| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Fredric L. Rice" |
| Date: |
16 Oct 2005 11:36:52 PM |
| Object: |
Anti gambling Christian conservatives |
This is lengthy and I suspect that most atheists have already read
something about the subject. Still what's remarkable is how the
"Family Values" anti gambleing Republican Party is a scam. When it
comes to money, "Family Values" is irrelevent -- but it doesn't
stop Christians from voting for the crooks anyway.
-=-
How a Lobbyist Stacked the Deck
By Susan Schmidt and James V. Grimaldi
The Washington Post
Sunday 16 October 2005
Abramoff used DeLay aide, attacks on allies to defeat anti-gambling
bill.
Lobbyist Jack Abramoff and his team were beginning to panic.
An anti-gambling bill had cleared the Senate and appeared on its
way to passage by an overwhelming margin in the House of
Representatives. If that happened, Abramoff's client, a company that
wanted to sell state lottery tickets online, would be out of business.
But on July 17, 2000, the Internet Gambling Prohibition Act went
down to defeat, to the astonishment of supporters who included many
anti-gambling groups and Christian conservatives.
A senior aide to then-Majority Whip Tom DeLay (R-Tex.) helped
scuttle the bill in the House. The aide, Tony C. Rudy, 39, e-mailed
Abramoff internal congressional communications and advice, according
to documents and the lobbyist's former associates.
Rudy received favors from Abramoff. He went on two luxury trips
with the lobbyist that summer, including one partly paid for by
Abramoff's client, eLottery Inc. Abramoff also arranged for eLottery
to pay $25,000 to a Jewish foundation that hired Rudy's wife as a
consultant, according to documents and interviews. Months later, Rudy
himself was hired as a lobbyist by Abramoff.
The vote that day in July was just one part of an extraordinary
yearlong effort by Abramoff on behalf of eLottery, a small gambling
services company based in Connecticut. Details of that campaign,
reconstructed from dozens of interviews as well as from e-mails and
financial records obtained by The Washington Post, provide the most
complete account yet of how one of Washington's most powerful
lobbyists leveraged his client's money to influence Congress.
The work Abramoff did for eLottery is one focus of a wide-ranging
federal corruption investigation into his dealings with members of
Congress and government agencies. Abramoff is under indictment in
another case in connection with an allegedly fraudulent Florida
business deal.
Abramoff had deep roots in the conservative movement and rose to
prominence by helping Republicans tap traditionally Democratic K
Street lobbyists for campaign dollars. But in the eLottery fight, he
employed a win-at-any-cost strategy that went so far as to launch
direct-mail attacks on vulnerable House conservatives.
Abramoff quietly arranged for eLottery to pay conservative,
anti-gambling activists to help in the firm's $2 million pro-gambling
campaign, including Ralph Reed, former head of the Christian
Coalition, and the Rev. Louis P. Sheldon of the Traditional Values
Coalition. Both kept in close contact with Abramoff about the
arrangement, e-mails show. Abramoff also turned to prominent anti-tax
conservative Grover Norquist, arranging to route some of eLottery's
money for Reed through Norquist's group, Americans for Tax Reform.
At one point, eLottery's backers even circulated a forged letter
of support from Florida Gov. Jeb Bush (R).
Rudy declined to comment for this report. A spokesman for Reed -
now a candidate for lieutenant governor of Georgia - said that he and
his associates are unaware that any money they received came from
gambling activities. Sheldon said that he could not remember receiving
eLottery money and that he was unaware that Abramoff was involved in
the campaign to defeat the bill. Norquist's group would say only that
it had opposed the gambling ban on libertarian grounds.
Abramoff's lawyer declined requests for a comment.
DeLay, an outspoken opponent of gambling, was an instrument,
witting or unwitting, in eLottery's campaign, documents and interviews
show. Along with Rudy, he was a guest on a golfing trip to Scotland.
