| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Fred Stone" |
| Date: |
13 Apr 2005 09:19:48 AM |
| Object: |
Another Gay-Bashing Politician |
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/299104p-255983c.html
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
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| User: "Divin Marquis" |
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| Title: Re: Another Gay-Bashing Politician |
15 Apr 2005 10:58:55 AM |
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Le Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:30:19 +0000, Fred Stone a écrit :
The problem is that the "correlation" isn't just with Diebold, it's almost
across the board.
All the executives, and specifically all the CEOs of all 4 major US
electronic voting machine manufacturers (Diebold, Sequoia, and others the
name escapes me) are registered republicans and major donors to the party.
The sort of conspiracy it would take is even more
pervasive than the NASA moon hoax would have been.
Considering all those men have so much in common, it looks like it
indeed fits the legal requirement for "conspiracy."
The obvious hypothesis
is that the raw exit poll data was skewed, either by some bad "demographic
weighting" or by deliberate partisan fiddling. And yes, the fact that the
polling company won't release the raw data is consistent with that
hypothesis.
Yeah, you'd think that, so why didn't the two republican statisticians
referred to earlier came up with such a stupid hypothesis as "republican
shyness"?
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Another Gay-Bashing Politician |
15 Apr 2005 01:17:37 PM |
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Divin Marquis <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote in
news:pan.2005.04.15.15.58.54.346396@127.0.0.1:
Le Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:30:19 +0000, Fred Stone a écrit :
The problem is that the "correlation" isn't just with Diebold, it's
almost across the board.
All the executives, and specifically all the CEOs of all 4 major US
electronic voting machine manufacturers (Diebold, Sequoia, and others
the name escapes me) are registered republicans and major donors to
the party.
Which proves nothing. Where is the evidence that any of these men
actually participated in a conspiracy to commit fraud?
The sort of conspiracy it would take is even more
pervasive than the NASA moon hoax would have been.
Considering all those men have so much in common, it looks like it
indeed fits the legal requirement for "conspiracy."
Uhh, except for the legal requirement to show that a crime has indeed
been committed.
The obvious hypothesis
is that the raw exit poll data was skewed, either by some bad
"demographic weighting" or by deliberate partisan fiddling. And yes,
the fact that the polling company won't release the raw data is
consistent with that hypothesis.
Yeah, you'd think that, so why didn't the two republican statisticians
referred to earlier came up with such a stupid hypothesis as
"republican shyness"?
I haven't the foggiest. Where do you get that Edison and Mitofsky were
Republicans?
I looked through the source document cited in the report you cited and
they don't use the term "shyness" at all.
http://exit-poll.net/election-night/EvaluationJan192005.pdf
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
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| User: "Divin Marquis" |
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| Title: Re: Another Gay-Bashing Politician |
15 Apr 2005 07:18:02 PM |
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Le Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:17:37 +0000, Fred Stone a écrit :
Which proves nothing. Where is the evidence that any of these men actually
participated in a conspiracy to commit fraud?
Yeah, it proves nothing. Just like being found on a murder scene with a
gun in hand and blood all over your face doesn't prove you're guilty.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Another Gay-Bashing Politician |
15 Apr 2005 08:09:23 PM |
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Divin Marquis <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote in
news:pan.2005.04.16.00.18.01.231105@127.0.0.1:
Le Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:17:37 +0000, Fred Stone a écrit :
Which proves nothing. Where is the evidence that any of these men
actually participated in a conspiracy to commit fraud?
Yeah, it proves nothing. Just like being found on a murder scene with
a gun in hand and blood all over your face doesn't prove you're
guilty.
