Religions > Atheism > Another Conservative Jumping Off of Bush's Sinking Ship Part XVIII (re: Why Are NeoCons so Incompetent?)
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Yang, AthD h.c" |
| Date: |
07 Jul 2004 01:31:02 AM |
| Object: |
Another Conservative Jumping Off of Bush's Sinking Ship Part XVIII (re: Why Are NeoCons so Incompetent?) |
"In 'Four Trials', John Edwards has written movingly of people who
were terribly wronged, and whom he helped seek some measure of justice
with great skill, determination, and genuine compassion. He shows a
perceptive appreciation in these accounts for the strength of his
clinets' character. And in the loving portrait of his son, Wade, and
the deeply touching account of his losss, John reveals the strength of
his own chracter and gives the reader a look beyond a political
biography into the heart of a good man."
-John McCain
-----
Yang
a.a. #28
AthD (h.c.) conferred by the regents of the LCL
a.a. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee Kelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Socerey Division
Proudly plonked by Lani Girl and Crazyalec
The Bush 'balanced' budget: 1.2 trillion and worsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: -3 million jobs and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -870 GIs, one friend's co-worker's son and mounting
Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Another Conservative Jumping Off of Bush's Sinking Ship Part XVIII (re: Why Are NeoCons so Incompetent?) |
26 Jul 2004 10:49:10 AM |
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osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
You are STRONGLY partial to your own group and you are definetely
***** Heishman has a long history of lying about people and nothing
he says about anybody can be believed.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "coasterqueen" |
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| Title: Re: Another Conservative Jumping Off of Bush's Sinking Ship Part XVIII (re: Why Are NeoCons so Incompetent?) |
26 Jul 2004 03:58:12 PM |
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You might be interested in the following just written by Charley
Reese of the Orlando Sentinel. If you know the writer and his strongly
conservative reputation, you should find it eye opening. Note particularly
what he says about John Kerry.The conservative journalists Robert Novak and
William Kristol happen to be saying the same things. Here's a column from
the VERY CONSERVATIVE Charley Reese of the Orlando Sentinel.
______________________________________________
Vote For A Man, Not A Puppet
Americans should realize that if they vote for President Bush's
re-election, they are really voting for the architects of war - *****
Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz and the rest of that cabal of
neoconservative ideologues and their corporate backers. I have sadly come to
the conclusion that President Bush is merely a frontman, an empty suit, who
is manipulated by the people in his
administration.
Bush has the most dangerously simplistic view of the world of any
president in my memory. It's no wonder the president avoids press
conferences like the plague. Take away his cue cards and he can barely talk.
Americans should be embarrassed that an Arab king (Abdullah of Jordan) spoke
more fluently and articulately in
English than our own president at their joint press conference
recently. John Kerry is at least an educated man, well-read, who knows
how to think and who knows that the world is a great deal more complex than
Bush's comic-book world of American heroes and foreign evildoers. It's
unfortunate that in our poorly educated country, Kerry's very intelligence
and refusal to adopt
simplistic slogans might doom his presidential election efforts.
But Thomas Jefferson said it well, as he did so often, when he
observed that people who expect to be ignorant and free expect what never
was and never will be. People who think of themselves as conservatives will
really display their stupidity, as I did in the last election, by voting for
Bush. Bush is as far from being a conservative as you can get. Well, he
fooled me once, but he won't fool me twice.
It is not at all conservative to balloon government spending, to vastly
increase the power of government, to show contempt for the
Constitution and the rule of law, or to tell people that foreign
outsourcing of American jobs is good for them, that giant fiscal and trade
deficits don't matter, and that people should not know what their government
is doing.
Bush is the most prone-to-classify, the most secretive president in
the 20th century. His administration leans dangerously toward the
authoritarian. It's no wonder that the Justice Department has convicted a
few Arab-Americans of supporting terrorism. What would you do if you found
yourself arrested and a federal prosecutor whispers in your ear that either
you can plea-bargain this or the president will designate you an enemy
combatant and you'll
be held incommunicado for the duration?
This election really is important, not only for domestic reasons,
but because Bush's foreign policy has been a dangerous disaster. He's
almost restarted the Cold War with Russia and the nuclear arms race. America
is not only hated in the Middle East, but it has few friends anywhere in the
world thanks to the arrogance and ineptness of the Bush administration.
Don't forget, a scientific poll of Europeans found us, Israel, North Korea
and Iran as the greatest threats to world peace.
I will swallow a lot of petty policy differences with Kerry to get a
man in the White House with brains enough not to blow up the world and us
with it. Go to Kerry's Web site (www.johnkerry.com) and read some of the
magazine profiles on him. Y ou'll find that there is a great deal more to
Kerry than the GOP attack dogs would have you believe. Besides, it would be
fun to have a president who plays hockey, windsurfs, ride motorcycles, plays
the guitar, writes poetry and speaks French. It would be good to have a man
in the White House who has killed people face to face. Killing people has a
sobering effect on a man and dispels all illusions about war.
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| User: "lab~rat" |
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| Title: Re: Another Conservative Jumping Off of Bush's Sinking Ship Part XVIII (re: Why Are NeoCons so Incompetent?) |
22 Jul 2004 07:44:41 AM |
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On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 19:49:26 -0700, Elmo <anto@sales.com> puked:
No, it isn't the money it is the fact that some lie and cheat to get their
money.
And you can back that up, right?
You're kidding, right?
--
lab~rat >:-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?
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| User: "lab~rat" |
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| Title: Re: Another Conservative Jumping Off of Bush's Sinking Ship Part XVIII (re: Why Are NeoCons so Incompetent?) |
22 Jul 2004 06:41:09 AM |
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On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 11:20:04 -0700, Elmo <anto@sales.com> puked:
In article <210720040741570672%DumpBushInNovember@usa.com>, David W.
