| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"societopia.net" |
| Date: |
12 Jun 2005 09:30:03 PM |
| Object: |
Atheist leaders' capacity to govern |
We often question what would be the impact, if any, of a leader's religious
background on his decisions in defining public policies? How about atheist
leaders? Can one predict their capacity to govern based on their ethics and
values?
How do atheists react towards difference?
What kind of language they use when they do not like something?
What kind of thoughts they entertain when they meet a differing will (either
a political opponent or a citizen critical of their policies)?
Can an atheist leader be trusted to separate his rage at any believing
person from his duty to act with civility in a public position?
Where do their drive the values that can guide their actions from?
God bless you,
www.societopia.net
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist leaders' capacity to govern |
12 Jun 2005 10:05:17 PM |
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"societopia.net" <societopia@societopia.net> wrote in
news:Lc6re.1661479$8l.1636210@pd7tw1no:
We often question what would be the impact, if any, of a leader's
religious background on his decisions in defining public policies?
How about atheist leaders? Can one predict their capacity to govern
based on their ethics and values?
Do Christians exhibit passive-aggressive behavior when confronted with
different opinions?
How do atheists react towards difference?
Do Christians always attack people who don't believe as they do?
What kind of language they use when they do not like something?
Do Christians get all bent out of shape when their beliefs are
challenged?
What kind of thoughts they entertain when they meet a differing will
(either a political opponent or a citizen critical of their policies)?
Do Christians *have* thoughts?
Can an atheist leader be trusted to separate his rage at any believing
person from his duty to act with civility in a public position?
Can a Christian be expected to act out his rage with passive-aggressive
behavior?
Where do their drive the values that can guide their actions from?
Where do Christians get off criticizing their betters?
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Men of learning suspect it little, and ignore it mostly.
-- H.P. Lovecraft, "Hypnos"
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| User: "DanielSan" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist leaders' capacity to govern |
12 Jun 2005 10:17:15 PM |
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Fred Stone wrote:
"societopia.net" <societopia@societopia.net> wrote in
news:Lc6re.1661479$8l.1636210@pd7tw1no:
We often question what would be the impact, if any, of a leader's
religious background on his decisions in defining public policies?
How about atheist leaders? Can one predict their capacity to govern
based on their ethics and values?
Do Christians exhibit passive-aggressive behavior when confronted with
different opinions?
How do atheists react towards difference?
Do Christians always attack people who don't believe as they do?
What kind of language they use when they do not like something?
Do Christians get all bent out of shape when their beliefs are
challenged?
What kind of thoughts they entertain when they meet a differing will
(either a political opponent or a citizen critical of their policies)?
Do Christians *have* thoughts?
Can an atheist leader be trusted to separate his rage at any believing
person from his duty to act with civility in a public position?
Can a Christian be expected to act out his rage with passive-aggressive
behavior?
Where do their drive the values that can guide their actions from?
Where do Christians get off criticizing their betters?
Fred, can I request something of you? Can we no longer converse about
politics and center on our difference (you being an ignorant shmuck and
me being an arrogant ***** with no sense of reality) and instead,
focus on our similiarities?
We both find alt.atheism Chrisitians to be morons. ;-)
.
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist leaders' capacity to govern |
12 Jun 2005 10:23:56 PM |
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On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 03:17:15 GMT, DanielSan <daniel-san@myrealbox.com>
wrote:
Fred Stone wrote:
"societopia.net" <societopia@societopia.net> wrote in
news:Lc6re.1661479$8l.1636210@pd7tw1no:
We often question what would be the impact, if any, of a leader's
religious background on his decisions in defining public policies?
How about atheist leaders? Can one predict their capacity to govern
based on their ethics and values?
Do Christians exhibit passive-aggressive behavior when confronted with
different opinions?
How do atheists react towards difference?
Do Christians always attack people who don't believe as they do?
What kind of language they use when they do not like something?
Do Christians get all bent out of shape when their beliefs are
challenged?
What kind of thoughts they entertain when they meet a differing will
(either a political opponent or a citizen critical of their policies)?
Do Christians *have* thoughts?
Can an atheist leader be trusted to separate his rage at any believing
person from his duty to act with civility in a public position?
Can a Christian be expected to act out his rage with passive-aggressive
behavior?
Where do their drive the values that can guide their actions from?
Where do Christians get off criticizing their betters?
Fred, can I request something of you? Can we no longer converse about
politics and center on our difference (you being an ignorant shmuck and
me being an arrogant ***** with no sense of reality) and instead,
focus on our similiarities?
We both find alt.atheism Chrisitians to be morons. ;-)
That's a given. But actually, Fred can be quite reasonable as long as
you stay away from politics.
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| User: "DanielSan" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist leaders' capacity to govern |
12 Jun 2005 10:26:23 PM |
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John Baker wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 03:17:15 GMT, DanielSan <daniel-san@myrealbox.com>
wrote:
Fred Stone wrote:
"societopia.net" <societopia@societopia.net> wrote in
news:Lc6re.1661479$8l.1636210@pd7tw1no:
We often question what would be the impact, if any, of a leader's
religious background on his decisions in defining public policies?
How about atheist leaders? Can one predict their capacity to govern
based on their ethics and values?
Do Christians exhibit passive-aggressive behavior when confronted with
different opinions?
