| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Sphere" |
| Date: |
30 Dec 2006 10:59:50 PM |
| Object: |
Antitheism |
I don't think I invented the term but I have been
seeing it bantied about for awhile, and I think
the first use of it I've ever seen was someone
describing my position. I think I'll have a go at
defining the term.
Antitheist: n. Somone who believes God is
a bad idea.
Antitheists may also accept the label Atheist,
or might not. The primary distinction between
atheism and antitheism is that the atheist may
think the question of the existence or non-existence
of God worthy of consideration, while the antitheist
does not. The primary interest of the antitheist
with respect to God is to make the idea go away,
and it is even possible for an antitheist to believe
that God exists -- but is irrelevant.
Antitheists are generally not well received by
monotheists, and for good reason. The antitheist
probably finds the behavor of monotheists
particularly unpleasant in their pushing of the
God idea as some sort of absolute truth.
As an antitheist, my brief against monotheism
is this: The idea of One God is a schoolyard bully
who cannot play well with others. It is basic to
the idea of One God that all other notions of divinity
must be destroyed -- frequently by killing the people
who hold those other notions of divinity. People
infected with the One God idea have to be viewed with
suspicion, as in the past -- and even the present --
they have been known to engage in violence based
upon this evil idea, sometimes collectively.
---
No essence. No permanence. No perfection.
.
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| User: "Greywolf" |
|
| Title: Re: Antitheism |
31 Dec 2006 12:09:58 AM |
|
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"Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167541190.513790.96600@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
I don't think I invented the term but I have been
seeing it bantied about for awhile, and I think
the first use of it I've ever seen was someone
describing my position. I think I'll have a go at
defining the term.
Antitheist: n. Somone who believes God is
a bad idea.
Antitheists may also accept the label Atheist,
or might not. The primary distinction between
atheism and antitheism is that the atheist may
think the question of the existence or non-existence
of God worthy of consideration, while the antitheist
does not. The primary interest of the antitheist
with respect to God is to make the idea go away,
and it is even possible for an antitheist to believe
that God exists -- but is irrelevant.
Antitheists are generally not well received by
monotheists, and for good reason. The antitheist
probably finds the behavor of monotheists
particularly unpleasant in their pushing of the
God idea as some sort of absolute truth.
As an antitheist, my brief against monotheism
is this: The idea of One God is a schoolyard bully
who cannot play well with others. It is basic to
the idea of One God that all other notions of divinity
must be destroyed -- frequently by killing the people
who hold those other notions of divinity. People
infected with the One God idea have to be viewed with
suspicion, as in the past -- and even the present --
they have been known to engage in violence based
upon this evil idea, sometimes collectively.
---
No essence. No permanence. No perfection.
I, for one, have forgotten what 'good' belief in a clearly non-existent
'God' accomplishes -- other than instilling utter fear and terror in people
who might otherwise decide to do 'wrong'.
*That* notion, as is fairly obvious, is a failure. You are what you are. If
you decide to go rob a bank, or shoot an atheist in the ***** for being 'evil'
in a 'drive-by' shooting after attending church service with the wife and
kids, you'll do it -- damn the utter religious 'hypocrisy' involved!!
And, hey. If you relentlessly try to impose your religious views on others,
what's wrong with that?! It's being done to 'save' the 'souls' of the
'unsaved'. That's a pretty damn *noble* thing to do, isn't it? And let's not
forget that it's being done out of the 'love' for the creator of the
universe! How can there *possibly* anything wrong with that? What if there
really *is* a 'God', huh?? The atheists will be kissin' theist ***** and feet
after discovering *that*, then, won't they -- the ingrates?!!
Ohh ... where did my head go? Oh there it is. I've got it back on -- and
'straight', too. What in the hell did I type up there? Have I gone back to
the bottle and haven't realized it? NO! (Thank goodness!)
Belief in 'God' *is* a bad idea. We just don't 'need' him (aside from those
who just cannot live without the thought of 'it). And we certainly don't
need him or that imaginary 'contraption' that's supposed to be his 'Son' to
incite another 'war' in his/their 'name', either. We've had *enough* of that
already!
Belief in 'God' isn't going to end anytime soon. Disbelief in 'Zeus' didn't
occur overnight. But we can take a very important 'baby step' by reducing
the number of our youth who are being brainwashed into believing in the
ridiculous, preposterous, and the absurd at the hands of a self-serving
clergy. That's a start. Let a really bad 'idea' go and let's try to find a
way to instill nobility in men and women of good conscience without the need
to resorting to a wholly man-made, fabricated 'God'. The advantages in
believing in him are now *far* out-weighed by the 'bad' such faith produces.
'God' needs to go into permanent retirement. Let a future generation come to
accept noble ideals every bit as good as the ones the 'Church' has in mind,
but ideals that stem from something more real and 'concrete' than imaginary
deity or phony-baloney 'Holy' books.
Greywolf
.
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| User: "Rick Brandt" |
|
| Title: Re: Antitheism |
31 Dec 2006 08:20:13 AM |
|
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"Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167541190.513790.96600@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
I don't think I invented the term but I have been
seeing it bantied about for awhile, and I think
the first use of it I've ever seen was someone
describing my position. I think I'll have a go at
defining the term.
