| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"words of truth" |
| Date: |
26 Sep 2005 07:29:29 AM |
| Object: |
Atheism Is Built On A Leap Of Blind Faith |
http://imagoveritatis.myatts.net/comments.php?id=24_0_1_0_C
Don't Believe It
I ran into a blog that claims to be based on "reason" alone and it
turned out to be, predictably, run by an Objectivist (with a capital
"O" that means a disciple of Ayn Rand). Objectivism is a form of
atheism, though they tend to focus much more on the positive aspects of
their system rather than getting hung up on the God thing, unlike the
folks over at infidels.org. Anyway, that prompted to me to pull off the
shelf one of the many books that I have bought and put away for future
reading, (whenever that is - heh, heh) and before I knew it I was well
into it. The book is John Robbins' Without A Prayer: Ayn Rand and the
Close of Her System, available here.
Well, the book is a masterpiece, and though I don't follow every detail
of Gordon Clark's philosophy which figures heavily in Robbins'
argument, by the end of the chapter on epistemology he has reduced
Rand's system to a pile of rubble that is hopelessly beyond salvaging.
In fact, one cannot but conclude, after reading this analysis, that
Rand's system, rather than being founded upon reason, is profoundly
irrational. It surely requires a blind leap of faith to grasp. I won't
repeat the arguments here; the reader is encouraged to get the book and
see.
So, in that vein, I have been scrounging around the web to see what
else there is in the blogosphere (hey I'm getting into this new lingo!)
when I came across this piece from Tertius, who complains about
atheists who pretend that they do not have a world view, but rather
that they simply lack a belief in God. He calls this atheism lite -
well put I think - because it IS a cop out, as he shows. I have run
across this kind of thing, of course and after analyzing atheism I came
up with at least four positive philosophical assertions that
necessariliy follow from the denial of the existence of God, which are
discussed on page 10 of my conversations with atheists and which I will
quote here:
So when the atheist denies or says he does not believe in a God, he is
necessarily making a number of positive world view presuppositions
about the nature of the universe. What are some of these? At least the
following:
1) The universe is self-sufficient in its existence and operations. It
is autonomous and not dependent upon another external entity, but
functions based on the laws of nature which determine its character.
2) The principles of knowledge or interpretation of the universe are
contained within and derived from the universe itself. There is no need
for a revelation or interpretation of the universe from a vantage point
outside of the universe. Since there is no outside the universe,
according to the atheist, no such revelation could exist in any case.
Therefore, the ultimate reference point for predication and
interpretation is a principle such as logic, sense perception,
intuition, all of which must exist in the universe, and which were
derived ultimately from human reason. The human mind is autonomous and
is adequate to discover truth on its own, using its own methods. All
truth claims must pass the test of human reason. There is no higher
authority.
3) Right and wrong are relative terms that describe social norms
developed by humankind to enhance its survival and pleasure. There is
no absolute right and wrong and in the end, it is the autonomous human
mind that legislates morality.
4) There is no discernible purpose to history or in the operations and
existence of the universe. The universe is the ultimate reality and it
is impersonal and unconcerned about us or our fate. It is simply there
and appears to be what it is largely as a result of chance. The human
future is undetermined, since there is no divine plan governing it. The
meaning of life is what we make of it based on the decisions of our
autonomous wills, and there is no final meaning in the end.
Each of these four notions corresponds to an interpretation of the four
areas that define a world view: ontology (the nature of reality or
being), epistemology (the theory of how we have and justify knowledge),
ethics (the theory of the ultimate good and of moral action), and
teleology (the theory of the purpose of it all). Thus, we see that the
denial of belief in God necessarily implies a basic set of world view
assumptions (axioms or presuppositions) that form a positive
interpretation of the state of affairs.
So the atheist really has no excuse and nowhere to hide. The assertion
that atheism is just a denial is merely a smokescreen to avoid having
to mount a defense of his position. But that emperor is stark naked.
The atheist who wants any intellectual respect is both philosophically
and morally obligated to defend his beliefs as a system, and that means
defending the above assertions. And that puts his whole system up for
discussion. Once we open that door then it is only a matter of time
before the inherent irrationality of atheism reveals itself and the
atheist has to look squarely in the face that fact that his whole
system is built on a leap of faith, and a blind one at that.
