| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Hatter" |
| Date: |
31 Jan 2008 03:27:34 PM |
| Object: |
Arguments From Antiquity, Arguments From Ignorance |
People make crap up. Tall tales, legends, drunken hallucinations,
exaggerations, deliberate lies to defraud, deliberate lies to make
ones seem "cooler" We've all witnessed this behavior in human beings
even if you are a 10 year old from a town like Mayberry.
So we can agree people make crap up.
Knowing this, shouldn't people at least look at this book, this bible,
with a little bit of suspicion?
Not pure dismissal, but suspicion. Some awfully strange stuff happen
in it. Magical wonder beyond that known as possible in day to day
life. Not just improbable, but downright impossible stuff like talking
animals and people coming back from the dead and healing the blind.
So if we have the suspicion of it being made up, what would we expect
to find? Similar sounding stories: plenty of vrgin birth god men and
loki being the thirteenth guest at a dinner party ending up with the
favorite getting murdered. So there ARE so similar sounding stories.
The other thing we would expect to find is no cooberation. No source
other than the teller of such fantastical occurances as a mad tyrant
killing every firstborn, or hundred of people rising from the graves.
Well? I don't see cooberation.
So, given the fact people makes ***** up, and that there is no
independent verification of this fantastical tales, should you really
think that it is an unfallible guide to life? Eh?
Hatter
.
|
|
| User: "Smiler" |
|
| Title: Re: Arguments From Antiquity, Arguments From Ignorance |
31 Jan 2008 10:08:37 PM |
|
|
"Hatter" <Hatter23@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:21fa09a8-692a-4749-92ca-300040a136e5@j78g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
People make crap up. Tall tales, legends, drunken hallucinations,
exaggerations, deliberate lies to defraud, deliberate lies to make
ones seem "cooler" We've all witnessed this behavior in human beings
even if you are a 10 year old from a town like Mayberry.
So we can agree people make crap up.
Knowing this, shouldn't people at least look at this book, this bible,
with a little bit of suspicion?
Not pure dismissal, but suspicion. Some awfully strange stuff happen
in it. Magical wonder beyond that known as possible in day to day
life. Not just improbable, but downright impossible stuff like talking
animals and people coming back from the dead and healing the blind.
So if we have the suspicion of it being made up, what would we expect
to find? Similar sounding stories: plenty of vrgin birth god men and
loki being the thirteenth guest at a dinner party ending up with the
favorite getting murdered. So there ARE so similar sounding stories.
The other thing we would expect to find is no cooberation. No source
other than the teller of such fantastical occurances as a mad tyrant
killing every firstborn, or hundred of people rising from the graves.
Well? I don't see cooberation.
So, given the fact people makes ***** up, and that there is no
independent verification of this fantastical tales, should you really
think that it is an unfallible guide to life? Eh?
I mostly agree but have to argue about the blind seeing again.
There was a case reported here (UK) about 5 years ago about a blind man that
tripped over his guide dog and fell over, banging his head.
IIRC he fell down stairs. When he recovered, he found he had regained some
of his sight (not 100%, but enough to distinguish people's faces). The fact
that he was totally blind before and that he recovered much of his sight
after were medically documented. No gods or miracles involved, but blind
people *can* recover their sight, so that 'miracle' is not quite as far
fetched as the others you mentioned.
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
.
|
|
|
| User: "Apostate" |
|
| Title: Re: Arguments From Antiquity, Arguments From Ignorance |
01 Feb 2008 12:19:24 AM |
|
|
In article <9Xwoj.2609$QD1.240@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net>, Smiler says...
"Hatter" <Hatter23@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:21fa09a8-692a-4749-92ca-300040a136e5@j78g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
People make crap up. Tall tales, legends, drunken hallucinations,
exaggerations, deliberate lies to defraud, deliberate lies to make
ones seem "cooler" We've all witnessed this behavior in human beings
even if you are a 10 year old from a town like Mayberry.
So we can agree people make crap up.
Knowing this, shouldn't people at least look at this book, this bible,
with a little bit of suspicion?
Not pure dismissal, but suspicion. Some awfully strange stuff happen
in it. Magical wonder beyond that known as possible in day to day
life. Not just improbable, but downright impossible stuff like talking
animals and people coming back from the dead and healing the blind.
So if we have the suspicion of it being made up, what would we expect
to find? Similar sounding stories: plenty of vrgin birth god men and
loki being the thirteenth guest at a dinner party ending up with the
favorite getting murdered. So there ARE so similar sounding stories.
The other thing we would expect to find is no cooberation. No source
other than the teller of such fantastical occurances as a mad tyrant
killing every firstborn, or hundred of people rising from the graves.
Well? I don't see cooberation.
So, given the fact people makes ***** up, and that there is no
independent verification of this fantastical tales, should you really
think that it is an unfallible guide to life? Eh?
I mostly agree but have to argue about the blind seeing again.
There was a case reported here (UK) about 5 years ago about a blind man that
tripped over his guide dog and fell over, banging his head.
IIRC he fell down stairs. When he recovered, he found he had regained some
of his sight (not 100%, but enough to distinguish people's faces). The fact
that he was totally blind before and that he recovered much of his sight
after were medically documented. No gods or miracles involved, but blind
people *can* recover their sight, so that 'miracle' is not quite as far
fetched as the others you mentioned.
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
I'll go you one better than that. Lazarus rising from the dead need not have been
other than natural, provided you'll stipulate it was 'natural' for the credulous
first teller of the tale to think Laz dead, when he was merely -- ok, I want to
say pining for the fiords, but he might have been comatose, or even just postictal,
and fooled an untrained observer.
Always assuming the whole account wasn't mere yarn, as I suppose.
--
Apostate a.a. #1931
..sig currently undergoing maintenance
mail to X-reply-to
want a free or premium posting account with Teranews?
https://secure.usenetbilling.com/newbilling/manageaccount.cgi?referredby=1089312943
&action=Create+New+Account&vendor=teranews
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Smiler" |
|
| Title: Re: Arguments From Antiquity, Arguments From Ignorance |
01 Feb 2008 07:22:14 PM |
|
|
"Apostate" <godless.*****@yeehaw.org.invalid> wrote in message
news:MPG.220c83f5d8c7501543@Hamster...
In article <9Xwoj.2609$QD1.240@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net>, Smiler says...
"Hatter" <Hatter23@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:21fa09a8-692a-4749-92ca-300040a136e5@j78g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
People make crap up. Tall tales, legends, drunken hallucinations,
exaggerations, deliberate lies to defraud, deliberate lies to make
ones seem "cooler" We've all witnessed this behavior in human beings
even if you are a 10 year old from a town like Mayberry.
So we can agree people make crap up.
Knowing this, shouldn't people at least look at this book, this bible,
with a little bit of suspicion?
Not pure dismissal, but suspicion. Some awfully strange stuff happen
in it. Magical wonder beyond that known as possible in day to day
life. Not just improbable, but downright impossible stuff like talking
animals and people coming back from the dead and healing the blind.
So if we have the suspicion of it being made up, what would we expect
to find? Similar sounding stories: plenty of vrgin birth god men and
loki being the thirteenth guest at a dinner party ending up with the
favorite getting murdered. So there ARE so similar sounding stories.
The other thing we would expect to find is no cooberation. No source
other than the teller of such fantastical occurances as a mad tyrant
killing every firstborn, or hundred of people rising from the graves.
Well? I don't see cooberation.
So, given the fact people makes ***** up, and that there is no
independent verification of this fantastical tales, should you really
think that it is an unfallible guide to life? Eh?
I mostly agree but have to argue about the blind seeing again.
There was a case reported here (UK) about 5 years ago about a blind man
that
tripped over his guide dog and fell over, banging his head.
IIRC he fell down stairs. When he recovered, he found he had regained
some
of his sight (not 100%, but enough to distinguish people's faces). The
fact
that he was totally blind before and that he recovered much of his sight
after were medically documented. No gods or miracles involved, but blind
people *can* recover their sight, so that 'miracle' is not quite as far
fetched as the others you mentioned.
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
I'll go you one better than that. Lazarus rising from the dead need not
have been
other than natural, provided you'll stipulate it was 'natural' for the
credulous
first teller of the tale to think Laz dead, when he was merely -- ok, I
want to
say pining for the fiords, but he might have been comatose, or even just
postictal,
and fooled an untrained observer.
Always assuming the whole account wasn't mere yarn, as I suppose.
