in article MPG.1ab133e78a85caeb98969f@netnews.upenn.edu, Ian at
masakado-kou@yahoo.com wrote on 04 03 2004 11:16:

In article <BC6C68A7.11B02%

in article 0WC1c.502$sq2.468@newsfe2-gui.server.ntli.net, kevin
hollingsworth at

Is Atheism a absense of religious belief or a absense of God belief? Given
that studies have shown that religious believers live longer and less
stressed lives than non-relgiious believers (I did a google search on this
and it seems to hold up to some scrutiny) wouldn't it be a advantage for
most atheists to have some kind of meditation/relaxation practice in their
lives. Apparently atheists have a higher IQ on average than religious types
(I did a google search on this too!!!) I wonder why this increased
intelligence isn't linked to increased lifespan? I'm talking group
statistics here not individual variations...

Kevin:

Find a copy of the Diamond Sutra, the oldest extant printed book (a good bit
older than Gutenberg's Bible). Just read the intro, and you can see that in
Buddhism, there are many gods. Demons too.

Modern-day Buddhism doesn't much concern itself with the gods. It's much
more about how to live.

Then again, find an uncorrupted version of the Old Testament. It begins like
this: "In the beginning, the Mighty Ones created Heaven and Earth."

When the OT was translated into Greek, the folks who did it tried to remove
the references to many gods and leave the impression that there is but one.
Still, you can find quite a number of places in a modern Bible where there
are still references to many gods, as in the first of the ten commandments.

From my experience, most Buddhists speak as if there were only one god.

I think you're making an erroneous assumption here. First, while the
Diamond sutra does talk of supernatural beings (deva, asura, etc)
they're not really "gods" in the sense that we think of them (i.e.
divine creators of the universe) In that set of beliefs, there are six
different levels of beings (from "best" to "worst" deva, asura, human,
animal, hungry spirit, and hell-creature) that one gets reincarnated
into based on karma from their past life. I.e. if you were good in this
life but didn't succeed in becoming a Buddha, you might be a deva in the
next life. But all the creatures on these six tiers are subject to the
same "laws of the universe." In that sense, even the so-called "gods"
are inferior to the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas that "escaped" the cycle of
reincarnation, and anything potentially can become a Buddha. (ie that
fly you squashed might have attained buddhahood and is now superior to
the "gods")

Second, the Diamond sutra is not exactly a core text of Buddhism--it's
only really important in Mahayana Buddhism--in Theraveda Buddhism and
Eastern (Zen) Buddhism it's not even really considered. There's pretty
much no teaching or core text common to all sects of Buddhism (like the
Bible is to all Christian sects for example) aside from the Four Noble
Truths, which say absolutely nothing about gods. The other teachings of
the various sects vary so wildly over the map that you can't really
pigeonhole "Buddhists" into one set of beliefs. (Some believe in gods,
some don't. Some believe you can attain by salvation through "faith,"
some believe faith will get you nowhere. Some believe in direct
reincarnation, some don't. It varies a heck of a lot.)

A note here that Mahayana, or "pure land" sect of Buddhism is probably
the "branch" of Buddhism that is closest to "theism" in the sense that
we normally think of it in the West. While they don't really have gods
that make a lick of difference per se, they're very big on
Bodhisattvas--those that attain Buddhahood but hold off on becoming full
Buddhas (since full Buddhas become completely separated from the
universe) and remain "behind" more or less as "spirits" until everyone
else successfully becomes a Buddha. Mahayana sects often stress praying
to the various Bodhisattvas, saying that Buddhahood is virtually
impossible to attain on one's own, and you need to have faith in the
Bodhisattvas to get enlightenment. Theraveda on the other hand is not
big on Bodhisattvas and gods, and more philosophically oriented. So is
Zen, which basically originated in China as a (pretty sucessful) attempt
to strip all the theistic baggage from Mahayana Buddhism, with a heavy
dose of Daoist influence to boot. Practicioners of Zen are also not very
big on gods either.

Much thanks for the info. I admit of great ignorance concerning Buddhism. I
imagined the Sutras were central to it.

Right before me, I have the Threefold Lotus Sutra. In the very first
paragraph, it specifically mentions the gods.

I've asked quite a number of Buddhists about what they believe, and they all
seem to have a different answer. Quite unlike the Monogod religions, it
seems to me.