How do atheists react towards difference?
Do Christians always attack people who don't believe as they do?
What kind of language they use when they do not like something?
Do Christians get all bent out of shape when their beliefs are
challenged?
What kind of thoughts they entertain when they meet a differing will
(either a political opponent or a citizen critical of their policies)?
Do Christians *have* thoughts?
Can an atheist leader be trusted to separate his rage at any believing
person from his duty to act with civility in a public position?
Can a Christian be expected to act out his rage with passive-aggressive
behavior?
Where do their drive the values that can guide their actions from?
Where do Christians get off criticizing their betters?
Fred, can I request something of you? Can we no longer converse about
politics and center on our difference (you being an ignorant shmuck and
me being an arrogant ***** with no sense of reality) and instead,
focus on our similiarities?
We both find alt.atheism Chrisitians to be morons. ;-)
That's a given. But actually, Fred can be quite reasonable as long as
you stay away from politics.
Yep. Hopefully, I can converse with him on a more common ground against
a "common enemy," that is: Ignorant Christians who believe that
atheists are hateful, immoral hedonists who reject God, worship Satan,
and linedance.
Well, maybe not linedancing.
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist leaders' capacity to govern |
13 Jun 2005 07:56:58 AM |
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DanielSan <daniel-san@myrealbox.com> wrote in
news:z17re.8959$lb5.5626@trnddc04:
John Baker wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 03:17:15 GMT, DanielSan
<daniel-san@myrealbox.com> wrote:
Fred Stone wrote:
"societopia.net" <societopia@societopia.net> wrote in
news:Lc6re.1661479$8l.1636210@pd7tw1no:
We often question what would be the impact, if any, of a leader's
religious background on his decisions in defining public policies?
How about atheist leaders? Can one predict their capacity to govern
based on their ethics and values?
Do Christians exhibit passive-aggressive behavior when confronted
with different opinions?
How do atheists react towards difference?
Do Christians always attack people who don't believe as they do?
What kind of language they use when they do not like something?
Do Christians get all bent out of shape when their beliefs are
challenged?
What kind of thoughts they entertain when they meet a differing
will (either a political opponent or a citizen critical of their
policies)?
Do Christians *have* thoughts?
Can an atheist leader be trusted to separate his rage at any
believing person from his duty to act with civility in a public
position?
Can a Christian be expected to act out his rage with
passive-aggressive behavior?
Where do their drive the values that can guide their actions from?
Where do Christians get off criticizing their betters?
Fred, can I request something of you? Can we no longer converse
about politics and center on our difference (you being an ignorant
shmuck and me being an arrogant ***** with no sense of reality) and
instead, focus on our similiarities?
We both find alt.atheism Chrisitians to be morons. ;-)
That's a given. But actually, Fred can be quite reasonable as long as
you stay away from politics.
Yep. Hopefully, I can converse with him on a more common ground
against a "common enemy," that is: Ignorant Christians who believe
that atheists are hateful, immoral hedonists who reject God, worship
Satan, and linedance.
Well, I'll try, but I can't promise to shut up about politics unless you
do too.
Well, maybe not linedancing.
The only sort of dancing that interests me is lap dancing, and not as a
performer. :-)
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Men of learning suspect it little, and ignore it mostly.
-- H.P. Lovecraft, "Hypnos"
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| User: "Syd Maniac" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist leaders' capacity to govern |
13 Jun 2005 11:44:28 PM |
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The only sort of dancing that interests me is lap dancing, and not as a
performer. :-)
--
Fred Stone
MMm... Lap dancing..
PDW
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| User: "nJb" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist leaders' capacity to govern |
12 Jun 2005 10:58:25 PM |
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DanielSan wrote:
John Baker wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 03:17:15 GMT, DanielSan <daniel-san@myrealbox.com>
wrote:
Fred Stone wrote:
"societopia.net" <societopia@societopia.net> wrote in
news:Lc6re.1661479$8l.1636210@pd7tw1no:
We often question what would be the impact, if any, of a leader's
religious background on his decisions in defining public policies?
How about atheist leaders? Can one predict their capacity to govern
based on their ethics and values?
Do Christians exhibit passive-aggressive behavior when confronted
with different opinions?
How do atheists react towards difference?
Do Christians always attack people who don't believe as they do?
What kind of language they use when they do not like something?
Do Christians get all bent out of shape when their beliefs are
challenged?
What kind of thoughts they entertain when they meet a differing will
(either a political opponent or a citizen critical of their policies)?
Do Christians *have* thoughts?
Can an atheist leader be trusted to separate his rage at any believing
person from his duty to act with civility in a public position?
Can a Christian be expected to act out his rage with
passive-aggressive behavior?
Where do their drive the values that can guide their actions from?
Where do Christians get off criticizing their betters?
Fred, can I request something of you? Can we no longer converse
about politics and center on our difference (you being an ignorant
shmuck and me being an arrogant ***** with no sense of reality) and
instead, focus on our similiarities?
We both find alt.atheism Chrisitians to be morons. ;-)
That's a given. But actually, Fred can be quite reasonable as long as
you stay away from politics.
Yep. Hopefully, I can converse with him on a more common ground against
a "common enemy," that is: Ignorant Christians who believe that
atheists are hateful, immoral hedonists who reject God, worship Satan,
and linedance.
Well, maybe not linedancing.
