Religions > Atheism > Article: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"JPG" |
| Date: |
21 Nov 2006 04:29:08 AM |
| Object: |
Article: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1121/p09s01-coop.html
Same old crap which has been debunked ad nauseum, but I'll repost it
anyway for your amusement
Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of
history
By Dinesh D'Souza
RANCHO SANTA FE, CALIF. - In recent months, a spate of atheist books
have argued that religion represents, as "End of Faith" author Sam
Harris puts it, "the most potent source of human conflict, past and
present."
Columnist Robert Kuttner gives the familiar litany. "The Crusades
slaughtered millions in the name of Jesus. The Inquisition brought the
torture and murder of millions more. After Martin Luther, Christians
did bloody battle with other Christians for another three centuries."
In the Monitor
Tuesday, 11/21/06
In his bestseller "The God Delusion," Richard Dawkins contends that
most of the world's recent conflicts - in the Middle East, in the
Balkans, in Northern Ireland, in Kashmir, and in Sri Lanka - show the
vitality of religion's murderous impulse.
The problem with this critique is that it exaggerates the crimes
attributed to religion, while ignoring the greater crimes of secular
fanaticism. The best example of religious persecution in America is the
Salem witch trials. How many people were killed in those trials?
Thousands? Hundreds? Actually, fewer than 25. Yet the event still
haunts the liberal imagination.
It is strange to witness the passion with which some secular figures
rail against the misdeeds of the Crusaders and Inquisitors more than
500 years ago. The number sentenced to death by the Spanish Inquisition
appears to be about 10,000. Some historians contend that an additional
100,000 died in jail due to malnutrition or illness.
These figures are tragic, and of course population levels were much
lower at the time. But even so, they are minuscule compared with the
death tolls produced by the atheist despotisms of the 20th century. In
the name of creating their version of a religion-free utopia, Adolf
Hitler, Joseph Stalin, and Mao Zedong produced the kind of mass
slaughter that no Inquisitor could possibly match. Collectively these
atheist tyrants murdered more than 100 million people.
Moreover, many of the conflicts that are counted as "religious wars"
were not fought over religion. They were mainly fought over rival
claims to territory and power. Can the wars between England and France
be called religious wars because the English were Protestants and the
French were Catholics? Hardly.
The same is true today. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not, at its
core, a religious one. It arises out of a dispute over
self-determination and land. Hamas and the extreme orthodox parties in
Israel may advance theological claims - "God gave us this land" and so
forth - but the conflict would remain essentially the same even without
these religious motives. Ethnic rivalry, not religion, is the source of
the tension in Northern Ireland and the Balkans.
Blindly blaming religion for conflict
Yet today's atheists insist on making religion the culprit. Consider
Mr. Harris's analysis of the conflict in Sri Lanka. "While the
motivations of the Tamil Tigers are not explicitly religious," he
informs us, "they are Hindus who undoubtedly believe many improbable
things about the nature of life and death." In other words, while the
Tigers see themselves as combatants in a secular political struggle,
Harris detects a religious motive because these people happen to be
Hindu and surely there must be some underlying religious craziness that
explains their fanaticism.
Harris can go on forever in this vein. Seeking to exonerate secularism
and atheism from the horrors perpetrated in their name, he argues that
Stalinism and Maoism were in reality "little more than a political
religion." As for Nazism, "while the hatred of Jews in Germany
expressed itself in a predominantly secular way, it was a direct
inheritance from medieval Christianity." Indeed, "The holocaust marked
the culmination of ... two thousand years of Christian fulminating
against the Jews."
One finds the same inanities in Mr. Dawkins's work. Don't be fooled by
this rhetorical legerdemain. Dawkins and Harris cannot explain why, if
Nazism was directly descended from medieval Christianity, medieval
Christianity did not produce a Hitler. How can a self-proclaimed
atheist ideology, advanced by Hitler as a repudiation of Christianity,
be a "culmination" of 2,000 years of Christianity? Dawkins and Harris
are employing a transparent sleight of hand that holds Christianity
responsible for the crimes committed in its name, while exonerating
secularism and atheism for the greater crimes committed in their name.
Religious fanatics have done things that are impossible to defend, and
some of them, mostly in the Muslim world, are still performing horrors
in the name of their creed. But if religion sometimes disposes people
to self-righteousness and absolutism, it also provides a moral code
that condemns the slaughter of innocents. In particular, the moral
teachings of Jesus provide no support for - indeed they stand as a
stern rebuke to - the historical injustices perpetrated in the name of
Christianity.
