Religions > Atheism > Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"SongBookz" |
| Date: |
21 Nov 2006 10:36:54 PM |
| Object: |
Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
Everyone has endured the accusations of the adherents of the Athiest
religion in these groups, this article is submitted for discussion purposes
since it is topical to those discussions:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20061121/cm_csm/ydsouza
Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history
By Dinesh D'SouzaTue Nov 21, 3:00 AM ET
In recent months, a spate of atheist books have argued that religion
represents, as "End of Faith" author Sam Harris puts it, "the most potent
source of human conflict, past and present."
Columnist Robert Kuttner gives the familiar litany. "The Crusades
slaughtered millions in the name of Jesus. The Inquisition brought the
torture and murder of millions more. After Martin Luther, Christians did
bloody battle with other Christians for another three centuries."
In his bestseller "The God Delusion," Richard Dawkins contends that most of
the world's recent conflicts - in the Middle East, in the Balkans, in
Northern Ireland, in Kashmir, and in Sri Lanka - show the vitality of
religion's murderous impulse.
The problem with this critique is that it exaggerates the crimes attributed
to religion, while ignoring the greater crimes of secular fanaticism. The
best example of religious persecution in America is the Salem witch trials.
How many people were killed in those trials? Thousands? Hundreds? Actually,
fewer than 25. Yet the event still haunts the liberal imagination.
It is strange to witness the passion with which some secular figures rail
against the misdeeds of the Crusaders and Inquisitors more than 500 years
ago. The number sentenced to death by the Spanish Inquisition appears to be
about 10,000. Some historians contend that an additional 100,000 died in
jail due to malnutrition or illness.
These figures are tragic, and of course population levels were much lower at
the time. But even so, they are minuscule compared with the death tolls
produced by the atheist despotisms of the 20th century. In the name of
creating their version of a religion-free utopia, Adolf Hitler, Joseph
Stalin, and Mao Zedong produced the kind of mass slaughter that no
Inquisitor could possibly match. Collectively these atheist tyrants murdered
more than 100 million people.
Moreover, many of the conflicts that are counted as "religious wars" were
not fought over religion. They were mainly fought over rival claims to
territory and power. Can the wars between England and France be called
religious wars because the English were Protestants and the French were
Catholics? Hardly.
The same is true today. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not, at its
core, a religious one. It arises out of a dispute over self-determination
and land. Hamas and the extreme orthodox parties in Israel may advance
theological claims - "God gave us this land" and so forth - but the conflict
would remain essentially the same even without these religious motives.
Ethnic rivalry, not religion, is the source of the tension in Northern
Ireland and the Balkans.
p>Yet today's atheists insist on making religion the culprit. Consider Mr.
Harris's analysis of the conflict in Sri Lanka. "While the motivations of
the Tamil Tigers are not explicitly religious," he informs us, "they are
Hindus who undoubtedly believe many improbable things about the nature of
life and death." In other words, while the Tigers see themselves as
combatants in a secular political struggle, Harris detects a religious
motive because these people happen to be Hindu and surely there must be some
underlying religious craziness that explains their fanaticism.
Harris can go on forever in this vein. Seeking to exonerate secularism and
atheism from the horrors perpetrated in their name, he argues that Stalinism
and Maoism were in reality "little more than a political religion." As for
Nazism, "while the hatred of Jews in Germany expressed itself in a
predominantly secular way, it was a direct inheritance from medieval
Christianity." Indeed, "The holocaust marked the culmination of ... two
thousand years of Christian fulminating against the Jews."
One finds the same inanities in Mr. Dawkins's work. Don't be fooled by this
rhetorical legerdemain. Dawkins and Harris cannot explain why, if Nazism was
directly descended from medieval Christianity, medieval Christianity did not
produce a Hitler. How can a self-proclaimed atheist ideology, advanced by
Hitler as a repudiation of Christianity, be a "culmination" of 2,000 years
of Christianity? Dawkins and Harris are employing a transparent sleight of
hand that holds Christianity responsible for the crimes committed in its
name, while exonerating secularism and atheism for the greater crimes
committed in their name.
Religious fanatics have done things that are impossible to defend, and some
of them, mostly in the Muslim world, are still performing horrors in the
name of their creed. But if religion sometimes disposes people to
self-righteousness and absolutism, it also provides a moral code that
condemns the slaughter of innocents. In particular, the moral teachings of
Jesus provide no support for - indeed they stand as a stern rebuke to - the
historical injustices perpetrated in the name of Christianity.
Atheist hubrisThe crimes of atheism have generally been perpetrated through
a hubristic ideology that sees man, not God, as the creator of values. Using
the latest techniques of science and technology, man seeks to displace God
and create a secular utopia here on earth. Of course if some people - the
Jews, the landowners, the unfit, or the handicapped - have to be eliminated
in order to achieve this utopia, this is a price the atheist tyrants and
their apologists have shown themselves quite willing to pay. Thus they
confirm the truth of Fyodor Dostoyevsky's dictum, "If God is not, everything
is permitted."
Whatever the motives for atheist bloodthirstiness, the indisputable fact is
that all the religions of the world put together have in 2,000 years not
managed to kill as many people as have been killed in the name of atheism in
the past few decades.
It's time to abandon the mindlessly repeated mantra that religious belief
has been the greatest source of human conflict and violence. Atheism, not
religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history.
* Dinesh D'Souza is the Rishwain Fellow at the Hoover Institution. His new
book, "The Enemy at Home: The Cultural Left and Its Responsibility for
9/11," will be published in January.
Copyright © 2006 The Christian Science Monitor
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| User: "Greywolf" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
22 Nov 2006 12:51:15 AM |
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"SongBookz" <NOSPAM@NOWAY.net> wrote in message
news:GtQ8h.13438$9v5.5680@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
Everyone has endured the accusations of the adherents of the Athiest
religion
I think I've *heard* of that religion! Aren't those the people who believe
that 'God' doesn't exist and have a 'sacred', 'original' copy of an ancient
papyrus 'letter' written by the first theist who claimed there was a 'God'
admitting that he had lied through his ***** about the whole thing; that he
was just trying to see how gullible (and stupid) his fellow citizens truly
were when it came to religion? I'd like to join but I can't seem to find
'Athiest Religion' in any of the directories I've searched thus far -- or on
the internet. Could you post a link to a website where I can find out more
about this fascinating religion? I've tried contacting some 'Atheists', but
they assured me that 'Atheism' is certainly *not* a religion -- not by any
stretch of the imagination. And they were quite adamant about it too!
Thanks in advance.
Greywolf
<snip>
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
22 Nov 2006 03:51:04 AM |
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"SongBookz" <NOSPAM@NOWAY.net> wrote in message
news:GtQ8h.13438$9v5.5680@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
Everyone has endured the accusations of the adherents of the Athiest
religion in these groups, this article is submitted for discussion
purposes since it is topical to those discussions:
And you're trolling alt.atheism because.................?
Fucking hypocrite.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
Atheist ***** Extraordinaire
#1557
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| User: "SongBookz" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
22 Nov 2006 09:38:20 AM |
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"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:4siksdFvh6v7U1@mid.individual.net...
"SongBookz" <NOSPAM@NOWAY.net> wrote in message
news:GtQ8h.13438$9v5.5680@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
Everyone has endured the accusations of the adherents of the Athiest
religion in these groups, this article is submitted for discussion
purposes since it is topical to those discussions:
And you're trolling alt.atheism because.................?
One of your fellow atheist religionists stated (to paraphrase) "if it has
"atheist in the title, it belongs in alt.atheism," (referring back to a
previous thread that I did remove alt.atheism from and one of the members of
your religious group added back). And this article was particularly
appropriate because it mirrors the accusations frequently posted into the
religious groups by atheist evangelists.