As majority whip, he cast a rare vote against his party on the
Internet gambling bill and for the rest of the year helped keep the
measure off the floor. He told leadership colleagues that another vote
could cost Republican seats in the hard-fought 2000 elections.
A statement from DeLay's lawyer said his votes "are based on sound
public policy and principle."
The Scotland trip is one aspect of the gambling matter being
investigated by the corruption task force. The trip took place more
than five years ago, which ordinarily would be beyond the five-year
statute of limitations on certain possible corruption charges. But
legal sources say prosecutors have obtained a waiver of the time limit
because of the need to gather information abroad.
Desperate Company
Like many Internet companies emerging from the overheated 1990s,
eLottery's money was drying up in the spring of 2000.
The company was founded in 1993 on the gamble that even a small
fraction of the market for helping states and others put lotteries
online could be worth a billion dollars a year. But the company faced
many obstacles.
In 1998, the Justice Department had used existing gambling laws to
force eLottery to shut down its first online lottery venture, with an
Idaho Indian tribe. ELottery had not earned a dime since.
The Senate had passed the Internet Gambling Prohibition Act in
late 1999, aiming to make it easier for authorities to stop online
gambling sites. With a companion bill by Rep. Robert W. Goodlatte
(R-Va.) advancing in the House in the spring of 2000, eLottery was
desperate to ramp up its Washington lobbying. It had to sell off
assets to stay afloat and raise cash.
In May, eLottery hired Abramoff's firm, Preston Gates & Ellis LLP,
for $100,000 a month, according to lobbying reports. In the following
months, Abramoff directed the company to pay hundreds of thousands of
dollars to various organizations, faxes, e-mails and court records
show. The groups included Norquist's Americans for Tax Reform;
Sheldon's Traditional Values Coalition; companies affiliated with
Reed; and a Seattle Orthodox Jewish foundation, Toward Tradition.
Robert Daum, a former eLottery official, said he could not recall
the names of the groups that received the payments but noted that all
the money spent by the company at Abramoff's direction was for the
purpose of defeating the Internet bill.
"We were willing to pursue all legitimate means to ensure that
outcome, as people do all the time in Washington," Daum said. "Nothing
more, nothing less."
Arrayed against eLottery were many leading groups on the religious
right who were pushing to ban Internet gambling, including the Moral
Majority and the Christian Coalition. James Dobson, influential leader
of Focus on the Family, praised the bill in an opinion piece for the
New York Times.
Still, according to his strategy e-mails, Abramoff thought he
could turn conservatives in the House against the bill. He seized on
some compromise language in the bill making exceptions for jai alai
and horse racing.
Abramoff's plan: argue that the legislation and its exemptions
actually expand legalized gambling.
Check in the Mail
To reach the House conservatives, Abramoff turned to Sheldon,
leader of the Orange County, Calif. - based Traditional Values
Coalition, a politically potent group that publicly opposed gambling
and said it represented 43,000 churches. Abramoff had teamed up with
Sheldon before on issues affecting his clients. Because of their
previous success, Abramoff called Sheldon "Lucky Louie," former
associates said.
Checks and e-mails obtained by The Post show that Abramoff
recruited Reed to join Sheldon in the effort to pressure members of
Congress. Reed had left the Christian Coalition in 1997 and started a
political consulting firm in Georgia.
Abramoff asked eLottery to write a check in June 2000 to Sheldon's
Traditional Values Coalition (TVC). He also routed eLottery money to a
Reed company, using two intermediaries, which had the effect of
obscuring the source.
The eLottery money went first to Norquist's foundation, Americans
for Tax Reform (ATR), and then through a second group in Virginia
Beach called the Faith and Family Alliance, before it reached Reed's
company, Century Strategies. Norquist's group retained a share of the
money as it passed through.
"I have 3 checks from elot: (1) 2 checks for $80K payable to ATR
and (2) 1 check to TVC for $25K," Abramoff's assistant Susan Ralston
e-mailed him on June 22, 2000. "Let me know exactly what to do next.
