| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Atheist Crusher" |
| Date: |
22 Sep 2004 10:40:00 PM |
| Object: |
Atheism--STALIN'S BRUTAL FAITH |
Some have the mistaken notion that faith and religion are linked inseparably
with the confession of a supreme being, but many exercise faith in self and
other human beings--to the exclusion of the divine. This, too, is religion.
Whatever serves as one's basic system of beliefs about his or her place and
role in the universe is certainly a faith, a religion.
Joseph Stalin, though an atheist, was a believer. His was a faith resulting
in tremendous brutality--nevertheless, a faith! What was this faith? Was it
uniquely Stalin's? Also, how brutal was it? The purpose of this article is
to offer some answers to these questions and to add insights of the eminent
authority on Russia's soul, Nobel laureate Alexander Solzhenitsyn.
STALIN'S FAITH--WHAT WAS IT?
Often an individual's faith is firmly attached to a book of some kind.
Muslims have the Koran; Hindus, their Veda; and Christians, the Bible.
Writings of Confucius, Buddha, and indeed, Mao Tse-Tung, serve similar
purposes for other groups. In Stalin's case, the writings of Marx, Engels,
and Lenin incited him, but to stop here would be premature. There is one
man-book amalgam which may have been even more determinative for Stalin,
especially during his youthful, impressionable years. The man was Charles
Darwin; the book--his The Origin of Species.
To document this, appeal is made first to a book published in Moscow
entitled, Landmarks in the Life of Stalin. It was written during Stalin's
"glory," and was designed to set him in a positive light. Note in the
selection cited, that faith in Darwin and his "book" contrasts markedly with
faith in a supreme being:
At a very early age, while still a pupil in the ecclesiastical school,
Comrade Stalin developed a critical mind and revolutionary sentiments. He
began to read Darwin and became an atheist.
G. Glurdjidze, a boyhood friend of Stalin's, relates:
"I began to speak of God, Joseph heard me out, and after a moment's
silence, said:
"'You know, they are fooling us, there is no God. . . .'
"I was astonished at these words, I had never heard anything like it
before.
"'How can you say such things, Soso?' I exclaimed.
"'I'll lend you a book to read; it will show you that the world and all
living things are quite different from what you imagine, and all this talk
about God is sheer nonsense,' Joseph said.
"'What book is that?' I enquired.
"'Darwin. You must read it,' Joseph impressed on me" 1
A few pages later, another individual--also reflecting on Stalin's youthful
pursuits, added the following:
". . .in order to disabuse the minds of our seminary students of the myth
that the world was created in six days, we had to acquaint ourselves with
the geological origin and age of the earth, and be able to prove them in
argument; we had to familiarize ourselves with Darwin's teachings."1
HAD MARX, ENGELS, AND LENIN SHARED THE SAME FAITH?
It has already been stated that Stalin was influenced by the writings of
these men. Did this dilute the effect of Darwin on him, or were these men
also affected by the same British naturalist? The answer to the second
question must be affirmative. Conway Zirkle, Professor of Botany at the
University of Pennsylvania, published a book in 1959 entitled, Evolution,
Marxian Biology, and the Social Scene, in which he cites comments made in
correspondence between Engels and Marx. As early as December 12, 1859 (only
months after The Origin of Species was published), Friedrich Engels wrote to
Karl Marx, "Darwin, whom I am just now reading, is splendid." [2] About a
year later (December 19, 1860), Marx, the Father of Communism, responded,
"During my time of trial, these last few weeks, I have read all sorts of
things. Among others, Darwin's book of Natural Selection. Although it is
developed in the crude English style, this is the book which contains the
basis in natural history for our view." 2 To one Ferdinand Lassalle, he
wrote (January 16, 1861), "Darwin's book is very important and serves me as
a basis in natural science for the class struggle in history." [2] Zirkle
also indicated that Marx wanted to dedicate Das Kapital to Darwin. 2
Harvard's Stephen Jay Gould, an intense and modern spokesman for evolution,
corroborates this by reporting that he saw Darwin's copy of Marx's first
volume inscribed by Marx--describing himself as a "sincere admirer" of the
English naturalist. 3
Ruis credits Vladimir Lenin with the following commentary on Darwin:
Darwin put an end to the belief that the animal and vegetable species bear
no relation to one another, except by chance, and that they were created by
God, and hence immutable. 4
HOW BRUTAL WAS STALIN'S FAITH?
The 20th century has been one of tyranny and mass genocide. One needs only
to remember the two million Cambodians slaughtered under Pol Pot, the six
million Jews exterminated by Adolf Hitler, and the 20 million helpless lives
aborted in America. Leading the list of atrocities, however, might well be
the millions of Russian people eliminated under Stalin's murderous rule.
Harrison E. Salisbury of The New York Times, described the Soviet system of
prison camps as "a whole continent of terror. . . . Compared with those who
brought about the hundreds of thousands of executions and the millions of
deaths in the Soviet terror system, the Czars seem almost benign. . . . Our
minds boggle at the thought of a systematized, routine evil, under which
three or four or more million men and women were sentenced each year to
forced labor and eternal exile--and in a manner so casual that the prisoners
often were not even told what their sentences were. . . ." 5
SOLZHENITZYN'S INSIGHTS
In 1983, Alexander I. Solzhenitsyn, winner of the 1970 Nobel Prize for
Literature, gave an address in London in which he attempted to explain why
so much evil had befallen his people:
Over a half century ago, while I was still a child, I recall hearing a
number of old people offer the following explanation for the great disasters
that had befallen Russia: "Men have forgotten God; that's why all this has
happened."
