| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"exobiologist" |
| Date: |
11 Jul 2005 09:40:52 PM |
| Object: |
Article : Ego The False Center |
And that real center is the soul, the self, the god, the truth, or
whatsoever you want to call it.
It is nameless, so all names are good.
You can give it any name of your own liking. <
This is an excerpt from a very great teacher Osho. Please read with an
open mind.
http://deoxy.org/egofalse.htm
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: Article : Ego The False Center |
12 Jul 2005 04:11:33 AM |
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"exobiologist" <hereinthedark@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1121136052.601499.303390@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
And that real center is the soul, the self, the god, the truth, or
whatsoever you want to call it.
It is nameless, so all names are good.
You can give it any name of your own liking. <
This is an excerpt from a very great teacher Osho. Please read with an
open mind.
http://deoxy.org/egofalse.htm
'Great teacher' more like 'Fucking lunatic.'
Now take your religious ***** and shove it back up your arse.
--
Jez, MBA.,
Country Dancing and Advanced Astrology, UBS.
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
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| User: "dgillesp" |
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| Title: Re: Article : Ego The False Center |
12 Jul 2005 09:08:20 AM |
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Jez wrote:
"exobiologist" <hereinthedark@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1121136052.601499.303390@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
And that real center is the soul, the self, the god, the truth, or
whatsoever you want to call it.
It is nameless, so all names are good.
You can give it any name of your own liking. <
This is an excerpt from a very great teacher Osho. Please read with an
open mind.
http://deoxy.org/egofalse.htm
'Great teacher' more like 'Fucking lunatic.'
Now take your religious ***** and shove it back up your arse.
--
Jez, MBA.,
Country Dancing and Advanced Astrology, UBS.
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
But by all means one must never! ever! be skeptical of skepticism.
Everything else, of course, is fair game.
Denny
liberal democrat orthodox christian
--
"The curse of a godless man can sound more pleasant in God's ears
than the Hallelujah of the pious." - Martin Luther
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| User: "Josef Balluch" |
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| Title: Re: Article : Ego The False Center |
12 Jul 2005 08:16:11 PM |
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In a message sent 'round the world, dgillesp poured fuel on the fire
with the following:
....
But by all means one must never! ever! be skeptical of skepticism.
One should certainly be sceptical of scepticism, for in doing so you
validate scepticism.
Everything else, of course, is fair game.
Would you like some cheese with that whine?
Regards,
Josef
Skepticism is the first step toward truth.
-- Denis Diderot
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| User: "skyeyes" |
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| Title: Re: Article : Ego The False Center |
13 Jul 2005 04:58:39 PM |
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Josef Balluch wrote:
One should certainly be sceptical of scepticism, for in doing so you
validate scepticism.
I CALL SIG!
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
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| User: "Del" |
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| Title: Re: Article : Ego The False Center |
12 Jul 2005 03:19:35 PM |
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dgillesp wrote:
Jez wrote:
"exobiologist" <hereinthedark@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1121136052.601499.303390@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
And that real center is the soul, the self, the god, the truth, or
w hatsoever you want to call it.
It is nameless, so all names are good.
You can give it any name of your own liking. <
This is an excerpt from a very great teacher Osho. Please read with an
open mind.
http://deoxy.org/egofalse.htm
'Great teacher' more like 'Fucking lunatic.'
Now take your religious ***** and shove it back up your arse.
--
Jez, MBA.,
Country Dancing and Advanced Astrology, UBS.
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
But by all means one must never! ever! be skeptical of skepticism.
Everything else, of course, is fair game.
There is nothing in the quoted text that could be rationally
interpreted to mean this.
Denny
liberal d emocrat orthodox christian
Isn't bearing false witness still Commandment #9?
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Article : Ego The False Center |
11 Jul 2005 11:32:48 PM |
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"exobiologist" <hereinthedark@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1121136052.601499.303390@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
And that real center is the soul, the self, the god, the truth, or
whatsoever you want to call it.
It is nameless, so all names are good.
You can give it any name of your own liking. <
How about "Hogwash".
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
http://www.ashenempires.com
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| User: "Richo" |
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| Title: Re: Article : Ego The False Center |
12 Jul 2005 12:07:03 AM |
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exobiologist wrote:
And that real center is the soul, the self, the god, the truth, or
whatsoever you want to call it.
It is nameless, so all names are good.
You can give it any name of your own liking. <
This is an excerpt from a very great teacher Osho. Please read with an
open mind.
