| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"TheScientificTruth" |
| Date: |
03 Apr 2004 11:33:52 PM |
| Object: |
Are fundamentalists really that ignorant? |
When I was a fundamentalist Christian, I remember hearing many
preachers say that one of the reasons that Christianity is true is
because it is the only religion to claim that its saviour died and
rose again. Now that I am an educated person, I know that practically
every doctrine in the new testament (atonement, eucharist,
resurrection of saviour after 3 days of burial, 12 disciples,
resurrection of dead, final battle of good vs. evil then eternal
bliss, etc.)was stolen from preexisting religions like Mithra and
Zorostariansm. My question is do preachers really not know about these
religions or do they know and just keep quiet? How can anybody still
believe in Christianity when faced with the overwhelming evidence that
it came from pagan sources (even the fall of man comes from sumerian
mythology; for that matter, all of Genesis 1-6 comes from sumerian and
babyloniam mythology)? I would like Christians and atheists to
respond.
.
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| User: "Randy Story" |
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| Title: Re: Are fundamentalists really that ignorant? |
04 Apr 2004 01:35:19 AM |
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"TheScientificTruth" <scientificfundamentalist@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:985fee65.0404032133.4d20b309@posting.google.com...
When I was a fundamentalist Christian, I remember hearing many
preachers say that one of the reasons that Christianity is true is
because it is the only religion to claim that its saviour died and
rose again. Now that I am an educated person, I know that practically
every doctrine in the new testament (atonement, eucharist,
resurrection of saviour after 3 days of burial, 12 disciples,
resurrection of dead, final battle of good vs. evil then eternal
bliss, etc.)was stolen from preexisting religions like Mithra and
Zorostariansm. My question is do preachers really not know about these
religions or do they know and just keep quiet? How can anybody still
believe in Christianity when faced with the overwhelming evidence that
it came from pagan sources (even the fall of man comes from sumerian
mythology; for that matter, all of Genesis 1-6 comes from sumerian and
babyloniam mythology)? I would like Christians and atheists to
respond.
Even a casual reading of the Sumerian text compared th the Hebrew scriptures
is like comparing first grade fantasys to high school composition. Did you
even read through some
of those stories. The difference is even if some of the texts are older it
matters little. God gave to Moses the truth concerning and conveyed it like
history What the Sumerian and others is handed down by word of mouth and
finally turns to myth. Read the flood story as an example and tell me which
is more credible.
.
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Are fundamentalists really that ignorant? |
04 Apr 2004 04:59:30 AM |
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"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:106vetsp169mj0f@corp.supernews.com...
"TheScientificTruth" <scientificfundamentalist@hotmail.com> wrote in
message
news:985fee65.0404032133.4d20b309@posting.google.com...
When I was a fundamentalist Christian, I remember hearing many
preachers say that one of the reasons that Christianity is true is
because it is the only religion to claim that its saviour died and
rose again. Now that I am an educated person, I know that practically
every doctrine in the new testament (atonement, eucharist,
resurrection of saviour after 3 days of burial, 12 disciples,
resurrection of dead, final battle of good vs. evil then eternal
bliss, etc.)was stolen from preexisting religions like Mithra and
Zorostariansm. My question is do preachers really not know about these
religions or do they know and just keep quiet? How can anybody still
believe in Christianity when faced with the overwhelming evidence that
it came from pagan sources (even the fall of man comes from sumerian
mythology; for that matter, all of Genesis 1-6 comes from sumerian and
babyloniam mythology)? I would like Christians and atheists to
respond.
Even a casual reading of the Sumerian text compared th the Hebrew
scriptures
is like comparing first grade fantasys to high school composition. Did you
even read through some
of those stories. The difference is even if some of the texts are older
it
matters little. God gave to Moses the truth concerning and conveyed it
like
history What the Sumerian and others is handed down by word of mouth and
finally turns to myth. Read the flood story as an example and tell me
which
is more credible.
There goes another Irony-O-Meter.
Dude, everything in the bible is word of mouth. Nothing was written down,
apparently, at the time it was supposed to have happened, but more like 50
to 100 years later. Did you really not know that?
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
.
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| User: "Randy Story" |
|
| Title: Re: Are fundamentalists really that ignorant? |
04 Apr 2004 10:39:54 AM |
|
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"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:4JmdnSEC_JvhQfLdRVn-sQ@io.com...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:106vetsp169mj0f@corp.supernews.com...
"TheScientificTruth" <scientificfundamentalist@hotmail.com> wrote in
message
news:985fee65.0404032133.4d20b309@posting.google.com...
When I was a fundamentalist Christian, I remember hearing many
preachers say that one of the reasons that Christianity is true is
because it is the only religion to claim that its saviour died and
rose again. Now that I am an educated person, I know that practically
every doctrine in the new testament (atonement, eucharist,
resurrection of saviour after 3 days of burial, 12 disciples,
resurrection of dead, final battle of good vs. evil then eternal
bliss, etc.)was stolen from preexisting religions like Mithra and
Zorostariansm. My question is do preachers really not know about these
religions or do they know and just keep quiet? How can anybody still
believe in Christianity when faced with the overwhelming evidence that
it came from pagan sources (even the fall of man comes from sumerian
mythology; for that matter, all of Genesis 1-6 comes from sumerian and
babyloniam mythology)? I would like Christians and atheists to
respond.
Even a casual reading of the Sumerian text compared th the Hebrew
scriptures
is like comparing first grade fantasys to high school composition. Did
you
even read through some
of those stories. The difference is even if some of the texts are older
it
matters little. God gave to Moses the truth concerning and conveyed it
like
history What the Sumerian and others is handed down by word of mouth and
finally turns to myth. Read the flood story as an example and tell me
which
is more credible.