Atheist hubris
The crimes of atheism have generally been perpetrated through a
hubristic ideology that sees man, not God, as the creator of values.
Using the latest techniques of science and technology, man seeks to
displace God and create a secular utopia here on earth. Of course if
some people - the Jews, the landowners, the unfit, or the handicapped -
have to be eliminated in order to achieve this utopia, this is a price
the atheist tyrants and their apologists have shown themselves quite
willing to pay. Thus they confirm the truth of Fyodor Dostoyevsky's
dictum, "If God is not, everything is permitted."
Whatever the motives for atheist bloodthirstiness, the indisputable
fact is that all the religions of the world put together have in 2,000
years not managed to kill as many people as have been killed in the
name of atheism in the past few decades.
It's time to abandon the mindlessly repeated mantra that religious
belief has been the greatest source of human conflict and violence.
Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of
history.
=B7 Dinesh D'Souza is the Rishwain Fellow at the Hoover Institution.
His new book, "The Enemy at Home: The Cultural Left and Its
Responsibility for 9/11," will be published in January.
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| User: "Greywolf" |
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| Title: Re: Article: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
21 Nov 2006 08:20:15 AM |
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"JPG" <j_peasemold_gruntfuttock@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1164104948.326449.299170@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1121/p09s01-coop.html
Same old crap which has been debunked ad nauseum, but I'll repost it
anyway for your amusement
Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of
history
By Dinesh D'Souza
RANCHO SANTA FE, CALIF. - In recent months, a spate of atheist books
have argued that religion represents, as "End of Faith" author Sam
Harris puts it, "the most potent source of human conflict, past and
present."
Columnist Robert Kuttner gives the familiar litany. "The Crusades
slaughtered millions in the name of Jesus. The Inquisition brought the
torture and murder of millions more. After Martin Luther, Christians
did bloody battle with other Christians for another three centuries."
In the Monitor
Tuesday, 11/21/06
In his bestseller "The God Delusion," Richard Dawkins contends that
most of the world's recent conflicts - in the Middle East, in the
Balkans, in Northern Ireland, in Kashmir, and in Sri Lanka - show the
vitality of religion's murderous impulse.
The problem with this critique is that it exaggerates the crimes
attributed to religion, while ignoring the greater crimes of secular
fanaticism. The best example of religious persecution in America is the
Salem witch trials. How many people were killed in those trials?
Thousands? Hundreds? Actually, fewer than 25. Yet the event still
haunts the liberal imagination.
It is strange to witness the passion with which some secular figures
rail against the misdeeds of the Crusaders and Inquisitors more than
500 years ago. The number sentenced to death by the Spanish Inquisition
appears to be about 10,000. Some historians contend that an additional
100,000 died in jail due to malnutrition or illness.
These figures are tragic, and of course population levels were much
lower at the time. But even so, they are minuscule compared with the
death tolls produced by the atheist despotisms of the 20th century. In
the name of creating their version of a religion-free utopia, Adolf
Hitler, Joseph Stalin, and Mao Zedong produced the kind of mass
slaughter that no Inquisitor could possibly match. Collectively these
atheist tyrants murdered more than 100 million people.
Moreover, many of the conflicts that are counted as "religious wars"
were not fought over religion. They were mainly fought over rival
claims to territory and power. Can the wars between England and France
be called religious wars because the English were Protestants and the
French were Catholics? Hardly.
The same is true today. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not, at its
core, a religious one. It arises out of a dispute over
self-determination and land. Hamas and the extreme orthodox parties in
Israel may advance theological claims - "God gave us this land" and so
forth - but the conflict would remain essentially the same even without
these religious motives. Ethnic rivalry, not religion, is the source of
the tension in Northern Ireland and the Balkans.
Blindly blaming religion for conflict
Yet today's atheists insist on making religion the culprit. Consider
Mr. Harris's analysis of the conflict in Sri Lanka. "While the
motivations of the Tamil Tigers are not explicitly religious," he
informs us, "they are Hindus who undoubtedly believe many improbable
things about the nature of life and death." In other words, while the
Tigers see themselves as combatants in a secular political struggle,
Harris detects a religious motive because these people happen to be
Hindu and surely there must be some underlying religious craziness that
explains their fanaticism.