Thank you for the retraction. Those are fighting words. :)
--
Jack
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| User: "Dubh Ghall" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist leaders' capacity to govern |
13 Jun 2005 09:40:15 AM |
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On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 03:23:56 GMT, John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote:
We both find alt.atheism Chrisitians to be morons. ;-)
That's a given. But actually, Fred can be quite reasonable as long as
you stay away from politics.
Mmm. He aint exactly on his own there; is he? (:-)
--
Puck Greenman
The spelling, Like any opinion stated here,
is purely my own
#162 BAAWA Knight.
Plonked by Rob Duncan
Na bister 500,000
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist leaders' capacity to govern |
12 Jun 2005 09:40:19 PM |
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"societopia.net" <societopia@societopia.net> wrote in
news:Lc6re.1661479$8l.1636210@pd7tw1no:
We often question what would be the impact, if any, of a leader's
religious background on his decisions in defining public policies?
How about atheist leaders? Can one predict their capacity to govern
based on their ethics and values?
How about religious leaders? Can one predict their capacity to govern
based on what they think some magical boogeyman in the sky wants?
How do atheists react towards difference?
How do xians react towards difference? Will we see more hatred, bigotry,
and discrimination towards homosexuals, atheists, muslims...?
What kind of language they use when they do not like something?
What kind of language do xians use when they do not like something?
What kind of thoughts they entertain when they meet a differing will
(either a political opponent or a citizen critical of their policies)?
What kind os thoughts xians entertain when they meet a differing will?
Can an atheist leader be trusted to separate his rage at any believing
person from his duty to act with civility in a public position?
Can a xian leader be trusted to separate his rage at any non-xian from
his duty to act with civility in a public position? (Considering that
former pres Bush said that he didn't believe atheists could be considered
citizens, it doesn't seem likely that xians can separate this.)
Where do their drive the values that can guide their actions from?
Where do xians drive the valuse that guide their actions? From 2000+
year old myths?
God bless you,
Learn to think.
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
.
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| User: "Dale" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist leaders' capacity to govern |
13 Jun 2005 09:10:06 PM |
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"societopia.net" <societopia@societopia.net> wrote in message
news:Lc6re.1661479$8l.1636210@pd7tw1no...
We often question what would be the impact, if any, of a leader's
religious
background on his decisions in defining public policies? How about
atheist
leaders? Can one predict their capacity to govern based on their ethics
and
values?
How do atheists react towards difference?
What kind of language they use when they do not like something?
What kind of thoughts they entertain when they meet a differing will
(either
a political opponent or a citizen critical of their policies)?
Can an atheist leader be trusted to separate his rage at any believing
person from his duty to act with civility in a public position?
Where do their drive the values that can guide their actions from?
Theists make the choice of what they believe in, and of what they believe is
good, just as surely as atheists do. And so, all of the qualities you wonder
about come from the same place for atheists as well as theists. It's just
that theists pretend they come from the outside, whereas atheists know they
come only from the inside.
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| User: "societopia.net" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist leaders' capacity to govern |
13 Jun 2005 09:33:18 PM |
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"Dale" <dmgreer@nspm.airmail.net> wrote in message
news:20rre.547$kX4.450@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
....
Theists make the choice of what they believe in, and of what they believe
is
good, just as surely as atheists do. And so, all of the qualities you
wonder
about come from the same place for atheists as well as theists. It's just
that theists pretend they come from the outside, whereas atheists know
they
come only from the inside.
An atheist leader cannot credit their capacity to govern to other than their
egos. They fight all opponents to arrive to the throne, like atheist
kingdoms of the past (before Christ) did.
In modern times, the Soviet empire became another example of a pretense of
atheist democracy. The reality that was discovered after the deception
collapses is that there can never be a so called "atheist democracy". It is
an oxymoron. Why? Because it lacks the capacity to attribute one's
tolerance to the spirit of God and instead would attribute it to one's
precarious desires; the latter turn into a megalomaniac dictatorship. If it
were not for the Biblical principle of loving one's enemies there would have
never been tolerant democracies. People would have continued to be animals
competing in a power struggle under megalomanics kings and queens.
God bless you,
www.societopia.net
.
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist leaders' capacity to govern |
16 Jun 2005 02:11:42 PM |
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"societopia.net" <societopia@societopia.net> wrote in
news:Olrre.1669465$8l.617635@pd7tw1no:
"Dale" <dmgreer@nspm.airmail.net> wrote in message
news:20rre.547$kX4.450@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
...
Theists make the choice of what they believe in, and of what they
believe
is
good, just as surely as atheists do. And so, all of the qualities you
wonder
about come from the same place for atheists as well as theists. It's
just that theists pretend they come from the outside, whereas
atheists know
they
come only from the inside.
An atheist leader cannot credit their capacity to govern to other than
their egos. They fight all opponents to arrive to the throne, like
atheist kingdoms of the past (before Christ) did.
When are you gonna *****, ***** ?
--
Jez, MBA.,
Country Dancing and Advanced Astrology, UBS.
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
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| User: "Michelle Malkin" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist leaders' capacity to govern |
13 Jun 2005 10:23:14 PM |
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"societopia.net" <societopia@societopia.net> wrote in message
news:Olrre.1669465$8l.617635@pd7tw1no...