Antitheist: n. Somone who believes God is
a bad idea.
Antitheists may also accept the label Atheist,
or might not. The primary distinction between
atheism and antitheism is that the atheist may
think the question of the existence or non-existence
of God worthy of consideration, while the antitheist
does not. The primary interest of the antitheist
with respect to God is to make the idea go away,
and it is even possible for an antitheist to believe
that God exists -- but is irrelevant.
Antitheists are generally not well received by
monotheists, and for good reason. The antitheist
probably finds the behavor of monotheists
particularly unpleasant in their pushing of the
God idea as some sort of absolute truth.
As an antitheist, my brief against monotheism
is this: The idea of One God is a schoolyard bully
who cannot play well with others. It is basic to
the idea of One God that all other notions of divinity
must be destroyed -- frequently by killing the people
who hold those other notions of divinity. People
infected with the One God idea have to be viewed with
suspicion, as in the past -- and even the present --
they have been known to engage in violence based
upon this evil idea, sometimes collectively.
---
No essence. No permanence. No perfection.
A primary argument of the theist is "If there is no god, thus no afterlife, then
why behave morally?" Non-theists of every stripe see this as a flawed argument
because they see that one need not fear eternal retribution to lead a moral
life. However; I believe that evangelizing a non-theist position or arguing that
belief in god is a bad idea has dangers.
If there is a percentage of the world's population that are living (mostly)
morally only because they fear some form of godly punishment then relieving them
of their theism might in turn trigger a lot of evil-doing on their part. I mean
even if this applies to only 1% of theists that represents a lot of potential
evil-doing. This control of those who are less inclined to behave morally might
well be what got theism started in the first place (that and the desire to make
a buck).
Now, evil is most assuredly done "in god's name" and one might argue that the
evil spawned by wiping out theism would be less than the evil done in the name
of theism, but I suspect that in the case of most of the latter that theism is
just the excuse or rational. That those who do evil for theistic reasons would
likely still do evil either way. Theistic justification is just convenient for
them or (more likely) their particular flavor of theism is simply what brought
their group together.
On the flip side, there is likely a certain percentage (perhaps quite high) of
charitable works that are only carried out because those being charitable are
looking for an eternal reward. If those people were suddenly made to see the
non-theistic light they might not suddenly become doers of evil deeds, but they
might very well stop performing charitable works because they no longer see any
point in doing so.
So I believe what I believe and I do object when theism is inserted into places
it does not belong or is forced upon those who do not desire it, but I do not
try to talk people out of their theism as I do not know if the cure will be
worse than the disease. I certainly would be selective about who I might try to
convince and limit that to those who would likely not begin raping and pillaging
once freed from their theistic "leash".
.
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| User: "Sphere" |
|
| Title: Re: Antitheism |
31 Dec 2006 08:43:09 AM |
|
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Rick Brandt wrote:
"Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167541190.513790.96600@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
I don't think I invented the term but I have been
seeing it bantied about for awhile, and I think
the first use of it I've ever seen was someone
describing my position. I think I'll have a go at
defining the term.
Antitheist: n. Somone who believes God is
a bad idea.
Antitheists may also accept the label Atheist,
or might not. The primary distinction between
atheism and antitheism is that the atheist may
think the question of the existence or non-existence
of God worthy of consideration, while the antitheist
does not. The primary interest of the antitheist
with respect to God is to make the idea go away,
and it is even possible for an antitheist to believe
that God exists -- but is irrelevant.
Antitheists are generally not well received by
monotheists, and for good reason. The antitheist
probably finds the behavor of monotheists
particularly unpleasant in their pushing of the
God idea as some sort of absolute truth.
As an antitheist, my brief against monotheism
is this: The idea of One God is a schoolyard bully
who cannot play well with others. It is basic to
the idea of One God that all other notions of divinity
must be destroyed -- frequently by killing the people
who hold those other notions of divinity. People
infected with the One God idea have to be viewed with
suspicion, as in the past -- and even the present --
they have been known to engage in violence based
upon this evil idea, sometimes collectively.
---
No essence. No permanence. No perfection.
A primary argument of the theist is "If there is no god, thus no afterlife, then
why behave morally?" Non-theists of every stripe see this as a flawed argument
because they see that one need not fear eternal retribution to lead a moral
life. However; I believe that evangelizing a non-theist position or arguing that
belief in god is a bad idea has dangers.
If there is a percentage of the world's population that are living (mostly)
morally only because they fear some form of godly punishment then relieving them
of their theism might in turn trigger a lot of evil-doing on their part. I mean
even if this applies to only 1% of theists that represents a lot of potential
evil-doing. This control of those who are less inclined to behave morally might
well be what got theism started in the first place (that and the desire to make
a buck).
Now, evil is most assuredly done "in god's name" and one might argue that the
evil spawned by wiping out theism would be less than the evil done in the name
of theism, but I suspect that in the case of most of the latter that theism is
just the excuse or rational. That those who do evil for theistic reasons would
likely still do evil either way. Theistic justification is just convenient for
them or (more likely) their particular flavor of theism is simply what brought
their group together.
On the flip side, there is likely a certain percentage (perhaps quite high) of
charitable works that are only carried out because those being charitable are
looking for an eternal reward. If those people were suddenly made to see the
non-theistic light they might not suddenly become doers of evil deeds, but they
might very well stop performing charitable works because they no longer see any
point in doing so.