Harris can go on forever in this vein. Seeking to exonerate secularism
and atheism from the horrors perpetrated in their name, he argues that
Stalinism and Maoism were in reality "little more than a political
religion." As for Nazism, "while the hatred of Jews in Germany
expressed itself in a predominantly secular way, it was a direct
inheritance from medieval Christianity." Indeed, "The holocaust marked
the culmination of ... two thousand years of Christian fulminating
against the Jews."
One finds the same inanities in Mr. Dawkins's work. Don't be fooled by
this rhetorical legerdemain. Dawkins and Harris cannot explain why, if
Nazism was directly descended from medieval Christianity, medieval
Christianity did not produce a Hitler. How can a self-proclaimed
atheist ideology, advanced by Hitler as a repudiation of Christianity,
be a "culmination" of 2,000 years of Christianity? Dawkins and Harris
are employing a transparent sleight of hand that holds Christianity
responsible for the crimes committed in its name, while exonerating
secularism and atheism for the greater crimes committed in their name.
Religious fanatics have done things that are impossible to defend, and
some of them, mostly in the Muslim world, are still performing horrors
in the name of their creed. But if religion sometimes disposes people
to self-righteousness and absolutism, it also provides a moral code
that condemns the slaughter of innocents. In particular, the moral
teachings of Jesus provide no support for - indeed they stand as a
stern rebuke to - the historical injustices perpetrated in the name of
Christianity.
Atheist hubris
The crimes of atheism have generally been perpetrated through a
hubristic ideology that sees man, not God, as the creator of values.
Using the latest techniques of science and technology, man seeks to
displace God and create a secular utopia here on earth. Of course if
some people - the Jews, the landowners, the unfit, or the handicapped -
have to be eliminated in order to achieve this utopia, this is a price
the atheist tyrants and their apologists have shown themselves quite
willing to pay. Thus they confirm the truth of Fyodor Dostoyevsky's
dictum, "If God is not, everything is permitted."
Whatever the motives for atheist bloodthirstiness, the indisputable
fact is that all the religions of the world put together have in 2,000
years not managed to kill as many people as have been killed in the
name of atheism in the past few decades.
It's time to abandon the mindlessly repeated mantra that religious
belief has been the greatest source of human conflict and violence.
Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of
history.
· Dinesh D'Souza is the Rishwain Fellow at the Hoover Institution.
His new book, "The Enemy at Home: The Cultural Left and Its
Responsibility for 9/11," will be published in January.
Did someone say ... 'crap'?
Greywolf
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| User: "quibbler" |
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| Title: Re: Article: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
21 Nov 2006 08:37:31 AM |
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In article <1164104948.326449.299170@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
j_peasemold_gruntfuttock@hotmail.com says...
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1121/p09s01-coop.html
Same old crap which has been debunked ad nauseum, but I'll repost it
anyway for your amusement
Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of
history
By Dinesh D'Souza
It just shows that self-proclaimed conservative super-intellect Dinesh
D'Souza is actually no smarter than the average 85 IQ theist dipshit who
churns this same crap out continually.
While it's been pointed out that most every war before the 20th century
could be ascribed to religious leaders, divine right monarchs, etc,
perhaps it's time to invoke one more principle. Just like there is a
concept of adjustment for *inflation* in money, there should be a concept
of adjustment for population inflation. All these religious idiots focus
on the 20th century because they know very well that there were larger
populations and technologies which made killing easier than ever before.
But when the bible describes battles where they literally claim that tens
or possibly hundreds of thousands of people are killed, you had to try
much harder and be much more bloodthirsty back then, to go around and
slice that many people up with your sword. So, really, the religious
tyrants of the past, adjusted for population and technology inflation did
far worse things than even stalin and mao could be blamed for, even if we
accept the ricidulously exaggerated figures attributed to them. And of
course, these were matters of nation, ethnic and political tension, or
the paranoia individuals that had nothing to do with atheism.
--
"I condemn false prophets, I condemn the effort
to take away the power of rational decision, to
drain people of their free will--and a hell of a
lot of money in the bargain. Religions vary in
their degree of idiocy, but I reject them all.
For most people, religion is nothing more than a
substitute for a malfunctioning brain." --Gene Roddenberry
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Article: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind themass murders of history |
21 Nov 2006 10:09:46 AM |
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On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 07:37:31 -0700, quibbler wrote:
In article <1164104948.326449.299170@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
j_peasemold_gruntfuttock@hotmail.com says...