There goes another Irony-O-Meter.
Dude, everything in the bible is word of mouth. Nothing was written down,
apparently, at the time it was supposed to have happened, but more like 50
to 100 years later. Did you really not know that?
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
Waht all this really comes down to is does the Christian theistic God exist.
If he does and their is good evidence then miracles are possibler. If he
conveyed thru men his truth then it is not second hand.
Jesus offered 4 lines of evidence as to his deity.
1. Fulfilled prophecy that even to the skeptical reader is beyond natural
since all the old testament was completed before he was born. Where he was
to be born, when, how, and dozens of other very clear prophecies. Not like
Notradamas, laugh, laugh.
2. Supernatural miracles unlike any before and witnessed by thousands.
3. A sinless life , he even ask his accusers if any convicted him of sin.
4. His claimed and accomplished his own ressurection. He siad he freely
layed his life down and that he had the power to raise it up again.\
As such Jesus is God in the flesh. God can not be wrong about what he
knows. Therefore what is written in the scriptures is true. He claimed the
old testament was truth and he promised to bring to remembrance for
posterity to the apostles what they had witnesses and heard.
.
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: Are fundamentalists really that ignorant? |
04 Apr 2004 03:14:27 PM |
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"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> honored us in alt.atheism with the
following discourse:
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:4JmdnSEC_JvhQfLdRVn-sQ@io.com...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:106vetsp169mj0f@corp.supernews.com...
(snip)
Waht all this really comes down to is does the Christian theistic God
exist. If he does and their is good evidence then miracles are
possibler. If he conveyed thru men his truth then it is not second
hand.
Jesus offered 4 lines of evidence as to his deity.
1. Fulfilled prophecy that even to the skeptical reader is beyond
natural since all the old testament was completed before he was born.
Where he was to be born, when, how, and dozens of other very clear
prophecies. Not like Notradamas, laugh, laugh.
2. Supernatural miracles unlike any before and witnessed by
thousands. 3. A sinless life , he even ask his accusers if any
convicted him of sin. 4. His claimed and accomplished his own
ressurection. He siad he freely layed his life down and that he had
the power to raise it up again.\
As such Jesus is God in the flesh. God can not be wrong about what
he
knows. Therefore what is written in the scriptures is true. He claimed
the old testament was truth and he promised to bring to remembrance
for posterity to the apostles what they had witnesses and heard.
OK. Since you've used the bible as your evidence that this Jesus was
really god, all you have to do now is prove that the bible is a true and
accurate account of things that really happened.
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political institution for the control of
people's thoughts, lives, and actions; based on
ancient myths and superstitions perpetrated through
generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
.
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| User: "Ash" |
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| Title: Re: Are fundamentalists really that ignorant? |
04 Apr 2004 05:09:13 PM |
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Woden wrote:
OK. Since you've used the bible as your evidence that this Jesus was
really god, all you have to do now is prove that the bible is a true and
accurate account of things that really happened.
It says so and the bible wouldn't lie
--
#1636
Not BAAWA
.
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: Are fundamentalists really that ignorant? |
05 Apr 2004 10:21:17 AM |
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"Ash" <Ashamanic@winterfell73.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c4q1bp$adc$5@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
Woden wrote:
OK. Since you've used the bible as your evidence that this Jesus was
really god, all you have to do now is prove that the bible is a true and
accurate account of things that really happened.
It says so and the bible wouldn't lie
Says who ?
The fucking 'Reader Digest version of Christian texts', also called the
Bible,
can't even agree on what day Jesus died, or what his last words were !
Crazy !!!
--
Jez
"The condition of alienation, of being asleep, of being unconscious,
of being out of one's mind, is the condition of the normal man. Society
highly values its normal man.It educates children to lose themselves
and to become absurd,and thus to be normal. Normal men have killed
perhaps 100,000,000 of their fellow normal men in the last fifty years."
R.D. Laing
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Are fundamentalists really that ignorant? |
09 Apr 2004 07:31:30 PM |
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On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 23:09:13 +0100, Ash
<Ashamanic@winterfell73.fsnet.co.uk>, Message ID:
<c4q1bp$adc$5@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk> wrote in alt.atheism;
Woden wrote:
OK. Since you've used the bible as your evidence that this Jesus was
really god, all you have to do now is prove that the bible is a true and
accurate account of things that really happened.
It says so and the bible wouldn't lie
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHA!!!!!
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
.
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| User: "Maverick" |
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| Title: Re: Are fundamentalists really that ignorant? |
04 Apr 2004 12:12:19 PM |
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"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in
news:1070befqf0bpd31@corp.supernews.com:
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:4JmdnSEC_JvhQfLdRVn-sQ@io.com...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:106vetsp169mj0f@corp.supernews.com...
"TheScientificTruth" <scientificfundamentalist@hotmail.com> wrote
in
message
news:985fee65.0404032133.4d20b309@posting.google.com...
When I was a fundamentalist Christian, I remember hearing many
preachers say that one of the reasons that Christianity is true
is because it is the only religion to claim that its saviour died
and rose again. Now that I am an educated person, I know that
practically every doctrine in the new testament (atonement,
eucharist, resurrection of saviour after 3 days of burial, 12
disciples, resurrection of dead, final battle of good vs. evil
then eternal bliss, etc.)was stolen from preexisting religions
like Mithra and Zorostariansm. My question is do preachers really
not know about these religions or do they know and just keep
quiet? How can anybody still believe in Christianity when faced
with the overwhelming evidence that it came from pagan sources
(even the fall of man comes from sumerian mythology; for that
matter, all of Genesis 1-6 comes from sumerian and babyloniam
mythology)? I would like Christians and atheists to respond.
