| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"paul abeles" |
| Date: |
04 Jan 2004 07:25:55 PM |
| Object: |
Ataturk on Islam |
"For nearly five hundred years, these rules and theories of an Arab Shaikh
and the interpretations of generations of lazy and good-for-nothing priests
have decided the civil and criminal law of Turkey. They have decided the
form of the Constitution, the details of the lives of each Turk, his food,
his hours of rising and sleeping the shape of his clothes, the routine of
the midwife who produced his children, what he learned in his schools, his
customs, his thoughts-even his most intimate habits. Islam-this theology of
an immoral Arab-is a dead thing. Possibly it might have suited tribes in the
desert. It is no good for modern, progressive state. God's revelation! There
is no God! These are only the chains by which the priests and bad rulers
bound the people down. A ruler who needs religion is a weaklings. No
weaklings should rule!" The Grey Wolf, pp. 199-200
.
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| User: "Nikephoros_Phokas" |
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| Title: Re: Ataturk on Islam |
07 Jan 2004 11:34:16 AM |
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"paul abeles" <nospam....paabeles@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<D23Kb.77893$aT.12993@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
"For nearly five hundred years, these rules and theories of an Arab Shaikh
and the interpretations of generations of lazy and good-for-nothing priests
have decided the civil and criminal law of Turkey. They have decided the
form of the Constitution, the details of the lives of each Turk, his food,
his hours of rising and sleeping the shape of his clothes, the routine of
the midwife who produced his children, what he learned in his schools, his
customs, his thoughts-even his most intimate habits. Islam-this theology of
an immoral Arab-is a dead thing. Possibly it might have suited tribes in the
desert. It is no good for modern, progressive state. God's revelation! There
is no God! These are only the chains by which the priests and bad rulers
bound the people down. A ruler who needs religion is a weaklings. No
weaklings should rule!" The Grey Wolf, pp. 199-200
Do you respect Ataturk? Be careful with alot of these biographies of
him boasting that they use Turkish sources, because in Turkey it is
illegal to criticize him, though I personally have not read any of
these Western Turkophile accounts of Ataturk.
When Smyrna was entered by the Kemalist Nationalists a notice was
circulated saying that Mustafa Kemal himself promised, the Christians,
Greeks and Armenians had nothing to fear from his forces. This was a
blatant lie, as in Islamic tradition the soldiers were allowed to
loot, plunder and rape as a reward. The Armenians were massacred
systematically, the Greeks were massacred but there were less of an
attempt to kill them all, because there were too many Greeks, and
because there was still a powerful Greek army in Thrace that could
have attacked the Kemalists. How anti-Islamic is it to allow a period
of pillage and rape just like any typical Islamic army, while fooling
the local Christians with a note saying they will not be harmed?
My source for this is:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0966745108/qid=1073494875//ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i0_xgl14/102-4322672-5799362?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
"Smyrna 1922: The Destruction of a City" by Marjorie Housepian Dobkin
and for the info about the Greek army in Thrace: "Unification of
Greece 1770-1923" by Douglas Dakin.
In the work: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1571810161/qid=1073495506//ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i5_xgl14/102-4322672-5799362?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
"The History of the Armenian Genocide: Ethnic Conflict from the
Balkans to Anatolia to the Caucasus" by Vahakn Dadrian, when Karabekir
another Kemalist leader was planning to invade Russian Armenia with
the power vacum allowed by the collapse of the Russian armies there
due to Bolshevism, Mustafa Kemal advised against this, not because he
thought it was wrong, but because Kemal thought this would bring upon
the wrath of the Christian powers! Later he changed his opinion when
he thought no one would intefer with this invasion, luckily at the
last second Russian Armenia was Sovietizied by a Boleshevik army and
the cowardly Kemalist forces left because they do not fight unless
their opponent is handicapped. Some anti-Islamic figure he is, he
would have annihilated Christian Russian Armenia if not for the Soviet
Armies' intervention.
Do not believe the hype, if Turkey is so secular why are the
non-muslims today down to less then 100,000 combined when the Greeks
of Constantinople alone were much higher than that number when Turkey
was founded? Secular countries do not drive away populations and try
to destroy their existence within their boundaries because of
religion.
Can you tell if the biography of him you read mentioned some of the
things I mentioned from the sources I cited? Did it contain honest
info of his views on the invasion of Russian Armenia, how he
essentially duped the Christians of Smyrna into thinking they were
protected, etc.?
.