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1121/p09s01-coop.html
Same old crap which has been debunked ad nauseum, but I'll repost it
anyway for your amusement
Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of
history
By Dinesh D'Souza
It just shows that self-proclaimed conservative super-intellect Dinesh
D'Souza is actually no smarter than the average 85 IQ theist dipshit who
churns this same crap out continually.
But... but... he's super-intelligent, just ask him!
--
Mark K. Bilbo
------------------------------------------------------------
There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels.
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| User: "quibbler" |
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| Title: Re: Article: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
21 Nov 2006 08:55:42 AM |
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In article <1164104948.326449.299170@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,=20
j_peasemold_gruntfuttock@hotmail.com says...
It's time to abandon the mindlessly repeated mantra that religious
belief has been the greatest source of human conflict and violence.
It's time to stop lying about it being a mindless mantra, when it is, in=20
fact, the reality. =20
Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of
history.
About 40 billion people have lived and died on earth in all of recorded=20
history and of those who were killed, the overwhelming majority were=20
killed by someone who was a believer in some god. Therefore, we can=20
blame theism for the actions of theists in the same way that D'Souza=20
lamely blames atheism for everything done by atheists. =20
=20
=B7 Dinesh D'Souza is the Rishwain Fellow at the Hoover Institution.
LOL. The Hoover Institute. What a fucking joke. =20
His new book, "The Enemy at Home: The Cultural Left and Its
Responsibility for 9/11,"
Except that bush was the person responsible, by any reasonable standard. =
=20
It's his job to defend us and he failed. That's the bottom line, despite=
=20
endless spin. Furthermore, the same sort of attack could occur again and=
=20
the bush administration has not taken credible steps to make sure that=20
they could prevent it. =20
--=20
"I condemn false prophets, I condemn the effort=20
to take away the power of rational decision, to=20
drain people of their free will--and a hell of a=20
lot of money in the bargain. Religions vary in=20
their degree of idiocy, but I reject them all.=20
For most people, religion is nothing more than a=20
substitute for a malfunctioning brain." --Gene Roddenberry
.
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| User: "Peter Ashby" |
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| Title: Re: Article: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
21 Nov 2006 10:22:48 AM |
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quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote:
His new book, "The Enemy at Home: The Cultural Left and Its
Responsibility for 9/11,"
Except that bush was the person responsible, by any reasonable standard.
It's his job to defend us and he failed. That's the bottom line, despite
endless spin. Furthermore, the same sort of attack could occur again and
the bush administration has not taken credible steps to make sure that
they could prevent it.
To be pendantic the moslem/Arab beef about the US is pretty immune to
who is in power and from this side of the pond one of the frustrations
of, for eg, the Clinton presidency is stuff all changed in foreign
policy terms, if things had been radically different from business as
usual maybe (just maybe) the crazies might have been given pause for
thought.
So the question is not which side in US politics is 'responsible', that
ducks the real questions, which is why the rhetoric about exporting
democracy stops as soon as it seems like those ignorant foreigners vote
for the 'wrong' people. The EU monitors said the recent Palistinian
elections were among the fairest they had ever monitored, a model for
the Arab world. So what happens? their democratic choice is ignored and
the people are punished, yes punished for being such good democrats.
And yes, the EU was equally craven, though at least we managed to look
embarrassed by it. Acknowledging the wrong is the first step to changing
it.
Peter
--
Add my middle initial to email me. It has become attached to a country
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| User: "Raymond" |
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| Title: Re: Article: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
21 Nov 2006 09:05:57 AM |
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quibbler wrote:
In article <1164104948.326449.299170@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
j_peasemold_gruntfuttock@hotmail.com says...
It's time to abandon the mindlessly repeated mantra that religious
belief has been the greatest source of human conflict and violence.
It's time to stop lying about it being a mindless mantra, when it is, in
fact, the reality.
Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of
history.
About 40 billion people have lived and died on earth in all of recorded
history and of those who were killed, the overwhelming majority were
killed by someone who was a believer in some god. Therefore, we can
blame theism for the actions of theists in the same way that D'Souza
lamely blames atheism for everything done by atheists.
Shalom:
Most criminals follow a religion.
And most religions are criminal.
When asked about religious belief and practice, ordinary citizens lie.