Barnes <DumpBushInNovember@usa.com> wrote:
In article <r5rsf0lhe08lip5vqjd1pr356siakau508@4ax.com>, BUSH=TERRORIST
<newsflash@o11.com> wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 21:14:42 -0500, Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote:
"David W. Barnes" <DumpBushInNovember@usa.com> wrote in
news:180720041735391811%DumpBushInNovember@usa.com:
In article <srhi-9BDBAA.20340518072004@news-40.giganews.com>, Shawn
Hearn <srhi@comcast.net> wrote:
In article <hDRGc.8626$%A6.2179@charlie.risq.qc.ca>,
Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote:
"Yang, AthD (h.c)" <eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> wrote in
news:695ne0leiq8la44abuj3so86lcni7se2u3@4ax.com:
"In 'Four Trials', John Edwards has written movingly of people who
were terribly wronged, and whom he helped seek some measure of
justice with great skill, determination, and genuine compassion. He
shows a perceptive appreciation in these accounts for the strength
of his clinets' character. And in the loving portrait of his son,
Wade, and the deeply touching account of his losss, John reveals
the strength of his own chracter and gives the reader a look beyond
a political biography into the heart of a good man."
-John McCain
Edwards is nothing more than a sleazy lawyer who got rich from
personal injury trials.
Wrong. You obviously have no clue how Edwards earned his money.
Furthermore, no one ever thinks about what the consequences would be of
not having those lawyers out there suing.
My medical bills would be a lot lower.
Only the Republicans would think like this. Rather than blame the true
culprit, the negligent doctors, you just want to protect the big
insurance companies.
Trail lawyers who sue doctors are protecting you. Too bad you can't
see what the result would be without that protection.
Republicans would doctors who cut off the wrong leg just walk away
without taking any responsibility. I think people are just jealous
because lawyers make a lot of money. It is human nature.
For the record, medical malpractice and personal injury suits are
entirely different. And doctors who cut off the wrong leg suffer more
than monetary loss in a lot of cases.
--
lab~rat >:-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Another Conservative Jumping Off of Bush's Sinking Ship Part XVIII (re: Why Are NeoCons so Incompetent?) |
26 Jul 2004 10:50:02 AM |
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lab~rat <SnapTrap@ouchyouf*cker.ork> wrote:
Elmo <anto@sales.com> puked:
Republicans would doctors who cut off the wrong leg just walk away
without taking any responsibility. I think people are just jealous
because lawyers make a lot of money. It is human nature.
For the record, medical malpractice and personal injury suits are
entirely different. And doctors who cut off the wrong leg suffer more
than monetary loss in a lot of cases.
They end up without any legs?
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "lab~rat" |
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| Title: Re: Another Conservative Jumping Off of Bush's Sinking Ship Part XVIII (re: Why Are NeoCons so Incompetent?) |
26 Jul 2004 11:32:24 AM |
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On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 15:50:02 GMT, (Ray
Fischer) puked:
lab~rat <SnapTrap@ouchyouf*cker.ork> wrote:
Elmo <anto@sales.com> puked:
Republicans would doctors who cut off the wrong leg just walk away
without taking any responsibility. I think people are just jealous
because lawyers make a lot of money. It is human nature.
For the record, medical malpractice and personal injury suits are
entirely different. And doctors who cut off the wrong leg suffer more
than monetary loss in a lot of cases.
They end up without any legs?
I guess that's always a possibility...
--
lab~rat >:-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Another Conservative Jumping Off of Bush's Sinking Ship Part XVIII (re: Why Are NeoCons so Incompetent?) |
26 Jul 2004 11:52:33 PM |
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lab~rat <SnapTrap@ouchyouf*cker.ork> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) puked:
lab~rat <SnapTrap@ouchyouf*cker.ork> wrote:
Elmo <anto@sales.com> puked:
Republicans would doctors who cut off the wrong leg just walk away
without taking any responsibility. I think people are just jealous
because lawyers make a lot of money. It is human nature.
For the record, medical malpractice and personal injury suits are
entirely different. And doctors who cut off the wrong leg suffer more
than monetary loss in a lot of cases.
They end up without any legs?
I guess that's always a possibility...
So the person gets both legs amputated but you think that the doctor
shouldn't be punished too harshly.
Tell us: How much are YOUR legs worth to you? How much should you
get if, because of someone's incompetance, you ended up stuck in a
wheelchair for the rest of your life?
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "lab~rat" |
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| Title: Re: Another Conservative Jumping Off of Bush's Sinking Ship Part XVIII (re: Why Are NeoCons so Incompetent?) |
27 Jul 2004 07:36:25 AM |
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On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 04:52:33 GMT, (Ray
Fischer) puked:
lab~rat <SnapTrap@ouchyouf*cker.ork> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) puked:
lab~rat <SnapTrap@ouchyouf*cker.ork> wrote:
Elmo <anto@sales.com> puked:
Republicans would doctors who cut off the wrong leg just walk away
without taking any responsibility. I think people are just jealous
because lawyers make a lot of money. It is human nature.
For the record, medical malpractice and personal injury suits are
entirely different. And doctors who cut off the wrong leg suffer more
than monetary loss in a lot of cases.
They end up without any legs?
I guess that's always a possibility...
So the person gets both legs amputated but you think that the doctor
shouldn't be punished too harshly.
Tell us: How much are YOUR legs worth to you? How much should you
get if, because of someone's incompetance, you ended up stuck in a
wheelchair for the rest of your life?
What the ***** are you talking about? I'm not arguing anything here, I
was just making a statement. Why don't you cut your own ***** legs
off and shove them up your ***** one at a time...
--
lab~rat >:-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?
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| User: "lab~rat" |
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| Title: Re: Another Conservative Jumping Off of Bush's Sinking Ship Part XVIII (re: Why Are NeoCons so Incompetent?) |
21 Jul 2004 11:10:43 AM |
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On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 07:41:57 -0700, "David W. Barnes"
<DumpBushInNovember@usa.com> puked:
Trail lawyers who sue doctors are protecting you. Too bad you can't
see what the result would be without that protection.
Then they should be forced to either take all personal injury cases at
a (low) fixed fee or on a contingency basis. Just to weed out the
ambulance chasers...
--
lab~rat >:-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?
.