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| User: "paul abeles" |
|
| Title: Re: Ataturk on Islam |
07 Jan 2004 07:22:45 PM |
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"Nikephoros_Phokas" <Nikephoros_Phokas@pathfinder.gr> wrote in message
news:d2ba0d3f.0401070934.4fe4f5a4@posting.google.com...
"paul abeles" <nospam....paabeles@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<D23Kb.77893$aT.12993@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
"For nearly five hundred years, these rules and theories of an Arab
Shaikh
and the interpretations of generations of lazy and good-for-nothing
priests
have decided the civil and criminal law of Turkey. They have decided the
form of the Constitution, the details of the lives of each Turk, his
food,
his hours of rising and sleeping the shape of his clothes, the routine
of
the midwife who produced his children, what he learned in his schools,
his
customs, his thoughts-even his most intimate habits. Islam-this theology
of
an immoral Arab-is a dead thing. Possibly it might have suited tribes in
the
desert. It is no good for modern, progressive state. God's revelation!
There
is no God! These are only the chains by which the priests and bad rulers
bound the people down. A ruler who needs religion is a weaklings. No
weaklings should rule!" The Grey Wolf, pp. 199-200
Do you respect Ataturk? Be careful with alot of these biographies of
him boasting that they use Turkish sources, because in Turkey it is
illegal to criticize him, though I personally have not read any of
these Western Turkophile accounts of Ataturk.
When Smyrna was entered by the Kemalist Nationalists a notice was
circulated saying that Mustafa Kemal himself promised, the Christians,
Greeks and Armenians had nothing to fear from his forces. This was a
blatant lie, as in Islamic tradition the soldiers were allowed to
loot, plunder and rape as a reward. The Armenians were massacred
systematically, the Greeks were massacred but there were less of an
attempt to kill them all, because there were too many Greeks, and
because there was still a powerful Greek army in Thrace that could
have attacked the Kemalists. How anti-Islamic is it to allow a period
of pillage and rape just like any typical Islamic army, while fooling
the local Christians with a note saying they will not be harmed?
My source for this is:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0966745108/qid=1073494875//ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i0_xgl14/102-4322672-5799362?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
"Smyrna 1922: The Destruction of a City" by Marjorie Housepian Dobkin
and for the info about the Greek army in Thrace: "Unification of
Greece 1770-1923" by Douglas Dakin.
In the work:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1571810161/qid=1073495506//ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i5_xgl14/102-4322672-5799362?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
"The History of the Armenian Genocide: Ethnic Conflict from the
Balkans to Anatolia to the Caucasus" by Vahakn Dadrian, when Karabekir
another Kemalist leader was planning to invade Russian Armenia with
the power vacum allowed by the collapse of the Russian armies there
due to Bolshevism, Mustafa Kemal advised against this, not because he
thought it was wrong, but because Kemal thought this would bring upon
the wrath of the Christian powers! Later he changed his opinion when
he thought no one would intefer with this invasion, luckily at the
last second Russian Armenia was Sovietizied by a Boleshevik army and
the cowardly Kemalist forces left because they do not fight unless
their opponent is handicapped. Some anti-Islamic figure he is, he
would have annihilated Christian Russian Armenia if not for the Soviet
Armies' intervention.
Do not believe the hype, if Turkey is so secular why are the
non-muslims today down to less then 100,000 combined when the Greeks
of Constantinople alone were much higher than that number when Turkey
was founded? Secular countries do not drive away populations and try
to destroy their existence within their boundaries because of
religion.
Can you tell if the biography of him you read mentioned some of the
things I mentioned from the sources I cited? Did it contain honest
info of his views on the invasion of Russian Armenia, how he
essentially duped the Christians of Smyrna into thinking they were
protected, etc.?
Facts challenge your Greek view of the actual events.
.
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| User: "Nikephoros_Phokas" |
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| Title: Re: Ataturk on Islam |
10 Jan 2004 01:27:40 AM |
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[...]
Facts challenge your Greek view of the actual events.
Let us here these facts then, I guess you have no facts or else you
would have given them.
If you are gonna criticize Islam, a religion I have no respect for, at
least do not do it using some figure like Mustafa Kemal, and his crazy
nationalist insults accusing it is being ok for arab tribes of the
past but not modern Turks. The Turkish tribesmen who invaded Anatolia
were nomadic tribes at a time when so much of Islamic civilization was
sedentarized(sedentarized through conversion to Islam of non-muslims
through humiliation and other methods). I do agree with his
characterizations about Islam invading every space of personal life,
but if you are gonna criticize Islam with some historical figure, pick
someone better then a Turkish militarist, who is fighting imams and
other muslim clerics for control of society. Is this a good model for
the muslim world? To emerge from Islam invading every space of life,
to the military invading so many of these spaces of personal life in
its place? A military that has extensive financial holdings, a
military that dominates much of government policy through the National
Security Council, etc.
