| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Martin Kess" |
| Date: |
01 Jan 2006 07:13:34 PM |
| Object: |
Atheistic morals |
To start, let me say that I am an atheist. I don't believe in God and I
am fully convinced that this life is it - that there is no afterlife or
reincarnation or anything of that sort. We're a one shot biological
cannonball.
Now for my question - to anyone else who shares similar views to mine,
how do you define what is the 'right thing to do?' It's a question that
I've been thinking about a lot lately. See, I think that even in the
Christian sense, I am a good person. I help people when they need it, I
don't break any (major) laws and I'm generally committed to making the
world a better place for everyone. I have this distinction from right
and wrong (in my mind at least) but I don't know where I get that
distinction.
And that's my problem. Any insight?
.
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| User: "Jim07D6" |
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| Title: Re: Atheistic morals |
01 Jan 2006 08:00:24 PM |
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"Martin Kess" <MartinKess@gmail.com> said:
To start, let me say that I am an atheist. I don't believe in God and I
am fully convinced that this life is it - that there is no afterlife or
reincarnation or anything of that sort. We're a one shot biological
cannonball.
Now for my question - to anyone else who shares similar views to mine,
how do you define what is the 'right thing to do?'
The same way theists do. We just don't enshrine our morality in
religion.
--- Jim07D6
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| User: "DaveJr" |
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| Title: Re: Atheistic morals |
01 Jan 2006 07:43:44 PM |
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"Martin Kess" <MartinKess@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1136164414.804891.76180@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
To start, let me say that I am an atheist. I don't believe in God and I
am fully convinced that this life is it - that there is no afterlife or
reincarnation or anything of that sort. We're a one shot biological
cannonball.
Now for my question - to anyone else who shares similar views to mine,
how do you define what is the 'right thing to do?' It's a question that
I've been thinking about a lot lately. See, I think that even in the
Christian sense, I am a good person. I help people when they need it, I
don't break any (major) laws and I'm generally committed to making the
world a better place for everyone. I have this distinction from right
and wrong (in my mind at least) but I don't know where I get that
distinction.
And that's my problem. Any insight?
What's the problem? You don't need to be a member of the gawdsquad to be a
good person, despite what they say.
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| User: "Ike" |
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| Title: Re: Atheistic morals |
02 Jan 2006 01:51:44 AM |
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"Martin Kess" <MartinKess@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1136164414.804891.76180@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
To start, let me say that I am an atheist. I don't believe in God and I
am fully convinced that this life is it - that there is no afterlife or
reincarnation or anything of that sort. We're a one shot biological
cannonball.
Now for my question - to anyone else who shares similar views to mine,
how do you define what is the 'right thing to do?' It's a question that
I've been thinking about a lot lately. See, I think that even in the
Christian sense, I am a good person. I help people when they need it, I
don't break any (major) laws and I'm generally committed to making the
world a better place for everyone. I have this distinction from right
and wrong (in my mind at least) but I don't know where I get that
distinction.
And that's my problem. Any insight?
This bother you? You need help.
.
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| User: "Michelle Malkin" |
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| Title: Re: Atheistic morals |
01 Jan 2006 09:27:50 PM |
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"Martin Kess" <MartinKess@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1136164414.804891.76180@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
To start, let me say that I am an atheist. I don't believe in God and I
am fully convinced that this life is it - that there is no afterlife or
reincarnation or anything of that sort. We're a one shot biological
cannonball.
Now for my question - to anyone else who shares similar views to mine,
how do you define what is the 'right thing to do?' It's a question that
I've been thinking about a lot lately. See, I think that even in the
Christian sense, I am a good person. I help people when they need it, I
don't break any (major) laws and I'm generally committed to making the
world a better place for everyone. I have this distinction from right
and wrong (in my mind at least) but I don't know where I get that
distinction.
And that's my problem. Any insight?
You have to find your own personal life philosophy to follow.
You seem to have a good star on that already. The philosophy
that does it for me is humanism.
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| User: "Just Mark" |
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| Title: Re: Atheistic morals |
01 Jan 2006 07:34:45 PM |
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"Martin Kess" <MartinKess@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1136164414.804891.76180@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
To start, let me say that I am an atheist. I don't believe in God and I
am fully convinced that this life is it - that there is no afterlife or
reincarnation or anything of that sort. We're a one shot biological
cannonball.
