Religions > Atheism > As Americans are slowly becoming less religious, are religious Americans slowly becoming nuttier?
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"August Pamplona" |
| Date: |
15 Aug 2003 02:17:17 PM |
| Object: |
As Americans are slowly becoming less religious, are religious Americans slowly becoming nuttier? |
New York Times article on how religious belief in the U.S.A. seems
to be becoming more mystical (extreme and irrational?) at
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/15/opinion/15KRIS.html
August Pamplona
P.S. Reproduced below.
--
"No, jew. Your jew opinion doesn't matter no matter what, jew. Your
writings deserve no comprehension, merely scorn, jew. You are jew."
-Lysis on m.f.w.
a.a. # 1811 apatriot #20 Eater of smut
To email replace 'necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale' with
'cosmicaug'
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August 15, 2003
OP-ED COLUMNIST
Believe It, or Not
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Today marks the Roman Catholics' Feast of the Assumption, honoring the
moment that they believe God brought the Virgin Mary into Heaven. So
here's a fact appropriate for the day: Americans are three times as
likely to believe in the Virgin Birth of Jesus (83 percent) as in
evolution (28 percent).
So this day is an opportunity to look at perhaps the most fundamental
divide between America and the rest of the industrialized world: faith.
Religion remains central to American life, and is getting more so, in a
way that is true of no other industrialized country, with the possible
exception of South Korea.
Americans believe, 58 percent to 40 percent, that it is necessary to
believe in God to be moral. In contrast, other developed countries
overwhelmingly believe that it is not necessary. In France, only 13
percent agree with the U.S. view. (For details on the polls cited in
this column, go to www.nytimes.com/kristofresponds.)
The faith in the Virgin Birth reflects the way American Christianity is
becoming less intellectual and more mystical over time. The percentage
of Americans who believe in the Virgin Birth actually rose five points
in the latest poll.
My grandfather was fairly typical of his generation: A devout and active
Presbyterian elder, he nonetheless believed firmly in evolution and
regarded the Virgin Birth as a pious legend. Those kinds of mainline
Christians are vanishing, replaced by evangelicals. Since 1960, the
number of Pentecostalists has increased fourfold, while the number of
Episcopalians has dropped almost in half.
The result is a gulf not only between America and the rest of the
industrialized world, but a growing split at home as well. One of the
most poisonous divides is the one between intellectual and religious
America.
Some liberals wear T-shirts declaring, "So Many Right-Wing Christians .
.. . So Few Lions." On the other side, there are attitudes like those on
a Web site, dutyisours.com/gwbush.htm, explaining the 2000 election this
way:
"God defeated armies of Philistines and others with confusion. Dimpled
and hanging chads may also be because of God's intervention on those who
were voting incorrectly. Why is GW Bush our president? It was God's
choice."
The Virgin Mary is an interesting prism through which to examine
America's emphasis on faith because most Biblical scholars regard the
evidence for the Virgin Birth, and for Mary's assumption into Heaven
(which was proclaimed as Catholic dogma only in 1950), as so shaky that
it pretty much has to be a leap of faith. As the Catholic theologian
Hans Küng puts it in "On Being a Christian," the Virgin Birth is a
"collection of largely uncertain, mutually contradictory, strongly
legendary" narratives, an echo of virgin birth myths that were
widespread in many parts of the ancient world.
Jaroslav Pelikan, the great Yale historian and theologian, says in his
book "Mary Through the Centuries" that the earliest references to Mary
(like Mark's gospel, the first to be written, or Paul's letter to the
Galatians) don't mention anything unusual about the conception of Jesus.
The Gospels of Matthew and Luke do say Mary was a virgin, but internal
evidence suggests that that part of Luke, in particular, may have been
added later by someone else (it is written, for example, in a different
kind of Greek than the rest of that gospel).
Yet despite the lack of scientific or historical evidence, and despite
the doubts of Biblical scholars, America is so pious that not only do 91
percent of Christians say they believe in the Virgin Birth, but so do an
astonishing 47 percent of U.S. non-Christians.
I'm not denigrating anyone's beliefs. And I don't pretend to know why
America is so much more infused with religious faith than the rest of
the world. But I do think that we're in the middle of another religious
Great Awakening, and that while this may bring spiritual comfort to
many, it will also mean a growing polarization within our society.
But mostly, I'm troubled by the way the great intellectual traditions of
Catholic and Protestant churches alike are withering, leaving the
scholarly and religious worlds increasingly antagonistic. I worry partly
because of the time I've spent with self-satisfied and unquestioning
mullahs and imams, for the Islamic world is in crisis today in large
part because of a similar drift away from a rich intellectual tradition
and toward the mystical. The heart is a wonderful organ, but so is the
brain.
Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company
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| User: "Boikat" |
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| Title: Re: 72% of Americans are creationists!? |
23 Aug 2003 07:37:58 PM |
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"Roadrunner" <pegasus@privat.utfors.se> wrote in message
news:0iT1b.25356$dP1.59901@newsc.telia.net...
