Religions > Atheism > Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"SongBookz" |
| Date: |
21 Nov 2006 10:36:54 PM |
| Object: |
Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
Everyone has endured the accusations of the adherents of the Athiest
religion in these groups, this article is submitted for discussion purposes
since it is topical to those discussions:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20061121/cm_csm/ydsouza
Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history
By Dinesh D'SouzaTue Nov 21, 3:00 AM ET
In recent months, a spate of atheist books have argued that religion
represents, as "End of Faith" author Sam Harris puts it, "the most potent
source of human conflict, past and present."
Columnist Robert Kuttner gives the familiar litany. "The Crusades
slaughtered millions in the name of Jesus. The Inquisition brought the
torture and murder of millions more. After Martin Luther, Christians did
bloody battle with other Christians for another three centuries."
In his bestseller "The God Delusion," Richard Dawkins contends that most of
the world's recent conflicts - in the Middle East, in the Balkans, in
Northern Ireland, in Kashmir, and in Sri Lanka - show the vitality of
religion's murderous impulse.
The problem with this critique is that it exaggerates the crimes attributed
to religion, while ignoring the greater crimes of secular fanaticism. The
best example of religious persecution in America is the Salem witch trials.
How many people were killed in those trials? Thousands? Hundreds? Actually,
fewer than 25. Yet the event still haunts the liberal imagination.
It is strange to witness the passion with which some secular figures rail
against the misdeeds of the Crusaders and Inquisitors more than 500 years
ago. The number sentenced to death by the Spanish Inquisition appears to be
about 10,000. Some historians contend that an additional 100,000 died in
jail due to malnutrition or illness.
These figures are tragic, and of course population levels were much lower at
the time. But even so, they are minuscule compared with the death tolls
produced by the atheist despotisms of the 20th century. In the name of
creating their version of a religion-free utopia, Adolf Hitler, Joseph
Stalin, and Mao Zedong produced the kind of mass slaughter that no
Inquisitor could possibly match. Collectively these atheist tyrants murdered
more than 100 million people.
Moreover, many of the conflicts that are counted as "religious wars" were
not fought over religion. They were mainly fought over rival claims to
territory and power. Can the wars between England and France be called
religious wars because the English were Protestants and the French were
Catholics? Hardly.
The same is true today. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not, at its
core, a religious one. It arises out of a dispute over self-determination
and land. Hamas and the extreme orthodox parties in Israel may advance
theological claims - "God gave us this land" and so forth - but the conflict
would remain essentially the same even without these religious motives.
Ethnic rivalry, not religion, is the source of the tension in Northern
Ireland and the Balkans.
p>Yet today's atheists insist on making religion the culprit. Consider Mr.
Harris's analysis of the conflict in Sri Lanka. "While the motivations of
the Tamil Tigers are not explicitly religious," he informs us, "they are
Hindus who undoubtedly believe many improbable things about the nature of
life and death." In other words, while the Tigers see themselves as
combatants in a secular political struggle, Harris detects a religious
motive because these people happen to be Hindu and surely there must be some
underlying religious craziness that explains their fanaticism.
Harris can go on forever in this vein. Seeking to exonerate secularism and
atheism from the horrors perpetrated in their name, he argues that Stalinism
and Maoism were in reality "little more than a political religion." As for
Nazism, "while the hatred of Jews in Germany expressed itself in a
predominantly secular way, it was a direct inheritance from medieval
Christianity." Indeed, "The holocaust marked the culmination of ... two
thousand years of Christian fulminating against the Jews."
One finds the same inanities in Mr. Dawkins's work. Don't be fooled by this
rhetorical legerdemain. Dawkins and Harris cannot explain why, if Nazism was
directly descended from medieval Christianity, medieval Christianity did not
produce a Hitler. How can a self-proclaimed atheist ideology, advanced by
Hitler as a repudiation of Christianity, be a "culmination" of 2,000 years
of Christianity? Dawkins and Harris are employing a transparent sleight of
hand that holds Christianity responsible for the crimes committed in its
name, while exonerating secularism and atheism for the greater crimes
committed in their name.
Religious fanatics have done things that are impossible to defend, and some
of them, mostly in the Muslim world, are still performing horrors in the
name of their creed. But if religion sometimes disposes people to
self-righteousness and absolutism, it also provides a moral code that
condemns the slaughter of innocents. In particular, the moral teachings of
Jesus provide no support for - indeed they stand as a stern rebuke to - the
historical injustices perpetrated in the name of Christianity.
Atheist hubrisThe crimes of atheism have generally been perpetrated through
a hubristic ideology that sees man, not God, as the creator of values. Using
the latest techniques of science and technology, man seeks to displace God
and create a secular utopia here on earth. Of course if some people - the
Jews, the landowners, the unfit, or the handicapped - have to be eliminated
in order to achieve this utopia, this is a price the atheist tyrants and
their apologists have shown themselves quite willing to pay. Thus they
confirm the truth of Fyodor Dostoyevsky's dictum, "If God is not, everything
is permitted."
Whatever the motives for atheist bloodthirstiness, the indisputable fact is
that all the religions of the world put together have in 2,000 years not
managed to kill as many people as have been killed in the name of atheism in
the past few decades.
It's time to abandon the mindlessly repeated mantra that religious belief
has been the greatest source of human conflict and violence. Atheism, not
religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history.
* Dinesh D'Souza is the Rishwain Fellow at the Hoover Institution. His new
book, "The Enemy at Home: The Cultural Left and Its Responsibility for
9/11," will be published in January.
Copyright © 2006 The Christian Science Monitor
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| User: "Tuco Ramirez" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
23 Nov 2006 04:43:33 PM |
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Cazador wrote:
Christopher A.Lee wrote:
On 23 Nov 2006 12:00:58 -0800, "Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I think d' Souza's main point is more elementary, that atheism is
*associated* with more killing than is religion. I think this must be
admitted to be factual. Accordingly the real issue is where this truth
leads us.
Except that not believing in the god of somebody else's religion is
not a motivator, justifier or root cause for anything.
You have to look at what people are, not what they aren't, in order to
find motivations.
Atheism no more motivates anybody than not watching baseball, not
collecting stamps etc do.
Militant atheism as a part of a totalitarian ideology has had political
uses. It became a carefully crafted tool with which to destroy or
neutralize traditional moral and ethical systems--which in turn helped
open the floodgates to mass murder and genocide. It did so by relieving
criminal leaderships from organized opposition to blood stained
policies. I'm prepared to demonstrate this to you using the history of
the Soviet Union as the example.
Be prepared for a very receptive audience from Mr. Lee!
He will now be placing his index fingers in his ears and go:
"La La La La, La La La La, I can't hear you!
La La La La, La La La La, I can't hear you!
La La La La, La La La La, I can't hear you!
La La La La, La La La La, I can't hear you!"
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| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
23 Nov 2006 02:57:18 PM |
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On 23 Nov 2006 12:54:11 -0800, "Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Christopher A.Lee wrote:
On 23 Nov 2006 12:00:58 -0800, "Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I think d' Souza's main point is more elementary, that atheism is
*associated* with more killing than is religion. I think this must be
admitted to be factual. Accordingly the real issue is where this truth
leads us.