And they lie about their faith to a greater degree then they lie about
their sex life, or political activity., and there's a large element
of hypocrisy involved in public debate involving citizens who
are not examining their own behavior as critically as they
examine the behavior of others. Unless and until we learn
to be honest with ourselves, can we expect our elected
leaders to have an integrity we lack?
"They lie about their faith to a greater degree then they lie about
their sex life, or political activity." The image of religion in
America as exceptionally strong and stable has been at least partially
supported by poll data. Research raises doubts about that image.
How do I know this? From several research projects involving an actual
head count of the number of people attending churches in areas of the
country where people were reporting high levels of attendance. For
example, researchers C. Kirk Hadaway, P. L. Marler and Mark Chaves
physically counted every person in every Protestant church in one Ohio
county and in every Catholic church in 18 dioceses. They found that, in
fact, only 20 percent of Protestants were actually in church on a given
Sunday morning, whereas 40 percent reported they had attended church
that Sunday. Likewise, they found that only 28 percent of Catholics
attended mass, while 50 percent reported doing so.
Subsequent studies have confirmed these findings. The interesting
question then follows. Why do people misrepresent their religious
activity? Or to put it more bluntly, why do they lie about their
faith? There is a well known phenomenon among social science
researchers that people tend to answer questions on the basis of what
they think the pollster wants to hear, or what they think the "correct"
answer ought to be. Hadaway and Marler put it this way:
Gallup asks, "Did you, yourself, happen to attend church or synagogue
in the last seven days?" Active church members who did not happen to
attend church last Saturday or Sunday are expected to say no in
response to Gallup's question. But this creates problems for people who
see themselves as committed church members and "weekly attenders."
Many have an internal rule that says, "I am a person who attends church
every week." Saying "No, I did not attend church" violates that
internal rule and identifies them, symbolically, as non churchgoers. On
the other hand, saying, "Yes, I went" is consistent with their internal
rule, counts them on the side of active churchgoers, is in line with
their usual behavior (including what they hope to do next week) and
affirms their support of the church.
Numerous studies show that people do not accurately report their
behavior to pollsters. Americans misreport how often they vote, how
much they give to charity and how frequently they use illegal drugs.
Their misreporting is in the expected direction: people report higher
than actual figures for voting and charitable giving, lower for illegal
drug use. People are not entirely accurate in their self-reports about
other areas as well. Males exaggerate their number of sexual partners;
university workers are not very honest about reporting how many
photocopies they make. Actual attendance at museums, symphonies and
operas does not match survey results.
Questions about what people meant by "attending church" revealed that a
few were counting things other than attending worship-such as going to
weddings, funerals, committee meetings, Sunday school and choir
practice. One individual in Ashtabula County even said his attendance
consisted of mowing the church lawn on the previous Saturday. Being at
church for reasons other than worship "counts" as church attendance for
some people who answer poll questions. But these cases represent less
than 2 percent of all persons polled, and a large attendance gap
remains when they are removed. Why do other people misreport
attendance?
Clearly, poll data should not be taken at face value. Moreover, it
appears that poll results are not equal: different wording produces
significantly different results. Why does it matter? Because the image
of religion in America as exceptionally strong and stable has been at
least partially supported by poll data. Our research raises doubts
about that image. (For the full text of the article: "Did You Really Go
To Church This Week?")
http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=3D237
It makes good sense to lie about ones religious faith, epecially for
those in political life. Can you imagine an atheist campaigning and
quoting Bertrand Russell or Einstein on what they think of religion? No
way. It's better to quote New Testament scripture. And even those who
truly believe have no way of knowing if the person is being truthful.
When someone gets caught in the cookie jar, the first thing they do to
save themselves is to be quickly born again. And that is generally good
enough. It happens every day. Amen to that?
You must have a certain amount of definite belief before you have a
right to call yourself a Christian.
SEE:Why I Am Not A Christian
by Bertrand Russell
http://users.drew.edu/~jlenz/whynot.html
Albert Einstein on Religion
http://www.sacred-texts.com/aor/einstein/index.htm
If I was not so lazy and wanted to get rich quick, I would consider
politics or religion as a means to my end. There are more liars,
thieves and perverts in religion and government than in any other
profession. Anyone who doubts that is not in touch with reality.
When someone says that they read the Bible every day, ask them what
they read from today and ask them to explain the meaning of what they
read. You, if you know the text yourself, may find out that the person
doesn't know Numbers from Chronicles.
And ask them to explain some of the atrocities in the Bible and they
may argue that there are no atrocities in the good book.