Even a casual reading of the Sumerian text compared th the Hebrew
scriptures
is like comparing first grade fantasys to high school composition.
Did
you
even read through some
of those stories. The difference is even if some of the texts are
older
it
matters little. God gave to Moses the truth concerning and conveyed
it
like
history What the Sumerian and others is handed down by word of
mouth and finally turns to myth. Read the flood story as an example
and tell me
which
is more credible.
There goes another Irony-O-Meter.
Dude, everything in the bible is word of mouth. Nothing was written
down, apparently, at the time it was supposed to have happened, but
more like 50 to 100 years later. Did you really not know that?
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
Waht all this really comes down to is does the Christian theistic God
exist. If he does and their is good evidence then miracles are
possibler. If he conveyed thru men his truth then it is not second
hand.
Jesus offered 4 lines of evidence as to his deity.
1. Fulfilled prophecy that even to the skeptical reader is beyond
natural since all the old testament was completed before he was born.
Where he was to be born, when, how, and dozens of other very clear
prophecies. Not like Notradamas, laugh, laugh.
2. Supernatural miracles unlike any before and witnessed by
thousands. 3. A sinless life , he even ask his accusers if any
convicted him of sin. 4. His claimed and accomplished his own
ressurection. He siad he freely layed his life down and that he had
the power to raise it up again.\
As such Jesus is God in the flesh. God can not be wrong about what
he
knows. Therefore what is written in the scriptures is true. He claimed
the old testament was truth and he promised to bring to remembrance
for posterity to the apostles what they had witnesses and heard.
Even if he was the nicest magician ever, that says absolutely nothing
about whether he was the son of god or not. That is, if we're ready to
assume that what the Bible say is true. clearly, many things aren't.
.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Are fundamentalists really that ignorant? |
04 Apr 2004 10:54:15 AM |
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"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in alt.atheism
As such Jesus is God in the flesh. God can not be wrong about what he
knows. Therefore what is written in the scriptures is true. He claimed the
old testament was truth and he promised to bring to remembrance for
posterity to the apostles what they had witnesses and heard.
Boy, you're dumber than a rock.
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
.
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| User: "Optional" |
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| Title: Re: Are fundamentalists really that ignorant? |
04 Apr 2004 10:50:41 AM |
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On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 15:54:15 GMT, Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net>
wrote:
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in alt.atheism
As such Jesus is God in the flesh. God can not be wrong about what he
knows. Therefore what is written in the scriptures is true. He claimed the
old testament was truth and he promised to bring to remembrance for
posterity to the apostles what they had witnesses and heard.
Boy, you're dumber than a rock.
God created rocks too.
.
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| User: "L.S.L" |
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| Title: Re: Are fundamentalists really that ignorant? |
04 Apr 2004 01:17:29 PM |
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On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 13:20:15 -0500, William Klee <fnordy2k@yahoo.com>
wrote:
In article <62bdcbe4cffc4e5696cab3bb3d002d9b@news.teranews.com>,
Optional <optional@optional.com> wrote:
On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 15:54:15 GMT, Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net>
wrote:
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in alt.atheism
As such Jesus is God in the flesh. God can not be wrong about what he
knows. Therefore what is written in the scriptures is true. He claimed the
old testament was truth and he promised to bring to remembrance for
posterity to the apostles what they had witnesses and heard.
Boy, you're dumber than a rock.
God created rocks too.
Must have got poor randy's characteristics out of the wrong box, then.
Does this mean that somewhere out there, there's an intelligent rock?
As compared to most who post here? Yes.
.
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: Are fundamentalists really that ignorant? |
04 Apr 2004 02:22:14 PM |
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One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Optional:
On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 15:54:15 GMT, Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net>
wrote:
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in alt.atheism
As such Jesus is God in the flesh. God can not be wrong about what
he
knows. Therefore what is written in the scriptures is true. He
claimed the old testament was truth and he promised to bring to
remembrance for posterity to the apostles what they had witnesses and
heard.
Boy, you're dumber than a rock.
God created rocks too.
<crosspoting removed>
Why did you just set a following to all those irrelevant groups? So your
buddies can watch you make a fool out of yourself?
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
______________
Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day.
Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish.
--Timothy Jones
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Are fundamentalists really that ignorant? |
09 Apr 2004 06:17:22 PM |
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On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 15:54:15 GMT, Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net>,
Message ID: <mrb070hbdahcc6e239vj94pk4v8fkl7npu@4ax.com> wrote in
alt.atheism;
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in alt.atheism
As such Jesus is God in the flesh. God can not be wrong about what he
knows. Therefore what is written in the scriptures is true. He claimed the
old testament was truth and he promised to bring to remembrance for
posterity to the apostles what they had witnesses and heard.
Boy, you're dumber than a rock.
Rocks have double doctorates in theoretical physics and chaos theory in
comparison.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
.
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Are fundamentalists really that ignorant? |
04 Apr 2004 04:36:03 PM |
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"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:1070befqf0bpd31@corp.supernews.com...
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:4JmdnSEC_JvhQfLdRVn-sQ@io.com...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:106vetsp169mj0f@corp.supernews.com...
"TheScientificTruth" <scientificfundamentalist@hotmail.com> wrote in
message
news:985fee65.0404032133.4d20b309@posting.google.com...