"Dale" <dmgreer@nspm.airmail.net> wrote in message
news:20rre.547$kX4.450@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
...
Theists make the choice of what they believe in, and of what they
believe
is
good, just as surely as atheists do. And so, all of the qualities you
wonder
about come from the same place for atheists as well as theists. It's
just
that theists pretend they come from the outside, whereas atheists know
they
come only from the inside.
An atheist leader cannot credit their capacity to govern to other than
their
egos. They fight all opponents to arrive to the throne, like atheist
kingdoms of the past (before Christ) did.
In modern times, the Soviet empire became another example of a pretense of
atheist democracy. The reality that was discovered after the deception
collapses is that there can never be a so called "atheist democracy". It
is
an oxymoron. Why? Because it lacks the capacity to attribute one's
tolerance to the spirit of God and instead would attribute it to one's
precarious desires; the latter turn into a megalomaniac dictatorship. If
it
were not for the Biblical principle of loving one's enemies there would
have
never been tolerant democracies. People would have continued to be
animals
competing in a power struggle under megalomanics kings and queens.
God bless you,
www.societopia.net
Anything from sociopath.net is totally ignorable.
.
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist leaders' capacity to govern |
13 Jun 2005 10:38:08 PM |
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"societopia.net" <societopia@societopia.net> wrote in message
news:Olrre.1669465$8l.617635@pd7tw1no...
"Dale" <dmgreer@nspm.airmail.net> wrote in message
news:20rre.547$kX4.450@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
...
Theists make the choice of what they believe in, and of what they believe
is
good, just as surely as atheists do. And so, all of the qualities you
wonder
about come from the same place for atheists as well as theists. It's just
that theists pretend they come from the outside, whereas atheists know
they
come only from the inside.
An atheist leader cannot credit their capacity to govern to other than
their
egos. They fight all opponents to arrive to the throne, like atheist
kingdoms of the past (before Christ) did.
You don't understand the concept of ego. An atheist (or anyone else) would
also have the superego and the id at work, not just the ego (according to
Freud, who made up the idea). I don't know what history books you're
reading, clearly you missed a lot of school, but atheists (like anyone else)
could arrive at the throne by heredity, by conquest, or by marriage. I can't
think of too many royal atheists off the top of my head, but I'm sure there
have been some. And if by "arrive at the throne" you mean attain power (e.g.
be elected, stage a coup, etc.) then everyone fights all opponents to do
that. George Bush, well known theist, fought Jim Kerry for the Presidency.
Or do you mean fight, as in violent fight? Then Hitler, well known theist,
fought (and killed) all opponents to become Fuhrer. There have been so few
admitted atheists who have been in charge of government I can't give you an
example of an atheist leader who attained power without a violent fight, but
I'm sure someone else can think of many examples.
In modern times, the Soviet empire became another example of a pretense of
atheist democracy.
It wasn't a democracy, it was a communist state, troll. And it certainly
wasn't an "atheist democracy." The Russian Orthodox Church even went through
periods of acceptance during the communist regime.
The reality that was discovered after the deception
collapses is that there can never be a so called "atheist democracy".
There can't be a theist democracy either under the separation of church and
state. But you could have a democratic governing body whose members are all
atheists, or who are all theists.
It is an oxymoron. Why? Because it lacks the capacity to attribute one's
tolerance to the spirit of God and instead would attribute it to one's
precarious desires; the latter turn into a megalomaniac dictatorship.
Well then it would no longer be a democracy, would it? And it doesn't follow
that a dictatorship would result from a democratic government working from
their personal code of ethics. Nice trick answering your own questions,
though.
If it were not for the Biblical principle of loving one's enemies there
would have
never been tolerant democracies.
You don't know that.
People would have continued to be animals
competing in a power struggle under megalomanics kings and queens.
Well, they would have continued to be animals no matter what.
.
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| User: "societopia.net" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist leaders' capacity to govern |
13 Jun 2005 10:59:03 PM |
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"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@telus.net> wrote in message
news:Aisre.63153$tt5.30025@edtnps90...
...
There can't be a theist democracy either under the separation of church
and
state. But you could have a democratic governing body whose members are
all
atheists, or who are all theists.
Governing bodies, whose members were all atheists in Asia and Africa, turn
what one might call an elected democracy into a brutal dictatorship. As I
just demonstrated to the audience on this forum, if one raises an expression
of faith in the midst of Atheists, he/she would be mobbed before they even
can say hi. Can you imagine the reaction to me expressing my faith in front
of one of those dictators instead of in this forum? One would be thrown in
jail for expressing their faith in public and would be accused of stirring
violence (just as I demonstrated to you on this very forum). As I mentioned
before the similarities are not that irrelevant.
Tolerance comes from the spirit of God, not from fantasies of men, whom one
has to please in order to be safe living on earth, otherwise be degraded,
beaten and tossed by the mob (who BTW would be acting democratically). This
requires values that are not natural to the animal life. Where do these
values come from? Where does the sacredness of life even in times of
opposing wills come from? Certainly not from the animal kingdom. Animals
do not hold life sacred.
God bless you,
www.societopia.net
.
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| User: "societopia.net" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist leaders' capacity to govern |
14 Jun 2005 08:13:40 AM |
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"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@telus.net> wrote in message
news:Aisre.63153$tt5.30025@edtnps90...
....