And you troll the religious groups because................?
And before you say anything, all other proofs aside, the very fact that you
feel need to come to the religious groups to convert all us 'poor, ignorant
souls' to atheism, demonstrates that it is indeed a religion - a religion
that chooses to declare itself to not be a religion as a recruiting tool in
the same way the Church of Christ attempts to convince us it's not a
denomination, because such statements make for better recruiting of
proselytes.
--
Terrell D Lewis
http://www.songbookz.com
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
22 Nov 2006 09:45:53 AM |
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"SongBookz" <NOSPAM@NOWAY.net> wrote in message
news:M9_8h.9045$6t.486@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:4siksdFvh6v7U1@mid.individual.net...
"SongBookz" <NOSPAM@NOWAY.net> wrote in message
news:GtQ8h.13438$9v5.5680@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
Everyone has endured the accusations of the adherents of the Athiest
religion in these groups, this article is submitted for discussion
purposes since it is topical to those discussions:
And you're trolling alt.atheism because.................?
One of your fellow atheist religionists stated (to paraphrase) "if it has
"atheist in the title, it belongs in alt.atheism," (referring back to a
previous thread that I did remove alt.atheism from and one of the members
of your religious group added back).
As long as you admit you're a hypcrite.
<bulllshit about atheists snipped>
And you troll the religious groups because................?
Just the one to make wiseass cracks to one individual. What's it to you
anyway? Don't like it? Go ahead and killfile me.
<remaining ***** deleted unread>
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
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| User: "SongBookz" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
22 Nov 2006 09:56:37 AM |
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"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:4sj9d4Fvju6vU1@mid.individual.net...
"SongBookz" <NOSPAM@NOWAY.net> wrote in message
news:M9_8h.9045$6t.486@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:4siksdFvh6v7U1@mid.individual.net...
"SongBookz" <NOSPAM@NOWAY.net> wrote in message
news:GtQ8h.13438$9v5.5680@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
Everyone has endured the accusations of the adherents of the Athiest
religion in these groups, this article is submitted for discussion
purposes since it is topical to those discussions:
And you're trolling alt.atheism because.................?
One of your fellow atheist religionists stated (to paraphrase) "if it has
"atheist in the title, it belongs in alt.atheism," (referring back to a
previous thread that I did remove alt.atheism from and one of the members
of your religious group added back).
As long as you admit you're a hypcrite.
<bulllshit about atheists snipped>
And you troll the religious groups because................?
Just the one to make wiseass cracks to one individual. What's it to you
anyway? Don't like it? Go ahead and killfile me.
What is it to me?
Despite the fact that I have my own problems with this individual, and
despite the fact that he has attacked me on occasion, and despite the fact
we often disagree vehemently, he is, or claims to be, a brother in Christ.
Which makes him family. Which makes your attacks, as an outsider, something
that those within the family shouldn't tolerate.
--
Terrell D Lewis
http://www.songbookz.com
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| User: "The Chief Instigator" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
22 Nov 2006 10:11:54 AM |
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"SongBookz" <NOSPAM@NOWAY.net> writes:
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:4sj9d4Fvju6vU1@mid.individual.net...
"SongBookz" <NOSPAM@NOWAY.net> wrote in message
news:M9_8h.9045$6t.486@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:4siksdFvh6v7U1@mid.individual.net...
"SongBookz" <NOSPAM@NOWAY.net> wrote in message
news:GtQ8h.13438$9v5.5680@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
Everyone has endured the accusations of the adherents of the Athiest
religion in these groups, this article is submitted for discussion
purposes since it is topical to those discussions:
And you're trolling alt.atheism because.................?
One of your fellow atheist religionists stated (to paraphrase) "if it has
"atheist in the title, it belongs in alt.atheism," (referring back to a
previous thread that I did remove alt.atheism from and one of the members
of your religious group added back).
As long as you admit you're a hypcrite.
<bulllshit about atheists snipped>
And you troll the religious groups because................?
Just the one to make wiseass cracks to one individual. What's it to you
anyway? Don't like it? Go ahead and killfile me.
What is it to me?
It would help if you had any idea.
Despite the fact that I have my own problems with this individual, and
despite the fact that he has attacked me on occasion, and despite the fact
we often disagree vehemently, he is, or claims to be, a brother in Christ.
Which makes him family. Which makes your attacks, as an outsider, something
that those within the family shouldn't tolerate.
So what's keeping you from excluding alt.atheism from your headers? (Aside
from your imagined superiority over those of us who don't worship your dead
prophet on a stick.)
--
Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston, Texas
chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2006-07 Houston Aeros)
LAST GAME: San Antonio 4, Houston 2 (November 21)
NEXT GAME: Friday, November 24 vs. San Antonio, 7:35
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
22 Nov 2006 10:35:19 AM |
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"SongBookz" <NOSPAM@NOWAY.net> wrote in message
news:Vq_8h.9049$6t.4819@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:4sj9d4Fvju6vU1@mid.individual.net...
"SongBookz" <NOSPAM@NOWAY.net> wrote in message
news:M9_8h.9045$6t.486@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:4siksdFvh6v7U1@mid.individual.net...
"SongBookz" <NOSPAM@NOWAY.net> wrote in message
news:GtQ8h.13438$9v5.5680@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
Everyone has endured the accusations of the adherents of the Athiest
religion in these groups, this article is submitted for discussion
purposes since it is topical to those discussions:
And you're trolling alt.atheism because.................?
One of your fellow atheist religionists stated (to paraphrase) "if it
has "atheist in the title, it belongs in alt.atheism," (referring back
to a previous thread that I did remove alt.atheism from and one of the
members of your religious group added back).
As long as you admit you're a hypcrite.
<bulllshit about atheists snipped>
And you troll the religious groups because................?
Just the one to make wiseass cracks to one individual. What's it to you
anyway? Don't like it? Go ahead and killfile me.
What is it to me?
Despite the fact that I have my own problems with this individual, and
despite the fact that he has attacked me on occasion, and despite the fact
we often disagree vehemently, he is, or claims to be, a brother in Christ.
Which makes him family. Which makes your attacks, as an outsider,
something that those within the family shouldn't tolerate.
Whatever - Killfile me then.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
.
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| User: "SongBookz" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
22 Nov 2006 10:45:53 AM |
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"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:4sjc9rFvbfmnU1@mid.individual.net...
"SongBookz" <NOSPAM@NOWAY.net> wrote in message
news:Vq_8h.9049$6t.4819@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:4sj9d4Fvju6vU1@mid.individual.net...
"SongBookz" <NOSPAM@NOWAY.net> wrote in message
news:M9_8h.9045$6t.486@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:4siksdFvh6v7U1@mid.individual.net...
"SongBookz" <NOSPAM@NOWAY.net> wrote in message
news:GtQ8h.13438$9v5.5680@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
Everyone has endured the accusations of the adherents of the Athiest
religion in these groups, this article is submitted for discussion
purposes since it is topical to those discussions:
And you're trolling alt.atheism because.................?
One of your fellow atheist religionists stated (to paraphrase) "if it
has "atheist in the title, it belongs in alt.atheism," (referring back
to a previous thread that I did remove alt.atheism from and one of the
members of your religious group added back).
As long as you admit you're a hypcrite.
<bulllshit about atheists snipped>
And you troll the religious groups because................?
Just the one to make wiseass cracks to one individual. What's it to you
anyway? Don't like it? Go ahead and killfile me.
What is it to me?
