Atheist Foundations of Ethics



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "Michelle Malkin"
Date: 30 Oct 2006 06:27:41 PM
Object: Atheist Foundations of Ethics
http://civic.bev.net/atheistsnrv/articles/definition.html
ATHEIST FOUNDATIONS OF ETHICS
John B. Hodges, March 12, 2006.
INTRODUCTION
In the United States, evangelists often claim that atheists have no basis
for morality, no "foundations" for ethics. This claim goes back at least as
far as the Apostle Paul.
Many examples could be given of this claim, by historical and contemporary
writers. Most famous is the character in the novel by Dostoyevsky, who says
in essence that "If God does not exist, then everything is permitted." The
claim is that for those without a supernatural basis for morality, all
morality must be relative. All is permissible.
These evangelists also imply, and sometimes say outright, that those who
believe in a god are more ethical than nonbelievers. "For theists, morality
isn't relative. There is a standard by which to judge such things."
So, in their view, believers are morally superior to atheists, because THEY
have a foundation for morality and WE do not. Not to mention the obvious,
that they MUST be morally superior, because THEY are going to Heaven while
WE are not.
So, are they right? Do theists have better foundations for their ethics than
atheists do?
WHAT IS "ETHICS"?
Ethics, generally, are rules, principles, policies for behavior, with the
goal of ______ (fill in the blank).
Religious ethics fills in the blank with something supernatural. "Pleasing
God", "Getting admission to Heaven", "Achieving Nirvana", whatever.
Atheist ethics fills in the blank with something in this world. What is the
purpose of human life? We have our choice on that. "Promoting the health and
happiness of my family, friends, adopted circle, and our descendants."
"Contributing to the long-run survival of human civilization". "Maximizing
my lifetime total of pleasure." There are a million possibilities.
"FOUNDATIONS" OF RELIGIOUS ETHICS
Religious morality is based on faith. Faith is, ultimately, believing what
you are told, by someone whom you have chosen to regard as an authority.
Your chosen authority tells you about invisible things, Heaven and Hell and
God, and about what this God wants you to do and not do.
Faith is required, to believe that this invisible god actually exists, that
he/she/it wants your obedience, and that for some reason this god cannot or
will not speak to you directly, but WILL speak to this self-proclaimed
authority. You must have faith that your chosen authority is actually
hearing from this god and not from some other invisible spirit, some
mischievous or malevolent ghost or demon. You must have faith that your
prophet is not making it all up out of whole cloth, and is reporting
accurately what this invisible spirit is saying. If your chosen prohet lived
centuries ago, you have to hope that the words of this prophet were
recorded, copied, and translated accurately for, as Jeremiah said, "actually
the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely". (Jer. 8:8)
If someone calls you on the telephone and says they are working for a good
cause, what reason do you have to believe them? Last year Americans were
taken for $40 Billion dollars by fraudulent telephone callers. If you know
someone face to face in some OTHER way, and you then recognize their voice
over the phone, then you have reason to trust what they say; but a stranger
calling could be anyone. So, let us assume that the Biblical prophets are
honorable men; all, all honorable men. A prophet hears a voice coming out of
the air, out of a burning bush, or whatever, and the voice says: "I am
Yahveh, King of the Universe. I am the Creator of all things." How do they
know, how CAN they know, whether this Yahveh character is telling the truth?
We don't even know if this is the real Yahveh, much less the real Creator of
the Universe. We don't know if it was the same voice speaking to different
prophets. The voice could be some imp or sprite about three inches tall,
playing a practical joke. It could be a demon with darker plans. Is this
Yahveh really the Creator of the Universe, as he claims, or is he perhaps
some local ghost? Perhaps Yahveh is lying, as he has sometimes done. (1
Kings 22, 2 Chronicles 18, Ezekiel 14:9, 2 Thessolonians 2:11-12.) Perhaps
Yahveh is giving bad laws deliberately, as he boasted in Ezekiel 20:25. All
this has to be decided subjectively.
Religious ethics comes down to obedience to (allegedly divine) authority.
Just as "faith" consists of believing what you are told, religious ethics
consists of doing what you are told. But a minute of thought will show that
morality is not the same as obedience. We all know of examples where people
who were obeying orders have done evil things, and other examples where
people who were rebelling against authority have done good things.
We all start out as children, and we first learn morality by instruction
from our parents. We know what is right and wrong "because our parents say
so." For a small child, morality is nothing other than obedience to parents.
This is necessary and proper, because the child does not have the
understanding or perspective needed to live by a rational morality. Humans
are a social species, we have been living in groups for longer than we have
been human. Children are predisposed to learn morality and social customs in
the same way, and for the same reason, that they are predisposed to learn
language. Both language and ethics are vitally important tools for living,
for a species that survives by cooperating in groups. Religion hijacks this
childhood instinct, substituting an invisible cosmic parent for the earthly
ones. Religious morality consists of obedience to the instructions of this
cosmic parent, as reported and interpreted by whoever is bold enough (crazy
enough, dishonest enough) to do so.
Religion teaches a child's view of ethics, that "being good" means "obeying
your parent". It gives a moral blank check to those bold enough, dishonest
enough, to claim to speak for God.
If there WERE any Cosmic Parent, it would not need human messengers; it
could speak directly to whomever it wished. If a divine being wants me to do
something, they should tell me, not you. If they have a message for all
humankind, they could write it on the face of the Moon, in letters five
miles wide. Any alleged "revelation" DELIVERED BY HUMAN BEINGS is
presumptively fraudulent.
There is nothing more "relative" than supernatural belief. What you choose
to have faith in is entirely subjective. What writings you count as
scripture is both subjective and culturally relative. What interpretation
you put on those scriptures is likewise. Sincere believers in the "same"
religion have been pacifists and imperialists, millionaires and ascetics,
Capitalists and Socialists, polygamists and celibates. Not to mention
murderers. If a believer wants to take any particular moral position, or
commit any particular atrocity, all they have to do is convince themselves
that God approves. This seems not to be hard, and God never shows up to tell
the believer that they are mistaken. Religious morality is inherently
subjective and relative, because it depends crucially on faith in invisible,
untestable things.
When a believer says that his morality is "absolute", it means he is
resolutely determined not to apply any of his own intelligence to moral
questions. When he says it is universal and unchanging, it means his
morality is indifferent to the consequences of trying to follow it in the
real world. He may also mean that he is willing to apply whatever force may
be necessary to make everyone else bow down to his own chosen Lord.
Prophets are those who are deluded enough, or boldly dishonest enough, to
set themselves up as the local representatives of God. Being human, they may
give out bad teachings, and may exploit their position. Understandably
jealous and fearful, they suppress questioning and independent thinking
among their followers and cast competing prophets as devils and servants of
the Cosmic Enemy, the Great Satan. From this follows all the bloody history
of religion. Instead of leading people to treat each other as kin, religion
historically has led them to treat selected others as "enemies of God". Such
enemies have been held to deserve whatever suffering you can inflict on them
and more, until and unless they submit and obey.
Contrary to its claim to be the source of all morality, religion has
sponsored and endorsed sectarian warfare, genocide, torture, persecutions of
lesser sorts, slavery, male supremacy, inquisitions and thought control;
even for the obedient, it has sponsored self-censorship, self-abnegation,
self-mutilation, rejection of medical care, suppression of rational inquiry
and scientific education. Priests have been allied with kings and dictators
throughout history, using religion as a tool to keep exploited people quiet.
Religion has perpetrated a wholesale swindle on the human race, diverting
large amounts of time, thought, and wealth to appeasing a ghost, and the
ghost's local representatives. It has perverted the field of ethics,
severing it from any connection to the consequences for real people in this
world, denouncing as sinful any attempt to apply human thought to moral
questions.
FOUNDATIONS OF ATHEIST ETHICS
Ethics, generally, are rules, principles, policies for behavior, with the
goal of ______ (fill in the blank).
Atheist ethics fills in the blank with something in this world. What is the
purpose of human life? We have our choice on that. The fact that we have our
choice of what to value makes atheist ethics relative. The fact that our
ultimate value is something in this world has the advantage that we can
choose to value objective things, making our personal ethics objective.
Doing X will, or will not, objectively contribute toward our chosen goal.
For foundations, theists have their faith in invisible things. Atheists have
the objective experience of living in this world that we see in front of us.
Where can we get "objective" ethics? Look at the consequences of actions for
real people in this world. A consequentialist system has an ultimate goal
and a lot of derivative values, which are recommended means to that goal. An
objective ethic is a consequentialist ethic that has an ultimate goal that
is objectively measureable. It then becomes an objective question whether a
particular recommended means will in fact lead to that goal, whether another
means might be more effective. The statement "If you want X then you ought
to do Y" becomes a statement about cause-and-effect relationships that is
objectively true or false, and can be investigated by scientific procedures.
What about the choice of your ultimate goal, your ultimate value that you
are pursuing? Can we say that some goal is "better" than others, and
deserves to be adopted by everyone? I think there is one that we can predict
will be widely popular, but there is no logical or cosmic necessity that it
be adopted by everyone.
There is a built-in "default" goal of biological life, genetic reproductive
success, also called "inclusive fitness" by biologists. For nonhuman life,
this goal could be described as "promote the health of your family", where
"health" is defined as "survival ability" and "family" is "all who share
your genes, to the degree that they share your genes". Reproductive success
is the goal that almost all living organisms pursue, because they follow
their internal urges uncritically. Their internal urges are shaped by
natural selection, and inclusive fitness is what natural selection selects
for. In short, the default goal of biological life is to raise kids; failing
that, help your kinfolk raise kids.
If the majority of living things pursue reproduction as their ultimate goal,
by itself this implies nothing about what I ought to do. But I think it
provides useful information I may wish to consider while I am choosing what
I shall try to do.
Human beings are a special case in at least two ways. First, we have
self-awareness and the ability to choose our goals; inclusive fitness is
only the "default option", toward which our nature will incline us unless we