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| User: "nevermore" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism Is Built On A Leap Of Blind Faith |
05 Nov 2005 11:16:11 AM |
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On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 16:23:51 GMT, Dubh Ghall <puck@pooks.hill.fey>
wrote:
On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 19:32:25 -0500, nevermore <stevencanyon@y***hoo.com> wrote:
It's not like I give a ***** what a moron like you thinks about me.....
Yet you keep coming back.
....and not challenging what you say you think about me.....
--
Steve
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| User: "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrichs effort" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism Is Built On A Leap Of Blind Faith |
05 Nov 2005 09:36:24 AM |
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nevermore wrote:
On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 20:33:57 GMT, Dubh Ghall <puck@pooks.hill.fey>
wrote:
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 09:51:03 -0500, nevermore <stevencanyon@y***hoo.com> wrote:
Oh well, I'll give you permission to believe anything you want about
me. OK?
Most generous of you.
But your permission is not enough, I require evidence, and the evidence I have,
poor as it is, indicates that you are a theist.
It's not like I give a ***** what a moron like you thinks about me.....
And yet you keep begging for attention.
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| User: "nevermore" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism Is Built On A Leap Of Blind Faith |
05 Nov 2005 11:16:10 AM |
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On 5 Nov 2005 07:36:24 -0800, "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason
Gastrich's effort" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote:
nevermore wrote:
On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 20:33:57 GMT, Dubh Ghall <puck@pooks.hill.fey>
wrote:
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 09:51:03 -0500, nevermore <stevencanyon@y***hoo.com> wrote:
Oh well, I'll give you permission to believe anything you want about
me. OK?
Most generous of you.
But your permission is not enough, I require evidence, and the evidence I have,
poor as it is, indicates that you are a theist.
It's not like I give a ***** what a moron like you thinks about me.....
And yet you keep begging for attention.
Huh? You think that a person laughing at clowns is begging for
attention?
--
Steve
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| User: "Del" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism Is Built On A Leap Of Blind Faith |
06 Nov 2005 12:19:07 PM |
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nevermore wrote:
On 5 Nov 2005 07:36:24 -0800, "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason
Gastrich's effort" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote:
nevermore wrote:
On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 20:33:57 GMT, Dubh Ghall <puck@pooks.hill.fey>
wrote:
On Th u, 03 Nov 2005 09:51:03 -0500, nevermore <stevencanyon@y***hoo.com> wrote:
Oh well, I'll give you permission to believe anything you want about
me. OK?
Most generous of you.
But your permission is not enough, I require e vidence, and the evidence I have,
poor as it is, indicates that you are a theist.
It's not like I give a ***** what a moron like you thinks about me.....
And yet you keep begging for attention.
Huh? You think that a person lau ghing at clowns is begging for
attention?
No, you are.
Hahahahahaha!
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| User: "nevermore" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism Is Built On A Leap Of Blind Faith |
07 Nov 2005 06:42:12 AM |
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On 6 Nov 2005 10:19:07 -0800, "Del" <jfacts@earthlink.net> wrote:
nevermore wrote:
On 5 Nov 2005 07:36:24 -0800, "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason
Gastrich's effort" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote:
nevermore wrote:
On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 20:33:57 GMT, Dubh Ghall <puck@pooks.hill.fey>
wrote:
On Th u, 03 Nov 2005 09:51:03 -0500, nevermore <stevencanyon@y***hoo.com> wrote:
Oh well, I'll give you permission to believe anything you want about
me. OK?
Most generous of you.
But your permission is not enough, I require e vidence, and the evidence I have,
poor as it is, indicates that you are a theist.
It's not like I give a ***** what a moron like you thinks about me.....
And yet you keep begging for attention.
Huh? You think that a person lau ghing at clowns is begging for
attention?
No, you are.
Hahahahahaha!
Oh my, the atheist can actually perform a seven syllable laugh...
Very impressive indeed...