How about how Turkey is trying to portray the Kemalists as national
liberators, along with alot of these biographies of Ataturk in
English? National liberators, from what, the Ottoman Empire, where for
so long the concept of umma(community of Islamic believers) ensured
that the Turks and other muslims were the dominant groups. How can it
be stated that a group was nationally liberated from the Ottoman
Empire, when they went from being the dominant group in the Ottoman
Empire to the dominant group in Turkey? From umma as dominant group in
Ottoman discourse, to Turks as dominant in the national Turkish state.
Without this concept of umma the Turks may very well have not
transformed from nomads, without the conversions of sedentary
populations to Islam(through humiliation degradation and the
destruction of the church structure) and joining the umma. Ataturk in
his diatribes against Islam does not address that Islam was the pillar
of Turkish identity at his time.
http://www.mfa.gov.tr/grupc/ca/cab/hat_dress.htm
.... "The Gazi[refering to Mustafa Kemal] was going to make use of this
to put into practice the social reforms on which he had long
meditated." ...
This official Turkish government site refers to him as gazi many
times, and above is just one example, what is a GHAZI?
.... "For some time past the Moslem frontier barons had been given the
title of ghazi, warrior of the Faith. The ghazi was a rough equivalent
to a Christian knight." ... (This tract is refering to the
muslim-Byzantine frontier and the near constant warfare there.)
Runciman, Steven, "The fall of Constantinople: 1453", (Cambridge
University Press, 1965) 26.
Also check: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=ghazi
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| User: "Yang" |
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| Title: Re: Ataturk on Islam |
05 Jan 2004 01:35:17 AM |
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On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 01:25:55 GMT, "paul abeles"
<nospam....paabeles@hotmail.com> wrote:
"For nearly five hundred years, these rules and theories of an Arab Shaikh
and the interpretations of generations of lazy and good-for-nothing priests
have decided the civil and criminal law of Turkey. They have decided the
form of the Constitution, the details of the lives of each Turk, his food,
his hours of rising and sleeping the shape of his clothes, the routine of
the midwife who produced his children, what he learned in his schools, his
customs, his thoughts-even his most intimate habits. Islam-this theology of
an immoral Arab-is a dead thing. Possibly it might have suited tribes in the
desert. It is no good for modern, progressive state. God's revelation! There
is no God! These are only the chains by which the priests and bad rulers
bound the people down. A ruler who needs religion is a weaklings. No
weaklings should rule!" The Grey Wolf, pp. 199-200
Of course we should take note that Islam does not have a monopoly on
good-for-nothing priests.
-----
Yang
a.a. #28
a.a. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee Kelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Socerey Division
Proudly plonked by Lani Girl and Crazyalec
The Bush 'balanced' budget: -525 billion and worsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: -3 million jobs and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -484 GIs, one friend's co-worker's son and mounting
Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless
.
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| User: "Bill Levinson" |
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| Title: Re: Ataturk on Islam |
04 Jan 2004 11:17:03 PM |
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paul abeles wrote:
"For nearly five hundred years, these rules and theories of an Arab Shaikh
and the interpretations of generations of lazy and good-for-nothing priests
have decided the civil and criminal law of Turkey. They have decided the
form of the Constitution, the details of the lives of each Turk, his food,
his hours of rising and sleeping the shape of his clothes, the routine of
the midwife who produced his children, what he learned in his schools, his
customs, his thoughts-even his most intimate habits. Islam-this theology of
an immoral Arab-is a dead thing. Possibly it might have suited tribes in the
desert. It is no good for modern, progressive state. God's revelation! There
is no God! These are only the chains by which the priests and bad rulers
bound the people down. A ruler who needs religion is a weaklings. No
weaklings should rule!" The Grey Wolf, pp. 199-200
Kemal Ataturk is why Turkey has a higher standard of living and more
civil rights than in any other Muslim-majority nation in the Middle East.
--Bill
http://www.omdurman.org/
.
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| User: "amigocabal" |
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| Title: Re: Ataturk on Islam |
05 Jan 2004 06:17:09 AM |
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"Bill Levinson" <wlevinso@ix.NOSPAM4MEnetcom.com> wrote in message
news:jr6Kb.24521$IM3.10100@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
paul abeles wrote:
"For nearly five hundred years, these rules and theories of an Arab
Shaikh
and the interpretations of generations of lazy and good-for-nothing
priests
have decided the civil and criminal law of Turkey. They have decided the
form of the Constitution, the details of the lives of each Turk, his
food,
his hours of rising and sleeping the shape of his clothes, the routine
of
the midwife who produced his children, what he learned in his schools,
his
customs, his thoughts-even his most intimate habits. Islam-this theology
of
an immoral Arab-is a dead thing. Possibly it might have suited tribes in
the
desert. It is no good for modern, progressive state. God's revelation!