consciously choose to pursue something else. Second, humans are more than
carriers of genes; we have original thoughts, we create, receive, modify,
and transmit culture. Therefore, for human beings, "inclusive fitness" would
as legitimately include our cultural kin as our genetic kin.
Because we are all the offspring of uncounted generations of
family-health-maximizers, we may find adopting this goal consciously to be
congenial. The goal I advocate adopting consciously is "promote the health
of your circle". The boundaries of your circle are your choice, but it would
be entirely natural to include yourself, your genetic kin and descendants,
your cultural kin and descendants. (There are no sharp natural boundaries to
kinship, either genetic or cultural, but near kin commonly receive more
concern than distant kin.) If you have no personal interest in raising kids,
or in helping your kinfolk raise kids, then contribute something to the
culture.
"Health", defined as "survival ability", implies other derivative values.
The more knowledge you have, the more friends you have, the more freedom,
the more wealth, the more wisdom, other things being equal, the greater your
ability to survive, and promote the survival of your circle. The fact that
we have a "default goal" written into our genes by natural selection
accounts for our intuitive feelings that certain things are "obviously" good
or bad. But we don't have to depend on intuition; logic is a better guide.
Human beings are social animals; social animals survive by cooperating in
groups. We have been living in groups for longer than we have been human. We
are more social than any other species; the largest insect societies have a
few million individuals, humans cooperate in societies of hundreds of
millions, even billions. Because we are social animals, "Health" immediately
implies "Peace" as a basic value. Our ethics must promote the peace of our
communities.
In THE ELEMENTS OF MORAL PHILOSOPHY, (an introductory textbook), James
Rachels writes (p. 129): "The key idea [of the Social-contract approach to
ethics] is that morally binding rules are the ones that are necessary for
social living. It is obvious... that we could not live together very well if
we did not accept rules prohibiting murder, assault, theft, lying, breaking
promises, and the like. These rules are justified simply by showing that
they are necessary if we are to cooperate for our mutual benefit."
In other words, if you want to maintain peaceful and cooperative relations
with your neighbors, don't kill, steal, lie, or break agreements. As
Shakespeare wrote, "It needs no ghost, Milord, come from the grave, to tell
us this."
Social-contract morality is the ethics of Peace. It can set the minimum
standards of right and wrong. But there are many different possible ways a
peaceful and cooperative society might function. Beyond the ABC's of right
and wrong described above, necessary to the cohesion and cooperative
functioning of any group, the ethics of Health can provide an objective
standard for comparing possible societies. Societies can be judged better or
worse according to whether they are a "healthy" place for your kin "unto all
generations" to live in. The ethics of Health imply the political goal of
Sustainable Civilization.
MEANING
Human beings are storytelling animals. For most people, "the meaning of
life" is what larger story they think their life fits into. They get great
satisfaction from having a larger meaning for their lives. A philosopher
named Braithwaite described religion as "morals helped out by mythology."
People want a "good" story to include heroes with goals, ideals,
aspirations; to identify obstacles and challenges against which the heroes
must struggle; to offer a real hope of victory. To provide meaning for their
lives, people must regard the story as true, or potentially true, in its
essentials. You must have good reason to hope that, if you live by the
morals taught, the goals, ideals, aspirations will be achieved in reality.
Religious folk get meaning from their religion, and feel that if they lost
their religion, life would have no meaning. But the stories of religion are
not the only stories possible. Meaning is the story you choose to join.
There are other stories we can join, that have the advantage of being true.
The story of life on Earth is a larger story that everybody's life could fit
into, and in fact does.
Reading the story of life on Earth has impressed me with the rarity and
value of "the way we live now". For three billion years the highest form of
life was blue-green algae. For a million years the human species made fire
and stone tools, and lived by hunting and gathering in small tribes. For ten
thousand years most of us lived by peasant agriculture, which is no fun. It
would be a great tragedy if our civilization crashed and burned a few
hundred years after discovering the scientific method. I would like to see a
civilization based on reason and freedom last for geological ages.
If our civilization is to be long-lived, we must face the challenge of
sustainability- stabilizing our population, establishing a long-lived peace,
developing forms of industry that do not poison our water and air, forms of
agriculture that do not create deserts, energy sources that will supply us
for millennia. For our long-term health, we will also want to develop the
ability to alter the orbits of the apollo asteroids, whose orbits cross the
orbit of Earth. Colonizing the solar system would not be a bad idea, either.
Fairy-tales about the supernatural are not necessary to give meaning or
purpose to life. Instead of seeking a ticket to Heaven by being an obedient
slave on Earth, we can gain meaning by taking a positive role in history,
seeking to make this Earth a better place.
THE BOUNDARIES OF MORAL CONCERN
Given that we have our choice, of our personal goal in life, what goal shall
we choose? As individuals, we can choose "life-goals" and "legacy-goals".
Life-goals are whatever would be a satisfying life for you. This will vary
according to talent and temperament. Legacy-goals are the net effect you
want your life to have on the world. They are the last goals at which you
have any chance to succeed. Considering that accident, crime, disease, etc.
leave all of us uncertain as to our time of death, if you want your personal
story to end in victory, you will choose your actions at all times in your
life to be compatible with your desired legacy. In this way, your
legacy-goal may set limits on what you would be willing to do to achieve
your life-goals.
The ultimate source of fear and despair is death. Death is the ultimate
failure, the ultimate loss. If you want your personal story to end in
victory, what could be your response to this prospect? The antithesis of
death is health, defined as the ability to survive. Though as individuals we
shall inevitably die sooner or later, we can survive through our genes
(families) and through our communicated thoughts (culture).
To the extent that you identify with your body, you will survive death
through your family of the body, i.e. those that share your genes. To the
extent that you identify with your mind, you will survive death through your
family of the mind, i.e. all those with whom you share culture, with whom
you could share your thoughts.
Joining the true story of biological evolution, we can seek to contribute to
the health of our families. Joining the true story of cultural evolution, we
can seek to contribute to the health of our society.
Cultural evolution has led to a steady widening of the boundaries of moral
concern. The human species' development of comparatively high intelligence,
the development of language, the development of writing, of new tools and
methods, and in recent times of the scientific method of understanding the
world, has led to a great increase in the potential value of reciprocity.
"Reciprocity" here refers to the whole network of trading relationships
which are peaceful, cooperative, and mutually beneficial. By discovering new
ways of producing desired things, other than hunting and gathering, we
discovered new forms of valuable cooperation.
For producing desired things by cooperative action, there are advantages to
having larger groups rather than smaller. There are "economies of scale"
that can be obtained only by larger groups. Larger groups can support having
a greater variety of different products available, higher levels of
specialized skill, and new types of production that are not possible at all
on smaller scales. Other things equal, a larger group also has the advantage
in intergroup conflict.
Cultural evolution has come to wholly overshadow biological evolution. With
the continuing development of culture, the power of the human race has
multiplied and multiplied again. Peace has gotten a whole lot better, and
war has gotten a whole lot worse. It has become vastly more advantageous to
avoid conflict and maintain peaceful cooperation, in ever-larger and more
inclusive groups.
So- the fact that humans are not only social but also intelligent, not only
carriers of genes but also carriers of culture, tends to make it
advantageous to push out the boundaries of moral concern, beyond the reach
supported by instinct. I think the natural limit of this process is to
include all carriers of culture, all potential cooperators, all persons, in
one society.
Beyond persons, we may even choose to include more, for at least two
reasons.
First, I would advocate including "former persons"- those who have died, and
those who have suffered brain damage. This I call the "insurance clause" to
the social contract- we are all at risk of becoming "former persons", so we
all have reason to want certain rights of "former persons" to be protected.
Second, I would allow an "adopted honorary person" clause. If any person
wishes to adopt an animal or a "pre-person" as a member of their own family,
being responsible for it's care, training, and behavior, I would grant the
adoptee certain rights.
A third reason for including nonpersons would be compassion. John Rawls
defined a "good person" this way: "A good person is one who has the
qualities of moral character that it would be rational for members of a
well-ordered society to want in their associates." In short, a "good person"
is a desirable neighbor. For many reasons, a compassionate person would be a
more desirable neighbor than a callous one. We want our neighbors to have at
least some degree of compassion, but how much shall we ask for, as a matter
of social mores? If we say that a certain minimum is required to be socially
acceptable, then we must show that much compassion ourselves, which could
become expensive. A modest level would say that we should not torture
animals for fun. A higher level would require humane treatment of farm
animals, even if that interferes with maximizing profits. A still higher
level would ban hunting and promote vegetarianism. The level required by
social mores will be culturally relative, subject to negotiation and change.
SUMMARY
Ethics are rules, principles, policies for behavior, with the goal of ______
(fill in the blank). Religious ethics fills in the blank with something
supernatural. This makes religious ethics inherently subjective and
relative, because you must choose to have faith in what you are told, by
some chosen authority, about invisible, untestable things. Atheist ethics
fills in the blank with something in this world. We have our choice of what
to value, so atheist ethics are also relative; but if we choose to value
something that is objectively measureable, our ethics can be objective.
There is one particular choice of what we shall ultimately value, that we
can expect will be a widely popular choice across all human societies and
cultures, because it is favored by natural selection. Because we are social
animals evolved by natural selection, we would be expected to value the
health (survival-ability) of our families, and the peace of our communities.
This offers a "natural" standard of ethics: The Good is that which leads to
health, the Right is that which leads to peace.
Our reasons for "being ethical" by this standard include kinship,
reciprocity, compassion, and the desire to have and preserve a larger
meaning for our lives.
.