Since then I have spend well-nigh 50 years working on the history of our
revolution; in the process I have read hundreds of books, collected hundreds
of personal testimonies, and have already contributed eight volumes of my
own toward the effort of clearing away the rubble left by that upheaval. But
if I were asked today to formulate as concisely as possible the main cause
of the ruinous revolution that swallowed up some 60 million of our people, I
could not put it more accurately than to repeat: "Men have forgotten God;
that's why all this has happened." 6
But has Solzhenitsyn considered any relationship involving Soviet
oppression, Stalin's terror, and Darwin's theories on origin? In his
towering book, The Gulag Archipelago, Solzhenitsyn recounts an incident
which apparently took place in 1937-38 at a district Party conference
meeting in Moscow Province. The secretary (replacing an arrested one) was
paying tribute to Comrade Stalin. The group, including the new secretary,
was standing and applauding their esteemed Leader. Even a single minute of
feverish clapping consumes energy, but in this case it was important to
sustain the "enthusiasm" much longer. Three, four, five minutes passed and
more! Tired arms!--but who could risk stopping? Seven, eight, and nine
minutes elapsed. It was absurd! Finally after eleven minutes (!), a local
factory director stopped clapping and sat down. All followed suit, but that
night the one who stopped first was arrested and given ten years! He was
told, "Don't ever be the first to stop applauding!" Solzhenitsyn queries,
"And just what are we supposed to do? How are we supposed to stop?" 7 In
harmony with the position of this article, he adds:
Now that's what Darwin's natural selection is. And that's also how to
grind people down with stupidity. 7
CONCLUSION
In a previous article, 8 the present author documented the thesis that
Hitler was a fanatical evolutionist. Evolutionary language and terms were
shown to be used in Hitler's Mein Kampf. Sir Arthur Keith summarized,
"Hitler (was) an uncompromising evolutionist, and we must seek for an
evolutionary explanation if we are to understand his action." 9
This present article relates Stalin, along with the Fathers of Communism, to
the same concepts. The attachments of these men to Darwin have been made
explicit, and, again, it would seem wise to include evolutionary
explanations if we want fully to understand their actions. Of Hitler it may
be said that he killed millions; of these men--and especially of
Stalin--tens of millions!
Of course none of this either proves or disproves the theory itself, but it
does strongly suggest that much evil has entered the world under the
tutelage of Darwin's theory.
Henry Fairfield Osborn once wrote, "The ethical principle inherent in
evolution is that only the best has a right to survive. . . ." 10 Jesus,
however, was concerned to heal the sick and deformed. He showed compassion
for the weak and enfeebled. Not much of a follower of evolution's "ethical
principle" was He, but, then again, one would hardly expect this from the
Creator.
"Men have forgotten God;
that's why all this has happened."
REFERENCES
1 E. Yaroslavsky, Landmarks in the Life of Stalin (Moscow: Foreign
Languages Publishing house, 1940), pp. 8-12.
2 Conway Zirkle, Evolution, Marxian Biology, and the Social Scene
(Philadelphia: University of Pennsylvania Press, 1959), pp. 85-87.
3 Stephen Jay Gould, Ever Since Darwin (New York: W. W. Norton and Co.,
Inc., 1977), p. 26.
4 Eduardo del Rio (pseudonym="Rius"), Marx for Beginners (New York:
Pantheon Books, 1976), Glossary, n.p.
5 Harrison E. Salisbury, "Reading The Gulag Archipelago is like no other
reading experience of our day," Book-of-the-Month Club NEWS, Midsummer,
1974, pp. 4,5.
6 Edward E. Ericson, Jr., "Solzhenitsyn - Voice from the Gulag," Eternity,
October 1985, pp. 23, 24.
7 Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago (New York: Harper &
Row, 1973), p. 7.
8 Paul G. Humber, "The Ascent of Racism," Impact (Institute for Creation
Research, February 1987).
9 Sir Arthur Keith, Evolution and Ethics (New York: G. P. Putnam's Sons
1947), p. 14.
10 Henry Fairfield Osborn, Evolution and Religion in Education (London:
Charles Scribner's Sons, 1926), p. 48.
* Paul G. Humber, A.B., M.S., M.Div., is a schoolmaster at a college
preparatory school in the Philadelphia area.
--
Atheistfools.com
Information to stimulate your rational mind!
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| User: "Iskandar" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism--STALIN'S BRUTAL FAITH |
23 Sep 2004 08:11:25 PM |
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You are full of *****!
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism--STALIN'S BRUTAL FAITH |
23 Sep 2004 01:36:52 AM |
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"Atheist Crusher" <Atheist@fools.com> wrote
Some have the mistaken notion that faith and religion are
linked inseparably with the confession of a supreme
being, but many exercise faith in self and other human
beings--to the exclusion of the divine.
America's religious right, for example, who place their trust
and faith in the hands of political leaders.
No, I don't mean politicians. Not JUST politicians anyway.
I mean political leaders, which would include people like
Bush but would also include people like Bob Jones Jr,
Pat Robertson & Jerry Falwell.
The new bible for America's religious right is the civil law
books. Don't believe me? Well, listen up:
When was there a time when gay couples couldn't get married
in purely religious ceremonies?
If you guessed "Never" -- that gay couples always could (and
did) get married in purely religious ceremonies -- you are
correct.
But when was the marriage "Sacrament" first violated? When
was the "Sacred institution" of marriage first threatened?
If you guessed "When gay couples wanted CIVIL MARRIAGES"
you are correct!
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| User: "Ike" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism--STALIN'S BRUTAL FAITH |
23 Sep 2004 07:46:59 PM |
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"Atheist Crusher" <Atheist@fools.com> wrote in message
news:jAr4d.193$gf1.6288@news.uswest.net...
Some have the mistaken notion that faith and religion are linked
inseparably
with the confession of a supreme being, but many exercise faith in self
and
other human beings--to the exclusion of the divine. This, too, is
religion.
Whatever serves as one's basic system of beliefs about his or her place
and
role in the universe is certainly a faith, a religion.
Joseph Stalin, though an atheist, was a believer. His was a faith
resulting
in tremendous brutality--nevertheless, a faith! What was this faith? Was
it
uniquely Stalin's? Also, how brutal was it? The purpose of this article is
to offer some answers to these questions and to add insights of the
eminent
authority on Russia's soul, Nobel laureate Alexander Solzhenitsyn.