All you've got is one line from a speech at a voter-registration drive
taken blatantly out of context (as if any conspirator is going to announce
his plans so openly) and a bunch of articles written by "experts" who don't
know the platforms or the procedures.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
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| User: "Divin Marquis" |
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| Title: Re: Another Gay-Bashing Politician |
16 Apr 2005 03:01:59 PM |
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Le Sat, 16 Apr 2005 01:09:23 +0000, Fred Stone a écrit :
All you've got is one line from a speech at a voter-registration drive
taken blatantly out of context (as if any conspirator is going to announce
his plans so openly)
Pardon my Godwin, but when you think of the mother of all right wing
conspirators, you have to immediately think of that one who just happen to
have spelled out quite clearly what he was going to do in a book called
"Mein Kampf."
Neo-Conspirators have their PNAC. They also did the same crap about WMDs
in the '70s when they opposed Nixon, Kissinger and the détente.
and a bunch of articles written by "experts" who
don't know the platforms or the procedures.
You've got to be kidding. That's revoltingly retarded. Those guys I'm
quoting are well respected academics, who specialise in the very field
this is relevant. They're also from reputed institutions.
You're really one big hell of a crackpot.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Another Gay-Bashing Politician |
16 Apr 2005 03:38:25 PM |
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Divin Marquis <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote in
news:pan.2005.04.16.20.01.59.345150@127.0.0.1:
Le Sat, 16 Apr 2005 01:09:23 +0000, Fred Stone a écrit :
All you've got is one line from a speech at a voter-registration
drive taken blatantly out of context (as if any conspirator is going
to announce his plans so openly)
Pardon my Godwin, but when you think of the mother of all right wing
conspirators, you have to immediately think of that one who just
happen to have spelled out quite clearly what he was going to do in a
book called "Mein Kampf."
Neo-Conspirators have their PNAC. They also did the same crap about
WMDs in the '70s when they opposed Nixon, Kissinger and the détente.
Now I understand. You've got Chomskyism. And you call *me* a crackpot!
and a bunch of articles written by "experts" who
don't know the platforms or the procedures.
You've got to be kidding. That's revoltingly retarded. Those guys I'm
quoting are well respected academics, who specialise in the very field
this is relevant. They're also from reputed institutions.
I'm *soooo* impressed. The fact that they're "respected academics" probably
means that they're biased as all hell against conservatives in general and
Repulicans in particular. Regardless, they still are writing in a vacuum.
You're really one big hell of a crackpot.
I'm not the guy who is giving Chomsky's conspiracy theories the time of
day.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
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| User: "Divin Marquis" |
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| Title: Re: Another Gay-Bashing Politician |
16 Apr 2005 03:05:45 PM |
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Le Sat, 16 Apr 2005 01:09:23 +0000, Fred Stone a écrit :
a bunch of articles written by "experts" who
don't know the platforms or the procedures.
You're really losing this argument when all you've got left is attacking
the credentials of established researchers and dismissing them without any
argument.
I gave you their credentials. They are professors at John Hopkins Univ.,
Univ. of Iowa, Rice, etc. They teach and do research at the highest
academic level in fucking COMPUTER fucking SECURITY for *****'s sake.
And you just dismiss them as plumbers ... I can't even laugh at you, I'm
so exasperated by your hypocrisy, or is it your self-delusion?
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Another Gay-Bashing Politician |
16 Apr 2005 03:45:34 PM |
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Divin Marquis <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote in
news:pan.2005.04.16.20.05.45.387782@127.0.0.1:
Le Sat, 16 Apr 2005 01:09:23 +0000, Fred Stone a écrit :
a bunch of articles written by "experts" who
don't know the platforms or the procedures.
You're really losing this argument when all you've got left is
attacking the credentials of established researchers and dismissing
them without any argument.
You're making the Argument from Authority, not me.
I gave you their credentials. They are professors at John Hopkins
Univ., Univ. of Iowa, Rice, etc. They teach and do research at the
highest academic level in fucking COMPUTER fucking SECURITY for *****'s
sake.
That's nice. Some ivory tower types pontificate about hypothetical risks
without actually knowing the systems they're talking about.
I used to *work* in computer security, on IBM mainframes. I know all
about RACF. That doesn't qualify me to comment on Diebold's machines
BECAUSE THEY ARE DIFFERENT MACHINES.