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| User: "Pookie" |
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| Title: Re: Another Conservative Jumping Off of Bush's Sinking Ship Part XVIII (re: Why Are NeoCons so Incompetent?) |
21 Jul 2004 11:41:50 AM |
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"lab~rat" <chase@cheese.net> wrote in message
news:v74tf0p0h1st2dmlgquao6c80pn4noqpks@4ax.com...
On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 07:41:57 -0700, "David W. Barnes"
<DumpBushInNovember@usa.com> puked:
Trail lawyers who sue doctors are protecting you. Too bad you can't
see what the result would be without that protection.
Then they should be forced to either take all personal injury cases at
a (low) fixed fee or on a contingency basis. Just to weed out the
ambulance chasers...
You rang?
http://members.aol.com/guitarrush/edwards.jpg
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| User: "Elmo" |
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| Title: Re: Another Conservative Jumping Off of Bush's Sinking Ship Part XVIII (re: Why Are NeoCons so Incompetent?) |
21 Jul 2004 01:18:18 PM |
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In article <v74tf0p0h1st2dmlgquao6c80pn4noqpks@4ax.com>, lab~rat
<chase@cheese.net> wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 07:41:57 -0700, "David W. Barnes"
<DumpBushInNovember@usa.com> puked:
Trial lawyers who sue doctors are protecting you. Too bad you can't
see what the result would be without that protection.
Then they should be forced to either take all personal injury cases at
a (low) fixed fee or on a contingency basis. Just to weed out the
ambulance chasers...
That is a typical Republican hypocritical response. What ever happened
to this "Capitalism" thing Republicans claim to care for so much? I
guess when it comes to protecting those who give money to the
Republican Party "price controls" are acceptable.
What next? Price controls on doctors, too? Sounds like Communism.
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| User: "lab~rat" |
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| Title: Re: Another Conservative Jumping Off of Bush's Sinking Ship Part XVIII (re: Why Are NeoCons so Incompetent?) |
22 Jul 2004 06:41:07 AM |
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On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 11:18:18 -0700, Elmo <anto@sales.com> puked:
In article <v74tf0p0h1st2dmlgquao6c80pn4noqpks@4ax.com>, lab~rat
<chase@cheese.net> wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 07:41:57 -0700, "David W. Barnes"
<DumpBushInNovember@usa.com> puked:
Trial lawyers who sue doctors are protecting you. Too bad you can't
see what the result would be without that protection.
Then they should be forced to either take all personal injury cases at
a (low) fixed fee or on a contingency basis. Just to weed out the
ambulance chasers...
That is a typical Republican hypocritical response. What ever happened
to this "Capitalism" thing Republicans claim to care for so much? I
guess when it comes to protecting those who give money to the
Republican Party "price controls" are acceptable.
What makes you think that was a Republican response? It was an
anti-lawyer response. And the problem is that lawyers forge the laws,
so that's kind of like the fox guarding the hen house, wouldn't you
say?
I've spent enough time & money in the legal foxhole to not only be
qualified to make that statement, but to pass judgement on lawyers in
general.
What next? Price controls on doctors, too? Sounds like Communism.
Who did you vote for in 2000?
--
lab~rat >:-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?
.
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| User: "Yang, AthD h.c" |
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| Title: Re: Another Conservative Jumping Off of Bush's Sinking Ship Part XVIII (re: Why Are NeoCons so Incompetent?) |
08 Jul 2004 02:20:43 AM |
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On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 12:02:21 GMT, Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote:
"Yang, AthD (h.c)" <eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> wrote in
news:695ne0leiq8la44abuj3so86lcni7se2u3@4ax.com:
"In 'Four Trials', John Edwards has written movingly of people who
were terribly wronged, and whom he helped seek some measure of justice
with great skill, determination, and genuine compassion. He shows a
perceptive appreciation in these accounts for the strength of his
clinets' character. And in the loving portrait of his son, Wade, and
the deeply touching account of his losss, John reveals the strength of
his own chracter and gives the reader a look beyond a political
biography into the heart of a good man."
-John McCain
Edwards is nothing more than a sleazy lawyer who got rich from personal
injury trials.
Go ***** yourself
The defining case in Edwards' legal career wrapped up that same year.
In 1993, a five-year-old girl named Valerie Lakey had been playing in
a Wake County, N.C., wading pool when she became caught in an
uncovered drain so forcefully that the suction pulled out most of her
intestines. She survived but for the rest of her life will need to be
hooked up to feeding tubes for 12 hours each night. Edwards filed suit
on the Lakeys' behalf against Sta-Rite Industries, the Wisconsin
corporation that manufactured the drain. Attorneys describe his
handling of the case as a virtuoso example of a trial layer bringing a
negligent corporation to heel. Sta-Rite offered the Lakeys $100,000 to
settle the case. Edwards passed. Before trial, he discovered that 12
other children had suffered similar injuries from Sta-Rite drains. The
company raised its offer to $1.25 million. Two weeks into the trial,
they upped the figure to $8.5 million. Edwards declined the offer and
asked for their insurance policy limit of $22.5 million. The day
before the trial resumed from Christmas break, Sta-Rite countered with
$17.5 million. Again, Edwards said no. On January 10, 1997, lawyers
from across the state packed the courtroom to hear Edwards' closing
argument, "the most impressive legal performance I have ever seen,"
recalls Dayton. Three days later, the jury found Sta-Rite guilty and
liable for $25 million in economic damages (by state law, punitive
damages could have tripled that amount). The company immediately
settled for $25 million, the largest verdict in state history. For
their part, Edwards and Kirby earned the Association of Trial Lawyers
of America's national award for public service.
-----
Yang
a.a. #28
AthD (h.c.) conferred by the regents of the LCL
a.a. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee Kelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Socerey Division
Proudly plonked by Lani Girl and Crazyalec
The Bush 'balanced' budget: 1.2 trillion and worsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: -3 million jobs and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -870 GIs, one friend's co-worker's son and mounting
Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless
.