Despite the fact that I have my own problems with this individual, and
despite the fact that he has attacked me on occasion, and despite the
fact we often disagree vehemently, he is, or claims to be, a brother in
Christ. Which makes him family. Which makes your attacks, as an
outsider, something that those within the family shouldn't tolerate.
Whatever - Killfile me then.
I suppose you would like that, then you could attack my brothers and sisters
with impunity - but it ain't gonna happen.
--
Terrell D Lewis
http://www.songbookz.com
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
22 Nov 2006 11:03:57 AM |
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"SongBookz" <NOSPAM@NOWAY.net> wrote in message
news:59%8h.9063$6t.1631@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:4sjc9rFvbfmnU1@mid.individual.net...
"SongBookz" <NOSPAM@NOWAY.net> wrote in message
snip
Despite the fact that I have my own problems with this individual, and
despite the fact that he has attacked me on occasion, and despite the
fact we often disagree vehemently, he is, or claims to be, a brother in
Christ. Which makes him family. Which makes your attacks, as an
outsider, something that those within the family shouldn't tolerate.
Whatever - Killfile me then.
I suppose you would like that, then you could attack my brothers and
sisters with impunity - but it ain't gonna happen.
Oh really? What are you going to do about it? Other than ***** and moan
like a little baby, that is.
Well, here's what I'm going to do - Since I've grown tired of your whining,
boring *****, I'm going to killfile you.
Have a nice life - Not that I give a *****. PLONK!
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
22 Nov 2006 05:40:57 PM |
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On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 16:45:53 GMT, "SongBookz" <NOSPAM@NOWAY.net>
wrote:
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:4sjc9rFvbfmnU1@mid.individual.net...
"SongBookz" <NOSPAM@NOWAY.net> wrote in message
news:Vq_8h.9049$6t.4819@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:4sj9d4Fvju6vU1@mid.individual.net...
"SongBookz" <NOSPAM@NOWAY.net> wrote in message
news:M9_8h.9045$6t.486@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:4siksdFvh6v7U1@mid.individual.net...
"SongBookz" <NOSPAM@NOWAY.net> wrote in message
news:GtQ8h.13438$9v5.5680@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
Everyone has endured the accusations of the adherents of the Athiest
religion in these groups, this article is submitted for discussion
purposes since it is topical to those discussions:
And you're trolling alt.atheism because.................?
One of your fellow atheist religionists stated (to paraphrase) "if it
has "atheist in the title, it belongs in alt.atheism," (referring back
to a previous thread that I did remove alt.atheism from and one of the
members of your religious group added back).
As long as you admit you're a hypcrite.
<bulllshit about atheists snipped>
And you troll the religious groups because................?
Just the one to make wiseass cracks to one individual. What's it to you
anyway? Don't like it? Go ahead and killfile me.
What is it to me?
Despite the fact that I have my own problems with this individual, and
despite the fact that he has attacked me on occasion, and despite the
fact we often disagree vehemently, he is, or claims to be, a brother in
Christ. Which makes him family. Which makes your attacks, as an
outsider, something that those within the family shouldn't tolerate.
Whatever - Killfile me then.
I suppose you would like that, then you could attack my brothers and sisters
with impunity
I can do that whether you killfile me or not, *****-for-brains. Stay
the hell out of alt.atheism and it won't happen.
- but it ain't gonna happen.
Then deal. Grow up and stop whining when you get your ***** smacked for
shitting on our carpet. And stop lying about people who don't share
your silly beliefs.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the massmurders of history |
26 Nov 2006 12:45:28 PM |
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On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 15:56:37 +0000, SongBookz wrote:
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:4sj9d4Fvju6vU1@mid.individual.net...
"SongBookz" <NOSPAM@NOWAY.net> wrote in message
news:M9_8h.9045$6t.486@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:4siksdFvh6v7U1@mid.individual.net...
"SongBookz" <NOSPAM@NOWAY.net> wrote in message
news:GtQ8h.13438$9v5.5680@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
Everyone has endured the accusations of the adherents of the Athiest
religion in these groups, this article is submitted for discussion
purposes since it is topical to those discussions:
And you're trolling alt.atheism because.................?
One of your fellow atheist religionists stated (to paraphrase) "if it has
"atheist in the title, it belongs in alt.atheism," (referring back to a
previous thread that I did remove alt.atheism from and one of the members
of your religious group added back).
As long as you admit you're a hypcrite.
<bulllshit about atheists snipped>
And you troll the religious groups because................?
Just the one to make wiseass cracks to one individual. What's it to you
anyway? Don't like it? Go ahead and killfile me.
What is it to me?
Despite the fact that I have my own problems with this individual, and
despite the fact that he has attacked me on occasion, and despite the fact
we often disagree vehemently, he is, or claims to be, a brother in Christ.
Which makes him family. Which makes your attacks, as an outsider, something
that those within the family shouldn't tolerate.
Interesting. Totally contrary to the teachings of that New Testament thing
but interesting...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
------------------------------------------------------------
"You believe in a book that has talking animals, wizards,
witches, demons, sticks turning into snakes, food falling
from the sky, people walking on water, and all sorts of magical,
absurd and primitive stories, and you say that *we* are the
ones that need help?" -Jon Stoll
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| User: "Frank Mayhar" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the massmurders of history |
22 Nov 2006 11:02:27 AM |
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On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 15:56:37 +0000, SongBookz wrote:
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:4sj9d4Fvju6vU1@mid.individual.net...
"SongBookz" <NOSPAM@NOWAY.net> wrote in message
news:M9_8h.9045$6t.486@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:4siksdFvh6v7U1@mid.individual.net...
"SongBookz" <NOSPAM@NOWAY.net> wrote in message
news:GtQ8h.13438$9v5.5680@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
Everyone has endured the accusations of the adherents of the Athiest
religion in these groups, this article is submitted for discussion
purposes since it is topical to those discussions:
And you're trolling alt.atheism because.................?
One of your fellow atheist religionists stated (to paraphrase) "if it has
"atheist in the title, it belongs in alt.atheism," (referring back to a
previous thread that I did remove alt.atheism from and one of the members
of your religious group added back).
As long as you admit you're a hypcrite.
<bulllshit about atheists snipped>
And you troll the religious groups because................?
Just the one to make wiseass cracks to one individual. What's it to you
anyway? Don't like it? Go ahead and killfile me.
What is it to me?
Despite the fact that I have my own problems with this individual, and
despite the fact that he has attacked me on occasion, and despite the fact
we often disagree vehemently, he is, or claims to be, a brother in Christ.
Which makes him family. Which makes your attacks, as an outsider, something
that those within the family shouldn't tolerate.
Tough *****. You don't want outside attacks, keep your dirty laundry to
yourself.
Seems like I said something like this before, didn't I?
Now ***** back to your own group and take alt.atheism off the
Newsgroups line or stop fucking complaining that you're being "attacked."
When you post here, we get to call you an idiot. Deal with it.
--
Frank Mayhar frank@exit.com http://www.exit.com/
Exit Consulting http://www.gpsclock.com/
http://www.exit.com/blog/frank/
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
23 Nov 2006 01:40:16 AM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet SongBookz
(NOSPAM@NOWAY.net) made the light shine upon us with this:
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:4sj9d4Fvju6vU1@mid.individual.net...
"SongBookz" <NOSPAM@NOWAY.net> wrote in message
news:M9_8h.9045$6t.486@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:4siksdFvh6v7U1@mid.individual.net...