And you just dismiss them as plumbers ... I can't even laugh at you,
I'm so exasperated by your hypocrisy, or is it your self-delusion?
I have only one question: did these plumbers do their analysis based on
actual e-voting machines AND their system code and the procedures put in
place by the election commissions that use them? (I already know the
answer to that.)
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
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| User: "Kate " |
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| Title: Re: Another Gay-Bashing Politician |
16 Apr 2005 06:12:03 PM |
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On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:45:34 GMT, Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com>
wrote:
Divin Marquis <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote in
news:pan.2005.04.16.20.05.45.387782@127.0.0.1:
Le Sat, 16 Apr 2005 01:09:23 +0000, Fred Stone a écrit :
a bunch of articles written by "experts" who
don't know the platforms or the procedures.
You're really losing this argument when all you've got left is
attacking the credentials of established researchers and dismissing
them without any argument.
You're making the Argument from Authority, not me.
I gave you their credentials. They are professors at John Hopkins
Univ., Univ. of Iowa, Rice, etc. They teach and do research at the
highest academic level in fucking COMPUTER fucking SECURITY for *****'s
sake.
That's nice. Some ivory tower types pontificate about hypothetical risks
without actually knowing the systems they're talking about.
I used to *work* in computer security, on IBM mainframes. I know all
about RACF. That doesn't qualify me to comment on Diebold's machines
BECAUSE THEY ARE DIFFERENT MACHINES.
LOL - systems are systems. It's the system that Diebold put in
that's flawed - as in - it didn't have a paper trail.
Apparently you know nothing about systems. Another glorified operator
who thinks he knows something.
And you just dismiss them as plumbers ... I can't even laugh at you,
I'm so exasperated by your hypocrisy, or is it your self-delusion?
I have only one question: did these plumbers do their analysis based on
actual e-voting machines AND their system code and the procedures put in
place by the election commissions that use them? (I already know the
answer to that.)
Don't have to. If you knew the least bit about computer systems, you
would know that.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Another Gay-Bashing Politician |
16 Apr 2005 06:42:19 PM |
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(Kate ) wrote in
news:42689b27.64269718@news-west.newscene.com:
On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:45:34 GMT, Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com>
wrote:
Divin Marquis <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote in
news:pan.2005.04.16.20.05.45.387782@127.0.0.1:
Le Sat, 16 Apr 2005 01:09:23 +0000, Fred Stone a écrit :
a bunch of articles written by "experts" who
don't know the platforms or the procedures.
You're really losing this argument when all you've got left is
attacking the credentials of established researchers and dismissing
them without any argument.
You're making the Argument from Authority, not me.
I gave you their credentials. They are professors at John Hopkins
Univ., Univ. of Iowa, Rice, etc. They teach and do research at the
highest academic level in fucking COMPUTER fucking SECURITY for
*****'s sake.
That's nice. Some ivory tower types pontificate about hypothetical
risks without actually knowing the systems they're talking about.
I used to *work* in computer security, on IBM mainframes. I know all
about RACF. That doesn't qualify me to comment on Diebold's machines
BECAUSE THEY ARE DIFFERENT MACHINES.
LOL - systems are systems.
Yeah, right, and dogs are dogs. A Great Dane can live in the same
doghouse as a Chihuahua.
It's the system that Diebold put in
that's flawed - as in - it didn't have a paper trail.
It had an audit trail on CD-ROM. But don't let all that newfangled
technology get in the way of your moonbat conspiracy theories.
Apparently you know nothing about systems. Another glorified operator
who thinks he knows something.
Systems programmer, darlin. The operators came to me when they had
problems. So did the applications programmers. And the corporate data
security folks.
And you just dismiss them as plumbers ... I can't even laugh at you,
I'm so exasperated by your hypocrisy, or is it your self-delusion?
I have only one question: did these plumbers do their analysis based
on actual e-voting machines AND their system code and the procedures
put in place by the election commissions that use them? (I already
know the answer to that.)