User: "Pangur Ban"

Title: Re: Atheist Foundations of Ethics 30 Oct 2006 10:27:10 PM
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote in
news:nqidnZkUeZblBdvYnZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@comcast.com:

http://civic.bev.net/atheistsnrv/articles/definition.html


ATHEIST FOUNDATIONS OF ETHICS John B. Hodges, March 12, 2006.
INTRODUCTION In the United States, evangelists often claim that
atheists have no basis for morality, no "foundations" for ethics. This
claim goes back at least as far as the Apostle Paul.

Many examples could be given of this claim, by historical and
contemporary writers. Most famous is the character in the novel by
Dostoyevsky, who says in essence that "If God does not exist, then
everything is permitted." The claim is that for those without a
supernatural basis for morality, all morality must be relative. All is
permissible.

If quoting writers, a direct quote by a real person who is/was a writer
might have been a tad more appropriate than a fictional character.


These evangelists also imply, and sometimes say outright, that those
who believe in a god are more ethical than nonbelievers. "For theists,
morality isn't relative. There is a standard by which to judge such
things."

So, in their view, believers are morally superior to atheists, because
THEY have a foundation for morality and WE do not. Not to mention the
obvious, that they MUST be morally superior, because THEY are going to
Heaven while WE are not.

In whose view? Not this believer's view! That this the problem with
sweeping generalizations; they obliterate the exceptions.... or paint
them with the same tarbrush. Also, "believers" encompasses anyone who
believes in a deity - heaven is a fantasy of christians.


So, are they right? Do theists have better foundations for their
ethics than atheists do?

WHAT IS "ETHICS"?

Ethics, generally, are rules, principles, policies for behavior, with
the goal of ______ (fill in the blank).

Religious ethics fills in the blank with something supernatural.
"Pleasing God", "Getting admission to Heaven", "Achieving Nirvana",
whatever.

Or maybe something as simple and non-supernatural as do no harm.


Atheist ethics fills in the blank with something in this world. What
is the purpose of human life? We have our choice on that. "Promoting
the health and happiness of my family, friends, adopted circle, and
our descendants." "Contributing to the long-run survival of human
civilization". "Maximizing my lifetime total of pleasure." There are a
million possibilities.

"FOUNDATIONS" OF RELIGIOUS ETHICS

Religious morality is based on faith. Faith is, ultimately, believing
what you are told, by someone whom you have chosen to regard as an
authority. Your chosen authority tells you about invisible things,
Heaven and Hell and God, and about what this God wants you to do and
not do.

Another sweeping generalization. I was not "told" my faith by anyone or
any book, or any authority. The writer has gone from believer to
christian again.


Faith is required, to believe that this invisible god actually exists,

believer

that he/she/it wants your obedience,

christianity
and that for some reason this god

cannot or will not speak to you directly, but WILL speak to this
self-proclaimed authority.

christianity
You must have faith that your chosen

authority is actually hearing from this god and not from some other
invisible spirit, some mischievous or malevolent ghost or demon.

christianity - and demons, ghosts, etc do not exist

You must have faith that your prophet is not making it all up out of
whole cloth, and is reporting accurately what this invisible spirit is
saying.

christianity

If your chosen prohet lived centuries ago, you have to hope that the
words of this prophet were recorded, copied, and translated accurately
for, as Jeremiah said, "actually the lying pen of the scribes has
handled it falsely". (Jer. 8:8)

christianity


If someone calls you on the telephone and says they are working for a
good cause, what reason do you have to believe them? Last year
Americans were taken for $40 Billion dollars by fraudulent telephone
callers. If you know someone face to face in some OTHER way, and you
then recognize their voice over the phone, then you have reason to
trust what they say; but a stranger calling could be anyone.

Precisely.

So, let us assume that the Biblical prophets are honorable men; all,
all honorable men. A prophet hears a voice coming out of the air, out
of a burning bush, or whatever, and the voice says: "I am Yahveh, King
of the Universe. I am the Creator of all things." How do they know,
how CAN they know, whether this Yahveh character is telling the truth?
We don't even know if this is the real Yahveh, much less the real
Creator of the Universe. We don't know if it was the same voice
speaking to different prophets. The voice could be some imp or sprite
about three inches tall, playing a practical joke. It could be a demon
with darker plans. Is this Yahveh really the Creator of the Universe,
as he claims, or is he perhaps some local ghost? Perhaps Yahveh is
lying, as he has sometimes done. (1 Kings 22, 2 Chronicles 18, Ezekiel
14:9, 2 Thessolonians 2:11-12.) Perhaps Yahveh is giving bad laws
deliberately, as he boasted in Ezekiel 20:25. All this has to be
decided subjectively.

Christianity yet again.


Religious ethics comes down to obedience to (allegedly divine)
authority.

Believer - but not true of this theist. I live in obedience to myself
and no other (speaking of religion only)

Just as "faith" consists of believing what you are told,

No, it does not. Generalization again.

religious ethics consists of doing what you are told.

No, it does not. Generalization again.

But a minute of thought will show that morality is not the same as
obedience. We all know of examples where people who were obeying
orders have done evil things, and other examples where people who were
rebelling against authority have done good things.

We all start out as children,

Brilliant! Absolutely brilliant! I never ever had thought that we all
were children once. Sheesh!

and we first learn morality by
instruction from our parents.

Instruction which encompasses not only the verbal - but the modeling
also. Monkey sees; monkey does.

We know what is right and wrong "because our parents say so."

Basically true - grandparents and other family members can have input
also.

For a small child, morality is nothing other than
obedience to parents.

And a sense of fairness which develops rather early.

This is necessary and proper, because the child does not have the
understanding or perspective needed to live by a rational morality.
Humans are a social species, we have been living in groups for longer
than we have been human. Children are predisposed to learn morality
and social customs in the same way,

This was once true; when children lived in a group setting (tight
social interaction in communal living quarters), they had not only
parents as instructors and models, they had all the adults in the
community. They learned the morality and social customs of the
community. Today, children are raised by generally one or two adults
which restricts their moralities and social customs to those of the two
adults.

and for the same reason, that they are predisposed to learn language.
Both language and ethics are vitally important tools for living, for a
species that survives by cooperating in groups. Religion hijacks this
childhood instinct, substituting an invisible cosmic parent for the
earthly ones.

That's silly! Children learn about the "cosmic parent" from the adults
who raise them! Children are indifferent to religion if that is the way
the adults raise them. Children learn to cooperate in groups - or not -
from the adults who raise them. Religion has only a peripheral effect.

Religious morality consists of obedience to the instructions of this
cosmic parent, as reported and interpreted by whoever is bold enough
(crazy enough, dishonest enough) to do so.

Back to christianity again. Wish the writer would decide to either
address christians or address theists.... and not skip back and forth.


Religion teaches a child's view of ethics, that "being good" means
"obeying your parent". It gives a moral blank check to those bold
enough, dishonest enough, to claim to speak for God.

Christianity - with a bit of believer thrown in.


If there WERE any Cosmic Parent, it would not need human messengers;
it could speak directly to whomever it wished. If a divine being wants
me to do something, they should tell me, not you.

I agree - and I listened.

If they have a message for all humankind, they could write it on the
face of the Moon, in letters five miles wide. Any alleged "revelation"
DELIVERED BY HUMAN BEINGS is presumptively fraudulent.

Absolutely. Religion should be (as I think mine is) an intensely
personal relationship between oneself and one's deity. Christianity is
indeed presumptively fraudulent.


There is nothing more "relative" than supernatural belief. What you
choose to have faith in is entirely subjective.

True.... to a point.

What writings you count as scripture is both subjective and culturally
relative. What interpretation you put on those scriptures is likewise.
Sincere believers in the "same" religion have been pacifists and
imperialists, millionaires and ascetics, Capitalists and Socialists,
polygamists and celibates. Not to mention murderers. If a believer
wants to take any particular moral position, or commit any particular
atrocity, all they have to do is convince themselves that God
approves.

Sweeping generalization, yet again. Not all believers have that
rationalization for their behavior.

This seems not to be hard, and God never shows up to tell the believer
that they are mistaken.

I most politely disagree.

Religious morality is inherently subjective and relative, because it
depends crucially on faith in invisible, untestable things.

Sweeping generality.....


When a believer says that his morality is "absolute", it means he is
resolutely determined not to apply any of his own intelligence to
moral questions.

Horsefeathers! You are not speaking of believers here - but
christians.

When he says it is universal and unchanging, it means his morality is
indifferent to the consequences of trying to follow it in the real
world. He may also mean that he is willing to apply whatever force may
be necessary to make everyone else bow down to his own chosen Lord.

Christianity - not believers. I would be more accepting of some of the
premises of this writing if the writer had decided to either speak of
believers or to speak of christians.


Prophets are those who are deluded enough, or boldly dishonest enough,
to set themselves up as the local representatives of God. Being human,
they may give out bad teachings, and may exploit their position.
Understandably jealous and fearful, they suppress questioning and
independent thinking among their followers and cast competing prophets
as devils and servants of the Cosmic Enemy, the Great Satan. From this
follows all the bloody history of religion. Instead of leading people
to treat each other as kin, religion historically has led them to
treat selected others as "enemies of God". Such enemies have been held
to deserve whatever suffering you can inflict on them and more, until
and unless they submit and obey.

Christianity - my religion does not have pastors, ministers, nor
prophets. No Satan either!


Contrary to its claim to be the source of all morality, religion has
sponsored and endorsed sectarian warfare, genocide, torture,
persecutions of lesser sorts, slavery, male supremacy, inquisitions
and thought control; even for the obedient, it has sponsored
self-censorship, self-abnegation, self-mutilation, rejection of
medical care, suppression of rational inquiry and scientific
education. Priests have been allied with kings and dictators
throughout history, using religion as a tool to keep exploited people
quiet. Religion has perpetrated a wholesale swindle on the human race,
diverting large amounts of time, thought, and wealth to appeasing a
ghost, and the ghost's local representatives. It has perverted the
field of ethics, severing it from any connection to the consequences
for real people in this world, denouncing as sinful any attempt to
apply human thought to moral questions.