Now for my question - to anyone else who shares similar views to mine,
how do you define what is the 'right thing to do?' It's a question that
I've been thinking about a lot lately. See, I think that even in the
Christian sense, I am a good person. I help people when they need it, I
don't break any (major) laws and I'm generally committed to making the
world a better place for everyone. I have this distinction from right
and wrong (in my mind at least) but I don't know where I get that
distinction.
And that's my problem. Any insight?
You want to know where you get that distinction.
Answer: you inherited it via both the genetic encoding which evolutions
processes kept as adaptive, and the social behaviors which were likewise
adaptive. Each (genes and environment) effects the other in every part of
the human experience The fun part is spending generations sorting it all
out those effects.
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| User: "Gail Futoran" |
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| Title: Re: Atheistic morals |
02 Jan 2006 10:40:48 AM |
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"Martin Kess" <MartinKess@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1136164414.804891.76180@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
To start, let me say that I am an atheist. I don't believe in God and I
am fully convinced that this life is it - that there is no afterlife or
reincarnation or anything of that sort. We're a one shot biological
cannonball.
Now for my question - to anyone else who shares similar views to mine,
how do you define what is the 'right thing to do?' It's a question that
I've been thinking about a lot lately. See, I think that even in the
Christian sense, I am a good person. I help people when they need it, I
don't break any (major) laws and I'm generally committed to making the
world a better place for everyone. I have this distinction from right
and wrong (in my mind at least) but I don't know where I get that
distinction.
And that's my problem. Any insight?
While I agree with what others have said in this
thread, I wanted to add a few thoughts.
I was raised Christian (Lutheran), baptised,
confirmed, etc. In college I drifted away from
religion and considered myself agnostic.
Sometime shortly after marriage I decided I
was an atheist. That was about 25 years ago.
I don't see that I'm a different person now than
I was as a Christian or as an agnostic. I.e., I
*chose* to accept the moral lessons that made
sense to me, just as I choose to obey most
local, state and federal laws.
Everyone makes that choice, whether they admit
it or not. It doesn't matter what your religious
beliefs are, or where the moral lessons come
from. There are plenty of examples of religious
people who do/did evil, and atheists who do/did
good.
Individuals make choices, probably based on each
person's comfort level with likely consequences.
There really shouldn't be a problem, unless
you make it one for yourself.
Gail
aa#2247 ["Shiny..."]
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Atheistic morals |
03 Jan 2006 01:46:12 PM |
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In <1136164414.804891.76180@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, "Martin Kess"
<MartinKess@gmail.com> wrote:
To start, let me say that I am an atheist. I don't believe in God and I am
fully convinced that this life is it - that there is no afterlife or
reincarnation or anything of that sort. We're a one shot biological
cannonball.
Now for my question - to anyone else who shares similar views to mine, how
do you define what is the 'right thing to do?' It's a question that I've
been thinking about a lot lately. See, I think that even in the Christian
sense, I am a good person. I help people when they need it, I don't break
any (major) laws and I'm generally committed to making the world a better
place for everyone. I have this distinction from right and wrong (in my
mind at least) but I don't know where I get that distinction.
And that's my problem. Any insight?
You got the distinction from the same place everybody else did. A
set of inherited predispositions to behavior interacting with the
society in which you grew up.
Christians (and many other theists) merely try to claim an invisible,
undetectable "source."
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
So much for that "storm of the century" excuse
http://makeashorterlink.com/?A3992495C
NO held hostage by oil corporations,
ANWR demanded as ransom
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J5C92195C
White House balks at spending on US citizens,
needs more billions for Iraq!
http://makeashorterlink.com/?G1D93595C
(Tell me again how much we spent bailing out the S&Ls?)
http://www.nola.com
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Atheistic morals |
02 Jan 2006 01:35:56 AM |
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In article <1136164414.804891.76180@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"Martin Kess" <MartinKess@gmail.com> wrote:
To start, let me say that I am an atheist. I don't believe in God and I
am fully convinced that this life is it - that there is no afterlife or
reincarnation or anything of that sort. We're a one shot biological
cannonball.