"SongBookz" <NOSPAM@NOWAY.net> wrote in message
news:GtQ8h.13438$9v5.5680@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
Everyone has endured the accusations of the adherents of the
Athiest religion in these groups, this article is submitted for
discussion purposes since it is topical to those discussions:
And you're trolling alt.atheism because.................?
One of your fellow atheist religionists stated (to paraphrase) "if
it has "atheist in the title, it belongs in alt.atheism," (referring
back to a previous thread that I did remove alt.atheism from and one
of the members of your religious group added back).
As long as you admit you're a hypcrite.
<bulllshit about atheists snipped>
And you troll the religious groups because................?
Just the one to make wiseass cracks to one individual. What's it to
you anyway? Don't like it? Go ahead and killfile me.
What is it to me?
Despite the fact that I have my own problems with this individual, and
despite the fact that he has attacked me on occasion, and despite the
fact we often disagree vehemently, he is, or claims to be, a brother
in Christ. Which makes him family. Which makes your attacks, as an
outsider, something that those within the family shouldn't tolerate.
Would this be one of them thar Ozark families, Terell?
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Proud member of Earthquack's "Ghost fulla holes" convict page
.
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| User: "Mark D J. Mark D" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
22 Nov 2006 10:20:23 AM |
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"SongBookz" <NOSPAM@NOWAY.net> wrote in message news:M9_8h.
And you're trolling alt.atheism because.................?
One of your fellow atheist religionists
Trolling...
stated (to paraphrase) "if it has "atheist in the title, it belongs in
alt.atheism," (referring back to a previous thread that I did remove
alt.atheism from and one of the members of your religious group
Trolling...
added back). And this article was particularly appropriate because it
mirrors the accusations frequently posted into the religious groups by
atheist evangelists
Trolling...
And before you say anything, all other proofs aside, the very fact that
you feel need to come to the religious groups to convert all us 'poor,
ignorant souls' to atheism, demonstrates that it is indeed a religion - a
religion that chooses to declare itself to not be a religion as a
recruiting tool in the same way the Church of Christ attempts to convince
us it's not a denomination, because such statements make for better
recruiting of proselytes.
Trolling...
Why feed the troll -- when you can just killfile it...?
M.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the massmurders of history |
26 Nov 2006 12:44:32 PM |
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On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 15:38:20 +0000, SongBookz wrote:
And you troll the religious groups because................?
Because we don't.
Sorry but I've actually dug through threads all the way back to their
source and in more cases than not, it's the theists that start the cross
posting.
You look over threads started by regulars in this ng, you find alt.atheism
is the sole ng in the headers more often than not.
--
Mark K. Bilbo
------------------------------------------------------------
"Christians, it is needless to say, utterly detest each other.
They slander each other constantly with the vilest forms of
abuse and cannot come to any sort of agreement in their
teachings. Each sect brands its own, fills the head of its
own with deceitful nonsense, and makes perfect little pigs
of those it wins over to its side." -Celsus (2nd century C.E.)
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| User: "yahu" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
25 Nov 2006 09:05:26 AM |
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On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 15:38:20 GMT"SongBookz" <NOSPAM@NOWAY.net> lost the
following message with
news:M9_8h.9045$6t.486@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com:
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:4siksdFvh6v7U1@mid.individual.net...
"SongBookz" <NOSPAM@NOWAY.net> wrote in message
news:GtQ8h.13438$9v5.5680@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
Everyone has endured the accusations of the adherents of the Athiest
religion in these groups, this article is submitted for discussion
purposes since it is topical to those discussions:
And you're trolling alt.atheism because.................?
One of your fellow atheist religionists stated (to paraphrase) "if it
has "atheist in the title, it belongs in alt.atheism," (referring back
to a previous thread that I did remove alt.atheism from and one of the
members of your religious group added back). And this article was
particularly appropriate because it mirrors the accusations frequently
posted into the religious groups by atheist evangelists.
If you're going to post nonsense about atheists, and you do, why would you
want to hide it from the atheist newsgroup? And even though you know
better, and continue to pretend to know that atheism is a religion, you
only fool yourself and those that are too ignorant to understand that just
as you are an atheist to & Zeus the Greek pantheon, atheists at large
simply include your pantheon in their lack of belief in a various odd gods
of humanity.
And you troll the religious groups because................?
As best I recall, you posted this to the atheist newsgroup and now I
suspect you wish you had not.
And before you say anything, all other proofs aside, the very fact
that you feel need to come to the religious groups to convert all us
What need, convert who? Myself I observed the xian newsgroups is a source
of information on bizarre psychology.
'poor, ignorant souls' to atheism, demonstrates that it is indeed a
Who has tried to convert you to atheism? I believe you're flat out lying.
religion - a religion that chooses to declare itself to not be a
religion as a recruiting tool in the same way the Church of Christ
It's only a religion in the mind of people like yourself, they cannot
accept the fact that there are people that walk this earth and are decent
and yet have no god nor need a god to control their actions or morals.
It's rather pathetic that you must continue to attempt to accuse atheism of
being the same as your mythology, a hollow religion.
attempts to convince us it's not a denomination, because such
statements make for better recruiting of proselytes.
Frankly, I suspect the majority of the atheists I have met around the world
would not want your company on a day-to-day basis. After all, you're
incapable of questioning your gods motives, you're incapable of questioning
why people you know personally are so genetically screwed up, as to be
bizarre, is to be xian, or some other follower of one of the revealed
desert gods. It's rather sad that they myth of love is in reality based on
violence to those that do not accept a particular mythology, or know more
about that mythology and the followers do.
Now other than attempting to pretend that the same worn-out argumentation
that has been rebutted over the years is all of a sudden brand-new & valid
because you are using it, do you have anything to say on the subject or are
you going to stand around pointing your finger and flapping your gums or
you pretend that those that lack the things that make you sick are in fact,
not your shortcomings but theirs?
Yahu
--
DAMN, v. A word formerly much used by the Paphlagonians, the
meaning of which is lost. By the learned Dr. Dolabelly Gak it
is believed to have been a term of satisfaction, implying the
highest possible degree of mental tranquillity. Professor
Groke, on the contrary, thinks it expressed an emotion of
tumultuous delight, because it so frequently occurs in
combination with the word jod or god, meaning "joy." It
would be with great diffidence that I should advance an
opinion conflicting with that of either of these formidable
authorities.
.
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| User: "Cazador" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
25 Nov 2006 07:33:46 PM |
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yahu wrote:
On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 15:38:20 GMT"SongBookz" <NOSPAM@NOWAY.net> lost the
following message with
news:M9_8h.9045$6t.486@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com:
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:4siksdFvh6v7U1@mid.individual.net...
"SongBookz" <NOSPAM@NOWAY.net> wrote in message
news:GtQ8h.13438$9v5.5680@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
Everyone has endured the accusations of the adherents of the Athiest
religion in these groups, this article is submitted for discussion
purposes since it is topical to those discussions:
And you're trolling alt.atheism because.................?
Probably because you added it to the thread.
One of your fellow atheist religionists stated (to paraphrase) "if it
has "atheist in the title, it belongs in alt.atheism," (referring back
to a previous thread that I did remove alt.atheism from and one of the
members of your religious group added back). And this article was
particularly appropriate because it mirrors the accusations frequently
posted into the religious groups by atheist evangelists.
"Atheist evangelists," an interesting and on-point term.
If you're going to post nonsense about atheists, and you do, why would you
want to hide it from the atheist newsgroup? And even though you know
better, and continue to pretend to know that atheism is a religion, you
only fool yourself and those that are too ignorant to understand that just
as you are an atheist to & Zeus the Greek pantheon, atheists at large
simply include your pantheon in their lack of belief in a various odd gods
of humanity.