Agreed - in reference to the three major religions which share a good
bit - including all mentioned above.


FOUNDATIONS OF ATHEIST ETHICS

Ethics, generally, are rules, principles, policies for behavior, with
the goal of ______ (fill in the blank).

Atheist ethics fills in the blank with something in this world. What
is the purpose of human life? We have our choice on that. The fact
that we have our choice of what to value makes atheist ethics
relative. The fact that our ultimate value is something in this world
has the advantage that we can choose to value objective things, making
our personal ethics objective. Doing X will, or will not, objectively
contribute toward our chosen goal. For foundations, theists have their
faith in invisible things.

That does not mean a theist is incapable of functioning in the real
world. Some theists have just as much reasoning ability, questioning
ability, decision-making ability, etc. as any atheist.

Atheists have the objective experience of living in this world that we
see in front of us.

So, in their view, atheists are morally superior to believers, because
THEY have a foundation for morality and believers do not. Recognize
the words - with a slight adjustment?


Where can we get "objective" ethics? Look at the consequences of
actions for real people in this world.

This is a parenting process - it is not unique to atheists.

A consequentialist system has
an ultimate goal and a lot of derivative values, which are recommended
means to that goal. An objective ethic is a consequentialist ethic
that has an ultimate goal that is objectively measureable. It then
becomes an objective question whether a particular recommended means
will in fact lead to that goal, whether another means might be more
effective. The statement "If you want X then you ought to do Y"
becomes a statement about cause-and-effect relationships that is
objectively true or false, and can be investigated by scientific
procedures.

This is stated - much more simply - in the R=C+C.


What about the choice of your ultimate goal, your ultimate value that
you are pursuing? Can we say that some goal is "better" than others,
and deserves to be adopted by everyone?

Yes, the goal should be do no harm. (LOL, couldn't resist!)

I think there is one that we can predict will be widely popular, but
there is no logical or cosmic necessity that it be adopted by
everyone.

There is a built-in "default" goal of biological life, genetic
reproductive success, also called "inclusive fitness" by biologists.
For nonhuman life, this goal could be described as "promote the health
of your family", where "health" is defined as "survival ability" and
"family" is "all who share your genes, to the degree that they share
your genes". Reproductive success is the goal that almost all living
organisms pursue, because they follow their internal urges
uncritically. Their internal urges are shaped by natural selection,
and inclusive fitness is what natural selection selects for. In short,
the default goal of biological life is to raise kids; failing that,
help your kinfolk raise kids.

If the majority of living things pursue reproduction as their ultimate
goal, by itself this implies nothing about what I ought to do. But I
think it provides useful information I may wish to consider while I am
choosing what I shall try to do.

The goal of parenting is (1) protect the child and (2) prepare the child
to survive and thrive.


Human beings are a special case in at least two ways. First, we have
self-awareness and the ability to choose our goals; inclusive fitness
is only the "default option", toward which our nature will incline us
unless we consciously choose to pursue something else. Second, humans
are more than carriers of genes; we have original thoughts, we create,
receive, modify, and transmit culture. Therefore, for human beings,
"inclusive fitness" would as legitimately include our cultural kin as
our genetic kin.

Because we are all the offspring of uncounted generations of
family-health-maximizers, we may find adopting this goal consciously
to be congenial. The goal I advocate adopting consciously is "promote
the health of your circle". The boundaries of your circle are your
choice, but it would be entirely natural to include yourself, your
genetic kin and descendants, your cultural kin and descendants. (There
are no sharp natural boundaries to kinship, either genetic or
cultural, but near kin commonly receive more concern than distant
kin.) If you have no personal interest in raising kids, or in helping
your kinfolk raise kids, then contribute something to the culture.

The goal of parenting is (1) protect the child and (2) prepare the child
to survive and thrive. Every adult is a parent..... whether
biologically or not.


"Health", defined as "survival ability", implies other derivative
values. The more knowledge you have, the more friends you have, the
more freedom, the more wealth, the more wisdom, other things being
equal, the greater your ability to survive, and promote the survival
of your circle. The fact that we have a "default goal" written into
our genes by natural selection accounts for our intuitive feelings
that certain things are "obviously" good or bad. But we don't have to
depend on intuition; logic is a better guide.

Human beings are social animals; social animals survive by cooperating
in groups. We have been living in groups for longer than we have been
human. We are more social than any other species; the largest insect
societies have a few million individuals, humans cooperate in
societies of hundreds of millions, even billions. Because we are
social animals, "Health" immediately implies "Peace" as a basic value.
Our ethics must promote the peace of our communities.

See the comments above of group living having been modified by
technological and other advances.


In THE ELEMENTS OF MORAL PHILOSOPHY, (an introductory textbook), James
Rachels writes (p. 129): "The key idea [of the Social-contract
approach to ethics] is that morally binding rules are the ones that
are necessary for social living. It is obvious... that we could not
live together very well if we did not accept rules prohibiting murder,
assault, theft, lying, breaking promises, and the like. These rules
are justified simply by showing that they are necessary if we are to
cooperate for our mutual benefit."

Do no harm.


In other words, if you want to maintain peaceful and cooperative
relations with your neighbors, don't kill, steal, lie, or break
agreements. As Shakespeare wrote, "It needs no ghost, Milord, come
from the grave, to tell us this."

Social-contract morality is the ethics of Peace. It can set the
minimum standards of right and wrong. But there are many different
possible ways a peaceful and cooperative society might function.
Beyond the ABC's of right and wrong described above, necessary to the
cohesion and cooperative functioning of any group, the ethics of
Health can provide an objective standard for comparing possible
societies. Societies can be judged better or worse according to
whether they are a "healthy" place for your kin "unto all generations"
to live in. The ethics of Health imply the political goal of
Sustainable Civilization.

MEANING

Human beings are storytelling animals. For most people, "the meaning
of life" is what larger story they think their life fits into. They
get great satisfaction from having a larger meaning for their lives. A
philosopher named Braithwaite described religion as "morals helped out
by mythology." People want a "good" story to include heroes with
goals, ideals, aspirations; to identify obstacles and challenges
against which the heroes must struggle; to offer a real hope of
victory. To provide meaning for their lives, people must regard the
story as true, or potentially true, in its essentials. You must have
good reason to hope that, if you live by the morals taught, the goals,
ideals, aspirations will be achieved in reality.

Christianity again.


Religious folk get meaning from their religion, and feel that if they
lost their religion, life would have no meaning.

Sweeping generalization - and becoming annoying.

But the stories of religion are not the only stories possible. Meaning
is the story you choose to join. There are other stories we can join,
that have the advantage of being true.

The story of life on Earth is a larger story that everybody's life
could fit into, and in fact does.

Reading the story of life on Earth has impressed me with the rarity
and value of "the way we live now". For three billion years the
highest form of life was blue-green algae. For a million years the
human species made fire and stone tools, and lived by hunting and
gathering in small tribes. For ten thousand years most of us lived by
peasant agriculture, which is no fun. It would be a great tragedy if
our civilization crashed and burned a few hundred years after
discovering the scientific method. I would like to see a civilization
based on reason and freedom last for geological ages.

Dinosaurs existed for 160 million years; mankind will be very very
lucky to reach one million. While seeing humanity burn would be sad -
it is that same scientific method which has given mankind the atomic
fire.


If our civilization is to be long-lived, we must face the challenge of
sustainability- stabilizing our population, establishing a long-lived
peace, developing forms of industry that do not poison our water and
air, forms of agriculture that do not create deserts, energy sources
that will supply us for millennia. For our long-term health, we will
also want to develop the ability to alter the orbits of the apollo
asteroids, whose orbits cross the orbit of Earth. Colonizing the solar
system would not be a bad idea, either.

Agreed.


Fairy-tales about the supernatural are not necessary to give meaning
or purpose to life. Instead of seeking a ticket to Heaven by being an
obedient slave on Earth, we can gain meaning by taking a positive role
in history, seeking to make this Earth a better place.

Opposing christianity is the simple tenet - do no harm.


THE BOUNDARIES OF MORAL CONCERN

Given that we have our choice, of our personal goal in life, what goal
shall we choose? As individuals, we can choose "life-goals" and
"legacy-goals". Life-goals are whatever would be a satisfying life for
you. This will vary according to talent and temperament. Legacy-goals
are the net effect you want your life to have on the world. They are
the last goals at which you have any chance to succeed. Considering
that accident, crime, disease, etc. leave all of us uncertain as to
our time of death, if you want your personal story to end in victory,
you will choose your actions at all times in your life to be
compatible with your desired legacy. In this way, your legacy-goal may
set limits on what you would be willing to do to achieve your
life-goals.

The ultimate source of fear and despair is death. Death is the
ultimate failure, the ultimate loss.

Death, according to my religion, is not a failure! Not a loss! Not at
all!

If you want your personal story to end in victory, what could be your
response to this prospect? The antithesis of death is health, defined
as the ability to survive. Though as individuals we shall inevitably
die sooner or later, we can survive through our genes (families) and
through our communicated thoughts (culture).

Do no harm leaves the legacy of a better society, a protected planet,
healthy children, and much more.


To the extent that you identify with your body, you will survive death
through your family of the body, i.e. those that share your genes. To
the extent that you identify with your mind, you will survive death
through your family of the mind, i.e. all those with whom you share
culture, with whom you could share your thoughts.

I won't take that to the next step.... but that next step is a simple
one, a desired one, and one in which I believe.


Joining the true story of biological evolution, we can seek to
contribute to the health of our families. Joining the true story of
cultural evolution, we can seek to contribute to the health of our
society.