There
is no God! These are only the chains by which the priests and bad rulers
bound the people down. A ruler who needs religion is a weaklings. No
weaklings should rule!" The Grey Wolf, pp. 199-200
Kemal Ataturk is why Turkey has a higher standard of living and more
civil rights than in any other Muslim-majority nation in the Middle East.
--Bill
Are you suggesting that atheism is the way to go for the Jews?
.
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| User: "paul abeles" |
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| Title: Re: Ataturk on Islam |
05 Jan 2004 06:38:40 PM |
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"amigocabal" <pinkspider123@earthlink.com> wrote in message
news:9BcKb.25590$IM3.9729@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"Bill Levinson" <wlevinso@ix.NOSPAM4MEnetcom.com> wrote in message
news:jr6Kb.24521$IM3.10100@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
paul abeles wrote:
"For nearly five hundred years, these rules and theories of an Arab
Shaikh
and the interpretations of generations of lazy and good-for-nothing
priests
have decided the civil and criminal law of Turkey. They have decided
the
form of the Constitution, the details of the lives of each Turk, his
food,
his hours of rising and sleeping the shape of his clothes, the routine
of
the midwife who produced his children, what he learned in his schools,
his
customs, his thoughts-even his most intimate habits. Islam-this
theology
of
an immoral Arab-is a dead thing. Possibly it might have suited tribes
in
the
desert. It is no good for modern, progressive state. God's revelation!
There
is no God! These are only the chains by which the priests and bad
rulers
bound the people down. A ruler who needs religion is a weaklings. No
weaklings should rule!" The Grey Wolf, pp. 199-200
Kemal Ataturk is why Turkey has a higher standard of living and more
civil rights than in any other Muslim-majority nation in the Middle
East.
--Bill
Are you suggesting that atheism is the way to go for the Jews?
He may not be, but I encourage a good education for all, atheism will then
follow.
.
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| User: "amigocabal" |
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| Title: Re: Ataturk on Islam |
06 Jan 2004 09:38:58 PM |
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"paul abeles" <nospam....paabeles@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ksnKb.79264$aT.53782@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
"amigocabal" <pinkspider123@earthlink.com> wrote in message
news:9BcKb.25590$IM3.9729@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"Bill Levinson" <wlevinso@ix.NOSPAM4MEnetcom.com> wrote in message
news:jr6Kb.24521$IM3.10100@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
paul abeles wrote:
"For nearly five hundred years, these rules and theories of an Arab
Shaikh
and the interpretations of generations of lazy and good-for-nothing
priests
have decided the civil and criminal law of Turkey. They have decided
the
form of the Constitution, the details of the lives of each Turk, his
food,
his hours of rising and sleeping the shape of his clothes, the
routine
of
the midwife who produced his children, what he learned in his
schools,
his
customs, his thoughts-even his most intimate habits. Islam-this
theology
of
an immoral Arab-is a dead thing. Possibly it might have suited
tribes
in
the
desert. It is no good for modern, progressive state. God's
revelation!
There
is no God! These are only the chains by which the priests and bad
rulers
bound the people down. A ruler who needs religion is a weaklings. No
weaklings should rule!" The Grey Wolf, pp. 199-200
Kemal Ataturk is why Turkey has a higher standard of living and more
civil rights than in any other Muslim-majority nation in the Middle
East.
--Bill
Are you suggesting that atheism is the way to go for the Jews?
He may not be, but I encourage a good education for all, atheism will
then
follow.
Somehow I smell a rat there! Are you suggesting that devotees of religions
are uneducated?
.
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| User: "paul abeles" |
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| Title: Re: Ataturk on Islam |
07 Jan 2004 05:59:34 AM |
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"amigocabal" <pinkspider123@earthlink.com> wrote in message
news:mbLKb.29303$IM3.15207@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"paul abeles" <nospam....paabeles@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ksnKb.79264$aT.53782@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
"amigocabal" <pinkspider123@earthlink.com> wrote in message
news:9BcKb.25590$IM3.9729@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"Bill Levinson" <wlevinso@ix.NOSPAM4MEnetcom.com> wrote in message
news:jr6Kb.24521$IM3.10100@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
paul abeles wrote:
"For nearly five hundred years, these rules and theories of an
Arab
Shaikh
and the interpretations of generations of lazy and
good-for-nothing
priests
have decided the civil and criminal law of Turkey. They have
decided
the
form of the Constitution, the details of the lives of each Turk,
his
food,
his hours of rising and sleeping the shape of his clothes, the
routine
of
the midwife who produced his children, what he learned in his
schools,
his
customs, his thoughts-even his most intimate habits. Islam-this
theology
of
an immoral Arab-is a dead thing. Possibly it might have suited
tribes
in
the
desert. It is no good for modern, progressive state. God's
revelation!
