| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Speed" |
| Date: |
03 Apr 2007 08:09:29 PM |
| Object: |
Another dumb evolution question |
The fact that humans share an extremely close DNA match with the apes
is undeniable. That we had some common ancestor is obvious. But how
did homo sapiens somehow shoot off into its own orbit, building cities
and rockets, creating music and art and pondering the meaning of life,
while all of our ape cousins still live just as they did millions of
years ago? What was the spark that turbo-charged our development?
I've always loved the opening sequence in 2001: A Space Odyssey; it
would explain a lot. *Something* seems to have given us clever apes a
big push forward.
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| User: "Brian E. Clark" |
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| Title: Re: Another dumb evolution question |
04 Apr 2007 07:17:48 PM |
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In article <jcu513181nd982klck90045kf0f3slcl7r@4ax.com>,
Speed said...
What was the spark that turbo-charged our development?
I speak therefore I am.
--
-----------
Brian E. Clark
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| User: "quibbler" |
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| Title: Re: Another dumb evolution question |
09 Apr 2007 11:37:52 AM |
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In article <jcu513181nd982klck90045kf0f3slcl7r@4ax.com>,
says...
I've always loved the opening sequence in 2001: A Space Odyssey; it
would explain a lot. *Something* seems to have given us clever apes a
big push forward.
Maybe multiple things did. High protein diets may have facilitated
brain growth. However, our ability to develop technology was a
relatively recent innovation facilitated by more complex language,
writing and agriculture, among other things. If we didn't have writing
to learn from previous generations and we had to spend all our time
hunting for food, we wouldn't have time to develop complex civilization
(and the all the attendant good and ill thereof).
--
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
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| User: "Witziges Rätsel" |
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| Title: Re: Another dumb evolution question |
09 Apr 2007 11:49:29 AM |
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I've always loved the opening sequence in 2001: A Space Odyssey; it
would explain a lot. *Something* seems to have given us clever apes a
big push forward.
Maybe multiple things did. High protein diets may have facilitated
brain growth. However, our ability to develop technology was a
relatively recent innovation facilitated by more complex language,
writing and agriculture, among other things. If we didn't have writing
to learn from previous generations and we had to spend all our time
hunting for food, we wouldn't have time to develop complex civilization
(and the all the attendant good and ill thereof).
"Intelligence is was intelligence does."
-Urban Gump, Forrest's little-known younger brother.
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: Another dumb evolution question |
03 Apr 2007 09:41:02 PM |
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On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 18:09:29 -0700 there was an Ancient Speed
<nope@nope.com> who stoppeth one in alt.atheism
The fact that humans share an extremely close DNA match with the apes
is undeniable. That we had some common ancestor is obvious. But how
did homo sapiens somehow shoot off into its own orbit, building cities
and rockets, creating music and art and pondering the meaning of life,
while all of our ape cousins still live just as they did millions of
years ago? What was the spark that turbo-charged our development?
A couple of things. The big one being a climate change in Africa.
East Africa entered one of its period dry eras, and the forests began
thinning out. We, and the other primates, had to adapt to life on the
veldt. Being able to stand on two limbs allowed us to see further, and
was an advantage. That freed up our hands, allowing us to use tools
more often.
As for the big brains, most primates have them. The best theory as we
competed with the other primates on the veldt, our ability to
out-think the "enemy" gave us a leg up. We made better tools,
socilized and cooperated better, and eliminated the competition.
I've always loved the opening sequence in 2001: A Space Odyssey; it
would explain a lot. *Something* seems to have given us clever apes a
big push forward.
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2011
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the
source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a
stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as
good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein
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| User: "Pangur Ban" |
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| Title: Re: Another dumb evolution question |
03 Apr 2007 10:33:28 PM |
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Douglas Berry expressed precisely :
On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 18:09:29 -0700 there was an Ancient Speed
<nope@nope.com> who stoppeth one in alt.atheism
The fact that humans share an extremely close DNA match with the apes
is undeniable. That we had some common ancestor is obvious. But how
did homo sapiens somehow shoot off into its own orbit, building cities
and rockets, creating music and art and pondering the meaning of life,
while all of our ape cousins still live just as they did millions of
years ago? What was the spark that turbo-charged our development?
A couple of things. The big one being a climate change in Africa.
East Africa entered one of its period dry eras, and the forests began
thinning out. We, and the other primates, had to adapt to life on the
veldt. Being able to stand on two limbs allowed us to see further, and
was an advantage. That freed up our hands, allowing us to use tools
more often.