Except that not believing in the god of somebody else's religion is
not a motivator, justifier or root cause for anything.
You have to look at what people are, not what they aren't, in order to
find motivations.
Atheism no more motivates anybody than not watching baseball, not
collecting stamps etc do.
Militant atheism as a part of a totalitarian ideology has had political
uses. It became a carefully crafted tool with which to destroy or
neutralize traditional moral and ethical systems--which in turn helped
open the floodgates to mass murder and genocide. It did so by relieving
criminal leaderships from organized opposition to blood stained
policies. I'm prepared to demonstrate this to you using the history of
the Soviet Union as the example.
Only in the imagination of the pig-ignorant and bigoted who refuse to
let atheism be the non-event it is.
.
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| User: "SongBookz" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
23 Nov 2006 06:22:09 PM |
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"Christopher A.Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:mn2cm2dutovude22a4v7tuegirnl8du9e6@4ax.com...
On 23 Nov 2006 12:54:11 -0800, "Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Christopher A.Lee wrote:
On 23 Nov 2006 12:00:58 -0800, "Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I think d' Souza's main point is more elementary, that atheism is
*associated* with more killing than is religion. I think this must be
admitted to be factual. Accordingly the real issue is where this truth
leads us.
Except that not believing in the god of somebody else's religion is
not a motivator, justifier or root cause for anything.
You have to look at what people are, not what they aren't, in order to
find motivations.
Atheism no more motivates anybody than not watching baseball, not
collecting stamps etc do.
Militant atheism as a part of a totalitarian ideology has had political
uses. It became a carefully crafted tool with which to destroy or
neutralize traditional moral and ethical systems--which in turn helped
open the floodgates to mass murder and genocide. It did so by relieving
criminal leaderships from organized opposition to blood stained
policies. I'm prepared to demonstrate this to you using the history of
the Soviet Union as the example.
Only in the imagination of the pig-ignorant and bigoted who refuse to
let atheism be the non-event it is.
One can readily see in these very groups that atheism is not a "non-event,"
with various atheists reading the Christian groups looking for opportunities
to troll and respond to posts that were not posted to alt.atheism.
Indeed, the very existence of alt.atheism is demonstrative that atheism is
not a "non-event." If it were really a "non-event," there would be no need
for atheist organizations in the first place, for it would not matter if
people were atheists or not - if it were a "non-event." You don't see
people who don't believe in Thor congregating in apologetics groups to
convince others of the non-existence of Thor, or people who don't collect
stamps gathering in groups to discuss not collecting stamps and to
discourage others from collecting stamps, nor do you see people who don't
watch baseball trolling baseball games in order to debate baseball fans.
In fact, the very existence of athiest groups who share the common belief,
conviction, teaching, whatever one chooses to call it of atheism, makes
alt.atheism and other such groups religious groups, admittedly deity-less
religions, like Zen, but religious groups nonetheless.
--
Terrell D Lewis
http://www.songbookz.com
.
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| User: "Cazador" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
23 Nov 2006 07:22:02 PM |
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SongBookz wrote:
"Christopher A.Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:mn2cm2dutovude22a4v7tuegirnl8du9e6@4ax.com...
On 23 Nov 2006 12:54:11 -0800, "Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Christopher A.Lee wrote:
On 23 Nov 2006 12:00:58 -0800, "Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I think d' Souza's main point is more elementary, that atheism is
*associated* with more killing than is religion. I think this must be
admitted to be factual. Accordingly the real issue is where this truth
leads us.
Except that not believing in the god of somebody else's religion is
not a motivator, justifier or root cause for anything.
You have to look at what people are, not what they aren't, in order to
find motivations.
Atheism no more motivates anybody than not watching baseball, not
collecting stamps etc do.
Militant atheism as a part of a totalitarian ideology has had political
uses. It became a carefully crafted tool with which to destroy or
neutralize traditional moral and ethical systems--which in turn helped
open the floodgates to mass murder and genocide. It did so by relieving
criminal leaderships from organized opposition to blood stained
policies. I'm prepared to demonstrate this to you using the history of
the Soviet Union as the example.
Only in the imagination of the pig-ignorant and bigoted who refuse to
let atheism be the non-event it is.
One can readily see in these very groups that atheism is not a "non-event,"
with various atheists reading the Christian groups looking for opportunities
to troll and respond to posts that were not posted to alt.atheism.
Indeed, the very existence of alt.atheism is demonstrative that atheism is
not a "non-event." If it were really a "non-event," there would be no need
for atheist organizations in the first place, for it would not matter if
people were atheists or not - if it were a "non-event." You don't see
people who don't believe in Thor congregating in apologetics groups to
convince others of the non-existence of Thor, or people who don't collect
stamps gathering in groups to discuss not collecting stamps and to
discourage others from collecting stamps, nor do you see people who don't
watch baseball trolling baseball games in order to debate baseball fans.
In fact, the very existence of athiest groups who share the common belief,
conviction, teaching, whatever one chooses to call it of atheism, makes
alt.atheism and other such groups religious groups, admittedly deity-less
religions, like Zen, but religious groups nonetheless.
Indeed. Faith based entities if only becuase of that giant leap of
faith between agnosticism and atheism.
--
Terrell D Lewis
http://www.songbookz.com
.
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| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
23 Nov 2006 07:26:57 PM |
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On 23 Nov 2006 17:22:02 -0800, "Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com>
wrote:
SongBookz wrote:
"Christopher A.Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:mn2cm2dutovude22a4v7tuegirnl8du9e6@4ax.com...
On 23 Nov 2006 12:54:11 -0800, "Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Christopher A.Lee wrote:
On 23 Nov 2006 12:00:58 -0800, "Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I think d' Souza's main point is more elementary, that atheism is
*associated* with more killing than is religion. I think this must be
admitted to be factual. Accordingly the real issue is where this truth
leads us.
Except that not believing in the god of somebody else's religion is
not a motivator, justifier or root cause for anything.
You have to look at what people are, not what they aren't, in order to
find motivations.
Atheism no more motivates anybody than not watching baseball, not
collecting stamps etc do.
Militant atheism as a part of a totalitarian ideology has had political
uses. It became a carefully crafted tool with which to destroy or
neutralize traditional moral and ethical systems--which in turn helped
open the floodgates to mass murder and genocide. It did so by relieving
criminal leaderships from organized opposition to blood stained
policies. I'm prepared to demonstrate this to you using the history of
the Soviet Union as the example.
Only in the imagination of the pig-ignorant and bigoted who refuse to
let atheism be the non-event it is.
One can readily see in these very groups that atheism is not a "non-event,"
with various atheists reading the Christian groups looking for opportunities
to troll and respond to posts that were not posted to alt.atheism.