There
is no God! These are only the chains by which the priests and bad
rulers
bound the people down. A ruler who needs religion is a weaklings.
No
weaklings should rule!" The Grey Wolf, pp. 199-200
Kemal Ataturk is why Turkey has a higher standard of living and more
civil rights than in any other Muslim-majority nation in the Middle
East.
--Bill
Are you suggesting that atheism is the way to go for the Jews?
He may not be, but I encourage a good education for all, atheism will
then
follow.
Somehow I smell a rat there! Are you suggesting that devotees of
religions
are uneducated?
They are limited, they generally have closed minds, eg. evolution
.
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| User: "Mickey" |
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| Title: Re: Ataturk on Islam |
05 Jan 2004 06:54:05 AM |
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"amigocabal" <pinkspider123@earthlink.com> wrote in message
news:9BcKb.25590$IM3.9729@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"Bill Levinson" <wlevinso@ix.NOSPAM4MEnetcom.com> wrote in message
news:jr6Kb.24521$IM3.10100@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
paul abeles wrote:
"For nearly five hundred years, these rules and theories of an Arab
Shaikh
and the interpretations of generations of lazy and good-for-nothing
priests
have decided the civil and criminal law of Turkey. They have decided
the
form of the Constitution, the details of the lives of each Turk, his
food,
his hours of rising and sleeping the shape of his clothes, the routine
of
the midwife who produced his children, what he learned in his schools,
his
customs, his thoughts-even his most intimate habits. Islam-this
theology
of
an immoral Arab-is a dead thing. Possibly it might have suited tribes
in
the
desert. It is no good for modern, progressive state. God's revelation!
There
is no God! These are only the chains by which the priests and bad
rulers
bound the people down. A ruler who needs religion is a weaklings. No
weaklings should rule!" The Grey Wolf, pp. 199-200
Kemal Ataturk is why Turkey has a higher standard of living and more
civil rights than in any other Muslim-majority nation in the Middle
East.
--Bill
Are you suggesting that atheism is the way to go for the Jews?
No, for Arabs. Maybe that way, they won't spend SO MUCH of their time
killing each other, which is what they seem to do best, the filthy butchers.
Mickey
.
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| User: "amigocabal" |
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| Title: Re: Ataturk on Islam |
05 Jan 2004 10:32:50 PM |
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"Mickey" <mickeyb@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:tYmdnadaYsljw2SiRVn-vA@comcast.com...
"amigocabal" <pinkspider123@earthlink.com> wrote in message
news:9BcKb.25590$IM3.9729@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"Bill Levinson" <wlevinso@ix.NOSPAM4MEnetcom.com> wrote in message
news:jr6Kb.24521$IM3.10100@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
paul abeles wrote:
"For nearly five hundred years, these rules and theories of an Arab
Shaikh
and the interpretations of generations of lazy and good-for-nothing
priests
have decided the civil and criminal law of Turkey. They have decided
the
form of the Constitution, the details of the lives of each Turk, his
food,
his hours of rising and sleeping the shape of his clothes, the
routine
of
the midwife who produced his children, what he learned in his
schools,
his
customs, his thoughts-even his most intimate habits. Islam-this
theology
of
an immoral Arab-is a dead thing. Possibly it might have suited
tribes
in
the
desert. It is no good for modern, progressive state. God's
revelation!
There
is no God! These are only the chains by which the priests and bad
rulers
bound the people down. A ruler who needs religion is a weaklings. No
weaklings should rule!" The Grey Wolf, pp. 199-200
Kemal Ataturk is why Turkey has a higher standard of living and more
civil rights than in any other Muslim-majority nation in the Middle
East.
--Bill
Are you suggesting that atheism is the way to go for the Jews?
No, for Arabs. Maybe that way, they won't spend SO MUCH of their time
killing each other, which is what they seem to do best, the filthy
butchers.
Mickey
YOUR DOG TAG NUMBER, PIG!