And if by "arrive at the throne" you mean attain power (e.g.
be elected, stage a coup, etc.) then everyone fights all opponents to do
that. George Bush, well known theist, fought Jim Kerry for the Presidency.
Both are Christians. Both hold life as sacred (from God). Both praised
each other in the presidential debates. Both were willing to concede to the
other if the public will goes against theirs.
Compare that to Atheists; Saddam Hussein and his children in laws; Egypt's
ruler and his opponents. The only behavior that you would see among
atheists' leaders is assassinations. The capacity to concede to an opposing
will does not exist. Human life is not sacred from God. The atheist ruler
reaches the point of believing that people live in their mercy; not in God's
mercy.
God bless you,
www.societopia.net
.
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist leaders' capacity to govern |
16 Jun 2005 02:16:54 PM |
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"societopia.net" <societopia@societopia.net> wrote in
news:8KAre.1672881$6l.369666@pd7tw2no:
"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@telus.net> wrote in message
news:Aisre.63153$tt5.30025@edtnps90...
...
And if by "arrive at the throne" you mean attain power (e.g.
be elected, stage a coup, etc.) then everyone fights all opponents to
do that. George Bush, well known theist, fought Jim Kerry for the
Presidency.
Both are Christians. Both hold life as sacred (from God).
Bush holds life as sacred !!!!!!!!!
What fucking planet are you on ***** ????
Go tell that to the families of the soldiers who died in an illegal
invasion !
Both
praised each other in the presidential debates.
So fucking what ? Those sociopaths will say ANYTHING to further their
agenda !
Both were willing to
concede to the other if the public will goes against theirs.
*****.
Compare that to Atheists; Saddam Hussein and his children in laws;
Who only gained power through the efforts of the CIA.
Egypt's ruler and his opponents. The only behavior that you would see
among atheists' leaders is assassinations. The capacity to concede to
an opposing will does not exist. Human life is not sacred from God.
The atheist ruler reaches the point of believing that people live in
their mercy; not in God's mercy.
You'd be better off dumping your pathetic tartuffery and re-entering the
REAL WORLD, *****.
God bless you,
***** your so-called 'God' with a red-hot poker up the ***** !
(Hey, if it's good enough for a king of England !)
--
Jez, MBA.,
Country Dancing and Advanced Astrology, UBS.
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
.
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist leaders' capacity to govern |
14 Jun 2005 09:57:12 AM |
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"societopia.net" <societopia@societopia.net> wrote in message
news:8KAre.1672881$6l.369666@pd7tw2no...
"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@telus.net> wrote in message
news:Aisre.63153$tt5.30025@edtnps90...
...
And if by "arrive at the throne" you mean attain power (e.g.
be elected, stage a coup, etc.) then everyone fights all opponents to do
that. George Bush, well known theist, fought Jim Kerry for the
Presidency.
Both are Christians. Both hold life as sacred (from God). Both praised
each other in the presidential debates. Both were willing to concede to
the
other if the public will goes against theirs.
So what? They were still fighting for power (in the figurative term), which
was your point; atheists fight (even using words with violence, according to
you), and christians don't. You must have missed the Presidential debates.
And nice of you to ignore that Hitler, well known christian, didn't exactly
hold life sacred.
Compare that to Atheists; Saddam Hussein and his children in laws; Egypt's
ruler and his opponents.
Saddam Hussein and Egypt's rulers were/are not atheists.
The only behavior that you would see among
atheists' leaders is assassinations.
Give me an example of an atheist leader and I will give you plenty of
examples to show that their behaviour does not consist only of
assassinations. And I will give you christian leaders who equal any atheist
you can summon up with their brutal misbehaviour (I already have, which you
completely ignored- Hitler). Politics and religion (or lack thereof) are two
different things.
The capacity to concede to an opposing
will does not exist.
What are you talking about? The ability to admit you're wrong? That is not
an exclusive trait of theists, subspecies christians. In fact, I find
theists (particularly christians) to lack the ability to change their minds
no matter how much evidence they are presented with that they are incorrect.
Human life is not sacred from God.
Well that's true.
The atheist ruler
reaches the point of believing that people live in their mercy; not in
God's
mercy.
What are you talking about? You live in Canada, right? So do I. Do you think
any Canadian ruler (theist or atheist) could get away with even considering
that Canadian citizens "live in their mercy?" Mercy is not an issue except
in your archaic bible and in the medieval theocracies and other totalitarian
states that still exist around the globe. A Canadian Prime Minister could
not decide to have some of it's citizens slaughtered. A Canadian Prime
Minister could not cut people off from Medicare (unless the citizen is
committing fraud). A Canadian Prime Minister could not cut people off from
welfare (unless the citizen is committing fraud). You get the point? We have
LAWS that even the Leader must obey, and these LAWS are independent of any
religion, and these LAWS protect the citizens and are intended to keep them
healthy and prosperous. In other words, the Law System of Canada shows more
mercy than your elitist church ever has, or are you going to ignore how the
christian church has treated disbelievers throughout history? You probably
will, since you ignored the rest of my previous post.
.
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| User: "DanielSan" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist leaders' capacity to govern |
14 Jun 2005 02:11:09 PM |
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societopia.net wrote:
"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@telus.net> wrote in message
news:Aisre.63153$tt5.30025@edtnps90...
...