Indeed, the very existence of alt.atheism is demonstrative that atheism is
not a "non-event." If it were really a "non-event," there would be no need
for atheist organizations in the first place, for it would not matter if
people were atheists or not - if it were a "non-event." You don't see
people who don't believe in Thor congregating in apologetics groups to
convince others of the non-existence of Thor, or people who don't collect
stamps gathering in groups to discuss not collecting stamps and to
discourage others from collecting stamps, nor do you see people who don't
watch baseball trolling baseball games in order to debate baseball fans.
In fact, the very existence of athiest groups who share the common belief,
conviction, teaching, whatever one chooses to call it of atheism, makes
alt.atheism and other such groups religious groups, admittedly deity-less
religions, like Zen, but religious groups nonetheless.
What "common belief, conviction, teaching, whatever one chooses to
call it" was the poster lying about?
Indeed. Faith based entities if only becuase of that giant leap of
faith between agnosticism and atheism.
It takes no faith whatsoever not to believe something, moron.
You're both too bigoted and nasty to accept that not believing in the
deity of somebody else's religion is no different than not believing
in the Easter Bunny.
.
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| User: "SongBookz" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
23 Nov 2006 08:16:15 PM |
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"Christopher A.Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:aeicm2dufiqte1pumtdj0vqa0arjgoed10@4ax.com...
On 23 Nov 2006 17:22:02 -0800, "Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com>
wrote:
SongBookz wrote:
"Christopher A.Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:mn2cm2dutovude22a4v7tuegirnl8du9e6@4ax.com...
On 23 Nov 2006 12:54:11 -0800, "Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Christopher A.Lee wrote:
On 23 Nov 2006 12:00:58 -0800, "Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I think d' Souza's main point is more elementary, that atheism is
*associated* with more killing than is religion. I think this must
be
admitted to be factual. Accordingly the real issue is where this
truth
leads us.
Except that not believing in the god of somebody else's religion is
not a motivator, justifier or root cause for anything.
You have to look at what people are, not what they aren't, in order
to
find motivations.
Atheism no more motivates anybody than not watching baseball, not
collecting stamps etc do.
Militant atheism as a part of a totalitarian ideology has had
political
uses. It became a carefully crafted tool with which to destroy or
neutralize traditional moral and ethical systems--which in turn helped
open the floodgates to mass murder and genocide. It did so by
relieving
criminal leaderships from organized opposition to blood stained
policies. I'm prepared to demonstrate this to you using the history of
the Soviet Union as the example.
Only in the imagination of the pig-ignorant and bigoted who refuse to
let atheism be the non-event it is.
One can readily see in these very groups that atheism is not a
"non-event,"
with various atheists reading the Christian groups looking for
opportunities
to troll and respond to posts that were not posted to alt.atheism.
Indeed, the very existence of alt.atheism is demonstrative that atheism
is
not a "non-event." If it were really a "non-event," there would be no
need
for atheist organizations in the first place, for it would not matter if
people were atheists or not - if it were a "non-event." You don't see
people who don't believe in Thor congregating in apologetics groups to
convince others of the non-existence of Thor, or people who don't
collect
stamps gathering in groups to discuss not collecting stamps and to
discourage others from collecting stamps, nor do you see people who
don't
watch baseball trolling baseball games in order to debate baseball fans.
In fact, the very existence of athiest groups who share the common
belief,
conviction, teaching, whatever one chooses to call it of atheism, makes
alt.atheism and other such groups religious groups, admittedly
deity-less
religions, like Zen, but religious groups nonetheless.
What "common belief, conviction, teaching, whatever one chooses to
call it" was the poster lying about?
Indeed. Faith based entities if only becuase of that giant leap of
faith between agnosticism and atheism.
It takes no faith whatsoever not to believe something, moron.
You're both too bigoted and nasty to accept that not believing in the
deity of somebody else's religion is no different than not believing
in the Easter Bunny.
There is a huge leap between not believing in the Easter Bunny and forming a
group of people who don't believe in the Easter Bunny - at that point, not
believing in the Easter Bunny becomes a doctrine (teaching) of a religious
group. It is another leap attempt to convince others that the Easter Bunny
doesn't exist - at that point, one has become an anti-Easter Bunny
apologetic. And yet another leap to attempt to convert believers in the
Easter Bunny to non-believers in the Easter Bunny - at that point, the group
is engaging in proselytizing. If believing in the Easter Bunny were a
"non-event" then whether others believe in the Easter Bunny or not would be
of zero concern to Easter Bunny atheists.
--
Terrell D Lewis
http://www.songbookz.com
.
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| User: "Tuco Ramirez" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
23 Nov 2006 04:23:44 PM |
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Christopher A.Lee wrote:
On 23 Nov 2006 12:54:11 -0800, "Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Christopher A.Lee wrote:
On 23 Nov 2006 12:00:58 -0800, "Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I think d' Souza's main point is more elementary, that atheism is
*associated* with more killing than is religion. I think this must be
admitted to be factual. Accordingly the real issue is where this truth
leads us.
Except that not believing in the god of somebody else's religion is
not a motivator, justifier or root cause for anything.
You have to look at what people are, not what they aren't, in order to
find motivations.
Atheism no more motivates anybody than not watching baseball, not
collecting stamps etc do.
Militant atheism as a part of a totalitarian ideology has had political
uses. It became a carefully crafted tool with which to destroy or
neutralize traditional moral and ethical systems--which in turn helped
open the floodgates to mass murder and genocide. It did so by relieving
criminal leaderships from organized opposition to blood stained
policies. I'm prepared to demonstrate this to you using the history of
the Soviet Union as the example.
Only in the imagination of the pig-ignorant and bigoted who refuse to
let atheism be the non-event it is.
As usual, your arguments are eloquent, clear, concise, to the point,
and SPECIALLY, based on reality.
You are my hero.
.
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| User: "Cazador" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
23 Nov 2006 07:42:15 PM |
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Christopher A.Lee wrote:
On 23 Nov 2006 12:54:11 -0800, "Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Christopher A.Lee wrote:
On 23 Nov 2006 12:00:58 -0800, "Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I think d' Souza's main point is more elementary, that atheism is
*associated* with more killing than is religion. I think this must be
admitted to be factual. Accordingly the real issue is where this truth
leads us.
Except that not believing in the god of somebody else's religion is
not a motivator, justifier or root cause for anything.
You have to look at what people are, not what they aren't, in order to
find motivations.
Atheism no more motivates anybody than not watching baseball, not
collecting stamps etc do.
Militant atheism as a part of a totalitarian ideology has had political
uses. It became a carefully crafted tool with which to destroy or
neutralize traditional moral and ethical systems--which in turn helped
open the floodgates to mass murder and genocide. It did so by relieving
criminal leaderships from organized opposition to blood stained
policies. I'm prepared to demonstrate this to you using the history of
the Soviet Union as the example.
Only in the imagination of the pig-ignorant and bigoted who refuse to
let atheism be the non-event it is.
I can handle the frivolous ad hominem comments. But I see no reason to
allow militant atheism, which is historically so fraught with
consequence as a part of Marxist/Leninist ideology, to escape the
real-world consequences. If you mean by these effusions of bile that I
am wrong in my analysis then I suggest that you summon up the guts to
argue the matter with me here in public. Those who use your tactics
tend to be moral and/or intellectual cowards.