Now for my question - to anyone else who shares similar views to mine,
how do you define what is the 'right thing to do?' It's a question that
I've been thinking about a lot lately. See, I think that even in the
Christian sense, I am a good person. I help people when they need it, I
don't break any (major) laws and I'm generally committed to making the
world a better place for everyone. I have this distinction from right
and wrong (in my mind at least) but I don't know where I get that
distinction.
And that's my problem. Any insight?
I go by the 'golden rule'. Treat others as you would wish to be treated
yourself. this rule long predates Christianity.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Atheistic morals |
02 Jan 2006 10:34:13 PM |
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On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 23:35:56 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in
In article <1136164414.804891.76180@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"Martin Kess" <MartinKess@gmail.com> wrote:
To start, let me say that I am an atheist. I don't believe in God and I
am fully convinced that this life is it - that there is no afterlife or
reincarnation or anything of that sort. We're a one shot biological
cannonball.
Now for my question - to anyone else who shares similar views to mine,
how do you define what is the 'right thing to do?' It's a question that
I've been thinking about a lot lately. See, I think that even in the
Christian sense, I am a good person. I help people when they need it, I
don't break any (major) laws and I'm generally committed to making the
world a better place for everyone. I have this distinction from right
and wrong (in my mind at least) but I don't know where I get that
distinction.
And that's my problem. Any insight?
I go by the 'golden rule'. Treat others as you would wish to be treated
yourself. this rule long predates Christianity.
And if you were into heavy B&D/S&M?
Fundies and trolls are urged to shove
a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed.
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Atheistic morals |
04 Jan 2006 01:12:03 AM |
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In article <hlvjr191ggpqo7dkprrcicvsmmh13hp452@4ax.com>,
wrote:
On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 23:35:56 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in
In article <1136164414.804891.76180@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"Martin Kess" <MartinKess@gmail.com> wrote:
To start, let me say that I am an atheist. I don't believe in God and I
am fully convinced that this life is it - that there is no afterlife or
reincarnation or anything of that sort. We're a one shot biological
cannonball.
Now for my question - to anyone else who shares similar views to mine,
how do you define what is the 'right thing to do?' It's a question that
I've been thinking about a lot lately. See, I think that even in the
Christian sense, I am a good person. I help people when they need it, I
don't break any (major) laws and I'm generally committed to making the
world a better place for everyone. I have this distinction from right
and wrong (in my mind at least) but I don't know where I get that
distinction.
And that's my problem. Any insight?
I go by the 'golden rule'. Treat others as you would wish to be treated
yourself. this rule long predates Christianity.
And if you were into heavy B&D/S&M?
As long as the partners were willing.
Fundies and trolls are urged to shove
a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Atheistic morals |
04 Jan 2006 02:53:18 PM |
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On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 23:12:03 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <hlvjr191ggpqo7dkprrcicvsmmh13hp452@4ax.com>,
wrote:
On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 23:35:56 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in
In article <1136164414.804891.76180@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"Martin Kess" <MartinKess@gmail.com> wrote:
To start, let me say that I am an atheist. I don't believe in God and I
am fully convinced that this life is it - that there is no afterlife or
reincarnation or anything of that sort. We're a one shot biological
cannonball.
Now for my question - to anyone else who shares similar views to mine,
how do you define what is the 'right thing to do?' It's a question that
I've been thinking about a lot lately. See, I think that even in the
Christian sense, I am a good person. I help people when they need it, I
don't break any (major) laws and I'm generally committed to making the
world a better place for everyone. I have this distinction from right
and wrong (in my mind at least) but I don't know where I get that
distinction.
And that's my problem. Any insight?
I go by the 'golden rule'. Treat others as you would wish to be treated
yourself. this rule long predates Christianity.
And if you were into heavy B&D/S&M?
As long as the partners were willing.
There's nothing about willing in the 'golden rule.'
--
Fundies and trolls are urged to shove
a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed.
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Atheistic morals |
05 Jan 2006 12:22:49 AM |
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In article <pcdor1lq4lknsbp28fpghp9tog9rfbr6hs@4ax.com>,
wrote:
On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 23:12:03 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <hlvjr191ggpqo7dkprrcicvsmmh13hp452@4ax.com>,
wrote:
On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 23:35:56 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in
In article <1136164414.804891.76180@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"Martin Kess" <MartinKess@gmail.com> wrote:
To start, let me say that I am an atheist. I don't believe in God and I
am fully convinced that this life is it - that there is no afterlife or
reincarnation or anything of that sort. We're a one shot biological
cannonball.