STALIN'S FAITH--WHAT WAS IT?
Often an individual's faith is firmly attached to a book of some kind.
Muslims have the Koran; Hindus, their Veda; and Christians, the Bible.
Writings of Confucius, Buddha, and indeed, Mao Tse-Tung, serve similar
purposes for other groups. In Stalin's case, the writings of Marx, Engels,
and Lenin incited him, but to stop here would be premature. There is one
man-book amalgam which may have been even more determinative for Stalin,
especially during his youthful, impressionable years. The man was Charles
Darwin; the book--his The Origin of Species.
<Abbreviated for brevity>
I have implied previously, in this forum, that Communism was a natural
outgrowth of the clash between Christianity and Judaism. You are trying to
blam atheism for the excesses of socialist dictators. Hitler was a
Christian. Stalin was a sminary studnt. Mao Tse Tung was trained by
catholics. Lenin and Trotsky were Jews. Marx was a Jew. Today many Russians
believe communism was beneficial to the Jews. I'm not here to spread
anti-Semitism, or anti- Christianity, or anti- Islam, but when someone, a
former believer in monotheism claims to be an atheist and then sets himself
up as God on earth you have to wonder if he is truly atheist or thinks
himself to be God's chosen to rule, thereby self-justifying the usurping of
the authority of religion in a new improved form. the anti-religion can then
be explained as trashing the ineffective authority of the church and
amplifying its priciples. After all religion can't exist without authority,
and I say neither can authority exist without religion. Just because the
religion is Stalinism --or some would say communism, socialism, what have
you -- doesn't make it not be a religion.
--
Freedom of thought entails no "Intellectual Property".
--
Freedom of thought entails no "Intellectual Property".
--
Freedom of thought entails no "Intellectual Property".
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| User: "Gregory Gadow" |
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| Title: Christianity - HITLER'S BRUTAL FAITH |
23 Sep 2004 09:04:24 AM |
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--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"The accumulation of all power, legislative,
executive, and judicial in the same hands...
may justly be pronounced the very definition
of tyranny."
- James Madison, _The Federalist_, #47
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| User: "Brian E. Clark" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism--STALIN'S BRUTAL FAITH |
23 Sep 2004 04:04:40 PM |
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Atheist Crusher <Atheist@fools.com> wrote:
Whatever serves as one's basic system of beliefs about his or her place and
role in the universe is certainly a faith, a religion.
It's said, when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
It could alse be said: When all you have is a bonfire, everyone looks
like a heretic.
--
-----------
Brian E. Clark
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| User: "Moose" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism--STALIN'S BRUTAL FAITH |
23 Sep 2004 05:17:42 PM |
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Atheist Crusher wrote:
"Men have forgotten God;
that's why all this has happened."
Men have forgotten to think,
that's why god has happened.
So your "god of love" needs his glorious ego stroked in order to consider us
worth protecting? Get a clue.
Moose
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism--STALIN'S BRUTAL FAITH |
23 Sep 2004 06:09:33 AM |
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Atheist Crusher wrote:
Some have the mistaken notion that faith and religion are linked inseparably
with the confession of a supreme being, but many exercise faith in self and
other human beings--to the exclusion of the divine.
Aw *****.....not you again.
--
Jez
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
Skype callto://hellward
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| User: "Canetoad" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism--STALIN'S BRUTAL FAITH |
23 Sep 2004 03:06:33 AM |
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Fukken hell, Atheist Crusher. Say something bright or shut up will ya?
And to the rest of you who respond to this garbage, do you not see that
AC is just baiting you? You should be ashamed of yourselves for giving
head space to an idiot.
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| User: "Tukla Ratte" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism--STALIN'S BRUTAL FAITH |
24 Sep 2004 12:27:05 PM |
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Canetoad wrote:
Fukken hell, Atheist Crusher. Say something bright or shut up will ya?
And to the rest of you who respond to this garbage, do you not see that
AC is just baiting you? You should be ashamed of yourselves for giving
head space to an idiot.
Wow! Nice double standard.
--
Tukla, Eater of Theists, Squeaker of Chew Toys
Official Mascot of Alt.Atheism
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| User: "Atheist Crusher" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism--STALIN'S BRUTAL FAITH |
24 Sep 2004 03:18:19 PM |
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"Tukla Ratte" <tukla_ratte@tukla.net> wrote in message
news:2rj3n9F1alb28U2@uni-berlin.de...
Canetoad wrote:
Fukken hell, Atheist Crusher. Say something bright or shut up will ya?
And to the rest of you who respond to this garbage, do you not see that
AC is just baiting you? You should be ashamed of yourselves for giving
head space to an idiot.
Wow! Nice double standard.
--
Tukla, Eater of Theists, Squeaker of Chew Toys
Official Mascot of Alt.Atheism
Lol..No one baits me unless I allow them to,they are nothing but useless
talking monkeys on my chain.
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism--STALIN'S BRUTAL FAITH |
24 Sep 2004 09:26:43 PM |
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One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Atheist Crusher:
"Tukla Ratte" <tukla_ratte@tukla.net> wrote in message
news:2rj3n9F1alb28U2@uni-berlin.de...
Canetoad wrote:
Fukken hell, Atheist Crusher. Say something bright or shut up will
ya? And to the rest of you who respond to this garbage, do you not
see that AC is just baiting you? You should be ashamed of yourselves
for giving head space to an idiot.
Wow! Nice double standard.
--
Tukla, Eater of Theists, Squeaker of Chew Toys
Official Mascot of Alt.Atheism
Lol..No one baits me unless I allow them to,they are nothing but
useless talking monkeys on my chain.
Heh...
I'll bet those monkeys are pulling your chain right now. Aren't they
Atheist?
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________
The whole foundation of Christianity is based on the idea that
intellectualism is the work of the Devil. Remember the apple on the tree?
