| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"johac" |
| Date: |
04 Nov 2006 02:41:31 AM |
| Object: |
Atheist doesn't have to display car sticker with cross. |
Atheist fights City Hall and wins.
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Atheist doesn't have to display Burbank car sticker
(http://www.dailysouthtown.com/news/121162,1NWS8-02.article)
November 2, 2006
By Stephanie Gehring Staff writer
A Burbank college student and atheist has won the right to remove the
city's vehicle sticker from her car pending a judge's approval of an
out-of-court agreement.
Nichole Schultz, who was raised Catholic, sued Burbank in October
because the city's vehicle sticker includes a cross.
The sticker depicts a soldier with his rifle kneeling at a cross.
The agreement ends a six-month dispute between Schultz and the city.
Atheist advocate Robert Sherman, who assisted Schultz, said the college
student wanted the city to provide her with some kind of alternative.
She should be allowed to remove the cross from the sticker, use a
different sticker or use no sticker at all, he suggested.
"The obligation is to pay the city vehicle tax -- not to display
Christian imagery from your car," Sherman said.
Under the agreement, Schultz can drive her car without a vehicle sticker
until next year when the new stickers are printed. If she receives a
ticket for driving without a sticker, the city will not make Schultz pay
a fine.
Both Burbank Mayor Harry Klein and attorney Joe Cainkar were out of town
and unavailable for comment.
In the spring, Klein called Schultz's concerns "ludicrous." He said the
cross stood for the graves of fallen soldiers, not Christianity.
"If the mayor sincerely believed it was a generic grave marker, the
courts have ruled for legal purposes that the ... cross is the
unmistakable symbol of Christianity," Sherman said.
Burbank Ald. Dan Foy said he knew the city was trying to work out an
agreement with Schultz.
He said the sticker was not intended to offend anyone.
"To her it's offensive. We don't see it that way," Foy said. "To be
honest, this is the first time we've ever had a complaint."
Schultz did not return a phone call seeking comment, but Sherman said he
presented the agreement to her Monday.
U.S. District Judge Mark Filip is expected to review the agreement Nov.
16.
Sherman said he considers Burbank's vehicle sticker nothing more than an
effort to force Christianity on its residents.
"The secular excuse involved the community claiming that they were
merely trying to honor veterans," Sherman said. "The way they chose to
honor veterans was to put on their vehicle sticker a war memorial and a
Christian cross as the focus of the scene."
---
http://www.dailysouthtown.com/news/121162,1NWS8-02.article
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
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| User: "MsFrustum" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist doesn't have to display car sticker with cross. |
20 Nov 2006 09:27:15 PM |
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On Nov 4, 8:20=A0pm, Uncle Vic <addr...@withheld.com> wrote:
Most officials think the christian icons are part of everyday live. =A0A
tombstone, a cross, a flag, it's all the same to them. =A0They don't think
twice about the fact that they do offend a small portion of the population
by using religious icons.
They _do_ know they offend a substantial minority, but think that's OK.
They think the USA is a democracy where the majority can do as it
pleases. They don't recognise the constitution.
--
LOP
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist doesn't have to display car sticker with cross. |
25 Nov 2006 03:31:52 PM |
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On 20 Nov 2006 19:27:15 -0800, "MsFrustum" <msfrustum@aol.com> wrote in
alt.atheism
On Nov 4, 8:200m, Uncle Vic <addr...@withheld.com> wrote:
Most officials think the christian icons are part of everyday live.
tombstone, a cross, a flag, it's all the same to them. hey don't think
twice about the fact that they do offend a small portion of the population
by using religious icons.
They _do_ know they offend a substantial minority, but think that's OK.
They think the USA is a democracy where the majority can do as it
pleases. They don't recognise the constitution.
That they don't think is the problem along with the terminal lack of
education and backbone.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist doesn't have to display car sticker with cross. |
04 Nov 2006 10:02:11 PM |
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On Sun, 05 Nov 2006 03:20:55 GMT, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com>
wrote:
Most officials think the christian icons are part of everyday live. A
tombstone, a cross, a flag, it's all the same to them. They don't think
twice about the fact that they do offend a small portion of the population
by using religious icons.
A larger portion all the time. Atheists aren't the only ones who
don;t like crosses on government documents - Moslems aren't too
thrilled with them either. They see a cross, they think of the
Crusades.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
The most curious social convention of the great age in which we live is the
one to the effect that religious opinions should be respected.