The whole story is a pack of lies.
However, to say a blind person suddenly regained their sight is certainly
not impossible, as Hatter originally described it.
If Lazarus wasn't dead...he wasn't dead! He, therefore, couldn't have risen
_from_ the dead.
He hadn't shuffled off this mortal coil! He was just resting.
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
.
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Arguments From Antiquity, Arguments From Ignorance |
01 Feb 2008 08:47:07 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 01:22:14 GMT, "Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com>
wrote:
"Apostate" <godless.*****@yeehaw.org.invalid> wrote in message
news:MPG.220c83f5d8c7501543@Hamster...
In article <9Xwoj.2609$QD1.240@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net>, Smiler says...
"Hatter" <Hatter23@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:21fa09a8-692a-4749-92ca-300040a136e5@j78g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
People make crap up. Tall tales, legends, drunken hallucinations,
exaggerations, deliberate lies to defraud, deliberate lies to make
ones seem "cooler" We've all witnessed this behavior in human beings
even if you are a 10 year old from a town like Mayberry.
So we can agree people make crap up.
Knowing this, shouldn't people at least look at this book, this bible,
with a little bit of suspicion?
Not pure dismissal, but suspicion. Some awfully strange stuff happen
in it. Magical wonder beyond that known as possible in day to day
life. Not just improbable, but downright impossible stuff like talking
animals and people coming back from the dead and healing the blind.
So if we have the suspicion of it being made up, what would we expect
to find? Similar sounding stories: plenty of vrgin birth god men and
loki being the thirteenth guest at a dinner party ending up with the
favorite getting murdered. So there ARE so similar sounding stories.
The other thing we would expect to find is no cooberation. No source
other than the teller of such fantastical occurances as a mad tyrant
killing every firstborn, or hundred of people rising from the graves.
Well? I don't see cooberation.
So, given the fact people makes ***** up, and that there is no
independent verification of this fantastical tales, should you really
think that it is an unfallible guide to life? Eh?
I mostly agree but have to argue about the blind seeing again.
There was a case reported here (UK) about 5 years ago about a blind man
that
tripped over his guide dog and fell over, banging his head.
IIRC he fell down stairs. When he recovered, he found he had regained
some
of his sight (not 100%, but enough to distinguish people's faces). The
fact
that he was totally blind before and that he recovered much of his sight
after were medically documented. No gods or miracles involved, but blind
people *can* recover their sight, so that 'miracle' is not quite as far
fetched as the others you mentioned.
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
I'll go you one better than that. Lazarus rising from the dead need not
have been
other than natural, provided you'll stipulate it was 'natural' for the
credulous
first teller of the tale to think Laz dead, when he was merely -- ok, I
want to
say pining for the fiords, but he might have been comatose, or even just
postictal,
and fooled an untrained observer.
Always assuming the whole account wasn't mere yarn, as I suppose.
The whole story is a pack of lies.
However, to say a blind person suddenly regained their sight is certainly
not impossible, as Hatter originally described it.
If Lazarus wasn't dead...he wasn't dead! He, therefore, couldn't have risen
_from_ the dead.
He hadn't shuffled off this mortal coil! He was just resting.
'E was pinin' for the sea of Galillee.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Smiler" |
|
| Title: Re: Arguments From Antiquity, Arguments From Ignorance |
02 Feb 2008 07:38:55 PM |
|
|
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:6cm7q3t4kce1eq2jp6438d4tdu7ibcjoig@4ax.com...
On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 01:22:14 GMT, "Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com>
wrote:
"Apostate" <godless.*****@yeehaw.org.invalid> wrote in message
news:MPG.220c83f5d8c7501543@Hamster...
In article <9Xwoj.2609$QD1.240@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net>, Smiler says...
"Hatter" <Hatter23@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:21fa09a8-692a-4749-92ca-300040a136e5@j78g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
People make crap up. Tall tales, legends, drunken hallucinations,
exaggerations, deliberate lies to defraud, deliberate lies to make
ones seem "cooler" We've all witnessed this behavior in human beings
even if you are a 10 year old from a town like Mayberry.
So we can agree people make crap up.
Knowing this, shouldn't people at least look at this book, this
bible,
with a little bit of suspicion?
Not pure dismissal, but suspicion. Some awfully strange stuff happen
in it. Magical wonder beyond that known as possible in day to day
life. Not just improbable, but downright impossible stuff like
talking
animals and people coming back from the dead and healing the blind.
So if we have the suspicion of it being made up, what would we expect
to find? Similar sounding stories: plenty of vrgin birth god men and
loki being the thirteenth guest at a dinner party ending up with the
favorite getting murdered. So there ARE so similar sounding stories.
The other thing we would expect to find is no cooberation. No source
other than the teller of such fantastical occurances as a mad tyrant
killing every firstborn, or hundred of people rising from the graves.
Well? I don't see cooberation.
So, given the fact people makes ***** up, and that there is no
independent verification of this fantastical tales, should you really
think that it is an unfallible guide to life? Eh?
I mostly agree but have to argue about the blind seeing again.
There was a case reported here (UK) about 5 years ago about a blind man
that
tripped over his guide dog and fell over, banging his head.
IIRC he fell down stairs. When he recovered, he found he had regained
some
of his sight (not 100%, but enough to distinguish people's faces). The
fact
that he was totally blind before and that he recovered much of his
sight
after were medically documented. No gods or miracles involved, but
blind
people *can* recover their sight, so that 'miracle' is not quite as far
fetched as the others you mentioned.
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
I'll go you one better than that. Lazarus rising from the dead need not
have been
other than natural, provided you'll stipulate it was 'natural' for the
credulous
first teller of the tale to think Laz dead, when he was merely -- ok,
I
want to
say pining for the fiords, but he might have been comatose, or even just
postictal,
and fooled an untrained observer.
Always assuming the whole account wasn't mere yarn, as I suppose.
The whole story is a pack of lies.
However, to say a blind person suddenly regained their sight is certainly
not impossible, as Hatter originally described it.
If Lazarus wasn't dead...he wasn't dead! He, therefore, couldn't have
risen
_from_ the dead.
He hadn't shuffled off this mortal coil! He was just resting.
'E was pinin' for the sea of Galillee.
Lazarus was a Galillean Blue?
A Tourettes sufferer??
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
.
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Arguments From Antiquity, Arguments From Ignorance |
02 Feb 2008 07:41:14 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 01:38:55 GMT, "Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com>
wrote:
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:6cm7q3t4kce1eq2jp6438d4tdu7ibcjoig@4ax.com...
On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 01:22:14 GMT, "Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com>
wrote:
"Apostate" <godless.*****@yeehaw.org.invalid> wrote in message
news:MPG.220c83f5d8c7501543@Hamster...
In article <9Xwoj.2609$QD1.240@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net>, Smiler says...
"Hatter" <Hatter23@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:21fa09a8-692a-4749-92ca-300040a136e5@j78g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
People make crap up. Tall tales, legends, drunken hallucinations,
exaggerations, deliberate lies to defraud, deliberate lies to make
ones seem "cooler" We've all witnessed this behavior in human beings
even if you are a 10 year old from a town like Mayberry.
So we can agree people make crap up.
Knowing this, shouldn't people at least look at this book, this
bible,
with a little bit of suspicion?
Not pure dismissal, but suspicion. Some awfully strange stuff happen
in it. Magical wonder beyond that known as possible in day to day
life. Not just improbable, but downright impossible stuff like
talking
animals and people coming back from the dead and healing the blind.
So if we have the suspicion of it being made up, what would we expect
to find? Similar sounding stories: plenty of vrgin birth god men and
loki being the thirteenth guest at a dinner party ending up with the
favorite getting murdered. So there ARE so similar sounding stories.
The other thing we would expect to find is no cooberation. No source
other than the teller of such fantastical occurances as a mad tyrant
killing every firstborn, or hundred of people rising from the graves.
Well? I don't see cooberation.
So, given the fact people makes ***** up, and that there is no
independent verification of this fantastical tales, should you really
think that it is an unfallible guide to life? Eh?
I mostly agree but have to argue about the blind seeing again.
There was a case reported here (UK) about 5 years ago about a blind man
that
tripped over his guide dog and fell over, banging his head.
IIRC he fell down stairs. When he recovered, he found he had regained
some
of his sight (not 100%, but enough to distinguish people's faces). The
fact
that he was totally blind before and that he recovered much of his
sight
after were medically documented. No gods or miracles involved, but
blind
people *can* recover their sight, so that 'miracle' is not quite as far
fetched as the others you mentioned.