Okay, it was the Tree of Knowledge. "You eat this apple, you're going to
be as smart as God. We can't have that."
[Frank Zappa]
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| User: "Daniel Kolle" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism--STALIN'S BRUTAL FAITH |
23 Sep 2004 05:51:40 PM |
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On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:40:00 -0700, "Atheist Crusher"
<Atheist@fools.com> thought hard and said:
Joseph Stalin, though an atheist, was a believer.
A believer in the state, yes.
<snip rest of BS>
--
-Daniel "Mr. Brevity" Kolle; 16 A.A. #2035
Koji Kondo, Yo-Yo Ma, Gustav Mahler, Krzysztof Penderecki, and Geirr Tveitt are my Gods.
Head of EAC Denial Department and Madly Insane Scientist.
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| User: "raven1" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism--STALIN'S BRUTAL FAITH |
22 Sep 2004 11:27:39 PM |
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On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:40:00 -0700, "Atheist Crusher"
<Atheist@fools.com> wrote:
STALIN'S FAITH--WHAT WAS IT?
Why don't you ask the Jesuits who trained him?
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| User: "Llanzlan Klazmon" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism--STALIN'S BRUTAL FAITH |
23 Sep 2004 10:33:40 PM |
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raven1 <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote in
news:ffk4l0p6bbqc71sr5525du1v9v70te45fh@4ax.com:
On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:40:00 -0700, "Atheist Crusher"
<Atheist@fools.com> wrote:
STALIN'S FAITH--WHAT WAS IT?
Why don't you ask the Jesuits who trained him?
It wasn't Jesuits - it was the orthodox church he trained for the
priesthood with. Maybe he learned too well!
LK.
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| User: "Atheist Crusher" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism--STALIN'S BRUTAL FAITH |
24 Sep 2004 11:40:59 AM |
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"Llanzlan Klazmon" <llanzlan@llurdiaxorb.gov> wrote in message
news:Xns956E9E4C178F8llanzlanllurdiaxorbg@203.97.37.6...
raven1 <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote in
news:ffk4l0p6bbqc71sr5525du1v9v70te45fh@4ax.com:
On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:40:00 -0700, "Atheist Crusher"
<Atheist@fools.com> wrote:
STALIN'S FAITH--WHAT WAS IT?
Why don't you ask the Jesuits who trained him?
What you have given is a slothful induction and not facts.
This one goes to the trash due to it's uselessness as a valid response.Do
you have anything else?
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| User: "Tom" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism--STALIN'S BRUTAL FAITH |
24 Sep 2004 12:46:36 PM |
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"Atheist Crusher" <Atheist@fools.com> wrote in message
news:w6Y4d.7$%k6.24587@news.uswest.net...
"Llanzlan Klazmon" <llanzlan@llurdiaxorb.gov> wrote in message
news:Xns956E9E4C178F8llanzlanllurdiaxorbg@203.97.37.6...
raven1 <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote in
news:ffk4l0p6bbqc71sr5525du1v9v70te45fh@4ax.com:
On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:40:00 -0700, "Atheist Crusher"
<Atheist@fools.com> wrote:
STALIN'S FAITH--WHAT WAS IT?
Why don't you ask the Jesuits who trained him?
What you have given is a slothful induction and not facts.
This one goes to the trash due to it's uselessness as a valid response.Do
you have anything else?
Inability to answer the question is noted, but of course, when did
"Mad(Crusher)" ever answer a question.
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| User: "Atheist Crusher" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism--STALIN'S BRUTAL FAITH |
24 Sep 2004 04:40:31 PM |
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"Tom" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:10l8nbtsc3c7tdc@corp.supernews.com...
"Atheist Crusher" <Atheist@fools.com> wrote in message
news:w6Y4d.7$%k6.24587@news.uswest.net...
"Llanzlan Klazmon" <llanzlan@llurdiaxorb.gov> wrote in message
news:Xns956E9E4C178F8llanzlanllurdiaxorbg@203.97.37.6...
raven1 <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote in
news:ffk4l0p6bbqc71sr5525du1v9v70te45fh@4ax.com:
On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:40:00 -0700, "Atheist Crusher"
<Atheist@fools.com> wrote:
STALIN'S FAITH--WHAT WAS IT?
Why don't you ask the Jesuits who trained him?
What you have given is a slothful induction and not facts.
This one goes to the trash due to it's uselessness as a valid response.Do
you have anything else?
Inability to answer the question is noted, but of course, when did
"Mad(Crusher)" ever answer a question.
If you would have understood the line of questioning, then your ignorance
would not have unleashed itself once again.
Where is the proof that the Jesuits trained Stalin, and even if they did he
obviously abandoned the righteousness and humanity of the Jesuits for the
darkness and murderousness of atheism.
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| User: "Tom" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism--STALIN'S BRUTAL FAITH |
24 Sep 2004 07:01:15 PM |
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"Atheist Crusher" <Atheist@fools.com> wrote in message
news:jv05d.527$%k6.44077@news.uswest.net...
"Tom" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:10l8nbtsc3c7tdc@corp.supernews.com...
"Atheist Crusher" <Atheist@fools.com> wrote in message
news:w6Y4d.7$%k6.24587@news.uswest.net...
"Llanzlan Klazmon" <llanzlan@llurdiaxorb.gov> wrote in message
news:Xns956E9E4C178F8llanzlanllurdiaxorbg@203.97.37.6...
raven1 <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote in
news:ffk4l0p6bbqc71sr5525du1v9v70te45fh@4ax.com:
On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:40:00 -0700, "Atheist Crusher"
<Atheist@fools.com> wrote:
STALIN'S FAITH--WHAT WAS IT?
Why don't you ask the Jesuits who trained him?
What you have given is a slothful induction and not facts.
This one goes to the trash due to it's uselessness as a valid
response.Do
you have anything else?