And if by "arrive at the throne" you mean attain power (e.g.
be elected, stage a coup, etc.) then everyone fights all opponents to do
that. George Bush, well known theist, fought Jim Kerry for the Presidency.
Both are Christians. Both hold life as sacred (from God). Both praised
each other in the presidential debates. Both were willing to concede to the
other if the public will goes against theirs.
Compare that to Atheists; Saddam Hussein
....is a muslim...
and his children in laws; Egypt's
ruler and his opponents.
....are muslims...
The only behavior that you would see among
atheists' leaders is assassinations.
....or democratization of entire countries...
The capacity to concede to an opposing
will does not exist.
....especially in Christianity...
Human life is not sacred from God.
God doesn't exist.
The atheist ruler
reaches the point of believing that people live in their mercy; not in God's
mercy.
God doesn't exist. People rule people. I've yet to see any "God,"
ruling us. I've yet to see any ferrets ruling us. I've yet to see any
cats ruling us. However, the last two ideas are *STILL* 100,000% more
plausible than this "god" thingy.
God bless you,
....which goes against shaw.ca's AUP...
www.societopia.net
.
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| User: "societopia.net" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist leaders' capacity to govern |
14 Jun 2005 07:00:29 PM |
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"DanielSan" <daniel-san@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:hZFre.4852$1q5.4422@trnddc02...
societopia.net wrote:
"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@telus.net> wrote in message
news:Aisre.63153$tt5.30025@edtnps90...
...
And if by "arrive at the throne" you mean attain power (e.g.
be elected, stage a coup, etc.) then everyone fights all opponents to do
that. George Bush, well known theist, fought Jim Kerry for the
Presidency.
Both are Christians. Both hold life as sacred (from God). Both praised
each other in the presidential debates. Both were willing to concede to
the
other if the public will goes against theirs.
Compare that to Atheists; Saddam Hussein
...is a muslim...
and his children in laws; Egypt's
ruler and his opponents.
...are muslims...
Similar to Chechnya and some of the former Soviet Republics, the populace is
Muslim and the ruling cabal is atheist. The population attempts to revolt
using the political Islamic state concept as the ideology of change and the
rulers suppress them. The daily news from both regions are always that of
assassinations and murders.
Both are fighting over pieces of lands and political control of one another
whereas the kingdom of God is one's heart and in loving one's enemies, not
cursing at and murdering one's opponent.
God bless you,
www.societopia.net
.
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist leaders' capacity to govern |
16 Jun 2005 02:18:58 PM |
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"societopia.net" <societopia@societopia.net> wrote in
news:xcKre.1682333$8l.1613627@pd7tw1no:
"DanielSan" <daniel-san@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:hZFre.4852$1q5.4422@trnddc02...
societopia.net wrote:
"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@telus.net> wrote in message
news:Aisre.63153$tt5.30025@edtnps90...
...
And if by "arrive at the throne" you mean attain power (e.g.
be elected, stage a coup, etc.) then everyone fights all opponents
to do that. George Bush, well known theist, fought Jim Kerry for
the
Presidency.
Both are Christians. Both hold life as sacred (from God). Both
praised each other in the presidential debates. Both were willing
to concede to
the
other if the public will goes against theirs.
Compare that to Atheists; Saddam Hussein
...is a muslim...
and his children in laws; Egypt's
ruler and his opponents.
...are muslims...
Similar to Chechnya and some of the former Soviet Republics, the
populace is Muslim and the ruling cabal is atheist. The population
attempts to revolt using the political Islamic state concept as the
ideology of change and the rulers suppress them. The daily news from
both regions are always that of assassinations and murders.
Both are fighting over pieces of lands and political control of one
another whereas the kingdom of God is one's heart and in loving one's
enemies, not cursing at and murdering one's opponent.
Alright, that's a-fucking-nuff !
My brain is dying just reading your fucking ignorant drivel.
I can't say it's been fun, as it hasn't, so by now....into the fucking
bozo-bin ya go !
*PLONK*
--
Jez, MBA.,
Country Dancing and Advanced Astrology, UBS.
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
.
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| User: "raven1" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist leaders' capacity to govern |
14 Jun 2005 11:13:15 PM |
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On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 00:00:29 GMT, "societopia.net"
<societopia@societopia.net> wrote:
"DanielSan" <daniel-san@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:hZFre.4852$1q5.4422@trnddc02...
societopia.net wrote:
"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@telus.net> wrote in message
news:Aisre.63153$tt5.30025@edtnps90...
...
And if by "arrive at the throne" you mean attain power (e.g.
be elected, stage a coup, etc.) then everyone fights all opponents to do
that. George Bush, well known theist, fought Jim Kerry for the
Presidency.
Both are Christians. Both hold life as sacred (from God). Both praised
each other in the presidential debates. Both were willing to concede to
the
other if the public will goes against theirs.
Compare that to Atheists; Saddam Hussein
...is a muslim...
and his children in laws; Egypt's
ruler and his opponents.
...are muslims...
Similar to Chechnya and some of the former Soviet Republics, the populace is
Muslim and the ruling cabal is atheist.
Poppycock. Where's your evidence that Hussein's or Mubarek's
government contain even a single atheist?
The population attempts to revolt
using the political Islamic state concept as the ideology of change and the
rulers suppress them. The daily news from both regions are always that of
assassinations and murders.