So I believe what I believe and I do object when theism is inserted into places
it does not belong or is forced upon those who do not desire it, but I do not
try to talk people out of their theism as I do not know if the cure will be
worse than the disease. I certainly would be selective about who I might try to
convince and limit that to those who would likely not begin raping and pillaging
once freed from their theistic "leash".
All good arguments, and I would not be antitheist if the
theists simply kept to themselves, but I do not think
it possible for the idea of One God to persist without
forcing itself upon others.
---
No essence. No permanence. No perfection.
.
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| User: "Rick Brandt" |
|
| Title: Re: Antitheism |
31 Dec 2006 08:56:20 AM |
|
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"Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167576189.724434.245840@k21g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
All good arguments, and I would not be antitheist if the
theists simply kept to themselves, but I do not think
it possible for the idea of One God to persist without
forcing itself upon others.
True. There are three types of theism in that regard. In order of least to
most problematic...
Theism that takes a "live and let live" attitude and which accepts that "there
are many paths to enlightenment, not just the one I have chosen".
Theism that looks upon those not of the fold as "lost" and which encourages (or
requires) that those in the fold try to "save" as many of the lost as possible
(for their own good).
Theism that takes the view that those "not of the body" are enemies to be
derided, defeated, or eradicated.
If only all theists fell into the first category we would have far fewer
problems. Those in the second category are mostly just annoying except when
they interject into the secular (political) arena. Most of our current woes are
caused by the third group which I agree we would all be better off without.
.
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| User: "Sphere" |
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| Title: Re: Antitheism |
31 Dec 2006 11:07:29 AM |
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Rick Brandt wrote:
"Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167576189.724434.245840@k21g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
All good arguments, and I would not be antitheist if the
theists simply kept to themselves, but I do not think
it possible for the idea of One God to persist without
forcing itself upon others.
True. There are three types of theism in that regard. In order of least to
most problematic...
Theism that takes a "live and let live" attitude and which accepts that "there
are many paths to enlightenment, not just the one I have chosen".
Theism that looks upon those not of the fold as "lost" and which encourages (or
requires) that those in the fold try to "save" as many of the lost as possible
(for their own good).
Theism that takes the view that those "not of the body" are enemies to be
derided, defeated, or eradicated.
If only all theists fell into the first category we would have far fewer
problems. Those in the second category are mostly just annoying except when
they interject into the secular (political) arena. Most of our current woes are
caused by the third group which I agree we would all be better off without.
It seems to me you are talking of people infected
by theism and how they behave, rather than the
Theos meme itself. The One God idea is strictly
in the third category, but people differ in how they
react to the infection. (You left out converted,
forcibly if necessary.)
---
No essence. No permanence. No perfection.
.
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| User: "Russ Rose" |
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| Title: Re: Antitheism |
31 Dec 2006 09:04:16 AM |
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"Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167541190.513790.96600@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
I don't think I invented the term but I have been
seeing it bantied about for awhile, and I think
the first use of it I've ever seen was someone
describing my position. I think I'll have a go at
defining the term.
Antitheist: n. Somone who believes God is
a bad idea.
Since god is knowledge, those who believe knowledge to be a "bad idea" are
just plain stupid.
....
Happy New Year!
.
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| User: "Milan" |
|
| Title: Re: Antitheism |
31 Dec 2006 10:44:31 AM |
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"Russ Rose" <russrose@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:FvSdnW5WQbfwTArYnZ2dnUVZ_veinZ2d@comcast.com...
"Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167541190.513790.96600@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
I don't think I invented the term but I have been
seeing it bantied about for awhile, and I think
the first use of it I've ever seen was someone
describing my position. I think I'll have a go at
defining the term.
Antitheist: n. Somone who believes God is
a bad idea.
Since god is knowledge, those who believe knowledge to be a "bad idea" are
just plain stupid.
...
God is love, god is knowledge, god is the ground of being; god is so many
things that it is difficult to keep track.
regards
Milan
.
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| User: "Russ Rose" |
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| Title: Re: Antitheism |
31 Dec 2006 02:44:45 PM |
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"Milan" <mtklima@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4vq7ujF1dd76sU1@mid.individual.net...
"Russ Rose" <russrose@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:FvSdnW5WQbfwTArYnZ2dnUVZ_veinZ2d@comcast.com...
"Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167541190.513790.96600@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
I don't think I invented the term but I have been
seeing it bantied about for awhile, and I think
the first use of it I've ever seen was someone
describing my position. I think I'll have a go at
defining the term.
Antitheist: n. Somone who believes God is
a bad idea.
Since god is knowledge, those who believe knowledge to be a "bad idea"
are just plain stupid.
...
God is love, god is knowledge, god is the ground of being; god is so many
things that it is difficult to keep track.
Love is the positive energy of life, commonly used in the pursuit of
knowledge.
regards
Milan
.
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| User: "Milan" |
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| Title: Re: Antitheism |
01 Jan 2007 12:03:19 PM |
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"Russ Rose" <russrose@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:p9OdnVfKEq_-CgXYnZ2dnUVZ_qninZ2d@comcast.com...