.
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| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
23 Nov 2006 08:15:12 PM |
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On 23 Nov 2006 17:42:15 -0800, "Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Christopher A.Lee wrote:
On 23 Nov 2006 12:54:11 -0800, "Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Christopher A.Lee wrote:
On 23 Nov 2006 12:00:58 -0800, "Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I think d' Souza's main point is more elementary, that atheism is
*associated* with more killing than is religion. I think this must be
admitted to be factual. Accordingly the real issue is where this truth
leads us.
Except that not believing in the god of somebody else's religion is
not a motivator, justifier or root cause for anything.
You have to look at what people are, not what they aren't, in order to
find motivations.
Atheism no more motivates anybody than not watching baseball, not
collecting stamps etc do.
Militant atheism as a part of a totalitarian ideology has had political
uses. It became a carefully crafted tool with which to destroy or
neutralize traditional moral and ethical systems--which in turn helped
open the floodgates to mass murder and genocide. It did so by relieving
criminal leaderships from organized opposition to blood stained
policies. I'm prepared to demonstrate this to you using the history of
the Soviet Union as the example.
Only in the imagination of the pig-ignorant and bigoted who refuse to
let atheism be the non-event it is.
I can handle the frivolous ad hominem comments. But I see no reason to
allow militant atheism, which is historically so fraught with
consequence as a part of Marxist/Leninist ideology, to escape the
real-world consequences. If you mean by these effusions of bile that I
am wrong in my analysis then I suggest that you summon up the guts to
argue the matter with me here in public. Those who use your tactics
tend to be moral and/or intellectual cowards.
A sanctimoniously nasty, lying hypocrite who is too stupid to accept
that his imaginary "militant atheism" would be no different than
"militant not-believing-in-the Easter-Bunny".
Why don't you listen to what you are told,?
Hint: it is atheists describing to a pig-ignorant bigot what it means
to be atheist, and you have neither the courtesy nor the common sense
to grasp that hey might actually be telling the truth about this.
You must be a Christian - we know you by your fruits.
The "effusions of bile" and "intellectual cowards" are bigots like you
who resort to slander rather than addressing reality.
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| User: "Cazador" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
23 Nov 2006 09:35:47 PM |
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Christopher A.Lee wrote:
On 23 Nov 2006 17:42:15 -0800, "Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Christopher A.Lee wrote:
On 23 Nov 2006 12:54:11 -0800, "Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Christopher A.Lee wrote:
On 23 Nov 2006 12:00:58 -0800, "Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I think d' Souza's main point is more elementary, that atheism is
*associated* with more killing than is religion. I think this must be
admitted to be factual. Accordingly the real issue is where this truth
leads us.
Except that not believing in the god of somebody else's religion is
not a motivator, justifier or root cause for anything.
You have to look at what people are, not what they aren't, in order to
find motivations.
Atheism no more motivates anybody than not watching baseball, not
collecting stamps etc do.
Militant atheism as a part of a totalitarian ideology has had political
uses. It became a carefully crafted tool with which to destroy or
neutralize traditional moral and ethical systems--which in turn helped
open the floodgates to mass murder and genocide. It did so by relieving
criminal leaderships from organized opposition to blood stained
policies. I'm prepared to demonstrate this to you using the history of
the Soviet Union as the example.
Only in the imagination of the pig-ignorant and bigoted who refuse to
let atheism be the non-event it is.
I can handle the frivolous ad hominem comments. But I see no reason to
allow militant atheism, which is historically so fraught with
consequence as a part of Marxist/Leninist ideology, to escape the
real-world consequences. If you mean by these effusions of bile that I
am wrong in my analysis then I suggest that you summon up the guts to
argue the matter with me here in public. Those who use your tactics
tend to be moral and/or intellectual cowards.
A sanctimoniously nasty, lying hypocrite who is too stupid to accept
that his imaginary "militant atheism" would be no different than
"militant not-believing-in-the Easter-Bunny".
Why don't you listen to what you are told,?
Hint: it is atheists describing to a pig-ignorant bigot what it means
to be atheist, and you have neither the courtesy nor the common sense
to grasp that hey might actually be telling the truth about this.
You must be a Christian - we know you by your fruits.
I am an agnostic, sir, and you have proved yourself again to be a moral
and/or intellectual coward. Here you are facing a damning claim
regarding the association of militant atheism with 20th Century
Marxist/Leninist mass murders and genocides. Your interlocutor offers
offers proof of what he says and instead of being willing to discuss it
in civil fashion you can only retreat into ad hominem insult. I say
again, this is the behavior of a coward.
The "effusions of bile" and "intellectual cowards" are bigots like you
who resort to slander rather than addressing reality.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Don Kresch" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
24 Nov 2006 08:47:30 AM |
|
|
In alt.atheism On 23 Nov 2006 19:35:47 -0800, "Cazador"
<coaster132000@yahoo.com> let us all know that:
Christopher A.Lee wrote:
On 23 Nov 2006 17:42:15 -0800, "Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Christopher A.Lee wrote:
On 23 Nov 2006 12:54:11 -0800, "Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Christopher A.Lee wrote:
On 23 Nov 2006 12:00:58 -0800, "Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I think d' Souza's main point is more elementary, that atheism is
*associated* with more killing than is religion. I think this must be
admitted to be factual. Accordingly the real issue is where this truth
leads us.
Except that not believing in the god of somebody else's religion is
not a motivator, justifier or root cause for anything.
You have to look at what people are, not what they aren't, in order to
find motivations.
Atheism no more motivates anybody than not watching baseball, not
collecting stamps etc do.
Militant atheism as a part of a totalitarian ideology has had political
uses. It became a carefully crafted tool with which to destroy or
neutralize traditional moral and ethical systems--which in turn helped
open the floodgates to mass murder and genocide. It did so by relieving
criminal leaderships from organized opposition to blood stained
policies. I'm prepared to demonstrate this to you using the history of
the Soviet Union as the example.
Only in the imagination of the pig-ignorant and bigoted who refuse to
let atheism be the non-event it is.
I can handle the frivolous ad hominem comments. But I see no reason to
allow militant atheism, which is historically so fraught with
consequence as a part of Marxist/Leninist ideology, to escape the
real-world consequences. If you mean by these effusions of bile that I
am wrong in my analysis then I suggest that you summon up the guts to
argue the matter with me here in public. Those who use your tactics
tend to be moral and/or intellectual cowards.
A sanctimoniously nasty, lying hypocrite who is too stupid to accept
that his imaginary "militant atheism" would be no different than
"militant not-believing-in-the Easter-Bunny".
Why don't you listen to what you are told,?
Hint: it is atheists describing to a pig-ignorant bigot what it means
to be atheist, and you have neither the courtesy nor the common sense
to grasp that hey might actually be telling the truth about this.
You must be a Christian - we know you by your fruits.
I am an agnostic, sir,
Agnostic what? You can't just be agnostic--that's impossible.
and you have proved yourself again to be a moral
and/or intellectual coward. Here you are facing a damning claim
regarding the association of militant atheism with 20th Century
Marxist/Leninist mass murders and genocides.