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
I'll go you one better than that. Lazarus rising from the dead need not
have been
other than natural, provided you'll stipulate it was 'natural' for the
credulous
first teller of the tale to think Laz dead, when he was merely -- ok,
I
want to
say pining for the fiords, but he might have been comatose, or even just
postictal,
and fooled an untrained observer.
Always assuming the whole account wasn't mere yarn, as I suppose.
The whole story is a pack of lies.
However, to say a blind person suddenly regained their sight is certainly
not impossible, as Hatter originally described it.
If Lazarus wasn't dead...he wasn't dead! He, therefore, couldn't have
risen
_from_ the dead.
He hadn't shuffled off this mortal coil! He was just resting.
'E was pinin' for the sea of Galillee.
Lazarus was a Galillean Blue?
A Tourettes sufferer??
He won a "Blue" at Oxford for the annual walking on water event.
I swear.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Smiler" |
|
| Title: Re: Arguments From Antiquity, Arguments From Ignorance |
03 Feb 2008 08:14:43 PM |
|
|
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:is6aq3dmucmtu081v7bp0vh0q8nglk1m0s@4ax.com...
On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 01:38:55 GMT, "Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com>
wrote:
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:6cm7q3t4kce1eq2jp6438d4tdu7ibcjoig@4ax.com...
On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 01:22:14 GMT, "Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com>
wrote:
"Apostate" <godless.*****@yeehaw.org.invalid> wrote in message
news:MPG.220c83f5d8c7501543@Hamster...
In article <9Xwoj.2609$QD1.240@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net>, Smiler says...
"Hatter" <Hatter23@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:21fa09a8-692a-4749-92ca-300040a136e5@j78g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
People make crap up. Tall tales, legends, drunken hallucinations,
exaggerations, deliberate lies to defraud, deliberate lies to make
ones seem "cooler" We've all witnessed this behavior in human
beings
even if you are a 10 year old from a town like Mayberry.
So we can agree people make crap up.
Knowing this, shouldn't people at least look at this book, this
bible,
with a little bit of suspicion?
Not pure dismissal, but suspicion. Some awfully strange stuff
happen
in it. Magical wonder beyond that known as possible in day to day
life. Not just improbable, but downright impossible stuff like
talking
animals and people coming back from the dead and healing the blind.
So if we have the suspicion of it being made up, what would we
expect
to find? Similar sounding stories: plenty of vrgin birth god men
and
loki being the thirteenth guest at a dinner party ending up with
the
favorite getting murdered. So there ARE so similar sounding
stories.
The other thing we would expect to find is no cooberation. No
source
other than the teller of such fantastical occurances as a mad
tyrant
killing every firstborn, or hundred of people rising from the
graves.
Well? I don't see cooberation.
So, given the fact people makes ***** up, and that there is no
independent verification of this fantastical tales, should you
really
think that it is an unfallible guide to life? Eh?
I mostly agree but have to argue about the blind seeing again.
There was a case reported here (UK) about 5 years ago about a blind
man
that
tripped over his guide dog and fell over, banging his head.
IIRC he fell down stairs. When he recovered, he found he had regained
some
of his sight (not 100%, but enough to distinguish people's faces).
The
fact
that he was totally blind before and that he recovered much of his
sight
after were medically documented. No gods or miracles involved, but
blind
people *can* recover their sight, so that 'miracle' is not quite as
far
fetched as the others you mentioned.
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
I'll go you one better than that. Lazarus rising from the dead need
not
have been
other than natural, provided you'll stipulate it was 'natural' for the
credulous
first teller of the tale to think Laz dead, when he was merely --
ok,
I
want to
say pining for the fiords, but he might have been comatose, or even
just
postictal,
and fooled an untrained observer.
Always assuming the whole account wasn't mere yarn, as I suppose.
The whole story is a pack of lies.
However, to say a blind person suddenly regained their sight is
certainly
not impossible, as Hatter originally described it.
If Lazarus wasn't dead...he wasn't dead! He, therefore, couldn't have
risen
_from_ the dead.
He hadn't shuffled off this mortal coil! He was just resting.
'E was pinin' for the sea of Galillee.
Lazarus was a Galillean Blue?
A Tourettes sufferer??
He won a "Blue" at Oxford for the annual walking on water event.
I swear.
I wonder why that event has died out?
Could it be that the competitors (believers) are denser than water (and much
else).
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
.
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Arguments From Antiquity, Arguments From Ignorance |
03 Feb 2008 10:20:08 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 04 Feb 2008 02:14:43 GMT, "Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com>
wrote:
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:is6aq3dmucmtu081v7bp0vh0q8nglk1m0s@4ax.com...
On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 01:38:55 GMT, "Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com>
wrote:
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:6cm7q3t4kce1eq2jp6438d4tdu7ibcjoig@4ax.com...
On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 01:22:14 GMT, "Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com>
wrote:
"Apostate" <godless.*****@yeehaw.org.invalid> wrote in message
news:MPG.220c83f5d8c7501543@Hamster...
In article <9Xwoj.2609$QD1.240@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net>, Smiler says...
"Hatter" <Hatter23@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:21fa09a8-692a-4749-92ca-300040a136e5@j78g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
People make crap up. Tall tales, legends, drunken hallucinations,
exaggerations, deliberate lies to defraud, deliberate lies to make
ones seem "cooler" We've all witnessed this behavior in human
beings
even if you are a 10 year old from a town like Mayberry.
So we can agree people make crap up.
Knowing this, shouldn't people at least look at this book, this
bible,
with a little bit of suspicion?
Not pure dismissal, but suspicion. Some awfully strange stuff
happen
in it. Magical wonder beyond that known as possible in day to day
life. Not just improbable, but downright impossible stuff like
talking
animals and people coming back from the dead and healing the blind.
So if we have the suspicion of it being made up, what would we
expect
to find? Similar sounding stories: plenty of vrgin birth god men
and
loki being the thirteenth guest at a dinner party ending up with
the
favorite getting murdered. So there ARE so similar sounding
stories.
The other thing we would expect to find is no cooberation. No
source
other than the teller of such fantastical occurances as a mad
tyrant
killing every firstborn, or hundred of people rising from the
graves.
Well? I don't see cooberation.
So, given the fact people makes ***** up, and that there is no
independent verification of this fantastical tales, should you
really
think that it is an unfallible guide to life? Eh?
I mostly agree but have to argue about the blind seeing again.
There was a case reported here (UK) about 5 years ago about a blind
man
that
tripped over his guide dog and fell over, banging his head.
IIRC he fell down stairs. When he recovered, he found he had regained
some
of his sight (not 100%, but enough to distinguish people's faces).
The
fact
that he was totally blind before and that he recovered much of his
sight
after were medically documented. No gods or miracles involved, but
blind
people *can* recover their sight, so that 'miracle' is not quite as
far
fetched as the others you mentioned.
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
I'll go you one better than that. Lazarus rising from the dead need
not
have been
other than natural, provided you'll stipulate it was 'natural' for the
credulous
first teller of the tale to think Laz dead, when he was merely --
ok,
I
want to
say pining for the fiords, but he might have been comatose, or even
just
postictal,
and fooled an untrained observer.
Always assuming the whole account wasn't mere yarn, as I suppose.
The whole story is a pack of lies.
However, to say a blind person suddenly regained their sight is
certainly
not impossible, as Hatter originally described it.
If Lazarus wasn't dead...he wasn't dead! He, therefore, couldn't have
risen
_from_ the dead.
He hadn't shuffled off this mortal coil! He was just resting.
'E was pinin' for the sea of Galillee.
Lazarus was a Galillean Blue?
A Tourettes sufferer??
He won a "Blue" at Oxford for the annual walking on water event.
I swear.
I wonder why that event has died out?
Could it be that the competitors (believers) are denser than water (and much
else).
It got banned under the Anti-Pollution Acts (of the Apostles).
There's enough ***** in the river already.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Smiler" |
|
| Title: Re: Arguments From Antiquity, Arguments From Ignorance |
04 Feb 2008 06:06:57 PM |
|
|
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:4i4dq35emigc8861oedrhbr3oc9r9dhsup@4ax.com...
On Mon, 04 Feb 2008 02:14:43 GMT, "Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com>
wrote:
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:is6aq3dmucmtu081v7bp0vh0q8nglk1m0s@4ax.com...