"Milan" <mtklima@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4vq7ujF1dd76sU1@mid.individual.net...
"Russ Rose" <russrose@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:FvSdnW5WQbfwTArYnZ2dnUVZ_veinZ2d@comcast.com...
"Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167541190.513790.96600@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
I don't think I invented the term but I have been
seeing it bantied about for awhile, and I think
the first use of it I've ever seen was someone
describing my position. I think I'll have a go at
defining the term.
Antitheist: n. Somone who believes God is
a bad idea.
Since god is knowledge, those who believe knowledge to be a "bad idea"
are just plain stupid.
...
God is love, god is knowledge, god is the ground of being; god is so many
things that it is difficult to keep track.
Love is the positive energy of life, commonly used in the pursuit of
knowledge.
Thanks. I'll add that one to the list.
regards
Milan
.
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| User: "chazwin" |
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| Title: Re: Antitheism |
01 Jan 2007 08:51:33 AM |
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Russ Rose wrote:
"Milan" <mtklima@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4vq7ujF1dd76sU1@mid.individual.net...
"Russ Rose" <russrose@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:FvSdnW5WQbfwTArYnZ2dnUVZ_veinZ2d@comcast.com...
"Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167541190.513790.96600@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
I don't think I invented the term but I have been
seeing it bantied about for awhile, and I think
the first use of it I've ever seen was someone
describing my position. I think I'll have a go at
defining the term.
Antitheist: n. Somone who believes God is
a bad idea.
Since god is knowledge, those who believe knowledge to be a "bad idea"
are just plain stupid.
...
God is love, god is knowledge, god is the ground of being; god is so many
things that it is difficult to keep track.
Love is the positive energy of life, commonly used in the pursuit of
knowledge.
Love is seeing someone miss the irony.
regards
Milan
.
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| User: "chazwin" |
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| Title: Re: Antitheism |
31 Dec 2006 12:56:50 PM |
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Milan wrote:
"Russ Rose" <russrose@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:FvSdnW5WQbfwTArYnZ2dnUVZ_veinZ2d@comcast.com...
"Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167541190.513790.96600@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
I don't think I invented the term but I have been
seeing it bantied about for awhile, and I think
the first use of it I've ever seen was someone
describing my position. I think I'll have a go at
defining the term.
Antitheist: n. Somone who believes God is
a bad idea.
Since god is knowledge, those who believe knowledge to be a "bad idea" are
just plain stupid.
...
God is love, god is knowledge, god is the ground of being; god is so many
things that it is difficult to keep track.
God is so much everything that he is nothing whatever at all.
God has so many definitions, so many denotation and conotations, he is
all things to all people, god is the universe; the multiverse; the *****
under my shoe and the snot in my nose: god is everything god in
nothing.
regards
Milan
.
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| User: "Sphere" |
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| Title: Re: Antitheism |
31 Dec 2006 06:23:38 PM |
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chazwin wrote:
Milan wrote:
"Russ Rose" <russrose@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:FvSdnW5WQbfwTArYnZ2dnUVZ_veinZ2d@comcast.com...
"Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167541190.513790.96600@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
I don't think I invented the term but I have been
seeing it bantied about for awhile, and I think
the first use of it I've ever seen was someone
describing my position. I think I'll have a go at
defining the term.
Antitheist: n. Somone who believes God is
a bad idea.
Since god is knowledge, those who believe knowledge to be a "bad idea" are
just plain stupid.
...
God is love, god is knowledge, god is the ground of being; god is so many
things that it is difficult to keep track.
God is so much everything that he is nothing whatever at all.
God has so many definitions, so many denotation and conotations, he is
all things to all people, god is the universe; the multiverse; the *****
under my shoe and the snot in my nose: god is everything god in
nothing.
I've been inclined to take what evidence I
find and consider that God rather than listen
to competing definitions. His adherents
collectively act so as to create a being, and
I consider that to be their God -- even though
this God is a liar which is none of omnipotent,
omniscient, nor omnibenevolent.
To do otherwise is to accept their worldview
as a valid partition. (To my mind, Atheism's
major fault.)
regards
Milan
---
No essence. No permanence. No perfection.
.
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| User: "Sphere" |
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| Title: Re: Antitheism |
31 Dec 2006 11:12:49 AM |
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Milan wrote:
"Russ Rose" <russrose@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:FvSdnW5WQbfwTArYnZ2dnUVZ_veinZ2d@comcast.com...
"Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167541190.513790.96600@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
I don't think I invented the term but I have been
seeing it bantied about for awhile, and I think
the first use of it I've ever seen was someone
describing my position. I think I'll have a go at
defining the term.
Antitheist: n. Somone who believes God is
a bad idea.
Since god is knowledge, those who believe knowledge to be a "bad idea" are
just plain stupid.
...
God is love, god is knowledge, god is the ground of being; god is so many
things that it is difficult to keep track.
Scorecards! Scorecards for sale!
Can't keep your fighting One Gods apart
without a Scorecard.
Scorecards for sale!
---
No essence. No permanence. No perfection.
regards
Milan
.
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| User: "Richo" |
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| Title: Re: Antitheism |
02 Jan 2007 05:31:10 PM |
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Russ Rose wrote:
"Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167541190.513790.96600@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
I don't think I invented the term but I have been
seeing it bantied about for awhile, and I think
the first use of it I've ever seen was someone
describing my position. I think I'll have a go at
defining the term.