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| User: "Samir Ribic" |
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| Title: Re: Ataturk on Islam |
09 Jan 2004 08:24:00 AM |
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Kemal Ataturk is why Turkey has a higher standard of living and more
civil rights than in any other Muslim-majority nation in the Middle East.
--Bill
Are you suggesting that atheism is the way to go for the Jews?
Why not! The most of Israelians I know personally are atheists. I find
them very tolerant and agrable. They were good friends to me in spite
my arabic name (and slavic family name, btw). They gave me completely
different picture than I have about Israel. Until I met them, I always
imagined Israel as horrible militaristic country who commited genocide
against neighbour people every 10 years. The nonreligious Jews will
visit arabic shop on Saturday and Jewish shop on Friday. This is one
of steps to the tolerancy. And I believe that tolerancy is more
important for mankind than worshiping imagined gods from old books.
.
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Ataturk on Islam |
09 Jan 2004 12:02:45 PM |
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"Samir Ribic" <samir.ribic@alemsistem.com.ba> wrote in message
news:f9e33c87.0401090624.5a7e7699@posting.google.com...
Kemal Ataturk is why Turkey has a higher standard of living and more
civil rights than in any other Muslim-majority nation in the Middle
East.
--Bill
Are you suggesting that atheism is the way to go for the Jews?
Why not! The most of Israelians I know personally are atheists. I find
them very tolerant and agrable. They were good friends to me in spite
my arabic name (and slavic family name, btw). They gave me completely
different picture than I have about Israel. Until I met them, I always
imagined Israel as horrible militaristic country who commited genocide
against neighbour people every 10 years. The nonreligious Jews will
visit arabic shop on Saturday and Jewish shop on Friday. This is one
of steps to the tolerancy. And I believe that tolerancy is more
important for mankind than worshiping imagined gods from old books.
You are certainly proof that it rots the brain.
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| User: "P. A. Abeles" |
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| Title: Re: Ataturk on Islam |
10 Jan 2004 01:24:22 AM |
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"Susan Cohen" <flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:91CLb.323$3E.39@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
"Samir Ribic" <samir.ribic@alemsistem.com.ba> wrote in message
news:f9e33c87.0401090624.5a7e7699@posting.google.com...
Kemal Ataturk is why Turkey has a higher standard of living and more
civil rights than in any other Muslim-majority nation in the Middle
East.
--Bill
Are you suggesting that atheism is the way to go for the Jews?
Why not! The most of Israelians I know personally are atheists. I find
them very tolerant and agrable. They were good friends to me in spite
my arabic name (and slavic family name, btw). They gave me completely
different picture than I have about Israel. Until I met them, I always
imagined Israel as horrible militaristic country who commited genocide
against neighbour people every 10 years. The nonreligious Jews will
visit arabic shop on Saturday and Jewish shop on Friday. This is one
of steps to the tolerancy. And I believe that tolerancy is more
important for mankind than worshiping imagined gods from old books.
You are certainly proof that it rots the brain.
You madam are another weapon for the anti-Semites.
You create more ill-will towards Jews than most virulent anti-Semites.
.
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| User: "Mekkala" |
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| Title: Re: Ataturk on Islam |
07 Jan 2004 11:44:19 AM |
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On 04 Jan 2004, Bill Levinson <wlevinso@ix.NOSPAM4MEnetcom.com> screwed
up his face, groaned, pushed hard, and farted out the following message
in news:jr6Kb.24521$IM3.10100@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:
paul abeles wrote:
"For nearly five hundred years, these rules and theories of an Arab
Shaikh and the interpretations of generations of lazy and
good-for-nothing priests have decided the civil and criminal law of
Turkey. They have decided the form of the Constitution, the details
of the lives of each Turk, his food, his hours of rising and sleeping
the shape of his clothes, the routine of the midwife who produced his
children, what he learned in his schools, his customs, his
thoughts-even his most intimate habits. Islam-this theology of an
immoral Arab-is a dead thing. Possibly it might have suited tribes in
the desert. It is no good for modern, progressive state. God's
revelation! There is no God! These are only the chains by which the
priests and bad rulers bound the people down. A ruler who needs
religion is a weaklings. No weaklings should rule!" The Grey Wolf,
pp. 199-200
Kemal Ataturk is why Turkey has a higher standard of living and more
civil rights than in any other Muslim-majority nation in the Middle
East.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Kemal Ataturk involved in the
Armenian genocide? I mean, I know it was the Young Turks who did most
of it, but I've also heard that Ataturk himself was hardly innocent in
the matter.
--
Mekkala, Atheist #2148
"Atheism is ... the bed-rock of sanity in a world of madness."