Which some theorize enabled us to eat more meat - scavenged or killed -
which fueled the bigger brains which fueled better tools which fueled
better killing (and more meat) which fueled.......
As for the big brains, most primates have them. The best theory as we
competed with the other primates on the veldt, our ability to
out-think the "enemy" gave us a leg up. We made better tools,
socilized and cooperated better, and eliminated the competition.
I've always loved the opening sequence in 2001: A Space Odyssey; it
would explain a lot. *Something* seems to have given us clever apes a
big push forward.
--
Pangur Ban
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing" Edmund Burke
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| User: "Dubh Ghall" |
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| Title: Re: Another dumb evolution question |
04 Apr 2007 01:48:14 PM |
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On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 21:33:28 -0600, Pangur Ban <Whistleblower@att.net>
wrote:
Douglas Berry expressed precisely :
On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 18:09:29 -0700 there was an Ancient Speed
<nope@nope.com> who stoppeth one in alt.atheism
The fact that humans share an extremely close DNA match with the apes
is undeniable. That we had some common ancestor is obvious. But how
did homo sapiens somehow shoot off into its own orbit, building cities
and rockets, creating music and art and pondering the meaning of life,
while all of our ape cousins still live just as they did millions of
years ago? What was the spark that turbo-charged our development?
A couple of things. The big one being a climate change in Africa.
East Africa entered one of its period dry eras, and the forests began
thinning out. We, and the other primates, had to adapt to life on the
veldt. Being able to stand on two limbs allowed us to see further, and
was an advantage. That freed up our hands, allowing us to use tools
more often.
Which some theorize enabled us to eat more meat - scavenged or killed -
which fueled the bigger brains which fueled better tools which fueled
better killing (and more meat) which fueled.......
I would suggest a sort of spiral effect. Our developing brains gave
us the ability to get more meat. The meat nourished us more
efficiently than fruit or vegetables, leaving us with more leisure
time to ***** about, try to out smart the alpha male in the breeding
stakes, exercise those brains, and dream up better ways of getting
meat.
...And round, and round, little by little.
--
The spelling Like any opinion stated here
purely my own
#162 BAAWA Knight.
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| User: "Pangur Ban" |
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| Title: Re: Another dumb evolution question |
04 Apr 2007 09:04:48 PM |
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Dubh Ghall submitted this idea :
On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 21:33:28 -0600, Pangur Ban <Whistleblower@att.net>
wrote:
Douglas Berry expressed precisely :
On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 18:09:29 -0700 there was an Ancient Speed
<nope@nope.com> who stoppeth one in alt.atheism
The fact that humans share an extremely close DNA match with the apes
is undeniable. That we had some common ancestor is obvious. But how
did homo sapiens somehow shoot off into its own orbit, building cities
and rockets, creating music and art and pondering the meaning of life,
while all of our ape cousins still live just as they did millions of
years ago? What was the spark that turbo-charged our development?
A couple of things. The big one being a climate change in Africa.
East Africa entered one of its period dry eras, and the forests began
thinning out. We, and the other primates, had to adapt to life on the
veldt. Being able to stand on two limbs allowed us to see further, and
was an advantage. That freed up our hands, allowing us to use tools
more often.
Which some theorize enabled us to eat more meat - scavenged or killed -
which fueled the bigger brains which fueled better tools which fueled
better killing (and more meat) which fueled.......
I would suggest a sort of spiral effect. Our developing brains gave
us the ability to get more meat. The meat nourished us more
efficiently than fruit or vegetables, leaving us with more leisure
time to ***** about, try to out smart the alpha male in the breeding
stakes, exercise those brains, and dream up better ways of getting
meat.
..And round, and round, little by little.
I was visualizing a widening spiral as I wrote ... more meat, bigger
brains, more innovations, "healthier" bodies(?), more children(?)
--
Pangur Ban
Nemo repente fuit turpissimus.
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| User: "Dubh Ghall" |
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| Title: Re: Another dumb evolution question |
05 Apr 2007 08:56:49 AM |
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On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 20:04:48 -0600, Pangur Ban <Whistleblower@att.net>
wrote:
..And round, and round, little by little.
I was visualizing a widening spiral as I wrote ... more meat, bigger
brains, more innovations, "healthier" bodies(?), more children(?)
Yep, no argument with that at all.
We see the beginnings of it in the great apes, adapting their
environment to them selves, by building sleeping nest each night.
Then there is the use of tools, and their ability to teach others, or
learn how, from them.
Their ability to plan ahead, is clearly seen in their hunting
techniques.
It is easy to picture our selves at that stage, four million years
ago.