Don't have to. If you knew the least bit about computer systems, you
would know that.
I know more than enough to know that you're blowing smoke, darlin.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
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| User: "Enkidu the Atheist" |
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| Title: Re: Another Gay-Bashing Politician |
16 Apr 2005 06:14:28 PM |
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(Kate ) wrote in news:42689b27.64269718@news-
west.newscene.com:
LOL - systems are systems. It's the system that Diebold put in
that's flawed - as in - it didn't have a paper trail.
Based on Windows as well. Not the most secure system, historically.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplin and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
"Time goes, you say? Ah, no!
Alas, Time stays, we go."
* Austin Dobson
(01/18/1840 - 09/02/1921)
English writer
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Another Gay-Bashing Politician |
16 Apr 2005 06:43:53 PM |
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Enkidu the Atheist <Enkidu.the.Atheist@gmail.com> wrote in
news:Xns963AA546938F3255229@130.133.1.4:
cobalt@newscene.com (Kate ) wrote in news:42689b27.64269718@news-
west.newscene.com:
LOL - systems are systems. It's the system that Diebold put in
that's flawed - as in - it didn't have a paper trail.
Based on Windows as well. Not the most secure system, historically.
You still need an external connection to hack in. Or access to the system
console, which would be under the eyes of an election commissioner. Come
on, we've been over this and over it and over it some more.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
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| User: "Divin Marquis" |
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| Title: Re: Another Gay-Bashing Politician |
16 Apr 2005 08:48:57 PM |
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Le Sat, 16 Apr 2005 23:43:53 +0000, Fred Stone a écrit :
You still need an external connection to hack in. Or access to the system
console, which would be under the eyes of an election commissioner. Come
on, we've been over this and over it and over it some more.
Or access to their FTP site that was once found wide open by someone
without any computer expertise (www.blackboxvoting.org)
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Another Gay-Bashing Politician |
16 Apr 2005 08:48:58 PM |
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Divin Marquis <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote in
news:pan.2005.04.17.01.48.56.894579@127.0.0.1:
Le Sat, 16 Apr 2005 23:43:53 +0000, Fred Stone a écrit :
You still need an external connection to hack in. Or access to the
system console, which would be under the eyes of an election
commissioner. Come on, we've been over this and over it and over it
some more.
Or access to their FTP site that was once found wide open by someone
without any computer expertise (www.blackboxvoting.org)
That doesn't get you to any live vote-tallying computers.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
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| User: "Divin Marquis" |
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| Title: Re: Another Gay-Bashing Politician |
16 Apr 2005 10:17:19 PM |
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Le Sun, 17 Apr 2005 01:48:58 +0000, Fred Stone a écrit :
That doesn't get you to any live vote-tallying computers.
Gives you access to the distribution point for the code. Upload your
patched-up rogue version; and it gets installed on many voting booths.
Oh, yeah, there's procedures that should prevent this from happening; such
as, no patch is supposed to be installed after a thorough investigation;
but the BBvoting folks have found evidence that Diebold employees infriged
on those policies and uploaded versions shortly before elections, that
hadn't be reviewed by the appropriate committees.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Another Gay-Bashing Politician |
17 Apr 2005 07:01:07 AM |
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Divin Marquis <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote in
news:pan.2005.04.17.03.17.18.869945@127.0.0.1:
Le Sun, 17 Apr 2005 01:48:58 +0000, Fred Stone a écrit :
That doesn't get you to any live vote-tallying computers.
Gives you access to the distribution point for the code. Upload your
patched-up rogue version; and it gets installed on many voting booths.
Yeah, right. Except that that was *not* the distribution point for any
live code. Oh well, blows that theory.
Oh, yeah, there's procedures that should prevent this from happening;
such as, no patch is supposed to be installed after a thorough
investigation; but the BBvoting folks have found evidence that Diebold
employees infriged on those policies and uploaded versions shortly
before elections, that hadn't be reviewed by the appropriate
committees.