And you troll the religious groups because................?
As best I recall, you posted this to the atheist newsgroup and now I
suspect you wish you had not.
Concentrate, yahu, both Christianity and atheism involve leaps of
faith. Christianity because it is a "revealed" religion which demands
belief in God by its adherents, and atheism because it demands belief
in the *non-existence* of God. Both of these positions go beyond what
we humans "know" from experience in this life. Suspension of the
rational process and proceding on faith is required to comply with
doctrine in each case. Therefore in the logical sense they are very
similar and I think religious in nature. Religions are belief systems.
Agnosticism, however. . . . . . . .but then you aren't interested in
agnosticism, are you? No, I don't think so. It's not consistent with
the darkness found in your sig.
And before you say anything, all other proofs aside, the very fact
that you feel need to come to the religious groups to convert all us
What need, convert who? Myself I observed the xian newsgroups is a source
of information on bizarre psychology.
You come to troll and insult. As I am not a believer I suppose I too am
a troll. The difference is that I try not to use the opportunity to
deliver insults based on the most simplistic philosophical apparatus
imaginable, that of militant atheism.
'poor, ignorant souls' to atheism, demonstrates that it is indeed a
Who has tried to convert you to atheism? I believe you're flat out lying.
The atheist believers I have met here so far have all been coarse and
abusive, fond of dark imagery. One wonders why this doctrine seems
comfortable to people with those characteristics. Could it be that they
love the doctrine for the wrong reasons, i.e., that they foolishly
believe it releases them from constraints that chafe, the invisible
moral and ethical constraints which come with Christian civilization?
Or which are supposed to come with it. . . . .?
religion - a religion that chooses to declare itself to not be a
religion as a recruiting tool in the same way the Church of Christ
It's only a religion in the mind of people like yourself, they cannot
accept the fact that there are people that walk this earth and are decent
and yet have no god nor need a god to control their actions or morals.
You speak of decency? One must earn the right, sir. It isn't inborn.
It's rather pathetic that you must continue to attempt to accuse atheism of
being the same as your mythology, a hollow religion.
Do you deny your fundamental leap of faith? Perhaps you would like to
prove here and now that there is no God or future life?
attempts to convince us it's not a denomination, because such
statements make for better recruiting of proselytes.
If it is no "denomination," why does it have a militant usenet news
group? Benign, private atheism has no reason for militance. It is
content to reside quietly within the individual mind.
Frankly, I suspect the majority of the atheists I have met around the world
would not want your company on a day-to-day basis. After all, you're
incapable of questioning your gods motives, you're incapable of questioning
why people you know personally are so genetically screwed up, as to be
bizarre, is to be xian, or some other follower of one of the revealed
desert gods. It's rather sad that they myth of love is in reality based on
violence to those that do not accept a particular mythology, or know more
about that mythology and the followers do.
Vile, sir. If you wish not to have the company of religionists why do
you persist in posting here? They are not likely to pursue you into
your dark spaces.
Now other than attempting to pretend that the same worn-out argumentation
that has been rebutted over the years is all of a sudden brand-new & valid
because you are using it, do you have anything to say on the subject or are
you going to stand around pointing your finger and flapping your gums or
you pretend that those that lack the things that make you sick are in fact,
not your shortcomings but theirs?
Equally vile, sir. I have yet to see here an athestic argument which
adddressed the logical and experiential differences between it and
Christianity. You and your cohorts have always relied on naught but
vitreol. It's shameful behavior.
.
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| User: "Voracious" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murdersof history |
26 Nov 2006 09:16:07 AM |
|
|
Cazador wrote:
yahu wrote:
On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 15:38:20 GMT"SongBookz" <NOSPAM@NOWAY.net> lost the
following message with
news:M9_8h.9045$6t.486@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com:
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:4siksdFvh6v7U1@mid.individual.net...
"SongBookz" <NOSPAM@NOWAY.net> wrote in message
news:GtQ8h.13438$9v5.5680@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
Everyone has endured the accusations of the adherents of the Athiest
religion in these groups, this article is submitted for discussion
purposes since it is topical to those discussions:
And you're trolling alt.atheism because.................?
Probably because you added it to the thread.
One of your fellow atheist religionists stated (to paraphrase) "if it
has "atheist in the title, it belongs in alt.atheism," (referring back
to a previous thread that I did remove alt.atheism from and one of the
members of your religious group added back). And this article was
particularly appropriate because it mirrors the accusations frequently
posted into the religious groups by atheist evangelists.
"Atheist evangelists," an interesting and on-point term.
If you're going to post nonsense about atheists, and you do, why would you
want to hide it from the atheist newsgroup? And even though you know
better, and continue to pretend to know that atheism is a religion, you
only fool yourself and those that are too ignorant to understand that just
as you are an atheist to & Zeus the Greek pantheon, atheists at large
simply include your pantheon in their lack of belief in a various odd gods
of humanity.
And you troll the religious groups because................?
As best I recall, you posted this to the atheist newsgroup and now I
suspect you wish you had not.
Concentrate, yahu, both Christianity and atheism involve leaps of
faith. Christianity because it is a "revealed" religion which demands
belief in God by its adherents, and atheism because it demands belief
in the *non-existence* of God. Both of these positions go beyond what
we humans "know" from experience in this life. Suspension of the
rational process and proceding on faith is required to comply with
doctrine in each case. Therefore in the logical sense they are very
similar and I think religious in nature. Religions are belief systems.
Agnosticism, however. . . . . . . .but then you aren't interested in
agnosticism, are you? No, I don't think so. It's not consistent with
the darkness found in your sig.
Atheism *demands* no such thing as belief in the non-existence of
god(s). Atheism is a state of being that realizes the nonsense of theism!
Voracious
.
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| User: "yahu" |
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| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
26 Nov 2006 07:56:28 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 01:33:46 GMT"Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com> lost
the following message with
news:1164504826.819819.61250@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
yahu wrote:
On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 15:38:20 GMT"SongBookz" <NOSPAM@NOWAY.net> lost
the following message with
news:M9_8h.9045$6t.486@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com:
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:4siksdFvh6v7U1@mid.individual.net...
"SongBookz" <NOSPAM@NOWAY.net> wrote in message
news:GtQ8h.13438$9v5.5680@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
Everyone has endured the accusations of the adherents of the
Athiest religion in these groups, this article is submitted for
discussion purposes since it is topical to those discussions:
And you're trolling alt.atheism because.................?
Probably because you added it to the thread.
In reality, even though that may fool you, the lady did not add it to the
thread. The original poster is songbookz, with a Z. Google can confirm
that for you.
One of your fellow atheist religionists stated (to paraphrase) "if
it has "atheist in the title, it belongs in alt.atheism,"
(referring back to a previous thread that I did remove alt.atheism
from and one of the members of your religious group added back).
And this article was particularly appropriate because it mirrors
the accusations frequently posted into the religious groups by
atheist evangelists.
"Atheist evangelists," an interesting and on-point term.
Only if you're not able to think for yourself. But then, a lot of people
make the mistake of thinking the popular definition is the only possible
definition of a word & never bother to look at the history of that word.
If you're going to post nonsense about atheists, and you do, why
would you want to hide it from the atheist newsgroup? And even
though you know better, and continue to pretend to know that atheism
is a religion, you only fool yourself and those that are too ignorant
to understand that just as you are an atheist to & Zeus the Greek
pantheon, atheists at large simply include your pantheon in their
lack of belief in a various odd gods of humanity.
And you troll the religious groups because................?
As best I recall, you posted this to the atheist newsgroup and now I
suspect you wish you had not.
