| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Pro-Humanist FREELOVER" |
| Date: |
02 May 2007 01:36:50 PM |
| Object: |
Are pleasant immortality promises really all that 'good'? |
- - -
Someone says you'll get 72 virgins along-
side a river of wine -if- you blow yourself
up for Allah, and kill scores of men, women,
children and even babies who either don't
follow Allah or who have some shortcomings
in their following of Allah.
Good?
No.
- - -
Someone says God condemns disbelief,
and tosses disbelievers into oblivion -or-
judges them and tosses them into a lake
of fire for short-term torment prior to ever-
lasting death -or- simply tortures them for-
ever. To avoid that and get the pleasant
immortality that we know you want, believe
God sent his only son to be tortured on a
cross, that only son dying and spending
3 days in hell and rising from the dead.
Good?
No.
- - -
In a previous post, I referenced heaven
as "The Ultimate Seduction", but when
you toss in the religious heaven seduc-
tions with their ally, religious threats, fear
is clearly seen as residing at the core of
the religious heaven/hell routine, fear
of death, fear of torment, fear of oblivion.
Good?
No.
- - -
Religious faith, both "The Ultimate Seduc-
tion" -and- "The Ultimate Threat".
Good?
No.
- - -
God, said by religions to eliminate or tor-
ture all who fail to believe or act in the 'right'
way, forever, no forgiveness or redemption
possible, ever.
Good?
No.
- - -
Certainly, religions, at least in the west,
generally tend to focus on "The Ultimate
Seduction", almost as if they're ashamed
of their "Ultimate Threat". However, many
religions, especially 'fundie' ones, tend
to promote the "Ultimate Threat" aspect
of their ancient myths.
The dominant theme of religions remains
"believe -or- else", and whether they cause
horrors to befall humans in this life, or teach/
believe that oblivion or horrors will befall
humans in an afterlife, their central focus
is on ...
.... US (the 'right' believers) versus ...
.... THEM (disbelievers, doubters, and
those who believe in the 'wrong' way,
or who believe in the 'wrong' religion,
or who believe in the 'wrong' God).
Good?
No.
- - -
¤ - ¤ - ¤ - ¤ - ¤ - ¤ - ¤ - ¤ - ¤ - ¤ - ¤ - ¤
~~~
Pro-Humanist FREELOVER
http://fire.prohosting.com/prohuman
Freethinking Realist Exploring
Expressive Liberty, Openness,
Verity, Enlightenment, & Rationality
~~~
.
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| User: "Tokay Pino Gris" |
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| Title: Re: Are pleasant immortality promises really all that 'good'? |
02 May 2007 02:15:34 PM |
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Pro-Humanist FREELOVER wrote:
- - -
Someone says you'll get 72 virgins along-
side a river of wine -if- you blow yourself
up for Allah, and kill scores of men, women,
children and even babies who either don't
follow Allah or who have some shortcomings
in their following of Allah.
Good?
No.
Those "virgins" (and honestly, who wants a virgin? Inexperienced and all
that....) might actually be raisins. Translation error...
Just imagine...
"here are yours raisins. Have fun!"
Tokay
--
I realized that if what we call human nature can be changed, then
absolutely anything is possible.
From that moment my life changed.
Shirley MacLaine
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| User: "Toby A Inkster" |
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| Title: Re: Are pleasant immortality promises really all that 'good'? |
02 May 2007 04:05:29 PM |
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Tokay Pino Gris wrote:
Those "virgins" (and honestly, who wants a virgin? Inexperienced and all
that....) might actually be raisins. Translation error...
Just imagine...
If you've got them for all eternity, they they've got plenty of time to
learn.
--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
http://tobyinkster.co.uk/
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| User: "Tokay Pino Gris" |
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| Title: Re: Are pleasant immortality promises really all that 'good'? |
03 May 2007 02:00:55 PM |
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Toby A Inkster wrote:
Tokay Pino Gris wrote:
Those "virgins" (and honestly, who wants a virgin? Inexperienced and all
that....) might actually be raisins. Translation error...
Just imagine...
If you've got them for all eternity, they they've got plenty of time to
learn.
Weeell... ;-)
How can a raisin learn to be a virgin?
And IF it is actually "virgins" and not raisins... the only way a virgin
can learn this is certainly not by staying a virgin...
Tokay
--
Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's
already tomorrow in Australia.
Charles Schultz
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Are pleasant immortality promises really all that 'good'? |
06 May 2007 12:22:47 AM |
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On May 4, 5:00 am, Tokay Pino Gris <tokay.gris.b...@gmx.net> wrote:
Toby A Inkster wrote:
Tokay Pino Gris wrote:
Those "virgins" (and honestly, who wants a virgin? Inexperienced and all
that....) might actually be raisins. Translation error...
Just imagine...
If you've got them for all eternity, they they've got plenty of time to
learn.
Weeell... ;-)
How can a raisin learn to be a virgin?
And IF it is actually "virgins" and not raisins... the only way a virgin
can learn this is certainly not by staying a virgin...