How is it damning?
Don
---
aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man"
.
|
|
|
| User: "Cazador" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
24 Nov 2006 09:08:13 AM |
|
|
Don Kresch wrote:
In alt.atheism On 23 Nov 2006 19:35:47 -0800, "Cazador"
<coaster132000@yahoo.com> let us all know that:
Christopher A.Lee wrote:
On 23 Nov 2006 17:42:15 -0800, "Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Christopher A.Lee wrote:
On 23 Nov 2006 12:54:11 -0800, "Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Christopher A.Lee wrote:
On 23 Nov 2006 12:00:58 -0800, "Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I think d' Souza's main point is more elementary, that atheism is
*associated* with more killing than is religion. I think this must be
admitted to be factual. Accordingly the real issue is where this truth
leads us.
Except that not believing in the god of somebody else's religion is
not a motivator, justifier or root cause for anything.
You have to look at what people are, not what they aren't, in order to
find motivations.
Atheism no more motivates anybody than not watching baseball, not
collecting stamps etc do.
Militant atheism as a part of a totalitarian ideology has had political
uses. It became a carefully crafted tool with which to destroy or
neutralize traditional moral and ethical systems--which in turn helped
open the floodgates to mass murder and genocide. It did so by relieving
criminal leaderships from organized opposition to blood stained
policies. I'm prepared to demonstrate this to you using the history of
the Soviet Union as the example.
Only in the imagination of the pig-ignorant and bigoted who refuse to
let atheism be the non-event it is.
I can handle the frivolous ad hominem comments. But I see no reason to
allow militant atheism, which is historically so fraught with
consequence as a part of Marxist/Leninist ideology, to escape the
real-world consequences. If you mean by these effusions of bile that I
am wrong in my analysis then I suggest that you summon up the guts to
argue the matter with me here in public. Those who use your tactics
tend to be moral and/or intellectual cowards.
A sanctimoniously nasty, lying hypocrite who is too stupid to accept
that his imaginary "militant atheism" would be no different than
"militant not-believing-in-the Easter-Bunny".
Why don't you listen to what you are told,?
Hint: it is atheists describing to a pig-ignorant bigot what it means
to be atheist, and you have neither the courtesy nor the common sense
to grasp that hey might actually be telling the truth about this.
You must be a Christian - we know you by your fruits.
I am an agnostic, sir,
Agnostic what? You can't just be agnostic--that's impossible.
Hardly.
and you have proved yourself again to be a moral
and/or intellectual coward. Here you are facing a damning claim
regarding the association of militant atheism with 20th Century
Marxist/Leninist mass murders and genocides.
How is it damning?
Don
You haven't been paying attention.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Don Kresch" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
24 Nov 2006 06:09:13 PM |
|
|
In alt.atheism On 24 Nov 2006 07:08:13 -0800, "Cazador"
<coaster132000@yahoo.com> let us all know that:
Don Kresch wrote:
In alt.atheism On 23 Nov 2006 19:35:47 -0800, "Cazador"
<coaster132000@yahoo.com> let us all know that:
Christopher A.Lee wrote:
On 23 Nov 2006 17:42:15 -0800, "Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Christopher A.Lee wrote:
On 23 Nov 2006 12:54:11 -0800, "Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Christopher A.Lee wrote:
On 23 Nov 2006 12:00:58 -0800, "Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I think d' Souza's main point is more elementary, that atheism is
*associated* with more killing than is religion. I think this must be
admitted to be factual. Accordingly the real issue is where this truth
leads us.
Except that not believing in the god of somebody else's religion is
not a motivator, justifier or root cause for anything.
You have to look at what people are, not what they aren't, in order to
find motivations.
Atheism no more motivates anybody than not watching baseball, not
collecting stamps etc do.
Militant atheism as a part of a totalitarian ideology has had political
uses. It became a carefully crafted tool with which to destroy or
neutralize traditional moral and ethical systems--which in turn helped
open the floodgates to mass murder and genocide. It did so by relieving
criminal leaderships from organized opposition to blood stained
policies. I'm prepared to demonstrate this to you using the history of
the Soviet Union as the example.
Only in the imagination of the pig-ignorant and bigoted who refuse to
let atheism be the non-event it is.
I can handle the frivolous ad hominem comments. But I see no reason to
allow militant atheism, which is historically so fraught with
consequence as a part of Marxist/Leninist ideology, to escape the
real-world consequences. If you mean by these effusions of bile that I
am wrong in my analysis then I suggest that you summon up the guts to
argue the matter with me here in public. Those who use your tactics
tend to be moral and/or intellectual cowards.
A sanctimoniously nasty, lying hypocrite who is too stupid to accept
that his imaginary "militant atheism" would be no different than
"militant not-believing-in-the Easter-Bunny".
Why don't you listen to what you are told,?
Hint: it is atheists describing to a pig-ignorant bigot what it means
to be atheist, and you have neither the courtesy nor the common sense
to grasp that hey might actually be telling the truth about this.
You must be a Christian - we know you by your fruits.
I am an agnostic, sir,
Agnostic what? You can't just be agnostic--that's impossible.
Hardly.
Not hardly. To be agnostic is to lack all knowledge. But
clearly you have knowledge of yourself, external reality, language,
syntax, grammar, other beings like myself who can understand the
language, the internet, etc. etc.
So you clearly CANNOT simply be agnostic. You MUST qualify
what you are agnostic about.
and you have proved yourself again to be a moral
and/or intellectual coward. Here you are facing a damning claim
regarding the association of militant atheism with 20th Century
Marxist/Leninist mass murders and genocides.
How is it damning?
You haven't been paying attention.
I have. How is it damning?
Don
---
aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man"
.
|
|
|
| User: "Cazador" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
24 Nov 2006 11:35:54 PM |
|
|
Don Kresch wrote:
In alt.atheism On 24 Nov 2006 07:08:13 -0800, "Cazador"
<coaster132000@yahoo.com> let us all know that:
Don Kresch wrote:
In alt.atheism On 23 Nov 2006 19:35:47 -0800, "Cazador"
<coaster132000@yahoo.com> let us all know that:
Christopher A.Lee wrote:
On 23 Nov 2006 17:42:15 -0800, "Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Christopher A.Lee wrote:
On 23 Nov 2006 12:54:11 -0800, "Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Christopher A.Lee wrote:
On 23 Nov 2006 12:00:58 -0800, "Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I think d' Souza's main point is more elementary, that atheism is
*associated* with more killing than is religion. I think this must be
admitted to be factual. Accordingly the real issue is where this truth
leads us.
Except that not believing in the god of somebody else's religion is
not a motivator, justifier or root cause for anything.
You have to look at what people are, not what they aren't, in order to
find motivations.
Atheism no more motivates anybody than not watching baseball, not
collecting stamps etc do.