On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 01:38:55 GMT, "Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com>
wrote:
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:6cm7q3t4kce1eq2jp6438d4tdu7ibcjoig@4ax.com...
On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 01:22:14 GMT, "Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com>
wrote:
"Apostate" <godless.*****@yeehaw.org.invalid> wrote in message
news:MPG.220c83f5d8c7501543@Hamster...
In article <9Xwoj.2609$QD1.240@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net>, Smiler says...
"Hatter" <Hatter23@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:21fa09a8-692a-4749-92ca-300040a136e5@j78g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
People make crap up. Tall tales, legends, drunken hallucinations,
exaggerations, deliberate lies to defraud, deliberate lies to
make
ones seem "cooler" We've all witnessed this behavior in human
beings
even if you are a 10 year old from a town like Mayberry.
So we can agree people make crap up.
Knowing this, shouldn't people at least look at this book, this
bible,
with a little bit of suspicion?
Not pure dismissal, but suspicion. Some awfully strange stuff
happen
in it. Magical wonder beyond that known as possible in day to day
life. Not just improbable, but downright impossible stuff like
talking
animals and people coming back from the dead and healing the
blind.
So if we have the suspicion of it being made up, what would we
expect
to find? Similar sounding stories: plenty of vrgin birth god men
and
loki being the thirteenth guest at a dinner party ending up with
the
favorite getting murdered. So there ARE so similar sounding
stories.
The other thing we would expect to find is no cooberation. No
source
other than the teller of such fantastical occurances as a mad
tyrant
killing every firstborn, or hundred of people rising from the
graves.
Well? I don't see cooberation.
So, given the fact people makes ***** up, and that there is no
independent verification of this fantastical tales, should you
really
think that it is an unfallible guide to life? Eh?
I mostly agree but have to argue about the blind seeing again.
There was a case reported here (UK) about 5 years ago about a blind
man
that
tripped over his guide dog and fell over, banging his head.
IIRC he fell down stairs. When he recovered, he found he had
regained
some
of his sight (not 100%, but enough to distinguish people's faces).
The
fact
that he was totally blind before and that he recovered much of his
sight
after were medically documented. No gods or miracles involved, but
blind
people *can* recover their sight, so that 'miracle' is not quite as
far
fetched as the others you mentioned.
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
I'll go you one better than that. Lazarus rising from the dead need
not
have been
other than natural, provided you'll stipulate it was 'natural' for
the
credulous
first teller of the tale to think Laz dead, when he was merely --
ok,
I
want to
say pining for the fiords, but he might have been comatose, or even
just
postictal,
and fooled an untrained observer.
Always assuming the whole account wasn't mere yarn, as I suppose.
The whole story is a pack of lies.
However, to say a blind person suddenly regained their sight is
certainly
not impossible, as Hatter originally described it.
If Lazarus wasn't dead...he wasn't dead! He, therefore, couldn't have
risen
_from_ the dead.
He hadn't shuffled off this mortal coil! He was just resting.
'E was pinin' for the sea of Galillee.
Lazarus was a Galillean Blue?
A Tourettes sufferer??
He won a "Blue" at Oxford for the annual walking on water event.
I swear.
I wonder why that event has died out?
Could it be that the competitors (believers) are denser than water (and
much
else).
It got banned under the Anti-Pollution Acts (of the Apostles).
There's enough ***** in the river already.
Agreed, but the Thames (Isis) is *much* cleaner than it was 30 years ago.
Today, if you fall in, your far more likely to drown than to be poisoned,
which wasn't always the case.
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
.
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Arguments From Antiquity, Arguments From Ignorance |
05 Feb 2008 02:10:58 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 05 Feb 2008 00:06:57 GMT, "Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com>
wrote:
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:4i4dq35emigc8861oedrhbr3oc9r9dhsup@4ax.com...
On Mon, 04 Feb 2008 02:14:43 GMT, "Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com>
wrote:
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:is6aq3dmucmtu081v7bp0vh0q8nglk1m0s@4ax.com...
On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 01:38:55 GMT, "Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com>
wrote:
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:6cm7q3t4kce1eq2jp6438d4tdu7ibcjoig@4ax.com...
On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 01:22:14 GMT, "Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com>
wrote:
"Apostate" <godless.*****@yeehaw.org.invalid> wrote in message
news:MPG.220c83f5d8c7501543@Hamster...
In article <9Xwoj.2609$QD1.240@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net>, Smiler says...
"Hatter" <Hatter23@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:21fa09a8-692a-4749-92ca-300040a136e5@j78g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
People make crap up. Tall tales, legends, drunken hallucinations,
exaggerations, deliberate lies to defraud, deliberate lies to
make
ones seem "cooler" We've all witnessed this behavior in human
beings
even if you are a 10 year old from a town like Mayberry.
So we can agree people make crap up.
Knowing this, shouldn't people at least look at this book, this
bible,
with a little bit of suspicion?
Not pure dismissal, but suspicion. Some awfully strange stuff
happen
in it. Magical wonder beyond that known as possible in day to day
life. Not just improbable, but downright impossible stuff like
talking
animals and people coming back from the dead and healing the
blind.
So if we have the suspicion of it being made up, what would we
expect
to find? Similar sounding stories: plenty of vrgin birth god men
and
loki being the thirteenth guest at a dinner party ending up with
the
favorite getting murdered. So there ARE so similar sounding
stories.
The other thing we would expect to find is no cooberation. No
source
other than the teller of such fantastical occurances as a mad
tyrant
killing every firstborn, or hundred of people rising from the
graves.
Well? I don't see cooberation.
So, given the fact people makes ***** up, and that there is no
independent verification of this fantastical tales, should you
really
think that it is an unfallible guide to life? Eh?
I mostly agree but have to argue about the blind seeing again.
There was a case reported here (UK) about 5 years ago about a blind
man
that
tripped over his guide dog and fell over, banging his head.
IIRC he fell down stairs. When he recovered, he found he had
regained
some
of his sight (not 100%, but enough to distinguish people's faces).
The
fact
that he was totally blind before and that he recovered much of his
sight
after were medically documented. No gods or miracles involved, but
blind
people *can* recover their sight, so that 'miracle' is not quite as
far
fetched as the others you mentioned.
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
I'll go you one better than that. Lazarus rising from the dead need
not
have been
other than natural, provided you'll stipulate it was 'natural' for
the
credulous
first teller of the tale to think Laz dead, when he was merely --
ok,
I
want to
say pining for the fiords, but he might have been comatose, or even
just
postictal,
and fooled an untrained observer.
Always assuming the whole account wasn't mere yarn, as I suppose.
The whole story is a pack of lies.
However, to say a blind person suddenly regained their sight is
certainly
not impossible, as Hatter originally described it.
If Lazarus wasn't dead...he wasn't dead! He, therefore, couldn't have
risen
_from_ the dead.
He hadn't shuffled off this mortal coil! He was just resting.
'E was pinin' for the sea of Galillee.
Lazarus was a Galillean Blue?
A Tourettes sufferer??
He won a "Blue" at Oxford for the annual walking on water event.
I swear.
I wonder why that event has died out?
Could it be that the competitors (believers) are denser than water (and
much
else).
It got banned under the Anti-Pollution Acts (of the Apostles).
There's enough ***** in the river already.
Agreed, but the Thames (Isis) is *much* cleaner than it was 30 years ago.
Today, if you fall in, your far more likely to drown than to be poisoned,
which wasn't always the case.
Isn't it strange that that segment has a different name?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Smiler" |
|
| Title: Re: Arguments From Antiquity, Arguments From Ignorance |
05 Feb 2008 08:06:45 PM |
|
|
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:jf6gq31ia7h8038rtfvdb408si577237ja@4ax.com...
On Tue, 05 Feb 2008 00:06:57 GMT, "Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com>
wrote:
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:4i4dq35emigc8861oedrhbr3oc9r9dhsup@4ax.com...
On Mon, 04 Feb 2008 02:14:43 GMT, "Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com>
wrote:
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:is6aq3dmucmtu081v7bp0vh0q8nglk1m0s@4ax.com...
On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 01:38:55 GMT, "Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com>
wrote:
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:6cm7q3t4kce1eq2jp6438d4tdu7ibcjoig@4ax.com...
On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 01:22:14 GMT, "Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com>
wrote:
"Apostate" <godless.*****@yeehaw.org.invalid> wrote in message
news:MPG.220c83f5d8c7501543@Hamster...