--
Steve
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| User: "Del" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism Is Built On A Leap Of Blind Faith |
07 Nov 2005 06:45:07 PM |
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This is fun: push button. Knee jerks...
nevermore wrote:
On 6 Nov 2005 10:19:07 -0800, "Del" <jfacts@earthlink.net> wrote:
nevermore wrote:
On 5 Nov 2005 07:36:24 -0800, "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason
Gastrich's effort" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote:
nevermore wrote:
On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 20:33:57 GMT, Dubh Ghall <puck@pooks.hill.fey>
wrote:
On Th u, 03 Nov 2005 09:51:03 -0500, nevermore <stevencanyon@y***hoo.com> wrote:
Oh well, I'll give you permission to believe anything you want about
me. OK?
Most generous of you.
But your permission is not enough, I require e vidence, and the evidence I have,
poor as it is, indicates that you are a theist.
It's not like I give a ***** what a moron like you thinks about me.....
And yet you keep begging for attention.
Huh? You think that a person lau ghing at clowns is begging for
attention?
No, you are.
Hahahahahaha!
Oh my, the atheist can actually perform a seven syllable laugh...
That's right. Make sure you count every one of them. Hahahahahahaha!
Very impressive indeed...
Plebes are always impressed by their betters.
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| User: "nevermore" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism Is Built On A Leap Of Blind Faith |
07 Nov 2005 07:48:10 PM |
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On 7 Nov 2005 16:45:07 -0800, "Del" <jfacts@earthlink.net> wrote:
This is fun: push button. Knee jerks...
nevermore wrote:
On 6 Nov 2005 10:19:07 -0800, "Del" <jfacts@earthlink.net> wrote:
nevermore wrote:
On 5 Nov 2005 07:36:24 -0800, "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason
Gastrich's effort" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote:
nevermore wrote:
On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 20:33:57 GMT, Dubh Ghall <puck@pooks.hill.fey>
wrote:
On Th u, 03 Nov 2005 09:51:03 -0500, nevermore <stevencanyon@y***hoo.com> wrote:
Oh well, I'll give you permission to believe anything you want about
me. OK?
Most generous of you.
But your permission is not enough, I require e vidence, and the evidence I have,
poor as it is, indicates that you are a theist.
It's not like I give a ***** what a moron like you thinks about me.....
And yet you keep begging for attention.
Huh? You think that a person lau ghing at clowns is begging for
attention?
No, you are.
Hahahahahaha!
Oh my, the atheist can actually perform a seven syllable laugh...
That's right. Make sure you count every one of them. Hahahahahahaha!
Very impressive indeed...
Plebes are always impressed by their betters.
<LOL> more posturing from the moron, Del.
--
Steve
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism Is Built On A Leap Of Blind Faith |
30 Oct 2005 01:18:29 PM |
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nevermore wrote:
X is chi, the first letter in Christ in Greek.
<LOL> Well, hell, that means that the moron can't read because I
repeatedly said that I was an agnostic...
That figures cause you have to be dumber than dirt to go around
claiming that you know there is no god....
Perhaps but when science performs a few tens of thousands of experiments to
produce something allowed by a theory and the results are negative, it tends
to believe the theory is wrong in that aspect.
Billions and billions of experiments based on the attributes of any
particular god have been performed with no positive results.
There is less evidence for the existence of a god than there is for the
chocolate cake with thirteen candles on it in orbit around Pluto.
As a scientist you would have to take an agnostic view on both because there
is no technology to support either.
As an individual you'd probably say you "know" there is no cake.
Me? I'd go with the cake before a god - even if it was store bought.
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| User: "nevermore" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism Is Built On A Leap Of Blind Faith |
30 Oct 2005 05:45:09 PM |
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On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 19:18:29 GMT, "Mike Painter"
<mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
nevermore wrote:
X is chi, the first letter in Christ in Greek.
<LOL> Well, hell, that means that the moron can't read because I
repeatedly said that I was an agnostic...
That figures cause you have to be dumber than dirt to go around
claiming that you know there is no god....
Perhaps but when science performs a few tens of thousands of experiments to
produce something allowed by a theory and the results are negative, it tends
to believe the theory is wrong in that aspect.
Billions and billions of experiments based on the attributes of any
particular god have been performed with no positive results.
There is less evidence for the existence of a god than there is for the
chocolate cake with thirteen candles on it in orbit around Pluto.
As a scientist you would have to take an agnostic view on both because there
is no technology to support either.
As an individual you'd probably say you "know" there is no cake.