--
The spelling Like any opinion stated here
purely my own
#162 BAAWA Knight.
.
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| User: "Pangur Ban" |
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| Title: Re: Another dumb evolution question |
05 Apr 2007 11:13:41 AM |
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Dubh Ghall wrote after much deliberation:
On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 20:04:48 -0600, Pangur Ban <Whistleblower@att.net>
wrote:
..And round, and round, little by little.
I was visualizing a widening spiral as I wrote ... more meat, bigger
brains, more innovations, "healthier" bodies(?), more children(?)
Yep, no argument with that at all.
We see the beginnings of it in the great apes, adapting their
environment to them selves, by building sleeping nest each night.
Then there is the use of tools, and their ability to teach others, or
learn how, from them.
Their ability to plan ahead, is clearly seen in their hunting
techniques.
Our cousins.....
It is easy to picture our selves at that stage, four million years
ago.
And some of those documentaries exploring early mankind help the
picturing - wish I could remember the program names.... Alec Baldwin
was narrator for one. Trust me to remember the man - but not the name
of the program. :-)
--
Pangur Ban
"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a
well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways ......totally
worn-out..... shouting, 'Yeehaw.....what a ride!'"
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| User: "Dubh Ghall" |
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| Title: Re: Another dumb evolution question |
05 Apr 2007 06:30:12 PM |
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On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 10:13:41 -0600, Pangur Ban <Whistleblower@att.net>
wrote:
Dubh Ghall wrote after much deliberation:
On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 20:04:48 -0600, Pangur Ban <Whistleblower@att.net>
wrote:
..And round, and round, little by little.
I was visualizing a widening spiral as I wrote ... more meat, bigger
brains, more innovations, "healthier" bodies(?), more children(?)
Yep, no argument with that at all.
We see the beginnings of it in the great apes, adapting their
environment to them selves, by building sleeping nest each night.
Then there is the use of tools, and their ability to teach others, or
learn how, from them.
Their ability to plan ahead, is clearly seen in their hunting
techniques.
Our cousins.....
It is easy to picture our selves at that stage, four million years
ago.
And some of those documentaries exploring early mankind help the
picturing - wish I could remember the program names.... Alec Baldwin
was narrator for one. Trust me to remember the man - but not the name
of the program. :-)
Tell me about it. (:-/
--
The spelling Like any opinion stated here
purely my own
#162 BAAWA Knight.
.
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| User: "Pangur Ban" |
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| Title: Re: Another dumb evolution question |
05 Apr 2007 09:41:37 PM |
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Dubh Ghall expressed precisely :
On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 10:13:41 -0600, Pangur Ban <Whistleblower@att.net>
wrote:
Dubh Ghall wrote after much deliberation:
On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 20:04:48 -0600, Pangur Ban <Whistleblower@att.net>
wrote:
..And round, and round, little by little.
I was visualizing a widening spiral as I wrote ... more meat, bigger
brains, more innovations, "healthier" bodies(?), more children(?)
Yep, no argument with that at all.
We see the beginnings of it in the great apes, adapting their
environment to them selves, by building sleeping nest each night.
Then there is the use of tools, and their ability to teach others, or
learn how, from them.
Their ability to plan ahead, is clearly seen in their hunting
techniques.
Our cousins.....
It is easy to picture our selves at that stage, four million years
ago.
And some of those documentaries exploring early mankind help the
picturing - wish I could remember the program names.... Alec Baldwin
was narrator for one. Trust me to remember the man - but not the name
of the program. :-)
Tell me about it. (:-/
lol
--
Pangur Ban - funter
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| User: "Pastor Kutchie, ordained atheist minister" |
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| Title: Re: Another dumb evolution question |
04 Apr 2007 08:57:32 AM |
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On Apr 4, 2:09 am, Speed <n...@nope.com> wrote:
The fact that humans share an extremely close DNA match with the apes
is undeniable. That we had some common ancestor is obvious. But how
did homo sapiens somehow shoot off into its own orbit, building cities
and rockets, creating music and art and pondering the meaning of life,
while all of our ape cousins still live just as they did millions of
years ago? What was the spark that turbo-charged our development?
I've always loved the opening sequence in 2001: A Space Odyssey; it
would explain a lot. *Something* seems to have given us clever apes a
big push forward.
Having to live on food that required imagination to find, and tools to
extract e.g. bone marrow, brain tissue.
.