Send to Grover? Send to Rev. Lou?"
Minutes later Abramoff responded, saying that the check for
Sheldon's group should be sent directly to Sheldon, but that the
checks for Norquist required special instructions: "Call Grover, tell
him I am in Michigan and that I have two checks for him totaling 160
and need a check back for Faith and Family for $150K."
According to the e-mails, Reed provided the name and address where
Norquist was supposed to send the money: to Robin Vanderwall at a
location in Virginia Beach.
Vanderwall was director of the Faith and Family Alliance, a
political advocacy group that was founded by two of Reed's colleagues
and then turned over to Vanderwall, Vanderwall said and records show.
Vanderwall, a former Regent University Law School student and
Republican operative, was later convicted of soliciting sex with
minors via the Internet and is serving a seven-year term in Virginia
state prison.
In a telephone interview, Vanderwall said that in July 2000 he was
called by Reed's firm, Century Strategies, alerting him that he would
be receiving a package. When it came, it contained a check payable to
Vanderwall's group for $150,000 from Americans for Tax Reform, signed
by Norquist. Vanderwall said he followed the instructions from Reed's
firm - depositing the money and then writing a check to Reed's firm
for an identical amount.
"I was operating as a shell," Vanderwall said, adding that he was
never told how the money was spent. He said: "I regret having had
anything to do with it."
Abramoff had previously paid Reed's consulting firms to whip up
Christian opposition to Indian casinos and a proposed Alabama state
lottery that would compete with the gambling business of Abramoff's
tribal clients, sometimes using Norquist's foundation as a
pass-through, a Senate investigation has found.
A spokeswoman for Reed said Century Strategies had no business
relationship with eLottery. She said Reed did anti-gambling work for
Abramoff but was assured by Abramoff's firm "that our activities would
not be funded by revenues derived from gambling activities."
Norquist declined to be interviewed. His spokesman did not answer
questions about the movement of funds.
Another check issued in 2000 by eLottery at Abramoff's direction
wound up helping to fund the Scotland golfing trip attended by Rudy
and DeLay. On May 25, 2000, as the trip got underway, the company sent
$25,000 to the National Center for Public Policy Research, where
Abramoff was a board member at the time. Along with money from another
Abramoff client, that payment covered most of the Scotland travel
costs, according to records and interviews.
DeLay has said that he believed the National Center sponsored and
paid for the trip.
A few weeks after the golfing trip, Abramoff took Rudy to the U.S.
Open in Pebble Beach, Calif. They traveled aboard a corporate jet
belonging to SunCruz Casinos, a Florida cruise line Abramoff was
negotiating to buy, according to a participant who spoke on the
condition of anonymity because of the ongoing investigation. Rudy did
not report this trip in his House travel records.
Abramoff listed Rudy as a financial reference that summer in the
SunCruz purchase. That transaction ultimately led to the indictment
two months ago of Abramoff and a business partner on charges that they
had forged a $23 million wire transfer.
Working the Bill
In early June 2000, DeLay had not yet taken a position on the
Internet gambling ban. But his aide, Rudy, was already providing
advice to Abramoff about how to kill it.
Five days after Rudy and DeLay got back from the Scotland trip,
Rudy sent an emergency message to Abramoff from a wireless device.
"911 gaming," Rudy typed on June 8.
He followed up with a suggestion that Abramoff's team get a
conservative House caucus to seek a meeting with the chamber's top
leaders, Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) and Majority Leader
Richard K. Armey (R-Tex.) - a key supporter of the bill. Abramoff
forwarded the idea to his team members. "Message from Tony Rudy. Don't
share it please. However we should take his advice."
Sheldon was also hard at work, holding news conferences and
buttonholing House conservatives to argue against the bill. On July
10, he called Abramoff's group saying he had run into resistance from
the staff of an influential member who still favored the bill.