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| User: "Xomicron" |
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| Title: Re: Another Conservative Jumping Off of Bush's Sinking Ship Part XVIII (re: Why Are NeoCons so Incompetent?) |
10 Jul 2004 07:37:30 PM |
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"Yang, AthD (h.c)" <eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> wrote in
news:s5tpe0d73pb20fcfj7lb4qeubdlg0o3r3n@4ax.com:
On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 12:02:21 GMT, Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote:
"Yang, AthD (h.c)" <eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> wrote in
news:695ne0leiq8la44abuj3so86lcni7se2u3@4ax.com:
"In 'Four Trials', John Edwards has written movingly of people who
were terribly wronged, and whom he helped seek some measure of justice
with great skill, determination, and genuine compassion. He shows a
perceptive appreciation in these accounts for the strength of his
clinets' character. And in the loving portrait of his son, Wade, and
the deeply touching account of his losss, John reveals the strength of
his own chracter and gives the reader a look beyond a political
biography into the heart of a good man."
-John McCain
Edwards is nothing more than a sleazy lawyer who got rich from personal
injury trials.
Go ***** yourself
The extent of the intellect of the left.
The defining case in Edwards' legal career wrapped up that same year.
In 1993, a five-year-old girl named Valerie Lakey had been playing in
a Wake County, N.C., wading pool when she became caught in an
uncovered drain so forcefully that the suction pulled out most of her
intestines. She survived but for the rest of her life will need to be
hooked up to feeding tubes for 12 hours each night. Edwards filed suit
on the Lakeys' behalf against Sta-Rite Industries, the Wisconsin
corporation that manufactured the drain. Attorneys describe his
handling of the case as a virtuoso example of a trial layer bringing a
negligent corporation to heel. Sta-Rite offered the Lakeys $100,000 to
settle the case. Edwards passed. Before trial, he discovered that 12
other children had suffered similar injuries from Sta-Rite drains. The
company raised its offer to $1.25 million. Two weeks into the trial,
they upped the figure to $8.5 million. Edwards declined the offer and
asked for their insurance policy limit of $22.5 million. The day
before the trial resumed from Christmas break, Sta-Rite countered with
$17.5 million. Again, Edwards said no. On January 10, 1997, lawyers
from across the state packed the courtroom to hear Edwards' closing
argument, "the most impressive legal performance I have ever seen,"
recalls Dayton. Three days later, the jury found Sta-Rite guilty and
liable for $25 million in economic damages (by state law, punitive
damages could have tripled that amount). The company immediately
settled for $25 million, the largest verdict in state history. For
their part, Edwards and Kirby earned the Association of Trial Lawyers
of America's national award for public service.
Thank you. You just proved my point.
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| User: "Pookie" |
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| Title: Re: Another Conservative Jumping Off of Bush's Sinking Ship Part XVIII (re: Why Are NeoCons so Incompetent?) |
10 Jul 2004 09:05:58 PM |
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"Xomicron" <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote in message
news:ccq248$q44$2@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk...
"Yang, AthD (h.c)" <eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> wrote in
news:s5tpe0d73pb20fcfj7lb4qeubdlg0o3r3n@4ax.com:
On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 12:02:21 GMT, Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote:
"Yang, AthD (h.c)" <eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> wrote in
news:695ne0leiq8la44abuj3so86lcni7se2u3@4ax.com:
"In 'Four Trials', John Edwards has written movingly of people who
were terribly wronged, and whom he helped seek some measure of justice
with great skill, determination, and genuine compassion. He shows a
perceptive appreciation in these accounts for the strength of his
clinets' character. And in the loving portrait of his son, Wade, and
the deeply touching account of his losss, John reveals the strength of
his own chracter and gives the reader a look beyond a political
biography into the heart of a good man."
-John McCain
Edwards is nothing more than a sleazy lawyer who got rich from personal
injury trials.
Go ***** yourself
The extent of the intellect of the left.
The defining case in Edwards' legal career wrapped up that same year.
In 1993, a five-year-old girl named Valerie Lakey had been playing in
a Wake County, N.C., wading pool when she became caught in an
uncovered drain so forcefully that the suction pulled out most of her
intestines. She survived but for the rest of her life will need to be
hooked up to feeding tubes for 12 hours each night. Edwards filed suit
on the Lakeys' behalf against Sta-Rite Industries, the Wisconsin
corporation that manufactured the drain. Attorneys describe his
handling of the case as a virtuoso example of a trial layer bringing a
negligent corporation to heel. Sta-Rite offered the Lakeys $100,000 to
settle the case. Edwards passed. Before trial, he discovered that 12
other children had suffered similar injuries from Sta-Rite drains. The
company raised its offer to $1.25 million. Two weeks into the trial,
they upped the figure to $8.5 million. Edwards declined the offer and
asked for their insurance policy limit of $22.5 million. The day
before the trial resumed from Christmas break, Sta-Rite countered with
$17.5 million. Again, Edwards said no. On January 10, 1997, lawyers
from across the state packed the courtroom to hear Edwards' closing
argument, "the most impressive legal performance I have ever seen,"
recalls Dayton. Three days later, the jury found Sta-Rite guilty and
liable for $25 million in economic damages (by state law, punitive
damages could have tripled that amount). The company immediately
settled for $25 million, the largest verdict in state history. For
their part, Edwards and Kirby earned the Association of Trial Lawyers
of America's national award for public service.
Thank you. You just proved my point.
Did 'Junk Science' Make John Edwards Rich?
By Marc Morano
CNSNews.com Senior Staff Writer
January 20, 2004
(CNSNews.com) - The superstar trial lawyer accomplishments of John Edwards,
which allowed this former millworker to amass a personal fortune, finance
his successful U.S. Senate run in 1998 and catapult himself into the 2004
race for president, may have been partially built on "junk science,"
according to legal and medical experts who spoke with CNSNews.com .
Edwards, who with a late surge finished second in Monday's Iowa Caucuses,
continues to cite one of his most lucrative legal victories as an example of
how he would stand up for "the little guy" if elected president.
Edwards became one of America's wealthiest trial lawyers by winning record
jury verdicts and settlements in cases alleging that the botched treatment
of women in labor and their deliveries caused infants to develop cerebral
palsy, a brain disorder that causes motor function impairment and lifelong
disability.