Read: "Atrocities in the Bible"
http://www.geocities.com/closetatheist/dmatrocities.htm
Have them explain why G-d ordered the following:
From Numbers 31 1:54
31:9 And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives,
and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all
their flocks, and all their goods. They took the women and children
captives, and burnt all their cities.
31:10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their
goodly castles, with fire.
31:11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of
beasts.
31:12 And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto
Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the
children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by
Jordan near Jericho.
31:13 And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the
congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp
..
31:14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the
captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from
the battle.
What the Bible says about rape and abortion
Have ye saved all the women alive?
31:15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
31:16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel
of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor,
and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill
every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
Moses tells the Israelites to kill every male and all the non-virgin
females, but to keep the virgins for themselves.
Farshtaist? - You understand?
Is it wrong to commit adultery?
31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying
with him, keep alive for yourselves.
31:19 And do ye abide without the camp seven days: whosoever hath
killed any person, and whosoever hath touched any slain, purify both
yourselves and your captives on the third day, and on the seventh day.
31:20 And purify all your raiment, and all that is made of skins, and
all work of goats' hair, and all things made of wood.
31:21 And Eleazar the priest said unto the men of war which went to the
battle, This is the ordinance of the law which the LORD commanded
Moses.
Oy Vey ! Genug iz genug! - Enough is enough! Ich hob in drerd! - To
hell with it!
"I observe that a very large portion of the human race does not believe
in God and suffers no visible punishment in consequence. And if there
were a God, I think it very unlikely that he would have such an uneasy
vanity as to be offended by those who doubt his existence."
---- Bertrand Russell
Let us prey.
=B7 Dinesh D'Souza is the Rishwain Fellow at the Hoover Institution.
LOL. The Hoover Institute. What a fucking joke.
His new book, "The Enemy at Home: The Cultural Left and Its
Responsibility for 9/11,"
Except that bush was the person responsible, by any reasonable standard.
It's his job to defend us and he failed. That's the bottom line, despite
endless spin. Furthermore, the same sort of attack could occur again and
the bush administration has not taken credible steps to make sure that
they could prevent it.
--
"I condemn false prophets, I condemn the effort
to take away the power of rational decision, to
drain people of their free will--and a hell of a
lot of money in the bargain. Religions vary in
their degree of idiocy, but I reject them all.
For most people, religion is nothing more than a
substitute for a malfunctioning brain." --Gene Roddenberry
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| User: "Bill M" |
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| Title: Re: Article: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
21 Nov 2006 10:47:21 AM |
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There is a plentitude of objective verifiable evidence that no gods exist.
There is NO - NADA objective verifiable data proving that ANY gods exist.
"Raymond" <Bluerhymer@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1164121557.191648.52340@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
quibbler wrote:
In article <1164104948.326449.299170@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
j_peasemold_gruntfuttock@hotmail.com says...
It's time to abandon the mindlessly repeated mantra that religious
belief has been the greatest source of human conflict and violence.
It's time to stop lying about it being a mindless mantra, when it is, in
fact, the reality.
Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of
history.
About 40 billion people have lived and died on earth in all of recorded
history and of those who were killed, the overwhelming majority were
killed by someone who was a believer in some god. Therefore, we can
blame theism for the actions of theists in the same way that D'Souza
lamely blames atheism for everything done by atheists.
Shalom:
Most criminals follow a religion.
And most religions are criminal.
When asked about religious belief and practice, ordinary citizens lie.
And they lie about their faith to a greater degree then they lie about
their sex life, or political activity., and there's a large element
of hypocrisy involved in public debate involving citizens who
are not examining their own behavior as critically as they
examine the behavior of others. Unless and until we learn
to be honest with ourselves, can we expect our elected
leaders to have an integrity we lack?
"They lie about their faith to a greater degree then they lie about
their sex life, or political activity." The image of religion in
America as exceptionally strong and stable has been at least partially
supported by poll data. Research raises doubts about that image.
How do I know this? From several research projects involving an actual
head count of the number of people attending churches in areas of the
country where people were reporting high levels of attendance. For
example, researchers C. Kirk Hadaway, P. L. Marler and Mark Chaves
physically counted every person in every Protestant church in one Ohio
county and in every Catholic church in 18 dioceses. They found that, in
fact, only 20 percent of Protestants were actually in church on a given
Sunday morning, whereas 40 percent reported they had attended church
that Sunday. Likewise, they found that only 28 percent of Catholics
attended mass, while 50 percent reported doing so.
