| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Stephen" |
| Date: |
14 Apr 2006 10:12:16 AM |
| Object: |
Assistance from the wise PLEASE !! |
"One question....why don't you believ in God??"
Yes this fuckwad really did spell it "believ".
I'm currently being pestered by one of the brainwashed billion or so left
who still calls the notion of a lovely benevolent invisible man "the truth".
One time in this newsgroup I read the most amazing post about the ins and
outs of how totally illogical the concept of an omnipotent being really is.
Could someone kindly help me out with the wording here and you people
possess minds far greater than I on this one.
Thanks if you can assist.
.
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| User: "Stephen" |
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| Title: Re: Assistance from the wise PLEASE !! |
14 Apr 2006 10:52:32 PM |
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"Stephen" <dorphine@tesco.net> wrote in message
news:kZO%f.44792$g76.37368@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
"One question....why don't you believ in God??"
Yes this fuckwad really did spell it "believ".
I'm currently being pestered by one of the brainwashed billion or so left
who still calls the notion of a lovely benevolent invisible man "the
truth".
One time in this newsgroup I read the most amazing post about the ins and
outs of how totally illogical the concept of an omnipotent being really
is. Could someone kindly help me out with the wording here and you people
possess minds far greater than I on this one.
Thanks if you can assist.
Thank you all very much for the assist. I posted that excellent piece, and
here, copied and pasted, is proof enough that christians are woefully
uneducated as a species :
""As he knows that the Universe in its present
state will have a John Smith, god may then
contemplate the future state of Smith and
decide if he will tolerate an evil Smith.
If yes, Smith will be evil only because of a
specific personal and will choice made solely
by god."
You have it ALL wrong. When God first created man...they didn't know what
evil was until Satan tricked Eve into disobeying God. That brought evil and
sin into the world. God also gave man a choice. Man chooses if he wants to
do things that are evil or not. Saatan takes advantage of the people that
could care less about what they do or how they live.
All evill will pay in the end but until that comes people will do what they
feel like because they don't have enough common sense to realize what they
are doing is wrong. And if God does allow people to be evil and if he
"makes" them evil they why is he going to make them all pay for the evil
that they do?
As for the evolution thing...micro-whatever they're called had to have
gotten on earth somehow if that's "how we evolved"
I pray that God helps you see that whayt you are saying and putting on here
isn't "the truth" and I also pray that he opens your eyes and you heart so
that you can understand wheree I'm coming from because if God wsn't real
then I wouldn't be itting here typing this just so I could get CTS.
Love in Christ....David"
I'm particularly fond of the "micro-whatever they're called". Happens when
you get all your education from a book of fairytales.
And he keeps on fucking PRAYING for me. Such is the trait of these insidious
little cretins.
I imagine that if I were to repeatedly bash him over the head with a wooden
mallet he'd be going "I...pray...you'll...stop...doing..that..."
.
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| User: "Jeff White" |
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| Title: Re: Assistance from the wise PLEASE !! |
15 Apr 2006 12:49:52 AM |
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"Stephen" <dorphine@tesco.net> wrote in message
news:46_%f.32989$8o.21127@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
"Stephen" <dorphine@tesco.net> wrote in message
news:kZO%f.44792$g76.37368@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
"One question....why don't you believ in God??"
Yes this fuckwad really did spell it "believ".
I'm currently being pestered by one of the brainwashed billion or so left
who still calls the notion of a lovely benevolent invisible man "the
truth".
One time in this newsgroup I read the most amazing post about the ins and
outs of how totally illogical the concept of an omnipotent being really
is. Could someone kindly help me out with the wording here and you people
possess minds far greater than I on this one.
Thanks if you can assist.
Thank you all very much for the assist. I posted that excellent piece, and
here, copied and pasted, is proof enough that christians are woefully
uneducated as a species :
""As he knows that the Universe in its present
state will have a John Smith, god may then
contemplate the future state of Smith and
decide if he will tolerate an evil Smith.
If yes, Smith will be evil only because of a
specific personal and will choice made solely
by god."
You have it ALL wrong. When God first created man...they didn't know what
evil was until Satan tricked Eve into disobeying God. That brought evil
and sin into the world. God also gave man a choice. Man chooses if he
wants to do things that are evil or not. Saatan takes advantage of the
people that could care less about what they do or how they live.
All evill will pay in the end but until that comes people will do what
they feel like because they don't have enough common sense to realize what
they are doing is wrong. And if God does allow people to be evil and if he
"makes" them evil they why is he going to make them all pay for the evil
that they do?
As for the evolution thing...micro-whatever they're called had to have
gotten on earth somehow if that's "how we evolved"
I pray that God helps you see that whayt you are saying and putting on
here isn't "the truth" and I also pray that he opens your eyes and you
heart so that you can understand wheree I'm coming from because if God
wsn't real then I wouldn't be itting here typing this just so I could get
CTS.
Love in Christ....David"
I'm particularly fond of the "micro-whatever they're called". Happens when
you get all your education from a book of fairytales.
And he keeps on fucking PRAYING for me. Such is the trait of these
insidious little cretins.
I imagine that if I were to repeatedly bash him over the head with a
wooden mallet he'd be going "I...pray...you'll...stop...doing..that..."
and you can prove all this *****?
.
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| User: "Jeff White" |
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| Title: Re: Assistance from the wise PLEASE !! |
14 Apr 2006 04:14:50 PM |
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"Stephen" <dorphine@tesco.net> wrote in message
news:kZO%f.44792$g76.37368@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
"One question....why don't you believ in God??"
am i supposed to?
well i shouldn't say i don't "believe in god", as there's always a
possibility (however infinitesimal), but i can say with certainty that
/biblegod/ is in fact all smoke and mirrors.
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| User: "NC" |
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| Title: Re: Assistance from the wise PLEASE !! |
14 Apr 2006 12:59:06 PM |
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"Stephen" <dorphine@tesco.net> wrote:
"One question....why don't you believ in God??"
Yes this fuckwad really did spell it "believ".
I'm currently being pestered by one of the brainwashed billion or so
left who still calls the notion of a lovely benevolent invisible man
"the truth".