Although he was involved in other types of personal injury litigation,
Edwards specialized in infant cerebral palsy and brain damage cases during
his early days as a trial lawyer and with the Raleigh, N.C., firm of Edwards
& Kirby.
Edwards has repeatedly told campaign audiences that he fought on behalf of
the common man against the large insurance companies. But a political critic
with extensive knowledge of Edwards' legal career in North Carolina told
CNSNews.com a different story
"Edwards always helped the little guy as long as he got a million dollars
out of it," said the source, who did not want to be identified.
The cause of cerebral palsy has been debated since the 19th century. Some
medical studies dating back to at least the 1980s asserted that doctors
could do very little to cause cerebral palsy during the birthing process.
Two new studies in 2003 further undermined the scientific premise of the
high profile court cases that helped Edwards become a multi-millionaire and
finance his own successful campaign for the U.S. Senate.
Dr. Murray Goldstein, a neurologist and the medical director of the United
Cerebral Palsy Research and Educational Foundation, said it is conceivable
for a doctor's incompetence to cause cerebral palsy in an infant. "There are
some cases where the brain damage did occur at the time of delivery. But
it's really unusual. It's really quite unusual," Goldstein said.
"The overwhelming majority of children that are born with developmental
brain damage, the ob/gyn could not have done anything about it, could not
have, not at this stage of what we know," Goldstein added.
The medical and legal experts with whom CNSNews.com consulted said each case
of cerebral palsy had to be evaluated on its own, but that medical science
was increasingly exonerating the doctors involved in the labor and delivery
where cerebral palsy resulted.
Eldon L. Boisseau of the Kansas-based firm Turner and Boisseau, specializing
in defending doctors' insurance companies from medical malpractice lawsuits,
agreed that physician-caused cerebral palsy "occurs only rarely."
"At the end of the day, I verily believe we will find [the cause of cerebral
palsy is] all genetic," Boisseau said in an interview with CNSNews.com.
Dr. John Freeman, a professor of neurology and pediatrics at Johns Hopkins
Hospital in Baltimore, Md., also believes there is little obstetricians can
do to prevent cerebral palsy during delivery. "Most cases of cerebral palsy
are not due to asphyxia," Freeman told CNSNews.com.
"A great many of these cases are due to subtle infections of the child
before birth," Freeman said. "That is the cause of the premature labor and
the cause of the [brain] damage. There is little or no evidence that if you
did a [caesarean] section a short time earlier you would prevent cerebral
palsy," he added.
'Heart wrenching plea'
But some of Edwards' critics say that as a trial lawyer, he relied more on
his verbal skills than the latest scientific evidence to persuade juries
that the doctors' mistakes had been instrumental in causing the cerebral
palsy in the infants.
Edwards' trial summaries "routinely went beyond a recitation of his case to
a heart-wrenching plea to jurors to listen to the unspoken voices of injured
children," according to a comprehensive analysis of Edwards' legal career by
The Boston Globe in 2003.
The Globe cited an example of Edwards' oratorical skills from a medical
malpractice trial in 1985. Edwards had alleged that a doctor and a hospital
had been responsible for the cerebral palsy afflicting then-five-year-old
Jennifer Campbell.
'I have to tell you right now -- I didn't plan to talk about this -- right
now I feel her (Jennifer), I feel her presence,' Edwards told the jury
according to court records. "[Jennifer's] inside me and she's talking to you
.... And this is what she says to you. She says, 'I don't ask for your pity.
What I ask for is your strength. And I don't ask for your sympathy, but I do
ask for your courage.'"
Edwards' emotional plea worked. Jennifer Campbell's family won a record jury
verdict of $6.5 million against the hospital where the girl was born -- a
judgment reduced later to $2.75 million on appeal. Edwards also settled with
Jennifer's obstetrician for $1.5 million.
Legal expert Walter Olson, a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute and
author of the book, The Rule of Lawyers, said Edwards' success in court was
due in large part to his mastery of one important trait.
"Edwards was clearly very good at managing the emotional tenor of a trial
and that turns out to be at least as important as any particular skill in
the sense of researching the fine points of law," Olson told CNSNews.com .
"These are the skills that you find in successful trial lawyers. They can
tell a story that produces a certain emotional response. It's a gift," Olson
added.
However, Olson believes trial lawyers "have been getting away with an awful
lot in cerebral palsy litigation," by excluding certain scientific evidence.
"[Trial lawyers] have been cashing in on cases where the doctor's conduct
probably did not make any difference at all -- cases where the child was
doomed to this condition based on things that happened before they ever got
to the delivery room," Olson said.
'Junk science in the courtroom'
Peter Huber, a lawyer and author of the book, Galileo's Revenge: Junk
Science in the Courtroom, believes juries are typically manipulated with
emotional arguments to aid the plaintiff's case.
"The jury sees the undisputed trauma first, the disputed negligence second,
the undisputed cerebral palsy third. It is a perfect set-up for
misinterpreting sequence as cause," Huber wrote.
According to Boisseau, the growing body of scientific studies showing that
obstetricians are generally blameless in cerebral palsy cases has done
nothing to alter the trend of multi-million dollar court settlements. Those
settlements are reached, Boisseau said, even though "a lot of the
plaintiff's expert science is unsupported, essentially junk science."
Many juries never even get to hear about the medical science or the origins
of cerebral palsy because "90 percent of suits for obstetrical malpractice
are settled" out of court, noted Freeman of Johns Hopkins Hospital.
Huber does not expect cerebral palsy cases to fade away, despite the growing
body of scientific evidence exonerating doctors.
"Despite the almost complete absence of scientific basis for these [medical
malpractice] claims, cerebral palsy cases remain enormously attractive to
lawyers," Huber wrote.
The judgments or settlements related to medical malpractice lawsuits that
focused on brain-damaged infants with cerebral palsy helped Edwards amass a
personal fortune estimated at between $12.8 and $60 million. He and his wife
own three homes, each worth more than $1 million, according to Edwards'
Senate financial disclosure forms. Edwards' old law firm reportedly kept
between 25 and 40 percent of the jury awards/settlements during the time he
worked there.