When I was a fundamentalist Christian, I remember hearing many
preachers say that one of the reasons that Christianity is true is
because it is the only religion to claim that its saviour died and
rose again. Now that I am an educated person, I know that
practically
every doctrine in the new testament (atonement, eucharist,
resurrection of saviour after 3 days of burial, 12 disciples,
resurrection of dead, final battle of good vs. evil then eternal
bliss, etc.)was stolen from preexisting religions like Mithra and
Zorostariansm. My question is do preachers really not know about
these
religions or do they know and just keep quiet? How can anybody still
believe in Christianity when faced with the overwhelming evidence
that
it came from pagan sources (even the fall of man comes from sumerian
mythology; for that matter, all of Genesis 1-6 comes from sumerian
and
babyloniam mythology)? I would like Christians and atheists to
respond.
Even a casual reading of the Sumerian text compared th the Hebrew
scriptures
is like comparing first grade fantasys to high school composition. Did
you
even read through some
of those stories. The difference is even if some of the texts are
older
it
matters little. God gave to Moses the truth concerning and conveyed it
like
history What the Sumerian and others is handed down by word of mouth
and
finally turns to myth. Read the flood story as an example and tell me
which
is more credible.
There goes another Irony-O-Meter.
Dude, everything in the bible is word of mouth. Nothing was written
down,
apparently, at the time it was supposed to have happened, but more like
50
to 100 years later. Did you really not know that?
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
Waht all this really comes down to is does the Christian theistic God
exist.
Actually, you're right! It does! Got any hard evidence to that effect?
If he does and their is good evidence then miracles are possibler. If he
conveyed thru men his truth then it is not second hand.
But how do you know which men are lying and which, if any, aren't?
Jesus offered 4 lines of evidence as to his deity.
No. The guys who wrote what they wanted the Jesus character to do offered 4
lines of "evidence" as to its deity.
1. Fulfilled prophecy that even to the skeptical reader is beyond natural
since all the old testament was completed before he was born. Where he was
to be born, when, how, and dozens of other very clear prophecies. Not like
Notradamas, laugh, laugh.
2. Supernatural miracles unlike any before and witnessed by thousands.
3. A sinless life , he even ask his accusers if any convicted him of sin.
4. His claimed and accomplished his own ressurection. He siad he freely
layed his life down and that he had the power to raise it up again.\
Since we can't be sure the Jesus character did any of this, it's worthless.
All you have is some unnamed author's insistence that this is what Jesus
did. Boy, your standards of evidence are low.
As such Jesus is God in the flesh. God can not be wrong about what he
knows. Therefore what is written in the scriptures is true. He claimed the
old testament was truth and he promised to bring to remembrance for
posterity to the apostles what they had witnesses and heard.
According to whoever the ***** wrote it.
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Are fundamentalists really that ignorant? |
04 Apr 2004 01:07:52 PM |
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"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:1070befqf0bpd31@corp.supernews.com...
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:4JmdnSEC_JvhQfLdRVn-sQ@io.com...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:106vetsp169mj0f@corp.supernews.com...
"TheScientificTruth" <scientificfundamentalist@hotmail.com> wrote in
message
news:985fee65.0404032133.4d20b309@posting.google.com...
When I was a fundamentalist Christian, I remember hearing many
preachers say that one of the reasons that Christianity is true is
because it is the only religion to claim that its saviour died and
rose again. Now that I am an educated person, I know that
practically
every doctrine in the new testament (atonement, eucharist,
resurrection of saviour after 3 days of burial, 12 disciples,
resurrection of dead, final battle of good vs. evil then eternal
bliss, etc.)was stolen from preexisting religions like Mithra and
Zorostariansm. My question is do preachers really not know about
these
religions or do they know and just keep quiet? How can anybody still
believe in Christianity when faced with the overwhelming evidence
that
it came from pagan sources (even the fall of man comes from sumerian
mythology; for that matter, all of Genesis 1-6 comes from sumerian
and
babyloniam mythology)? I would like Christians and atheists to
respond.
Even a casual reading of the Sumerian text compared th the Hebrew
scriptures
is like comparing first grade fantasys to high school composition. Did
you
even read through some
of those stories. The difference is even if some of the texts are
older
it
matters little. God gave to Moses the truth concerning and conveyed it
like
history What the Sumerian and others is handed down by word of mouth
and
finally turns to myth. Read the flood story as an example and tell me
which
is more credible.
None of the flood stories are credable and there are two of them in the
christian bible.
Which is more crediable two different stories in the same book, both claimed
to be true by current readers or one older version without nearly the scope.
There goes another Irony-O-Meter.
Dude, everything in the bible is word of mouth. Nothing was written
down,
apparently, at the time it was supposed to have happened, but more like
50
to 100 years later. Did you really not know that?
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
Waht all this really comes down to is does the Christian theistic God
exist.
If he does and their is good evidence then miracles are possibler. If he
conveyed thru men his truth then it is not second hand.
Jesus offered 4 lines of evidence as to his deity.
1. Fulfilled prophecy that even to the skeptical reader is beyond natural
since all the old testament was completed before he was born. Where he was
to be born, when, how, and dozens of other very clear prophecies. Not like
Notradamas, laugh, laugh.
This skeptical reader who reads these so called prophecy wonders how long it
took to make up the links. They can't even get the name right and the Jews
point out that Christ, if he existed, did not fill many of the things they
were expecting.
2. Supernatural miracles unlike any before and witnessed by thousands.
And with no mention anyplace except in one part of the NT, the gospels. You
would think that they would have been mentioned in at least the rest of the
book.
3. A sinless life , he even ask his accusers if any convicted him of sin.
My life has been sinless also.
4. His claimed and accomplished his own ressurection. He siad he freely
layed his life down and that he had the power to raise it up again.\
As pointed out, this is not original. Rebirth is as old as the realization
that spring follows winter.