"Lou just called," team member Shawn Vasell told colleagues in an
e-mail. "We need to get together and draft a response for Lou." Kevin
Ring, Vasell's associate, responded: "This is a disaster."
Abramoff weighed in minutes later, saying he would get Reed to
ramp up efforts. "I just chatted with Ralph. We are going to have to
go on the air nationally on radio. We must get the conservatives back
on this or we are doomed," he told the team.
Abramoff got another strategy e-mail the next morning from Rudy.
Rudy was on DeLay's staff but wrote "we" as though he belonged to
Abramoff's team. "I think we should get weyrich to get like 10 groups
to sign a letter to denny and armey on gaming bill," Rudy wrote,
referring to Free Congress Foundation Chairman Paul M. Weyrich and the
House leaders.
Sheldon got a private meeting with DeLay on July 13. "I told him I
strongly opposed the bill," Sheldon told Congressional Quarterly at
the time.
A former DeLay staff member who spoke on the condition of
anonymity said, "Lou was a credible face" because Sheldon's religious
credentials carried some weight with conservative voters.
DeLay then told House Republican leaders that he was prepared to
go against the anti-gambling bill.
The Bush Forgery
Still, the Abramoff team was worried about the vote. So the
eLottery forces pressed the argument that the Internet bill was an
unfair infringement of the right of individual states to sell lottery
tickets online. Amid the frenzied lobbying, a potentially influential
letter making that case began circulating on Capitol Hill. It was
purportedly signed by Jeb Bush.
"While I am no fan of gambling, I see this bill as a violation of
states' rights and I am looking to prevent this encroachment," the
letter said.
A surprised Hill staffer called the Florida governor's office, and
the letter was exposed as a forgery.
Months later, a little-noted investigation by Florida authorities
resulted in a confession from a Tampa man hired by a division of
Shandwick Worldwide, a public affairs company. Shandwick was working
on the eLottery account with Abramoff's team. The Florida man, Matthew
Blair, told authorities in a plea bargain agreement that he was hired
to get letters opposing the bill from the governor and others. He said
he created the forged letter on his own after he was unable to obtain
one from Bush's office.
Brian Berger, then a Shandwick official, said his firm had been
hired to produce the letters by Abramoff associate Michael Scanlon, a
former DeLay press aide. Berger said in a recent interview that
although he and Scanlon knew Blair, they did not sanction the forgery.
"Essentially, we had a bad operative," Berger said.
But the letter still had an impact. It fed the confusion about the
bill in the days before the floor vote. Goodlatte, the sponsor, had
more than enough votes for his carefully crafted compromise. Yet he
became worried that amendments might be introduced during the debate
that could kill the bill.
One way to avoid a floor fight is to place a bill on the
suspension calendar, which is supposed to be for non-controversial
legislation; it suspends the usual rules, banning amendments and
limiting debate. But doing so would require a two-thirds majority for
passage.
Goodlatte agreed to the suspension calendar approach because he
thought he could get the two-thirds. "We were told [by House leaders]
to bring it up on the suspension calendar so you won't have to deal
with all these amendments," said a member of Goodlatte's staff who
spoke on the condition of anonymity.
That opening was exploited by the Abramoff team with Rudy's help -
fewer votes would be needed to stop the bill.
On July 17, the House debated for about 40 minutes. Rumors
continued to fly about the Bush letter. Some members remained confused
about the bill's contents. About 30 did not vote. "There was a lot of
misinformation," said a congressional staff member who worked on the
bill.
Still, Goodlatte had reason to be optimistic because nine out of
10 bills on the suspension calendar pass.
But Abramoff's efforts had eroded just enough votes. The roll call
- 245 in favor, 159 against - left Goodlatte 25 members short. The
bill failed.
'All Systems Go'
The eLottery team was euphoric. Abramoff lobbyist Patrick
Pizzella, who was in the Capitol to watch the vote, wrote in an e-mail
to colleagues the next day that he saw Sheldon celebrating the
victory, too. "There was lucky Louie out front hi-fiving with some
lobbyists," said Pizzella, who the following year was named an
assistant secretary of labor. Others partied across from the Capitol
at the restaurant Tortilla Coast.