According to the Center for Public Integrity, Edwards was able to win "more
than $152 million" based on his involvement in 63 lawsuits alone. The legal
profession recognized Edwards' achievements by inducting him into the
prestigious legal society called the Inner Circle of Advocates, which
includes the nation's top 100 lawyers. Lawyers Weekly also cited Edwards as
one of America's "Lawyers of the Year" in 1996.
'The kids and families I've fought for'
Edwards has shifted his emotionally charged speeches from the jury box to
the presidential campaign trail and is fond of re-telling the story of how
his firm sued on behalf of a cerebral palsy-afflicted boy named Ethan
Bedrick in 1996.
Ethan, born in North Carolina in 1992, allegedly developed cerebral palsy
after a botched delivery. Edwards has explained to audiences at presidential
campaign rallies that suing Ethan's insurance carrier, Travelers Insurance
Co., to cover the boy's physical therapy was necessary because "Ethan's
family had no choice.
"[The family was] forced to go to court to get their son the care he
needed," Edwards has said of the case, which his law firm won.
Edwards has repeatedly cited Ethan's case as an example of "the kids and
families I've fought for," and in the minds of many political observers
positioned himself as the classic David against the insurance industry's
Goliath.
However, Edwards has also repeatedly failed to mention that he had
represented Ethan Bedrick in a lawsuit against the boy's obstetrician a year
earlier in 1995. Edwards had alleged that the doctor was negligent in
failing to prevent the boy's oxygen deprivation during labor and therefore
had caused the boy's cerebral palsy.
Edwards settled the malpractice case with the doctor's insurance company
less than three weeks into the trial, enabling Ethan's family to get a
reported $5 million for medical and living expenses. The case was reportedly
the largest medical malpractice settlement in North Carolina history.
'I'm proud of that'
Edwards is not shy about defending his legal career and says he would gladly
put his record up against that of President Bush in this year's general
election.
"The time I spent in courtrooms representing kids and families against, you
know, big insurance companies and big drug companies and big corporate
America -- I'm proud of that," Edwards told the CBS news magazine 60 Minutes
in December 2003.
But Edwards' critics have a different view of the man; they say he has
repeatedly acted to enrich himself.
"John Edwards' spin is always -- I am helping the little guy. But he
screened his cases to the point that he only helped people that were going
to make him richer," said the CNSNews.com source with extensive knowledge of
Edwards' legal career.
Dr. Lorne Hall, one of the physicians with whom Edwards reached a
confidential settlement in a malpractice case involving cerebral palsy,
agreed, telling The Charlotte Observer in 2003 that "[Edwards] knows how to
pick cases, and he knows the ones he can win."
Hall said Edwards was "very polished, very polite, dressed to the T's,
smiling at the ladies." But the anonymous source for this story said Edwards
displayed a "belligerent attitude" toward the medical profession.
"He sued nurses, doctors, hospitals. The reputation he had was -- he never
wanted to hear that nobody did anything wrong. If you even walked by the
door of an alleged malpractice incident, you were gong to cough up money
too," the source said.
But John Hood, president of the free-market, Raleigh, N.C.-based John Locke
Foundation said Edwards tailored the evidence in his court cases for maximum
impact.
"In pursuing his client's cases he did what many other trial lawyers do. He
bent the available evidence to fit what he wanted to say," Hood told
CNSNews.com . "That is the nature of an advocacy system," Hood added
Hood does not fault Edwards for the strategies he used as a trial lawyer.
"He was an advocate for his clients. It was his job to make the best
possible case for them," Hood said.
Many legal observers agree that Edwards was simply doing his job and doing
it very well.
A North Carolina newspaper, The News and Observer, said Edwards "forged a
reputation as one of the most skilled plaintiff's attorneys in the
business."
Retired North Carolina Superior Court Judge Robert Farmer, who heard many of
Edwards' arguments in court, had nothing but praise for the abilities of the
former trial lawyer, turned senator.
"He was probably the best I ever had in the 21 years I had on the bench.
Lawyers would come in to watch him, to see what he does," Farmer told the
Chicago Tribune in December 2003.
'Scientifically unfounded'
Olson said lawsuits blaming obstetricians for cerebral palsy and other
infant brain damage "may constitute the single biggest branch of medical
malpractice litigation." Cerebral palsy is diagnosed in about 8,000 infants
annually in the U.S.
But the recent scientific studies may make those lawsuits "scientifically
unfounded," Olson explained. He contends that the medical malpractice suits
that enabled Edwards and other trial lawyers to become rich and famous are
crippling medical specialties like obstetrics, emergency room medicine and
neurosurgery.
"A few years ago every neurosurgeon in Washington D.C., had been sued, and
it can't be because the nation's capital gets only bad neurosurgeons. It's
because it's too tempting to file against the competent ones because so many
terrible things go wrong with their patients," Olson added.
Edwards, who opposes legislation that would cap damages in liability
lawsuits, would not respond to repeated requests through his campaign
offices for comment.
http://www.cnsnews.com/Politics/Archive/200401/POL20040120a.html
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| User: "Yang, AthD h.c" |
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| Title: Re: Another Conservative Jumping Off of Bush's Sinking Ship Part XVIII (re: Why Are NeoCons so Incompetent?) |
11 Jul 2004 03:42:16 AM |
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On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 00:37:30 +0000 (UTC), Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl>
wrote:
"Yang, AthD (h.c)" <eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> wrote in
news:s5tpe0d73pb20fcfj7lb4qeubdlg0o3r3n@4ax.com:
On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 12:02:21 GMT, Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote:
"Yang, AthD (h.c)" <eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> wrote in
news:695ne0leiq8la44abuj3so86lcni7se2u3@4ax.com:
"In 'Four Trials', John Edwards has written movingly of people who
were terribly wronged, and whom he helped seek some measure of justice
with great skill, determination, and genuine compassion. He shows a
perceptive appreciation in these accounts for the strength of his
clinets' character. And in the loving portrait of his son, Wade, and
the deeply touching account of his losss, John reveals the strength of
his own chracter and gives the reader a look beyond a political
biography into the heart of a good man."