"xyzzy" <xyzzy@xyzzy.com> wrote in message news:3f41a7b1.33661993@news...
"Lane Lewis" <lanejlewis@hotmail.com> wrote:
One of the reasons we
cannot teach religion in public schools is that everyone would have a
right
to have their version taught.
Clarification: It has nothing to do with the *inconvenience* of
teaching many versions. The reason various creation myths should not
be taught as science is, well, that they are all myths and not
science.
So what is evolutionism doing in science class??
The theory of evolution is science, but being a troll, you already know
that.
Boikat
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| User: "David Wise" |
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| Title: Re: 72% of Americans are creationists!? |
09 Sep 2003 02:44:00 PM |
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"Roadrunner" <pegasus@privat.utfors.se> wrote in message news:<0iT1b.25356$dP1.59901@newsc.telia.net>...
"xyzzy" <xyzzy@xyzzy.com> wrote in message news:3f41a7b1.33661993@news...
"Lane Lewis" <lanejlewis@hotmail.com> wrote:
One of the reasons we
cannot teach religion in public schools is that everyone would have a
right
to have their version taught.
Clarification: It has nothing to do with the *inconvenience* of
teaching many versions. The reason various creation myths should not
be taught as science is, well, that they are all myths and not
science.
So what is evolutionism doing in science class??
Well certainly evolutionISM does not belong in science class.
However, evolution and evolutionary theory DOES MOST DEFINITELY belong
in science class.
So why are you dragging in evolutionISM? EvolutionISM has about as
much to do with evolution as "creation science" has to do with
creation -- very little!
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| User: "EAC" |
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| Title: Re: 72% of Americans are creationists!? |
24 Aug 2003 04:02:43 PM |
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(xyzzy) wrote in message news:<3f41a7b1.33661993@news>...
The reason various creation myths should not
be taught as science is, well, that they are all myths and not
science.
It should be noted a long time ago, the knowledge of a flat earth is
considered as a science, and if one ever said otherwise, the
scientists will be upset and defy it with all scientifical knowledges
that they got.
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| User: "Chris Ho-Stuart" |
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| Title: Re: 72% of Americans are creationists!? |
24 Aug 2003 04:46:19 PM |
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In talk.origins EAC <digicross@hotmail.com> wrote:
xyzzy@xyzzy.com (xyzzy) wrote in message news:<3f41a7b1.33661993@news>...
The reason various creation myths should not
be taught as science is, well, that they are all myths and not
science.
It should be noted a long time ago, the knowledge of a flat earth is
considered as a science, and if one ever said otherwise, the
scientists will be upset and defy it with all scientifical knowledges
that they got.
No. The flat earth model has never been considered as science.
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| User: "Dean Chesterman" |
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| Title: Re:Chez Watt: 72% of Americans are creationists!? |
27 Aug 2003 07:18:27 AM |
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Passed by a large sign outside a church the other day that said "Jesus
is the answer". I wondered, what was the question - "what do you say if
you hit your thumb with a hammer?"
Works for me. But it's more polite to use his full name.
What does the "H" stand for?
Haploid.
This got coffee sprayed on the monitor and a frown from my ex-catholic /
agnostic wife!
Dean Chesterman
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| User: "John Wilkins" |
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| Title: Re: Chez Watt: 72% of Americans are creationists!? |
27 Aug 2003 06:21:29 PM |
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Dean Chesterman <dean.chesterman@shaw.ca> wrote:
Passed by a large sign outside a church the other day that said "Jesus
is the answer". I wondered, what was the question - "what do you say if
you hit your thumb with a hammer?"
Works for me. But it's more polite to use his full name.
What does the "H" stand for?
Haploid.
This got coffee sprayed on the monitor and a frown from my ex-catholic /
agnostic wife!
Dean Chesterman
Has anyone suggested haplodiploid? It might explain why Mary is the
Queen of Heaven...
--
John Wilkins - wilkins.id.au
[I]magine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, "...interesting
hole I find myself in - fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? ...
must have been made to have me in it." Douglas Adams, Salmon of Doubt
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| User: "Earle Jones" |
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| Title: Re: Chez Watt: 72% of Americans are creationists!? |
28 Aug 2003 03:51:50 PM |
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In article <3F4CA16C.1010708@shaw.ca>,
Dean Chesterman <dean.chesterman@shaw.ca> wrote:
Passed by a large sign outside a church the other day that said "Jesus
is the answer". I wondered, what was the question - "what do you say if
you hit your thumb with a hammer?"
Works for me. But it's more polite to use his full name.
What does the "H" stand for?
Haploid.
*
I thought it was "Harold".