Now for my question - to anyone else who shares similar views to mine,
how do you define what is the 'right thing to do?' It's a question that
I've been thinking about a lot lately. See, I think that even in the
Christian sense, I am a good person. I help people when they need it, I
don't break any (major) laws and I'm generally committed to making the
world a better place for everyone. I have this distinction from right
and wrong (in my mind at least) but I don't know where I get that
distinction.
And that's my problem. Any insight?
I go by the 'golden rule'. Treat others as you would wish to be treated
yourself. this rule long predates Christianity.
And if you were into heavy B&D/S&M?
As long as the partners were willing.
There's nothing about willing in the 'golden rule.'
I don't think that I would want someone to force me to do something that
I was unwilling to do, so why should I force someone else?
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Atheistic morals |
05 Jan 2006 06:07:11 PM |
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On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 22:22:49 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <pcdor1lq4lknsbp28fpghp9tog9rfbr6hs@4ax.com>,
wrote:
On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 23:12:03 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <hlvjr191ggpqo7dkprrcicvsmmh13hp452@4ax.com>,
wrote:
On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 23:35:56 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in
In article <1136164414.804891.76180@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"Martin Kess" <MartinKess@gmail.com> wrote:
To start, let me say that I am an atheist. I don't believe in God and I
am fully convinced that this life is it - that there is no afterlife or
reincarnation or anything of that sort. We're a one shot biological
cannonball.
Now for my question - to anyone else who shares similar views to mine,
how do you define what is the 'right thing to do?' It's a question that
I've been thinking about a lot lately. See, I think that even in the
Christian sense, I am a good person. I help people when they need it, I
don't break any (major) laws and I'm generally committed to making the
world a better place for everyone. I have this distinction from right
and wrong (in my mind at least) but I don't know where I get that
distinction.
And that's my problem. Any insight?
I go by the 'golden rule'. Treat others as you would wish to be treated
yourself. this rule long predates Christianity.
And if you were into heavy B&D/S&M?
As long as the partners were willing.
There's nothing about willing in the 'golden rule.'
I don't think that I would want someone to force me to do something that
I was unwilling to do, so why should I force someone else?
You missed it. I wasn't indicating anything about you personally. I
was dealing with the statement the 'golden rule' made.
--
Fundies and trolls are invited to shove
a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Atheistic morals |
06 Jan 2006 12:42:13 AM |
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In article <53drr1tb762bpcgmrl2uhvjmuvli0ppst2@4ax.com>,
stoney <> wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 22:22:49 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <pcdor1lq4lknsbp28fpghp9tog9rfbr6hs@4ax.com>,
wrote:
On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 23:12:03 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <hlvjr191ggpqo7dkprrcicvsmmh13hp452@4ax.com>,
wrote:
On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 23:35:56 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in
In article <1136164414.804891.76180@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"Martin Kess" <MartinKess@gmail.com> wrote:
To start, let me say that I am an atheist. I don't believe in God
and I
am fully convinced that this life is it - that there is no afterlife
or
reincarnation or anything of that sort. We're a one shot biological
cannonball.
Now for my question - to anyone else who shares similar views to
mine,
how do you define what is the 'right thing to do?' It's a question
that
I've been thinking about a lot lately. See, I think that even in the
Christian sense, I am a good person. I help people when they need
it, I
don't break any (major) laws and I'm generally committed to making
the
world a better place for everyone. I have this distinction from
right
and wrong (in my mind at least) but I don't know where I get that
distinction.
And that's my problem. Any insight?
I go by the 'golden rule'. Treat others as you would wish to be
treated
yourself. this rule long predates Christianity.
And if you were into heavy B&D/S&M?
As long as the partners were willing.
There's nothing about willing in the 'golden rule.'
I don't think that I would want someone to force me to do something that
I was unwilling to do, so why should I force someone else?
You missed it. I wasn't indicating anything about you personally. I
was dealing with the statement the 'golden rule' made.
Oh.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Atheistic morals |
06 Jan 2006 02:40:31 PM |
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On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 22:42:13 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <53drr1tb762bpcgmrl2uhvjmuvli0ppst2@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
[]
I go by the 'golden rule'. Treat others as you would wish to be
treated
yourself. this rule long predates Christianity.