One time in this newsgroup I read the most amazing post about the ins
and outs of how totally illogical the concept of an omnipotent being
really is. Could someone kindly help me out with the wording here and
you people possess minds far greater than I on this one.
Thanks if you can assist.
William Barwell posts this on a fairly regular basis. It is probably the
one you are thinking of. Google Groups link:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/4248d042126c1dc6
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| User: "Don Kresch" |
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| Title: Re: Assistance from the wise PLEASE !! |
14 Apr 2006 08:41:05 PM |
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In alt.atheism On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 15:12:16 GMT, "Stephen"
<dorphine@tesco.net> let us all know that:
"One question....why don't you believ in God??"
Yes this fuckwad really did spell it "believ".
I'm currently being pestered by one of the brainwashed billion or so left
who still calls the notion of a lovely benevolent invisible man "the truth".
I'd say "because you can't spell 'believe' correctly."
Don
---
aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man"
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Assistance from the wise PLEASE !! |
14 Apr 2006 11:50:56 PM |
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On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 15:12:16 GMT, "Stephen" <dorphine@tesco.net>
wrote:
- Refer: <kZO%f.44792$g76.37368@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net>
"One question....why don't you believ in God??"
Yes this fuckwad really did spell it "believ".
I'm currently being pestered by one of the brainwashed billion or so left
who still calls the notion of a lovely benevolent invisible man "the truth".
One time in this newsgroup I read the most amazing post about the ins and
outs of how totally illogical the concept of an omnipotent being really is.
Could someone kindly help me out with the wording here and you people
possess minds far greater than I on this one.
Thanks if you can assist.
It's simple:
There is no need whatsover.
--
.
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| User: "wbarwell" |
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| Title: Re: Assistance from the wise PLEASE !! |
14 Apr 2006 09:11:26 PM |
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Stephen wrote:
One time in this newsgroup I read the most amazing post about the ins and
outs of how totally illogical the concept of an omnipotent being really
is. Could someone kindly help me out with the wording here and you people
possess minds far greater than I on this one.
Thanks if you can assist.
IS THERE A GOD?
Strong Atheism's answer.
A BASIC DEFINITION OF GOD.
The general overarching definition of god as per
the major religions of the world is:
A. God is personal, God has will and consciousness.
B. God has free will.
C. God is the creator of all.
D. God is omnipotent.
E. God is omnibenevolent.
F. God is omniscient.
G. God is that which nothing more powerful
can be imagined.
These are the basic attributes that can be claimed
for the god of orthodox Judaism, Christianity,
Islam, and Hinduism.
Omnibenevolence and omniscience are actually
logically derivable from the claimed attribute of
omnipotence and so aren't not truly independent
attributes, and may be considered special aspects
of omnipotence.
There are other attributes of god, that he is the
only such god, that he is is immortal and that
god has always existed that are not important
for this discussion and for now, can be ignored.
They are secondary arguments and are for the most
part not foundational or truly necessary, except
those that can be logically derived from the
attributes listed above.
A CLASS OF GODS
It is important to note here that this is a
definition not for a particular god, but an
entire class of gods.
Sub-theories about god are not important here.
Christianity claims one may attain salvation
only through Jesus, Islam claims the Christian
dogma that Jesus was the son of god is
blasphemous.
Ideas like this though, are of little importance
to the overarching and general claims made for a
personal, creator, omni-everything god. I have
coined a term, The Grand God of Grand Theologies
for this sort of god, this sort of theological
system of expansive claims for god.
Grand theologies are those theologies that have
adopted this class of god as their basic
attributes concerning the nature of god. But it
is important to remember here that what is being
discussed here is a class of gods, not particular
gods or specific gods.
THE FOUR GREAT THEOLOGICAL TRADITIONS
Again, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism hold
to this basic Grand God and are typical Grand
Theologies holding to this basic class of god as
their basic definitions of what god is at god's
most basic level.
A big problem with this class of gods is, it
collapses rather easily into internal self
contradiction.
THE PROBLEM OF EVIL.
The problem of evil was first written down by
Epicurus in about the third century BCE.
Today's formulation is:
A. God is defined as omnipotent;
B. and as omnibenevolent.
C. Evil exists.
D. God therefore, is not omnipotent as claimed.
E. Or God is not omnibenevolent as claimed.
F. Or god is neither omnipotent or
omnibenevolent.
G. Or god is not existant.
THE FREE WILL DEFENSE
The free will defense of the problem of evil goes
back to St. Augustine who popularized it. It is
still popular, and is championed most notably
today by Alvin Plantinga, but also by other
theologians.
God gave man free will. Man freely chooses to do
evil. Ability to do evil is less evil than
lacking free will.
THE FREE WILL DEFENSE DEBUNKED.
God has free will.
God is omnibenevolent, he has a good nature
incapable of doing evil.
A. If god can have free will, and a good nature,
this good nature is not allowed to count
against god's free will.
B. Nor is god's lack of ability to do evil
allowed to count against god's omnipotence.
C. Likewise, man could easily have a god like
free will and a god like good nature.
D. Inabilty then to do evil would no more count
against man's free will than it does for god's
free will.
E. If so, it also counts against god's free will
and god does not have free will as claimed.
F. If god does not have absolute and total free
will, thus free will is not a true necessity
at all.
F. If god is omnipotent and omnibenevolent, and
can give man a god like free will and a
god-like good nature incapable of moral evil,
god must do so or god is not moral, not
omnibenevolent.
G. Evil exists because he allows it to.
So free will does not exist, or it does and we can
have a god like free will and a god like good
nature. Either way, free will cannot explain away
the existence of evil. This free will defense
then, is a failed argument.
OMNISCIENCE VERSUS CREATORHOOD OF GOD
God is defined as creator of all in most
religions.
And god is claimed to be omniscient, all knowing.
A. God created the Universe and all in it.
B. God is omniscient, all knowing, he knows all
in the Universe and he knows the future of the
Universe and its contents.
C. If god creates a Universe, he will know that
in 13 billion years this Universe will have a
man named John Smith in it.