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| User: "Ben Kaufman" |
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| Title: Re: Another dumb evolution question |
04 Apr 2007 10:48:03 AM |
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On 4 Apr 2007 06:57:32 -0700, "Pastor Kutchie, ordained atheist minister"
<user13@heathens.org.uk> wrote:
On Apr 4, 2:09 am, Speed <n...@nope.com> wrote:
The fact that humans share an extremely close DNA match with the apes
is undeniable. That we had some common ancestor is obvious. But how
did homo sapiens somehow shoot off into its own orbit, building cities
and rockets, creating music and art and pondering the meaning of life,
while all of our ape cousins still live just as they did millions of
years ago? What was the spark that turbo-charged our development?
I've always loved the opening sequence in 2001: A Space Odyssey; it
would explain a lot. *Something* seems to have given us clever apes a
big push forward.
Having to live on food that required imagination to find, and tools to
extract e.g. bone marrow, brain tissue.
Yep, it's a good thing that gods didn't help us out back then or we'd never
have evolved any further. :-)
Ben
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Another dumb evolution question |
04 Apr 2007 12:58:36 AM |
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On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 18:09:29 -0700, Speed <nope@nope.com> wrote:
- Refer: <jcu513181nd982klck90045kf0f3slcl7r@4ax.com>
The fact that humans share an extremely close DNA match with the apes
is undeniable. That we had some common ancestor is obvious. But how
did homo sapiens somehow shoot off into its own orbit, building cities
and rockets, creating music and art and pondering the meaning of life,
while all of our ape cousins still live just as they did millions of
years ago? What was the spark that turbo-charged our development?
I've always loved the opening sequence in 2001: A Space Odyssey; it
would explain a lot. *Something* seems to have given us clever apes a
big push forward.
The real answer is that no one knows.
--
.
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| User: "Ben Kaufman" |
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| Title: Re: Another dumb evolution question |
04 Apr 2007 10:40:40 AM |
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On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 15:28:36 +0930, Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 18:09:29 -0700, Speed <nope@nope.com> wrote:
- Refer: <jcu513181nd982klck90045kf0f3slcl7r@4ax.com>
The fact that humans share an extremely close DNA match with the apes
is undeniable. That we had some common ancestor is obvious. But how
did homo sapiens somehow shoot off into its own orbit, building cities
and rockets, creating music and art and pondering the meaning of life,
while all of our ape cousins still live just as they did millions of
years ago? What was the spark that turbo-charged our development?
I've always loved the opening sequence in 2001: A Space Odyssey; it
would explain a lot. *Something* seems to have given us clever apes a
big push forward.
The real answer is that no one knows.
C'mon, Rev. asshat knows.! ;-)
Ben
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Another dumb evolution question |
04 Apr 2007 06:53:14 PM |
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On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 11:40:40 -0400, Ben Kaufman
<spaXm-mXe-anXd-paXy-5000-dollars@pobox.com> wrote:
- Refer: <qmh713tq1tn5nqe1r2i1u579tc6hp1811g@4ax.com>
On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 15:28:36 +0930, Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 18:09:29 -0700, Speed <nope@nope.com> wrote:
- Refer: <jcu513181nd982klck90045kf0f3slcl7r@4ax.com>
The fact that humans share an extremely close DNA match with the apes
is undeniable. That we had some common ancestor is obvious. But how
did homo sapiens somehow shoot off into its own orbit, building cities
and rockets, creating music and art and pondering the meaning of life,
while all of our ape cousins still live just as they did millions of
years ago? What was the spark that turbo-charged our development?
I've always loved the opening sequence in 2001: A Space Odyssey; it
would explain a lot. *Something* seems to have given us clever apes a
big push forward.
The real answer is that no one knows.
C'mon, Rev. asshat knows.! ;-)
Hey Louie. Asshat knows too much.
Gets my drift?
--
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: Another dumb evolution question |
04 Apr 2007 07:28:06 AM |
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On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 18:09:29 -0700, in alt.atheism , Speed
<nope@nope.com> in <jcu513181nd982klck90045kf0f3slcl7r@4ax.com> wrote:
The fact that humans share an extremely close DNA match with the apes
is undeniable. That we had some common ancestor is obvious. But how
did homo sapiens somehow shoot off into its own orbit, building cities
and rockets, creating music and art and pondering the meaning of life,
while all of our ape cousins still live just as they did millions of
years ago? What was the spark that turbo-charged our development?
I've always loved the opening sequence in 2001: A Space Odyssey; it
would explain a lot. *Something* seems to have given us clever apes a
big push forward.
This is an area of (biased) research. We humans are quite proud of
what we humans have done. Try to remember that overwhelmingly most
life on Earth (by number, weight, by whatever scale you use) is single
celled. There is far more weight of ants in the world than humans
(more than mammals IIANM).