Antitheist: n. Somone who believes God is
a bad idea.
Since god is knowledge
False premise - so anything that follows it is possibly true or false.
All cats are red therefore ...
(1) Trees are made of mashmallow.
(2) Water is wet.
(3) Chocolate is a popular food
etc.
Mark.
.
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| User: "Russ Rose" |
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| Title: Re: Antitheism |
03 Jan 2007 08:38:40 PM |
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"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1167780670.068511.128970@k21g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Russ Rose wrote:
"Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167541190.513790.96600@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
I don't think I invented the term but I have been
seeing it bantied about for awhile, and I think
the first use of it I've ever seen was someone
describing my position. I think I'll have a go at
defining the term.
Antitheist: n. Somone who believes God is
a bad idea.
Since god is knowledge
False premise
Can you prove it is false?
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Antitheism |
05 Jan 2007 04:27:08 PM |
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On Wed, 3 Jan 2007 20:38:40 -0600, "Russ Rose" <russrose@hotmail.com>
wrote:
"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1167780670.068511.128970@k21g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Russ Rose wrote:
"Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167541190.513790.96600@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
I don't think I invented the term but I have been
seeing it bantied about for awhile, and I think
the first use of it I've ever seen was someone
describing my position. I think I'll have a go at
defining the term.
Antitheist: n. Somone who believes God is
a bad idea.
Since god is knowledge
False premise
Can you prove it is false?
Sure - atheism isn't a belief, it's lack of a particular belief.
.
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| User: "Russ Rose" |
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| Title: Re: Antitheism |
05 Jan 2007 06:29:15 PM |
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"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:t4ktp2t0b2m94udg5l2s2e70mnq54vriqc@4ax.com...
On Wed, 3 Jan 2007 20:38:40 -0600, "Russ Rose" <russrose@hotmail.com>
wrote:
"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1167780670.068511.128970@k21g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Russ Rose wrote:
"Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167541190.513790.96600@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
I don't think I invented the term but I have been
seeing it bantied about for awhile, and I think
the first use of it I've ever seen was someone
describing my position. I think I'll have a go at
defining the term.
Antitheist: n. Somone who believes God is
a bad idea.
Since god is knowledge
False premise
Can you prove it is false?
Sure - atheism isn't a belief, it's lack of a particular belief.
This statement allows room for atheists to have beliefs. Was that your
intention?
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Antitheism |
05 Jan 2007 08:21:18 PM |
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On Fri, 5 Jan 2007 18:29:15 -0600, "Russ Rose" <russrose@hotmail.com>
wrote:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:t4ktp2t0b2m94udg5l2s2e70mnq54vriqc@4ax.com...
On Wed, 3 Jan 2007 20:38:40 -0600, "Russ Rose" <russrose@hotmail.com>
wrote:
"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1167780670.068511.128970@k21g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Russ Rose wrote:
"Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167541190.513790.96600@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
I don't think I invented the term but I have been
seeing it bantied about for awhile, and I think
the first use of it I've ever seen was someone
describing my position. I think I'll have a go at
defining the term.
Antitheist: n. Somone who believes God is
a bad idea.
Since god is knowledge
False premise
Can you prove it is false?
Sure - atheism isn't a belief, it's lack of a particular belief.
This statement allows room for atheists to have beliefs. Was that your
intention?
No, my intention was to show that your assertion that an atheist
(which is what most people mean when they say antitheist) is "Somone
[sic] who believes God is a bad idea" is nonsense. (As is the idea
that atheism is antitheism.)
.
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|
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| User: "Sphere" |
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| Title: Re: Antitheism |
05 Jan 2007 09:05:17 PM |
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Al Klein wrote:
On Fri, 5 Jan 2007 18:29:15 -0600, "Russ Rose" <russrose@hotmail.com>
wrote:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:t4ktp2t0b2m94udg5l2s2e70mnq54vriqc@4ax.com...
On Wed, 3 Jan 2007 20:38:40 -0600, "Russ Rose" <russrose@hotmail.com>
wrote:
"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1167780670.068511.128970@k21g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Russ Rose wrote:
"Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167541190.513790.96600@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
I don't think I invented the term but I have been
seeing it bantied about for awhile, and I think
the first use of it I've ever seen was someone
describing my position. I think I'll have a go at
defining the term.
Antitheist: n. Somone who believes God is
a bad idea.
Since god is knowledge
False premise
Can you prove it is false?
Sure - atheism isn't a belief, it's lack of a particular belief.
This statement allows room for atheists to have beliefs. Was that your
intention?
No, my intention was to show that your assertion that an atheist
(which is what most people mean when they say antitheist) is "Somone
[sic] who believes God is a bad idea" is nonsense. (As is the idea
that atheism is antitheism.)
Atheism and antitheism are notions with little
relationship to each other. I am theologically
non-theistic and socially antitheistic. I also
consider Atheism a system of belief.
In particular, Athieists believe the notion of
existence is well defined and has a truth
value. One of the most notable behavors
of Atheists is their assertion that it is valid
to partition humanity based upon some
particular narrow notion of divinity.
---
No essence. No permanence. No perfection.