"Our father who art in heaven,
Harold be thy name..."
earle
*
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| User: "John Wilkins" |
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| Title: Re: Chez Watt: 72% of Americans are creationists!? |
28 Aug 2003 07:10:59 PM |
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Earle Jones <earle.jones@comcast.net> wrote:
In article <3F4CA16C.1010708@shaw.ca>,
Dean Chesterman <dean.chesterman@shaw.ca> wrote:
Passed by a large sign outside a church the other day that said "Jesus
is the answer". I wondered, what was the question - "what do you say if
you hit your thumb with a hammer?"
Works for me. But it's more polite to use his full name.
What does the "H" stand for?
Haploid.
*
I thought it was "Harold".
"Our father who art in heaven,
Harold be thy name..."
earle
*
Middle names are, I'm told by traditionalists, supposed to be the family
name of the mother...
--
John Wilkins - wilkins.id.au
[I]magine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, "...interesting
hole I find myself in - fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? ...
must have been made to have me in it." Douglas Adams, Salmon of Doubt
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| User: "Alvin" |
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| Title: Re: 72% of Americans are creationists!? (was Re: As Americans are slowly becoming less religious, are religious Americans slowly becoming nuttier?) |
16 Aug 2003 05:28:04 PM |
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And the worst part of it is that the minds of their children are
corrupted with this crap, just like the islamics torture their own
kids with their own brand of hate. Its wonderful to live in a country
with civil rights, only the chidlren in America have no rights at
all, we are all free to mentally abuse children with dogmas of one
hideous god or another. And we see the fruit: they all grow up
hating each other to death. I doubt this is what the founding fathers
had in mind. Heck, I doubt it is what God had in mind, if he had been
so kind as to have existed in the first place.
Al
New York Times article on how religious belief in the U.S.A. seems
to be becoming more mystical (extreme and irrational?) at
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/15/opinion/15KRIS.html
If the figure of 28% belief in evolution is correct, then I have one
thing to say:-
Hang your collective heads in shame, America!
Surely that figure is the highest creationist/non-creationist ratio
outside of the arab world? Unless anyone can show different?
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| User: "Baghdad Bob" |
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| Title: Re: 72% of Americans are creationists!? (was Re: As Americans are slowly becoming less religious, are religious Americans slowly becoming nuttier?) |
18 Aug 2003 06:41:31 AM |
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"Alvin" <authenticatheist@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2bd52730.0308161428.1d5d85cb@posting.google.com...
And the worst part of it is that the minds of their children are
corrupted with this crap, just like the islamics torture their own
kids with their own brand of hate. Its wonderful to live in a country
with civil rights, only the chidlren in America have no rights at
all, we are all free to mentally abuse children with dogmas of one
hideous god or another. And we see the fruit: they all grow up
hating each other to death. I doubt this is what the founding fathers
had in mind. Heck, I doubt it is what God had in mind, if he had been
so kind as to have existed in the first place.
I would say that the right of parents to raise children how they want is
*exactly* what the founders had in mind. What has changed, is that now the
state has interposed itself and become the foster-parent of our children.
And they're getting greedier each day, requiring kids to start school at
younger ages. Pretty soon, kids will just be taken from the delivery room
directly to head start.
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| User: "Alvin" |
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| Title: Re: 72% of Americans are creationists!? (was Re: As Americans are slowly becoming less religious, are religious Americans slowly becoming nuttier?) |
19 Aug 2003 02:12:14 AM |
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"Baghdad Bob" <not@home.com> wrote in message news:<LX20b.17177$E9.342320@twister.southeast.rr.com>...
"Alvin" <authenticatheist@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2bd52730.0308161428.1d5d85cb@posting.google.com...
And the worst part of it is that the minds of their children are
corrupted with this crap, just like the islamics torture their own
kids with their own brand of hate. Its wonderful to live in a country
with civil rights, only the chidlren in America have no rights at
all, we are all free to mentally abuse children with dogmas of one
hideous god or another. And we see the fruit: they all grow up
hating each other to death. I doubt this is what the founding fathers
had in mind. Heck, I doubt it is what God had in mind, if he had been
so kind as to have existed in the first place.
I would say that the right of parents to raise children how they want is
*exactly* what the founders had in mind.
I recall words like all men are created equal and endowed with certain
inalienable rights...etc. I think the word 'men' in that phrase, is
properly interpreted to include women and children, would you not
agree?
And if so, is it not true then that you cannot simply raise your
chilren 'how you want' if your manner of raising them nullifies their
inalienable rights?
Could somebody please clarify? Perhaps I am mistaken in my observation
that children have inalienable rights. Do children in the USA have
any rights at all and if so, please enumerate them.
Al
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| User: "Alvin" |
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| Title: Re: 72% of Americans are creationists!? (was Re: As Americans are slowly becoming less religious, are religious Americans slowly becoming nuttier?) |
19 Aug 2003 06:21:26 PM |
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"Baghdad Bob" <not@home.com> wrote in message news:<kfn0b.2633$J16.88430@twister.southeast.rr.com>...
"Alvin" <authenticatheist@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2bd52730.0308182312.1f1718d8@posting.google.com...