And if you were into heavy B&D/S&M?
As long as the partners were willing.
There's nothing about willing in the 'golden rule.'
I don't think that I would want someone to force me to do something that
I was unwilling to do, so why should I force someone else?
You missed it. I wasn't indicating anything about you personally. I
was dealing with the statement the 'golden rule' made.
Oh.
You see the point.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
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| User: "Ben Goren" |
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| Title: Re: Atheistic morals |
05 Jan 2006 08:50:36 PM |
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johac wrote:
stoney@the.net wrote:
I go by the 'golden rule'. Treat others as you would wish to
be treated yourself. this rule long predates Christianity.
And if you were into heavy B&D/S&M?
As long as the partners were willing.
There's nothing about willing in the 'golden rule.'
I don't think that I would want someone to force me to do
something that I was unwilling to do, so why should I force
someone else?
Bingo. And that's why I form my own moral code as follows:
I. Do not do unto others as they do not wish to be done unto.
(The First Rule may be broken only to the minimum
degree necessary to otherwise preserve it.)
II. And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to
them likewise.
III. An it harm none, do what thou will.
The rules must be applied in that order. For example, following
the second rule is not permissible in circumstances which require
violating the first rule (except as provided for by the Exception).
Cheers,
b&
--
EAC Memographer
BAAWA Knight of Blasphemy
``All but God can prove this sentence true.''
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Atheistic morals |
07 Jan 2006 12:43:59 AM |
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In article <1136515836.182630.91470@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
"Ben Goren" <ben.goren@gmail.com> wrote:
johac wrote:
stoney@the.net wrote:
I go by the 'golden rule'. Treat others as you would wish to
be treated yourself. this rule long predates Christianity.
And if you were into heavy B&D/S&M?
As long as the partners were willing.
There's nothing about willing in the 'golden rule.'
I don't think that I would want someone to force me to do
something that I was unwilling to do, so why should I force
someone else?
Bingo. And that's why I form my own moral code as follows:
I. Do not do unto others as they do not wish to be done unto.
(The First Rule may be broken only to the minimum
degree necessary to otherwise preserve it.)
II. And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to
them likewise.
III. An it harm none, do what thou will.
The rules must be applied in that order. For example, following
the second rule is not permissible in circumstances which require
violating the first rule (except as provided for by the Exception).
Sounds almost like a cross between the Wiccan Rede and Asimov's Laws of
Robotics, but I like it! :-)
Cheers,
b&
--
EAC Memographer
BAAWA Knight of Blasphemy
``All but God can prove this sentence true.''
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Atheistic morals |
07 Jan 2006 12:43:12 PM |
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On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 22:43:59 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <1136515836.182630.91470@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
"Ben Goren" <ben.goren@gmail.com> wrote:
johac wrote:
stoney@the.net wrote:
I go by the 'golden rule'. Treat others as you would wish to
be treated yourself. this rule long predates Christianity.
And if you were into heavy B&D/S&M?
As long as the partners were willing.
There's nothing about willing in the 'golden rule.'
I don't think that I would want someone to force me to do
something that I was unwilling to do, so why should I force
someone else?
Bingo. And that's why I form my own moral code as follows:
I. Do not do unto others as they do not wish to be done unto.
(The First Rule may be broken only to the minimum
degree necessary to otherwise preserve it.)
II. And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to
them likewise.
III. An it harm none, do what thou will.
The rules must be applied in that order. For example, following
the second rule is not permissible in circumstances which require
violating the first rule (except as provided for by the Exception).
Sounds almost like a cross between the Wiccan Rede and Asimov's Laws of
Robotics, but I like it! :-)
It's the foundation.....
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Atheistic morals |
08 Jan 2006 01:46:49 AM |
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In article <kt20s1l1eh93nt09iee03uqpcknfknugfk@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 22:43:59 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <1136515836.182630.91470@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
"Ben Goren" <ben.goren@gmail.com> wrote:
johac wrote:
stoney@the.net wrote:
I go by the 'golden rule'. Treat others as you would wish to
be treated yourself. this rule long predates Christianity.
And if you were into heavy B&D/S&M?
As long as the partners were willing.
There's nothing about willing in the 'golden rule.'
I don't think that I would want someone to force me to do
something that I was unwilling to do, so why should I force
someone else?