Cultural evolution has led to a steady widening of the boundaries of
moral concern. The human species' development of comparatively high
intelligence, the development of language, the development of writing,
of new tools and methods, and in recent times of the scientific method
of understanding the world, has led to a great increase in the
potential value of reciprocity. "Reciprocity" here refers to the whole
network of trading relationships which are peaceful, cooperative, and
mutually beneficial. By discovering new ways of producing desired
things, other than hunting and gathering, we discovered new forms of
valuable cooperation.

Ummm, if the rosy glasses are removed, one sees the whole network of
trading relationships as being ultimately destructive; the land has
been raped in the name of "trade"; cultures have been destroyed in the
name of expanding trade; animals have been driven either into or nearly
into extinction in the name of trade. Today our air, water, soils, and
weather are being adversely affected by "peaceful, cooperative, and
mutually beneficial trade." Unless I have misread the above, I must
disagree.


For producing desired things by cooperative action, there are
advantages to having larger groups rather than smaller. There are
"economies of scale" that can be obtained only by larger groups.
Larger groups can support having a greater variety of different
products available, higher levels of specialized skill, and new types
of production that are not possible at all on smaller scales. Other
things equal, a larger group also has the advantage in intergroup
conflict.

Cultural evolution has come to wholly overshadow biological evolution.
With the continuing development of culture, the power of the human
race has multiplied and multiplied again. Peace has gotten a whole lot
better, and war has gotten a whole lot worse. It has become vastly
more advantageous to avoid conflict and maintain peaceful cooperation,
in ever-larger and more inclusive groups.

With this I agree; it would be wonderful to see it happening, but in
the real world it isn't.


So- the fact that humans are not only social but also intelligent, not
only carriers of genes but also carriers of culture, tends to make it
advantageous to push out the boundaries of moral concern, beyond the
reach supported by instinct. I think the natural limit of this process
is to include all carriers of culture, all potential cooperators, all
persons, in one society.

Beyond persons, we may even choose to include more, for at least two
reasons.

First, I would advocate including "former persons"- those who have
died, and those who have suffered brain damage. This I call the
"insurance clause" to the social contract- we are all at risk of
becoming "former persons", so we all have reason to want certain
rights of "former persons" to be protected.

Second, I would allow an "adopted honorary person" clause. If any
person wishes to adopt an animal or a "pre-person" as a member of
their own family, being responsible for it's care, training, and
behavior, I would grant the adoptee certain rights.

I am not going to touch the above two - that would be appropriate in
another post.
Pangur - nonchristian theist


A third reason for including nonpersons would be compassion. John
Rawls defined a "good person" this way: "A good person is one who has
the qualities of moral character that it would be rational for members
of a well-ordered society to want in their associates." In short, a
"good person" is a desirable neighbor. For many reasons, a
compassionate person would be a more desirable neighbor than a callous
one. We want our neighbors to have at least some degree of compassion,
but how much shall we ask for, as a matter of social mores? If we say
that a certain minimum is required to be socially acceptable, then we
must show that much compassion ourselves, which could become
expensive. A modest level would say that we should not torture animals
for fun. A higher level would require humane treatment of farm
animals, even if that interferes with maximizing profits. A still
higher level would ban hunting and promote vegetarianism. The level
required by social mores will be culturally relative, subject to
negotiation and change.

SUMMARY

Ethics are rules, principles, policies for behavior, with the goal of
______ (fill in the blank). Religious ethics fills in the blank with
something supernatural. This makes religious ethics inherently
subjective and relative, because you must choose to have faith in what
you are told, by some chosen authority, about invisible, untestable
things. Atheist ethics fills in the blank with something in this
world. We have our choice of what to value, so atheist ethics are also
relative; but if we choose to value something that is objectively
measureable, our ethics can be objective.

There is one particular choice of what we shall ultimately value, that
we can expect will be a widely popular choice across all human
societies and cultures, because it is favored by natural selection.
Because we are social animals evolved by natural selection, we would
be expected to value the health (survival-ability) of our families,
and the peace of our communities. This offers a "natural" standard of
ethics: The Good is that which leads to health, the Right is that
which leads to peace.

Our reasons for "being ethical" by this standard include kinship,
reciprocity, compassion, and the desire to have and preserve a larger
meaning for our lives.


.
User: "L. Raymond"

Title: Re: Atheist Foundations of Ethics 30 Oct 2006 11:48:03 PM
Pangur Ban wrote:

"Michelle Malkin" wrote:

http://civic.bev.net/atheistsnrv/articles/definition.html


Religious ethics fills in the blank with something supernatural.
"Pleasing God", "Getting admission to Heaven", "Achieving Nirvana",
whatever.


Or maybe something as simple and non-supernatural as do no harm.

Unfortunately, as you noted several times, the writer conflates
believers in general with Christians in specific and comes off sounding
ignorant in many places. That's a very common problem here in a.a. I
know I try very hard to be specific and use "fundies" when I'm angry at
the fundamentalist Christians, but it's very easy to be careless and
just write "Christians".

that he/she/it wants your obedience,


christianity

Not just Christianity. There are many religions in which the prime
deity expects devotion.

and that for some reason this god
cannot or will not speak to you directly, but WILL speak to this
self-proclaimed authority.


christianity

High priests aren't exclusive to Christianity.

You must have faith that your chosen
authority is actually hearing from this god and not from some other
invisible spirit, some mischievous or malevolent ghost or demon.


christianity - and demons, ghosts, etc do not exist

There is as much evidence for demons and ghosts as there is for any
god, so your assertion doesn't really make sense.

You must have faith that your prophet is not making it all up out of
whole cloth, and is reporting accurately what this invisible spirit is
saying.


christianity

High priests & prophets aren't exclusive to Christianity.


If your chosen prohet lived centuries ago, you have to hope that the
words of this prophet were recorded, copied, and translated accurately
for, as Jeremiah said, "actually the lying pen of the scribes has
handled it falsely". (Jer. 8:8)


christianity

Ancient scriptures aren't exclusive to Christianity.

Is this Yahveh really the Creator of the Universe,
as he claims, or is he perhaps some local ghost? Perhaps Yahveh is
lying, as he has sometimes done. (1 Kings 22, 2 Chronicles 18, Ezekiel
14:9, 2 Thessolonians 2:11-12.) Perhaps Yahveh is giving bad laws
deliberately, as he boasted in Ezekiel 20:25. All this has to be
decided subjectively.


Christianity yet again.

In this case, the author has made it very clear he's referring to both
Judaism and Christianity.

Just as "faith" consists of believing what you are told,


No, it does not. Generalization again.

The author is correct. That's the definition of faith, "belief
without evidence"

But a minute of thought will show that morality is not the same as
obedience. We all know of examples where people who were obeying
orders have done evil things, and other examples where people who were
rebelling against authority have done good things.

We all start out as children,


Brilliant! Absolutely brilliant! I never ever had thought that we all
were children once. Sheesh!

Your sarcasm is out of place here. The author is simply offering a
simplified step-by-step progression of the development of morality. He
had to start somewhere.

and for the same reason, that they are predisposed to learn language.
Both language and ethics are vitally important tools for living, for a
species that survives by cooperating in groups. Religion hijacks this
childhood instinct, substituting an invisible cosmic parent for the
earthly ones.


That's silly! Children learn about the "cosmic parent" from the adults
who raise them! Children are indifferent to religion if that is the way
the adults raise them. Children learn to cooperate in groups - or not -
from the adults who raise them. Religion has only a peripheral effect.

No, if the children are taught there is a magical force in the
universe that is keeping an eye on them and they either should or have
to acknowledge it in some specific way, they're being taught a religion,
whether that word is used or not. A "cosmic parent" exists only within
the framework of religion, if there is an expectation of worship or
acknowledgement, or of mythology, if it's presented as just a story.

Religious morality consists of obedience to the instructions of this
cosmic parent, as reported and interpreted by whoever is bold enough
(crazy enough, dishonest enough) to do so.

Back to christianity again. Wish the writer would decide to either
address christians or address theists.... and not skip back and forth.

Powerful gods who serve as father or mother figures aren't exclusive
to Christianity.

Religion teaches a child's view of ethics, that "being good" means
"obeying your parent". It gives a moral blank check to those bold
enough, dishonest enough, to claim to speak for God.


Christianity - with a bit of believer thrown in.

Powerful gods who serve as father or mother figures aren't exclusive
to Christianity.

There is nothing more "relative" than supernatural belief. What you
choose to have faith in is entirely subjective.


True.... to a point.

What is that point? Faith is by definition subjective. If there were
objective evidence for something, it would become a matter of knowledge.

What writings you count as scripture is both subjective and culturally
relative. What interpretation you put on those scriptures is likewise.
Sincere believers in the "same" religion have been pacifists and
imperialists, millionaires and ascetics, Capitalists and Socialists,
polygamists and celibates. Not to mention murderers. If a believer
wants to take any particular moral position, or commit any particular
atrocity, all they have to do is convince themselves that God
approves.


Sweeping generalization, yet again. Not all believers have that
rationalization for their behavior.

The author didn't say they do, simply that it's an option available to
them, and no one can call them liars if they say their god told them to
do X.


When a believer says that his morality is "absolute", it means he is
resolutely determined not to apply any of his own intelligence to
moral questions.


Horsefeathers! You are not speaking of believers here - but
christians.

Dogma isn't exclusive to Christianity.

When he says it is universal and unchanging, it means his morality is
indifferent to the consequences of trying to follow it in the real
world. He may also mean that he is willing to apply whatever force may
be necessary to make everyone else bow down to his own chosen Lord.


Christianity - not believers. I would be more accepting of some of the
premises of this writing if the writer had decided to either speak of
believers or to speak of christians.

Granted the author is sloppy with his references, but you are, too,
when you make your own sweeping statements that many of the author's
points apply only to Christians. You simply err in the other direction,
of trying to be too specific.