"Baghdad Bob" <not@home.com> wrote in message
news:<LX20b.17177$E9.342320@twister.southeast.rr.com>...
"Alvin" <authenticatheist@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2bd52730.0308161428.1d5d85cb@posting.google.com...
<snip>
I would say that the right of parents to raise children how they want is
*exactly* what the founders had in mind.
I recall words like all men are created equal and endowed with certain
inalienable rights...etc. I think the word 'men' in that phrase, is
properly interpreted to include women and children, would you not
agree?
And if so, is it not true then that you cannot simply raise your
chilren 'how you want' if your manner of raising them nullifies their
inalienable rights?
Could somebody please clarify? Perhaps I am mistaken in my observation
that children have inalienable rights. Do children in the USA have
any rights at all and if so, please enumerate them.
Yes, children have rights, atltough they lack all the rights of adults.
Parents have rights too. Among those rights are the right to exercise
religion. Your premise that a parent is abusing his child because he raises
it in a manner which you don't approve of is flawed.
That would indeed be a flawed argument, however, it is not the
argument I made. The postulation made is that a parent is abusing his
child if he is subbrogating the child's inalienable rights. So, it is
a matter of enumerating a childs inalienable rights, and then
observing if an enforcement, upon an otherwise defensless child, of a
parents belief system under threat of physical and psychological
punishment is an abridgment of a child's inalienable rights.
So what are a childs rights after all? We can start with the
fundamental rights enumerated in the declaration of independence: the
right to life, the right to liberty, and the right to the pursuit of
happiness. Can we reach consensus that these rights are indeed
guaranteed to a child by our consitution?
I don't like the fact
that so many people choose to live a life of superstition, but I don't think
that your claim that teaching kids religion constitutes abuse. I prefer
that parents teach their children what they think is best rather than have
the government decide how parents must raise their kids.
And so if a parent, believing himself to be directed by God, is
teaching his children to stap on backpacks of bombs in the effort to
blow up your children, you have no problem with that? Therefore there
must be a legal line drawn somewhere as to what a parent can teach his
child. I think such lines can be rationally defined, and indeed, must
be defined if a child is to have his rights protected as our
forefathers intended.
Al
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| User: "Alvin" |
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| Title: Re: 72% of Americans are creationists!? (was Re: As Americans are slowly becoming less religious, are religious Americans slowly becoming nuttier?) |
20 Aug 2003 08:41:36 PM |
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"santa" <santa@southpole.com> wrote in message
Nobody, even an American has inalienable rights.
Quoting from the Declaration of Independence:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created
equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable
Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of
Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted
among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the
governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive
of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish
it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such
principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall
seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
My intrepretation of this is that this country is founded on a tenet
that all people are born with, among other rights, a right to life, a
right to liberty, and a right to the pursuit of happiness. In
addition to these enumerated rights, all people have a right to
change their government in order to more perfectly secure their
unalienable rights.
In America, we have the mechanisms to change our government. The only
questions to be resolved is whether or not it should be changed and if
so, how it should be changed.
Children rights? I don't think so. One of you should try telling that to the
poor little sods that got bombed out of existence in Iraq. They were so
important nobody could be bothered to even count them.
They too were born with these same unalienable rights. At the
regretful cost of some of their young lives, there now exists in the
Middle East, for the first time in recorded history, a chance for
individual liberty to exist and to flourish endlessly, as it does here
in the United States, albeit only for those citizens who are not
children.
Al
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| User: "John Thomas Grisham" |
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| Title: Re: 72% of Americans are creationists!? (was Re: As Americans are slowly becoming less religious, are religious Americans slowly becoming nuttier?) |
18 Aug 2003 04:01:54 PM |
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Craig McDonald <rcd@craigmcdonald.com> wrote in message news:<pf5rjv8kpnn0k9b77uv7rhqv1lekngjjd4@4ax.com>...
On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 19:17:17 GMT, "August Pamplona"
<necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale@mail.com> wrote:
New York Times article on how religious belief in the U.S.A. seems
to be becoming more mystical (extreme and irrational?) at
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/15/opinion/15KRIS.html
August Pamplona
P.S. Reproduced below.
If the figure of 28% belief in evolution is correct, then I have one
thing to say:-
Hang your collective heads in shame, America!
Surely that figure is the highest creationist/non-creationist ratio
outside of the arab world? Unless anyone can show different?
Suddenly www.dinosauradventureland.com seems more scary than funny.
Red Celt
aa#883
--
Boy, I've never seen an issue so divisive. It's like a civil war,
isn't it? Even amongst my friends, who are all very intelligent
people, they are totally divided on abortion. Some of my friends, for
instance, think these pro-life people are annoying idiots. Others of
my friends think these pro-life people are evil fucks.
How are we going to come to a consensus?
You want to hear the arguments around my house.
"They're annoying!"