I understand from the reporting that that was a single incident in
California, during early implementation of a system that was getting
frequent patches. It is also clear that this was *not* Diebold policy,
then or now.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
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| User: "Divin Marquis" |
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| Title: Re: Another Gay-Bashing Politician |
17 Apr 2005 02:17:54 PM |
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Le Sun, 17 Apr 2005 12:01:07 +0000, Fred Stone a écrit :
I understand from the reporting that that was a single incident in
California, during early implementation of a system that was getting
frequent patches. It is also clear that this was *not* Diebold policy,
then or now.
Single incident ... that was exposed! But we should trust them, that
they've never done it anywhere else!
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Another Gay-Bashing Politician |
17 Apr 2005 02:34:35 PM |
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Divin Marquis <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote in
news:pan.2005.04.17.19.17.54.536244@127.0.0.1:
Le Sun, 17 Apr 2005 12:01:07 +0000, Fred Stone a écrit :
I understand from the reporting that that was a single incident in
California, during early implementation of a system that was getting
frequent patches. It is also clear that this was *not* Diebold
policy, then or now.
Single incident ... that was exposed!
Yes, indeed it was. And the election commission fixed their controls on
their side.
But we should trust them, that they've never done it anywhere else!
Ah, of course, and the evidence is that there is no evidence.
It's a cover-up!
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
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| User: "Divin Marquis" |
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| Title: Re: Another Gay-Bashing Politician |
17 Apr 2005 03:31:39 PM |
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Le Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:34:35 +0000, Fred Stone a écrit :
Ah, of course, and the evidence is that there is no evidence. It's a
cover-up!
There IS evidence. Strong evidence. But just one occurence.
Would you lend money to someone who has been convicted only once of fraud?
I know I would'nt!
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Another Gay-Bashing Politician |
17 Apr 2005 06:00:55 PM |
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Divin Marquis <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote in
news:pan.2005.04.17.20.31.39.825808@127.0.0.1:
Le Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:34:35 +0000, Fred Stone a écrit :
Ah, of course, and the evidence is that there is no evidence. It's a
cover-up!
There IS evidence. Strong evidence. But just one occurence.
Would you lend money to someone who has been convicted only once of
fraud? I know I would'nt!
It wasn't fraud, it was an honest fix for a problem under the pressure to
meet a deadline. No fraud was found.
I've been a programmer, I know just how much pressure there is to skip the
red tape for a last minute patch.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
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| User: "Divin Marquis" |
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| Title: Re: Another Gay-Bashing Politician |
18 Apr 2005 06:06:25 AM |
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Le Sun, 17 Apr 2005 23:00:55 +0000, Fred Stone a écrit :
It wasn't fraud, it was an honest fix for a problem under the pressure to
meet a deadline. No fraud was found.
It was a breach of election law.
I've been a programmer, I know just how much pressure there is to skip the
red tape for a last minute patch.
Ah, ok, ...
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Another Gay-Bashing Politician |
18 Apr 2005 07:50:48 AM |
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Divin Marquis <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote in
news:pan.2005.04.18.11.06.24.814837@127.0.0.1:
Le Sun, 17 Apr 2005 23:00:55 +0000, Fred Stone a écrit :
It wasn't fraud, it was an honest fix for a problem under the
pressure to meet a deadline. No fraud was found.
It was a breach of election law.
But it wasn't election fraud.
I've been a programmer, I know just how much pressure there is to
skip the red tape for a last minute patch.
Ah, ok, ...
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
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| User: "Divin Marquis" |
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| Title: Re: Another Gay-Bashing Politician |
18 Apr 2005 09:24:06 AM |
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Le Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:50:48 +0000, Fred Stone a écrit :
It was a breach of election law.
But it wasn't election fraud.
Just one small step short.
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| User: "Kate " |
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| Title: Re: Another Gay-Bashing Politician |
18 Apr 2005 08:33:03 PM |
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On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 16:24:06 +0200, Divin Marquis
<postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote:
Le Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:50:48 +0000, Fred Stone a écrit :
It was a breach of election law.