Militant atheism as a part of a totalitarian ideology has had political
uses. It became a carefully crafted tool with which to destroy or
neutralize traditional moral and ethical systems--which in turn helped
open the floodgates to mass murder and genocide. It did so by relieving
criminal leaderships from organized opposition to blood stained
policies. I'm prepared to demonstrate this to you using the history of
the Soviet Union as the example.
Only in the imagination of the pig-ignorant and bigoted who refuse to
let atheism be the non-event it is.
I can handle the frivolous ad hominem comments. But I see no reason to
allow militant atheism, which is historically so fraught with
consequence as a part of Marxist/Leninist ideology, to escape the
real-world consequences. If you mean by these effusions of bile that I
am wrong in my analysis then I suggest that you summon up the guts to
argue the matter with me here in public. Those who use your tactics
tend to be moral and/or intellectual cowards.
A sanctimoniously nasty, lying hypocrite who is too stupid to accept
that his imaginary "militant atheism" would be no different than
"militant not-believing-in-the Easter-Bunny".
Why don't you listen to what you are told,?
Hint: it is atheists describing to a pig-ignorant bigot what it means
to be atheist, and you have neither the courtesy nor the common sense
to grasp that hey might actually be telling the truth about this.
You must be a Christian - we know you by your fruits.
I am an agnostic, sir,
Agnostic what? You can't just be agnostic--that's impossible.
Hardly.
Not hardly. To be agnostic is to lack all knowledge. But
clearly you have knowledge of yourself, external reality, language,
syntax, grammar, other beings like myself who can understand the
language, the internet, etc. etc.
So you clearly CANNOT simply be agnostic. You MUST qualify
what you are agnostic about.
Nonsense. Huxley's formulation is understood quite well by most
educated people. It has a commonly understood meaning. Perhaps you
simply don't know it.
and you have proved yourself again to be a moral
and/or intellectual coward. Here you are facing a damning claim
regarding the association of militant atheism with 20th Century
Marxist/Leninist mass murders and genocides.
How is it damning?
You haven't been paying attention.
I have. How is it damning?
I've explained militant atheism's uses by totalitarians. Why should I
repeat myself simply because you ignore my answer and repeat the
question?
.
|
|
|
| User: "William T. Goat" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
30 Nov 2006 10:42:36 AM |
|
|
Cazador wrote:
Don Kresch wrote:
In alt.atheism On 24 Nov 2006 07:08:13 -0800, "Cazador"
<coaster132000@yahoo.com> let us all know that:
Don Kresch wrote:
In alt.atheism On 23 Nov 2006 19:35:47 -0800, "Cazador"
<coaster132000@yahoo.com> let us all know that:
and you have proved yourself again to be a moral
and/or intellectual coward. Here you are facing a damning claim
regarding the association of militant atheism with 20th Century
Marxist/Leninist mass murders and genocides.
How is it damning?
You haven't been paying attention.
I have. How is it damning?
I've explained militant atheism's uses by totalitarians. Why should I
repeat myself simply because you ignore my answer and repeat the
question?
Totalitarians also breathe oxygen. Is this claim "damning" to
oxygen-breathers? Will you now fight and oppose anyone who breathes
oxygen, or do you want oxygen-breathers to "escape the real-world
consequences"?
Totalitarians also eat food. Is this claim "damning" to food-eaters?
Etc.
It's been said that the devil can quote Scripture for his own purposes.
Is this "damning" to Scripture?
--Billy
.
|
|
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| User: "Cazador" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
30 Nov 2006 12:45:47 PM |
|
|
William T. Goat wrote:
Cazador wrote:
Don Kresch wrote:
In alt.atheism On 24 Nov 2006 07:08:13 -0800, "Cazador"
<coaster132000@yahoo.com> let us all know that:
Don Kresch wrote:
In alt.atheism On 23 Nov 2006 19:35:47 -0800, "Cazador"
<coaster132000@yahoo.com> let us all know that:
and you have proved yourself again to be a moral
and/or intellectual coward. Here you are facing a damning claim
regarding the association of militant atheism with 20th Century
Marxist/Leninist mass murders and genocides.
How is it damning?
You haven't been paying attention.
I have. How is it damning?
I've explained militant atheism's uses by totalitarians. Why should I
repeat myself simply because you ignore my answer and repeat the
question?
Totalitarians also breathe oxygen. Is this claim "damning" to
oxygen-breathers? Will you now fight and oppose anyone who breathes
oxygen, or do you want oxygen-breathers to "escape the real-world
consequences"?
Totalitarians also eat food. Is this claim "damning" to food-eaters?
Etc.
It's been said that the devil can quote Scripture for his own purposes.
Is this "damning" to Scripture?
--Billy
You didn't read me closely enough. As a matter of indisputable history
militant atheism proved itself to be adaptable as a rationale for mass
oppression and political murder. That doesn't mean "atheism" per se
pulled the triggers, but atheists certainly did. Atheism was very
suceptible to being used in that context against religionists in Soviet
Union. (See Volkogonov's biography of Lenin, the war on religion
chapter, and Dr. Richard Pipes' "Russia Under the Bolshevik Regime."
Militant atheism became a tool for oppression by Marxist/Leninists. It
doesn't damn individual atheists but it is a fact in their history.
.
|
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|
| User: "William T. Goat" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
30 Nov 2006 09:58:10 PM |
|
|
Cazador wrote:
William T. Goat wrote:
Cazador wrote:
Don Kresch wrote:
In alt.atheism On 24 Nov 2006 07:08:13 -0800, "Cazador"
<coaster132000@yahoo.com> let us all know that:
Don Kresch wrote:
In alt.atheism On 23 Nov 2006 19:35:47 -0800, "Cazador"
<coaster132000@yahoo.com> let us all know that:
and you have proved yourself again to be a moral
and/or intellectual coward. Here you are facing a damning claim
regarding the association of militant atheism with 20th Century
Marxist/Leninist mass murders and genocides.
How is it damning?
You haven't been paying attention.
I have. How is it damning?
I've explained militant atheism's uses by totalitarians. Why should I
repeat myself simply because you ignore my answer and repeat the
question?
Totalitarians also breathe oxygen. Is this claim "damning" to
oxygen-breathers? Will you now fight and oppose anyone who breathes
oxygen, or do you want oxygen-breathers to "escape the real-world
consequences"?
Totalitarians also eat food. Is this claim "damning" to food-eaters?
Etc.
It's been said that the devil can quote Scripture for his own purposes.
Is this "damning" to Scripture?
--Billy
You didn't read me closely enough. As a matter of indisputable history
militant atheism proved itself to be adaptable as a rationale for mass
oppression and political murder. That doesn't mean "atheism" per se
pulled the triggers, but atheists certainly did. Atheism was very
suceptible to being used in that context against religionists in Soviet
Union. (See Volkogonov's biography of Lenin, the war on religion
chapter, and Dr. Richard Pipes' "Russia Under the Bolshevik Regime."
Militant atheism became a tool for oppression by Marxist/Leninists. It
doesn't damn individual atheists but it is a fact in their history.
And also, as a matter of indisputable history, religion has proved
itself to be a rationale for mass oppression and political murder.