Which are being conducted by Muslims.
---
"This is how liberty dies: with thunderous applause"
- Padme Amidala, Episode III
.
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| User: "societopia.net" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheist leaders' capacity to govern |
16 Jun 2005 12:27:48 AM |
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"raven1" <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote in message
news:2hava1lk9ao30et6pvdprhg9n6grv9ba0s@4ax.com...
...
Similar to Chechnya and some of the former Soviet Republics, the populace
is
Muslim and the ruling cabal is atheist.
Where's your evidence that Hussein's or Mubarek's
government contain even a single atheist?
Mubarak was an officer in the 1952 revolution that was led by what was
termed the "Free Officers". Three rules from the "Free Officers" have so
far ruled Egypt; Abdel Nasser, Saddat and Mubark. All 3 regimes imprisoned
the Muslim Brotherhood (the main popular Islamic movement) at various times.
The latter was accused of assassinating Saddat in 1981.
Iraq's Baath party was founded on the socialist atheist model that drove its
ideology from the same line as Lenin and Stalin.
God bless you,
www.societopia.net
.
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| User: "raven1" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist leaders' capacity to govern |
16 Jun 2005 02:38:22 AM |
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On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 05:27:48 GMT, "societopia.net"
<societopia@societopia.net> wrote:
"raven1" <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote in message
news:2hava1lk9ao30et6pvdprhg9n6grv9ba0s@4ax.com...
..
Similar to Chechnya and some of the former Soviet Republics, the populace
is
Muslim and the ruling cabal is atheist.
Where's your evidence that Hussein's or Mubarek's
government contain even a single atheist?
Mubarak was an officer in the 1952 revolution that was led by what was
termed the "Free Officers". Three rules from the "Free Officers" have so
far ruled Egypt; Abdel Nasser, Saddat and Mubark. All 3 regimes imprisoned
the Muslim Brotherhood (the main popular Islamic movement) at various times.
The latter was accused of assassinating Saddat in 1981.
The relevance of any of the above to your claim being?
Iraq's Baath party was founded on the socialist atheist model that drove its
ideology from the same line as Lenin and Stalin.
The Baath Party was hardly socialistic, and socialism and atheism are
not synonymous in any case.
---
"This is how liberty dies: with thunderous applause"
- Padme Amidala, Episode III
.
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist leaders' capacity to govern |
15 Jun 2005 05:22:07 AM |
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On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 00:13:15 -0400, raven1
<quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 00:00:29 GMT, "societopia.net"
<societopia@societopia.net> wrote:
"DanielSan" <daniel-san@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:hZFre.4852$1q5.4422@trnddc02...
societopia.net wrote:
"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@telus.net> wrote in message
news:Aisre.63153$tt5.30025@edtnps90...
...
And if by "arrive at the throne" you mean attain power (e.g.
be elected, stage a coup, etc.) then everyone fights all opponents to do
that. George Bush, well known theist, fought Jim Kerry for the
Presidency.
Both are Christians. Both hold life as sacred (from God). Both praised
each other in the presidential debates. Both were willing to concede to
the
other if the public will goes against theirs.
Compare that to Atheists; Saddam Hussein
...is a muslim...
and his children in laws; Egypt's
ruler and his opponents.
...are muslims...
Similar to Chechnya and some of the former Soviet Republics, the populace is
Muslim and the ruling cabal is atheist.
Poppycock. Where's your evidence that Hussein's or Mubarek's
government contain even a single atheist?
He has great experience in creating fantasy worlds. He "knows" they
are atheists.
Thomas P.
"Life must be lived forwards but understood backwards"
(Kierkegaard)
.
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist leaders' capacity to govern |
16 Jun 2005 02:20:27 PM |
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raven1 <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote in
news:2hava1lk9ao30et6pvdprhg9n6grv9ba0s@4ax.com:
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 00:00:29 GMT, "societopia.net"
<societopia@societopia.net> wrote:
"DanielSan" <daniel-san@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:hZFre.4852$1q5.4422@trnddc02...
societopia.net wrote:
"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@telus.net> wrote in message
news:Aisre.63153$tt5.30025@edtnps90...
...
And if by "arrive at the throne" you mean attain power (e.g.
be elected, stage a coup, etc.) then everyone fights all opponents
to do that. George Bush, well known theist, fought Jim Kerry for
the
Presidency.
Both are Christians. Both hold life as sacred (from God). Both
praised each other in the presidential debates. Both were willing
to concede to
the
other if the public will goes against theirs.
Compare that to Atheists; Saddam Hussein
...is a muslim...
and his children in laws; Egypt's
ruler and his opponents.
...are muslims...
Similar to Chechnya and some of the former Soviet Republics, the
populace is Muslim and the ruling cabal is atheist.
Poppycock. Where's your evidence that Hussein's or Mubarek's
government contain even a single atheist?
'Evidence', since when did a beliver in 'God' ever NEED evidence ??????
--
Jez, MBA.,
Country Dancing and Advanced Astrology, UBS.