Tokay
--
Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's
already tomorrow in Australia.
Charles Schultz
Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's
already tomorrow in Australia
That's why I'm writing from Australia. No matter how hard you try to
win, I'll always be a day ahead of you.
I noticed that one or more of the above posts stated that religions
operate on a "fear" basis. Well, no doubt the "beginning of wisdom is
the fear of God", although that could be better translated as
"respect".
However "fear" exists, as an emotion.
Now why should a haphazard series of chemical reactions develop
"fear"?
Obviously in biological terms it is part of the fight or flight
complex. But since atheists state life developed from nothing more
than chemical reactions, why should the said chemical reactions
demonstrate fear in the face of a threat to their "living" existence.
I mean they're only going back to the base chemicals from which they
were made. Why should that cause "fear"?
I think "fear" was built in by a designer. And I think there is real
reason to "fear" judgement. It's eternal for a start. Eternity....
Now that's a word.
.
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| User: "Pro-Humanist FREELOVER" |
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| Title: Re: Are pleasant immortality promises really all that 'good'? |
06 May 2007 11:51:29 AM |
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wrote ...
[...]
Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's
already tomorrow in Australia
That's why I'm writing from Australia. No matter how hard
you try to win, I'll always be a day ahead of you.
I noticed that one or more of the above posts stated that
religions operate on a "fear" basis. Well, no doubt the
"beginning of wisdom is the fear of God", although that
could be better translated as "respect".
What is God? Why is God defined
in irreconcilable and contradictory
ways by so many? Does God exist
as anything other than fantasy? Is
God real or merely make believe?
Is God an answer or a question?
Why fear something that believers
say is love? Is love to be feared or
desired?
However "fear" exists, as an emotion.
Now why should a haphazard series of chemical reactions
develop "fear"?
Evolution is far removed from haphazard.
See physics.
Obviously in biological terms it is part of the fight or flight
complex. But since atheists state life developed from
nothing more than chemical reactions, why should the
said chemical reactions demonstrate fear in the face of
a threat to their "living" existence.
Chemical reactions, along with all else
in a physical world, over billions of years
led to your being here, in this particular
space-time continuum. Of course, that's
just a tiny piece of the puzzle, a puzzle
which may extend forever in all directions,
back, present, and forward.
Not really surprising, when viewed in that
context, that evolved apes would try to
explain it all with myths, but now, with
science having so much success in
explaining how naturalism operates, be-
lievers, by and large, still struggle to try
to fit their magic beings into a naturalistic
world constrained by physical law.
I mean they're only going back to the base chemicals
from which they were made. Why should that cause
"fear"?
See the following for a much deeper under-
standing of the emotions of fear, hate, love,
and anger than you've demonstrated in your
post:
Hint at how fear is used to promote religion
http://tinyurl.com/2dvk7j
Recent Research : Mind - Brain - Behavior ...
http://tinyurl.com/24rnhj
I think "fear" was built in by a designer.
Why? What aspect of fear is apart from the
physics of natural law and evolution and the
workings of the amygdala and the response
to stimuli?
And I think there is real
reason to "fear" judgement.
Reason is oft-times absent when ancient
myths and religions are invoked.
It's eternal for a start.
No, it's presented as stimuli to get listeners
to perpetuate the ancient myths of religion,
and hopefully, some day, that ancient myth
perpetuation engine will be supplanted by
pro-human scientific endeavors.
Eternity....
Now that's a word.
¤ - ¤ - ¤ - ¤ - ¤ - ¤ - ¤ - ¤ - ¤ - ¤ - ¤ - ¤
~~~
Pro-Humanist FREELOVER
http://fire.prohosting.com/prohuman
Freethinking Realist Exploring
Expressive Liberty, Openness,
Verity, Enlightenment, & Rationality
~~~
"Men fear death as children fear to go in the dark; and
as that natural fear in children is increased by tales, so
is the other."
-Francis Bacon, 'Of Death'
"The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances,
the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine
religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the
fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after
rational knowledge."
-Albert Einstein, address at the Princeton Theological
Seminary, May 19, 1939, published in 'Out of My
Later Years', New York: Philosophical Library, 1950
Intellectual growth should commence at birth
and cease only at death.
-Albert Einstein
Imagine there's no heaven, It's easy if you try,
No hell below us, Above us only sky, Imagine
all the people living for today... You may say
I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one, I hope
some day you'll join us, And the world will live
as one.
-John Lennon
- - -
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| User: "Don Martin" |
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| Title: Re: Are pleasant immortality promises really all that 'good'? |
06 May 2007 07:29:11 AM |
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On 5 May 2007 22:22:47 -0700, wrote:
I think "fear" was built in by a designer.
Or it could be the simple outcome of those creatures able to perceive
a threat and scuttling beneath flat rocks until that threat went away
being able to produce more offspring than those creatures that lacked
that perception.
Through a jaundiced eye darkly--rheum with a view.
The Squeeky Wheel
http://home.comcast.net/~drdonmartin/
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