In article <9Xwoj.2609$QD1.240@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net>, Smiler
says...
"Hatter" <Hatter23@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:21fa09a8-692a-4749-92ca-300040a136e5@j78g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
People make crap up. Tall tales, legends, drunken
hallucinations,
exaggerations, deliberate lies to defraud, deliberate lies to
make
ones seem "cooler" We've all witnessed this behavior in human
beings
even if you are a 10 year old from a town like Mayberry.
So we can agree people make crap up.
Knowing this, shouldn't people at least look at this book, this
bible,
with a little bit of suspicion?
Not pure dismissal, but suspicion. Some awfully strange stuff
happen
in it. Magical wonder beyond that known as possible in day to
day
life. Not just improbable, but downright impossible stuff like
talking
animals and people coming back from the dead and healing the
blind.
So if we have the suspicion of it being made up, what would we
expect
to find? Similar sounding stories: plenty of vrgin birth god
men
and
loki being the thirteenth guest at a dinner party ending up
with
the
favorite getting murdered. So there ARE so similar sounding
stories.
The other thing we would expect to find is no cooberation. No
source
other than the teller of such fantastical occurances as a mad
tyrant
killing every firstborn, or hundred of people rising from the
graves.
Well? I don't see cooberation.
So, given the fact people makes ***** up, and that there is no
independent verification of this fantastical tales, should you
really
think that it is an unfallible guide to life? Eh?
I mostly agree but have to argue about the blind seeing again.
There was a case reported here (UK) about 5 years ago about a
blind
man
that
tripped over his guide dog and fell over, banging his head.
IIRC he fell down stairs. When he recovered, he found he had
regained
some
of his sight (not 100%, but enough to distinguish people's
faces).
The
fact
that he was totally blind before and that he recovered much of
his
sight
after were medically documented. No gods or miracles involved,
but
blind
people *can* recover their sight, so that 'miracle' is not quite
as
far
fetched as the others you mentioned.
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
I'll go you one better than that. Lazarus rising from the dead
need
not
have been
other than natural, provided you'll stipulate it was 'natural' for
the
credulous
first teller of the tale to think Laz dead, when he was merely --
ok,
I
want to
say pining for the fiords, but he might have been comatose, or
even
just
postictal,
and fooled an untrained observer.
Always assuming the whole account wasn't mere yarn, as I suppose.
The whole story is a pack of lies.
However, to say a blind person suddenly regained their sight is
certainly
not impossible, as Hatter originally described it.
If Lazarus wasn't dead...he wasn't dead! He, therefore, couldn't
have
risen
_from_ the dead.
He hadn't shuffled off this mortal coil! He was just resting.
'E was pinin' for the sea of Galillee.
Lazarus was a Galillean Blue?
A Tourettes sufferer??
He won a "Blue" at Oxford for the annual walking on water event.
I swear.
I wonder why that event has died out?
Could it be that the competitors (believers) are denser than water (and
much
else).
It got banned under the Anti-Pollution Acts (of the Apostles).
There's enough ***** in the river already.
Agreed, but the Thames (Isis) is *much* cleaner than it was 30 years ago.
Today, if you fall in, your far more likely to drown than to be poisoned,
which wasn't always the case.
Isn't it strange that that segment has a different name?
Probably named before 'joined up' geography was invented.
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Opus-" |
|
| Title: Re: Arguments From Antiquity, Arguments From Ignorance |
02 Feb 2008 01:06:14 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 13:17:07 +1030, Michael Gray
<mikegray@newsguy.com> spake thusly:
On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 01:22:14 GMT, "Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com>
wrote:
"Apostate" <godless.*****@yeehaw.org.invalid> wrote in message
news:MPG.220c83f5d8c7501543@Hamster...
In article <9Xwoj.2609$QD1.240@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net>, Smiler says...
"Hatter" <Hatter23@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:21fa09a8-692a-4749-92ca-300040a136e5@j78g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
People make crap up. Tall tales, legends, drunken hallucinations,
exaggerations, deliberate lies to defraud, deliberate lies to make
ones seem "cooler" We've all witnessed this behavior in human beings
even if you are a 10 year old from a town like Mayberry.
So we can agree people make crap up.
Knowing this, shouldn't people at least look at this book, this bible,
with a little bit of suspicion?
Not pure dismissal, but suspicion. Some awfully strange stuff happen
in it. Magical wonder beyond that known as possible in day to day
life. Not just improbable, but downright impossible stuff like talking
animals and people coming back from the dead and healing the blind.
So if we have the suspicion of it being made up, what would we expect
to find? Similar sounding stories: plenty of vrgin birth god men and
loki being the thirteenth guest at a dinner party ending up with the
favorite getting murdered. So there ARE so similar sounding stories.
The other thing we would expect to find is no cooberation. No source
other than the teller of such fantastical occurances as a mad tyrant
killing every firstborn, or hundred of people rising from the graves.
Well? I don't see cooberation.
So, given the fact people makes ***** up, and that there is no
independent verification of this fantastical tales, should you really
think that it is an unfallible guide to life? Eh?
I mostly agree but have to argue about the blind seeing again.
There was a case reported here (UK) about 5 years ago about a blind man
that
tripped over his guide dog and fell over, banging his head.
IIRC he fell down stairs. When he recovered, he found he had regained
some
of his sight (not 100%, but enough to distinguish people's faces). The
fact
that he was totally blind before and that he recovered much of his sight
after were medically documented. No gods or miracles involved, but blind
people *can* recover their sight, so that 'miracle' is not quite as far
fetched as the others you mentioned.
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
I'll go you one better than that. Lazarus rising from the dead need not
have been
other than natural, provided you'll stipulate it was 'natural' for the
credulous
first teller of the tale to think Laz dead, when he was merely -- ok, I
want to
say pining for the fiords, but he might have been comatose, or even just
postictal,
and fooled an untrained observer.
Always assuming the whole account wasn't mere yarn, as I suppose.
The whole story is a pack of lies.
However, to say a blind person suddenly regained their sight is certainly
not impossible, as Hatter originally described it.
If Lazarus wasn't dead...he wasn't dead! He, therefore, couldn't have risen
_from_ the dead.
He hadn't shuffled off this mortal coil! He was just resting.
'E was pinin' for the sea of Galillee.
'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This Lazarus is no more! He has
ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff!
Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the
chair 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now
'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off
'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir
invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-LAZARUS!!
--
jbuchy@hotmail.com
(Jim, daddy to Lesleigh [Autistic] 04/20/94)
"With God, all atrocities are acceptable and embraced"
Please note: All unsolicited e-mail sent to me may, at
my discretion, be posted in this newsgroup verbatim.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Arguments From Antiquity, Arguments From Ignorance |
02 Feb 2008 02:52:58 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 07:06:14 GMT, Opus- <jbuchy@shaw.ca> wrote:
On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 13:17:07 +1030, Michael Gray
<mikegray@newsguy.com> spake thusly:
On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 01:22:14 GMT, "Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com>
wrote:
"Apostate" <godless.*****@yeehaw.org.invalid> wrote in message
news:MPG.220c83f5d8c7501543@Hamster...
In article <9Xwoj.2609$QD1.240@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net>, Smiler says...
"Hatter" <Hatter23@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:21fa09a8-692a-4749-92ca-300040a136e5@j78g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
People make crap up. Tall tales, legends, drunken hallucinations,
exaggerations, deliberate lies to defraud, deliberate lies to make
ones seem "cooler" We've all witnessed this behavior in human beings
even if you are a 10 year old from a town like Mayberry.
So we can agree people make crap up.
Knowing this, shouldn't people at least look at this book, this bible,
with a little bit of suspicion?
Not pure dismissal, but suspicion. Some awfully strange stuff happen
in it. Magical wonder beyond that known as possible in day to day
life. Not just improbable, but downright impossible stuff like talking
animals and people coming back from the dead and healing the blind.
So if we have the suspicion of it being made up, what would we expect
to find? Similar sounding stories: plenty of vrgin birth god men and
loki being the thirteenth guest at a dinner party ending up with the
favorite getting murdered. So there ARE so similar sounding stories.
The other thing we would expect to find is no cooberation. No source
other than the teller of such fantastical occurances as a mad tyrant
killing every firstborn, or hundred of people rising from the graves.
Well? I don't see cooberation.
So, given the fact people makes ***** up, and that there is no
independent verification of this fantastical tales, should you really
think that it is an unfallible guide to life? Eh?