-John McCain
Edwards is nothing more than a sleazy lawyer who got rich from personal
injury trials.
Go ***** yourself
The extent of the intellect of the left.
The moral hypocrisy of the right.
The defining case in Edwards' legal career wrapped up that same year.
In 1993, a five-year-old girl named Valerie Lakey had been playing in
a Wake County, N.C., wading pool when she became caught in an
uncovered drain so forcefully that the suction pulled out most of her
intestines. She survived but for the rest of her life will need to be
hooked up to feeding tubes for 12 hours each night. Edwards filed suit
on the Lakeys' behalf against Sta-Rite Industries, the Wisconsin
corporation that manufactured the drain. Attorneys describe his
handling of the case as a virtuoso example of a trial layer bringing a
negligent corporation to heel. Sta-Rite offered the Lakeys $100,000 to
settle the case. Edwards passed. Before trial, he discovered that 12
other children had suffered similar injuries from Sta-Rite drains. The
company raised its offer to $1.25 million. Two weeks into the trial,
they upped the figure to $8.5 million. Edwards declined the offer and
asked for their insurance policy limit of $22.5 million. The day
before the trial resumed from Christmas break, Sta-Rite countered with
$17.5 million. Again, Edwards said no. On January 10, 1997, lawyers
from across the state packed the courtroom to hear Edwards' closing
argument, "the most impressive legal performance I have ever seen,"
recalls Dayton. Three days later, the jury found Sta-Rite guilty and
liable for $25 million in economic damages (by state law, punitive
damages could have tripled that amount). The company immediately
settled for $25 million, the largest verdict in state history. For
their part, Edwards and Kirby earned the Association of Trial Lawyers
of America's national award for public service.
Thank you. You just proved my point.
Get back to me when you're done sucking off Ken Lay,
-----
Yang
a.a. #28
AthD (h.c.) conferred by the regents of the LCL
a.a. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee Kelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Socerey Division
Proudly plonked by Lani Girl and Crazyalec
The Bush 'balanced' budget: 1.2 trillion and worsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: -3 million jobs and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -879 GIs, one friend's co-worker's son and mounting
Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless
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| User: "Professor Nuh Ooooh" |
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| Title: Re: Another Conservative Jumping Off of Bush's Sinking Ship Part XVIII (re: Why Are NeoCons so Incompetent?) |
11 Jul 2004 09:18:28 AM |
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On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 00:37:30 +0000 (UTC), Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl>
wrote:
"Yang, AthD (h.c)" <eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> wrote in
news:s5tpe0d73pb20fcfj7lb4qeubdlg0o3r3n@4ax.com:
On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 12:02:21 GMT, Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote:
Go ***** yourself
The extent of the intellect of the left.
As exemplified and demonstrated repeatedly, on camera and off,
in official settings, by George Bush and ***** Cheney.
Typical Usenet-Republican hypocrite.
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| User: "TP" |
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| Title: Re: Another Conservative Jumping Off of Bush's Sinking Ship Part XVIII (re: Why Are NeoCons so Incompetent?) |
11 Jul 2004 09:23:25 AM |
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I always get a laugh when conservatives talk about "intellect." With a mope
like dubya, it is very, very funny.
"Professor Nuh Ooooh" <profnuhoh@lgsot.edu> wrote in message
news:kvi2f0p0k9mu8ed62vit0l20nui0n2ri2t@4ax.com...
On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 00:37:30 +0000 (UTC), Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl>
wrote:
"Yang, AthD (h.c)" <eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> wrote in
news:s5tpe0d73pb20fcfj7lb4qeubdlg0o3r3n@4ax.com:
On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 12:02:21 GMT, Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote:
Go ***** yourself
The extent of the intellect of the left.
As exemplified and demonstrated repeatedly, on camera and off,
in official settings, by George Bush and ***** Cheney.
Typical Usenet-Republican hypocrite.
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| User: "Xomicron" |
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| Title: Re: Another Conservative Jumping Off of Bush's Sinking Ship Part XVIII (re: Why Are NeoCons so Incompetent?) |
12 Jul 2004 10:55:41 AM |
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"TP" <thomaspaine@yahoo.com> wrote in news:2ld0quFajm6vU1@uni-berlin.de:
I always get a laugh when conservatives talk about "intellect." With a
mope like dubya, it is very, very funny.
Yet "idiot" Bush graduated from Yale.
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| User: "TP" |
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| Title: Re: Another Conservative Jumping Off of Bush's Sinking Ship Part XVIII (re: Why Are NeoCons so Incompetent?) |
12 Jul 2004 01:40:53 PM |
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Idiot bush had his daddy buy his way in AND out of the place. Money will buy
you anything these days except a brain. Unfortunately, you will never have
one, bought or not.
"Xomicron" <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote in message
news:2880ea10275b921c5d0a465472791ae7@news.bubbanews.com...
"TP" <thomaspaine@yahoo.com> wrote in news:2ld0quFajm6vU1@uni-berlin.de:
I always get a laugh when conservatives talk about "intellect." With a
mope like dubya, it is very, very funny.
Yet "idiot" Bush graduated from Yale.
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| User: "Xomicron" |
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| Title: Re: Another Conservative Jumping Off of Bush's Sinking Ship Part XVIII (re: Why Are NeoCons so Incompetent?) |
12 Jul 2004 01:54:37 PM |
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"TP" <thomaspaine@yahoo.com> wrote in news:2lg49mFciofoU1@uni-berlin.de:
Idiot bush had his daddy buy his way in AND out of the place.
Post proof or shut the ***** up.
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| User: "Shawn Hearn" |
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| Title: Re: Another Conservative Jumping Off of Bush's Sinking Ship Part XVIII (re: Why Are NeoCons so Incompetent?) |
18 Jul 2004 07:36:13 PM |
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In article <b659842b743c5085e97c6c93b609edc1@news.bubbanews.com>,
Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote:
"TP" <thomaspaine@yahoo.com> wrote in news:2lg49mFciofoU1@uni-berlin.de:
Idiot bush had his daddy buy his way in AND out of the place.