Of Course, they're annoying! The Reagan Administration used them to
distract the Press when he altered the unemployment criteria to ignore
those unemployed (for over 39 weeks) and altered the Consumer Price
Index to ignore inflation and prices. So, their very purpose is to be
annoying so their political allies can get away with screwing up the
country without serious media attention.
"They're idiots!"
Of Course, they're idiots! They get nothing for being annoying. Over
20 years later, they've gotten nothing but lip service from their
political allies. They're a joke in the Halls of Government and they
don't even know it.
"They're evil!"
They're too stupid to be evil. Sure, they oppose democracy, but most
special interests do that. Are the oil companies evil? Are the power
companies evil? Sure, the oil companies and power companies are evil,
but pro-lifers aren't in that league... there's no money in it!
"They're fucks!"
What's that suppose to mean, they reproduce? I have no expectation to
the contrary, but I hardly see how it's relevent. They're shits...
pissers and moaners, as well. I'm sure they can demonstrate any number
of bodily functions.
Brothers, sisters come together! Can't we once just join hands and
think of them as evil annoying idiot fucks?
-- the late great Bill Hicks
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: 72% of Americans are creationists!? (was Re: As Americans are slowly becoming less religious, are religious Americans slowly becoming nuttier?) |
16 Aug 2003 03:22:29 AM |
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Craig McDonald <rcd@craigmcdonald.com> wrote in message news:<pf5rjv8kpnn0k9b77uv7rhqv1lekngjjd4@4ax.com>...
On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 19:17:17 GMT, "August Pamplona"
<necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale@mail.com> wrote:
New York Times article on how religious belief in the U.S.A. seems
to be becoming more mystical (extreme and irrational?) at
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/15/opinion/15KRIS.html
August Pamplona
P.S. Reproduced below.
If the figure of 28% belief in evolution is correct, then I have one
thing to say:-
Hang your collective heads in shame, America!
Surely that figure is the highest creationist/non-creationist ratio
outside of the arab world? Unless anyone can show different?
Suddenly www.dinosauradventureland.com seems more scary than funny.
Try http://www.pfaw.org/issues/education/creationism-poll.pdf
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl1481021263d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=98asku%24qfl%241%40sshuraac-i-1.production.compuserve.com
Red Celt
aa#883
--
Boy, I've never seen an issue so divisive. It's like a civil war,
isn't it? Even amongst my friends, who are all very intelligent
people, they are totally divided on abortion. Some of my friends, for
instance, think these pro-life people are annoying idiots. Others of
my friends think these pro-life people are evil fucks.
How are we going to come to a consensus?
You want to hear the arguments around my house.
"They're annoying!"
"They're idiots!"
"They're evil!"
"They're fucks!"
Brothers, sisters come together! Can't we once just join hands and
think of them as evil annoying idiot fucks?
-- the late great Bill Hicks
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| User: "Sean C" |
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| Title: Re: 72% of Americans are creationists!? (was Re: As Americans are slowly becoming less religious, are religious Americans slowly becoming nuttier?) |
16 Aug 2003 07:41:56 PM |
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In article <e1e30450.0308161239.52cf7fb1@posting.google.com>, Budikka
<budikka1@netscape.net> wrote:
Craig McDonald <rcd@craigmcdonald.com> wrote
news:<pf5rjv8kpnn0k9b77uv7rhqv1lekngjjd4@4ax.com>...
On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 19:17:17 GMT, "August Pamplona"
<necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale@mail.com> wrote:
New York Times article on how religious belief in the U.S.A. seems
to be becoming more mystical (extreme and irrational?) at
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/15/opinion/15KRIS.html
I refuse to deal with the NYT since they require you to basically sell
them your firstborn before you can even look at one article on their
site. Like we don't get enough trash in our mailbox already!
Respectfully, and just as an aside, it is not that much of a hassle to
sign up and I never received any spam from doing so, nor from other
papers like the LA Times or the Guardian. It's a good resource for some
things and definitely worth it.
Sean C
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
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| User: "Craig McDonald" |
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| Title: Re: 72% of Americans are creationists!? (was Re: As Americans are slowly becoming less religious, are religious Americans slowly becoming nuttier?) |
16 Aug 2003 03:55:54 PM |
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On 16 Aug 2003 13:39:42 -0700, (Budikka) wrote:
<snip>
And since the USA's population is, what, 4% of the world's, do you
really think that the rest of the world lies awake at night, restless
over what the USA thinks?
Well, a certain proportion of the citizens of Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran,
Libya and N.Korea might ;)
Any country with a nuclear arsenal (and known to use them) and a
penchant for invading other countries can be deemed of concern to the
other nations of the planet. Especially when the Commander in Chief is
George W Bush.
Even if the entire population of the planet
believed in the same God, it still wouldn't make the existence of a
god a fact.