I mostly agree but have to argue about the blind seeing again.
There was a case reported here (UK) about 5 years ago about a blind man
that
tripped over his guide dog and fell over, banging his head.
IIRC he fell down stairs. When he recovered, he found he had regained
some
of his sight (not 100%, but enough to distinguish people's faces). The
fact
that he was totally blind before and that he recovered much of his sight
after were medically documented. No gods or miracles involved, but blind
people *can* recover their sight, so that 'miracle' is not quite as far
fetched as the others you mentioned.
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
I'll go you one better than that. Lazarus rising from the dead need not
have been
other than natural, provided you'll stipulate it was 'natural' for the
credulous
first teller of the tale to think Laz dead, when he was merely -- ok, I
want to
say pining for the fiords, but he might have been comatose, or even just
postictal,
and fooled an untrained observer.
Always assuming the whole account wasn't mere yarn, as I suppose.
The whole story is a pack of lies.
However, to say a blind person suddenly regained their sight is certainly
not impossible, as Hatter originally described it.
If Lazarus wasn't dead...he wasn't dead! He, therefore, couldn't have risen
_from_ the dead.
He hadn't shuffled off this mortal coil! He was just resting.
'E was pinin' for the sea of Galillee.
'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This Lazarus is no more! He has
ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff!
Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the
chair 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now
'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off
'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir
invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-LAZARUS!!
Well, I'd better revive him, then.
(Hhe takes a quick peek behind the counter)
Sorry squire, I've had a look 'round the back of the shop, and uh,
we're right out of Lazuri.
Erm. I got a Samaritan...
<shuffles blessed feet>
.
|
|
|
| User: "Smiler" |
|
| Title: Re: Arguments From Antiquity, Arguments From Ignorance |
02 Feb 2008 07:33:13 PM |
|
|
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:lmb8q39gk84ei6k6f3qdesnkt5dgcn1nr5@4ax.com...
On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 07:06:14 GMT, Opus- <jbuchy@shaw.ca> wrote:
On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 13:17:07 +1030, Michael Gray
<mikegray@newsguy.com> spake thusly:
On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 01:22:14 GMT, "Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com>
wrote:
"Apostate" <godless.*****@yeehaw.org.invalid> wrote in message
news:MPG.220c83f5d8c7501543@Hamster...
In article <9Xwoj.2609$QD1.240@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net>, Smiler says...
"Hatter" <Hatter23@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:21fa09a8-692a-4749-92ca-300040a136e5@j78g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
People make crap up. Tall tales, legends, drunken hallucinations,
exaggerations, deliberate lies to defraud, deliberate lies to make
ones seem "cooler" We've all witnessed this behavior in human
beings
even if you are a 10 year old from a town like Mayberry.
So we can agree people make crap up.
Knowing this, shouldn't people at least look at this book, this
bible,
with a little bit of suspicion?
Not pure dismissal, but suspicion. Some awfully strange stuff
happen
in it. Magical wonder beyond that known as possible in day to day
life. Not just improbable, but downright impossible stuff like
talking
animals and people coming back from the dead and healing the blind.
So if we have the suspicion of it being made up, what would we
expect
to find? Similar sounding stories: plenty of vrgin birth god men
and
loki being the thirteenth guest at a dinner party ending up with
the
favorite getting murdered. So there ARE so similar sounding
stories.
The other thing we would expect to find is no cooberation. No
source
other than the teller of such fantastical occurances as a mad
tyrant
killing every firstborn, or hundred of people rising from the
graves.
Well? I don't see cooberation.
So, given the fact people makes ***** up, and that there is no
independent verification of this fantastical tales, should you
really
think that it is an unfallible guide to life? Eh?
I mostly agree but have to argue about the blind seeing again.
There was a case reported here (UK) about 5 years ago about a blind
man
that
tripped over his guide dog and fell over, banging his head.
IIRC he fell down stairs. When he recovered, he found he had regained
some
of his sight (not 100%, but enough to distinguish people's faces).
The
fact
that he was totally blind before and that he recovered much of his
sight
after were medically documented. No gods or miracles involved, but
blind
people *can* recover their sight, so that 'miracle' is not quite as
far
fetched as the others you mentioned.
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
I'll go you one better than that. Lazarus rising from the dead need
not
have been
other than natural, provided you'll stipulate it was 'natural' for the
credulous
first teller of the tale to think Laz dead, when he was merely --
ok, I
want to
say pining for the fiords, but he might have been comatose, or even
just
postictal,
and fooled an untrained observer.
Always assuming the whole account wasn't mere yarn, as I suppose.
The whole story is a pack of lies.
However, to say a blind person suddenly regained their sight is
certainly
not impossible, as Hatter originally described it.
If Lazarus wasn't dead...he wasn't dead! He, therefore, couldn't have
risen
_from_ the dead.
He hadn't shuffled off this mortal coil! He was just resting.
'E was pinin' for the sea of Galillee.
'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This Lazarus is no more! He has
ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff!
Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the
chair 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now
'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off
'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir
invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-LAZARUS!!
Well, I'd better revive him, then.
(Hhe takes a quick peek behind the counter)
Sorry squire, I've had a look 'round the back of the shop, and uh,
we're right out of Lazuri.
Erm. I got a Samaritan...
<shuffles blessed feet>
A Samaritan will be good enough.
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
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| User: "Free Lunch" |
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| Title: Re: Arguments From Antiquity, Arguments From Ignorance |
01 Feb 2008 07:28:06 PM |
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On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 01:22:14 GMT, in alt.atheism
"Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com> wrote in
<aBPoj.301$vj5.43@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>:
"Apostate" <godless.*****@yeehaw.org.invalid> wrote in message
news:MPG.220c83f5d8c7501543@Hamster...
In article <9Xwoj.2609$QD1.240@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net>, Smiler says...
"Hatter" <Hatter23@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:21fa09a8-692a-4749-92ca-300040a136e5@j78g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
People make crap up. Tall tales, legends, drunken hallucinations,
exaggerations, deliberate lies to defraud, deliberate lies to make
ones seem "cooler" We've all witnessed this behavior in human beings
even if you are a 10 year old from a town like Mayberry.
So we can agree people make crap up.
Knowing this, shouldn't people at least look at this book, this bible,
with a little bit of suspicion?
Not pure dismissal, but suspicion. Some awfully strange stuff happen
in it. Magical wonder beyond that known as possible in day to day
life. Not just improbable, but downright impossible stuff like talking
animals and people coming back from the dead and healing the blind.
So if we have the suspicion of it being made up, what would we expect
to find? Similar sounding stories: plenty of vrgin birth god men and
loki being the thirteenth guest at a dinner party ending up with the
favorite getting murdered. So there ARE so similar sounding stories.
The other thing we would expect to find is no cooberation. No source
other than the teller of such fantastical occurances as a mad tyrant
killing every firstborn, or hundred of people rising from the graves.
Well? I don't see cooberation.
So, given the fact people makes ***** up, and that there is no
independent verification of this fantastical tales, should you really
think that it is an unfallible guide to life? Eh?
I mostly agree but have to argue about the blind seeing again.
There was a case reported here (UK) about 5 years ago about a blind man
that
tripped over his guide dog and fell over, banging his head.
IIRC he fell down stairs. When he recovered, he found he had regained
some
of his sight (not 100%, but enough to distinguish people's faces). The
fact
that he was totally blind before and that he recovered much of his sight
after were medically documented. No gods or miracles involved, but blind
people *can* recover their sight, so that 'miracle' is not quite as far
fetched as the others you mentioned.
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
I'll go you one better than that. Lazarus rising from the dead need not
have been
other than natural, provided you'll stipulate it was 'natural' for the
credulous
first teller of the tale to think Laz dead, when he was merely -- ok, I
want to
say pining for the fiords, but he might have been comatose, or even just
postictal,
and fooled an untrained observer.
Always assuming the whole account wasn't mere yarn, as I suppose.
The whole story is a pack of lies.
However, to say a blind person suddenly regained their sight is certainly
not impossible, as Hatter originally described it.
If Lazarus wasn't dead...he wasn't dead! He, therefore, couldn't have risen
_from_ the dead.
He hadn't shuffled off this mortal coil! He was just resting.
"I'm not dead, yet" -- The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't.