D. If John Smith is good and saved, or evil and
damned, God will know that.
E. As he knows that the Universe in its present
state will have a John Smith, god may then
contemplate the future state of Smith and
decide if he will tolerate an evil Smith.
F. If yes, Smith will be evil only because of a
specific personal and will choice made solely
by god.
G. If Smith is evil, then evil exists solely
because of a choice made by god. In fact all
moral evil done by creations of god will be
evil and do evil only because of personal and
willful creations of god allowing evil acts
to be done, by direct decision of god.
H. If evil exists in a world with an omniscient
creator god, it is solely and only because
god allows evil.
I. If evil exists solely because of personal
choices of god, god then is not as defined,
omnibenevolent.
J. Man and any other sentient being in such a
Universe cannot have any free will, not even
in principle. A Universe with a god that
creates all and knows all precludes free will
for all beings god creates in the strongest
possible manner.
The Grand God of Grand
Theology is thus self destroying, it is
incoherent and contradictory as a theory.
THE SITUATION SO FAR.
1. A minimalistic class of gods is defined, this
Grand God has been defined here with as few
terms as possible.
2. The problem of evil dooms such a claimed god.
3. The attempted defense, free will is fatally
flawed. God's good nature and free will doom
claims free will makes evil necessary for man
to have free will.
4. Omniscience and creatorhood of god further
doom claims of god's omnibenevolence and
man's free will free will cannot exist for
man. All evil is the direct and knowing
creation of god contradicting claims of
omnibenevolence.
5. Since Free will for man is totally impossible,
free will cannot be a good quality, much less
necessary.
Here, the Grand God of Grand Theology has
collapsed. As has Grand
Theology. As pointed out, this destroys the claims
and viability of an entire class of possible gods,
all secondary and tertiary claims for such a god of
this class also fail, as do dogmas or secondary
or tertiary claims.
If a these Grand Gods cannot exist as defined,
specific gods cannot, nor can claims such as this
or that Grand God sent this or that revelation to
man or some prophet or did this or that.
God is thus disprove and is utter irrelevant
to anything real and existant.
***********
OMNIPOTENCE AND OMNISCIENCE
A. Omnipotence is a special sort of attribute, of
all god's alledged attributes the most
important, because from that attribute you
can derive others attributes, including
omniscience. If one says for purposes of
argument god is omnipotent, one is also
implying god is also omniscient.
B. If god is omnipotent, god must also
specifically have omniscience because if
he does not have omniscience, one
cannot claim omnipotence as an attribute.
C. Thus if god is omnipotent, and created all,
free will is impossible because creation
and omniscience rule out free will as was
shown. In this world god supposedly created,
evil exists. So god must not be
omnibenevolent as claimed as all evil is
created by god if man cannot have free will.
D. So omnipotence and omnibenevolence are thus
mutually exclusive in a world that does in
fact have evil in it. Because omniscience
must exist as part of omnipotence and
omniscience and creatorhood cannot coexist
with free will, omnipotence is also not
compatible with creatorhood and
omnibenevolence. One cannot finesse this
all by ignoringomniscience or abandoning
omniscience.
E. One can only dispose of omniscience by also
explicitly abandoning omnipotence. If god is
defined as being omnibenevolent then a god
that is also allegedly also creator of all
must be evil.
CREATORHOOD OF GOD
F. One may be tempted to abandon the idea god
created all. But that creates some very strong
logical problems also.
G. If god is omnipotent, he can create all. Or
modify any other creation he does not himself
create. No other being or process may create
something god could not modify, because of the
power of his omniscience.
H. So if for purposes of argument, we claim the
Universe was not created by god, he could,
being omnipotent, change that creation for
his own purposes, that of creating good due
to his attribute of omnibenevolence.
We are back to the problem of evil again, he
could change creation such that no evil John
Smiths can exist.
If not he then is sole and only cause for
existence of all evil.
If god is omnibenevolent and omnipotent he
still must modify any creations he did not
himself create to destroy evil, if he can
do so. So claiming god did not create all
does not save the concept of an omnipotent,
omnibenevolent god. It cannot avoid the
problem of evil.
I. Omniscience means we cannot dodge the problem
of evil by stating god did not create the
Universe even if one wished to, nor by limiting
his creatorhood, for example saying god did not
create the original material of the Universe,
but used it as a building material.
J. Thus to get rid of the creator problem, we must
explicitly abandon it all and totally. Only by
doing so could one get around the problem of
creatorhood and omniscience. But if we say god
cannot either create the Universe or modify it
as he finds it, we drop omniscience also,
explicitly. God then turns out not to be
creator of all nor omnipotent as a priori
defined, a contradiction disproving that
a priori defined god.
K. If evil exists because god could change the
Universe he did not create, and he fails to do
so, then all evil exists solely because
of knowing and personal choices god makes.
L. God being omnipotent cannot be controlled by
any other process or other entities. He may
modify any works or creations made by them.
M. If god cannot change creations of others, or
the pre-existing materials of the Universe,
omnipotence in not an attribute of god as
claimed a priori.
M. Omnipotence and creatorhood thus are entangled
in a manner that makes it hard to abandon the
doctrine god created all and if one does, one
must likewise abandon claims of omnipotence.
PRE-EXISTING MATTER AND A PRE-EXISTING UNIVERSE.
The Greek writer Hesiod in his Theogony, starts
with a Universe that is a chaotic void. This
void, through the mysterious property of
emanation, created the first generation of gods,
the Titans, who in their turn created the
Olympians gods who eventually displace the
Titans as rulers of the world.
Likewise, some theologians see Genesis as
representing god creating the world out of a
similar void, a primordial sea god did not
himself create, but used as raw material for
his creations.
God's existence is not explained.
This idea god did not create all still would not
absolve an omnipotent god from responsibility
for evil. The biblical god if he did not create
the Universe and its component materials used them
as he pleased. If that god is omnipotent, then he
bears all responsibility for the world he did
create out of pre-existing material. Whether
this god is said to be eternal or like Hesiod's
Titans was somehow emanated from the chaos of
the void does not materially change any arguments
involving omnipotence, omniscience or
omnibenevolence, if god is said to have these
attributes.