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
|
| Title: Re: Antitheism |
05 Jan 2007 10:48:55 PM |
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On 5 Jan 2007 19:05:17 -0800, "Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote:
Al Klein wrote:
No, my intention was to show that your assertion that an atheist
(which is what most people mean when they say antitheist) is "Somone
[sic] who believes God is a bad idea" is nonsense. (As is the idea
that atheism is antitheism.)
Atheism and antitheism are notions with little
relationship to each other.
But when most people say "atheist" they mean "antitheist", one who
hates or dislikes some god, or has an active belief that there is no
god, which is not what an atheist is.
I am theologically
non-theistic and socially antitheistic. I also
consider Atheism a system of belief.
Many people are wrong about what atheism is, so don't feel bad. (The
mere fact that you capitalize the word shows that you know very little
about it.)
In particular, Athieists believe the notion of
existence is well defined and has a truth
value.
Try rewriting that in English.
One of the most notable behavors
of Atheists is their assertion that it is valid
to partition humanity based upon some
particular narrow notion of divinity.
It's "valid" to divide any set by any difference between members.
.
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| User: "Free Lunch" |
|
| Title: Re: Antitheism |
05 Jan 2007 09:09:55 PM |
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On 5 Jan 2007 19:05:17 -0800, in alt.atheism
"Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in
<1168052717.524552.200380@q40g2000cwq.googlegroups.com>:
Al Klein wrote:
On Fri, 5 Jan 2007 18:29:15 -0600, "Russ Rose" <russrose@hotmail.com>
wrote:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:t4ktp2t0b2m94udg5l2s2e70mnq54vriqc@4ax.com...
On Wed, 3 Jan 2007 20:38:40 -0600, "Russ Rose" <russrose@hotmail.com>
wrote:
"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1167780670.068511.128970@k21g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Russ Rose wrote:
"Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167541190.513790.96600@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
I don't think I invented the term but I have been
seeing it bantied about for awhile, and I think
the first use of it I've ever seen was someone
describing my position. I think I'll have a go at
defining the term.
Antitheist: n. Somone who believes God is
a bad idea.
Since god is knowledge
False premise
Can you prove it is false?
Sure - atheism isn't a belief, it's lack of a particular belief.
This statement allows room for atheists to have beliefs. Was that your
intention?
No, my intention was to show that your assertion that an atheist
(which is what most people mean when they say antitheist) is "Somone
[sic] who believes God is a bad idea" is nonsense. (As is the idea
that atheism is antitheism.)
Atheism and antitheism are notions with little
relationship to each other. I am theologically
non-theistic and socially antitheistic. I also
consider Atheism a system of belief.
What kind of a system of beliefs contains no beliefs?
In particular, Athieists believe the notion of
existence is well defined and has a truth
value. One of the most notable behavors
of Atheists is their assertion that it is valid
to partition humanity based upon some
particular narrow notion of divinity.
You make amazingly sweeping claims for atheists that I will cheerfully
disagree with. I would like you to particularly address the fact that
Buddhism has both theistic and atheistic traditions in it.
.
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| User: "Sphere" |
|
| Title: Re: Antitheism |
05 Jan 2007 09:33:14 PM |
|
|
Free Lunch wrote:
On 5 Jan 2007 19:05:17 -0800, in alt.atheism
"Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in
<1168052717.524552.200380@q40g2000cwq.googlegroups.com>:
Al Klein wrote:
On Fri, 5 Jan 2007 18:29:15 -0600, "Russ Rose" <russrose@hotmail.com>
wrote:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:t4ktp2t0b2m94udg5l2s2e70mnq54vriqc@4ax.com...
On Wed, 3 Jan 2007 20:38:40 -0600, "Russ Rose" <russrose@hotmail.com>
wrote:
"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1167780670.068511.128970@k21g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Russ Rose wrote:
"Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167541190.513790.96600@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
I don't think I invented the term but I have been
seeing it bantied about for awhile, and I think
the first use of it I've ever seen was someone
describing my position. I think I'll have a go at
defining the term.
Antitheist: n. Somone who believes God is
a bad idea.
Since god is knowledge
False premise
Can you prove it is false?
Sure - atheism isn't a belief, it's lack of a particular belief.
This statement allows room for atheists to have beliefs. Was that your
intention?
No, my intention was to show that your assertion that an atheist
(which is what most people mean when they say antitheist) is "Somone
[sic] who believes God is a bad idea" is nonsense. (As is the idea
that atheism is antitheism.)
Atheism and antitheism are notions with little
relationship to each other. I am theologically
non-theistic and socially antitheistic. I also
consider Atheism a system of belief.
What kind of a system of beliefs contains no beliefs?
I wouldn't know. Death perhaps.
In particular, Athieists believe the notion of
existence is well defined and has a truth
value. One of the most notable behavors
of Atheists is their assertion that it is valid
to partition humanity based upon some
particular narrow notion of divinity.
You make amazingly sweeping claims for atheists that I will cheerfully
disagree with. I would like you to particularly address the fact that
Buddhism has both theistic and atheistic traditions in it.
Buddhism has both polytheistic and
atheistic traditions. Theism, however,
is very diffiuclt to uphold within Buddhism --
though many try to do it anyway. Buddha
rejected all notions of Self, and told his
followers not to chase after "I was," or
"I will be." There is a decided dissonance
between Buddha's teachings and the notion
of a creator. Other than that, Buddhism
is basically disinterested in the question.