"I Aten't Dead" -- Granny Weatherwax.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Arguments From Antiquity, Arguments From Ignorance |
01 Feb 2008 02:00:55 AM |
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On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 01:19:24 -0500, Apostate
<godless.*****@yeehaw.org.invalid> wrote:
In article <9Xwoj.2609$QD1.240@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net>, Smiler says...
"Hatter" <Hatter23@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:21fa09a8-692a-4749-92ca-300040a136e5@j78g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
People make crap up. Tall tales, legends, drunken hallucinations,
exaggerations, deliberate lies to defraud, deliberate lies to make
ones seem "cooler" We've all witnessed this behavior in human beings
even if you are a 10 year old from a town like Mayberry.
So we can agree people make crap up.
Knowing this, shouldn't people at least look at this book, this bible,
with a little bit of suspicion?
Not pure dismissal, but suspicion. Some awfully strange stuff happen
in it. Magical wonder beyond that known as possible in day to day
life. Not just improbable, but downright impossible stuff like talking
animals and people coming back from the dead and healing the blind.
So if we have the suspicion of it being made up, what would we expect
to find? Similar sounding stories: plenty of vrgin birth god men and
loki being the thirteenth guest at a dinner party ending up with the
favorite getting murdered. So there ARE so similar sounding stories.
The other thing we would expect to find is no cooberation. No source
other than the teller of such fantastical occurances as a mad tyrant
killing every firstborn, or hundred of people rising from the graves.
Well? I don't see cooberation.
So, given the fact people makes ***** up, and that there is no
independent verification of this fantastical tales, should you really
think that it is an unfallible guide to life? Eh?
I mostly agree but have to argue about the blind seeing again.
There was a case reported here (UK) about 5 years ago about a blind man that
tripped over his guide dog and fell over, banging his head.
IIRC he fell down stairs. When he recovered, he found he had regained some
of his sight (not 100%, but enough to distinguish people's faces). The fact
that he was totally blind before and that he recovered much of his sight
after were medically documented. No gods or miracles involved, but blind
people *can* recover their sight, so that 'miracle' is not quite as far
fetched as the others you mentioned.
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
I'll go you one better than that. Lazarus rising from the dead need not have been
other than natural, provided you'll stipulate it was 'natural' for the credulous
first teller of the tale to think Laz dead, when he was merely -- ok, I want to
say pining for the fiords, but he might have been comatose, or even just postictal,
and fooled an untrained observer.
Always assuming the whole account wasn't mere yarn, as I suppose.
A giant leap for sane-kind.
Occam's Razor and all that.
After all, the story of Jesus himself is pure fiction.
Why should his exploits be less fictional?
.
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| User: "MarkA" |
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| Title: Re: Arguments From Antiquity, Arguments From Ignorance |
01 Feb 2008 08:33:10 PM |
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On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 04:08:37 +0000, Smiler wrote:
"Hatter" <Hatter23@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:21fa09a8-692a-4749-92ca-300040a136e5@j78g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
People make crap up. Tall tales, legends, drunken hallucinations,
exaggerations, deliberate lies to defraud, deliberate lies to make
ones seem "cooler" We've all witnessed this behavior in human beings
even if you are a 10 year old from a town like Mayberry.
So we can agree people make crap up.
Knowing this, shouldn't people at least look at this book, this bible,
with a little bit of suspicion?
Not pure dismissal, but suspicion. Some awfully strange stuff happen
in it. Magical wonder beyond that known as possible in day to day
life. Not just improbable, but downright impossible stuff like talking
animals and people coming back from the dead and healing the blind.
So if we have the suspicion of it being made up, what would we expect
to find? Similar sounding stories: plenty of vrgin birth god men and
loki being the thirteenth guest at a dinner party ending up with the
favorite getting murdered. So there ARE so similar sounding stories.
The other thing we would expect to find is no cooberation. No source
other than the teller of such fantastical occurances as a mad tyrant
killing every firstborn, or hundred of people rising from the graves.
Well? I don't see cooberation.
So, given the fact people makes ***** up, and that there is no
independent verification of this fantastical tales, should you really
think that it is an unfallible guide to life? Eh?
I mostly agree but have to argue about the blind seeing again.
There was a case reported here (UK) about 5 years ago about a blind man that
tripped over his guide dog and fell over, banging his head.
IIRC he fell down stairs. When he recovered, he found he had regained some
of his sight (not 100%, but enough to distinguish people's faces). The fact
that he was totally blind before and that he recovered much of his sight
after were medically documented. No gods or miracles involved, but blind
people *can* recover their sight, so that 'miracle' is not quite as far
fetched as the others you mentioned.
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
One of the "healing the blind" stories attributed to Jesus involve a man
who had been blind "since birth." Jesus restores his sight. It is well
known in developmental neuroscience, that the growing brain needs
stimulation to develop normally. A brain that had never received visual
information before would have no way to interpret the new signals it was
getting. It would be as if you could suddenly start hearing ultra high
and low frequencies: you would hear noise, but you wouldn't be able to
extract any meaningful information from it, as your brain has no prior
experience with it.
--
MarkA
(This space accidentally filled in)
.
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| User: "Smiler" |
|
| Title: Re: Arguments From Antiquity, Arguments From Ignorance |
02 Feb 2008 07:52:55 PM |
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"MarkA" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2008.02.02.02.33.07.469878@nowhere.com...
On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 04:08:37 +0000, Smiler wrote:
"Hatter" <Hatter23@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:21fa09a8-692a-4749-92ca-300040a136e5@j78g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
People make crap up. Tall tales, legends, drunken hallucinations,
exaggerations, deliberate lies to defraud, deliberate lies to make
ones seem "cooler" We've all witnessed this behavior in human beings
even if you are a 10 year old from a town like Mayberry.
So we can agree people make crap up.
Knowing this, shouldn't people at least look at this book, this bible,
with a little bit of suspicion?
Not pure dismissal, but suspicion. Some awfully strange stuff happen
in it. Magical wonder beyond that known as possible in day to day
life. Not just improbable, but downright impossible stuff like talking
animals and people coming back from the dead and healing the blind.
So if we have the suspicion of it being made up, what would we expect
to find? Similar sounding stories: plenty of vrgin birth god men and
loki being the thirteenth guest at a dinner party ending up with the
favorite getting murdered. So there ARE so similar sounding stories.
The other thing we would expect to find is no cooberation. No source
other than the teller of such fantastical occurances as a mad tyrant
killing every firstborn, or hundred of people rising from the graves.
Well? I don't see cooberation.
So, given the fact people makes ***** up, and that there is no
independent verification of this fantastical tales, should you really
think that it is an unfallible guide to life? Eh?
I mostly agree but have to argue about the blind seeing again.
There was a case reported here (UK) about 5 years ago about a blind man
that
tripped over his guide dog and fell over, banging his head.
IIRC he fell down stairs. When he recovered, he found he had regained
some
of his sight (not 100%, but enough to distinguish people's faces). The
fact
that he was totally blind before and that he recovered much of his sight
after were medically documented. No gods or miracles involved, but blind
people *can* recover their sight, so that 'miracle' is not quite as far
fetched as the others you mentioned.
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
One of the "healing the blind" stories attributed to Jesus involve a man
who had been blind "since birth." Jesus restores his sight. It is well
known in developmental neuroscience, that the growing brain needs
stimulation to develop normally. A brain that had never received visual
information before would have no way to interpret the new signals it was
getting. It would be as if you could suddenly start hearing ultra high
and low frequencies: you would hear noise, but you wouldn't be able to
extract any meaningful information from it, as your brain has no prior
experience with it.
--
MarkA
(This space accidentally filled in)
Yep. Jumbled light with no discernment at first but discernment coming
gradually over time.
I'm not arguing that the miracle ever happened, as they never do/did.
All I'm arguing with is Hatter's assertion that it's impossible for a blind
man to have his sight restored.
Leaving aside medical intervention such as cateract removal.
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
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| User: "Hatter" |
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| Title: Re: Arguments From Antiquity, Arguments From Ignorance |
04 Feb 2008 07:56:51 AM |
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On Feb 2, 8:52=A0pm, "Smiler" <Smi...@Joe.King.com> wrote:
"MarkA" <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2008.02.02.02.33.07.469878@nowhere.com...
On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 04:08:37 +0000, Smiler wrote:
"Hatter" <Hatte...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:21fa09a8-692a-4749-92ca-300040a136e5@j78g2000hsd.googlegroups.com..=
..