Supporters of the Internet gambling ban, though, were outraged.
They vowed to resurrect it, perhaps as part of an appropriations bill.
The Christian Coalition issued an "action alert." Dobson took to
the airwaves, saying, "I'm just sick about what the Republican
leadership is doing with regard to gambling." He urged listeners to
contact DeLay and other House leaders to revive the measure.
Abramoff's team realized there was no way to win enough support
for a simple majority because they were down more than two dozen
votes. Instead, they had to persuade the leadership to keep the bill
off the House floor, despite intense pressure from Goodlatte and
another backer, Rep. W.J. "Billy" Tauzin (R-La.) .
On July 21, DeLay's legislative director, Kathryn Lehman, e-mailed
Rudy. "Goodlatte and Tauzin asked Tom [DeLay] what they needed to do
to get his vote, and Tom said to talk to you!"
Rudy immediately forwarded the e-mail to Abramoff asking for help.
Documents show that Abramoff's strategy was to dispatch Sheldon to
pressure about 10 social conservatives in their home districts,
accusing them of being soft on gambling for supporting Goodlatte's
bill. Abramoff's group hoped those members would stir fears among
House leaders that another vote on the gambling bill could threaten
those members and thus the GOP's thin 13-seat majority.
On Aug. 18, Abramoff faxed a message to eLottery's Daum ordering
more money for Reed's activities. "I have chatted with Ralph and we
need to get the funding moving on the effort in the 10 congressional
districts," Abramoff wrote. "Please get me a check as soon as possible
for $150,000 made payable to American Marketing Inc. This is the
company Ralph is using."
ELottery issued the requested check to American Marketing on Aug.
24 and delivered it to Abramoff at Preston Gates. Five days later,
Abramoff e-mailed Reed. The subject, "Internet Gambling: And so it
continues." The message asked, "Where are we? You got the check, no?
Are things moving?"
Reed answered the next day. "1. Yes, they got it. 2. Yes, all
systems go."
Targeting 'Our Guys'
Weeks later, a political mailer from Sheldon's group landed like a
small bomb in the North Alabama district of Rep. Robert Aderholt.
The Republican was a member of the religious right's Values Action
Team in Congress, a champion of public displays of the Ten
Commandments and a vigorous gambling opponent. But now, in the midst
of a tough reelection race, Aderholt was accused of being soft on
gambling.
"Congressman Robert Aderholt voted with them in support of HR
#3125 with the law the gamblers want on horse and dog racing," said
Sheldon's mailer. Sheldon urged voters to call Aderholt's Washington
office "and ask him to vote NO this time." Aderholt's opponent quickly
incorporated Sheldon's attack in an ad of his own.
The bulk rate stamp on the mailing said it was paid for by
American Marketing. Records show that the company is run by Robert
Randolph, the president of Reed's direct marketing subsidiary. A
spokeswoman for Reed said that American Marketing is "a different
company" and that she could not respond to questions about it.
Sheldon's fliers also targeted Rep. J.C. Watts of Oklahoma, then
the House GOP deputy whip, and vulnerable incumbents such as Aderholt,
including Rep. James E. Rogan of California, one of the managers of
the impeachment of President Bill Clinton, and Rep. Robin Hayes of
North Carolina.
Angry House members targeted by Sheldon complained to the
leadership. "Certainly our displeasure was relayed on up the chain, so
to speak," said Andrew Duke, the chief of staff for Hayes.
Abramoff's willingness to jeopardize Republican House seats
startled his lobbying team, some of whom had come from DeLay's office.
"Once we started talking about taking out our guys, I got worried,"
said a former associate of Abramoff's who spoke on the condition of
anonymity.
The same former Preston Gates lobbyist said Rudy played a key role
in getting House leaders to pay attention to the plight of members
under attack.
