| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Uncle Buck" |
| Date: |
28 Feb 2006 06:41:22 PM |
| Object: |
Another "outer limits" hypothetical |
Hypothetical
Suppose that, much like Rachael in "Blade Runner", you found out quite by
accident that your whole life has been a lie of implanted memories and forged
props, and that you had really just been created about a week ago. All of the
family and the friends that you remembered, they are lies and never really
existed.
1. How would you feel about this scenario?
Suppose that if you were to ask, those family and friends you "remember", but
who never existed, could be created so that you wouldn't have to be the only one
of your kind in the world. They would be constructed with all the memories and
personality traits you would expect them to have.
2. Would you think it okay for you to go ahead and choose to bring others like
yourself into the world even though their entire lives would have to be
fabricated?
3. Who among those you know would you choose to bring into existence with you?
Why?
4. Who would you deliberately and/or unquestionably choose to leave obliviated?
Why?
Suppose that all these people already existed in the world - everyone you love
and hate, etc... etc... etc.... Those who told you that you are synthetic, and
demonstrated it to you beyond all doubt, offer to do the same with everybody
else, but they want to know how you're taking it before they do. They wouldn't
have told you, but like I said, you found out by accident. So since you have
found out, they figure that maybe the others should learn the truth, too. But
they're concerned about it being too disturbing for them, and will accept your
opinion as to whether or not all your family and friends should be told that
their entire lives were fabricated. If you choose that the others should not be
told, they will be left to live among society as if they had always been there
and will never learn of their true origins. Histories and geneologies will be
synthesized so that, on paper at least, they will appear to be just like anyone
else. The only thing is that if you tell one, you're going to have to tell them
all.
5. Would you choose to tell them that they're pre-fabricated humans?
That's it, I look forward to reading your replies. :-) The questions again,
all together for easier answering:
1. How would you feel about this scenario?
2. Would you think it okay for you to go ahead and choose to bring others like
yourself into the world even though their entire lives would have to be
fabricated?
3. Who among those you know would you choose to bring into existence with you?
Why?
4. Who would you deliberately and/or unquestionably choose to leave obliviated?
Why?
5. Would you choose to tell them that they're pre-fabricated humans?
********************************
My own answers
1. How would you feel about this scenario?
In some ways, I would be profoundly disappointed, and in others, profoundly
relived. And probably the whole range of emotions in between, depending on
which facet of the issue I were thinking about. For one thing, all the bad
things I remember happening would effectively disappear, all the mistakes I
made would be nothing more than an illusion of my maker's imagination. But
beyond that, I'm not real sure how I would react. I guess that I'd have to
be there to know for sure.
2. Would you think it okay for you to go ahead and choose to bring others
like yourself into the world even though their entire lives would have to be
fabricated?
Yes, but only if they could be made in such a way as not to be so "shocked"
or upset when they find out where they really come from.
3a. Who among those you know would you choose to bring into existence with
you? Why?
3b. Who would you deliberately and/or unquestionably choose to leave
obliviated? Why?
This one's a really tough one to answer. There would be no crime in leaving
_everybody_ non-existent, and yet it's so hard to imagine my life going on
without some of those people. For one thing, even if I brought someone back,
whatbout them and the ones _they_ remember loving and couldn't live without?
Would our creators just keep on creating everybody from me on out with full
memories of everything? Or perhaps would they be able to whittle down on the
memories until finally they can create a batch of people who only have memories
of people who already exist? That might not be so bad.
To really do this well, I would have to see if they could build a non-conscious
simulation of the personalities that I'd be considering having created, so that
I could query them and see what their views are on whether or not they would
like to exist, as well as what possible changes from my remembered version of
them and their lives they might want implemented into their real-world selves.
If I couldn't do that, then the choice becomes much more difficult. Basically,
I would have to examine my memories of everyone I ever thought I knew, and see
what changes (if any) would be needed to their design to make their existence in
the real world something they might actually want. For those who would have to
be altered too drastically to still be the person I remember, there really
wouldn't be any point - might just as well press the "random persona" generator
until you come up with a stable one and churn out its incarnation instead. My
dad is one such person. I don't honestly think he could handle the knowledge of
his own life having been a lie, particularly the parts about the church. It
would kill me to leave him remain obliviated, but I'd have to. There's no
alteration I can imagine that would keep him the same person I remember him to
be. For those who wouldn't have be altered too drastically to acclimate
favorably to the real world, I think I'd want to create everyone I possibly
could. Existence is just too interesting to keep all to one's self. ;-)
That might create another problem, because each of them would be created with
their _own_ memories of people, and if the creators made them the same offer,
soon you'd have a planet overrun with synthetic, week-old people who two weeks
ago didn't even exist. Perhaps they could 'taper off' the memories of the newer
batches of people, until eventually the people they created had only memories of
people that already exist.