A look at a Harris Poll from last January reveals how confused people
are:
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/news/allnewsbydate.asp?NewsID=588
90% believe in God, but only 68% in the Devil! 51% believe in ghosts,
31% in astrology, 27% in reincarnation. Only 1% expect to go to Hell,
and 1% of Christians do not believe in God!
None of those facts are inherently contradictory... with the possible
exception of the 1% of christian atheists :)
Go figure!
I seem to have spent all my adult life trying to figure the rest of
the human race... which led directly to my fascination with why the
god-meme is still prevalent 2000 years after a religious leader (who
may or may not have existed) allegedly got nailed to a cross/tree for
trying to preach that people should be nice to each other.
Red Celt
aa#883
--
Boy, I've never seen an issue so divisive. It's like a civil war,
isn't it? Even amongst my friends, who are all very intelligent
people, they are totally divided on abortion. Some of my friends, for
instance, think these pro-life people are annoying idiots. Others of
my friends think these pro-life people are evil fucks.
How are we going to come to a consensus?
You want to hear the arguments around my house.
"They're annoying!"
"They're idiots!"
"They're evil!"
"They're fucks!"
Brothers, sisters come together! Can't we once just join hands and
think of them as evil annoying idiot fucks?
-- the late great Bill Hicks
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: 72% of Americans are creationists!? (was Re: As Americans areslowly becoming less religious, are religious Americans slowly becoming nuttier?) |
16 Aug 2003 04:01:53 PM |
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Craig McDonald wrote:
On 16 Aug 2003 13:39:42 -0700, (Budikka) wrote:
<snip>
And since the USA's population is, what, 4% of the world's, do you
really think that the rest of the world lies awake at night, restless
over what the USA thinks?
Well, a certain proportion of the citizens of Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran,
Libya and N.Korea might ;)
Any country with a nuclear arsenal (and known to use them) and a
penchant for invading other countries can be deemed of concern to the
other nations of the planet. Especially when the Commander in Chief is
George W Bush.
Good. We want them to worry about us.
--
Fred Stone
Conquering the Galaxy since 2003
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| User: "Sean C" |
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| Title: Re: 72% of Americans are creationists!? (was Re: As Americans are slowly becoming less religious, are religious Americans slowly becoming nuttier?) |
16 Aug 2003 07:45:53 PM |
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In article <3F3E9BC1.3000200@earthling.com>, Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
Craig McDonald wrote:
On 16 Aug 2003 13:39:42 -0700, (Budikka) wrote:
<snip>
And since the USA's population is, what, 4% of the world's, do you
really think that the rest of the world lies awake at night, restless
over what the USA thinks?
Well, a certain proportion of the citizens of Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran,
Libya and N.Korea might ;)
Any country with a nuclear arsenal (and known to use them) and a
penchant for invading other countries can be deemed of concern to the
other nations of the planet. Especially when the Commander in Chief is
George W Bush.
Good. We want them to worry about us.
Which is the problem with conservatives: you see everyone "out there"
as the enemy who needs to be kept in fear. I highly doubt N Korea or
anyone else is looking to start a war with the US, especially after the
drubbing the Iraqi army just received, so hopely you can now take less
valium and get a good night's sleep for a change.
Sean C
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: 72% of Americans are creationists!? (was Re: As Americans are slowly becoming less religious, are religious Americans slowly becoming nuttier?) |
17 Aug 2003 08:28:43 PM |
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On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 21:31:05 -0400, The Fairly Unbalanced Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthlout.com> posted in alt.atheism:
Hopefully you're right, but I don't think I'll bet the future of the US
on it.
Betting the future of the US on unilaterally invading any country that
strikes the leader's fancy is a sucker's bet.
Unfortunately the suckers are us.
--
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: 72% of Americans are creationists!? (was Re: As Americans areslowly becoming less religious, are religious Americans slowly becoming nuttier?) |
17 Aug 2003 11:07:08 PM |
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Al Klein wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 21:31:05 -0400, The Fairly Unbalanced Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthlout.com> posted in alt.atheism:
Hopefully you're right, but I don't think I'll bet the future of the US
on it.
Betting the future of the US on unilaterally invading any country that
strikes the leader's fancy is a sucker's bet.
You really like those strawmen, don't you, Al?
Unfortunately the suckers are us.
The sucker is you, Al.
--
Fred Stone
Conquering the Galaxy since 2003
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| User: "Craig McDonald" |
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| Title: Re: 72% of Americans are creationists!? (was Re: As Americans are slowly becoming less religious, are religious Americans slowly becoming nuttier?) |
16 Aug 2003 04:51:27 PM |
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On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 17:01:53 -0400, Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
Craig McDonald wrote:
On 16 Aug 2003 13:39:42 -0700, (Budikka) wrote:
<snip>
And since the USA's population is, what, 4% of the world's, do you
really think that the rest of the world lies awake at night, restless
over what the USA thinks?