"Tony would say to members, 'Oh, you're getting phone calls on
this? I better go tell the whip.' Lou Sheldon sending a letter is not
going to do anything unless you have somebody on the inside. Tony
exaggerated to leadership how backing the bill could hurt those
members," the former Abramoff associate said.
The outrage prompted Sheldon to back off in some of the races. In
Aderholt's district, he issued a letter praising the congressman and
claiming that his previous mailer had been mistakenly distributed. In
Rogan's district, he stopped pressuring the incumbent and attacked his
challenger as "a champion of the homosexual agenda."
Sheldon said in an interview this week that he recalled little
about his efforts against the bill in 2000. He said he did not
remember receiving a $25,000 check from eLottery, but added that it is
possible that his organization did receive it. He said he remembered
some money coming in to pay for fliers he had printed and mailed to
congressional districts to persuade members to oppose the bill.
"I wasn't aware the money was coming from them [eLottery],"
Sheldon said. "I don't think I ever saw the check. It came in, and we
paid the bill for some of the printing."
Sheldon also said he had no idea that Abramoff was lobbying
against the bill or that he was working for eLottery.
"This is all tied to Jack?" Sheldon said. "I'm shocked out of my
socks."
Chilling Effect
Rudy, who had known Abramoff for years, went to work for Abramoff
when the lobbyist switched law firms, to Greenberg Traurig LLP, in
January 2001.
Rudy's wife, Lisa, was also drawn into Abramoff's orbit. She was
paid fees by Toward Tradition, the Seattle-based Orthodox Jewish
foundation that often allies with the Christian right on social
issues. The foundation is headed by longtime Abramoff friend Rabbi
Daniel Lapin and the lobbyist served as chairman of the board.
Toward Tradition was issued a $25,000 check dated Aug. 24, 2000,
by eLottery. A copy of the check was obtained by The Post. Daum, the
former eLottery official, said he could not remember the check but
said all funds Abramoff directed him to spend were intended to defeat
the Internet gambling bill.
Lapin said in an interview that he could not remember a check from
eLottery but that the company could have made donations to his
foundation. He said that any such donation would have been separate
from his foundation's hiring of Liberty Consulting, a political firm
founded and operated by Lisa Rudy.
"Lisa Rudy worked for us for six months - six to nine months - to
organize groundwork for a conference," Lapin said. He said she was
paid more than $25,000 but was unsure exactly how and when Lisa Rudy
was hired. Lapin said her work could have been for an interfaith
conference held in Washington in mid-September 2000. That conference,
which opened a few weeks after the eLottery check was sent to Toward
Tradition, featured such speakers as DeLay, Sheldon and Norquist.
Rudy declined to comment on the Toward Tradition contract and said
that his wife was not available for a comment.
A month after the interfaith conference, the gambling bill's
sponsors agitated to get House leaders to let them attach the measure
to an end-of-the-year spending bill.
But Sheldon's campaign in conservative districts had the desired
chilling effect on GOP leaders. That became clear on Oct. 24, when
House Republicans met to discuss their year-end strategy.
What happened at the meeting was relayed to Abramoff by a former
associate, David H. Safavian, who was then a lobbyist for a coalition
of online gambling companies and who this month was indicted for
allegedly lying to federal investigators in the Abramoff probe.
DeLay, Safavian wrote in an e-mail, "spoke up and noted that the
bill could cost as many as four House seats. At that point, there was
silence. Not even Rep. ***** Armey (R-Texas) - our previous opponent -
said a word."
When Congress prepared to adjourn in 2000 without revisiting the
gambling bill, Safavian was ecstatic. He sent his clients an e-mail,
which was posted on the Web site of the Fantasy Sports Trade
Association.
"Relax a bit," Safavian wrote. "Policy beat politics once again.
(Maybe the American system isn't really that bad.) The good guys won."
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
http://www.rightard.org/ http://www.thedarkwind.org/
Bush is a Christian. Get over it!