************************************************
ATTRIBUTES OF GOD PART THREE
Does god create the rules, the laws, the logic of
the Universe or not? Is 2 + 2 = 4 something god
set as part of the nature of the Universe or is
that outside and beyond god?
Can god change 2 + 2 to 5?
A. If god did in fact make the rules and laws and
logic of the Universe, god could also change
them as needed.
B. A god that creates the rules.laws and logic
of the world he creates could simply make a
world where man has free will yet freely
chooses only to do moral good. Since god
creates the rules of the Universe, he could
change them in name of omnibenevolence, free
will is perserved and evil is banished. Evil
no longer needs to exist to allow for free
will.
C. If god could do this and fails to, evil
exists solely and only because of god's
failure to use his omnipotence to change
the rules and laws and logic of the Universe
to give man free will and a nature incapable
of doing evil.
D. If god can do this and fails to, god is not
omnibenevolent as claimed, a contradiction
in definitions of god as omnibenevolent and
omnipotent.
E. God in fact since he is essentially the
creator and sustaining cause of all evil
that was, is, and shall be is omni-malevolent.
F. If god does not make the rules, the laws, the
very logic of the Universe, then we have the
problem of what these things are and where
they come from.
G. If these laws and rules and logic limit god,
then god is obviously not omnipotent as
claimed.
H. And thus god is not as claimed, the greatest
thing that can be imagined. Obviously laws
and rules and logic that limit the most
powerful in the Universe are greater
still because they do in fact limit such
a being.
I. If such laws and rules and logic outside and
beyond god do exist, and are thus greater
than god, god is not the greatest thing
imaginable and all ontological 'proofs' that
are based on that basic claim fail.
J. Such rules and laws and logic must exist
outside of god's control and must have always
bee outside his control. If there were ever
in god's control, god cannot have reduced his
power to abandon omnipotence voluntarily.
Omnipotence is an inherent ability. It would
be like abandoning a sense of taste or touch.
This observation forstalls attempts at
apologisms claiming god abandoned any
abilities.
K. And if god could indeed abandon omnipotence,
he must avoid that. After all, he is also
omnibenevolent. Omnibenevolence dictates he
must at all times do the good thing, never an
evil thing. Abandoning omnipotence such that
he could no longer create a world where man
has free will, and a nature incapable of evil
is to allow evil to exist. To abandon
omnipotence is to embrace the proposition
evil is to be allowed to flourish. So any
claims god might have for some greater good
abandoned omnipotence freely are not possible.
L. If god is said to be omnipotent, if he at
anytime gave up any abilities he can no
longer said to be omnipotent, if he actually
gave up any abilities.
M. Since god must have had maximum power and
abilities and cannot have at any time
voluntarilyy relinquished any powers or
abilities, at least in the name of banishing
evil the fact that there are laws and rules
and logic of a universe outside and beyond
god, they aretrulyy beyond and outside god,
and always were.
N. Since such laws and rules and laws are outside
god, and always were so,and are properties of
the Universe, the Universe is likewise outside
and beyond god, with its laws and rules and
logic.
O. Since the Universe and its laws and rules and
logic are outside and beyond god, god is not
as, creator of all.
P. Since the Universe no longer relies on god for
its purportedexistencee, nor on god for the
existencee of its laws and rules and logic,
god is no longer a necessary being. If there
are things that have necessaryexistencee, it
would have to be the Universe as whole, or
possibly its laws, its rules or its logic,
or a subset of these rules or laws or the
underlying causes of these things, if any.
None were created by god or can be modified
by god.
Q. If these laws and rules and logic could be
modified by god, then the rules and laws
and logic of the Universe would have been
modified to enexistencece of evil, and must
be modified this if god is actually
omnipotent and omnibenevolent.
R. God then is not omnipotent, or not
omnibenevolent, or is neither, or
does not exist.
THE ATTRIBUTES AND NATURE OF GOD IN LIGHT OF THE
ABOVE EXAMINATION OF GOD
Thus the idea god is omnipotent, omnibenevolent,
and creator of all, clash again
and mutually self-destruct over the issue of
evil'existencece. This raises
serious questions on the nature of the Universe
that cannot be as Grand Theology
claims it is.
A. We have shown god cannot have created the
Universe.
B. We have shown god does not create the laws,
rules and laws of that Universe.
C. That god is thus not omnipotent as these laws
limit him.
D. That god is not the greatest imaginable thing.
E. That ontological proofs of god'existencece
based on claims god is the greatest thing
imaginable are failed arguments.
F. That god cannot be a necessary being, as
claimed.
G. That any possible claims god might for some
reason abandon or limit any abilities cannot
be true in any attempt to avoid this line of
inquiry. Nor can that approach derail logical
examination of consequences of Grand
Theology's overarching claims to god's
attributes or nature.
The fact that god iallegedlyly omnibenevolent and
evil exists, demonstrates god cannot make the
rules of the world. 2 + 2 = 4 because that is
the nature of the Universe, not something god
created.Because if god did create the rules and
laws and logic of the Universe, and was
omnibenevolent, we should have no signs of evil,
especially moral evil of man, Satan, demons and
devils.
But if one admits to that, Many other important
claims collapse, many other arguments about god
and his attributes and nature no longer are
viable. Some of these claims, god's creation
of the Universe are among the oldest and most
basic of theology.
Ontological proofs started with Anselm in the
10th century, all of these now must be abandoned.
The necessary being argument, long a rhetorical
argument is now finally dead.
Free will defenses against the problem of evil
opened up a line of attack here that is powerful
and very final.
**************************************************
--
Just when did the children of Cthulhu take
over our government anyway?
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "J Forbes" |
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| Title: Re: Assistance from the wise PLEASE !! |
14 Apr 2006 10:39:01 AM |
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Stephen wrote:
"One question....why don't you believ in God??"
Yes this fuckwad really did spell it "believ".
I'm currently being pestered by one of the brainwashed billion or so left
who still calls the notion of a lovely benevolent invisible man "the truth".