Only Theists and Atheists would bother
trying to classify Buddhism within this
stupid framework.
As for my claims about Atheists, I make
these claims only for people who define
themselves as Atheist. Other people who
these Atheists would call atheist are not
covered by my observations.
---
No essence. No permanence. No perfection.
.
|
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| User: "Al Klein" |
|
| Title: Re: Antitheism |
05 Jan 2007 10:53:38 PM |
|
|
On 5 Jan 2007 19:33:14 -0800, "Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote:
Free Lunch wrote:
What kind of a system of beliefs contains no beliefs?
I wouldn't know. Death perhaps.
Death is a belief system?
As for my claims about Atheists, I make
these claims only for people who define
themselves as Atheist. Other people who
these Atheists would call atheist are not
covered by my observations.
Anyone who has no belief in any god is an atheist. Anyone who holds
any belief in any god is a theist. It's not all that difficult to
understand if you're at least 10 years old mentally.
.
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| User: "buddhapest" |
|
| Title: Re: Antitheism retro splashy |
06 Jan 2007 12:50:17 AM |
|
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"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:pmaup21fjov3m9ri599d4re1se73j8p300@4ax.com...
On 5 Jan 2007 19:33:14 -0800, "Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote:
Free Lunch wrote:
What kind of a system of beliefs contains no beliefs?
I wouldn't know. Death perhaps.
Death is a belief system?
for the dead it is. when you're dead,
you'll believe it too.
Anyone who has no belief in any god is an atheist.
let me reword 'god' a little. i'm an
atheist since i might not believe in
those principles and forces that
operate the functions of the universe?
Anyone who holds
any belief in any god is a theist.
i'm a theist because i believe, from
appearances only of course, that the earth
orbits the sun?
It's not all that difficult to
understand if you're at least 10 years old mentally.
does that mean that although one's
body was aging one's mentality wasn't?
how might one cure their mentality?
would it follow the same subsequence
as aging flesh? might not be such a
bad thing really because then you could
still enjoy a young mind at an old age.
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
|
| Title: Re: Antitheism retro splashy |
06 Jan 2007 07:11:42 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 06:50:17 GMT, "buddhapest"
<pestaroonie@netzero.com> wrote:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:pmaup21fjov3m9ri599d4re1se73j8p300@4ax.com...
On 5 Jan 2007 19:33:14 -0800, "Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote:
Free Lunch wrote:
What kind of a system of beliefs contains no beliefs?
I wouldn't know. Death perhaps.
Death is a belief system?
for the dead it is. when you're dead,
you'll believe it too.
I've been dead, but I didn't think death was a belief system when I
was.
Anyone who has no belief in any god is an atheist.
let me reword 'god' a little. i'm an
atheist since i might not believe in
those principles and forces that
operate the functions of the universe?
If you give them personhood, yes.
Anyone who holds
any belief in any god is a theist.
i'm a theist because i believe, from
appearances only of course, that the earth
orbits the sun?
Only if you think that the earth or the sun is a god.
It's not all that difficult to
understand if you're at least 10 years old mentally.
does that mean that although one's
body was aging one's mentality wasn't?
No, it doesn't refer to the age of one's body at all.
how might one cure their mentality?
That would depend on the nature of the illness. If it was willful
stupidity, education would be the "cure". If it's inability to accept
reality there's no cure.
would it follow the same subsequence
as aging flesh? might not be such a
bad thing really because then you could
still enjoy a young mind at an old age.
Many people do - they remain mental children until they die of
chronological old age.
.
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| User: "?!" |
|
| Title: Re: Antitheism |
06 Jan 2007 07:06:36 AM |
|
|
Al Klein wrote:
On 5 Jan 2007 19:33:14 -0800, "Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote:
Free Lunch wrote:
What kind of a system of beliefs contains no beliefs?
I wouldn't know. Death perhaps.
Death is a belief system?
As a verb, until it becomes a noun.
As for my claims about Atheists, I make
these claims only for people who define
themselves as Atheist. Other people who
these Atheists would call atheist are not
covered by my observations.
Anyone who has no belief in any god is an atheist. Anyone who holds
any belief in any god is a theist. It's not all that difficult to
understand if you're at least 10 years old mentally.
The more you believe, the less certain you must be.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Free Lunch" |
|
| Title: Re: Antitheism |
06 Jan 2007 08:32:36 AM |
|
|
On 5 Jan 2007 19:33:14 -0800, in alt.atheism
"Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in
<1168054394.208858.121630@51g2000cwl.googlegroups.com>:
Free Lunch wrote:
On 5 Jan 2007 19:05:17 -0800, in alt.atheism
"Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in
<1168052717.524552.200380@q40g2000cwq.googlegroups.com>:
Al Klein wrote:
On Fri, 5 Jan 2007 18:29:15 -0600, "Russ Rose" <russrose@hotmail.com>
wrote:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:t4ktp2t0b2m94udg5l2s2e70mnq54vriqc@4ax.com...