-- H. L. Mencken
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist doesn't have to display car sticker with cross. |
05 Nov 2006 12:23:17 AM |
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In article <4goqk2lsvot4emoou61scdpl478ho51m0p@4ax.com>,
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 05 Nov 2006 03:20:55 GMT, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com>
wrote:
Most officials think the christian icons are part of everyday live. A
tombstone, a cross, a flag, it's all the same to them. They don't think
twice about the fact that they do offend a small portion of the population
by using religious icons.
A larger portion all the time. Atheists aren't the only ones who
don;t like crosses on government documents - Moslems aren't too
thrilled with them either. They see a cross, they think of the
Crusades.
For years military cemeteries have allowed the Star of David for Jewish
soldiers. Now the VA, which is in charge of the cemeteries, allows
something like 39 symbols, even one for atheists (the American Atheists
logo.) However, when they want to show one grave, they invariable pick
the cross.
If the city wanted to be fair, they should give the applicants for the
decals their choice of symbols, use a generic symbols, or use a
different design.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist doesn't have to display car sticker with cross. |
05 Nov 2006 10:11:24 AM |
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On Sat, 04 Nov 2006 22:23:17 -0800 johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
said the following in alt.atheism and I was immediately reminded of
1,000 Chinchillas singing Handel's "Messiah" for some reason...
In article <4goqk2lsvot4emoou61scdpl478ho51m0p@4ax.com>,
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 05 Nov 2006 03:20:55 GMT, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com>
wrote:
Most officials think the christian icons are part of everyday live. A
tombstone, a cross, a flag, it's all the same to them. They don't think
twice about the fact that they do offend a small portion of the population
by using religious icons.
A larger portion all the time. Atheists aren't the only ones who
don;t like crosses on government documents - Moslems aren't too
thrilled with them either. They see a cross, they think of the
Crusades.
For years military cemeteries have allowed the Star of David for Jewish
soldiers. Now the VA, which is in charge of the cemeteries, allows
something like 39 symbols, even one for atheists (the American Atheists
logo.) However, when they want to show one grave, they invariable pick
the cross.
http://www.cem.va.gov/cem/hm/hmemb.asp
for the whole list.
When they go for the generic marker, they use the basic cross because
it is by far the most common.
If the city wanted to be fair, they should give the applicants for the
decals their choice of symbols, use a generic symbols, or use a
different design.
How about the crest of the Department of Defense? Or the genen ric
American eagle?
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2011
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the
source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a
stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as
good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist doesn't have to display car sticker with cross. |
06 Nov 2006 02:03:13 AM |
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In article <943sk2lapd6ui5j5auhg48opfpl37a5ku2@4ax.com>,
Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
On Sat, 04 Nov 2006 22:23:17 -0800 johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
said the following in alt.atheism and I was immediately reminded of
1,000 Chinchillas singing Handel's "Messiah" for some reason...
In article <4goqk2lsvot4emoou61scdpl478ho51m0p@4ax.com>,
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 05 Nov 2006 03:20:55 GMT, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com>
wrote:
Most officials think the christian icons are part of everyday live. A
tombstone, a cross, a flag, it's all the same to them. They don't think
twice about the fact that they do offend a small portion of the
population
by using religious icons.
A larger portion all the time. Atheists aren't the only ones who
don;t like crosses on government documents - Moslems aren't too
thrilled with them either. They see a cross, they think of the
Crusades.
For years military cemeteries have allowed the Star of David for Jewish
soldiers. Now the VA, which is in charge of the cemeteries, allows
something like 39 symbols, even one for atheists (the American Atheists
logo.) However, when they want to show one grave, they invariable pick
the cross.
http://www.cem.va.gov/cem/hm/hmemb.asp
for the whole list.
When they go for the generic marker, they use the basic cross because
it is by far the most common.
They do, but it is not shared in common among the various religious
groups.
If the city wanted to be fair, they should give the applicants for the
decals their choice of symbols, use a generic symbols, or use a
different design.
How about the crest of the Department of Defense? Or the genen ric
American eagle?
Those would be fine, or they could do what the soldiers often do to pay
tribute with the rifle stuck in the ground by the bayonet, a helmet on
top, and the empty boots in front. To me that's a much more powerful
symbol than a cross.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
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