One time in this newsgroup I read the most amazing post about the ins and
outs of how totally illogical the concept of an omnipotent being really is.
Could someone kindly help me out with the wording here and you people
possess minds far greater than I on this one.
Thanks if you can assist.
Did this person ask why I don't believe, or why you don't believe?
I suggest you answer for your own self.
Jim
.
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| User: "Stephen" |
|
| Title: Re: Assistance from the wise PLEASE !! |
14 Apr 2006 10:39:35 AM |
|
|
"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:1145029141.663544.203570@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Stephen wrote:
"One question....why don't you believ in God??"
Yes this fuckwad really did spell it "believ".
I'm currently being pestered by one of the brainwashed billion or so left
who still calls the notion of a lovely benevolent invisible man "the
truth".
One time in this newsgroup I read the most amazing post about the ins and
outs of how totally illogical the concept of an omnipotent being really
is.
Could someone kindly help me out with the wording here and you people
possess minds far greater than I on this one.
Thanks if you can assist.
Did this person ask why I don't believe, or why you don't believe?
I suggest you answer for your own self.
Jim
I have been but I need the wording right. Is it not a general consensus that
the very notion of a magic invisible man is stretching the realms of
credibility just a tad. Some theories remain the same no matter who says
them.
.
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| User: "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrichs effort" |
|
| Title: Re: Assistance from the wise PLEASE !! |
14 Apr 2006 12:14:03 PM |
|
|
Stephen wrote:
"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:1145029141.663544.203570@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Stephen wrote:
"One question....why don't you believ in God??"
Yes this fuckwad really did spell it "believ".
I'm currently being pestered by one of the brainwashed billion or so left
who still calls the notion of a lovely benevolent invisible man "the
truth".
One time in this newsgroup I read the most amazing post about the ins and
outs of how totally illogical the concept of an omnipotent being really
is.
Could someone kindly help me out with the wording here and you people
possess minds far greater than I on this one.
Thanks if you can assist.
Did this person ask why I don't believe, or why you don't believe?
I suggest you answer for your own self.
Jim
I have been but I need the wording right. Is it not a general consensus that
the very notion of a magic invisible man is stretching the realms of
credibility just a tad. Some theories remain the same no matter who says
them.
Are you thinking of the proofs of the nonexistence of god wbarwell has
posted? Here's one instance:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/af8518d5caf6e6e2?hl=en&
.
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| User: "Stephen" |
|
| Title: Re: Assistance from the wise PLEASE !! |
14 Apr 2006 12:40:32 PM |
|
|
"JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrich's effort"
<jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote in message
news:1145034843.798312.254130@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Stephen wrote:
"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:1145029141.663544.203570@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Stephen wrote:
"One question....why don't you believ in God??"
Yes this fuckwad really did spell it "believ".
I'm currently being pestered by one of the brainwashed billion or so
left
who still calls the notion of a lovely benevolent invisible man "the
truth".
One time in this newsgroup I read the most amazing post about the ins
and
outs of how totally illogical the concept of an omnipotent being
really
is.
Could someone kindly help me out with the wording here and you people
possess minds far greater than I on this one.
Thanks if you can assist.
Did this person ask why I don't believe, or why you don't believe?
I suggest you answer for your own self.
Jim
I have been but I need the wording right. Is it not a general consensus
that
the very notion of a magic invisible man is stretching the realms of
credibility just a tad. Some theories remain the same no matter who says
them.
Are you thinking of the proofs of the nonexistence of god wbarwell has
posted? Here's one instance:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/af8518d5caf6e6e2?hl=en&
YES !!! Spot on, direct hit, etc etc. Thanks a lot.
.
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| User: "Chris Johnson" |
|
| Title: Re: Assistance from the wise PLEASE !! |
14 Apr 2006 12:16:54 PM |
|
|
Stephen wrote:
"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:1145029141.663544.203570@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Stephen wrote:
"One question....why don't you believ in God??"
Yes this fuckwad really did spell it "believ".
I'm currently being pestered by one of the brainwashed billion or so left
who still calls the notion of a lovely benevolent invisible man "the
truth".
One time in this newsgroup I read the most amazing post about the ins and
outs of how totally illogical the concept of an omnipotent being really
is.
Could someone kindly help me out with the wording here and you people
possess minds far greater than I on this one.
Thanks if you can assist.
Did this person ask why I don't believe, or why you don't believe?
I suggest you answer for your own self.
Jim
I have been but I need the wording right. Is it not a general consensus that
the very notion of a magic invisible man is stretching the realms of
credibility just a tad. Some theories remain the same no matter who says
them.
Perhaps you're looking for wbarwell's post? Just google for his name
and "strong atheist" and you should be able to find it.
.
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| User: "J Forbes" |
|
| Title: Re: Assistance from the wise PLEASE !! |
14 Apr 2006 01:00:40 PM |
|
|
Stephen wrote:
"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:1145029141.663544.203570@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I suggest you answer for your own self.
Jim
I have been but I need the wording right. Is it not a general consensus that
the very notion of a magic invisible man is stretching the realms of
credibility just a tad. Some theories remain the same no matter who says
them.
I think the notion of a magic invisible man is indeed stretching
credibility....that's all you need to say. It's sufficient reason for
you to not believe, after all.
Jim
.
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|
|
| User: "Stephen" |
|
| Title: Re: Assistance from the wise PLEASE !! |
14 Apr 2006 01:49:58 PM |
|
|
"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:1145037640.250777.14150@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I think the notion of a magic invisible man is indeed stretching
credibility....that's all you need to say. It's sufficient reason for
you to not believe, after all.
Jim
Oh if only it were ! But remember we're dealing with someone who's
brainwashed and thus no longer posesses a sense of rationale or objectivity.
All he ever says when I point out it's a mere belief system is either "YOU
can say what you want, I KNOW it's the truth" or "you just don't get it".
It's the old brick wall and head scenario.
.