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| User: "Desertphile" |
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| Title: Re: Anti gambling Christian conservatives |
18 Oct 2005 04:20:46 PM |
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Pretty bloody amazing, and it would be funny if not for the victims
being abused, defrauded, etc. The "Indian" casinos have some
Republicans taking feeds to lobby in favor of the casinos, while other
Republicans OR THE SAME ONES lobby for Fundamentalist churchs to OPPOSE
those cassios. What the hell, they're just injuns, right? Sheeeish. God
damn bastards ought to pushed up against the wall and Get What's
Comming To The.
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: Anti gambling Christian conservatives |
18 Oct 2005 09:12:44 PM |
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"Desertphile" <desertphile@hotmail.com> wrote:
Pretty bloody amazing, and it would be funny if not for the victims
being abused, defrauded, etc. The "Indian" casinos have some
Republicans taking feeds to lobby in favor of the casinos, while other
Republicans OR THE SAME ONES lobby for Fundamentalist churchs to OPPOSE
those cassios. What the hell, they're just injuns, right? Sheeeish. God
damn bastards ought to pushed up against the wall and Get What's
Comming To The.
What I find amusing about this is the murders that have taken place.
The hitman who was paid for one of them was paid with a check and
when the Special Prosecutor cataloged the evidence, the hitman's
lawyers demanded, "Does my client look stupid enough to accept payment
for murder with a personal check?" -- Paraphrased.
You look at photographs of the Gambino killer and the answer's "yes."
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
http://www.rightard.org/ http://www.thedarkwind.org/
Bush is a Christian. Get over it!
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| User: "Uncle Buck" |
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| Title: Re: Anti gambling Christian conservatives |
18 Oct 2005 10:27:35 PM |
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On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 02:12:44 GMT, (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
What I find amusing about this is the murders that have taken place.
Ah, yes, that good old "murder". Cracks _me_ up every time, I tell ya'... ;-)
--
L8r,
Uncle Buck
BAAWA
a.a. #88
UU Minister # "=" - "Grand Equivocator of the Balanced Equal Sign"
~=^*=^=~-=^=-~=^=*^=~=-^=-=~^=*=^~=-=^-=~=^*=^=~-=^=-~=^=*^=~=-^=-=~^=*=^~=
"Surrendering To The Fall" - A blog about - what else? - me:
http://surrenderingtothefall.blogspot.com
(perpetually under construction)
~=^*=^=~-=^=-~=^=*^=~=-^=-=~^=*=^~=-=^-=~=^*=^=~-=^=-~=^=*^=~=-^=-=~^=*=^~=
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: Anti gambling Christian conservatives |
19 Oct 2005 06:42:53 PM |
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Uncle Buck <UncleBuck@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 02:12:44 GMT, (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
What I find amusing about this is the murders that have taken place.
Ah, yes, that good old "murder". Cracks _me_ up every time, I tell ya'... ;-)
<rofl!> Well, okay. Maybe not the actual _murder_, but the
personal check that was used to pay for it. That's funny.
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
http://www.rightard.org/ http://www.thedarkwind.org/
Bush is a Christian. Get over it!
.
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| User: "Opie" |
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| Title: Re: Re: Anti gambling Christian conservatives |
18 Oct 2005 04:30:48 PM |
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On 18 Oct 2005 14:20:46 -0700, "Desertphile"
<desertphile@hotmail.com> wrote:
<> Pretty bloody amazing, and it would be funny if
not for the victims
<> being abused, defrauded, etc. The "Indian"
casinos have some
<> Republicans taking feeds to lobby in favor of
the casinos, while other
<> Republicans OR THE SAME ONES lobby for
Fundamentalist churchs to OPPOSE
<> those cassios. What the hell, they're just
injuns, right? Sheeeish. God
<> damn bastards ought to pushed up against the
wall and Get What's
<> Comming To The.
While all the democrats set around innocently with
their halos on full brightness.
.
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