Inability to answer the question is noted, but of course, when did
"Mad(Crusher)" ever answer a question.
If you would have understood the line of questioning, then your ignorance
would not have unleashed itself once again.
Where is the proof that the Jesuits trained Stalin, and even if they did
he
obviously abandoned the righteousness and humanity of the Jesuits for the
darkness and murderousness of atheism.
He was just a non-functioning believer. There are millions of them in the
world.
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism--STALIN'S BRUTAL FAITH |
22 Sep 2004 11:56:35 PM |
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One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Atheist Crusher:
Joseph Stalin, though an atheist, was a believer.
This statement demonstrates the pre-school reasoning ability of the average
fundy. Way to go, Ray.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________
The whole foundation of Christianity is based on the idea that
intellectualism is the work of the Devil. Remember the apple on the tree?
Okay, it was the Tree of Knowledge. "You eat this apple, you're going to be
as smart as God. We can't have that."
[Frank Zappa]
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| User: "Imperishable Stars" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism--STALIN'S BRUTAL FAITH |
23 Sep 2004 05:43:02 AM |
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Vic Sagerquist wrote:
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Atheist Crusher:
Joseph Stalin, though an atheist, was a believer.
This statement demonstrates the pre-school reasoning ability of the average
fundy. Way to go, Ray.
We read the posts in here from atheists and evolutionists and you guys
continue to prove with every post that you are all very stupid people.
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| User: "Atheist Crusher" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism--STALIN'S BRUTAL FAITH |
23 Sep 2004 11:44:19 AM |
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"Imperishable Stars" <belt@of.orion> wrote in message
news:H92dnV8cIItONc_cRVn-iQ@rogers.com...
Vic Sagerquist wrote:
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Atheist Crusher:
Joseph Stalin, though an atheist, was a believer.
This statement demonstrates the pre-school reasoning ability of the
average fundy. Way to go, Ray.
We read the posts in here from atheists and evolutionists and you guys
continue to prove with every post that you are all very stupid people.
Ditto on that one, I am here to sharpen my faith which these idiots don't
seem to understand.
They are the biggest supporters for my beliefs.
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| User: "Tukla Ratte" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism--STALIN'S BRUTAL FAITH |
24 Sep 2004 12:18:35 PM |
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Atheist Crusher wrote:
< snip >
I am here to sharpen my faith
Trollianity?
which these idiots don't
seem to understand.
Oh, we understand the Troll's pathetic need for attention.
They are the biggest supporters for my beliefs.
Yes. I fully support your belief that you are a sad little Troll.
--
Tukla, Eater of Theists, Squeaker of Chew Toys
Official Mascot of Alt.Atheism
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| User: "Moose" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism--STALIN'S BRUTAL FAITH |
23 Sep 2004 05:24:12 PM |
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Atheist Crusher wrote:
Ditto on that one, I am here to sharpen my faith which these idiots don't
seem to understand.
They are the biggest supporters for my beliefs.
Your belief system is sharpened by being an anonymous immature newsgroup
troll? "Annoy others with closed-minded circular reasoning, and thou shalt
be spared the fires of hell"
ha!
At least you're not killing people like the other religious zealots I read
about in the morning paper.
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| User: "raven1" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism--STALIN'S BRUTAL FAITH |
23 Sep 2004 02:18:24 PM |
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On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 09:44:19 -0700, "Atheist Crusher"
<Atheist@fools.com> wrote:
"Imperishable Stars" <belt@of.orion> wrote in message
news:H92dnV8cIItONc_cRVn-iQ@rogers.com...
Vic Sagerquist wrote:
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Atheist Crusher:
Joseph Stalin, though an atheist, was a believer.
This statement demonstrates the pre-school reasoning ability of the
average fundy. Way to go, Ray.
We read the posts in here from atheists and evolutionists and you guys
continue to prove with every post that you are all very stupid people.
Ditto on that one, I am here to sharpen my faith which these idiots don't
seem to understand.
The only thing you seem to be sharpening is that point at the top of
your head.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism--STALIN'S BRUTAL FAITH |
23 Sep 2004 06:28:59 AM |
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"Imperishable Stars" <belt@of.orion> wrote in message
news:H92dnV8cIItONc_cRVn-iQ@rogers.com...
Vic Sagerquist wrote:
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Atheist Crusher:
Joseph Stalin, though an atheist, was a believer.
This statement demonstrates the pre-school reasoning ability of the
average fundy. Way to go, Ray.
We read the posts in here from atheists and evolutionists and you guys
continue to prove with every post that you are all very stupid people.
My, what an intelligent and well thought-out retort! Take you all day to
think of it?
BTW, grow up.
--
__________
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism--STALIN'S BRUTAL FAITH |
23 Sep 2004 07:35:14 AM |
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Imperishable Stars wrote:
Vic Sagerquist wrote:
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Atheist Crusher:
Joseph Stalin, though an atheist, was a believer.
This statement demonstrates the pre-school reasoning ability of the
average fundy. Way to go, Ray.
We read the posts in here from atheists and evolutionists and you guys
continue to prove with every post that you are all very stupid people.
At least we're not stupid enough to believe in non-existent beings.
--
Jez
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
Skype callto://hellward
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| User: "New10." |
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| Title: Re: Atheism--STALIN'S BRUTAL FAITH |
23 Sep 2004 10:40:02 PM |
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Hitler and Stalin Would Smile as They Recognize One of Their Own
By New10.
X
For close to fifty years America has had a pathological fear of a communist
takeover. Christianity and particularly the Catholic Church was stimulating
the fear because they recognized that communism was their competitors in
their hostility toward Democracy. I will make a brief case that Christianity
(the Catholic Church) was projecting their own dark side onto communism.
America had spent so much time, money and lives to buttress our
front door from
a communist attack. America was oblivious to the fascist incursion through
the back door.