Concentrate, yahu, both Christianity and atheism involve leaps of
I have considered the claims for all the mythologies of the world for a
rather large number of years now, and I can find no redeeming factors are
reasons to believe in what is not required for the universe to exist. Or
are you saying, the universe is a figment of our imagination?
faith. Christianity because it is a "revealed" religion which demands
belief in God by its adherents, and atheism because it demands belief
I have been an atheist for over 60 years, and I have yet to encounter any
demands made upon me by my atheism. It does not require me to use my mind
& consider the evidence claimed by various
theologies/mythologies/pathologies.
It does not require me to give up my spine to become one of the herd. It
does not require me to do anything, not even consider the evidence for or
against any god claims. There's a fair chance that I have studied the
claims for gods far in excess of any xian or any other mythological
follower. This does not make me an expert on the gods, for they apparently
do not exist and how can be one be an expert on the nonexistent.
in the *non-existence* of God. Both of these positions go beyond what
we humans "know" from experience in this life. Suspension of the
Humans know a lot more than you think they do. As an example, no one has
to tell you do not step in front of a speeding bullet, or a speeding 18
wheel truck that is out of control. Your body does a fine job of telling
you don't do this.
In the first place you're making a presumption that is not necessarily
correct, that the question of gods is even worthy of consideration. Having
read various claims around the world for the gods of humanity, there's no
reason to assume the question is worth asking. It, by the way, does not
state there is no god. Various atheists
hold that position, and depending on the way a god is claimed to function
or exist, various gods can be disproven rather easily. The leader of that
particular pack are the revealed gods of the desert. The followers of
those particular guides make claims in about half of those guys that can be
tested and found to be false. Various other gods are harder to get a
handle on, especially though some eager to the Hindu or first nations of
North America. The revealed gods of the desert depends on their appeal to
the most base of human emotions. Self-centered greed, desire for a
continued life even though they may not have earned one, superiority over
others, the list is rather long. They are the most self-centered of all
the mythologies, and the most transparent. Especially when you consider
that those gods were so puny in the beginning that they required followers
that they had to bribe.
rational process and proceding on faith is required to comply with
doctrine in each case. Therefore in the logical sense they are very
similar and I think religious in nature. Religions are belief systems.
You're free to hold any thoughts you want, that does not make them reality
for anybody else.
Agnosticism, however. . . . . . . .but then you aren't interested in
agnosticism, are you? No, I don't think so. It's not consistent with
the darkness found in your sig.
Agnosticism has a problem of its own, it presupposes a god exists or else
the question becomes meaningless. Atheism just simply cuts that out, if
you want to consider the possibility of a god, there's only one they can
make the grade.
Even it would not be considered worthy of worship by a thinking person or
it'd be totally unaware of any worship. That's the god of deism. But then,
that god does not give a damn about particular individuals of the human
race and therefore does not appeal to stark naked greed found in humanity,
it has no emotional appeal and no emotional hook.
And before you say anything, all other proofs aside, the very fact
that you feel need to come to the religious groups to convert all
us
What need, convert who? Myself I observed the xian newsgroups is a
source of information on bizarre psychology.
You come to troll and insult. As I am not a believer I suppose I too
Troll, not at all. I am perfectly willing & able to defend my positions
when the gods are concerned. Who is incapable of defending their positions
when their gods are involved happens to be, I do hope you are sitting down
for this, followers of the revealed gods of the desert. Perchance, you
would like to discuss the mythology from the beginning and why it is as
false as a 101 peso dollar bill. Then again, maybe you do not have that
ability because you have yet to study and pay attention to the claims
versus the evidence.
am a troll. The difference is that I try not to use the opportunity to
You may be a troll, I do not know. I have made no hook for you in
particular and yet here you are bobbing my cork. Of course, in your
previous endeavors I never saw anything worthwhile in a bomb or paying
attention to. This may be because you have not said anything of interest
to me.
deliver insults based on the most simplistic philosophical apparatus
imaginable, that of militant atheism.
Atheism is not a philosophy in as much as I have been led to understand
that particular word. It is not a worldview, nor as a basis to build one's
life upon. In other words, it appears you are simply babbling in
attempting to paint others with a brush that is not theirs. It thing I
have noticed since the late 90s on USENET, especially when it involves
people who think they know more about what being an atheist is in an
atheist does himself. This is not novel especially interesting.
'poor, ignorant souls' to atheism, demonstrates that it is indeed a
Who has tried to convert you to atheism? I believe you're flat out
lying.
The atheist believers I have met here so far have all been coarse and
abusive, fond of dark imagery. One wonders why this doctrine seems
Maybe that's because the way they are treated in their own newsgroup by
xians? Maybe, just maybe, if xians were to pay attention to what is said
versus what they think is supposed to have been said, that could change.
However, inasmuch as I do not look good in either blue or purple I will not
hold my breath until that happens.
comfortable to people with those characteristics. Could it be that
they love the doctrine for the wrong reasons, i.e., that they
foolishly believe it releases them from constraints that chafe, the
Can't say as how I have been released from any constraints that assist in
my getting along in being a contributing member of society, whatever
society I happen to find myself in at the time. I have no concerns about
offending an invisible entity that will slap my pee pee if I don't pretend
to be willing to kiss its *****. I find more pleasure in meeting people
without the artificial constraints of xianity in particular. I have
noticed over the years that if I treat people the way they treat others,
I'm normally accused of being anti-xian. I have noticed if I did not give
xianity any particular excessive credit for the sensibilities of the
believers, it gives them a fit. I cannot give credit where credit is not
due as far as I'm concerned, and none of the revealed gods of the desert
are entitled to any flattery nor are their followers entitled to be treated
as sane or sensible when they invoke those gods.
invisible moral and ethical constraints which come with Christian
civilization? Or which are supposed to come with it. . . . .?
& exactly which all is moral and ethical constraints which are found only
in xianity? I have yet to find one unique epic or moral I can only be
associated with the xianity. Maybe you know of one that I might have
missed, as mythes go, it is not really that interesting. But I do admit,
the contortions xians go through trying to prove their god is based on the
Hebrew gods is a bit hilarious.
religion - a religion that chooses to declare itself to not be a
religion as a recruiting tool in the same way the Church of Christ
It's only a religion in the mind of people like yourself, they cannot
accept the fact that there are people that walk this earth and are
decent and yet have no god nor need a god to control their actions or
morals.
You speak of decency? One must earn the right, sir. It isn't inborn.
What right are you talking about? Decency is a state of mind and conduct,
it does not require fear of a god to attain. Xians may think otherwise,
but I'm not obliged to accept their claims until they can provide evidence.
A characteristic they have missed for almost 2000 years.
It's rather pathetic that you must continue to attempt to accuse
atheism of being the same as your mythology, a hollow religion.
Do you deny your fundamental leap of faith? Perhaps you would like to
prove here and now that there is no God or future life?
I cannot deny what I do not have, and I have no leap of faith. As to
proving a negative that there is no god or future life, that's not my job.
My job is simply to live as full and good a live as I can and get away with
even though I'm in a xian society that thinks it knows more about what I
shouldn't do myself. Have you ever heard of self enlightened interest?
attempts to convince us it's not a denomination, because such
statements make for better recruiting of proselytes.
If it is no "denomination," why does it have a militant usenet news
What newsgroup would that be, one that xians continue to invade while they
attempt to spread their toxic mental poisons? And yes, when anyone tries
to convince someone else that their beliefs, especially about something
that is supposedly is important as the gods of humanity, is beneath
contempt. This is standard fare from the so-called xians on USENET, & I
see no change in a continuing practice of attempting to drag others into
their state of mind, which apparently is one that is afraid of life. After
all, they must die to live.
group? Benign, private atheism has no reason for militance. It is
content to reside quietly within the individual mind.