Subsequent studies have confirmed these findings. The interesting
question then follows. Why do people misrepresent their religious
activity? Or to put it more bluntly, why do they lie about their
faith? There is a well known phenomenon among social science
researchers that people tend to answer questions on the basis of what
they think the pollster wants to hear, or what they think the "correct"
answer ought to be. Hadaway and Marler put it this way:
Gallup asks, "Did you, yourself, happen to attend church or synagogue
in the last seven days?" Active church members who did not happen to
attend church last Saturday or Sunday are expected to say no in
response to Gallup's question. But this creates problems for people who
see themselves as committed church members and "weekly attenders."
Many have an internal rule that says, "I am a person who attends church
every week." Saying "No, I did not attend church" violates that
internal rule and identifies them, symbolically, as non churchgoers. On
the other hand, saying, "Yes, I went" is consistent with their internal
rule, counts them on the side of active churchgoers, is in line with
their usual behavior (including what they hope to do next week) and
affirms their support of the church.
Numerous studies show that people do not accurately report their
behavior to pollsters. Americans misreport how often they vote, how
much they give to charity and how frequently they use illegal drugs.
Their misreporting is in the expected direction: people report higher
than actual figures for voting and charitable giving, lower for illegal
drug use. People are not entirely accurate in their self-reports about
other areas as well. Males exaggerate their number of sexual partners;
university workers are not very honest about reporting how many
photocopies they make. Actual attendance at museums, symphonies and
operas does not match survey results.
Questions about what people meant by "attending church" revealed that a
few were counting things other than attending worship-such as going to
weddings, funerals, committee meetings, Sunday school and choir
practice. One individual in Ashtabula County even said his attendance
consisted of mowing the church lawn on the previous Saturday. Being at
church for reasons other than worship "counts" as church attendance for
some people who answer poll questions. But these cases represent less
than 2 percent of all persons polled, and a large attendance gap
remains when they are removed. Why do other people misreport
attendance?
Clearly, poll data should not be taken at face value. Moreover, it
appears that poll results are not equal: different wording produces
significantly different results. Why does it matter? Because the image
of religion in America as exceptionally strong and stable has been at
least partially supported by poll data. Our research raises doubts
about that image. (For the full text of the article: "Did You Really Go
To Church This Week?")
http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=237
It makes good sense to lie about ones religious faith, epecially for
those in political life. Can you imagine an atheist campaigning and
quoting Bertrand Russell or Einstein on what they think of religion? No
way. It's better to quote New Testament scripture. And even those who
truly believe have no way of knowing if the person is being truthful.
When someone gets caught in the cookie jar, the first thing they do to
save themselves is to be quickly born again. And that is generally good
enough. It happens every day. Amen to that?
You must have a certain amount of definite belief before you have a
right to call yourself a Christian.
SEE:Why I Am Not A Christian
by Bertrand Russell
http://users.drew.edu/~jlenz/whynot.html
Albert Einstein on Religion
http://www.sacred-texts.com/aor/einstein/index.htm
If I was not so lazy and wanted to get rich quick, I would consider
politics or religion as a means to my end. There are more liars,
thieves and perverts in religion and government than in any other
profession. Anyone who doubts that is not in touch with reality.
When someone says that they read the Bible every day, ask them what
they read from today and ask them to explain the meaning of what they
read. You, if you know the text yourself, may find out that the person
doesn't know Numbers from Chronicles.
And ask them to explain some of the atrocities in the Bible and they
may argue that there are no atrocities in the good book.
Read: "Atrocities in the Bible"
http://www.geocities.com/closetatheist/dmatrocities.htm
Have them explain why G-d ordered the following:
From Numbers 31 1:54
31:9 And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives,
and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all
their flocks, and all their goods. They took the women and children
captives, and burnt all their cities.
31:10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their
goodly castles, with fire.
31:11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of
beasts.
31:12 And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto
Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the
children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by
Jordan near Jericho.
31:13 And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the
congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp
..
31:14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the
captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from
the battle.
What the Bible says about rape and abortion
Have ye saved all the women alive?
31:15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
31:16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel
of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor,
and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill
every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
Moses tells the Israelites to kill every male and all the non-virgin
females, but to keep the virgins for themselves.
Farshtaist? - You understand?
Is it wrong to commit adultery?