America was hardly aware of this incursion because there was already at work
a fifth column subverting our basic freedom called Christianity. In our own
time, the Catholic Church has backed every Fascist who came to power because
they shared a common anti-democratic philosophy.
It was Hitler in Germany, Franco in Spain, Salazar of Portugal,
Batista of Cuba, Augusto Pinochet, Chilean Dictator, Mussolini of Italy and
Ante Pavelic of Crocia, (with the help of Hitler) When Pavelic and his
Ustashi (Nazi) hoards created an independent Catholic state of Croatia they
murdered hundreds of thousands of men, women, and children because they were
either Moslems or Eastern Orthodox and in the event any Jews survived
Hitler's
Holocaust was massacred in the Vatican's Holocaust.*
How many lay people know about (or priests who do not speak
Latin) Rome's Syllabus of Condemned opinions?. The syllabus was never
translated into modern language from its original Latin (except by Joseph
McCabe former monk and professor of philosophy and atheist.) a sample of
condemned opinions: (I chose the shorter ones for expediency)
2. Human reason is the sole judge of truth and falseness, good and evil. It
is a law unto itself and suffices, by its natural resources, to promote the
welfare of nations
5. Devine revelations is imperfect and therefore subject to continual and
indefinite progress and this corresponds to the advance of human reason.
7. The prophesies and miracles that are contained in Holy Writ are poetic
fiction, and the mysteries of the Christian faith are the outcome of
philosophic inquiries: the contents of both the new and old testaments are
fiction, and Jesus Christ is a mythical figure.
8. Since human reason is as valuable as religion, theological matters are to
be treated in the same way as philosophical.
*The Vatican Holocaust: by Avro Mahattan published by Ozark Books,
-2-
9. All dogmas, without exception, of the Christian religion is
the subject of natural science or philosophy. Human reason can in the course
in time be so developed that by its natural force and the principles it can
attain all knowledge, even the profound, provided that these dogmas have
been submitted to reason as a subject. The Church not only must never
pass judgment on philosophy but must tolerate its errors and leave it to
correct them itself.
10. Since the philosopher is one thing and the philosophy
another, the former has the right and the duty to submit to authority which
he believes to be sound, but philosophy neither can nor ought to bow to
authority.
11. The Church not only must never pass judgment on philosophy but must
tolerate its errors and leave it to correct them itself.
12. The decrees of the apostolic see and the Roman congregations are an
impediment to the free advances of science.
13. The methods and the principles, which the older scholastic
doctors used in studying theology, are not in the least in harmony with the
needs of our time and the progress of the sciences
14. Philosophy must be studied without any regard to supernatural
revelation.
15. Every man is free to adopt and profess any religion which under the
guidance of reason he believes to be true
18. Protestantism is only another form of the one true Christian religion,
and God is just as pleased for men to join it as to join the Catholic
Church.
20. Ecclesiastical authority must not use its powers without the permission
and consent of the civil government.
21. The church has no power to lay down dogmatically that the religion of
the Catholic Church is the one true church
24. The church has no power to use force or any temporal power, direct or
indirect
27. The sacred ministry of the church and the Roman pontiff must be entirely
without the permission of the government.
28. Bishops cannot be allowed to publish even the pope's letters
without the permission
of the government
3.
30. The immunity of the church and of Ecclesiastical persons has its
origin in civil law.
31. The Ecclesiastical court for hearing secular charges must be
entirely abolished,
without consulting or even against the protest of the Apostolic see.
34. The idea that the Roman pontiff may be compared to a free prince
acting in the universal church is medieval.
37. It is lawful to establish national churches that are not subject
to the authority of the Roman pontiff and are, in fact, entirely separated.
39. A republic, as the origin and power of all rights, has an
unlimited power.
40. The teaching of the Catholic Church is opposed to the welfare of
human society.
42. In a conflict of law between two powers the civil takes
precedence.
55. The church must be separated from the state and the state from the
church.
56. Moral law does not need a Devine sanction, it is not at all
necessary that human laws should conform to the law of nature or derive
their binding force from God.
58. No forces are to be recognized which are not inherent in matter,
and all moral
and decent effort ought to be expended in accumulating wealth and
procuring pleasure in
any way.
59. Right consist of a material fact, "Duties of Man" is an empty
phrase, and all
man's acts have the force of right.
62. The principle of non-intervention is to be recommended and
observed.
63. It is lawful to refuse to obey and even rebel against legitimate
princes.
74. Matrimonial and Espousal cases belong by their very nature to the
civil courts.
80. The Roman pontiff can and ought to be reconciled and come to terms
with
progress, liberalism, and modern civilization.
To these theologians add these which are, they say, condemned in the
bull itself; (1) that the highest public interest and the progress of
society emphatically demand that human society be constituted and governed
without any regard for religion, as if there were no such thing.
Page 4 below
Page 4.
I want to remind you these are concepts the Catholic Church condemns.
(3) That freedom of conscience and religion are the right of every man, and
it ought to be decreed by law in every properly-constituted society that all
citizens have the right to all freedom without the coercion of either Civil
or Ecclesiastical authority so that they may publicly declare their opinions
either vocally or in print or in any other way. (4) That the will of the
people, made known either by public opinion or in any other way, is the
supreme law, apart from any divine or human right, and that in
the political order accomplished facts have, by the very fact that
they are accomplished, the force of law. (8) That the clergy, being hostile
to true and useful science and the advance of civilization, must be excluded
from all share in the training and education of the young.
If this syllabus was read by 10,000 Catholics on the street and told
they were Fascist or Communistic and they would be expected to embrace them
would provoke indignation and soundly reject them as being undemocratic
unaware these are
the credos their religion (Catholicism) demands their parishioners to
accept.
END
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| User: "raven1" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism--STALIN'S BRUTAL FAITH |
23 Sep 2004 02:17:37 PM |
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On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 06:43:02 -0400, Imperishable Stars <belt@of.orion>
wrote:
Vic Sagerquist wrote:
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Atheist Crusher:
Joseph Stalin, though an atheist, was a believer.