Prophets are those who are deluded enough, or boldly dishonest enough,
to set themselves up as the local representatives of God. Being human,
they may give out bad teachings, and may exploit their position.
Understandably jealous and fearful, they suppress questioning and
independent thinking among their followers and cast competing prophets
as devils and servants of the Cosmic Enemy, the Great Satan.


Christianity - my religion does not have pastors, ministers, nor
prophets. No Satan either!

Prophets, priests, scriptures and a force in opposition to the primary
deity aren't exclusive to Christianity.

Contrary to its claim to be the source of all morality, religion has
sponsored and endorsed sectarian warfare, genocide, torture,
persecutions of lesser sorts, slavery, male supremacy, inquisitions
and thought control; even for the obedient, it has sponsored
self-censorship, self-abnegation, self-mutilation, rejection of
medical care, suppression of rational inquiry and scientific
education. Priests have been allied with kings and dictators
throughout history, using religion as a tool to keep exploited people
quiet.


Agreed - in reference to the three major religions which share a good
bit - including all mentioned above.

Sectarian violence and a lust for power aren't exclusive to
Christianity, Judaism or Islam, which are what I assume you mean by
"the" three major religions.

In THE ELEMENTS OF MORAL PHILOSOPHY, (an introductory textbook), James
Rachels writes (p. 129): "The key idea [of the Social-contract
approach to ethics] is that morally binding rules are the ones that
are necessary for social living. It is obvious... that we could not
live together very well if we did not accept rules prohibiting murder,
assault, theft, lying, breaking promises, and the like. These rules
are justified simply by showing that they are necessary if we are to
cooperate for our mutual benefit."


Do no harm.

You do come across as rather smug, giving the impression your version
of the wiccan mantra is the only thing that counts as "good" morality.
Is that intentional?

You must have
good reason to hope that, if you live by the morals taught, the goals,
ideals, aspirations will be achieved in reality.


Christianity again.

Heroic mythology isn't exclusive to Christianity.

Religious folk get meaning from their religion, and feel that if they
lost their religion, life would have no meaning.


Sweeping generalization - and becoming annoying.

Like your insistence that Christianity is the only religion with
prophets, mythology, scriptures etc.?

Reading the story of life on Earth has impressed me with the rarity
and value of "the way we live now". For three billion years the
highest form of life was blue-green algae. For a million years the
human species made fire and stone tools, and lived by hunting and
gathering in small tribes. For ten thousand years most of us lived by
peasant agriculture, which is no fun. It would be a great tragedy if
our civilization crashed and burned a few hundred years after
discovering the scientific method. I would like to see a civilization
based on reason and freedom last for geological ages.


Dinosaurs existed for 160 million years; mankind will be very very
lucky to reach one million.

Our human ancestors were alive and kicking millions of years ago, so I
guess we've already been very, very lucky.

While seeing humanity burn would be sad -
it is that same scientific method which has given mankind the atomic
fire.

The scientific method has given us wonderful tools. Whether or not
we're able to master them before the mindlessly dogmatic haters in our
world make use of them is outside the realm of science.

If you want your personal story to end in victory, what could be your
response to this prospect? The antithesis of death is health, defined
as the ability to survive. Though as individuals we shall inevitably
die sooner or later, we can survive through our genes (families) and
through our communicated thoughts (culture).


Do no harm leaves the legacy of a better society, a protected planet,
healthy children, and much more.

OK, let's apply your favorite maxim to real life. A criminal is about
to kill a helpless victim. The criminal is so much bigger, stronger and
skilled in combat than you that the only way you could stop him would be
to grab a rock, brick or other weapon and strike him hard enough to
disable him. If you personally do no harm, the victim dies. If you
harm the criminal, the victim lives.
You may say that doing harm is relative, but then we leave behind the
idea that "do no harm" is an objective basis for morality. I know you
can't want to argue that "do no harm" is shorthand for a longer, more
specific set of guidelines about what sort of actions are acceptable
when, because this message of yours is basically all about being annoyed
with someone for not being specific about which religion bothers him.
So what do you do?

To the extent that you identify with your body, you will survive death
through your family of the body, i.e. those that share your genes. To
the extent that you identify with your mind, you will survive death
through your family of the mind, i.e. all those with whom you share
culture, with whom you could share your thoughts.


I won't take that to the next step.... but that next step is a simple
one, a desired one, and one in which I believe.

And what step is that, that a soul survives death?
--
L. Raymond
.
User: "Pangur Ban"

Title: Re: Atheist Foundations of Ethics 31 Oct 2006 07:20:18 AM
"L. Raymond" <badaddress@mylinuxisp.com> wrote in
news:5f4vxb04eb90.1mvookkdmexd6$.dlg@40tude.net:

Pangur Ban wrote:

"Michelle Malkin" wrote:

http://civic.bev.net/atheistsnrv/articles/definition.html


Religious ethics fills in the blank with something supernatural.
"Pleasing God", "Getting admission to Heaven", "Achieving Nirvana",
whatever.


Or maybe something as simple and non-supernatural as do no harm.


Unfortunately, as you noted several times, the writer conflates
believers in general with Christians in specific and comes off
sounding ignorant in many places. That's a very common problem here
in a.a. I know I try very hard to be specific and use "fundies" when
I'm angry at the fundamentalist Christians, but it's very easy to be
careless and just write "Christians".

To walk the fine line between specifics and generalities is difficult.
When emotion is added, the line becomes even thinner.


that he/she/it wants your obedience,


christianity


Not just Christianity. There are many religions in which the prime
deity expects devotion.

However, christianity usually the first which comes to mind to the
majority of readers. Besides, my point was, as you noted, the tendency
of the writer to use "believers" with obvious references to
christianity.



and that for some reason this god
cannot or will not speak to you directly, but WILL speak to this
self-proclaimed authority.


christianity


High priests aren't exclusive to Christianity.

Voodoo did come to my mind upon first reading the statement.... but
"priest" in this day and climate calls to mind catholic priests.


You must have faith that your chosen
authority is actually hearing from this god and not from some other
invisible spirit, some mischievous or malevolent ghost or demon.


christianity - and demons, ghosts, etc do not exist


There is as much evidence for demons and ghosts as there is for any
god, so your assertion doesn't really make sense.

I am a theist. I believe in a deity. I feel no need to prove my
beliefs to you or any one else. I believe in what I choose to believe,
as I tell and have told christians who take exception to my beliefs.


You must have faith that your prophet is not making it all up out of
whole cloth, and is reporting accurately what this invisible spirit
is saying.


christianity


High priests & prophets aren't exclusive to Christianity.

However, christianity usually the first which comes to mind to the
majority of readers. Besides, my point was, as you noted, the tendency
of the writer to use "believers" with obvious references to
christianity.



If your chosen prohet lived centuries ago, you have to hope that the
words of this prophet were recorded, copied, and translated
accurately for, as Jeremiah said, "actually the lying pen of the
scribes has handled it falsely". (Jer. 8:8)


christianity


Ancient scriptures aren't exclusive to Christianity.

However, christianity usually the first which comes to mind to the
majority of readers. Besides, my point was, as you noted, the tendency
of the writer to use "believers" with obvious references to
christianity.


Is this Yahveh really the Creator of the Universe, as he claims, or
is he perhaps some local ghost? Perhaps Yahveh is lying, as he has
sometimes done. (1 Kings 22, 2 Chronicles 18, Ezekiel 14:9, 2
Thessolonians 2:11-12.) Perhaps Yahveh is giving bad laws
deliberately, as he boasted in Ezekiel 20:25. All this has to be
decided subjectively.


Christianity yet again.


In this case, the author has made it very clear he's referring to
both
Judaism and Christianity.

Judeo-christian scripture is of no interest to me. I have no idea, and
frankly don't care, which scripture is in the NT or OT. As both are in
the bible, assuming christianity was a logical assumption. *shrug*


Just as "faith" consists of believing what you are told,


No, it does not. Generalization again.


The author is correct. That's the definition of faith, "belief
without evidence"

Agreed with the definition; disagree that faith means following what one
is told. No one has "told" me what to believe.


But a minute of thought will show that morality is not the same as
obedience. We all know of examples where people who were obeying
orders have done evil things, and other examples where people who
were rebelling against authority have done good things.

We all start out as children,


Brilliant! Absolutely brilliant! I never ever had thought that we
all were children once. Sheesh!


Your sarcasm is out of place here. The author is simply offering a
simplified step-by-step progression of the development of morality.
He had to start somewhere.

Agreed; however, this step-by-step progression could have been written
better. When I read that first sentence of this section, I thought of
two - perhaps three - ways in which the same idea could have been
written without the "We all start out as children,".


and for the same reason, that they are predisposed to learn
language. Both language and ethics are vitally important tools for
living, for a species that survives by cooperating in groups.
Religion hijacks this childhood instinct, substituting an invisible
cosmic parent for the earthly ones.


That's silly! Children learn about the "cosmic parent" from the
adults who raise them! Children are indifferent to religion if that
is the way the adults raise them. Children learn to cooperate in
groups - or not - from the adults who raise them. Religion has only
a peripheral effect.


No, if the children are taught there is a magical force in the
universe that is keeping an eye on them and they either should or have
to acknowledge it in some specific way, they're being taught a
religion, whether that word is used or not. A "cosmic parent" exists
only within the framework of religion, if there is an expectation of
worship or acknowledgement, or of mythology, if it's presented as just
a story.

I still disagree with the statement that religion hijacks the earthly
adults. Children are not born following a religion; they must learn
that religion. The earthly adults remain the prime authorities in
children's lives for varying lengths of time; the "cosmic parent"
enters as an authority figure much later - and, imo, basically for
fundamentalists.