Quite contented mind there, however when I encounter blatant falsehoods
about my position in regards to the gods, I have no problem with rubbing
that individuals nose in the mess they made on the carpet and saying dog,
no biscuit for you. It does not matter to me at other xians think that
whatever that one individual has done is cute or for the glory of god. If
they don't want their nose rubbed in a mess, a mess of their making, they
can learn to show decorum when around others. Decorum that they demand
from others let me point out.
Frankly, I suspect the majority of the atheists I have met around the
world would not want your company on a day-to-day basis. After all,
you're incapable of questioning your gods motives, you're incapable
of questioning why people you know personally are so genetically
screwed up, as to be bizarre, is to be xian, or some other follower
of one of the revealed desert gods. It's rather sad that they myth
of love is in reality based on violence to those that do not accept a
particular mythology, or know more about that mythology and the
followers do.
Vile, sir. If you wish not to have the company of religionists why do
you persist in posting here? They are not likely to pursue you into
your dark spaces.
What makes you think that I have not followed hin back to here, what makes
you think I'm not aware of everything (in spite of my children's claims
that I did, I suspect that I don't but that is really immaterial here),
what makes you think that I have not been watching this for five years and
what makes you think I do not have the right to stand up and say what I
think. A right I have earned the hard way.
As to vilification, I only return the complements, plus 10%.
Now other than attempting to pretend that the same worn-out
argumentation that has been rebutted over the years is all of a
sudden brand-new & valid because you are using it, do you have
anything to say on the subject or are you going to stand around
pointing your finger and flapping your gums or you pretend that those
that lack the things that make you sick are in fact, not your
shortcomings but theirs?
Equally vile, sir. I have yet to see here an athestic argument which
adddressed the logical and experiential differences between it and
Christianity. You and your cohorts have always relied on naught but
vitreol. It's shameful behavior.
Actually, there is no such thing as a logical differences between xianity &
atheism. You try to compare apples and oranges and declare them to be
pomegranates, it does not work. No one is really interested in self
proclaimed evidence, but xians cannot even study of history of the
mythology long enough to even be able to discuss it. As a minor example, a
recently in his particular group there was a claim made that cutting is a
demonic activity. I dare say no xian in this group knows where that came
from or when, nor do they know whether or not it was part of the original
Hebrew bible, not to be confused with the unauthorized version, the xian
bible. Their particular claim that their book is authorized is due to the
fact that they do not recognize the supremacy of their senior god, yahweh
by assumption.
Now if you have nothing further to say, I bid you good day for I am about
to do something really exciting, watch a DVD R/W be formatted. At least,
compared to this particular conversation, that would be exciting.
Yahu
--
BACCHUS, n. A convenient deity invented by the ancients as an
excuse for getting drunk. Devil's dictionary
.
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| User: "Cazador" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history |
26 Nov 2006 01:33:34 PM |
|
|
yahu whacked up Cazador's text as a cover for being non-responsive on a
massive scale.
Cazador wrote:
Concentrate, yahu, both Christianity and atheism involve leaps of
faith. Christianity because it is a "revealed" religion which demands
belief in God by its adherents, and atheism because it demands belief
in the *non-existence* of God. Both of these positions go beyond what
we humans "know" from experience in this life. Suspension of the
rational process and proceding on faith is required to comply with
doctrine in each case. Therefore in the logical sense they are very
similar and I think religious in nature. Religions are belief systems.
Agnosticism, however. . . . . . . .but then you aren't interested in
agnosticism, are you? No, I don't think so. It's not consistent with
the darkness found in your sig.
And Cazador has put yaho's non-responsive text all in one place and
will respond in civilized fashion:
I have considered the claims for all the mythologies of the world for a
rather large number of years now, and I can find no redeeming factors are
reasons to believe in what is not required for the universe to exist. Or
are you saying, the universe is a figment of our imagination?
Cazador: One need not consider all the "mythologies of the world" to
discount origin myths. I too discount them.
Belief that the universe exists based firmly on human observation and
experience. Origin myths are in a different class.
I have been an atheist for over 60 years, and I have yet to encounter any
demands made upon me by my atheism. It does not require me to use my mind
& consider the evidence claimed by various
theologies/mythologies/pathologies.
You do not come to grips with my central point. Atheism requires a leap
of faith equivalent to that involving the garden variety origin myth.
Intellectual self-respect requires you to acknowledge that you arrive
at your atheism through faith. Here again is my central paragraph. You
do not come to grips with it.
Concentrate, yahu, both Christianity and atheism involve leaps of
faith. Christianity because it is a "revealed" religion which demands
belief in God by its adherents, and atheism because it demands belief
in the *non-existence* of God. Both of these positions go beyond what
we humans "know" from experience in this life. Suspension of the
rational process and proceding on faith is required to comply with
doctrine in each case. Therefore in the logical sense they are very
similar and I think religious in nature. Religions are belief systems.
Agnosticism, however. . . . . . . .but then you aren't interested in
agnosticism, are you? No, I don't think so. It's not consistent with
the darkness found in your sig.
It does not require me to give up my spine to become one of the herd. It
does not require me to do anything, not even consider the evidence for or
against any god claims. There's a fair chance that I have studied the
claims for gods far in excess of any xian or any other mythological
follower. This does not make me an expert on the gods, for they apparently
do not exist and how can be one be an expert on the nonexistent.
You evaluation may have been extensive but was it shallow? "The gods?"
They're quite clearly man made. Were you to have demolished them all
you wouldn't have demolished that of which you know nothing, the
possibility of God. To become an atheist you presume without proof that
no God exists. That's a religious act.
Your spine? What is it that makes you think your machismo is at stake?
This is Walter Mitty philosophising, armchair stuff.
Humans know a lot more than you think they do. As an example, no one has
to tell you do not step in front of a speeding bullet, or a speeding 18
wheel truck that is out of control. Your body does a fine job of telling
you don't do this.
Don't be presumptive about our relative levels of knowledge. That's a
greenhorn mistake.
In the first place you're making a presumption that is not necessarily
correct, that the question of gods is even worthy of consideration. Having
read various claims around the world for the gods of humanity, there's no
reason to assume the question is worth asking. It, by the way, does not
state there is no god. Various atheists
hold that position, and depending on the way a god is claimed to function
or exist, various gods can be disproven rather easily. The leader of that
particular pack are the revealed gods of the desert. The followers of
those particular guides make claims in about half of those guys that can be
tested and found to be false. Various other gods are harder to get a
handle on, especially though some eager to the Hindu or first nations of
North America. The revealed gods of the desert depends on their appeal to
the most base of human emotions. Self-centered greed, desire for a
continued life even though they may not have earned one, superiority over
others, the list is rather long. They are the most self-centered of all
the mythologies, and the most transparent. Especially when you consider
that those gods were so puny in the beginning that they required followers
that they had to bribe.
You're still talking about "the Gods" in the human tradition? I've
conceded they are man-made. The issue here is the nature of atheism as
a matter of logic--vis a vis traditional religion and agnosticism. Can
you follow me there? Man is finite and limited. His knowledge and
experience are micro-provincial so far as the universes are concerned.
He grapples with the concept of God without the necessary data. He then
in frustration makes suppositions to span gaps. My point is that
atheism does this to the same extent as do religions. Both are to that
extent hubristic, ego-driven.
You're free to hold any thoughts you want, that does not make them reality
for anybody else.
Of course not. However, all thoughts are not born equal.