As such Jesus is God in the flesh. God can not be wrong about what he
knows. Therefore what is written in the scriptures is true. He claimed the
old testament was truth and he promised to bring to remembrance for
posterity to the apostles what they had witnesses and heard.
I tried arguments like this in college but the instructors still said the
math was wrong.
.
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| User: "Optional" |
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| Title: Re: Are fundamentalists really that ignorant? |
04 Apr 2004 10:50:06 AM |
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Waht all this really comes down to is does the Christian theistic God exist.
If he does and their is good evidence then miracles are possibler. If he
Good point, but if you're going to spread the Word, Then learn to
spell.
HTH
.
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| User: "John M Price PhD" |
|
| Title: Re: Are fundamentalists really that ignorant? |
04 Apr 2004 11:23:32 AM |
|
|
English is your second language, correct?
In alt.atheism article <1070befqf0bpd31@corp.supernews.com> Randy Story <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote:
: "Denis Loubet" <> wrote in message
: news:4JmdnSEC_JvhQfLdRVn-sQ@io.com...
: >
: > "Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
: > news:106vetsp169mj0f@corp.supernews.com...
: > >
: > > "TheScientificTruth" <scientificfundamentalist@hotmail.com> wrote in
: > message
: > > news:985fee65.0404032133.4d20b309@posting.google.com...
: > > > When I was a fundamentalist Christian, I remember hearing many
: > > > preachers say that one of the reasons that Christianity is true is
: > > > because it is the only religion to claim that its saviour died and
: > > > rose again. Now that I am an educated person, I know that practically
: > > > every doctrine in the new testament (atonement, eucharist,
: > > > resurrection of saviour after 3 days of burial, 12 disciples,
: > > > resurrection of dead, final battle of good vs. evil then eternal
: > > > bliss, etc.)was stolen from preexisting religions like Mithra and
: > > > Zorostariansm. My question is do preachers really not know about these
: > > > religions or do they know and just keep quiet? How can anybody still
: > > > believe in Christianity when faced with the overwhelming evidence that
: > > > it came from pagan sources (even the fall of man comes from sumerian
: > > > mythology; for that matter, all of Genesis 1-6 comes from sumerian and
: > > > babyloniam mythology)? I would like Christians and atheists to
: > > > respond.
: > >
: > >
: > >
: > >
: > > Even a casual reading of the Sumerian text compared th the Hebrew
: > scriptures
: > > is like comparing first grade fantasys to high school composition. Did
: you
: > > even read through some
: > > of those stories. The difference is even if some of the texts are older
: > it
: > > matters little. God gave to Moses the truth concerning and conveyed it
: > like
: > > history What the Sumerian and others is handed down by word of mouth and
: > > finally turns to myth. Read the flood story as an example and tell me
: > which
: > > is more credible.
: >
: > There goes another Irony-O-Meter.
: >
: > Dude, everything in the bible is word of mouth. Nothing was written down,
: > apparently, at the time it was supposed to have happened, but more like 50
: > to 100 years later. Did you really not know that?
: >
: > Denis Loubet
: >
: > http://www.io.com/~dloubet
: Waht all this really comes down to is does the Christian theistic God exist.
: If he does and their is good evidence then miracles are possibler. If he
: conveyed thru men his truth then it is not second hand.
: Jesus offered 4 lines of evidence as to his deity.
: 1. Fulfilled prophecy that even to the skeptical reader is beyond natural
: since all the old testament was completed before he was born. Where he was
: to be born, when, how, and dozens of other very clear prophecies. Not like
: Notradamas, laugh, laugh.
: 2. Supernatural miracles unlike any before and witnessed by thousands.
: 3. A sinless life , he even ask his accusers if any convicted him of sin.
: 4. His claimed and accomplished his own ressurection. He siad he freely
: layed his life down and that he had the power to raise it up again.\
: As such Jesus is God in the flesh. God can not be wrong about what he
: knows. Therefore what is written in the scriptures is true. He claimed the
: old testament was truth and he promised to bring to remembrance for
: posterity to the apostles what they had witnesses and heard.
(c) 2004. Copyright, John M. Price, PhD. All Rights Reserved.
Contents may not be republished in any form or medium without prior
written consent of the author with the express and only exception of
followup postings limited to and within usenet.
--
John M. Price, PhD
Life: Chemistry, but with feeling! | PGP Key on request or FTP!
Email responses to my Usenet articles will be posted at my discretion.
Comoderator: sci.psychology.psychotherapy.moderated Atheist# 683
Festivity Level 1: Your guests are chatting amiably with each
other, admiring your Christmas-tree ornaments, singing carols around
the upright piano, sipping at their drinks and nibbling hors
d'oeuvres.
Festivity Level 2: Your guests are talking loudly -- sometimes
to each other, and sometimes to nobody at all, rearranging your
Christmas-tree ornaments, singing "I Gotta Be Me" around the upright
piano, gulping their drinks and wolfing down hors d'oeuvres.
Festivity Level 3: Your guests are arguing violently with
inanimate objects, singing "I can't get no satisfaction," gulping down
other peoples' drinks, wolfing down Christmas tree ornaments and
placing hors d'oeuvres in the upright piano to see what happens when
the little hammers strike.
Festivity Level 4: Your guests, hors d'oeuvres smeared all over
their naked bodies are performing a ritual dance around the burning
Christmas tree. The piano is missing.
You want to keep your party somewhere around level 3, unless
you rent your home and own Firearms, in which case you can go to level
4. The best way to get to level 3 is egg-nog.
.