Religious morality consists of obedience to the instructions of this
cosmic parent, as reported and interpreted by whoever is bold enough
(crazy enough, dishonest enough) to do so.


Back to christianity again. Wish the writer would decide to either
address christians or address theists.... and not skip back and
forth.


Powerful gods who serve as father or mother figures aren't exclusive
to Christianity.

However, christianity usually the first which comes to mind to the
majority of readers. Besides, my point was, as you noted, the tendency
of the writer to use "believers" with obvious references to
christianity.


Religion teaches a child's view of ethics, that "being good" means
"obeying your parent". It gives a moral blank check to those bold
enough, dishonest enough, to claim to speak for God.


Christianity - with a bit of believer thrown in.


Powerful gods who serve as father or mother figures aren't exclusive
to Christianity.

However, christianity usually the first which comes to mind to the
majority of readers. Besides, my point was, as you noted, the tendency
of the writer to use "believers" with obvious references to
christianity.


There is nothing more "relative" than supernatural belief. What you
choose to have faith in is entirely subjective.


True.... to a point.


What is that point? Faith is by definition subjective. If there
were
objective evidence for something, it would become a matter of
knowledge.

Precisely.


What writings you count as scripture is both subjective and
culturally relative. What interpretation you put on those scriptures
is likewise. Sincere believers in the "same" religion have been
pacifists and imperialists, millionaires and ascetics, Capitalists
and Socialists, polygamists and celibates. Not to mention murderers.
If a believer wants to take any particular moral position, or commit
any particular atrocity, all they have to do is convince themselves
that God approves.


Sweeping generalization, yet again. Not all believers have that
rationalization for their behavior.


The author didn't say they do, simply that it's an option available
to
them, and no one can call them liars if they say their god told them
to do X.

The writer did not present this as an option; it was a flat statement.
Also, my judgement as to sweeping generalization stands, as does my
noting of exceptions to the statement being applied to "believers".



When a believer says that his morality is "absolute", it means he is
resolutely determined not to apply any of his own intelligence to
moral questions.


Horsefeathers! You are not speaking of believers here - but
christians.


Dogma isn't exclusive to Christianity.

My objection again was to "believers" and what they ALL believe. If the
writer was making his comment about believers who have dogma and
slavishly follow that dogma, that should have been clearly stated. One
cannot making sweeping statements about believers as they vary as much
as atheists do. Not all believers appreciate being lumped in, tarred
by, or ignored in sweeping generalizations.


When he says it is universal and unchanging, it means his morality
is indifferent to the consequences of trying to follow it in the
real world. He may also mean that he is willing to apply whatever
force may be necessary to make everyone else bow down to his own
chosen Lord.


Christianity - not believers. I would be more accepting of some of
the premises of this writing if the writer had decided to either
speak of believers or to speak of christians.


Granted the author is sloppy with his references, but you are, too,
when you make your own sweeping statements that many of the author's
points apply only to Christians. You simply err in the other
direction, of trying to be too specific.

No, I err in trying to make the point over and over that not all
believers fit the writer's descriptions. I chose christianity as my
generalization as most people will think of christianity when reading
the post. You, I think, were the one who suggested exceptions to my
statements which indicated I should have been more specific and given
readers a list of religions which have priests, scripture, dogma, etc.
Now which do you wish? More specificity? Or a limitation to the
religion with which the majority of readers are familiar?


Prophets are those who are deluded enough, or boldly dishonest
enough, to set themselves up as the local representatives of God.
Being human, they may give out bad teachings, and may exploit their
position. Understandably jealous and fearful, they suppress
questioning and independent thinking among their followers and cast
competing prophets as devils and servants of the Cosmic Enemy, the
Great Satan.


Christianity - my religion does not have pastors, ministers, nor
prophets. No Satan either!


Prophets, priests, scriptures and a force in opposition to the
primary
deity aren't exclusive to Christianity.

See my reply immediately above.


Contrary to its claim to be the source of all morality, religion has
sponsored and endorsed sectarian warfare, genocide, torture,
persecutions of lesser sorts, slavery, male supremacy, inquisitions
and thought control; even for the obedient, it has sponsored
self-censorship, self-abnegation, self-mutilation, rejection of
medical care, suppression of rational inquiry and scientific
education. Priests have been allied with kings and dictators
throughout history, using religion as a tool to keep exploited
people quiet.


Agreed - in reference to the three major religions which share a good
bit - including all mentioned above.


Sectarian violence and a lust for power aren't exclusive to
Christianity, Judaism or Islam, which are what I assume you mean by
"the" three major religions.

Yes, and the point was that my religion is not in the above sweeping
generalization.


In THE ELEMENTS OF MORAL PHILOSOPHY, (an introductory textbook),
James Rachels writes (p. 129): "The key idea [of the Social-contract
approach to ethics] is that morally binding rules are the ones that
are necessary for social living. It is obvious... that we could not
live together very well if we did not accept rules prohibiting
murder, assault, theft, lying, breaking promises, and the like.
These rules are justified simply by showing that they are necessary
if we are to cooperate for our mutual benefit."


Do no harm.


You do come across as rather smug, giving the impression your
version
of the wiccan mantra is the only thing that counts as "good" morality.
Is that intentional?

"smug" as in sarcasm?
The wicca mantra is a handy and short form of my much more complicated
beliefs. ".....we could not live together very well if we did not
accept rules prohibiting murder,

assault, theft, lying, breaking promises, and the like." These are
all behaviors which cause harm.

Using the wiccan mantra was simpler than being verbose.



You must have good reason to hope that, if you live by the morals
taught, the goals, ideals, aspirations will be achieved in reality.


Christianity again.


Heroic mythology isn't exclusive to Christianity.

Specificity or generalization.... which do you wish?


Religious folk get meaning from their religion, and feel that if
they lost their religion, life would have no meaning.


Sweeping generalization - and becoming annoying.


Like your insistence that Christianity is the only religion with
prophets, mythology, scriptures etc.?

Once more, I object to the inclusion of the wide variety of believers
into one sweeping statement. Frankly, I don't care what christianity
has or has not; it does, however, fit quite well the generalizations.
Repeating, I could have given lists of religions having prophets,
scripture, priests, etc.... for which I am certain I would have been
castigated for being too specific and for omitting some religion.
Specificity or generalization.... which do you wish?


Reading the story of life on Earth has impressed me with the rarity
and value of "the way we live now". For three billion years the
highest form of life was blue-green algae. For a million years the
human species made fire and stone tools, and lived by hunting and
gathering in small tribes. For ten thousand years most of us lived
by peasant agriculture, which is no fun. It would be a great tragedy
if our civilization crashed and burned a few hundred years after
discovering the scientific method. I would like to see a
civilization based on reason and freedom last for geological ages.


Dinosaurs existed for 160 million years; mankind will be very very
lucky to reach one million.


Our human ancestors were alive and kicking millions of years ago, so
I
guess we've already been very, very lucky.

That one is indeed mine... I should have been specific and said homo
sapiens.


While seeing humanity burn would be sad - it is that same scientific
method which has given mankind the atomic fire.


The scientific method has given us wonderful tools. Whether or not
we're able to master them before the mindlessly dogmatic haters in our
world make use of them is outside the realm of science.

Agreed. Scientific method has provided much... and then politicians and
others take over those discoveries and wield them too often with no
thought of their consequences.


If you want your personal story to end in victory, what could be
your response to this prospect? The antithesis of death is health,
defined as the ability to survive. Though as individuals we shall
inevitably die sooner or later, we can survive through our genes
(families) and through our communicated thoughts (culture).


Do no harm leaves the legacy of a better society, a protected planet,
healthy children, and much more.


OK, let's apply your favorite maxim to real life. A criminal is
about
to kill a helpless victim. The criminal is so much bigger, stronger
and skilled in combat than you that the only way you could stop him
would be to grab a rock, brick or other weapon and strike him hard
enough to disable him. If you personally do no harm, the victim dies.
If you harm the criminal, the victim lives.

That is an easy one; the criminal is doing the most harm. Stop
him/her. My causing harm to the criminal (your judgement word) is
mitigated by the greater harm to the potential victim. I would still
have to deal afterwards with the harm I did cause, but that would be a
personal issue.

You may say that doing harm is relative, but then we leave behind
the
idea that "do no harm" is an objective basis for morality. I know you
can't want to argue that "do no harm" is shorthand for a longer, more
specific set of guidelines about what sort of actions are acceptable
when, because this message of yours is basically all about being
annoyed with someone for not being specific about which religion
bothers him. So what do you do?

No, my message is not, and has not been, about the writer not being
specific about which religion bothers him. It has been an attempt - I
now realize I could have made much more succinctly - to simply add words
like "more" or "most" or "some" to his statements about believers. Had
he done so I likely would have read the whole post with interest and
gone on to other topics without making a single comment.


To the extent that you identify with your body, you will survive
death through your family of the body, i.e. those that share your
genes. To the extent that you identify with your mind, you will
survive death through your family of the mind, i.e. all those with
whom you share culture, with whom you could share your thoughts.


I won't take that to the next step.... but that next step is a simple
one, a desired one, and one in which I believe.


And what step is that, that a soul survives death?

I hereby plead the fifth amendment.
Besides, imo, a discussion of my beliefs is irrelevant on A.A I am not
here to "push" my beliefs; I am here for the intelligent and clever
discussions on many topics. Well, I must be honest; I do also enjoy
watching the group respond to the fundies who post to A.A Some atheists
say things my religion prohibits me from saying, but that doesn't mean I
can't get a laugh from them or give a nod of appreciation.
Pangur - nonchristian theist
.
User: "L. Raymond"

Title: Re: Atheist Foundations of Ethics 01 Nov 2006 04:15:47 PM
Pangur Ban wrote:

However, christianity usually the first which comes to mind to the
majority of readers. Besides, my point was, as you noted, the tendency
of the writer to use "believers" with obvious references to
christianity.