Me? I'd go with the cake before a god - even if it was store bought.
Perhaps so, but I note the irony of there fact that there is no name
associated with believing there is no cake... the point here, in
case you missed it, is that people who believe there is no god have a
sort of cult of like minded people.... It is just as much a belief
with no facts to back it up, as any religion.
I find it terribly funny to see your types pretend that you're sort of
intellectually superior to what you call "xtians," when your belief
system is based on just as much faith as theirs....
--
Steve
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| User: "Mani Deli" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism Is Built On A Leap Of Blind Faith |
31 Oct 2005 08:48:59 AM |
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On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 18:45:09 -0500, nevermore
<stevencanyon@y***hoo.com> wrote:
I find it terribly funny to see your types pretend that you're sort of
intellectually superior to what you call "xtians," when your belief
system is based on just as much faith as theirs....
"We may define "faith" as the firm belief in something for which there
is no evidence. Where there is evidence, no one speaks of "faith."
We do not speak of faith that two and two are four or that the earth
is round. We only speak of faith when we wish to substitute emotion
for evidence. The substitution of emotion for evidence is apt to
lead to strife, since different groups, substitute different
emotions."
[Bertrand Russell]
God is the immature man's Santa Claus
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| User: "nevermore" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism Is Built On A Leap Of Blind Faith |
31 Oct 2005 07:33:14 PM |
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On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 09:48:59 -0500, Mani Deli <mani@sympatico.ca>
wrote:
On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 18:45:09 -0500, nevermore
<stevencanyon@y***hoo.com> wrote:
I find it terribly funny to see your types pretend that you're sort of
intellectually superior to what you call "xtians," when your belief
system is based on just as much faith as theirs....
"We may define "faith" as the firm belief in something for which there
is no evidence.
....and....... ???????
--
Steve
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism Is Built On A Leap Of Blind Faith |
01 Nov 2005 06:12:44 AM |
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On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 20:33:14 -0500, nevermore
<stevencanyon@y***hoo.com> wrote:
On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 09:48:59 -0500, Mani Deli <mani@sympatico.ca>
wrote:
On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 18:45:09 -0500, nevermore
<stevencanyon@y***hoo.com> wrote:
I find it terribly funny to see your types pretend that you're sort of
intellectually superior to what you call "xtians," when your belief
system is based on just as much faith as theirs....
"We may define "faith" as the firm belief in something for which there
is no evidence.
...and....... ???????
Which makes it worthless.
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| User: "RainLover" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism Is Built On A Leap Of Blind Faith |
31 Oct 2005 08:42:56 AM |
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On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 18:45:09 -0500, nevermore
<stevencanyon@y***hoo.com> wrote:
On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 19:18:29 GMT, "Mike Painter"
<mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
nevermore wrote:
X is chi, the first letter in Christ in Greek.
<LOL> Well, hell, that means that the moron can't read because I
repeatedly said that I was an agnostic...
That figures cause you have to be dumber than dirt to go around
claiming that you know there is no god....
Perhaps but when science performs a few tens of thousands of experiments to
produce something allowed by a theory and the results are negative, it tends
to believe the theory is wrong in that aspect.
Billions and billions of experiments based on the attributes of any
particular god have been performed with no positive results.
There is less evidence for the existence of a god than there is for the
chocolate cake with thirteen candles on it in orbit around Pluto.
As a scientist you would have to take an agnostic view on both because there
is no technology to support either.
As an individual you'd probably say you "know" there is no cake.
Me? I'd go with the cake before a god - even if it was store bought.
Perhaps so, but I note the irony of there fact that there is no name
associated with believing there is no cake... the point here, in
case you missed it, is that people who believe there is no god have a
sort of cult of like minded people....
Ever hear the term "herding cats"? Ever try to herd ONE... try a
million. Atheists are NOT part of some cohesive group. I'm willing
to bet that most of the atheists posting in alt.atheist contact with
OTHER atheists (other than loved ones) is HERE... There aren't
groups, churches, marches, anything...
It is just as much a belief
with no facts to back it up, as any religion.
Most atheists SAY 'there's no god" just like YOU would say, 'there is
no chocolate cake orbiting Mars'. In REALITY, you don't know if
there's a cake or not, although you would suspect the odds are low,
and with absolutely NO evidence for the cake, you'd just say it isn't
there, right?