Here's the crucial difference: religion *did* pull the trigger. Atheism
merely lets people be themselves. Religion *forbids* people from being
themselves. So when an atheist does evil, it is because the atheist is
an evil person. (Contrary to what you said above, it *does* damn
individual atheists. But only the evil individuals. Everyone else
"escapes the consequences".) But when a religious person does evil, it
is because the religion commanded it.
Of course, none of this indicates whether atheism or religion is true
or false. Nobody seems to want to talk about that; only whether they
are good or evil. As if belief dealt with issues of morality rather
than issues of factuality.
You said that you don't want atheism to "escape the real-world
consequences". What exactly do you mean by that? Do you intend to
punish atheists for crimes committed by other atheists long dead?
Punishing the innocent for the crimes of the guilty does seem to be a
common Christian theme. Hopefully, you and your evil brethren will not
escape the real-world consequences.
--Billy
.
|
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| User: "Cazador" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
30 Nov 2006 10:40:18 PM |
|
|
William T. Goat wrote:
Cazador wrote:
William T. Goat wrote:
Cazador wrote:
Don Kresch wrote:
In alt.atheism On 24 Nov 2006 07:08:13 -0800, "Cazador"
<coaster132000@yahoo.com> let us all know that:
Don Kresch wrote:
In alt.atheism On 23 Nov 2006 19:35:47 -0800, "Cazador"
<coaster132000@yahoo.com> let us all know that:
and you have proved yourself again to be a moral
and/or intellectual coward. Here you are facing a damning claim
regarding the association of militant atheism with 20th Century
Marxist/Leninist mass murders and genocides.
How is it damning?
You haven't been paying attention.
I have. How is it damning?
I've explained militant atheism's uses by totalitarians. Why should I
repeat myself simply because you ignore my answer and repeat the
question?
Totalitarians also breathe oxygen. Is this claim "damning" to
oxygen-breathers? Will you now fight and oppose anyone who breathes
oxygen, or do you want oxygen-breathers to "escape the real-world
consequences"?
Totalitarians also eat food. Is this claim "damning" to food-eaters?
Etc.
It's been said that the devil can quote Scripture for his own purposes.
Is this "damning" to Scripture?
--Billy
You didn't read me closely enough. As a matter of indisputable history
militant atheism proved itself to be adaptable as a rationale for mass
oppression and political murder. That doesn't mean "atheism" per se
pulled the triggers, but atheists certainly did. Atheism was very
suceptible to being used in that context against religionists in Soviet
Union. (See Volkogonov's biography of Lenin, the war on religion
chapter, and Dr. Richard Pipes' "Russia Under the Bolshevik Regime."
Militant atheism became a tool for oppression by Marxist/Leninists. It
doesn't damn individual atheists but it is a fact in their history.
And also, as a matter of indisputable history, religion has proved
itself to be a rationale for mass oppression and political murder.
Yes, but as D' Souza points out, not on the same scale.
Here's the crucial difference: religion *did* pull the trigger. Atheism
merely lets people be themselves.
That was not true in Russia.
Religion *forbids* people from being
themselves. So when an atheist does evil, it is because the atheist is
an evil person. (Contrary to what you said above, it *does* damn
individual atheists. But only the evil individuals. Everyone else
"escapes the consequences".) But when a religious person does evil, it
is because the religion commanded it.
This is a bit convoluted. But my point is that totalitarianism and
militant atheism mixed turned out to be a vicious combination.
Of course, none of this indicates whether atheism or religion is true
or false. Nobody seems to want to talk about that; only whether they
are good or evil. As if belief dealt with issues of morality rather
than issues of factuality.
My interest here has been mostly to point out that atheism is faith
based--as is religion.
You said that you don't want atheism to "escape the real-world
consequences". What exactly do you mean by that?
The effects of widespread public knowledge of the historic connection
between militant atheism and unprecedented mass carnage in the 20th
Century.
Do you intend to
punish atheists for crimes committed by other atheists long dead?
Of course not, but neither should the history be suppressed.
Punishing the innocent for the crimes of the guilty does seem to be a
common Christian theme. Hopefully, you and your evil brethren will not
escape the real-world consequences.
I'm an agnostic. Agnosticism has no potential for abuse.
--Billy
.
|
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| User: "Mark D J. Mark D" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
01 Dec 2006 01:02:50 AM |
|
|
"Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1164948018.714514.215610@l12g2000cwl.
And also, as a matter of indisputable history, religion has proved
itself to be a rationale for mass oppression and political murder.
Yes, but as D' Souza points out, not on the same scale.
You are either a liar or a fool -- or both -- to refuse to acknowledge that
Stalin had more ways of killing more people more quickly, and more time to
do it in, than did an old-time religious slaughterer like Queen Mary. Give
her the railway, the telegraph and the machine-gun -- and a huge population
to use them on -- and she would have been right up there in Stalin's league.
Funny how you people always want to compare centuries-old Christian
murderers with technologically equipped atheists. Somehow you never mention
that great Christian Hong Xiuquan, and what he did in the C19's 'Taiping
Rebellion'...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Rebellion
M.
Here's the crucial difference: religion *did* pull the trigger. Atheism
merely lets people be themselves.
That was not true in Russia.
You are demented, cupcake.
M,.
.
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| User: "Cazador" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
01 Dec 2006 11:05:44 AM |
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Mark D J. wrote:
"Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1164948018.714514.215610@l12g2000cwl.
And also, as a matter of indisputable history, religion has proved
itself to be a rationale for mass oppression and political murder.
Yes, but as D' Souza points out, not on the same scale.
You are either a liar or a fool -- or both -- to refuse to acknowledge that
Stalin had more ways of killing more people more quickly, and more time to
do it in, than did an old-time religious slaughterer like Queen Mary. Give
her the railway, the telegraph and the machine-gun -- and a huge population
to use them on -- and she would have been right up there in Stalin's league.
Funny how you people always want to compare centuries-old Christian
murderers with technologically equipped atheists. Somehow you never mention
that great Christian Hong Xiuquan, and what he did in the C19's 'Taiping
Rebellion'...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Rebellion
M.
Here's the crucial difference: religion *did* pull the trigger. Atheism
merely lets people be themselves.
That was not true in Russia.
You are demented, cupcake.
M,.
Your anger level is revealing. It interferes with reflection. D' Souza
doesn't address historical "what ifs". I don't either because they lead
nowhere. "What ifs" aren't history. They are speculative, mere
faith-based guessing, like atheism.
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| User: "Mark D J. Mark D" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
01 Dec 2006 12:01:18 PM |
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"Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1164992744.646624.316160@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
Mark D J. wrote:
"Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1164948018.714514.215610@l12g2000cwl.
And also, as a matter of indisputable history, religion has proved
itself to be a rationale for mass oppression and political murder.
Yes, but as D' Souza points out, not on the same scale.
You are either a liar or a fool -- or both -- to refuse to acknowledge
that
Stalin had more ways of killing more people more quickly, and more time
to
do it in, than did an old-time religious slaughterer like Queen Mary.