Of, now to your question. I suspect that our development of language
was a major force in the difference you see. It is a small difference
in genetics, but leads to a pretty big difference in production. Other
animals have language of some sort, but none of them have our
sophistication. With language comes our ability to work together and
to remember the past in great detail.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
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| User: "John Popelish" |
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| Title: Re: Another dumb evolution question |
03 Apr 2007 07:15:14 PM |
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Speed wrote:
The fact that humans share an extremely close DNA match with the apes
is undeniable. That we had some common ancestor is obvious. But how
did homo sapiens somehow shoot off into its own orbit, building cities
and rockets, creating music and art and pondering the meaning of life,
while all of our ape cousins still live just as they did millions of
years ago? What was the spark that turbo-charged our development?
I've always loved the opening sequence in 2001: A Space Odyssey; it
would explain a lot. *Something* seems to have given us clever apes a
big push forward.
The hypothesis I heard, years ago was that a mutation
started us on the path to large brain size, and everything
else followed. But I think evidence is accumulating that
shows that upright posture came first (before larger
brains), and the availability of hands for carrying and tool
use may be the spark that led to evolutionary pressure
favoring larger brains that made better and better use of
those newly available hands.
.
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| User: "TheLetterK" |
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| Title: Re: Another dumb evolution question |
04 Apr 2007 10:27:36 AM |
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John Popelish wrote:
Speed wrote:
The fact that humans share an extremely close DNA match with the apes
is undeniable. That we had some common ancestor is obvious. But how
did homo sapiens somehow shoot off into its own orbit, building cities
and rockets, creating music and art and pondering the meaning of life,
while all of our ape cousins still live just as they did millions of
years ago? What was the spark that turbo-charged our development?
I've always loved the opening sequence in 2001: A Space Odyssey; it
would explain a lot. *Something* seems to have given us clever apes a
big push forward.
The hypothesis I heard, years ago was that a mutation started us on the
path to large brain size, and everything else followed. But I think
evidence is accumulating that shows that upright posture came first
(before larger brains), and the availability of hands for carrying and
tool use may be the spark that led to evolutionary pressure favoring
larger brains that made better and better use of those newly available
hands.
That would not explain why there was such a huge gap between bipedalism
and the evolution of the large brain in hominids.
.
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| User: "Speed" |
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| Title: Re: Another dumb evolution question |
03 Apr 2007 08:53:37 PM |
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On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 21:15:14 -0300, John Popelish <jpopelish@rica.net>
wrote:
Speed wrote:
The fact that humans share an extremely close DNA match with the apes
is undeniable. That we had some common ancestor is obvious. But how
did homo sapiens somehow shoot off into its own orbit, building cities
and rockets, creating music and art and pondering the meaning of life,
while all of our ape cousins still live just as they did millions of
years ago? What was the spark that turbo-charged our development?
I've always loved the opening sequence in 2001: A Space Odyssey; it
would explain a lot. *Something* seems to have given us clever apes a
big push forward.
The hypothesis I heard, years ago was that a mutation
started us on the path to large brain size, and everything
else followed. But I think evidence is accumulating that
shows that upright posture came first (before larger
brains), and the availability of hands for carrying and tool
use may be the spark that led to evolutionary pressure
favoring larger brains that made better and better use of
those newly available hands.
Hmmm, could be. It's always been a mystery to me why we are
(apparently) the only species on earth that has the ability to be
self-reflective, to worry about the future, to dwell on the past, to
create art...By all rights we should still be wandering in the forests
picking fruit off the trees.
.
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| User: "Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" |
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| Title: Re: Another dumb evolution question |
03 Apr 2007 09:21:34 PM |
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"Speed" <nope@nope.com> wrote in message
news:vr06139nb03tj8mpckbje76mo7qqq2uu77@4ax.com...
On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 21:15:14 -0300, John Popelish <jpopelish@rica.net>
wrote:
Speed wrote:
The fact that humans share an extremely close DNA match with the apes
is undeniable. That we had some common ancestor is obvious. But how
did homo sapiens somehow shoot off into its own orbit, building cities
and rockets, creating music and art and pondering the meaning of life,
while all of our ape cousins still live just as they did millions of
years ago? What was the spark that turbo-charged our development?
I've always loved the opening sequence in 2001: A Space Odyssey; it
would explain a lot. *Something* seems to have given us clever apes a
big push forward.
The hypothesis I heard, years ago was that a mutation
started us on the path to large brain size, and everything
else followed. But I think evidence is accumulating that
shows that upright posture came first (before larger
brains), and the availability of hands for carrying and tool
use may be the spark that led to evolutionary pressure
favoring larger brains that made better and better use of
those newly available hands.