--Emmett F. Fields
.
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| User: "paul abeles" |
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| Title: Re: Ataturk on Islam |
07 Jan 2004 07:21:33 PM |
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"Mekkala" <joremovedathiskimtoreply@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:Xns946977B4CB63DMekkala@199.45.49.11...
On 04 Jan 2004, Bill Levinson <wlevinso@ix.NOSPAM4MEnetcom.com> screwed
up his face, groaned, pushed hard, and farted out the following message
in news:jr6Kb.24521$IM3.10100@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:
paul abeles wrote:
"For nearly five hundred years, these rules and theories of an Arab
Shaikh and the interpretations of generations of lazy and
good-for-nothing priests have decided the civil and criminal law of
Turkey. They have decided the form of the Constitution, the details
of the lives of each Turk, his food, his hours of rising and sleeping
the shape of his clothes, the routine of the midwife who produced his
children, what he learned in his schools, his customs, his
thoughts-even his most intimate habits. Islam-this theology of an
immoral Arab-is a dead thing. Possibly it might have suited tribes in
the desert. It is no good for modern, progressive state. God's
revelation! There is no God! These are only the chains by which the
priests and bad rulers bound the people down. A ruler who needs
religion is a weaklings. No weaklings should rule!" The Grey Wolf,
pp. 199-200
Kemal Ataturk is why Turkey has a higher standard of living and more
civil rights than in any other Muslim-majority nation in the Middle
East.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Kemal Ataturk involved in the
Armenian genocide? I mean, I know it was the Young Turks who did most
of it, but I've also heard that Ataturk himself was hardly innocent in
the matter.
Only the Armenians call it a genocide. It wasn't. Try reading some history
on it.
.
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| User: "Mekkala" |
|
| Title: Re: Ataturk on Islam |
08 Jan 2004 09:15:14 AM |
|
|
On 07 Jan 2004, "paul abeles" <nospam....paabeles@hotmail.com> screwed
up his face, groaned, pushed hard, and farted out the following message
in news:xg2Lb.302$Wa.52@news-server.bigpond.net.au:
"Mekkala" <joremovedathiskimtoreply@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:Xns946977B4CB63DMekkala@199.45.49.11...
On 04 Jan 2004, Bill Levinson <wlevinso@ix.NOSPAM4MEnetcom.com>
screwed up his face, groaned, pushed hard, and farted out the
following message in
news:jr6Kb.24521$IM3.10100@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:
paul abeles wrote:
"For nearly five hundred years, these rules and theories of an
Arab Shaikh and the interpretations of generations of lazy and
good-for-nothing priests have decided the civil and criminal law
of Turkey. They have decided the form of the Constitution, the
details of the lives of each Turk, his food, his hours of rising
and sleeping the shape of his clothes, the routine of the midwife
who produced his children, what he learned in his schools, his
customs, his thoughts-even his most intimate habits. Islam-this
theology of an immoral Arab-is a dead thing. Possibly it might
have suited tribes in the desert. It is no good for modern,
progressive state. God's revelation! There is no God! These are
only the chains by which the priests and bad rulers bound the
people down. A ruler who needs religion is a weaklings. No
weaklings should rule!" The Grey Wolf, pp. 199-200
Kemal Ataturk is why Turkey has a higher standard of living and
more civil rights than in any other Muslim-majority nation in the
Middle East.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Kemal Ataturk involved in the
Armenian genocide? I mean, I know it was the Young Turks who did
most of it, but I've also heard that Ataturk himself was hardly
innocent in the matter.
Only the Armenians call it a genocide. It wasn't. Try reading some
history
on it.
So what would you call it -- a justified extermination? Can you justify
the mass slaughter of a race? I *have* read a fair amount of history on
it, and I can't see how, exactly, you can call it anything other than
genocide.
--
Mekkala, Atheist #2148
"Atheism is ... the bed-rock of sanity in a world of madness."
--Emmett F. Fields
.
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| User: "Paul Abeles" |
|
| Title: Re: Ataturk on Islam |
08 Jan 2004 08:41:37 PM |
|
|
"Mekkala" <joremovedathiskimtoreply@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:Xns946A5E6ECCF33Mekkala@199.45.49.11...
On 07 Jan 2004, "paul abeles" <nospam....paabeles@hotmail.com> screwed
up his face, groaned, pushed hard, and farted out the following message
in news:xg2Lb.302$Wa.52@news-server.bigpond.net.au:
"Mekkala" <joremovedathiskimtoreply@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:Xns946977B4CB63DMekkala@199.45.49.11...
