"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1166487858.053681.246150@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Uncle Clover wrote:

I'm wondering what the basic, fundamental drive is that makes so many of
us not
want to die. I mean I know it has to be that way or we probably wouldnt'
be
here - our ancestors having no aversion to death and all. But I'm
wondering
what motivators were evolved to ensure this drive is solid and saturated
through
enough of the population to do any good.

I think I've got it - one of the primary reasons most of us wish to avoid
death
is because we're just too damned nosey to not want to know what's going
to
happen next.

Waddaya' think? Am I close? :-?

I doubt it's psychological so much as genetic. A desire to not die is
likely to keep us alive (and, ideally, reproducing) longer than we
would otherwise live.

I think he's asking what the rationalization is. He agrees it's an instinct,
but we usually rationalize our instincts.

I know that "I want to see what happens next" is a big and successful
rationalization for me. I've expressed my desire for immoratlity many times
in exactly those words.

My fear of death manifests as a dissapointment about all the things I'll
miss out on once I'm dead. I want to know what happens to the human race,
how far we get.

On 18 Dec 2006 16:24:18 -0800, "Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote:

Uncle Clover wrote:

I'm wondering what the basic, fundamental drive is that makes so many of us not
want to die. I mean I know it has to be that way or we probably wouldnt' be
here - our ancestors having no aversion to death and all. But I'm wondering
what motivators were evolved to ensure this drive is solid and saturated through
enough of the population to do any good.

I think I've got it - one of the primary reasons most of us wish to avoid death
is because we're just too damned nosey to not want to know what's going to
happen next.

Waddaya' think? Am I close? :-?

I doubt it's psychological so much as genetic. A desire to not die is
likely to keep us alive (and, ideally, reproducing) longer than we
would otherwise live.

I know that, and I'm not trying to say that it's anything other. For most every
single one of our evolved behavioral traits, there is an emotion or some other
psychological facet to them.

On 18 Dec 2006 16:24:18 -0800, "Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com>
wrote:

Uncle Clover wrote:

I'm wondering what the basic, fundamental drive is that makes so many
of us not want to die. I mean I know it has to be that way or we
probably wouldnt' be here - our ancestors having no aversion to death
and all. But I'm wondering what motivators were evolved to ensure
this drive is solid and saturated through enough of the population to
do any good.

I think I've got it - one of the primary reasons most of us wish to
avoid death is because we're just too damned nosey to not want to
know what's going to happen next.

Waddaya' think? Am I close? :-?

I doubt it's psychological so much as genetic. A desire to not die is
likely to keep us alive (and, ideally, reproducing) longer than we
would otherwise live.

I know that, and I'm not trying to say that it's anything other. For
most every single one of our evolved behavioral traits, there is an
emotion or some other psychological facet to them. We don't think about
wanting to stay alive so our genes can carry on, just like we don't
usually view sex as just a way to make kids. We like sex because it's
pleasurable, it's pleasurable because it was evolutionarily advantageous
for our ancestors to enjoy doing it. The evolutionary function of a
behavioral or other trait is an entirely separate matter from the inner
experience which motivates it. Dogs don't appear to lick their *****
because they're concerned so much about being sanitary or anything -
they have virtually no concept of that. They appear to do it because
it's an enjoyable sensation and - perhaps - an appealing flavor as well.

So I know what the evolutionary reasons are for us to be naturally
death-avoiding. But what are the urges and emotions we experience which
motivate us to exhibit that trait? In some cases, particularly with
violent deaths, we don't wish to avoid them because it's death nearly so
much as because we have an aversion to pain. Most other animals tend to
be afraid of situations which lead to death, but while some of the
larger ones appear to have an awareness of it, most animals aren't
really conscious of death and that they, too, will someday die. They
avoid situations that lead to death not because they're thinking about
avoiding death, but because they've evolved to be naturally driven to
avoid such situations. So when a mouse runs away from a cat, it's not
thinking about the evolutionary reasons as to why it should avoid the
cat. All it knows is that there's something chasing it and every fiber
of its being it telling it to run.