Well, a certain proportion of the citizens of Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran,
Libya and N.Korea might ;)
Any country with a nuclear arsenal (and known to use them) and a
penchant for invading other countries can be deemed of concern to the
other nations of the planet. Especially when the Commander in Chief is
George W Bush.
Good. We want them to worry about us.
Them = The rest of the world?
Strange concept.
Red Celt
aa#883
--
Boy, I've never seen an issue so divisive. It's like a civil war,
isn't it? Even amongst my friends, who are all very intelligent
people, they are totally divided on abortion. Some of my friends, for
instance, think these pro-life people are annoying idiots. Others of
my friends think these pro-life people are evil fucks.
How are we going to come to a consensus?
You want to hear the arguments around my house.
"They're annoying!"
"They're idiots!"
"They're evil!"
"They're fucks!"
Brothers, sisters come together! Can't we once just join hands and
think of them as evil annoying idiot fucks?
-- the late great Bill Hicks
.
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: 72% of Americans are creationists!? (was Re: As Americans are slowly becoming less religious, are religious Americans slowly becoming nuttier?) |
16 Aug 2003 05:42:58 PM |
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On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 18:25:31 -0400 in alt.atheism, The Fairly
Unbalanced Fred Stone (The Fairly Unbalanced Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthlout.com>) said, directing the reply to alt.atheism
Craig McDonald wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 17:01:53 -0400, Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
Craig McDonald wrote:
On 16 Aug 2003 13:39:42 -0700, (Budikka) wrote:
<snip>
And since the USA's population is, what, 4% of the world's, do you
really think that the rest of the world lies awake at night, restless
over what the USA thinks?
Well, a certain proportion of the citizens of Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran,
Libya and N.Korea might ;)
Any country with a nuclear arsenal (and known to use them) and a
penchant for invading other countries can be deemed of concern to the
other nations of the planet. Especially when the Commander in Chief is
George W Bush.
Good. We want them to worry about us.
Them = The rest of the world?
Strange concept.
Well, of course our enemies should worry more than our friends.
bearing in mind that countries don't have friends, just interests.
--
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
- Attrib: Pauline Reage.
Inexpensive VHS & other video to CD/DVD conversion?
See: <http://www.Video2CD.com>. 35.00 gets your video on DVD.
all posts to this email address are automatically deleted without being read.
** atheist poster child #1 **
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| User: "Craig McDonald" |
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| Title: Re: 72% of Americans are creationists!? (was Re: As Americans are slowly becoming less religious, are religious Americans slowly becoming nuttier?) |
16 Aug 2003 05:45:53 PM |
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On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 23:42:58 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 18:25:31 -0400 in alt.atheism, The Fairly
Unbalanced Fred Stone (The Fairly Unbalanced Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthlout.com>) said, directing the reply to alt.atheism
<snip>
Well, of course our enemies should worry more than our friends.
bearing in mind that countries don't have friends, just interests.
And interests have a habit of changing.
Red Celt
aa#883
--
Boy, I've never seen an issue so divisive. It's like a civil war,
isn't it? Even amongst my friends, who are all very intelligent
people, they are totally divided on abortion. Some of my friends, for
instance, think these pro-life people are annoying idiots. Others of
my friends think these pro-life people are evil fucks.
How are we going to come to a consensus?
You want to hear the arguments around my house.
"They're annoying!"
"They're idiots!"
"They're evil!"
"They're fucks!"
Brothers, sisters come together! Can't we once just join hands and
think of them as evil annoying idiot fucks?
-- the late great Bill Hicks
.
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: 72% of Americans are creationists!? (was Re: As Americans are slowly becoming less religious, are religious Americans slowly becoming nuttier?) |
16 Aug 2003 06:17:02 PM |
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On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 23:45:53 +0100 in alt.atheism, Craig McDonald
(Craig McDonald <rcd@craigmcdonald.com>) said, directing the reply to
alt.atheism
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 23:42:58 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 18:25:31 -0400 in alt.atheism, The Fairly
Unbalanced Fred Stone (The Fairly Unbalanced Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthlout.com>) said, directing the reply to alt.atheism
<snip>
Well, of course our enemies should worry more than our friends.
bearing in mind that countries don't have friends, just interests.
And interests have a habit of changing.
Indeed.
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| User: "The Fairly Unbalanced Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: 72% of Americans are creationists!? (was Re: As Americans areslowly becoming less religious, are religious Americans slowly becoming nuttier?) |
16 Aug 2003 06:24:26 PM |
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Craig McDonald wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 23:42:58 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 18:25:31 -0400 in alt.atheism, The Fairly
Unbalanced Fred Stone (The Fairly Unbalanced Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthlout.com>) said, directing the reply to alt.atheism
<snip>
Well, of course our enemies should worry more than our friends.
bearing in mind that countries don't have friends, just interests.
And interests have a habit of changing.
And we have the attention span of a hyperactive three-year-old.