On 04 Jan 2004, Bill Levinson <wlevinso@ix.NOSPAM4MEnetcom.com>
screwed up his face, groaned, pushed hard, and farted out the
following message in
news:jr6Kb.24521$IM3.10100@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:
paul abeles wrote:
"For nearly five hundred years, these rules and theories of an
Arab Shaikh and the interpretations of generations of lazy and
good-for-nothing priests have decided the civil and criminal law
of Turkey. They have decided the form of the Constitution, the
details of the lives of each Turk, his food, his hours of rising
and sleeping the shape of his clothes, the routine of the midwife
who produced his children, what he learned in his schools, his
customs, his thoughts-even his most intimate habits. Islam-this
theology of an immoral Arab-is a dead thing. Possibly it might
have suited tribes in the desert. It is no good for modern,
progressive state. God's revelation! There is no God! These are
only the chains by which the priests and bad rulers bound the
people down. A ruler who needs religion is a weaklings. No
weaklings should rule!" The Grey Wolf, pp. 199-200
Kemal Ataturk is why Turkey has a higher standard of living and
more civil rights than in any other Muslim-majority nation in the
Middle East.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Kemal Ataturk involved in the
Armenian genocide? I mean, I know it was the Young Turks who did
most of it, but I've also heard that Ataturk himself was hardly
innocent in the matter.
Only the Armenians call it a genocide. It wasn't. Try reading some
history
on it.
So what would you call it -- a justified extermination? Can you justify
the mass slaughter of a race? I *have* read a fair amount of history on
it, and I can't see how, exactly, you can call it anything other than
genocide.
OK supply some evidence of a "genocide". I agree Armenians were killed and
expelled on occasions, but so were many other peoples. That is not a
genocide as in the terms of the holocaust.
.
|
|
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| User: "Mekkala" |
|
| Title: Re: Ataturk on Islam |
09 Jan 2004 09:01:02 AM |
|
|
On 08 Jan 2004, "Paul Abeles" <nospampaabeles@hotmail.com> screwed up
his face, groaned, pushed hard, and farted out the following message in
news:BxoLb.1948$Wa.728@news-server.bigpond.net.au:
"Mekkala" <joremovedathiskimtoreply@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:Xns946A5E6ECCF33Mekkala@199.45.49.11...
On 07 Jan 2004, "paul abeles" <nospam....paabeles@hotmail.com>
screwed up his face, groaned, pushed hard, and farted out the
following message in news:xg2Lb.302$Wa.52@news-server.bigpond.net.au:
"Mekkala" <joremovedathiskimtoreply@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:Xns946977B4CB63DMekkala@199.45.49.11...
On 04 Jan 2004, Bill Levinson <wlevinso@ix.NOSPAM4MEnetcom.com>
screwed up his face, groaned, pushed hard, and farted out the
following message in
news:jr6Kb.24521$IM3.10100@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:
paul abeles wrote:
"For nearly five hundred years, these rules and theories of an
Arab Shaikh and the interpretations of generations of lazy and
good-for-nothing priests have decided the civil and criminal
law of Turkey. They have decided the form of the Constitution,
the details of the lives of each Turk, his food, his hours of
rising and sleeping the shape of his clothes, the routine of
the midwife who produced his children, what he learned in his
schools, his customs, his thoughts-even his most intimate
habits. Islam-this theology of an immoral Arab-is a dead thing.
Possibly it might have suited tribes in the desert. It is no
good for modern, progressive state. God's revelation! There is
no God! These are only the chains by which the priests and bad
rulers bound the people down. A ruler who needs religion is a
weaklings. No weaklings should rule!" The Grey Wolf, pp.
199-200
Kemal Ataturk is why Turkey has a higher standard of living and
more civil rights than in any other Muslim-majority nation in
the Middle East.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Kemal Ataturk involved in the
Armenian genocide? I mean, I know it was the Young Turks who did
most of it, but I've also heard that Ataturk himself was hardly
innocent in the matter.
Only the Armenians call it a genocide. It wasn't. Try reading some
history
on it.
So what would you call it -- a justified extermination? Can you
justify the mass slaughter of a race? I *have* read a fair amount of
history on it, and I can't see how, exactly, you can call it anything
other than genocide.
OK supply some evidence of a "genocide". I agree Armenians were
killed and
expelled on occasions, but so were many other peoples. That is not a
genocide as in the terms of the holocaust.
The Young Turks set out specifically to kill or drive out every Armenian
in Turkey. They succeeded to a great extent.
--
Mekkala, Atheist #2148
"Atheism is ... the bed-rock of sanity in a world of madness."
--Emmett F. Fields
.
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