We're not like most animals in that we are aware that we will die, and
often we even have some idea as to when that is most likely to occur.
For animals that have instinct rather than reason, evolution has used
their instincts to develop ways to keep them alive longer. For us, we
have reason, and so evolution will have used that to develop ways to
make -us- live longer, too. So what are the facets of reason evolution
has used? As far as I can see, it's "nosiness".

On 18 Dec 2006 16:24:18 -0800, "Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote:

Uncle Clover wrote:

I'm wondering what the basic, fundamental drive is that makes so many of us not
want to die. I mean I know it has to be that way or we probably wouldnt' be
here - our ancestors having no aversion to death and all. But I'm wondering
what motivators were evolved to ensure this drive is solid and saturated through
enough of the population to do any good.

I think I've got it - one of the primary reasons most of us wish to avoid death
is because we're just too damned nosey to not want to know what's going to
happen next.

Waddaya' think? Am I close? :-?

I doubt it's psychological so much as genetic. A desire to not die is
likely to keep us alive (and, ideally, reproducing) longer than we
would otherwise live.

I know that, and I'm not trying to say that it's anything other. For most every
single one of our evolved behavioral traits, there is an emotion or some other
psychological facet to them. We don't think about wanting to stay alive so our
genes can carry on, just like we don't usually view sex as just a way to make
kids. We like sex because it's pleasurable, it's pleasurable because it was
evolutionarily advantageous for our ancestors to enjoy doing it. The
evolutionary function of a behavioral or other trait is an entirely separate
matter from the inner experience which motivates it. Dogs don't appear to lick
their ***** because they're concerned so much about being sanitary or anything -
they have virtually no concept of that. They appear to do it because it's an
enjoyable sensation and - perhaps - an appealing flavor as well.

So I know what the evolutionary reasons are for us to be naturally
death-avoiding. But what are the urges and emotions we experience which
motivate us to exhibit that trait? In some cases, particularly with violent
deaths, we don't wish to avoid them because it's death nearly so much as because
we have an aversion to pain. Most other animals tend to be afraid of situations
which lead to death, but while some of the larger ones appear to have an
awareness of it, most animals aren't really conscious of death and that they,
too, will someday die. They avoid situations that lead to death not because
they're thinking about avoiding death, but because they've evolved to be
naturally driven to avoid such situations. So when a mouse runs away from a
cat, it's not thinking about the evolutionary reasons as to why it should avoid
the cat. All it knows is that there's something chasing it and every fiber of
its being it telling it to run.

We're not like most animals in that we are aware that we will die, and often we
even have some idea as to when that is most likely to occur. For animals that
have instinct rather than reason, evolution has used their instincts to develop
ways to keep them alive longer. For us, we have reason, and so evolution will
have used that to develop ways to make -us- live longer, too. So what are the
facets of reason evolution has used? As far as I can see, it's "nosiness".

On 18 Dec 2006 16:03:38 -0800, "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote:

Uncle Clover wrote:

I'm wondering what the basic, fundamental drive is that makes so many of us not
want to die. I mean I know it has to be that way or we probably wouldnt' be
here - our ancestors having no aversion to death and all. But I'm wondering
what motivators were evolved to ensure this drive is solid and saturated through
enough of the population to do any good.

I think I've got it - one of the primary reasons most of us wish to avoid death
is because we're just too damned nosey to not want to know what's going to
happen next.

Waddaya' think? Am I close? :-?

Isn't "nosey" kind of a negative way of saying "curious?"

I don't think so, but then it may be to certain regions. It's pretty much the
same word, about the only distinction I can think of is that "curious" usually
applies to what's happening to the world in general (as in generalized or
inanimate things), "nosey" applies to what's happening to other -people- in
general. I think less of us are concerned with missing the fates of our
television sets or our shoes than we are with missing out on the futures of our
friends and loved ones, so that's why I chose that word. :-)