This statement demonstrates the pre-school reasoning ability of the average
fundy. Way to go, Ray.
We read the posts in here from atheists and evolutionists and you guys
continue to prove with every post that you are all very stupid people.
Quite frankly, someone who believes in magical sky pixies, and who
rejects the overwhelming evidence for evolution, is manifestly
unqualified to judge anyone's intelligence.
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| User: "JPG" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism--STALIN'S BRUTAL FAITH |
23 Sep 2004 10:08:28 AM |
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On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 06:43:02 -0400, Imperishable Stars <belt@of.orion> wrote:
Vic Sagerquist wrote:
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Atheist Crusher:
Joseph Stalin, though an atheist, was a believer.
This statement demonstrates the pre-school reasoning ability of the average
fundy. Way to go, Ray.
We read the posts in here from atheists and evolutionists and you guys
continue to prove with every post that you are all very stupid people.
Unlike those amazingly intelligent and rational theists who believe in an
imaginary being and think the earth is 6,000 years old.
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism--STALIN'S BRUTAL FAITH |
23 Sep 2004 11:01:16 PM |
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One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Imperishable Stars:
Vic Sagerquist wrote:
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Atheist Crusher:
Joseph Stalin, though an atheist, was a believer.
This statement demonstrates the pre-school reasoning ability of the
average fundy. Way to go, Ray.
We read the posts in here from atheists and evolutionists and you guys
continue to prove with every post that you are all very stupid people.
Ahh. Creationists. The handful 'o mud 'n' magic crowd. What a fine
judge of stupidity you are. I'll bet you have been down that road
before. In fact, I'll bet you live there.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________
The whole foundation of Christianity is based on the idea that
intellectualism is the work of the Devil. Remember the apple on the tree?
Okay, it was the Tree of Knowledge. "You eat this apple, you're going to
be as smart as God. We can't have that."
[Frank Zappa]
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| User: "Godfrey" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism--STALIN'S BRUTAL FAITH |
23 Sep 2004 01:40:05 AM |
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Please- you're only encouraging it by responding to its posts.
Godfrey
On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:40:00 -0700, "Atheist Crusher"
<Atheist@fools.com> wrote:
Some have the mistaken notion that faith and religion are linked inseparably
with the confession of a supreme being, but many exercise faith in self and
other human beings--to the exclusion of the divine. This, too, is religion.
Whatever serves as one's basic system of beliefs about his or her place and
role in the universe is certainly a faith, a religion.
Joseph Stalin, though an atheist, was a believer. His was a faith resulting
in tremendous brutality--nevertheless, a faith! What was this faith? Was it
uniquely Stalin's? Also, how brutal was it? The purpose of this article is
to offer some answers to these questions and to add insights of the eminent
authority on Russia's soul, Nobel laureate Alexander Solzhenitsyn.
STALIN'S FAITH--WHAT WAS IT?
Often an individual's faith is firmly attached to a book of some kind.
Muslims have the Koran; Hindus, their Veda; and Christians, the Bible.
Writings of Confucius, Buddha, and indeed, Mao Tse-Tung, serve similar
purposes for other groups. In Stalin's case, the writings of Marx, Engels,
and Lenin incited him, but to stop here would be premature. There is one
man-book amalgam which may have been even more determinative for Stalin,
especially during his youthful, impressionable years. The man was Charles
Darwin; the book--his The Origin of Species.
To document this, appeal is made first to a book published in Moscow
entitled, Landmarks in the Life of Stalin. It was written during Stalin's
"glory," and was designed to set him in a positive light. Note in the
selection cited, that faith in Darwin and his "book" contrasts markedly with
faith in a supreme being:
At a very early age, while still a pupil in the ecclesiastical school,
Comrade Stalin developed a critical mind and revolutionary sentiments. He
began to read Darwin and became an atheist.
G. Glurdjidze, a boyhood friend of Stalin's, relates:
"I began to speak of God, Joseph heard me out, and after a moment's
silence, said:
"'You know, they are fooling us, there is no God. . . .'
"I was astonished at these words, I had never heard anything like it
before.
"'How can you say such things, Soso?' I exclaimed.
"'I'll lend you a book to read; it will show you that the world and all
living things are quite different from what you imagine, and all this talk
about God is sheer nonsense,' Joseph said.
"'What book is that?' I enquired.
"'Darwin. You must read it,' Joseph impressed on me" 1
A few pages later, another individual--also reflecting on Stalin's youthful
pursuits, added the following:
". . .in order to disabuse the minds of our seminary students of the myth
that the world was created in six days, we had to acquaint ourselves with
the geological origin and age of the earth, and be able to prove them in
argument; we had to familiarize ourselves with Darwin's teachings."1
HAD MARX, ENGELS, AND LENIN SHARED THE SAME FAITH?
It has already been stated that Stalin was influenced by the writings of
these men. Did this dilute the effect of Darwin on him, or were these men
also affected by the same British naturalist? The answer to the second
question must be affirmative. Conway Zirkle, Professor of Botany at the
University of Pennsylvania, published a book in 1959 entitled, Evolution,
Marxian Biology, and the Social Scene, in which he cites comments made in
correspondence between Engels and Marx. As early as December 12, 1859 (only
months after The Origin of Species was published), Friedrich Engels wrote to
Karl Marx, "Darwin, whom I am just now reading, is splendid." [2] About a
year later (December 19, 1860), Marx, the Father of Communism, responded,
"During my time of trial, these last few weeks, I have read all sorts of
things. Among others, Darwin's book of Natural Selection. Although it is
developed in the crude English style, this is the book which contains the
basis in natural history for our view." 2 To one Ferdinand Lassalle, he
wrote (January 16, 1861), "Darwin's book is very important and serves me as
a basis in natural science for the class struggle in history." [2] Zirkle
also indicated that Marx wanted to dedicate Das Kapital to Darwin. 2
Harvard's Stephen Jay Gould, an intense and modern spokesman for evolution,
corroborates this by reporting that he saw Darwin's copy of Marx's first
volume inscribed by Marx--describing himself as a "sincere admirer" of the
English naturalist. 3
Ruis credits Vladimir Lenin with the following commentary on Darwin:
Darwin put an end to the belief that the animal and vegetable species bear
no relation to one another, except by chance, and that they were created by
God, and hence immutable. 4
HOW BRUTAL WAS STALIN'S FAITH?