On Wed, 3 Jan 2007 20:38:40 -0600, "Russ Rose" <russrose@hotmail.com>
wrote:
"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1167780670.068511.128970@k21g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Russ Rose wrote:
"Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167541190.513790.96600@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
I don't think I invented the term but I have been
seeing it bantied about for awhile, and I think
the first use of it I've ever seen was someone
describing my position. I think I'll have a go at
defining the term.
Antitheist: n. Somone who believes God is
a bad idea.
Since god is knowledge
False premise
Can you prove it is false?
Sure - atheism isn't a belief, it's lack of a particular belief.
This statement allows room for atheists to have beliefs. Was that your
intention?
No, my intention was to show that your assertion that an atheist
(which is what most people mean when they say antitheist) is "Somone
[sic] who believes God is a bad idea" is nonsense. (As is the idea
that atheism is antitheism.)
Atheism and antitheism are notions with little
relationship to each other. I am theologically
non-theistic and socially antitheistic. I also
consider Atheism a system of belief.
What kind of a system of beliefs contains no beliefs?
I wouldn't know. Death perhaps.
In particular, Athieists believe the notion of
existence is well defined and has a truth
value. One of the most notable behavors
of Atheists is their assertion that it is valid
to partition humanity based upon some
particular narrow notion of divinity.
You make amazingly sweeping claims for atheists that I will cheerfully
disagree with. I would like you to particularly address the fact that
Buddhism has both theistic and atheistic traditions in it.
Buddhism has both polytheistic and
atheistic traditions. Theism, however,
is very diffiuclt to uphold within Buddhism --
though many try to do it anyway. Buddha
rejected all notions of Self, and told his
followers not to chase after "I was," or
"I will be." There is a decided dissonance
between Buddha's teachings and the notion
of a creator. Other than that, Buddhism
is basically disinterested in the question.
Only Theists and Atheists would bother
trying to classify Buddhism within this
stupid framework.
As for my claims about Atheists, I make
these claims only for people who define
themselves as Atheist. Other people who
these Atheists would call atheist are not
covered by my observations.
That is just gibberish.
By the way, I am atheist, but I have no idea what an Atheist is.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dave K" |
|
| Title: Re: Antitheism |
06 Jan 2007 10:36:43 AM |
|
|
Free Lunch wrote:
On 5 Jan 2007 19:33:14 -0800, in alt.atheism
"Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in
<1168054394.208858.121630@51g2000cwl.googlegroups.com>:
Free Lunch wrote:
On 5 Jan 2007 19:05:17 -0800, in alt.atheism
"Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in
<1168052717.524552.200380@q40g2000cwq.googlegroups.com>:
Al Klein wrote:
On Fri, 5 Jan 2007 18:29:15 -0600, "Russ Rose" <russrose@hotmail.com>
wrote:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:t4ktp2t0b2m94udg5l2s2e70mnq54vriqc@4ax.com...
On Wed, 3 Jan 2007 20:38:40 -0600, "Russ Rose" <russrose@hotmail.com>
wrote:
"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1167780670.068511.128970@k21g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Russ Rose wrote:
"Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167541190.513790.96600@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
I don't think I invented the term but I have been
seeing it bantied about for awhile, and I think
the first use of it I've ever seen was someone
describing my position. I think I'll have a go at
defining the term.
Antitheist: n. Somone who believes God is
a bad idea.
Since god is knowledge
False premise
Can you prove it is false?
Sure - atheism isn't a belief, it's lack of a particular belief.
This statement allows room for atheists to have beliefs. Was that your
intention?
No, my intention was to show that your assertion that an atheist
(which is what most people mean when they say antitheist) is "Somone
[sic] who believes God is a bad idea" is nonsense. (As is the idea
that atheism is antitheism.)
Atheism and antitheism are notions with little
relationship to each other. I am theologically
non-theistic and socially antitheistic. I also
consider Atheism a system of belief.
What kind of a system of beliefs contains no beliefs?
I wouldn't know. Death perhaps.
In particular, Athieists believe the notion of
existence is well defined and has a truth
value. One of the most notable behavors
of Atheists is their assertion that it is valid
to partition humanity based upon some
particular narrow notion of divinity.
You make amazingly sweeping claims for atheists that I will cheerfully
disagree with. I would like you to particularly address the fact that
Buddhism has both theistic and atheistic traditions in it.
Buddhism has both polytheistic and
atheistic traditions. Theism, however,
is very diffiuclt to uphold within Buddhism --
though many try to do it anyway. Buddha
rejected all notions of Self, and told his
followers not to chase after "I was," or
"I will be." There is a decided dissonance
between Buddha's teachings and the notion
of a creator. Other than that, Buddhism
is basically disinterested in the question.
Only Theists and Atheists would bother
trying to classify Buddhism within this
stupid framework.
As for my claims about Atheists, I make
these claims only for people who define
themselves as Atheist. Other people who
these Atheists would call atheist are not
covered by my observations.
That is just gibberish.
I know a little bit more about where Sphere is coming from so I'll give
a shot at a translation.
People who "define themselves as athiest" hold the *view* "God does not
exist." Inherent in that view is that God is defined, and that
existence is defined. They define themselves, "I am an athiest" by
the idea of negation (non-existence.)
I do not hold the view "God exists." So an athiest (or even a theist
for that matter) might define me a | | | | | | | | | | | |