Give
her the railway, the telegraph and the machine-gun -- and a huge
population
to use them on -- and she would have been right up there in Stalin's
league.
Funny how you people always want to compare centuries-old Christian
murderers with technologically equipped atheists. Somehow you never
mention
that great Christian Hong Xiuquan, and what he did in the C19's 'Taiping
Rebellion'...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Rebellion
M.
Here's the crucial difference: religion *did* pull the trigger.
Atheism
merely lets people be themselves.
That was not true in Russia.
You are demented, cupcake.
M,.
Your anger level is revealing. It interferes with reflection. D' Souza
doesn't address historical "what ifs". I don't either because they lead
nowhere. "What ifs" aren't history. They are speculative, mere
faith-based guessing, like atheism.
LOL! You and the D' Souza clown 'don't address historical "what ifs"'
because they lead to the discovery that all you are doing is smearing
'atheism' for the inevitable fact that modern tyrants come at a historical
stage that gives them access to godless philosophies as well as technology.
"What ifs" aren't history. They are speculative, mere
faith-based guessing, like atheism.
Other things being equal, mass-murderers with access to technology will
always tend to be less 'religious' than those without, because 'religion'
belongs to primitive cultures who don't know enough science to have
developed technology. That's not a 'what if', it's a simple fact -- which
you will of course refuse to understand, because you can't afford to
understand it.
You are without a clue. Fortunately your lies and your stupidity are now
exposed. As is the fact that you just ignored this:
Funny how you people always want to compare centuries-old Christian
murderers with technologically equipped atheists. Somehow you never
mention
that great Christian Hong Xiuquan, and what he did in the C19's 'Taiping
Rebellion'...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Rebellion
..
M.
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| User: "Cazador" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
01 Dec 2006 12:11:05 PM |
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Mark D J. wrote:
"Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1164992744.646624.316160@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
Mark D J. wrote:
"Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1164948018.714514.215610@l12g2000cwl.
And also, as a matter of indisputable history, religion has proved
itself to be a rationale for mass oppression and political murder.
Yes, but as D' Souza points out, not on the same scale.
You are either a liar or a fool -- or both -- to refuse to acknowledge
that
Stalin had more ways of killing more people more quickly, and more time
to
do it in, than did an old-time religious slaughterer like Queen Mary.
Give
her the railway, the telegraph and the machine-gun -- and a huge
population
to use them on -- and she would have been right up there in Stalin's
league.
Funny how you people always want to compare centuries-old Christian
murderers with technologically equipped atheists. Somehow you never
mention
that great Christian Hong Xiuquan, and what he did in the C19's 'Taiping
Rebellion'...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Rebellion
M.
Here's the crucial difference: religion *did* pull the trigger.
Atheism
merely lets people be themselves.
That was not true in Russia.
You are demented, cupcake.
M,.
Your anger level is revealing. It interferes with reflection. D' Souza
doesn't address historical "what ifs". I don't either because they lead
nowhere. "What ifs" aren't history. They are speculative, mere
faith-based guessing, like atheism.
LOL! You and the D' Souza clown 'don't address historical "what ifs"'
because they lead to the discovery that all you are doing is smearing
'atheism' for the inevitable fact that modern tyrants come at a historical
stage that gives them access to godless philosophies as well as technology.
"What ifs" aren't history. They are speculative, mere
faith-based guessing, like atheism.
Other things being equal, mass-murderers with access to technology will
always tend to be less 'religious' than those without, because 'religion'
belongs to primitive cultures who don't know enough science to have
developed technology. That's not a 'what if', it's a simple fact -- which
you will of course refuse to understand, because you can't afford to
understand it.
You are without a clue. Fortunately your lies and your stupidity are now
exposed. As is the fact that you just ignored this:
Funny how you people always want to compare centuries-old Christian
murderers with technologically equipped atheists. Somehow you never
mention
that great Christian Hong Xiuquan, and what he did in the C19's 'Taiping
Rebellion'...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Rebellion
.
M.
I hereby grant you the exclusive monopoly on guessing how history would
have turned out if "things had been different".
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| User: "Mark D J. Mark D" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
01 Dec 2006 01:13:07 PM |
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"Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1164996664.969365.225310@l12g2000cwl.
I hereby grant you the exclusive monopoly on guessing how history would
have turned out if "things had been different".
You are still lying about what I've said. No matter: enough sane people are
reading.
Go back to your comics, 'Cazador', and to your dreams of being 'a brutish
superhuman and fanatical "defender of the faith"'.
http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/c/cazador.htm
M.
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| User: "Cazador" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
01 Dec 2006 03:02:39 PM |
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Mark D J. wrote:
"Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1164996664.969365.225310@l12g2000cwl.
I hereby grant you the exclusive monopoly on guessing how history would
have turned out if "things had been different".
You are still lying about what I've said. No matter: enough sane people are
reading.
Go back to your comics, 'Cazador', and to your dreams of being 'a brutish
superhuman and fanatical "defender of the faith"'.
http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/c/cazador.htm
M.
Actually, Cazador is simply the Spanish translation of my real name.
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| User: "yahu" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
02 Dec 2006 03:25:30 PM |
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On or about Fri 01 Dec 2006 03:02:39p"Cazador"
<coaster132000@yahoo.com> broke wind in
news:1165006959.198158.126140@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: & left
the following laughter in its wake
Mark D J. wrote:
"Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1164996664.969365.225310@l12g2000cwl.
I hereby grant you the exclusive monopoly on guessing how
history would have turned out if "things had been different".
You are still lying about what I've said. No matter: enough sane
people are reading.
Go back to your comics, 'Cazador', and to your dreams of being 'a
brutish superhuman and fanatical "defender of the faith"'.
http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/c/cazador.htm
M.
Actually, Cazador is simply the Spanish translation of my real
name.
Not quite, it stands for predator. However, a synonym would be
Hunter.
Yahu
--
Do not condemn the judgment of another because it differs from
your own.
You may both be wrong.
.
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| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
01 Dec 2006 05:59:13 AM |
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On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 07:02:50 GMT, "Mark D J." <Mark D J.@hoyme.com>
wrote:
"Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1164948018.714514.215610@l12g2000cwl.
And also, as a matter of indisputable history, religion has proved
itself to be a rationale for mass oppression and political murder.
Yes, but as D' Souza points out, not on the same scale.
You are either a liar or a fool -- or both -- to refuse to acknowledge that
Stalin had more ways of killing more people more quickly, and more time to
do it in, than did an old-time religious slaughterer like Queen Mary. Give
her the railway, the telegraph and the machine-gun -- and a huge population
to use them on -- and she would have been right up there in Stalin's league.
Funny how you people always want to compare centuries-old Christian
murderers with technologically equipped atheists. Somehow you never mention
that great Christian Hong Xiuquan, and what he did in the C19's 'Taiping
Rebellion'...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Rebellion
Or black slavery, or the conquest of the Americas.
M.
Here's the crucial difference: religion *did* pull the trigger. Atheism
merely lets people be themselves.
That was not true in Russia.
You are demented, cupcake.
M,.
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