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
.
|
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| User: "John Baker" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheist leaders' capacity to govern |
17 Jun 2005 03:41:52 AM |
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On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:20:27 -0500, Jez
<iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
raven1 <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote in
news:2hava1lk9ao30et6pvdprhg9n6grv9ba0s@4ax.com:
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 00:00:29 GMT, "societopia.net"
<societopia@societopia.net> wrote:
"DanielSan" <daniel-san@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:hZFre.4852$1q5.4422@trnddc02...
societopia.net wrote:
"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@telus.net> wrote in message
news:Aisre.63153$tt5.30025@edtnps90...
...
And if by "arrive at the throne" you mean attain power (e.g.
be elected, stage a coup, etc.) then everyone fights all opponents
to do that. George Bush, well known theist, fought Jim Kerry for
the
Presidency.
Both are Christians. Both hold life as sacred (from God). Both
praised each other in the presidential debates. Both were willing
to concede to
the
other if the public will goes against theirs.
Compare that to Atheists; Saddam Hussein
...is a muslim...
and his children in laws; Egypt's
ruler and his opponents.
...are muslims...
Similar to Chechnya and some of the former Soviet Republics, the
populace is Muslim and the ruling cabal is atheist.
Poppycock. Where's your evidence that Hussein's or Mubarek's
government contain even a single atheist?
'Evidence', since when did a beliver in 'God' ever NEED evidence ??????
Since when did a believer in God even know the meaning of the word?
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist leaders' capacity to govern |
14 Jun 2005 10:14:20 AM |
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societopia.net wrote:
"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@telus.net> wrote in message
news:Aisre.63153$tt5.30025@edtnps90...
...
And if by "arrive at the throne" you mean attain power (e.g.
be elected, stage a coup, etc.) then everyone fights all opponents to do
that. George Bush, well known theist, fought Jim Kerry for the Presidency.
Both are Christians. Both hold life as sacred (from God). Both praised
each other in the presidential debates. Both were willing to concede to the
other if the public will goes against theirs.
Compare that to Atheists; Saddam Hussein and his children in laws;
Not atheists.
Egypt's
ruler and his opponents.
Not an atheist.
The only behavior that you would see among
atheists' leaders is assassinations. The capacity to concede to an opposing
will does not exist. Human life is not sacred from God. The atheist ruler
reaches the point of believing that people live in their mercy; not in God's
mercy.
So, there have been no theists who kill their oponents? American Civil
War? Wars of Religion in Europe?
Neither of those ring a bell?
God bless you,
www.societopia.net
.
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| User: "societopia.net" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist leaders' capacity to govern |
16 Jun 2005 01:09:27 AM |
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"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@telus.net> wrote in message
news:Aisre.63153$tt5.30025@edtnps90...
"societopia.net" <societopia@societopia.net> wrote in message
news:Olrre.1669465$8l.617635@pd7tw1no...
"Dale" <dmgreer@nspm.airmail.net> wrote in message
news:20rre.547$kX4.450@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
...
Theists make the choice of what they believe in, and of what they
believe
is
good, just as surely as atheists do. And so, all of the qualities you
wonder
about come from the same place for atheists as well as theists. It's
just
that theists pretend they come from the outside, whereas atheists know
they
come only from the inside.
An atheist leader cannot credit their capacity to govern to other than
their
egos. They fight all opponents to arrive to the throne, like atheist
kingdoms of the past (before Christ) did.
You don't understand the concept of ego. An atheist (or anyone else) would
also have the superego and the id at work, not just the ego (according to
Freud, who made up the idea). I don't know what history books you're
reading, clearly you missed a lot of school,
Neil, the people that you encourage on this atheism forum to exercise your
breed of verbal violence haven't even read any thing for an atheist
philosopher. They do not even know that one existed. What kind of
schooling have you finished? Why are you attempting to drive the lemmings
down a path of violence?
God bless you,
www.societopia.net
.
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| User: "DanielSan" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist leaders' capacity to govern |
13 Jun 2005 11:09:01 PM |
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societopia.net wrote:
"Dale" <dmgreer@nspm.airmail.net> wrote in message
news:20rre.547$kX4.450@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
...
Theists make the choice of what they believe in, and of what they believe
is
good, just as surely as atheists do. And so, all of the qualities you
wonder
about come from the same place for atheists as well as theists. It's just
that theists pretend they come from the outside, whereas atheists know
they
come only from the inside.
An atheist leader cannot credit their capacity to govern to other than their
egos. They fight all opponents to arrive to the throne, like atheist
kingdoms of the past (before Christ) did.
All leaders cannot credit their capacity to govern to other than their
egos. Religious leaders are no different.
In modern times, the Soviet empire became another example of a pretense of
atheist democracy. The reality that was discovered after the deception
....by the religious conservative republics...
collapses is that there can never be a so called "atheist democracy".
....when there are anti-atheist leaders out there...
It is
an oxymoron. Why?
See above.
Because it lacks the capacity to attribute one's
tolerance to the spirit of God and instead would attribute it to one's
precarious desires;
Atheist democracies do not exist in a vaccuum. Anti-atheist leaders can
bring down an atheist leader, due to the false perception that atheists
revel in only the basest of desires. You have that false perception,
societopia.
the latter turn into a megalomaniac dictatorship.
....which happens often in religious leaderships...
If it
were not for the Biblical principle of loving one's enemies there would have
never been tolerant democracies. People would have continued to be animals
competing in a power struggle under megalomanics kings and queens.
....such as the Adolf "Christian" Hitler?
Unicorn bless you,
www.societopia.net
.
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