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| User: "BDK" |
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| Title: Re: Are fundamentalists really that ignorant? |
05 Apr 2004 03:48:17 AM |
|
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In article <40703684$0$71056$d368eab@news.calweb.com>,
jmprice@calweb.com says...
English is your second language, correct?
In alt.atheism article <1070befqf0bpd31@corp.supernews.com> Randy Story <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote:
: "Denis Loubet" < > wrote in message
: news:4JmdnSEC_JvhQfLdRVn-sQ@io.com...
: >
: > "Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
: > news:106vetsp169mj0f@corp.supernews.com...
: > >
: > > "TheScientificTruth" <scientificfundamentalist@hotmail.com> wrote in
: > message
: > > news:985fee65.0404032133.4d20b309@posting.google.com...
: > > > When I was a fundamentalist Christian, I remember hearing many
: > > > preachers say that one of the reasons that Christianity is true is
: > > > because it is the only religion to claim that its saviour died and
: > > > rose again. Now that I am an educated person, I know that practically
: > > > every doctrine in the new testament (atonement, eucharist,
: > > > resurrection of saviour after 3 days of burial, 12 disciples,
: > > > resurrection of dead, final battle of good vs. evil then eternal
: > > > bliss, etc.)was stolen from preexisting religions like Mithra and
: > > > Zorostariansm. My question is do preachers really not know about these
: > > > religions or do they know and just keep quiet? How can anybody still
: > > > believe in Christianity when faced with the overwhelming evidence that
: > > > it came from pagan sources (even the fall of man comes from sumerian
: > > > mythology; for that matter, all of Genesis 1-6 comes from sumerian and
: > > > babyloniam mythology)? I would like Christians and atheists to
: > > > respond.
: > >
: > >
: > >
: > >
: > > Even a casual reading of the Sumerian text compared th the Hebrew
: > scriptures
: > > is like comparing first grade fantasys to high school composition. Did
: you
: > > even read through some
: > > of those stories. The difference is even if some of the texts are older
: > it
: > > matters little. God gave to Moses the truth concerning and conveyed it
: > like
: > > history What the Sumerian and others is handed down by word of mouth and
: > > finally turns to myth. Read the flood story as an example and tell me
: > which
: > > is more credible.
: >
: > There goes another Irony-O-Meter.
: >
: > Dude, everything in the bible is word of mouth. Nothing was written down,
: > apparently, at the time it was supposed to have happened, but more like 50
: > to 100 years later. Did you really not know that?
: >
: > Denis Loubet
: >
: > http://www.io.com/~dloubet
: Waht all this really comes down to is does the Christian theistic God exist.
: If he does and their is good evidence then miracles are possibler. If he
: conveyed thru men his truth then it is not second hand.
: Jesus offered 4 lines of evidence as to his deity.
: 1. Fulfilled prophecy that even to the skeptical reader is beyond natural
: since all the old testament was completed before he was born. Where he was
: to be born, when, how, and dozens of other very clear prophecies. Not like
: Notradamas, laugh, laugh.
: 2. Supernatural miracles unlike any before and witnessed by thousands.
: 3. A sinless life , he even ask his accusers if any convicted him of sin.
: 4. His claimed and accomplished his own ressurection. He siad he freely
: layed his life down and that he had the power to raise it up again.\
: As such Jesus is God in the flesh. God can not be wrong about what he
: knows. Therefore what is written in the scriptures is true. He claimed the
: old testament was truth and he promised to bring to remembrance for
: posterity to the apostles what they had witnesses and heard.
(c) 2004. Copyright, John M. Price, PhD. All Rights Reserved.
Contents may not be republished in any form or medium without prior
written consent of the author with the express and only exception of
followup postings limited to and within usenet.
I'm guessing he's a grad of someplace like "Billy Bob's Bible and fancy
schooling Academy".
BDK
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Are fundamentalists really that ignorant? |
09 Apr 2004 06:18:54 PM |
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On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 04:48:17 -0400, BDK
<kingratboyoboy@buckeye-express.com>, Message ID:
<MPG.1adae761e3cbec9198995d@news.buckeye-express.com> wrote in
alt.atheism;
In article <40703684$0$71056$d368eab@news.calweb.com>,
jmprice@calweb.com says...
English is your second language, correct?
In alt.atheism article <1070befqf0bpd31@corp.supernews.com> Randy Story <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote:
(snip)
I'm guessing he's a grad of someplace like "Billy Bob's Bible and fancy
schooling Academy".
BOHICA Academy.
BDK
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
.
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| User: "Josef Balluch" |
|
| Title: Re: Are fundamentalists really that ignorant? |
04 Apr 2004 10:05:57 PM |
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In a message sent 'round the world, Randy Story poured fuel on the fire
with the following:
....
Waht all this really comes down to is does the Christian theistic God exist.
And it has been shown to you many times that your deity does not exist.
If he does and their is good evidence ...
None that you have ever produced.
....
Jesus offered 4 lines of evidence as to his deity.
1. Fulfilled prophecy that even to the skeptical reader is beyond natural
since all the old testament was completed before he was born. Where he was
to be born, when, how, and dozens of other very clear prophecies. Not like
Notradamas, laugh, laugh.
Anyone can write a book, Randy. Produce some proof that the events
actually occurred as recorded.
2. Supernatural miracles unlike any before and witnessed by thousands.
The miracles of Allah have also been witnessed by thousands.
http://www.mcn.org/1/Miracles/allaharchive.htm
http://tinyurl.com/3yeo7
http://tinyurl.com/24bp7
3. A sinless life , he even ask his accusers if any convicted him of sin.
Naturalistic Fallacy.