Post proof or shut the ***** up.
Really? Since when did proving accusations hold any
importance to you. How about you prove your accusations
against Edwards?
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| User: "Xomicron" |
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| Title: Re: Another Conservative Jumping Off of Bush's Sinking Ship Part XVIII (re: Why Are NeoCons so Incompetent?) |
18 Jul 2004 09:14:50 PM |
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Shawn Hearn <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in
news:srhi-4767A5.20361318072004@news-40.giganews.com:
In article <b659842b743c5085e97c6c93b609edc1@news.bubbanews.com>,
Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote:
"TP" <thomaspaine@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:2lg49mFciofoU1@uni-berlin.de:
Idiot bush had his daddy buy his way in AND out of the place.
Post proof or shut the ***** up.
Really? Since when did proving accusations hold any
importance to you.
Your lack of proof noted.
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| User: "Shawn Hearn" |
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| Title: Re: Another Conservative Jumping Off of Bush's Sinking Ship Part XVIII (re: Why Are NeoCons so Incompetent?) |
19 Jul 2004 05:28:09 AM |
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In article <a-udnesE7JMHs2bdRVn-rw@wavecable.com>,
Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote:
Shawn Hearn <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in
news:srhi-4767A5.20361318072004@news-40.giganews.com:
In article <b659842b743c5085e97c6c93b609edc1@news.bubbanews.com>,
Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote:
"TP" <thomaspaine@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:2lg49mFciofoU1@uni-berlin.de:
Idiot bush had his daddy buy his way in AND out of the place.
Post proof or shut the ***** up.
Really? Since when did proving accusations hold any
importance to you.
Your lack of proof noted.
Yours too.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Another Conservative Jumping Off of Bush's Sinking Ship Part XVIII (re: Why Are NeoCons so Incompetent?) |
18 Jul 2004 09:42:47 PM |
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Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote:
Shawn Hearn <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in
news:srhi-4767A5.20361318072004@news-40.giganews.com:
In article <b659842b743c5085e97c6c93b609edc1@news.bubbanews.com>,
Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote:
"TP" <thomaspaine@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:2lg49mFciofoU1@uni-berlin.de:
Idiot bush had his daddy buy his way in AND out of the place.
Post proof or shut the ***** up.
Really? Since when did proving accusations hold any
importance to you.
Your lack of proof noted.
Your hypocrisy is noted.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "TP" |
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| Title: Re: Another Conservative Jumping Off of Bush's Sinking Ship Part XVIII (re: Why Are NeoCons so Incompetent?) |
12 Jul 2004 02:17:03 PM |
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Post the proof that he DIDN'T do it this way or go shoot yourself. Don't
make it a head shot though. The only thing you will accomplish is a mass
escape of air. You're dismissed and plonk your silly *****.
"Xomicron" <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote in message
news:b659842b743c5085e97c6c93b609edc1@news.bubbanews.com...
"TP" <thomaspaine@yahoo.com> wrote in news:2lg49mFciofoU1@uni-berlin.de:
Idiot bush had his daddy buy his way in AND out of the place.
Post proof or shut the ***** up.
.
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| User: "Xomicron" |
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| Title: Re: Another Conservative Jumping Off of Bush's Sinking Ship Part XVIII (re: Why Are NeoCons so Incompetent?) |
12 Jul 2004 02:12:25 PM |
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"TP" <thomaspaine@yahoo.com> wrote in news:2lg6dgFc8mfuU1@uni-berlin.de:
"Xomicron" <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote in message
news:b659842b743c5085e97c6c93b609edc1@news.bubbanews.com...
"TP" <thomaspaine@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:2lg49mFciofoU1@uni-berlin.de:
Idiot bush had his daddy buy his way in AND out of the place.
Post proof or shut the ***** up.
Post the proof that he DIDN'T do it this way
Sorry. The burden of proof is on you and you lack of proof is duly noted.
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| User: "BOB SD" |
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| Title: Re: Another Conservative Jumping Off of Bush's Sinking Ship Part XVIII (re: Why Are NeoCons so Incompetent?) |
12 Jul 2004 03:37:53 PM |
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Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote in news:37656eff322dfa95bbc290dfd08ec4f5
@news.bubbanews.com:
"TP" <thomaspaine@yahoo.com> wrote in news:2lg6dgFc8mfuU1@uni-berlin.de:
"Xomicron" <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote in message
news:b659842b743c5085e97c6c93b609edc1@news.bubbanews.com...
"TP" <thomaspaine@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:2lg49mFciofoU1@uni-berlin.de:
Idiot bush had his daddy buy his way in AND out of the place.
Post proof or shut the ***** up.
Post the proof that he DIDN'T do it this way
Sorry. The burden of proof is on you and you lack of proof is duly
noted.
The proof is in the pudding. Bush is obviously an blithering idiot so how
else could he have made it?
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Another Conservative Jumping Off of Bush's Sinking Ship Part XVIII (re: Why Are NeoCons so Incompetent?) |
13 Jul 2004 01:14:53 AM |
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Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote:
"TP" <thomaspaine@yahoo.com> wrote in news:2lg49mFciofoU1@uni-berlin.de:
Idiot bush had his daddy buy his way in AND out of the place.
Post proof or shut the ***** up.
Smirk. I'd say that W hisself has provided ample evidence.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Xomicron" |
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| Title: Re: Another Conservative Jumping Off of Bush's Sinking Ship Part XVIII (re: Why Are NeoCons so Incompetent?) |
13 Jul 2004 11:27:38 AM |
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(Ray Fischer) wrote in
news:ccvuks$knp$1@bolt.sonic.net:
Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote:
"TP" <thomaspaine@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:2lg49mFciofoU1@uni-berlin.de:
Idiot bush had his daddy buy his way in AND out of the place.
Post proof or shut the ***** up.
Smirk. I'd say that W hisself has provided ample evidence.
Your lack of proof, as usual, is noted.
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