If PRESSED, you'd probably say "sure, there COULD be a cake, but
there's no reason to believe it"
That is the position of the majority of atheists on all gods (not just
one particular god).
Back to the 'cake'... I'm willing to bet, if pressed on the issue,
you'd say "There is absolutely no chocolate cake orbit Mars, moreso,
I'm am Positive that there are no yummy baked-goods of any kind
orbiting Mars."
"Weak" atheists would say, there's no cake... but it COULD be there.
"Strong" atheists would say "There's no cake, the idea is stupid and
made up."
When it comes to THE CAKE... I'm sure you are a 'Strong' "a-cakist".
Does this mean YOU are in a anti-cake cult? Does this mean you
Worship the denial of THE CAKE? Does this mean you know the cake
exists but deny It?
THIS is how atheists see gods.
I find it terribly funny to see your types pretend that you're sort of
intellectually superior to what you call "xtians," when your belief
system is based on just as much faith as theirs....
So, you think your utter DENIAL of the 'fact' that there is a
chocolate cake orbiting Mars is on equal par to those who not only
KNOW the cake is there, but KNOW the cake wants submission to it?
I'll point this out again.... There is EXACTLY THE SAME evidence for
all of the following:
Orbiting Cake = Invisible Pink Unicorn = Zeus = God = Tree Spirit
James, Seattle
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| User: "nevermore" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism Is Built On A Leap Of Blind Faith |
31 Oct 2005 07:33:13 PM |
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On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 06:42:56 -0800, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> wrote:
On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 18:45:09 -0500, nevermore
<stevencanyon@y***hoo.com> wrote:
On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 19:18:29 GMT, "Mike Painter"
<mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
nevermore wrote:
X is chi, the first letter in Christ in Greek.
<LOL> Well, hell, that means that the moron can't read because I
repeatedly said that I was an agnostic...
That figures cause you have to be dumber than dirt to go around
claiming that you know there is no god....
Perhaps but when science performs a few tens of thousands of experiments to
produce something allowed by a theory and the results are negative, it tends
to believe the theory is wrong in that aspect.
Billions and billions of experiments based on the attributes of any
particular god have been performed with no positive results.
There is less evidence for the existence of a god than there is for the
chocolate cake with thirteen candles on it in orbit around Pluto.
As a scientist you would have to take an agnostic view on both because there
is no technology to support either.
As an individual you'd probably say you "know" there is no cake.
Me? I'd go with the cake before a god - even if it was store bought.
Perhaps so, but I note the irony of there fact that there is no name
associated with believing there is no cake... the point here, in
case you missed it, is that people who believe there is no god have a
sort of cult of like minded people....
Ever hear the term "herding cats"? Ever try to herd ONE... try a
million. Atheists are NOT part of some cohesive group.
<LOL> Atheists have their own club where they give out membership
numbers.....
--
Steve
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| User: "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrichs effort" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism Is Built On A Leap Of Blind Faith |
01 Nov 2005 09:03:31 AM |
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nevermore wrote:
On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 06:42:56 -0800, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> wrote:
Ever hear the term "herding cats"? Ever try to herd ONE... try a
million. Atheists are NOT part of some cohesive group.
<LOL> Atheists have their own club where they give out membership
numbers.....
LOL. Thank you for conclusively demonstrating you don't know what
you're talking about.
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| User: "RUSSELL KINNAMAN" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism Is Built On A Leap Of Blind Faith |
02 Nov 2005 10:59:40 AM |
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Not all people that agree with atheists agree.
If one does not question one cannot be tuely free.
In the bible it says believe a lie and be damned. How does one know
something is a lie if one does not question?
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism Is Built On A Leap Of Blind Faith |
02 Nov 2005 12:14:11 PM |
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On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 08:59:40 -0800,
(RUSSELL KINNAMAN) wrote:
Not all people that agree with atheists agree.
If one does not question one cannot be tuely free.
In the bible it says believe a lie and be damned. How does one know
something is a lie if one does not question?
It's theists who have something to question, not atheists.
The theist's deity (whichever one it is) is merely one of several
thousand different deity-beliefs all of which are only relevant to
their particular believers.