The 20th century has been one of tyranny and mass genocide. One needs only
to remember the two million Cambodians slaughtered under Pol Pot, the six
million Jews exterminated by Adolf Hitler, and the 20 million helpless lives
aborted in America. Leading the list of atrocities, however, might well be
the millions of Russian people eliminated under Stalin's murderous rule.
Harrison E. Salisbury of The New York Times, described the Soviet system of
prison camps as "a whole continent of terror. . . . Compared with those who
brought about the hundreds of thousands of executions and the millions of
deaths in the Soviet terror system, the Czars seem almost benign. . . . Our
minds boggle at the thought of a systematized, routine evil, under which
three or four or more million men and women were sentenced each year to
forced labor and eternal exile--and in a manner so casual that the prisoners
often were not even told what their sentences were. . . ." 5
SOLZHENITZYN'S INSIGHTS
In 1983, Alexander I. Solzhenitsyn, winner of the 1970 Nobel Prize for
Literature, gave an address in London in which he attempted to explain why
so much evil had befallen his people:
Over a half century ago, while I was still a child, I recall hearing a
number of old people offer the following explanation for the great disasters
that had befallen Russia: "Men have forgotten God; that's why all this has
happened."
Since then I have spend well-nigh 50 years working on the history of our
revolution; in the process I have read hundreds of books, collected hundreds
of personal testimonies, and have already contributed eight volumes of my
own toward the effort of clearing away the rubble left by that upheaval. But
if I were asked today to formulate as concisely as possible the main cause
of the ruinous revolution that swallowed up some 60 million of our people, I
could not put it more accurately than to repeat: "Men have forgotten God;
that's why all this has happened." 6
But has Solzhenitsyn considered any relationship involving Soviet
oppression, Stalin's terror, and Darwin's theories on origin? In his
towering book, The Gulag Archipelago, Solzhenitsyn recounts an incident
which apparently took place in 1937-38 at a district Party conference
meeting in Moscow Province. The secretary (replacing an arrested one) was
paying tribute to Comrade Stalin. The group, including the new secretary,
was standing and applauding their esteemed Leader. Even a single minute of
feverish clapping consumes energy, but in this case it was important to
sustain the "enthusiasm" much longer. Three, four, five minutes passed and
more! Tired arms!--but who could risk stopping? Seven, eight, and nine
minutes elapsed. It was absurd! Finally after eleven minutes (!), a local
factory director stopped clapping and sat down. All followed suit, but that
night the one who stopped first was arrested and given ten years! He was
told, "Don't ever be the first to stop applauding!" Solzhenitsyn queries,
"And just what are we supposed to do? How are we supposed to stop?" 7 In
harmony with the position of this article, he adds:
Now that's what Darwin's natural selection is. And that's also how to
grind people down with stupidity. 7
CONCLUSION
In a previous article, 8 the present author documented the thesis that
Hitler was a fanatical evolutionist. Evolutionary language and terms were
shown to be used in Hitler's Mein Kampf. Sir Arthur Keith summarized,
"Hitler (was) an uncompromising evolutionist, and we must seek for an
evolutionary explanation if we are to understand his action." 9
This present article relates Stalin, along with the Fathers of Communism, to
the same concepts. The attachments of these men to Darwin have been made
explicit, and, again, it would seem wise to include evolutionary
explanations if we want fully to understand their actions. Of Hitler it may
be said that he killed millions; of these men--and especially of
Stalin--tens of millions!
Of course none of this either proves or disproves the theory itself, but it
does strongly suggest that much evil has entered the world under the
tutelage of Darwin's theory.
Henry Fairfield Osborn once wrote, "The ethical principle inherent in
evolution is that only the best has a right to survive. . . ." 10 Jesus,
however, was concerned to heal the sick and deformed. He showed compassion
for the weak and enfeebled. Not much of a follower of evolution's "ethical
principle" was He, but, then again, one would hardly expect this from the
Creator.
"Men have forgotten God;
that's why all this has happened."
REFERENCES
1 E. Yaroslavsky, Landmarks in the Life of Stalin (Moscow: Foreign
Languages Publishing house, 1940), pp. 8-12.
2 Conway Zirkle, Evolution, Marxian Biology, and the Social Scene
(Philadelphia: University of Pennsylvania Press, 1959), pp. 85-87.
3 Stephen Jay Gould, Ever Since Darwin (New York: W. W. Norton and Co.,
Inc., 1977), p. 26.
4 Eduardo del Rio (pseudonym="Rius"), Marx for Beginners (New York:
Pantheon Books, 1976), Glossary, n.p.
5 Harrison E. Salisbury, "Reading The Gulag Archipelago is like no other
reading experience of our day," Book-of-the-Month Club NEWS, Midsummer,
1974, pp. 4,5.
6 Edward E. Ericson, Jr., "Solzhenitsyn - Voice from the Gulag," Eternity,
October 1985, pp. 23, 24.
7 Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago (New York: Harper &
Row, 1973), p. 7.
8 Paul G. Humber, "The Ascent of Racism," Impact (Institute for Creation
Research, February 1987).
9 Sir Arthur Keith, Evolution and Ethics (New York: G. P. Putnam's Sons
1947), p. 14.
10 Henry Fairfield Osborn, Evolution and Religion in Education (London:
Charles Scribner's Sons, 1926), p. 48.
* Paul G. Humber, A.B., M.S., M.Div., is a schoolmaster at a college
preparatory school in the Philadelphia area.
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