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| User: "Onanite" |
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| Title: Re: Assistance from the wise PLEASE !! |
14 Apr 2006 02:17:12 PM |
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|
Stephen wrote:
"Oh if only it were ! But remember we're dealing with someone who's
brainwashed and thus no longer posesses a sense of rationale or
objectivity. "
That is it exactly Stephen. There is no point wasting your time with
someone like this. I have been on usenet, in many different forms, for
almost 15 years now, and "they" never change. The is no logic for
them, and little to no hope of helping them to freedom.
I just give them a little wink and a nod, pat them on the head, and
send them their way. Much simpler and more satisfying than trying to
help them to reality.
Onanite
http://onanite.blogspot.com/
.
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| User: "wbarwell" |
|
| Title: Re: Assistance from the wise PLEASE !! |
16 Apr 2006 11:33:47 AM |
|
|
Onanite wrote:
Stephen wrote:
"Oh if only it were ! But remember we're dealing with someone who's
brainwashed and thus no longer posesses a sense of rationale or
objectivity. "
That is it exactly Stephen. There is no point wasting your time with
someone like this. I have been on usenet, in many different forms, for
almost 15 years now, and "they" never change. The is no logic for
them, and little to no hope of helping them to freedom.
People in facts sometimes do change, ask those on AA that did so.
But not immediately, its takes time for person to mull things over and
decide that intellectual honesty is importnat and that mythology doesn't
work.
When you argue facts with somebody, you are planting seeds that may
or may not grow. In some it will. You gain nothing by giving up
because change is not usually immediate and dramtic.
--
Just when did the children of Cthulhu take
over our government anyway?
Cheerful Charlie
.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
|
| Title: Re: Assistance from the wise PLEASE !! |
16 Apr 2006 12:54:11 PM |
|
|
wbarwell wrote:
Onanite wrote:
Stephen wrote:
"Oh if only it were ! But remember we're dealing with someone who's
brainwashed and thus no longer posesses a sense of rationale or
objectivity. "
That is it exactly Stephen. There is no point wasting your time with
someone like this. I have been on usenet, in many different forms,
for almost 15 years now, and "they" never change. The is no logic
for them, and little to no hope of helping them to freedom.
People in facts sometimes do change, ask those on AA that did so.
But not immediately, its takes time for person to mull things over
and decide that intellectual honesty is importnat and that mythology
doesn't work.
When you argue facts with somebody, you are planting seeds that may
or may not grow. In some it will. You gain nothing by giving up
because change is not usually immediate and dramtic.
Argueing with "them" may not change their mind but it certainly may change
the mind of others who are more objective. It is still possible to grow up
in an environment where (fundamental) religious beliefs are never questioned
and a lot of people will accept them without thinking about it. Coming here
makes them think.
.
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| User: "Chris Johnson" |
|
| Title: Re: Assistance from the wise PLEASE !! |
14 Apr 2006 02:00:07 PM |
|
|
Stephen wrote:
"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:1145037640.250777.14150@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I think the notion of a magic invisible man is indeed stretching
credibility....that's all you need to say. It's sufficient reason for
you to not believe, after all.
Jim
Oh if only it were ! But remember we're dealing with someone who's
brainwashed and thus no longer posesses a sense of rationale or objectivity.
All he ever says when I point out it's a mere belief system is either "YOU
can say what you want, I KNOW it's the truth" or "you just don't get it".
It's the old brick wall and head scenario.
Well are you trying to convince him he's wrong or just explain why
you're an atheist?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Stephen" |
|
| Title: Re: Assistance from the wise PLEASE !! |
14 Apr 2006 04:42:18 PM |
|
|
"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1145041207.515213.144330@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Stephen wrote:
"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:1145037640.250777.14150@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I think the notion of a magic invisible man is indeed stretching
credibility....that's all you need to say. It's sufficient reason for
you to not believe, after all.
Jim
Oh if only it were ! But remember we're dealing with someone who's
brainwashed and thus no longer posesses a sense of rationale or
objectivity.
All he ever says when I point out it's a mere belief system is either
"YOU
can say what you want, I KNOW it's the truth" or "you just don't get it".
It's the old brick wall and head scenario.
Well are you trying to convince him he's wrong or just explain why
you're an atheist?
Hope you'll not bite my head off for this but I don't consider myself an
athiest. The reason for this is because it plays directly into the hands of
christians who then tell me "oh !! ohh !! so to call yourself an atheist you
must at least have *considered* there may be a god !" No, I have never done
this. Not even way back when I was 8 years old and they tried to ram some
fairytale about some man who "walked on water" and "came back to life !" I
remember thinking back THEN it was horseshit (though obviously I didn't know
that word then!) just as I see it is today. But I came to this newsgroup
because it has provided an oasis of sanity in a world teeming with these
ill-educated christian types with their "god is real. Full stop" arrogance.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Assistance from the wise PLEASE !! |
15 Apr 2006 04:51:42 AM |
|
|
Stephen wrote:
"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1145041207.515213.144330@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Stephen wrote:
"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:1145037640.250777.14150@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I think the notion of a magic invisible man is indeed stretching
credibility....that's all you need to say. It's sufficient reason for
you to not believe, after all.
Jim
Oh if only it were ! But remember we're dealing with someone who's
brainwashed and thus no longer posesses a sense of rationale or
objectivity.
All he ever says when I point out it's a mere belief system is either
"YOU
can say what you want, I KNOW it's the truth" or "you just don't get it".
It's the old brick wall and head scenario.
Well are you trying to convince him he's wrong or just explain why
you're an atheist?
Hope you'll not bite my head off for this but I don't consider myself an
athiest. The reason for this is because it plays directly into the hands of
christians who then tell me "oh !! ohh !! so to call yourself an atheist you
must at least have *considered* there may be a god !"
I see. It's all the baggage *they've* placed around the word. Myself,
I'm doing my part to reclaim it..<g>
No, I have never done
this. Not even way back when I was 8 years old and they tried to ram some
fairytale about some man who "walked on water" and "came back to life !" I
remember thinking back THEN it was horseshit (though obviously I didn't know
that word then!) just as I see it is today.
Remember that the word means less than people think it does.
A-symmetrical, a-political, a-theist. Just out of curiosity, are you
using any one word term, or simply saying "I don't believe any of that
is true"?