--
Fred Stone
Conquering the Galaxy since 2003
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| User: "Craig McDonald" |
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| Title: Re: 72% of Americans are creationists!? (was Re: As Americans are slowly becoming less religious, are religious Americans slowly becoming nuttier?) |
16 Aug 2003 05:41:34 PM |
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On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 18:25:31 -0400, The Fairly Unbalanced Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthlout.com> wrote:
<snip>
Good. We want them to worry about us.
Them = The rest of the world?
Strange concept.
Well, of course our enemies should worry more than our friends.
Unfortunately, nuclear winters don't discern friends from foe.
Red Celt
aa#883
--
Boy, I've never seen an issue so divisive. It's like a civil war,
isn't it? Even amongst my friends, who are all very intelligent
people, they are totally divided on abortion. Some of my friends, for
instance, think these pro-life people are annoying idiots. Others of
my friends think these pro-life people are evil fucks.
How are we going to come to a consensus?
You want to hear the arguments around my house.
"They're annoying!"
"They're idiots!"
"They're evil!"
"They're fucks!"
Brothers, sisters come together! Can't we once just join hands and
think of them as evil annoying idiot fucks?
-- the late great Bill Hicks
.
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| User: "Craig McDonald" |
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| Title: Re: 72% of Americans are creationists!? (was Re: As Americans are slowly becoming less religious, are religious Americans slowly becoming nuttier?) |
16 Aug 2003 07:18:06 PM |
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On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 19:18:21 -0400, The Fairly Unbalanced Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthlout.com> wrote:
Craig McDonald wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 18:25:31 -0400, The Fairly Unbalanced Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthlout.com> wrote:
<snip>
Good. We want them to worry about us.
Them = The rest of the world?
Strange concept.
Well, of course our enemies should worry more than our friends.
Unfortunately, nuclear winters don't discern friends from foe.
They should worry more about the Marine Corps.
The U.S. Marine Corps aren't too good at discerning from from foe
neither.
Red Celt
aa#883
--
Boy, I've never seen an issue so divisive. It's like a civil war,
isn't it? Even amongst my friends, who are all very intelligent
people, they are totally divided on abortion. Some of my friends, for
instance, think these pro-life people are annoying idiots. Others of
my friends think these pro-life people are evil fucks.
How are we going to come to a consensus?
You want to hear the arguments around my house.
"They're annoying!"
"They're idiots!"
"They're evil!"
"They're fucks!"
Brothers, sisters come together! Can't we once just join hands and
think of them as evil annoying idiot fucks?
-- the late great Bill Hicks
.
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| User: "The Fairly Unbalanced Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: 72% of Americans are creationists!? (was Re: As Americans areslowly becoming less religious, are religious Americans slowly becoming nuttier?) |
16 Aug 2003 08:15:51 PM |
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Craig McDonald wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 19:18:21 -0400, The Fairly Unbalanced Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthlout.com> wrote:
Craig McDonald wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 18:25:31 -0400, The Fairly Unbalanced Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthlout.com> wrote:
<snip>
Good. We want them to worry about us.
Them = The rest of the world?
Strange concept.
Well, of course our enemies should worry more than our friends.
Unfortunately, nuclear winters don't discern friends from foe.
They should worry more about the Marine Corps.
The U.S. Marine Corps aren't too good at discerning from from foe
neither.
The politicians are supposed to work that out before they send in the
Marines.
--
Fred Stone
Conquering the Galaxy since 2003
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| User: "Craig McDonald" |
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| Title: Re: 72% of Americans are creationists!? (was Re: As Americans are slowly becoming less religious, are religious Americans slowly becoming nuttier?) |
16 Aug 2003 08:28:16 PM |
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On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 21:15:51 -0400, The Fairly Unbalanced Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthlout.com> wrote:
Craig McDonald wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 19:18:21 -0400, The Fairly Unbalanced Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthlout.com> wrote:
Craig McDonald wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 18:25:31 -0400, The Fairly Unbalanced Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthlout.com> wrote:
<snip>
Good. We want them to worry about us.
Them = The rest of the world?
Strange concept.
Well, of course our enemies should worry more than our friends.
Unfortunately, nuclear winters don't discern friends from foe.
They should worry more about the Marine Corps.
The U.S. Marine Corps aren't too good at discerning from from foe
neither.
The politicians are supposed to work that out before they send in the
Marines.
I was referring to what happens on the field of combat, far away from
any politician's desk. Euphimistically known as friendly fire.
Red Celt
aa#883
--
Boy, I've never seen an issue so divisive. It's like a civil war,
isn't it? Even amongst my friends, who are all very intelligent
people, they are totally divided on abortion. Some of my friends, for
instance, think these pro-life people are annoying idiots. Others of
my friends think these pro-life people are evil fucks.
How are we going to come to a consensus?
You want to hear the arguments around my house.
"They're annoying!"
"They're idiots!"
"They're evil!"
"They're fucks!"
Brothers, sisters come together! Can't we once just join hands and
think of them as evil annoying idiot fucks?
-- the late great Bill Hicks
.
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