Done.
It's about the perils of Egoism - it says some wise things.
I believe that the creating and worshiping of gods is an extravagant
act of Egoism.
Why do we have gods?
Because we feel the need to control our destiny which seems beset with
forces that can overwhealm us.
We create a god that represents the "mind" behind those forces so we
can then bargain with the god to "save" us from whatever we most fear -
particularly death - ie the death of our selves.
So clinging to our own little lives is the driving force behind the
belief in God.
If you shun the dangers of rampant egoism you should be an atheist.
Mark.
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| User: "dgillesp" |
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| Title: Re: Article : Ego The False Center |
12 Jul 2005 09:03:17 AM |
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Richo wrote:
exobiologist wrote:
And that real center is the soul, the self, the god, the truth, or
whatsoever you want to call it.
It is nameless, so all names are good.
You can give it any name of your own liking. <
This is an excerpt from a very great teacher Osho. Please read with an
open mind.
Done.
It's about the perils of Egoism - it says some wise things.
Agreed/
I believe that the creating and worshiping of gods is an extravagant
act of Egoism. [It can become that, but does not apply to all.]
I believe that the debunking and arrogant dismissal of gods is always an
extravagant act of Egoism.
Why do we have gods?
Because we feel the need to control our destiny which seems beset with
forces that can overwhealm us.
Why do we have no gods?
Because we feel the need to control our destiny which seems beset with
forces that can overwhelm us, and above all else the existence of a
"Force" to whom we and all humanity is accountable.
We create a god that represents the "mind" behind those forces so we
can then bargain with the god to "save" us from whatever we most fear -
We deny any god that represents the "mind" behind those forces lest we
lose our personal sovereignty and
[dubious] autonomy, for that is what we most fear
particularly death - ie the death of our selves.
Ergo death loses its power because what's to fear if nothing lies beyond
this world?
So clinging to our own little lives is the driving force behind the
belief in God.
So clinging to our own little lives [kingdoms] is a driving force behind
disbelief in God.
If you shun the dangers of rampant egoism you should be an atheist.
If you shun the dangers of rampant egoism.... good luck and God help
you!
Mark.
Denny
--
"The curse of a godless man can sound more pleasant in God's ears
than the Hallelujah of the pious." - Martin Luther
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| User: "Richo" |
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| Title: Re: Article : Ego The False Center |
12 Jul 2005 08:14:46 PM |
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dgillesp wrote:
Richo wrote:
exobiologist wrote:
And that real center is the soul, the self, the god, the truth, or
whatsoever you want to call it.
It is nameless, so all names are good.
You can give it any name of your own liking. <
This is an excerpt from a very great teacher Osho. Please read with an
open mind.
Done.
It's about the perils of Egoism - it says some wise things.
Agreed/
I believe that the creating and worshiping of gods is an extravagant
act of Egoism. [It can become that, but does not apply to all.]
I believe that the debunking and arrogant dismissal of gods is always an
extravagant act of Egoism.
Well at least one of us is wrong.
8-)
Why do we have gods?
Because we feel the need to control our destiny which seems beset with
forces that can overwhealm us.
Why do we have no gods?
Because we feel the need to control our destiny which seems beset with
forces that can overwhelm us, and above all else the existence of a
"Force" to whom we and all humanity is accountable.
It is possible to have selfish/base reasons for rejecting the worship
of gods - I acknowledge the possibility.
It is also possible to reject gods through a genuine desire for
enligtenment/wisdom and freedom from our inner deamons/weaknesses.
Is that a possibility in your worldview?
I think this is a critical question for believers.
It seems to me that standard theology says that all who seek freedom
from God belief *must* be doing so for evil (or at the very least
selfish and base) motives.
Do you "tow the party line" on this?
Or do you acknowledge a genuine search for truth could lead to the
rejection of all gods as false?
We create a god that represents the "mind" behind those forces so we
can then bargain with the god to "save" us from whatever we most fear -
We deny any god that represents the "mind" behind those forces lest we
lose our personal sovereignty and
[dubious] autonomy, for that is what we most fear
I acknowledge the possibility.
Being aware of the possibility is the first step in avoiding the
problem.
That it is possible to stumble isnt a reason to not embark on a
journey.
particularly death - ie the death of our selves.
Ergo death loses its power because what's to fear if nothing lies beyond
this world?
It's complicated - but the fear of death of the self is a major
motivator in many beliefs about the spiritual.