But I came to this newsgroup
because it has provided an oasis of sanity in a world teeming with these
ill-educated christian types with their "god is real. Full stop" arrogance.
You said a mouthful. I'm so tired of that crap.
As to your OP, I tell them there's no evidence that such creatures
exist, and an increasing amount of evidence that gods are not required
for existence. And *always* use the plural. Takes `em "off their game"
for a second.
-Panama Floyd, Atl.
aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA!
EAC Department of Telepropaganda
"..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next."
-Mark Twain
Religious societies are *less* moral than secular ones:
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html
.
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| User: "Chris Johnson" |
|
| Title: Re: Assistance from the wise PLEASE !! |
14 Apr 2006 06:40:46 PM |
|
|
Stephen wrote:
"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1145041207.515213.144330@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Stephen wrote:
"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:1145037640.250777.14150@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I think the notion of a magic invisible man is indeed stretching
credibility....that's all you need to say. It's sufficient reason for
you to not believe, after all.
Jim
Oh if only it were ! But remember we're dealing with someone who's
brainwashed and thus no longer posesses a sense of rationale or
objectivity.
All he ever says when I point out it's a mere belief system is either
"YOU
can say what you want, I KNOW it's the truth" or "you just don't get it".
It's the old brick wall and head scenario.
Well are you trying to convince him he's wrong or just explain why
you're an atheist?
Hope you'll not bite my head off for this but I don't consider myself an
athiest. The reason for this is because it plays directly into the hands of
christians who then tell me "oh !! ohh !! so to call yourself an atheist you
must at least have *considered* there may be a god !" No, I have never done
this. Not even way back when I was 8 years old and they tried to ram some
fairytale about some man who "walked on water" and "came back to life !" I
remember thinking back THEN it was horseshit (though obviously I didn't know
that word then!) just as I see it is today. But I came to this newsgroup
because it has provided an oasis of sanity in a world teeming with these
ill-educated christian types with their "god is real. Full stop" arrogance.
I see. While I would consider you an atheist (since all it takes is to
not be a theist), I can understand you not wanting to take the label,
as it confers too many preconceived notions even among the more
tolerant Christians.
I only asked because unless you're trying to convince him of the
validity of your position, you owe him nothing but a simple
explanation. "I haven't found convincing evidence to support your
position, so I cannot honestly accept it." "It seems more logical that
gods are human constructs than the other way around." "That makes no
bloody sense." You get the picture.
If you're trying to convince him, a formal logical proof isn't going to
help. In fact nothing will probably help, since it's not difficult for
a Christian to convince himself that Satan is using you to test him.
.
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| User: "J Forbes" |
|
| Title: Re: Assistance from the wise PLEASE !! |
14 Apr 2006 05:53:07 PM |
|
|
Stephen wrote:
"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1145041207.515213.144330@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Well are you trying to convince him he's wrong or just explain why
you're an atheist?
Hope you'll not bite my head off for this but I don't consider myself an
athiest. The reason for this is because it plays directly into the hands of
christians who then tell me "oh !! ohh !! so to call yourself an atheist you
must at least have *considered* there may be a god !" No, I have never done
this. Not even way back when I was 8 years old and they tried to ram some
fairytale about some man who "walked on water" and "came back to life !" I
remember thinking back THEN it was horseshit (though obviously I didn't know
that word then!) just as I see it is today. But I came to this newsgroup
because it has provided an oasis of sanity in a world teeming with these
ill-educated christian types with their "god is real. Full stop" arrogance.
Sounds to me like you're an atheist. It doesn't really matter whether
or not you consider yourself one, you are anyways, because an atheist
is a person who (like you) does not believe in god. It's just what the
word means.
I agree with those who suggest you just state your position concisely,
pat him on the head, and be on your way. You cannot change a theists
mind with reason, because they do not hold their beliefs with
reason--they have faith.
hope this helps...
Jim
.
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| User: "Jeff White" |
|
| Title: Re: Assistance from the wise PLEASE !! |
14 Apr 2006 04:18:51 PM |
|
|
"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1145041207.515213.144330@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Stephen wrote:
"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:1145037640.250777.14150@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I think the notion of a magic invisible man is indeed stretching
credibility....that's all you need to say. It's sufficient reason for
you to not believe, after all.
Jim
Oh if only it were ! But remember we're dealing with someone who's
brainwashed and thus no longer posesses a sense of rationale or
objectivity.
All he ever says when I point out it's a mere belief system is either
"YOU
can say what you want, I KNOW it's the truth" or "you just don't get it".
It's the old brick wall and head scenario.
Well are you trying to convince him he's wrong or just explain why
you're an atheist?
get on the offensive. make him explain why he believes!
.
|
|
|
| User: "Stephen" |
|
| Title: Re: Assistance from the wise PLEASE !! |
14 Apr 2006 04:38:49 PM |
|
|
"Jeff White" <mrsknickerbaiter@hasexploded.net> wrote in message
news:baydnR6_bMUkjN3ZnZ2dnUVZ_vudnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1145041207.515213.144330@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Stephen wrote:
"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:1145037640.250777.14150@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I think the notion of a magic invisible man is indeed stretching
credibility....that's all you need to say. It's sufficient reason for
you to not believe, after all.
Jim
Oh if only it were ! But remember we're dealing with someone who's
brainwashed and thus no longer posesses a sense of rationale or
objectivity.
All he ever says when I point out it's a mere belief system is either
"YOU
can say what you want, I KNOW it's the truth" or "you just don't get
it".
It's the old brick wall and head scenario.
Well are you trying to convince him he's wrong or just explain why
you're an atheist?
get on the offensive. make him explain why he believes!
I would but I don't think my stomach could stand the inevitable tyrade about
"god's love being all around us" etc etc. At this time of year I like to eat
loads of chocolate and I'd like to keep it down.