Hmmm, could be. It's always been a mystery to me why we are
(apparently) the only species on earth that has the ability to be
self-reflective, to worry about the future, to dwell on the past, to
create art...By all rights we should still be wandering in the forests
picking fruit off the trees.
My ancestors killed those people... or at least made better
tools and shelter.
--
rb
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| User: "Brian E. Clark" |
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| Title: Re: Another dumb evolution question |
04 Apr 2007 07:16:38 PM |
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In article <vr06139nb03tj8mpckbje76mo7qqq2uu77@4ax.com>,
Speed said...
Hmmm, could be. It's always been a mystery to me why we are
(apparently) the only species on earth that has the ability to be
self-reflective,
How can we be sure? I don't speak dolphin or chimpanzee.
[...]
By all rights we should still be wandering in the forests
picking fruit off the trees.
"We" did that for a hundred thousand years even after we
had evolved into modern Homo sapiens. Relative the age of
our species, agriculture is still a recent invention.
--
-----------
Brian E. Clark
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| User: "Ben Kaufman" |
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| Title: Re: Another dumb evolution question |
04 Apr 2007 10:38:13 AM |
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On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 18:53:37 -0700, Speed <nope@nope.com> wrote:
On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 21:15:14 -0300, John Popelish <jpopelish@rica.net>
wrote:
Speed wrote:
The fact that humans share an extremely close DNA match with the apes
is undeniable. That we had some common ancestor is obvious. But how
did homo sapiens somehow shoot off into its own orbit, building cities
and rockets, creating music and art and pondering the meaning of life,
while all of our ape cousins still live just as they did millions of
years ago? What was the spark that turbo-charged our development?
I've always loved the opening sequence in 2001: A Space Odyssey; it
would explain a lot. *Something* seems to have given us clever apes a
big push forward.
The hypothesis I heard, years ago was that a mutation
started us on the path to large brain size, and everything
else followed. But I think evidence is accumulating that
shows that upright posture came first (before larger
brains), and the availability of hands for carrying and tool
use may be the spark that led to evolutionary pressure
favoring larger brains that made better and better use of
those newly available hands.
Hmmm, could be. It's always been a mystery to me why we are
(apparently) the only species on earth that has the ability to be
self-reflective, to worry about the future, to dwell on the past, to
create art...By all rights we should still be wandering in the forests
picking fruit off the trees.
This is incorrect. Elephants and other apes have demonstrated various degrees
of these qualities.
Ben
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: Another dumb evolution question |
04 Apr 2007 07:30:15 AM |
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On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 18:53:37 -0700, in alt.atheism , Speed
<nope@nope.com> in <vr06139nb03tj8mpckbje76mo7qqq2uu77@4ax.com> wrote:
On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 21:15:14 -0300, John Popelish <jpopelish@rica.net>
wrote:
Speed wrote:
The fact that humans share an extremely close DNA match with the apes
is undeniable. That we had some common ancestor is obvious. But how
did homo sapiens somehow shoot off into its own orbit, building cities
and rockets, creating music and art and pondering the meaning of life,
while all of our ape cousins still live just as they did millions of
years ago? What was the spark that turbo-charged our development?
I've always loved the opening sequence in 2001: A Space Odyssey; it
would explain a lot. *Something* seems to have given us clever apes a
big push forward.
The hypothesis I heard, years ago was that a mutation
started us on the path to large brain size, and everything
else followed. But I think evidence is accumulating that
shows that upright posture came first (before larger
brains), and the availability of hands for carrying and tool
use may be the spark that led to evolutionary pressure
favoring larger brains that made better and better use of
those newly available hands.
Hmmm, could be. It's always been a mystery to me why we are
(apparently) the only species on earth that has the ability to be
self-reflective, to worry about the future, to dwell on the past, to
create art...By all rights we should still be wandering in the forests
picking fruit off the trees.
We are the only organisms with human abilities, sort of exactly what
we expect. Your list is developed in large part *because* they are the
things we think separate us from other animals. Now as it happens that
chimps can do art of some sort and seem to have some self-reflection.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
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| User: "chibiabos" |
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| Title: Re: Another dumb evolution question |
04 Apr 2007 04:47:28 PM |
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In article <3f6713htlthvtk209287b6162c27q3f2l8@4ax.com>, Matt
Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 18:53:37 -0700, in alt.atheism , Speed
<nope@nope.com> in <vr06139nb03tj8mpckbje76mo7qqq2uu77@4ax.com> wrote:
On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 21:15:14 -0300, John Popelish <jpopelish@rica.net>
wrote:
Speed wrote:
The fact that humans share an extremely close DNA match with the apes
is undeniable. That we had some common ancestor is obvious. But how
did homo sapiens somehow shoot off into its own orbit, building cities
and rockets, creating music and art and pondering the meaning of life,
while all of our ape cousins still live just as they did millions of
years ago? What was the spark that turbo-charged our development?