But it wasn't election fraud.
You have no way of knowing that.
Just one small step short.
And apparently Fred thinks that the possibility is not important
unless my side gets caught and prosecuted and convicted by my own side
or your side threatens my side's wins.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Another Gay-Bashing Politician |
18 Apr 2005 09:03:52 PM |
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(Kate ) wrote in news:42915ed1.245432109@news-
west.newscene.com:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 16:24:06 +0200, Divin Marquis
<postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote:
Le Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:50:48 +0000, Fred Stone a écrit :
It was a breach of election law.
But it wasn't election fraud.
You have no way of knowing that.
I know that nobody was charged with election fraud.
Just one small step short.
And apparently Fred thinks that the possibility is not important
unless my side gets caught and prosecuted and convicted by my own side
or your side threatens my side's wins.
There is a possibility of cheating with any balloting system. That's why
they have election commissions and poll watchers.
And yes, the only ones who have been convicted of voter fraud in the
2004 election have been Democrats.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Another Gay-Bashing Politician |
19 Apr 2005 12:39:47 PM |
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On 18 Apr 2005 20:33:03 -0500, (Kate ) wrote:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 16:24:06 +0200, Divin Marquis
<postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote:
Le Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:50:48 +0000, Fred Stone a écrit :
It was a breach of election law.
But it wasn't election fraud.
You have no way of knowing that.
Just one small step short.
And apparently Fred thinks that the possibility is not important
unless my side gets caught and prosecuted and convicted by my own side
or your side threatens my side's wins.
Fred *thinks?* Objective supporting evidence?
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
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| User: "Kate " |
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| Title: Re: Another Gay-Bashing Politician |
18 Apr 2005 09:38:02 AM |
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On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 22:31:39 +0200, Divin Marquis
<postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote:
Le Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:34:35 +0000, Fred Stone a écrit :
Ah, of course, and the evidence is that there is no evidence. It's a
cover-up!
There IS evidence. Strong evidence. But just one occurence.
Would you lend money to someone who has been convicted only once of fraud?
I know I would'nt!
I thought it was a great deal more than one occurance that *****
the Secretary of State - it happened over and over again and Diebold
was warned repeatedly.
Here's an article from the Oakland Tribune (the major paper in
Oakland) about the issue
EMAIL ARTICLE LINK TO ARTICLE PRINT ARTICLE
Article Last Updated: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 2:24:28 PM PST
Diebold knew of legal risks
Attorneys warned firm that use of uncertified vote-counting software
violated state law
By Ian Hoffman, STAFF WRITER
Attorneys for Diebold Election Systems Inc. warned in late November
that its use of uncertified vote-counting software in Alameda County
violated California election law and broke its $12.7 million contract
with Alameda County.
Soon after, a review of internal legal memos obtained by the Oakland
Tribune shows Diebold's attorneys at the Los Angeles office of Jones
Day realized the McKinney, Texas-based firm also faced a threat of
criminal charges and exile from California elections.
Yet despite warnings from the state's chief elections officer, Diebold
continued fielding poorly tested, faulty software and hardware in at
least two of California's largest urban counties during the Super
Tuesday primary, when e-voting temporarily broke down and voters were
turned away at the polls.
Other documentation obtained by the Tribune shows that the latest
approved versions of Diebold's vote-counting software in this state
cast doubt on the firm's claims elsewhere that it has fixed multiple
security vulnerabilities unearthed in the last year.
"In California those issues can be addressed," said Diebold spokesman
David Bear. "They were addressed in Maryland, and they could be
changed in California."
California elections officials said they are perplexed that Diebold
apparently hasn't changed practices since a December audit revealed
uncertified software running in every county that it serves.
"Diebold may suffer from gross incompetence, gross negligence. I don't
know whether there's any malevolence involved," said a senior
California elections official who spoke on condition of anonymity. "I
don't know why they've acted the way they've acted and the way they're
continuing to act. Notwithstanding their rhetoric, they have not
learned any lessons in terms of dealing with this secretary (of
state)."