5. Would you choose to tell them that they're pre-fabricated humans?
Having to tell them all-or-nothing makes it a bit more difficult, but not much.
I think I would have to tell them. After all, I wouldn't even create someone
whom I didn't believe could actually handle the news.
That's it, l8r! :-)
--
L8r,
Uncle Buck
************************************************
The true mark of a civilized society is when its
citizens know how to hate each other peacefully.
************************************************
Put another way, a society can't claim the right
to label itself "civilized" until and unless its
citizens master "The Art of Peaceful Conflict".
************************************************
.
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
|
| Title: Re: Another "outer limits" hypothetical |
28 Feb 2006 11:19:16 PM |
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"Uncle Buck" <UncleBuck@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message
news:0ap902da2k4m1v6f1j95it942g27scuumm@4ax.com...
Hypothetical
Suppose that, much like Rachael in "Blade Runner", you found out quite by
accident that your whole life has been a lie of implanted memories and
forged
props, and that you had really just been created about a week ago. All of
the
family and the friends that you remembered, they are lies and never really
existed.
1. How would you feel about this scenario?
Big problem: Once the cat is out of the bag, that being the fact that you
can be completely fooled by a fabricated reality, you can then trust
nothing. This new knowledge you have of the new real world could also be a
fabrication. And on and on.
Basically, you have to arrive at the conclusion that your happiness depends
on you treating what you perceive as reality, as reality, whether it is or
not. The alternative being to waste your time seeking a truth that you know
you can never trust.
Ugh!
That said, it depends on the nature of the new real world as to whether I'd
invite anyone else in or not. If it's horrible, then why subject anyone else
to it, and if it's a paradise, there's no reason not to invite everyone.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
http://www.ashenempires.com
.
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| User: "Witziges Rätsel" |
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| Title: Re: Another "outer limits" hypothetical |
01 Mar 2006 06:18:31 AM |
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Hypothetical
[snip]
That's it, I look forward to reading your replies. :-) The questions
again,
all together for easier answering:
1. How would you feel about this scenario?
Released.
2. Would you think it okay for you to go ahead and choose to bring others
like yourself into the world even though their entire lives would have to
be fabricated?
Yes.
3. Who among those you know would you choose to bring into existence
with you? Why?
My friends. They're precious.
4. Who would you deliberately and/or unquestionably choose to leave
obliviated? Why?
Nobody. Truth should be known.
5. Would you choose to tell them that they're pre-fabricated humans?
Yes, if the topic came up, but I wouldn't make it my mission
in life.
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Another "outer limits" hypothetical |
28 Feb 2006 10:16:43 PM |
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In <0ap902da2k4m1v6f1j95it942g27scuumm@4ax.com>, Uncle Buck
<UncleBuck@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
Hypothetical
Suppose that, much like Rachael in "Blade Runner", you found out quite by
accident that your whole life has been a lie of implanted memories and
forged props, and that you had really just been created about a week ago.
All of the family and the friends that you remembered, they are lies and
never really existed.
1. How would you feel about this scenario?
I'd sue.
(Some parts of my life, oh, high school for instance, were just demented)
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
Churches are closing...
http://makeashorterlink.com/?M611110AC
Mardi Gras is rolling...
http://www.nola.com/mardigras/
Now, what was this about god's judgement?
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
.
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| User: "Enkidu" |
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| Title: Re: Another "outer limits" hypothetical |
28 Feb 2006 09:17:34 PM |
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Uncle Buck <UncleBuck@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in
news:0ap902da2k4m1v6f1j95it942g27scuumm@4ax.com:
Hypothetical
Suppose that, much like Rachael in "Blade Runner", you found out quite
by accident that your whole life has been a lie of implanted memories
and forged props, and that you had really just been created about a
week ago. All of the family and the friends that you remembered, they
are lies and never really existed.
<trivia>
The movie was based on a story by Philip K. ***** called "Do Androids
Dream of Electric Sheep?" It's a great read, better than the movie.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_K._Dick
"Blade Runner" was originally the title of a different scifi work by a
different author, Alan E. Nourse, with a completely different premise.
The title actually fits this work!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_E._Nourse
</trivia>
--
Enkidu AA#2165
http://www.thoughts.leaddogs.org/
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
PGP ID: 0xC4CE8CF0
Men think epilepsy divine, merely because they do not understand it. But
if they called everything divine which they do not understand, why, there
would be no end of divine things.
-- Hippocrates
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