In other words the Christian one is just as much somebody else's
irrelevant belief, as eg Zeus, Thor and all the others are to
Christians.
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| User: "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrichs effort" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism Is Built On A Leap Of Blind Faith |
02 Nov 2005 12:31:33 PM |
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RUSSELL KINNAMAN wrote:
Not all people that agree with atheists agree.
Huh?
If one does not question one cannot be tuely free.
So if I question the existence of deities, I'm free?
In the bible it says believe a lie and be damned.
So Adam and Eve were damned when they believe the lie god told?
Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat
of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
How does one know something is a lie if one does not question?
If it contradicts reality.
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| User: "RUSSELL KINNAMAN" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism Is Built On A Leap Of Blind Faith |
02 Nov 2005 07:13:41 PM |
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Not all people that agee with atheists agree with everything they and
atheists believe. But we do agree with the premise that most proposed
gods are either confused or not dependable enough to have any faith in.
If you go about believing something is true without question then you
can be decieved.
Therefore, the saying "believe a lie and be damned. You cannot be
lied to if you question what you are being told.
Although there is a few parables that have a basis in truth. Like
don't build your house on sand. Christians don't pay much attention t
this parable. Where I live they have built their churches on the sand
along the coast. And I would say a lot of the houses built there are
also those of christians.
These people aren't really very aware of the alternate meaning of the
parable. These houses are either to close to the ocean or they will sink
in an eathquake that turns that sand into the equivelant of soup.
The old hebrews were observant and tried to preserve what they had
learned.
If you questioned those proposed god types. You weren't so likely to
be used as a slave or servant. Now days you will just be left behind
because slaves and servants aren't in such demand. So far as gaining
knowledge goes because your brain lacks some the functions that allows
for you to compete.
My father said that an educated idiot is worse than the usual. Good
thing I have only a bit of an education.Huh!
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| User: "nevermore" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism Is Built On A Leap Of Blind Faith |
01 Nov 2005 02:20:58 PM |
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On 1 Nov 2005 07:03:31 -0800, "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason
Gastrich's effort" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote:
nevermore wrote:
On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 06:42:56 -0800, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> wrote:
Ever hear the term "herding cats"? Ever try to herd ONE... try a
million. Atheists are NOT part of some cohesive group.
<LOL> Atheists have their own club where they give out membership
numbers.....
LOL. Thank you for conclusively demonstrating you don't know what
you're talking about.
<LOL> Irony anyone? Have you not seen those little numbers at the
bottom of some atheists' posts...
--
Steve
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| User: "Dubh Ghall" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism Is Built On A Leap Of Blind Faith |
03 Nov 2005 06:03:29 AM |
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On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 15:20:58 -0500, nevermore <stevencanyon@y***hoo.com> wrote:
<LOL> Irony anyone? Have you not seen those little numbers at the
bottom of some atheists' posts...
But you have no idea what it is: Have you?
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| User: "nevermore" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism Is Built On A Leap Of Blind Faith |
03 Nov 2005 08:51:04 AM |
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On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 12:03:29 GMT, Dubh Ghall <puck@pooks.hill.fey>
wrote:
On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 15:20:58 -0500, nevermore <stevencanyon@y***hoo.com> wrote:
<LOL> Irony anyone? Have you not seen those little numbers at the
bottom of some atheists' posts...
But you have no idea what it is: Have you?
Yeah, it's a membership number.
--
Steve
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| User: "Dubh Ghall" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism Is Built On A Leap Of Blind Faith |
04 Nov 2005 02:34:35 PM |
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On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 09:51:04 -0500, nevermore <stevencanyon@y***hoo.com> wrote:
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 12:03:29 GMT, Dubh Ghall <puck@pooks.hill.fey>
wrote:
On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 15:20:58 -0500, nevermore <stevencanyon@y***hoo.com> wrote:
<LOL> Irony anyone? Have you not seen those little numbers at the
bottom of some atheists' posts...
But you have no idea what it is: Have you?
Yeah, it's a membership number.
Nope.
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| User: "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrichs effort" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism Is Built On A Leap Of Blind Faith |
03 Nov 2005 10:05:13 AM |
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nevermore wrote:
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 12:03:29 GMT, Dubh Ghall <puck@pooks.hill.fey>
wrote:
On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 15:20:58 -0500, nevermore <stevencanyon@y***hoo.com> wrote:
<LOL> Irony anyone? Have you not seen those little numbers at the
bottom of some atheists' posts...