Agnosticism has a problem of its own, it presupposes a god exists or else
the question becomes meaningless. Atheism just simply cuts that out, if
you want to consider the possibility of a god, there's only one they can
make the grade.
Agnosticism speaks to a matter mankind knows intimately, the extent of
its understanding. Look again at my paragraph:
Concentrate, yahu, both Christianity and atheism involve leaps of
faith. Christianity because it is a "revealed" religion which demands
belief in God by its adherents, and atheism because it demands belief
in the *non-existence* of God. Both of these positions go beyond what
we humans "know" from experience in this life. Suspension of the
rational process and proceding on faith is required to comply with
doctrine in each case. Therefore in the logical sense they are very
similar and I think religious in nature. Religions are belief systems.
Agnosticism, however. . . . . . . .but then you aren't interested in
agnosticism, are you? No, I don't think so. It's not consistent with
the darkness found in your sig.
I urge you to respond to my "leaps of faith" observation.
Even it would not be considered worthy of worship by a thinking person or
it'd be totally unaware of any worship. That's the god of deism. But then,
that god does not give a damn about particular individuals of the human
race and therefore does not appeal to stark naked greed found in humanity,
it has no emotional appeal and no emotional hook.
Deism simply expresses an all too human yearning after giving up on
Middle-Eastern origin myths. I don't know where you come by your
detailed descriptions of a deist deity.
Troll, not at all. I am perfectly willing & able to defend my positions
when the gods are concerned. Who is incapable of defending their positions
when their gods are involved happens to be, I do hope you are sitting down
for this, followers of the revealed gods of the desert. Perchance, you
would like to discuss the mythology from the beginning and why it is as
false as a 101 peso dollar bill. Then again, maybe you do not have that
ability because you have yet to study and pay attention to the claims
versus the evidence.
You tend to want to jump to conclusions as to me. As I said before
that's not productive. Discussion of the "gods" is entry level,
sophomoric. We don't disagree there. It's time for you to move on to
the question of flaws in your world view.
Atheism is not a philosophy in as much as I have been led to understand
that particular word. It is not a worldview, nor as a basis to build one's
life upon. In other words, it appears you are simply babbling in
attempting to paint others with a brush that is not theirs. It thing I
have noticed since the late 90s on USENET, especially when it involves
people who think they know more about what being an atheist is in an
atheist does himself. This is not novel especially interesting.
Of course it is a philosophy. Atheism is a theory about the principles
or laws that regulate the universe. It has an identifyable structure,
actually a very simple one. It is a philosophy nonetheless.
Maybe that's because the way they are treated in their own newsgroup by
xians? Maybe, just maybe, if xians were to pay attention to what is said
versus what they think is supposed to have been said, that could change.
However, inasmuch as I do not look good in either blue or purple I will not
hold my breath until that happens.
When obscurantisms clash no light is emitted.
Can't say as how I have been released from any constraints that assist in
my getting along in being a contributing member of society, whatever
society I happen to find myself in at the time. I have no concerns about
offending an invisible entity that will slap my pee pee if I don't pretend
to be willing to kiss its *****. I find more pleasure in meeting people
without the artificial constraints of xianity in particular. I have
noticed over the years that if I treat people the way they treat others,
I'm normally accused of being anti-xian. I have noticed if I did not give
xianity any particular excessive credit for the sensibilities of the
believers, it gives them a fit. I cannot give credit where credit is not
due as far as I'm concerned, and none of the revealed gods of the desert
are entitled to any flattery nor are their followers entitled to be treated
as sane or sensible when they invoke those gods.
I write no briefs for the supernatural aspects of Christianity. That's
not the issue I present to you. It has to do with the logical structure
of your philosophy.
I do, however, consider myself to be within the Christian tradition in
terms of morals and ethics. It's a brilliant man made tradition.
& exactly which all is moral and ethical constraints which are found only
in xianity? I have yet to find one unique epic or moral I can only be
associated with the xianity. Maybe you know of one that I might have
missed, as mythes go, it is not really that interesting. But I do admit,
the contortions xians go through trying to prove their god is based on the
Hebrew gods is a bit hilarious.
I received my moral and ethical tradition through western civilization;
it is overtly Christian. So what if it has other antecedents and
similar characteristics have arisen in other traditions. That simply
goes to prove they are all man made. They speak to the human condition
world-wide.
What right are you talking about? Decency is a state of mind and conduct,
it does not require fear of a god to attain. Xians may think otherwise,
but I'm not obliged to accept their claims until they can provide evidence.
A characteristic they have missed for almost 2000 years.
You are not required to accept the claims of atheism until the atheists
can provide evidence that no god exists.
For the sake of the argument let's define decency as civility which I
think is not far off the mark. A sense of community which is absolutely
necessary requires civility.
Do you deny your fundamental leap of faith? Perhaps you would like to
prove here and now that there is no God or future life?
I cannot deny what I do not have, and I have no leap of faith. As to
proving a negative that there is no god or future life, that's not my job.
My job is simply to live as full and good a live as I can and get away with
even though I'm in a xian society that thinks it knows more about what I
shouldn't do myself. Have you ever heard of self enlightened interest?
Oh yes you do. You presume without experiential data or evidence that
no god exists. That, sir, is a leap of faith.
attempts to convince us it's not a denomination, because such
statements make for better recruiting of proselytes.
What newsgroup would that be, one that xians continue to invade while they
attempt to spread their toxic mental poisons? And yes, when anyone tries
to convince someone else that their beliefs, especially about something
that is supposedly is important as the gods of humanity, is beneath
contempt. This is standard fare from the so-called xians on USENET, & I
see no change in a continuing practice of attempting to drag others into
their state of mind, which apparently is one that is afraid of life. After
all, they must die to live.
The behavior of fundamentalists on usenet need not even be considered
on the question of whether elementary civility is advisable for YOU.
Quite contented mind there, however when I encounter blatant falsehoods
about my position in regards to the gods, I have no problem with rubbing
that individuals nose in the mess they made on the carpet and saying dog,
no biscuit for you. It does not matter to me at other xians think that
whatever that one individual has done is cute or for the glory of god. If
they don't want their nose rubbed in a mess, a mess of their making, they
can learn to show decorum when around others. Decorum that they demand
from others let me point out.
Your lack of civility is your problem, not that of anyone else. And
your other problem is that you're still discussing "the gods," which
are not at issue. The state of human knowledge and wisdom is, however.
What makes you think that I have not followed hin back to here, what makes
you think I'm not aware of everything (in spite of my children's claims
that I did, I suspect that I don't but that is really immaterial here),
what makes you think that I have not been watching this for five years and
what makes you think I do not have the right to stand up and say what I
think. A right I have earned the hard way.
As to vilification, I only return the complements, plus 10%.
You can respond to what passes for ideas--and limit it to that as a
matter of moral and ethical principle.
Now other than attempting to pretend that the same worn-out
argumentation that has been rebutted over the years is all of a
sudden brand-new & valid because you are using it, do you have
anything to say on the subject or are you going to stand around
pointing your finger and flapping your gums or you pretend that those
that lack the things that make you sick are in fact, not your
shortcomings but theirs?
Equally vile, sir. I have yet to see here an athestic argument which
adddressed the logical and experiential differences between it and
Christianity. You and your cohorts have always relied on naught but
vitreol. It's shameful behavior.
Actually, there is no such thing as a logical differences between xianity &
atheism. You try to compare apples and oranges and declare them to be
pomegranates, it does not work. No one is really interested in self
proclaimed evidence, but xians cannot even study of history of the
mythology long enough to | | | | | | |
