeus."
Now we receive holy spirit (not conditionally) when we believe, so it is not
necessary for God to do something by our five senses, you can see that from
Acts 2 to Revelation, there is not evidence of that, so about the "burrito
in Mexico" I think about it more as idolatry, and if there were a miracle,
it wasn't from God.
It was meant as a joke.
So, let me get this straight. In order to be given "proof" that God
exists, we must first agree that God exists?
Yes, it is necessary to believe first, then you'll have some "proofs".
That's ridiculous. If you believe that there's an invisible elf sitting
on top of your head, why would you care about proof?
Read "Atheism: A case against God" by George H. Smith. You might learn
something.
-n
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| User: "LP" |
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| Title: Re: Anger and Weakness |
06 Jun 2004 01:43:05 AM |
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On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 01:31:12 -0300, "Javier Balkenende"
<javierbalk___no___spam___please@hotmail.com> wrote:
Eris wrote:
Why does god need short fat control freaks to do his work for him?
He stated that the believers are the ones to preach to the ones that don't
know his Word.
God
would only have to reveal himself to me once, and I would be his
adoring follower for life.
He is not going to show his face to you, if you are talking about something
like this, He is spirit.
But isn't the Christian version of God supposed to have magic powers?
I am sure he could find some way to alter the fact that the evidence
for his existence is exactly the same as anything else that doesn't
exist. There is no evidence that any gods exist outside the
imaginations of those who feel the need for believing such a things.
But all of my prayers have gone unanswered. So where is your
supporting proof for all of this pie in the sky bs?
If you really are interested in knowing Him, and you pray from your heart
(the profound part of your mind, its center), your prayers wont be
unanswered, I assure you that. You just need to be humble when you pray to
Him, don't compel Him to do something or so, on the contrary, be respectful,
remember to who you are talking to.
If you don't want to do that, OK, no problem, but then don't say that He
doesn't answer.
Keep these alternatives in mind the next time you have been fooled
into believing some sort of god is answering your prayers.
-------------------------
Kookoo the Tree God
The Editor
Canton Daily Ledger
53 West Elm Street
Canton, IL 61520
Sir/Madam:
In a recent letter to the editor, Mahala Lafferty offered a personal
experience she had recently had as evidence that her god answers
prayers. After relating a close call her son had had while hauling a
tractor on I-474, she concluded that a prayer she had said had saved
him from dying in a horrible accident. She asked if anyone could now
question that her god answers prayers.
I regret to say that I do have to question that her prayers had
anything to do with her son's narrow escape, because she gave no
indication that she had prayed to Kookoo the tree god, who lives in a
small grove of trees behind my house. If her prayers were not
directed to Kookoo, then she did not pray to the one and only true
god, so there is no way that her prayers could have been heard.
Kookoo will hear only the prayers of those who believe in him.
I have kept Kookoo's existence a secret for a long time, but Mrs.
Lafferty's letter has finally given me the courage to speak out and
reveal him to the world. I, of course, have known of Kookoo's
existence for a long time. I have had a personal experience with
Kookoo and have accepted him as my personal god, and nobody can
convince me that I have not experienced what I know that I did
experience. Many times I have prayed to Kookoo, and he has heard my
prayers and answered them. I often talk to Kookoo, and he talks to
me. How can I deny that I have walked and talked with Kookoo when I
know that I have?
Whenever I go on a trip, I ask for Kookoo's protection, and he has
always answered my prayers. Even though I have made several airline
trips, some of them international flights, none of the airplanes I
have flown on ever crashed. In view of such evidence as this, who
can deny that Kookoo has not watched over me and answered my prayers?
On a motor trip once, a front tire blew out on my car when I was
traveling 70 miles per hour. (Yes, I was fudging a little bit on the
speed limit.) The moment I realized what had happened, I uttered a
quick prayer to Kookoo, and soon I had the car under control and was
able to bring it to a safe stop on the shoulder. I shudder to think
of what would have happened to me if Kookoo had not heard my prayer.
To be honest, I must admit that Kookoo has not always given me the
things I have prayed for, but I understand why. It wasn't that
Kookoo didn't hear and answer my prayers; it was simply that Kookoo's
answer was no on those occasions. His ways are higher than my ways,
so he understands what is best for me. I always respect the wisdom
of his decisions even when I don't get the things I pray for. I know
that someday I will understand why Kookoo has often had to tell me no
when I prayed.
The good news for everyone is that Kookoo lives and abides everywhere
that trees grow. If you have a tree in your yard, you can be assured
that Kookoo is there. If you will believe in Kookoo and pray to him
in your time of need, you too can know the great joy of a personal
experience with Kookoo. I urge everyone to pray to Kookoo in his/her
hour of need. There is no joy comparable to the joy of knowing
Kookoo the tree god as your personal god.
--Farrell Till
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| User: "bardi" |
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| Title: Re: Anger and Weakness |
06 Jun 2004 01:54:58 AM |
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"LP" <whirl_pool@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:k4e5c0dga444h9vmagabds84941asvdmim@4ax.com...
On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 01:31:12 -0300, "Javier Balkenende"
<javierbalk___no___spam___please@hotmail.com> wrote:
Eris wrote:
Why does god need short fat control freaks to do his work for him?
He stated that the believers are the ones to preach to the ones that
don't
know his Word.
God
would only have to reveal himself to me once, and I would be his
adoring follower for life.
He is not going to show his face to you, if you are talking about
something
like this, He is spirit.
But isn't the Christian version of God supposed to have magic powers?
I am sure he could find some way to alter the fact that the evidence
for his existence is exactly the same as anything else that doesn't
exist. There is no evidence that any gods exist outside the
imaginations of those who feel the need for believing such a things.
But all of my prayers have gone unanswered. So where is your
supporting proof for all of this pie in the sky bs?
If you really are interested in knowing Him, and you pray from your heart
(the profound part of your mind, its center), your prayers wont be
unanswered, I assure you that. You just need to be humble when you pray
to
Him, don't compel Him to do something or so, on the contrary, be
respectful,
remember to who you are talking to.
If you don't want to do that, OK, no problem, but then don't say that He
doesn't answer.
Keep these alternatives in mind the next time you have been fooled
into believing some sort of god is answering your prayers.
I have this terribly small,insignificant but still nagging problem.
Let us assume for a moment that God exists. Humour me and accept it just for
the sake of argument. In that case the next logical question is ..why do we
exist? Is it just to worship God? Quite frankly, that does not sound very
God-like to me.
And He..or She..there really is no deity pronoun.. has given us free will.
And yet people are constantly asking God to take that gift back. Confuses me
it does.
dnp
bardi
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| User: "raven1" |
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| Title: Re: Anger and Weakness |
06 Jun 2004 04:36:40 AM |
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On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 19:00:25 -0700,
(IKnowHimDoYou) wrote:
There remains very little time. Suck it up and get moving. Millions are
going to hell. We must reach as many as possible..
If your God really wants to reach me, why does he only send blithering
idiots to speak for him?
Seriously, do you really think your combination of ignorance,
arrogance, and bigotry is going to convert anyone? If there is a God,
he's weeping at the thought that you're representing him. Shame on
you.
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