People make crap up. Tall tales, legends, drunken hallucinations,
exaggerations, deliberate lies to defraud, deliberate lies to make
ones seem "cooler" We've all witnessed this behavior in human beings
even if you are a 10 year old from a town like Mayberry.
So we can agree people make crap up.
Knowing this, shouldn't people at least look at this book, this bible,=
with a little bit of suspicion?
Not pure dismissal, but suspicion. Some awfully strange stuff happen
in it. Magical wonder beyond that known as possible in day to day
life. Not just improbable, but downright impossible stuff like talking=
animals and people coming back from the dead and healing the blind.
So if we have the suspicion of it being made up, what would we expect
to find? Similar sounding stories: plenty of vrgin birth god men and
loki being the thirteenth guest at a dinner party ending up with the
favorite getting murdered. So there ARE so similar sounding stories.
The other thing we would expect to find is no cooberation. No source
other than the teller of such fantastical occurances as a mad tyrant
killing every firstborn, or hundred of people rising from the graves.
Well? I don't see cooberation.
So, given the fact people makes ***** up, and that there is no
independent verification of this fantastical tales, should you really
think that it is an unfallible guide to life? Eh?
I mostly agree but have to argue about the blind seeing again.
There was a case reported here (UK) about 5 years ago about a blind man=
that
tripped over his guide dog and fell over, banging his head.
IIRC he fell down stairs. When he recovered, he found he had regained
some
of his sight (not 100%, but enough to distinguish people's faces). The
fact
that he was totally blind before and that he recovered much of his sigh=
t
after were medically documented. No gods or miracles involved, but blin=
d
people *can* recover their sight, so that 'miracle' is not quite as far=
fetched as the others you mentioned.
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
One of the "healing the blind" stories attributed to Jesus involve a man=
who had been blind "since birth." =A0Jesus restores his sight. =A0It is =
well
known in developmental neuroscience, that the growing brain needs
stimulation to develop normally. =A0A brain that had never received visu=
al
information before would have no way to interpret the new signals it was=
getting. =A0It would be as if you could suddenly start hearing ultra hig=
h
and low frequencies: you would hear noise, but you wouldn't be able to
extract any meaningful information from it, as your brain has no prior
experience with it.
--
MarkA
(This space accidentally filled in)
Yep. Jumbled light with no discernment at first but discernment coming
gradually over time.
I'm not arguing that the miracle ever happened, as they never do/did.
All I'm arguing with isHatter'sassertion that it's impossible for a blind
man to have his sight restored.
Leaving aside medical intervention such as cateract removal.
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Fine Restoring sight to the blind just by touching them with the
medical knowlege available to a carpenter from an ***** end region of
the Roman Empire 2000 years ago.
Hatter
.
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| User: "Smiler" |
|
| Title: Re: Arguments From Antiquity, Arguments From Ignorance |
04 Feb 2008 06:11:52 PM |
|
|
"Hatter" <Hatter23@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:461a45bc-b638-40cb-a424-5f8bfdc2e0c2@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 2, 8:52 pm, "Smiler" <Smi...@Joe.King.com> wrote:
"MarkA" <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2008.02.02.02.33.07.469878@nowhere.com...
On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 04:08:37 +0000, Smiler wrote:
"Hatter" <Hatte...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:21fa09a8-692a-4749-92ca-300040a136e5@j78g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
People make crap up. Tall tales, legends, drunken hallucinations,
exaggerations, deliberate lies to defraud, deliberate lies to make
ones seem "cooler" We've all witnessed this behavior in human beings
even if you are a 10 year old from a town like Mayberry.
So we can agree people make crap up.
Knowing this, shouldn't people at least look at this book, this bible,
with a little bit of suspicion?
Not pure dismissal, but suspicion. Some awfully strange stuff happen
in it. Magical wonder beyond that known as possible in day to day
life. Not just improbable, but downright impossible stuff like talking
animals and people coming back from the dead and healing the blind.
So if we have the suspicion of it being made up, what would we expect
to find? Similar sounding stories: plenty of vrgin birth god men and
loki being the thirteenth guest at a dinner party ending up with the
favorite getting murdered. So there ARE so similar sounding stories.
The other thing we would expect to find is no cooberation. No source
other than the teller of such fantastical occurances as a mad tyrant
killing every firstborn, or hundred of people rising from the graves.
Well? I don't see cooberation.
So, given the fact people makes ***** up, and that there is no
independent verification of this fantastical tales, should you really
think that it is an unfallible guide to life? Eh?
I mostly agree but have to argue about the blind seeing again.
There was a case reported here (UK) about 5 years ago about a blind man
that
tripped over his guide dog and fell over, banging his head.
IIRC he fell down stairs. When he recovered, he found he had regained
some
of his sight (not 100%, but enough to distinguish people's faces). The
fact
that he was totally blind before and that he recovered much of his
sight
after were medically documented. No gods or miracles involved, but
blind
people *can* recover their sight, so that 'miracle' is not quite as far
fetched as the others you mentioned.
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
One of the "healing the blind" stories attributed to Jesus involve a man
who had been blind "since birth." Jesus restores his sight. It is well
known in developmental neuroscience, that the growing brain needs
stimulation to develop normally. A brain that had never received visual
information before would have no way to interpret the new signals it was
getting. It would be as if you could suddenly start hearing ultra high
and low frequencies: you would hear noise, but you wouldn't be able to
extract any meaningful information from it, as your brain has no prior
experience with it.
--
MarkA
(This space accidentally filled in)
Yep. Jumbled light with no discernment at first but discernment coming
gradually over time.
I'm not arguing that the miracle ever happened, as they never do/did.
All I'm arguing with isHatter'sassertion that it's impossible for a blind
man to have his sight restored.
Leaving aside medical intervention such as cateract removal.
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Fine Restoring sight to the blind just by touching them with the
medical knowlege available to a carpenter from an ***** end region of
the Roman Empire 2000 years ago.
Hatter
++Agreed, but your OP didn't say that.
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Arguments From Antiquity, Arguments From Ignorance |
01 Feb 2008 01:59:24 AM |
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On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 04:08:37 GMT, "Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com>
wrote:
"Hatter" <Hatter23@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:21fa09a8-692a-4749-92ca-300040a136e5@j78g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
People make crap up. Tall tales, legends, drunken hallucinations,
exaggerations, deliberate lies to defraud, deliberate lies to make
ones seem "cooler" We've all witnessed this behavior in human beings
even if you are a 10 year old from a town like Mayberry.
So we can agree people make crap up.
Knowing this, shouldn't people at least look at this book, this bible,
with a little bit of suspicion?
Not pure dismissal, but suspicion. Some awfully strange stuff happen
in it. Magical wonder beyond that known as possible in day to day
life. Not just improbable, but downright impossible stuff like talking
animals and people coming back from the dead and healing the blind.
So if we have the suspicion of it being made up, what would we expect
to find? Similar sounding stories: plenty of vrgin birth god men and
loki being the thirteenth guest at a dinner party ending up with the
favorite getting murdered. So there ARE so similar sounding stories.
The other thing we would expect to find is no cooberation. No source
other than the teller of such fantastical occurances as a mad tyrant
killing every firstborn, or hundred of people rising from the graves.
Well? I don't see cooberation.
So, given the fact people makes ***** up, and that there is no
independent verification of this fantastical tales, should you really
think that it is an unfallible guide to life? Eh?
I mostly agree but have to argue about the blind seeing again.
There was a case reported here (UK) about 5 years ago about a blind man that
tripped over his guide dog and fell over, banging his head.
IIRC he fell down stairs. When he recovered, he found he had regained some
of his sight (not 100%, but enough to distinguish people's faces). The fact
that he was totally blind before and that he recovered much of his sight
after were medically documented. No gods or miracles involved, but blind
people *can* recover their sight, so that 'miracle' is not quite as far
fetched as the others you mentioned.
Such is common enough, but still rare, in cases of retinal detachment
mediated sight loss.
.
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
|
| Title: Re: Arguments From Antiquity, Arguments From Ignorance |
01 Feb 2008 12:40:50 AM |
|
|
One fine day in alt.atheism, "Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com> bloodied us
up with this:
"Hatter" <Hatter23@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:21fa09a8-692a-4749-92ca-300040a136e5@j78g2000hsd.googlegroups.com.
..
People make crap up. Tall tales, legends, drunken hallucinations,
exaggerations, deliberate lies to defraud, deliberate lies to make
ones seem | | |