The memos show that for months, Diebold attorneys at Jones Day have
been exploring ways to keep the nation's second-largest electronic
voting provider from losing an eighth of the national market.
Jones Day partner Daniel D. McMillan declined to comment on the
content of the documents except to confirm they were internal papers
from his office. He warned against drawing conclusions from the firm's
memos.
Diebold's legal team appears to have been exploring whether California
Secretary of State Kevin Shelley has the power to investigate the
company's practices. The memos reflect an argument that the
regulations by which California approves voting equipment for
elections may never have been properly codified and are unenforceable.
Diebold's Bear said his company is cooperating with Shelley's office.
"I've been working with the SOS and we're hopeful we can move forward
and the advantages of electronic voting can be continued to be offered
to the citizens of California," he said. "We will continue to work
with state and local elections officials to address any and all
elections issues."
The law firm's memos reflect a corporate defense firm on a
$500,000-a-month campaign to protect Diebold.
It is a critical moment for Diebold, for electronic voting in
California and for at least some of the 19 counties statewide that
purchased Diebold voting systems for more than $50 million.
On Wednesday, state elections officials begin debating their advice to
Shelley on whether to disallow some or all Diebold voting systems, or
all touchscreen voting machines, from the November elections.
What Shelley decides will be a test of state authority over makers of
the computers that will determine the electoral votes in California
and other states. His decision also could send some of California's
largest counties -- Alameda and San Diego -- scrambling for other ways
to count votes six months from now.
Voting experts say the industry's factories and printing plants
probably can handle the extra demand for replacement voting machines
and paper ballots, given at least three months' notice. But Shelley's
decision also could unleash a barrage of lawsuits that could mire
orders of equipment and ballots in legal wrangling over who will pay
for them.
At the center of those battles will be Jones Day. The firm's internal
memoranda show its attorneys considered the idea of calling a new bit
of uncertified voting software "experimental." State rules say local
governments can use entire, experimental voting systems without state
approval.
The lawyers also presented California officials who were seeking
documents from Diebold with sweeping confidentiality agree-ments
designed to hide flaws in Diebold software as much as its intellectual
property.
In drafts of a Feb. 13 letter to state regulators, Diebold's attorneys
declared that Diebold makes no changes to electronic devices that the
company and its predecessor have been programming for at least five
years.
The drafts show they staked out a firm position that a critical piece
of Diebold's voting system -- its voter-card encoders -- didn't need
national or state approval because they were commercial-off-the-shelf
products, never modified by Diebold.
But on the same day the letter was received, Diebold-hired techs were
loading non-commercial Diebold software into voter-card encoders in a
West Sacramento warehouse for shipment to Alameda and San Diego
counties.
"They were still crunching and working on that software in the middle
of February," said James Dunn, who worked as an assembly technician in
Diebold's Sacramento warehouse.
More than 600 of the devices froze or displayed unfamiliar screens and
error messages on the morning of Super Tuesday, for failure rates of
24 percent in Alameda County and about 40 percent in San Diego County.
Diebold Elections executives were told in October by state officials
to ensure every piece of its voting systems was fully tested and
approved by national and state authorities.
But Diebold resisted, arguing that the encoders didn't need testing
and approval because they were a "peripheral" device on its voting
systems and that the devices were common, commercial products.
That was true for the hardware. But not the software.
In fact, Diebold engineers were writing and rewriting the software at
DESI headquarters in Texas and in Sacramento, supplying the latest
versions two weeks before the encoders failed at high rates in the
Super Tuesday presidential primary.
Diebold eventually sent a sample of the encoders to an outside lab,
but it didn't have time for more than cursory testing.
The encoders were the only way that pollworkers were trained to create
cards that let voters call up digital ballots on Diebold's touchscreen
machines at more than 2,000 polling places in Alameda and San Diego
counties.
Dunn says he's not surprised.