I've always loved the opening sequence in 2001: A Space Odyssey; it
would explain a lot. *Something* seems to have given us clever apes a
big push forward.
The hypothesis I heard, years ago was that a mutation
started us on the path to large brain size, and everything
else followed. But I think evidence is accumulating that
shows that upright posture came first (before larger
brains), and the availability of hands for carrying and tool
use may be the spark that led to evolutionary pressure
favoring larger brains that made better and better use of
those newly available hands.
Hmmm, could be. It's always been a mystery to me why we are
(apparently) the only species on earth that has the ability to be
self-reflective, to worry about the future, to dwell on the past, to
create art...By all rights we should still be wandering in the forests
picking fruit off the trees.
We are the only organisms with human abilities, sort of exactly what
we expect. Your list is developed in large part *because* they are the
things we think separate us from other animals. Now as it happens that
chimps can do art of some sort and seem to have some self-reflection.
And, just like us, they'll take your face off in an instant.
-chib
--
Member of SMASH
Sarcastic Middle-Aged Atheists with a Sense of Humor
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: Another dumb evolution question |
04 Apr 2007 05:42:20 PM |
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On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 14:47:28 -0700, in alt.atheism , chibiabos
<chibiabos@nospam.com> in <040420071447288470%chibiabos@nospam.com>
wrote:
In article <3f6713htlthvtk209287b6162c27q3f2l8@4ax.com>, Matt
Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
[snip]
We are the only organisms with human abilities, sort of exactly what
we expect. Your list is developed in large part *because* they are the
things we think separate us from other animals. Now as it happens that
chimps can do art of some sort and seem to have some self-reflection.
And, just like us, they'll take your face off in an instant.
Saw a nice quote the other day :
"The opposite of the human is not the animals, the opposite of the
human is the demonic."
Abraham Joshua Heschel
One of those things you really wish were true.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Another dumb evolution question |
03 Apr 2007 09:33:31 PM |
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One fine day in alt.atheism, Speed <nope@nope.com> bloodied us up with
this:
On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 21:15:14 -0300, John Popelish <jpopelish@rica.net>
wrote:
Speed wrote:
The fact that humans share an extremely close DNA match with the
apes is undeniable. That we had some common ancestor is obvious. But
how did homo sapiens somehow shoot off into its own orbit, building
cities and rockets, creating music and art and pondering the meaning
of life, while all of our ape cousins still live just as they did
millions of years ago? What was the spark that turbo-charged our
development?
I've always loved the opening sequence in 2001: A Space Odyssey; it
would explain a lot. *Something* seems to have given us clever apes
a big push forward.
The hypothesis I heard, years ago was that a mutation
started us on the path to large brain size, and everything
else followed. But I think evidence is accumulating that
shows that upright posture came first (before larger
brains), and the availability of hands for carrying and tool
use may be the spark that led to evolutionary pressure
favoring larger brains that made better and better use of
those newly available hands.
Hmmm, could be. It's always been a mystery to me why we are
(apparently) the only species on earth that has the ability to be
self-reflective, to worry about the future, to dwell on the past, to
create art...By all rights we should still be wandering in the forests
picking fruit off the trees.
There is a sub-species of homo sapiens that still does this. They're
called homo fundus bornagainius. They can be found grazing in the Ozark
mountains, brewing white lightnin'. Their mating season has recently
been replaced with a curious desire to migrate from state to state,
stuffing republican voting booths on election day.
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Convicted by Earthquack. Plonked by Fester.
Member Duke Spanking Club.
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: Another dumb evolution question |
03 Apr 2007 10:10:51 PM |
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On 04 Apr 2007 02:33:31 GMT, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com> wrote:
One fine day in alt.atheism, Speed <nope@nope.com> bloodied us up with
this:
On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 21:15:14 -0300, John Popelish <jpopelish@rica.net>
wrote:
Speed wrote:
The fact that humans share an extremely close DNA match with the
apes is undeniable. That we had some common ancestor is obvious. But
how did homo sapiens somehow shoot off into its own orbit, building
cities and rockets, creating music and art and pondering the meaning
of life, while all of our ape cousins still live just as they did
millions of years ago? What was the spark that turbo-charged our
development?