But you have no idea what it is: Have you?
Yeah, it's a membership number.
Oops, still wrong.
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| User: "2032 Dead" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism Is Built On A Leap Of Blind Faith |
03 Nov 2005 10:36:01 AM |
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On 3 Nov 2005 08:05:13 -0800, "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason
Gastrich's effort" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote:
nevermore wrote:
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 12:03:29 GMT, Dubh Ghall <puck@pooks.hill.fey>
wrote:
On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 15:20:58 -0500, nevermore <stevencanyon@y***hoo.com> wrote:
<LOL> Irony anyone? Have you not seen those little numbers at the
bottom of some atheists' posts...
But you have no idea what it is: Have you?
Yeah, it's a membership number.
Oops, still wrong.
Gee, no meetings, no dues. I don't even get email.
Only minds capable of believing in invisible sky pixies would consider
that proof of membership.
--
"'I’m not meeting with that goddamned *****,' Bush screamed at aides
who suggested he meet with Cindy Sheehan, the war-protesting mother
whose son died in Iraq. 'She can go to hell as far as I’m concerned!'"
--Putsch, a decompensating drunk
"Grover Norquist couldn't drown the government, so he drowned New Orleans instead."
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
Pay your taxes so the rich don't have to.
For the finest in liberal/leftist commentary,
http://www.zeppscommentaries.com
For news feed (free, 10-20 articles a day)
http://groups.yahoo.com/subscribe/zepps_news
For essays (donations accepted, 2 articles/week)
http://groups.yahoo.com/subscribe/zepps_essays
a.a. #2211 -- Bryan Zepp Jamieson
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| User: "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason Gastrichs effort" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism Is Built On A Leap Of Blind Faith |
03 Nov 2005 11:48:19 AM |
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2032 Dead wrote:
On 3 Nov 2005 08:05:13 -0800, "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason
Gastrich's effort" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote:
nevermore wrote:
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 12:03:29 GMT, Dubh Ghall <puck@pooks.hill.fey>
wrote:
On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 15:20:58 -0500, nevermore <stevencanyon@y***hoo.com> wrote:
<LOL> Irony anyone? Have you not seen those little numbers at the
bottom of some atheists' posts...
But you have no idea what it is: Have you?
Yeah, it's a membership number.
Oops, still wrong.
Gee, no meetings, no dues. I don't even get email.
Only minds capable of believing in invisible sky pixies would consider
that proof of membership.
Maybe it's a variation on the theistic "you must believe in
*something*" argument; you must belong to *some* club.
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| User: "nevermore" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism Is Built On A Leap Of Blind Faith |
03 Nov 2005 06:23:24 PM |
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On 3 Nov 2005 09:48:19 -0800, "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason
Gastrich's effort" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote:
2032 Dead wrote:
On 3 Nov 2005 08:05:13 -0800, "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason
Gastrich's effort" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote:
nevermore wrote:
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 12:03:29 GMT, Dubh Ghall <puck@pooks.hill.fey>
wrote:
On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 15:20:58 -0500, nevermore <stevencanyon@y***hoo.com> wrote:
<LOL> Irony anyone? Have you not seen those little numbers at the
bottom of some atheists' posts...
But you have no idea what it is: Have you?
Yeah, it's a membership number.
Oops, still wrong.
Gee, no meetings, no dues. I don't even get email.
Only minds capable of believing in invisible sky pixies would consider
that proof of membership.
Maybe it's a variation on the theistic "you must believe in
*something*" argument; you must belong to *some* club.
<LOL> yet this atheist group has sprung up because the share the
same belief.. and it is a belief. How many groups are there for
people who don't have other beliefs, such as not believing in the
Easter Bunny... indeed how many such people even have an identifying
name?