So clinging to our own little lives is the driving force behind the
belief in God.
So clinging to our own little lives [kingdoms] is a driving force behind
disbelief in God.
It could be.
It depends on the quality of thought and insight a person has.
If you can think clearly then no it isnt.
If you shun the dangers of rampant egoism.... good luck and God help
you!
God is the shadow of human ego.
You worship an image Denny - you just don't understand that yet.
Mark.
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| User: "dgillesp" |
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| Title: Re: Article : Ego The False Center |
13 Jul 2005 06:26:52 PM |
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Richo wrote:
dgillesp wrote:
Richo wrote:
exobiologist wrote:
And that real center is the soul, the self, the god, the truth, or
whatsoever you want to call it.
It is nameless, so all names are good.
You can give it any name of your own liking. <
This is an excerpt from a very great teacher Osho. Please read with an
open mind.
Done.
It's about the perils of Egoism - it says some wise things.
Agreed/
I believe that the creating and worshiping of gods is an extravagant
act of Egoism. [It can become that, but does not apply to all.]
I believe that the debunking and arrogant dismissal of gods is always an
extravagant act of Egoism.
Well at least one of us is wrong.
8-)
I would say both of us are right.
Why do we have gods?
Because we feel the need to control our destiny which seems beset with
forces that can overwhealm us.
Why do we have no gods?
Because we feel the need to control our destiny which seems beset with
forces that can overwhelm us, and above all else the existence of a
"Force" to whom we and all humanity is accountable.
It is possible to have selfish/base reasons for rejecting the worship
of gods - I acknowledge the possibility.
It is also possible to reject gods through a genuine desire for
enligtenment/wisdom and freedom from our inner deamons/weaknesses.
Is that a possibility in your worldview?
I'm sure many who profess atheism do so honestly and with integrity.
I think this is a critical question for believers.
It seems to me that standard theology says that all who seek freedom
from God belief *must* be doing so for evil (or at the very least
selfish and base) motives.
The early Christians were called atheists because they rejected the
panoply of the gods. Most descriptions of and assumptions about God on
this n/g are, from my HPOV, caricatures of both atheists and fundy
Christians. I don't hesitate to say I am a disbeliever in such a god
myself.
Do you "tow the party line" on this?
Or do you acknowledge a genuine search for truth could lead to the
rejection of all gods as false?
Yes, but such a conclusion is far from inevitable for the honest
searcher after truth.
We create a god that represents the "mind" behind those forces so we
can then bargain with the god to "save" us from whatever we most fear -
We deny any god that represents the "mind" behind those forces lest we
lose our personal sovereignty and
[dubious] autonomy, for that is what we most fear
I acknowledge the possibility.
Being aware of the possibility is the first step in avoiding the
problem.
That it is possible to stumble isnt a reason to not embark on a
journey.
particularly death - ie the death of our selves.
Ergo death loses its power because what's to fear if nothing lies beyond
this world?
It's complicated - but the fear of death of the self is a major
motivator in many beliefs about the spiritual.
So clinging to our own little lives is the driving force behind the
belief in God.
So clinging to our own little lives [kingdoms] is a driving force behind
disbelief in God.
It could be.
It depends on the quality of thought and insight a person has.
If you can think clearly then no it isnt.
If you shun the dangers of rampant egoism.... good luck and God help
you!
God is the shadow of human ego.
In Freudian terms, I would say God is not the shadow of human ego, but
much more the reflection of the Superego or conscience which stands in
opposition to the desires and impulses of the Id. The Superego is "part
of the unconscious mind, and based upon the internalization of the world
view, norms and mores a child absorbs from parents...."
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superego>
You worship an image Denny - you just don't understand that yet.
Which is the predicament of the human race, is it not? Man's devotion
and commitment to himself as the only god deserving of worship
(worth-ship). Nietzsche understood that very well: "There cannot be a
God because, If there were one, I would not believe that I were not
He."
Mark.
Denny
--
"The curse of a godless man can sound more pleasant in God's ears
than the Hallelujah of the pious." - Martin Luther
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| User: "Richo" |
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| Title: Re: Article : Ego The False Center |
13 Jul 2005 08:44:17 PM |
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dgillesp wrote:
Richo wrote:
Well at least one of us is wrong.
8-)
I would say both of us are right.
A most diplomatic answer - and like most statements which avoid
absolute certainty probably correct.
Thank you for your thoughtful answer.
Mark.
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