31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying
with him, keep alive for yourselves.
31:19 And do ye abide without the camp seven days: whosoever hath
killed any person, and whosoever hath touched any slain, purify both
yourselves and your captives on the third day, and on the seventh day.
31:20 And purify all your raiment, and all that is made of skins, and
all work of goats' hair, and all things made of wood.
31:21 And Eleazar the priest said unto the men of war which went to the
battle, This is the ordinance of the law which the LORD commanded
Moses.
Oy Vey ! Genug iz genug! - Enough is enough! Ich hob in drerd! - To
hell with it!
"I observe that a very large portion of the human race does not believe
in God and suffers no visible punishment in consequence. And if there
were a God, I think it very unlikely that he would have such an uneasy
vanity as to be offended by those who doubt his existence."
---- Bertrand Russell
Let us prey.
· Dinesh D'Souza is the Rishwain Fellow at the Hoover Institution.
LOL. The Hoover Institute. What a fucking joke.
His new book, "The Enemy at Home: The Cultural Left and Its
Responsibility for 9/11,"
Except that bush was the person responsible, by any reasonable standard.
It's his job to defend us and he failed. That's the bottom line, despite
endless spin. Furthermore, the same sort of attack could occur again and
the bush administration has not taken credible steps to make sure that
they could prevent it.
--
"I condemn false prophets, I condemn the effort
to take away the power of rational decision, to
drain people of their free will--and a hell of a
lot of money in the bargain. Religions vary in
their degree of idiocy, but I reject them all.
For most people, religion is nothing more than a
substitute for a malfunctioning brain." --Gene Roddenberry
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Article: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
21 Nov 2006 06:12:42 AM |
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On 21 Nov 2006 02:29:08 -0800, "JPG"
<j_peasemold_gruntfuttock@hotmail.com> wrote:
- Refer: <1164104948.326449.299170@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1121/p09s01-coop.html
Same old crap which has been debunked ad nauseum, but I'll repost it
anyway for your amusement
Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of
history
By Dinesh D'Souza
RANCHO SANTA FE, CALIF. - In recent months, a spate of atheist books
have argued that religion represents, as "End of Faith" author Sam
Harris puts it, "the most potent source of human conflict, past and
present."
:
Boy, they are getting desperate!
That is a good sign.
They are on the run if they have to scrape the bottom of their barrel
that hard.
--
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Article: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind themass murders of history |
21 Nov 2006 08:25:47 AM |
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On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 02:29:08 -0800, JPG wrote:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1121/p09s01-coop.html
Same old crap which has been debunked ad nauseum, but I'll repost it
anyway for your amusement
Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of
history
Then shouldn't they kiss our asses before we get *****?
<sheesh>
--
Mark K. Bilbo
------------------------------------------------------------
"As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned
and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and
the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong
its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until
all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic
is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety than ever
before, even in the midst of war. God grant that my suspicions
may prove groundless." -Abraham Lincoln
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| User: "Peter Ashby" |
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| Title: Re: Article: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
21 Nov 2006 10:14:20 AM |
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Mark K. Bilbo <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 02:29:08 -0800, JPG wrote:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1121/p09s01-coop.html
Same old crap which has been debunked ad nauseum, but I'll repost it
anyway for your amusement
Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of
history
Then shouldn't they kiss our asses before we get *****?
<sheesh>
Nah, its a polemic designed the innoculate the electorate to never elect
an atheist. Yet another poisoned drip.
Peter
--
Add my middle initial to email me. It has become attached to a country
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Article: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind themass murders of history |
21 Nov 2006 07:46:01 PM |
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On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 16:14:20 +0000, Peter Ashby wrote:
Mark K. Bilbo <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 02:29:08 -0800, JPG wrote:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1121/p09s01-coop.html
Same old crap which has been debunked ad nauseum, but I'll repost it
anyway for your amusement
Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of
history
Then shouldn't they kiss our asses before we get *****?
<sheesh>
Nah, its a polemic designed the innoculate the electorate to never elect
an atheist. Yet another poisoned drip.
Ah, like this past election season?
"Vote for Democrats and you will die! Die I say! DIE! DIE! DIE!"
--
Mark K. Bilbo
------------------------------------------------------------
"...otherwise, we're looking at the potential of this kind
of world:.... a world in which oil reserves are controlled
by radicals in order to extract blackmail from the West..."
-George Bush
Wait... oil reserves?
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