4. His claimed and accomplished his own ressurection. He siad he freely
layed his life down and that he had the power to raise it up again.\
"Resurrections" were a dime a dozen at a time when medical science did
not exist.
As such Jesus is God in the flesh.
Unsupportable assertion.
God can not be wrong about what he
knows.
But you certainly can be, as you have demonstrated repeatedly.
Therefore what is written in the scriptures is true.
Unsupportable assertion.
....
Regards,
Josef
The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity.
-- John Adams
.
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| User: "tommyknocker" |
|
| Title: Re: Are fundamentalists really that ignorant? |
04 Apr 2004 10:53:52 PM |
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|
Josef Balluch wrote:
In a message sent 'round the world, Randy Story poured fuel on the fire
with the following:
Jesus offered 4 lines of evidence as to his deity.
1. Fulfilled prophecy that even to the skeptical reader is beyond natural
since all the old testament was completed before he was born. Where he was
to be born, when, how, and dozens of other very clear prophecies. Not like
Notradamas, laugh, laugh.
Anyone can write a book, Randy. Produce some proof that the events
actually occurred as recorded.
I can produce proof that they *didn't*. For example, the book of Matthew
says that Jesus was born of a virgin, and that this fulfills the OT
prophecy. But it doesn't. The OT, in the original Hebrew, says that the
Messiah will be born of a "young woman". Whoever wrote Matthew relied on
a faulty Greek translation that rendered "young woman" as "virgin".
Apparently the Hebrew words are similar. Oops.
4. His claimed and accomplished his own ressurection. He siad he freely
layed his life down and that he had the power to raise it up again.\
"Resurrections" were a dime a dozen at a time when medical science did
not exist.
In fact, medical science has documented instances of people who seemed
to be "dead" reviving. It doesn't happen as much today, but it still
happens. Apparently severe trauma can make the body go into shock and
stop breathing-a shock that goes away and causes the sufferer to
"resurrect". This is probably the origin of the myth of the resurrected
god.
.
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| User: "BDK" |
|
| Title: Re: Are fundamentalists really that ignorant? |
05 Apr 2004 03:46:15 AM |
|
|
In article <1070befqf0bpd31@corp.supernews.com>,
says...
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:4JmdnSEC_JvhQfLdRVn-sQ@io.com...
"Randy Story" < > wrote in message
news:106vetsp169mj0f@corp.supernews.com...
"TheScientificTruth" <scientificfundamentalist@hotmail.com> wrote in
message
news:985fee65.0404032133.4d20b309@posting.google.com...
When I was a fundamentalist Christian, I remember hearing many
preachers say that one of the reasons that Christianity is true is
because it is the only religion to claim that its saviour died and
rose again. Now that I am an educated person, I know that practically
every doctrine in the new testament (atonement, eucharist,
resurrection of saviour after 3 days of burial, 12 disciples,
resurrection of dead, final battle of good vs. evil then eternal
bliss, etc.)was stolen from preexisting religions like Mithra and
Zorostariansm. My question is do preachers really not know about these
religions or do they know and just keep quiet? How can anybody still
believe in Christianity when faced with the overwhelming evidence that
it came from pagan sources (even the fall of man comes from sumerian
mythology; for that matter, all of Genesis 1-6 comes from sumerian and
babyloniam mythology)? I would like Christians and atheists to
respond.
Even a casual reading of the Sumerian text compared th the Hebrew
scriptures
is like comparing first grade fantasys to high school composition. Did
you
even read through some
of those stories. The difference is even if some of the texts are older
it
matters little. God gave to Moses the truth concerning and conveyed it
like
history What the Sumerian and others is handed down by word of mouth and
finally turns to myth. Read the flood story as an example and tell me
which
is more credible.
There goes another Irony-O-Meter.
Dude, everything in the bible is word of mouth. Nothing was written down,
apparently, at the time it was supposed to have happened, but more like 50
to 100 years later. Did you really not know that?
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
Waht all this really comes down to is does the Christian theistic God exist.
If he does and their is good evidence then miracles are possibler. If he
conveyed thru men his truth then it is not second hand.
Jesus offered 4 lines of evidence as to his deity.
1. Fulfilled prophecy that even to the skeptical reader is beyond natural
since all the old testament was completed before he was born. Where he was
to be born, when, how, and dozens of other very clear prophecies. Not like
Notradamas, laugh, laugh.
And of course, there's no evidence any of the above really is true.
2. Supernatural miracles unlike any before and witnessed by thousands.
So the writers claimed a long time later.
3. A sinless life , he even ask his accusers if any convicted him of sin.
So the writers claim. Kind of like the kooks who claim George Washington
was 6'4" tall. Ever seen his clothes?? I have. Not even close.
4. His claimed and accomplished his own ressurection. He siad he freely
layed his life down and that he had the power to raise it up again.\
So the WRITERS CLAIM. Doesn't make it true. No proof.
As such Jesus is God in the flesh. God can not be wrong about what he
knows. Therefore what is written in the scriptures is true. He claimed the
old testament was truth and he promised to bring to remembrance for
posterity to the apostles what they had witnesses and heard.
Wow, irony meter destroying nonsense.
BDK
.
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| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Are fundamentalists really that ignorant? |
09 Apr 2004 07:30:39 PM |
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|
On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 08:39:54 -0700, "Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com>,
Message ID: <1070befqf0bpd31@corp.supernews.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:4JmdnSEC_JvhQfLdRVn-sQ@io.com...
(snip)
Dude, everything in the bible is word of mouth. Nothing was written down,
apparently, at the time it was supposed to have happened, but more like 50
to 100 years later. Did you really not know that?
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
Waht all this really comes down to is does the Christian theistic God exist.