Bingo. And that's why I form my own moral code as follows:
I. Do not do unto others as they do not wish to be done unto.
(The First Rule may be broken only to the minimum
degree necessary to otherwise preserve it.)
II. And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to
them likewise.
III. An it harm none, do what thou will.
The rules must be applied in that order. For example, following
the second rule is not permissible in circumstances which require
violating the first rule (except as provided for by the Exception).
Sounds almost like a cross between the Wiccan Rede and Asimov's Laws of
Robotics, but I like it! :-)
It's the foundation.....
I have to look for my Asimov books again. It's been so long.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Atheistic morals |
02 Jan 2006 01:38:29 AM |
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honesty.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Atheistic morals |
02 Jan 2006 10:34:40 PM |
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On 1 Jan 2006 23:38:29 -0800, wrote in
honesty.
I can think of situations where it's not the best policy.
Fundies and trolls are urged to shove
a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed.
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| User: "Ben Goren" |
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| Title: Re: Atheistic morals |
01 Jan 2006 10:36:53 PM |
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Martin Kess wrote:
I have this distinction from right and wrong (in my mind at
least) but I don't know where I get that distinction.
And that's my problem. Any insight?
Humans are capable of amazing feats of computation at other than
conscious levels. The calculus required to run to a ball to catch
it is staggering, yet most of us can do it without thinking.
In the case of morality, the underlying subject is game
theory. The formal study of game theory is still in its infancy,
yet it's doing some impressive things to catch up with what most
of us intuitively know.
I submit that, at some point in the not-terribly distant future,
game theory will mathematically prove that following these Three
Good Rules (and One Exception) is the most optimal strategy for
both individuals and for society as a whole:
I. Do not do unto others as they do not wish to be done unto.
(The First Rule may be broken only to the minimum
degree necessary to otherwise preserve it.)
II. And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to
them likewise.
III. An it harm none, do what thou will.
The rules must be applied in that order. For example, following
the second rule is not permissible in circumstances which require
violating the first rule (except as provided for by the Exception).
Cheers,
b&
--
BAAWA Knight of Blasphemy
All but God can prove this sentence true.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Atheistic morals |
01 Jan 2006 07:37:02 PM |
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Martin Kess wrote:
To start, let me say that I am an atheist. I don't believe in God and
I am fully convinced that this life is it - that there is no
afterlife or reincarnation or anything of that sort. We're a one shot
biological cannonball.
Now for my question - to anyone else who shares similar views to mine,
how do you define what is the 'right thing to do?' It's a question
that I've been thinking about a lot lately. See, I think that even in
the Christian sense, I am a good person. I help people when they need
it, I don't break any (major) laws and I'm generally committed to
making the world a better place for everyone. I have this distinction
from right and wrong (in my mind at least) but I don't know where I
get that distinction.
And that's my problem. Any insight?
Probably the same place you learned your language, the way you put on your
belt and th ay you take a top off a bottle.
Culture.
You say you help people when they need it. In different times and or
different places today that might have been said differently or your tribe
would have known that when you said "people" you meant and frequently said
the name of your tribe or group.
Some religions have adopted the changes for the good that people and culture
have brought but I know of no religion in and of itself that said anything
but the current view of the majority was what their gods wanted.
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| User: "towelie" |
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| Title: Re: Atheistic morals |
01 Jan 2006 07:34:28 PM |
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Martin Kess wrote:
To start, let me say that I am an atheist. I don't believe in God and I
am fully convinced that this life is it - that there is no afterlife or
reincarnation or anything of that sort. We're a one shot biological
cannonball.
Now for my question - to anyone else who shares similar views to mine,
how do you define what is the 'right thing to do?'
It's pretty simple to me: I'm kind to those who are kind to me and I try to
avoid those who are cruel to me. I pretty much ignore everybody in between.
Kinda like the 'golden rule'.
It's a question that
I've been thinking about a lot lately. See, I think that even in the
Christian sense, I am a good person. I help people when they need it, I
don't break any (major) laws and I'm generally committed to making the
world a better place for everyone. I have this distinction from right
and wrong (in my mind at least) but I don't know where I get that
distinction.
And that's my problem. Any insight?
You most likely get that distinction from within. A combination of life
experience and inate human kindness.
I could be totally wrong, however.