.
|
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| User: "Jeff White" |
|
| Title: Re: Assistance from the wise PLEASE !! |
15 Apr 2006 12:40:07 AM |
|
|
"Stephen" <dorphine@tesco.net> wrote in message
news:JDU%f.30121$Ph2.16822@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
"Jeff White" <mrsknickerbaiter@hasexploded.net> wrote in message
news:baydnR6_bMUkjN3ZnZ2dnUVZ_vudnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1145041207.515213.144330@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Stephen wrote:
"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:1145037640.250777.14150@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I think the notion of a magic invisible man is indeed stretching
credibility....that's all you need to say. It's sufficient reason
for
you to not believe, after all.
Jim
Oh if only it were ! But remember we're dealing with someone who's
brainwashed and thus no longer posesses a sense of rationale or
objectivity.
All he ever says when I point out it's a mere belief system is either
"YOU
can say what you want, I KNOW it's the truth" or "you just don't get
it".
It's the old brick wall and head scenario.
Well are you trying to convince him he's wrong or just explain why
you're an atheist?
get on the offensive. make him explain why he believes!
I would but I don't think my stomach could stand the inevitable tyrade
about "god's love being all around us" etc etc. At this time of year I
like to eat loads of chocolate and I'd like to keep it down.
hahaha god's love is all around us like a straitjacket!
.
|
|
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Assistance from the wise PLEASE !! |
15 Apr 2006 04:19:25 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 01:40:07 -0400, "Jeff White"
<mrsknickerbaiter@hasexploded.net> wrote:
- Refer: <S46dnfhfZOerGt3ZnZ2dnUVZ_uWdnZ2d@comcast.com>
"Stephen" <dorphine@tesco.net> wrote in message
news:JDU%f.30121$Ph2.16822@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
"Jeff White" <mrsknickerbaiter@hasexploded.net> wrote in message
news:baydnR6_bMUkjN3ZnZ2dnUVZ_vudnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1145041207.515213.144330@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Stephen wrote:
"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:1145037640.250777.14150@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I think the notion of a magic invisible man is indeed stretching
credibility....that's all you need to say. It's sufficient reason
for
you to not believe, after all.
Jim
Oh if only it were ! But remember we're dealing with someone who's
brainwashed and thus no longer posesses a sense of rationale or
objectivity.
All he ever says when I point out it's a mere belief system is either
"YOU
can say what you want, I KNOW it's the truth" or "you just don't get
it".
It's the old brick wall and head scenario.
Well are you trying to convince him he's wrong or just explain why
you're an atheist?
get on the offensive. make him explain why he believes!
I would but I don't think my stomach could stand the inevitable tyrade
about "god's love being all around us" etc etc. At this time of year I
like to eat loads of chocolate and I'd like to keep it down.
hahaha god's love is all around us like a straitjacket!
I prefer to imagine it as: drowning in a cess pit.
--
.
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
|
| Title: Re: Assistance from the wise PLEASE !! |
14 Apr 2006 10:16:18 PM |
|
|
Stephen wrote:
"Jeff White" <mrsknickerbaiter@hasexploded.net> wrote in message
news:baydnR6_bMUkjN3ZnZ2dnUVZ_vudnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1145041207.515213.144330@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Stephen wrote:
"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:1145037640.250777.14150@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I think the notion of a magic invisible man is indeed stretching
credibility....that's all you need to say. It's sufficient reason for
you to not believe, after all.
Jim
Oh if only it were ! But remember we're dealing with someone who's
brainwashed and thus no longer posesses a sense of rationale or
objectivity.
All he ever says when I point out it's a mere belief system is either
"YOU
can say what you want, I KNOW it's the truth" or "you just don't get
it".
It's the old brick wall and head scenario.
Well are you trying to convince him he's wrong or just explain why
you're an atheist?
get on the offensive. make him explain why he believes!
I would but I don't think my stomach could stand the inevitable tyrade about
"god's love being all around us" etc etc. At this time of year I like to eat
loads of chocolate and I'd like to keep it down.
When you throw it up, there's room for more, besides, it'll look better
on his face than on your hips.
--
Uncle Vic
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC department of little adhesive-backed shiny plastic
L-shaped doo-dads to add feet to Jesus Fish department
It is safe to say that the bible contains equal amounts of fact, history
and pizza.
-Penn Jillette
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Assistance from the wise PLEASE !! |
14 Apr 2006 10:14:40 PM |
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Stephen wrote:
"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:1145037640.250777.14150@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I think the notion of a magic invisible man is indeed stretching
credibility....that's all you need to say. It's sufficient reason for
you to not believe, after all.
Jim
Oh if only it were ! But remember we're dealing with someone who's
brainwashed and thus no longer posesses a sense of rationale or objectivity.
All he ever says when I point out it's a mere belief system is either "YOU
can say what you want, I KNOW it's the truth" or "you just don't get it".
It's the old brick wall and head scenario.
I like to hit them with this. "See that chair over there? Do you
believe there is a chair over there? You know what? I *know* there is
a chair over there. Can you see the difference?"
Unfortunately, they cannot. Because they proceed to re-define the word
"know".
--
Uncle Vic
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC department of little adhesive-backed shiny plastic
L-shaped doo-dads to add feet to Jesus Fish department
It is safe to say that the bible contains equal amounts of fact, history
and pizza.
-Penn Jillette
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Assistance from the wise PLEASE !! |
15 Apr 2006 04:20:44 AM |
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On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 20:14:40 -0700, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <rpednWigVa5s-d3ZnZ2dnUVZ_sadnZ2d@comcast.com>
Stephen wrote:
"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:1145037640.250777.14150@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I think the notion of a magic invisible man is indeed stretching
credibility....that's all you need to say. It's sufficient reason for
you to not believe, after all.
Jim
Oh if only it were ! But remember we're dealing with someone who's
brainwashed and thus no longer posesses a sense of rationale or objectivity.
All he ever says when I point out it's a mere belief system is either "YOU
can say what you want, I KNOW it's the truth" or "you just don't get it".
It's the old brick wall and head scenario.
I like to hit them with this. "See that chair over there? Do you
believe there is a chair over there? You know what? I *know* there is
a chair over there. Can you see the difference?"
Unfortunately, they cannot. Because they proceed to re-define the word
"know".
And then "chair".
Followed in close order by "over", and "See", and "smack-on-the-head".
--
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