It doesn't. End of story, Randy.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
.
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
|
| Title: Re: Are fundamentalists really that ignorant? |
04 Apr 2004 11:29:50 AM |
|
|
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Randy Story:
Waht all this really comes down to is does the Christian theistic God
exist. If he does and their is good evidence then miracles are
possibler. If he conveyed thru men his truth then it is not second hand.
By the same token, if the Christian god existed as defined, then a square
circle would be possible.
Jesus offered 4 lines of evidence as to his deity.
1. Fulfilled prophecy that even to the skeptical reader is beyond
natural since all the old testament was completed before he was born.
Where he was to be born, when, how, and dozens of other very clear
prophecies. Not like Notradamas, laugh, laugh.
It is simple to fulfill a biblical prophesy. Just write another chapter in
which a previous prophesy gets fulfilled. It doesn't even have to be true.
Just lay claim to thousands of witnesses, and you'll satisfy the
multitudes.
Case in point... the Book of Mormon.
2. Supernatural miracles unlike any before and witnessed by thousands.
See what I mean? I prophesied that.
3. A sinless life , he even ask his accusers if any convicted him of
sin.
If he even existed, it could be reasoned that he committed suicide. So
much for sinless. He also called people fools, which according to Matthew
5:22 registers him for a vacation in Hell.
4. His claimed and accomplished his own ressurection. He siad he
freely layed his life down and that he had the power to raise it up
again.\
Just another claim, backed by claimed witnesses, and unverifyable by any
other means than those of a south-sayer.
As such Jesus is God in the flesh.
God can not be wrong about what
he knows. Therefore what is written in the scriptures is true. He claimed
the old testament was truth and he promised to bring to remembrance for
posterity to the apostles what they had witnesses and heard.
As such is Harry Potter in the flesh. J.K. Rowling can not be wrong about
what she knows. Therefore what is written in the Harry Potter books is
true.
Randy, Randy, o South Sayer, say unto me the south. :^)
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
______________
Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day.
Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish.
--Timothy Jones
.
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| User: "The Rev Optional" |
|
| Title: Re: Are fundamentalists really that ignorant? |
04 Apr 2004 11:34:08 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 11:29:50 -0500, (Vic
Sagerquist) wrote:
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Randy Story:
Waht all this really comes down to is does the Christian theistic God
exist. If he does and their is good evidence then miracles are
possibler. If he conveyed thru men his truth then it is not second hand.
By the same token, if the Christian god existed as defined, then a square
circle would be possible.
You been drinking again?
.
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| User: "L.S.L" |
|
| Title: Re: Are fundamentalists really that ignorant? |
04 Apr 2004 11:57:13 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 11:50:48 -0500, (Vic
Sagerquist) wrote:
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach The Rev Optional:
On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 11:29:50 -0500, (Vic
Sagerquist) wrote:
By the same token, if the Christian god existed as defined, then a
square circle would be possible.
You been drinking again?
I wish... I'm on a fat & sugar free, exercise intensive diet. I've lost
12 pounds in three weeks. I miss the beer, but I don't miss the pup tents
I've been using for pants.
So yer a fat ***** then?
.
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
|
| Title: Re: Are fundamentalists really that ignorant? |
04 Apr 2004 12:40:34 PM |
|
|
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach L.S.L:
So yer a fat ***** then?
Do you pray to jesus with that mouth?
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
______________
Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day.
Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish.
--Timothy Jones
.
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| User: "Jez" |
|
| Title: Re: Are fundamentalists really that ignorant? |
04 Apr 2004 01:56:14 PM |
|
|
"Vic Sagerquist" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:94C168D7Fvicman@127.0.0.1...
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach L.S.L:
So yer a fat ***** then?
Do you pray to jesus with that mouth?
Why the ***** would anyone want to pray to a myth ??
--
Jez
"The condition of alienation, of being asleep, of being unconscious,
of being out of one's mind, is the condition of the normal man. Society
highly values its normal man.It educates children to lose themselves
and to become absurd,and thus to be normal. Normal men have killed
perhaps 100,000,000 of their fellow normal men in the last fifty years."
R.D. Laing
.
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| User: "The Rev Optional" |
|
| Title: Re: Are fundamentalists really that ignorant? |
04 Apr 2004 02:57:36 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 19:56:14 +0100, "Jez"
<iced_spear@AwaySPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
"Vic Sagerquist" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:94C168D7Fvicman@127.0.0.1...
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach L.S.L:
So yer a fat ***** then?
Do you pray to jesus with that mouth?
Why the ***** would anyone want to pray to a myth ??
Got you jumping don't we Jizz boy?
.
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| User: "Jez" |
|
| Title: Re: Are fundamentalists really that ignorant? |
05 Apr 2004 10:19:40 AM |
|
|
"The Rev Optional" <optional@optional.com> wrote in message
news:29930006ad3333274a63ba58743d697d@news.teranews.com...
On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 19:56:14 +0100, "Jez"
<iced_spear@AwaySPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
"Vic Sagerquist" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:94C168D7Fvicman@127.0.0.1...
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach L.S.L:
So yer a fat ***** then?
Do you pray to jesus with that mouth?
Why the ***** would anyone want to pray to a myth ??
Got you jumping don't we Jizz boy?
No. Hell, you can't even spell my name right, idiot.
--
Jez
"The condition of alienation, of being asleep, of being unconscious,
of being out of one's mind, is the condition of the normal man. Society
highly values its normal man.It educates children to lose themselves
and to become absurd,and thus to be normal. Normal men have killed
perhaps 100,000,000 of their fellow normal men in the last fifty years."
R.D. Laing
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