I've always loved the opening sequence in 2001: A Space Odyssey; it
would explain a lot. *Something* seems to have given us clever apes
a big push forward.
The hypothesis I heard, years ago was that a mutation
started us on the path to large brain size, and everything
else followed. But I think evidence is accumulating that
shows that upright posture came first (before larger
brains), and the availability of hands for carrying and tool
use may be the spark that led to evolutionary pressure
favoring larger brains that made better and better use of
those newly available hands.
Hmmm, could be. It's always been a mystery to me why we are
(apparently) the only species on earth that has the ability to be
self-reflective, to worry about the future, to dwell on the past, to
create art...By all rights we should still be wandering in the forests
picking fruit off the trees.
There is a sub-species of homo sapiens that still does this. They're
called homo fundus bornagainius. They can be found grazing in the Ozark
mountains, brewing white lightnin'. Their mating season has recently
been replaced with a curious desire to migrate from state to state,
stuffing republican voting booths on election day.
Would this species be an evolutionary offshoot of the type species,
Fundamentalus ignoramus?
.
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| User: "Ben Kaufman" |
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| Title: Re: Another dumb evolution question |
04 Apr 2007 10:39:18 AM |
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On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 23:10:51 -0400, John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote:
On 04 Apr 2007 02:33:31 GMT, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com> wrote:
One fine day in alt.atheism, Speed <nope@nope.com> bloodied us up with
this:
On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 21:15:14 -0300, John Popelish <jpopelish@rica.net>
wrote:
Speed wrote:
The fact that humans share an extremely close DNA match with the
apes is undeniable. That we had some common ancestor is obvious. But
how did homo sapiens somehow shoot off into its own orbit, building
cities and rockets, creating music and art and pondering the meaning
of life, while all of our ape cousins still live just as they did
millions of years ago? What was the spark that turbo-charged our
development?
I've always loved the opening sequence in 2001: A Space Odyssey; it
would explain a lot. *Something* seems to have given us clever apes
a big push forward.
The hypothesis I heard, years ago was that a mutation
started us on the path to large brain size, and everything
else followed. But I think evidence is accumulating that
shows that upright posture came first (before larger
brains), and the availability of hands for carrying and tool
use may be the spark that led to evolutionary pressure
favoring larger brains that made better and better use of
those newly available hands.
Hmmm, could be. It's always been a mystery to me why we are
(apparently) the only species on earth that has the ability to be
self-reflective, to worry about the future, to dwell on the past, to
create art...By all rights we should still be wandering in the forests
picking fruit off the trees.
There is a sub-species of homo sapiens that still does this. They're
called homo fundus bornagainius. They can be found grazing in the Ozark
mountains, brewing white lightnin'. Their mating season has recently
been replaced with a curious desire to migrate from state to state,
stuffing republican voting booths on election day.
Would this species be an evolutionary offshoot of the type species,
Fundamentalus ignoramus?
The problem is the recent development of the sixth toe, which has been a
stumbling block.
Ben
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| User: "ThePhisherKIng Locker@BusStation" |
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| Title: Re: Another dumb evolution question |
03 Apr 2007 09:32:43 PM |
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Speed <nope@nope.com> wrote in news:vr06139nb03tj8mpckbje76mo7qqq2uu77@
4ax.com:
On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 21:15:14 -0300, John Popelish <jpopelish@rica.net>
wrote:
Speed wrote:
The fact that humans share an extremely close DNA match with the apes
is undeniable. That we had some common ancestor is obvious. But how
did homo sapiens somehow shoot off into its own orbit, building
cities
and rockets, creating music and art and pondering the meaning of
life,
while all of our ape cousins still live just as they did millions of
years ago? What was the spark that turbo-charged our development?
I've always loved the opening sequence in 2001: A Space Odyssey; it
would explain a lot. *Something* seems to have given us clever apes a
big push forward.
The hypothesis I heard, years ago was that a mutation
started us on the path to large brain size, and everything
else followed. But I think evidence is accumulating that
shows that upright posture came first (before larger
brains), and the availability of hands for carrying and tool
use may be the spark that led to evolutionary pressure
favoring larger brains that made better and better use of
those newly available hands.
Hmmm, could be. It's always been a mystery to me why we are
(apparently) the only species on earth that has the ability to be
self-reflective, to worry about the future, to dwell on the past, to
create art...By all rights we should still be wandering in the forests
picking fruit off the trees.
We aren't the only species to be reflective and have emotions. They are
finding more and more mammals who are capable of such things but in their
own way that we don't fully understand yet.
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