I left in a number of paragraphs followed by your one word comment
"Christianity" so that I could point out the specific thing (priest,
dogma etc) you were making the more general complaint about. One the
other hand, you have cut and pasted the exact same parahraph over and
over for no necessary reason except, maybe, because you thought it was
clever. I didn't bother to read past the third or fourth repetition.
I fail to see why we'd cross paths again but if it happens, I hope
you'll choose substance over cuteness.
--
L. Raymond
.




User: "Greywolf"

Title: Re: Atheist Foundations of Ethics 31 Oct 2006 01:39:21 PM
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:nqidnZkUeZblBdvYnZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@comcast.com...

http://civic.bev.net/atheistsnrv/articles/definition.html


ATHEIST FOUNDATIONS OF ETHICS
John B. Hodges, March 12, 2006.
INTRODUCTION
In the United States, evangelists often claim that atheists have no basis
for morality, no "foundations" for ethics. This claim goes back at least
as far as the Apostle Paul.

Many examples could be given of this claim, by historical and contemporary
writers. Most famous is the character in the novel by Dostoyevsky, who
says in essence that "If God does not exist, then everything is
permitted." The claim is that for those without a supernatural basis for
morality, all morality must be relative. All is permissible.

These evangelists also imply, and sometimes say outright, that those who
believe in a god are more ethical than nonbelievers. "For theists,
morality isn't relative. There is a standard by which to judge such
things."

So, in their view, believers are morally superior to atheists, because
THEY have a foundation for morality and WE do not. Not to mention the
obvious, that they MUST be morally superior, because THEY are going to
Heaven while WE are not.

So, are they right? Do theists have better foundations for their ethics
than atheists do?

WHAT IS "ETHICS"?

Ethics, generally, are rules, principles, policies for behavior, with the
goal of ______ (fill in the blank).

Religious ethics fills in the blank with something supernatural. "Pleasing
God", "Getting admission to Heaven", "Achieving Nirvana", whatever.

Atheist ethics fills in the blank with something in this world. What is
the purpose of human life? We have our choice on that. "Promoting the
health and happiness of my family, friends, adopted circle, and our
descendants." "Contributing to the long-run survival of human
civilization". "Maximizing my lifetime total of pleasure." There are a
million possibilities.

"FOUNDATIONS" OF RELIGIOUS ETHICS

Religious morality is based on faith. Faith is, ultimately, believing what
you are told, by someone whom you have chosen to regard as an authority.
Your chosen authority tells you about invisible things, Heaven and Hell
and God, and about what this God wants you to do and not do.

Faith is required, to believe that this invisible god actually exists,
that he/she/it wants your obedience, and that for some reason this god
cannot or will not speak to you directly, but WILL speak to this
self-proclaimed authority. You must have faith that your chosen authority
is actually hearing from this god and not from some other invisible
spirit, some mischievous or malevolent ghost or demon. You must have faith
that your prophet is not making it all up out of whole cloth, and is
reporting accurately what this invisible spirit is saying. If your chosen
prohet lived centuries ago, you have to hope that the words of this
prophet were recorded, copied, and translated accurately for, as Jeremiah
said, "actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely".
(Jer. 8:8)

If someone calls you on the telephone and says they are working for a good
cause, what reason do you have to believe them? Last year Americans were
taken for $40 Billion dollars by fraudulent telephone callers. If you know
someone face to face in some OTHER way, and you then recognize their voice
over the phone, then you have reason to trust what they say; but a
stranger calling could be anyone. So, let us assume that the Biblical
prophets are honorable men; all, all honorable men. A prophet hears a
voice coming out of the air, out of a burning bush, or whatever, and the
voice says: "I am Yahveh, King of the Universe. I am the Creator of all
things." How do they know, how CAN they know, whether this Yahveh
character is telling the truth? We don't even know if this is the real
Yahveh, much less the real Creator of the Universe. We don't know if it
was the same voice speaking to different prophets. The voice could be some
imp or sprite about three inches tall, playing a practical joke. It could
be a demon with darker plans. Is this Yahveh really the Creator of the
Universe, as he claims, or is he perhaps some local ghost? Perhaps Yahveh
is lying, as he has sometimes done. (1 Kings 22, 2 Chronicles 18, Ezekiel
14:9, 2 Thessolonians 2:11-12.) Perhaps Yahveh is giving bad laws
deliberately, as he boasted in Ezekiel 20:25. All this has to be decided
subjectively.

Religious ethics comes down to obedience to (allegedly divine) authority.
Just as "faith" consists of believing what you are told, religious ethics
consists of doing what you are told. But a minute of thought will show
that morality is not the same as obedience. We all know of examples where
people who were obeying orders have done evil things, and other examples
where people who were rebelling against authority have done good things.

We all start out as children, and we first learn morality by instruction
from our parents. We know what is right and wrong "because our parents say
so." For a small child, morality is nothing other than obedience to
parents. This is necessary and proper, because the child does not have the
understanding or perspective needed to live by a rational morality. Humans
are a social species, we have been living in groups for longer than we
have been human. Children are predisposed to learn morality and social
customs in the same way, and for the same reason, that they are
predisposed to learn language. Both language and ethics are vitally
important tools for living, for a species that survives by cooperating in
groups. Religion hijacks this childhood instinct, substituting an
invisible cosmic parent for the earthly ones. Religious morality consists
of obedience to the instructions of this cosmic parent, as reported and
interpreted by whoever is bold enough (crazy enough, dishonest enough) to
do so.

Religion teaches a child's view of ethics, that "being good" means
"obeying your parent". It gives a moral blank check to those bold enough,
dishonest enough, to claim to speak for God.

If there WERE any Cosmic Parent, it would not need human messengers; it
could speak directly to whomever it wished. If a divine being wants me to
do something, they should tell me, not you. If they have a message for all
humankind, they could write it on the face of the Moon, in letters five
miles wide. Any alleged "revelation" DELIVERED BY HUMAN BEINGS is
presumptively fraudulent.

There is nothing more "relative" than supernatural belief. What you choose
to have faith in is entirely subjective. What writings you count as
scripture is both subjective and culturally relative. What interpretation
you put on those scriptures is likewise. Sincere believers in the "same"
religion have been pacifists and imperialists, millionaires and ascetics,
Capitalists and Socialists, polygamists and celibates. Not to mention
murderers. If a believer wants to take any particular moral position, or
commit any particular atrocity, all they have to do is convince themselves
that God approves. This seems not to be hard, and God never shows up to
tell the believer that they are mistaken. Religious morality is inherently
subjective and relative, because it depends crucially on faith in
invisible, untestable things.

When a believer says that his morality is "absolute", it means he is
resolutely determined not to apply any of his own intelligence to moral
questions. When he says it is universal and unchanging, it means his
morality is indifferent to the consequences of trying to follow it in the
real world. He may also mean that he is willing to apply whatever force
may be necessary to make everyone else bow down to his own chosen Lord.

Prophets are those who are deluded enough, or boldly dishonest enough, to
set themselves up as the local representatives of God. Being human, they
may give out bad teachings, and may exploit their position. Understandably
jealous and fearful, they suppress questioning and independent thinking
among their followers and cast competing prophets as devils and servants
of the Cosmic Enemy, the Great Satan. From this follows all the bloody
history of religion. Instead of leading people to treat each other as kin,
religion historically has led them to treat selected others as "enemies of
God". Such enemies have been held to deserve whatever suffering you can
inflict on them and more, until and unless they submit and obey.

Contrary to its claim to be the source of all morality, religion has
sponsored and endorsed sectarian warfare, genocide, torture, persecutions
of lesser sorts, slavery, male supremacy, inquisitions and thought
control; even for the obedient, it has sponsored self-censorship,
self-abnegation, self-mutilation, rejection of medical care, suppression
of rational inquiry and scientific education. Priests have been allied
with kings and dictators throughout history, using religion as a tool to
keep exploited people quiet. Religion has perpetrated a wholesale swindle
on the human race, diverting large amounts of time, thought, and wealth to
appeasing a ghost, and the ghost's local representatives. It has perverted
the field of ethics, severing it from any connection to the consequences
for real people in this world, denouncing as sinful any attempt to apply
human thought to moral questions.

FOUNDATIONS OF ATHEIST ETHICS

Ethics, generally, are rules, principles, policies for behavior, with the
goal of ______ (fill in the blank).

Atheist ethics fills in the blank with something in this world. What is
the purpose of human life? We have our choice on that. The fact that we
have our choice of what to value makes atheist ethics relative. The fact
that our ultimate value is something in this world has the advantage that
we can choose to value objective things, making our personal ethics
objective. Doing X will, or will not, objectively contribute toward our
chosen goal. For foundations, theists have their faith in invisible
things. Atheists have the objective experience of living in this world
that we see in front of us.

Where can we get "objective" ethics? Look at the consequences of actions
for real people in this world. A consequentialist system has an ultimate
goal and a lot of derivative values, which are recommended means to that
goal. An objective ethic is a consequentialist ethic that has an ultimate
goal that is objectively measureable. It then becomes an objective
question whether a particular recommended means will in fact lead to that
goal, whether another means might be more effective. The statement "If you
want X then you ought to do Y" becomes a statement about cause-and-effect
relationships that is objectively true or false, and can be investigated
by scientific procedures.

What about the choice of your ultimate goal, your ultimate value that you
are pursuing? Can we say that some goal is "better" than others, and
deserves to be adopted by everyone? I think there is one that we can
predict will be widely popular, but there is no logical or cosmic
necessity that it be adopted by everyone.

There is a built-in "default" goal of biological life, genetic
reproductive success, also called "inclusive fitness" by biologists. For
nonhuman life, this goal could be described as "promote the health of your
family", where "health" is defined as "survival ability" and