--
Steve
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| User: "RainLover" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism Is Built On A Leap Of Blind Faith |
04 Nov 2005 08:46:23 AM |
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On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 19:23:24 -0500, nevermore
<stevencanyon@y***hoo.com> wrote:
On 3 Nov 2005 09:48:19 -0800, "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason
Gastrich's effort" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote:
2032 Dead wrote:
On 3 Nov 2005 08:05:13 -0800, "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason
Gastrich's effort" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote:
nevermore wrote:
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 12:03:29 GMT, Dubh Ghall <puck@pooks.hill.fey>
SNIP
Gee, no meetings, no dues. I don't even get email.
Only minds capable of believing in invisible sky pixies would consider
that proof of membership.
Maybe it's a variation on the theistic "you must believe in
*something*" argument; you must belong to *some* club.
<LOL> yet this atheist group has sprung up because the share the
same belief.. and it is a belief. How many groups are there for
people who don't have other beliefs, such as not believing in the
Easter Bunny... indeed how many such people even have an identifying
name?
It's interesting.. it's almost like Alcholics who desperately need to
find someone who will enable them to drink.
In the most general of terms "atheism" is a belief, as in, I believe I
have no hair, or I believe there is not an invisible Rhinoceros in my
office right now.
You THINK you are creating some sort of slippery slope arguement that
will end in "faith", but you are not. Most atheists are so used to
resisting theists that some buy into that false arguement...
Saying "I believe there are no gods because there is no evidence for
such things" Does NOT lead to FAITH or WORSHIPPING or RELIGION, it's
simply a statement...
For example, I believe all professional Seattle Sport Teams suck...
It doesn't mean I worship them, or, if shown evidence, that I wouldn't
change my mind on the subject.
HEY ATHEISTS: Don't let them mindfuck you on the *WORD* 'belief';
'Belief' doesn't mean faith or worship or a mental-break from reality
like it means for them.
Now.... I do believe I'll have a second cup of coffee...
James, Seattle
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| User: "nevermore" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism Is Built On A Leap Of Blind Faith |
04 Nov 2005 06:32:26 PM |
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On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 06:46:23 -0800, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> wrote:
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 19:23:24 -0500, nevermore
<stevencanyon@y***hoo.com> wrote:
On 3 Nov 2005 09:48:19 -0800, "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason
Gastrich's effort" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote:
2032 Dead wrote:
On 3 Nov 2005 08:05:13 -0800, "JessHC, aa#2220 thanks to Jason
Gastrich's effort" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote:
nevermore wrote:
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 12:03:29 GMT, Dubh Ghall <puck@pooks.hill.fey>
SNIP
Gee, no meetings, no dues. I don't even get email.
Only minds capable of believing in invisible sky pixies would consider
that proof of membership.
Maybe it's a variation on the theistic "you must believe in
*something*" argument; you must belong to *some* club.
<LOL> yet this atheist group has sprung up because the share the
same belief.. and it is a belief. How many groups are there for
people who don't have other beliefs, such as not believing in the
Easter Bunny... indeed how many such people even have an identifying
name?
It's interesting.. it's almost like Alcholics who desperately need to
find someone who will enable them to drink.
In the most general of terms "atheism" is a belief, as in, I believe I
have no hair, or I believe there is not an invisible Rhinoceros in my
office right now.
You THINK you are creating some sort of slippery slope arguement that
will end in "faith", but you are not. Most atheists are so used to
resisting theists that some buy into that false arguement...
Actually, this discussion was not about faith, but whether or not
atheists had beliefs about God, and you just said they did....
Thanks..
Saying "I believe there are no gods because there is no evidence for
such things" Does NOT lead to FAITH or WORSHIPPING or RELIGION, it's
simply a statement...
For example, I believe all professional Seattle Sport Teams suck...
It doesn't mean I worship them, or, if shown evidence, that I wouldn't
change my mind on the subject.
HEY ATHEISTS: Don't let them mindfuck you on the *WORD* 'belief';
'Belief' doesn't mean faith or worship or a mental-break from reality
like it means for them.
Now.... I do believe I'll have a second cup of coffee...
James, Seattle
--
Steve
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| User: "Dubh Ghall" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism Is Built On A Leap Of Blind Faith |
04 Nov 2005 02:36:47 PM |
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On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 19:23:24 -0500, nevermore <stevencanyon@y***hoo.com> wrote:
<LOL> yet this atheist group has sprung up because the share the
same belief.. and it is a belief.
What belief would that be?
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