As he and other techs raced to assemble the encoders out of tablet-PC
screens, batteries and card-writing bases shipped to Sacramento from
factories in Asia, Diebold officials kept supplying new versions of
the software.
In addition, the hardware components often failed to mate well,
resulting in frozen screens. And when the batteries lost power, the
devices lost their internal clock and operating settings, often
Diebold's software as well.
Dunn blames Diebold's rush to get the devices into the March 2
elections and the lack of standard quality controls in assembling and
configuring them. No instructions, no checklists, no tracking system.
An outspoken tech complained about the poor quality controls and the
failure of the devices when sapped of power.
"He was gone. They fired him," Dunn said. "The attitude among the
others there was, 'I don't care how screwed up these things are, I'm
going to keep quiet. I'm not going to get fired.'"
A Diebold software engineer pressed her superiors to allow testing of
all the devices before they were shipped to Oakland, San Diego and
elsewhere, but the tests -- successful creation of voter cards -- were
performed only on the last 10-15 percent of the devices, Dunn said.
"I got the feeling that the whole thing was rushed, that the products
were brought to market too fast, and they did it because they had to
get products to these counties before the election and they weren't
ready," he said. "It wasn't fully developed. It was still prototyped,
and they were out of time."
Alameda County had paper provisional ballots on hand at polling places
for use in lieu of the disabled touchscreens. At least 14 polling
places ran out and turned away voters. San Diego County relied on one
of Diebold's latest features, electronic provisional ballots, so
larger numbers of voters were turned away at the polls.
Diebold's claims to California elections officials, through its
attorneys, that it doesn't modify the encoder software is blatantly
untrue, according to Dunn and electronic-voting opponent Jim March.
"That's a lie," March said.
Last year, Seattle-based journalist Bev Harris found nine versions of
Diebold encoder software on an unsecure Internet site. Software
engineers such as March have been marveling at their multitude ever
since.
"When you vote, you are inserting a memory card containing up to 128k
of God-only-knows-what. With no oversight, the 'smart cards' could
contain some very stupid stuff indeed, or even deliberate subversion,"
he said.
Contact Ian Hoffman at .
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| User: "Kate " |
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| Title: Re: Another Gay-Bashing Politician |
18 Apr 2005 08:54:01 AM |
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On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 22:31:39 +0200, Divin Marquis
<postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote:
Le Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:34:35 +0000, Fred Stone a écrit :
Ah, of course, and the evidence is that there is no evidence. It's a
cover-up!
There IS evidence. Strong evidence. But just one occurence.
No, there was other evidence. Apparently in Florida a technician
messed with a computer after the voting and before a recount. This
was not reacted to by the Florida 'election commision'.
Would you lend money to someone who has been convicted only once of fraud?
I know I would'nt!
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| User: "Divin Marquis" |
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| Title: Re: Another Gay-Bashing Politician |
17 Apr 2005 02:17:22 PM |
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Le Sun, 17 Apr 2005 12:01:07 +0000, Fred Stone a écrit :
Yeah, right. Except that that was *not* the distribution point for any
live code. Oh well, blows that theory.
Except that it was.
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| User: "Kate " |
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| Title: Re: Another Gay-Bashing Politician |
16 Apr 2005 10:54:07 PM |
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On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 05:17:19 +0200, Divin Marquis
<postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote:
Le Sun, 17 Apr 2005 01:48:58 +0000, Fred Stone a écrit :
That doesn't get you to any live vote-tallying computers.
Gives you access to the distribution point for the code. Upload your
patched-up rogue version; and it gets installed on many voting booths.
Oh, yeah, there's procedures that should prevent this from happening; such
as, no patch is supposed to be installed after a thorough investigation;
but the BBvoting folks have found evidence that Diebold employees infriged
on those policies and uploaded versions shortly before elections, that
hadn't be reviewed by the appropriate committees.
This is what they tried to do in California. They got hauled up and
charged in court for it. Our secretary of state isn't republican
enough to look the other way.
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