--
aa #2133
ap #19
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Atheistic morals |
02 Jan 2006 03:42:38 PM |
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On Sun, 1 Jan 2006 19:34:28 -0600, "towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
Now for my question - to anyone else who shares similar views to mine,
how do you define what is the 'right thing to do?'
It's pretty simple to me: I'm kind to those who are kind to me and I try to
avoid those who are cruel to me. I pretty much ignore everybody in between.
Kinda like the 'golden rule'.
Yep, that's Christian, you know.
It's a question that
I've been thinking about a lot lately. See, I think that even in the
Christian sense, I am a good person. I help people when they need it, I
don't break any (major) laws and I'm generally committed to making the
world a better place for everyone. I have this distinction from right
and wrong (in my mind at least) but I don't know where I get that
distinction.
And that's my problem. Any insight?
You most likely get that distinction from within. A combination of life
experience and inate human kindness.
I could be totally wrong, however.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "towelie" |
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| Title: Re: Atheistic morals |
02 Jan 2006 07:34:10 PM |
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duke wrote:
On Sun, 1 Jan 2006 19:34:28 -0600, "towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Now for my question - to anyone else who shares similar views to mine,
how do you define what is the 'right thing to do?'
It's pretty simple to me: I'm kind to those who are kind to me and I try
to avoid those who are cruel to me. I pretty much ignore everybody in
between. Kinda like the 'golden rule'.
Yep, that's Christian, you know.
No, it is pre-christian. The xians stole it and claimed it for themselves
like they did everything else.
--
aa #2133
ap #19
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Atheistic morals |
02 Jan 2006 07:39:03 PM |
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On Mon, 2 Jan 2006 19:34:10 -0600, "towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>
wrote:
duke wrote:
On Sun, 1 Jan 2006 19:34:28 -0600, "towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Now for my question - to anyone else who shares similar views to mine,
how do you define what is the 'right thing to do?'
It's pretty simple to me: I'm kind to those who are kind to me and I try
to avoid those who are cruel to me. I pretty much ignore everybody in
between. Kinda like the 'golden rule'.
Yep, that's Christian, you know.
No, it is pre-christian. The xians stole it and claimed it for themselves
like they did everything else.
He knows that. How many times have we told him? Repetition has changed
it from an honest (if he wver has been honest) mistake to something
else.
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| User: "Santolina chamaecyparissus" |
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| Title: Re: Atheistic morals |
01 Jan 2006 10:46:46 PM |
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Martin Kess wrote:
To start, let me say that I am an atheist. I don't believe in God and I
am fully convinced that this life is it - that there is no afterlife or
reincarnation or anything of that sort. We're a one shot biological
cannonball.
Now for my question - to anyone else who shares similar views to mine,
how do you define what is the 'right thing to do?'
Same way as everybody else. Upbringing, society, predisposition have
all contributed to the moral choices I make.
It's a question that
I've been thinking about a lot lately. See, I think that even in the
Christian sense, I am a good person. I help people when they need it, I
don't break any (major) laws and I'm generally committed to making the
world a better place for everyone. I have this distinction from right
and wrong (in my mind at least) but I don't know where I get that
distinction.
You get it from the same place as everybody else.
And that's my problem. Any insight?
You have no problem. Your morals come from the same place as everybody
else's.
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| User: "Kate " |
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| Title: Re: Atheistic morals |
02 Jan 2006 04:02:14 PM |
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On 1 Jan 2006 17:13:34 -0800, "Martin Kess" <MartinKess@gmail.com>
wrote:
To start, let me say that I am an atheist. I don't believe in God and I
am fully convinced that this life is it - that there is no afterlife or
reincarnation or anything of that sort. We're a one shot biological
cannonball.
Now for my question - to anyone else who shares similar views to mine,
how do you define what is the 'right thing to do?' It's a question that
I've been thinking about a lot lately. See, I think that even in the
Christian sense, I am a good person. I help people when they need it, I
don't break any (major) laws and I'm generally committed to making the
world a better place for everyone. I have this distinction from right
and wrong (in my mind at least) but I don't know where I get that
distinction.
And that's my problem. Any insight?
The difference between a theist and an atheist is the goal.
Morals are the rules to help your goal.
A theist's goal is to please his or her god - although this is rarely
what they really do - they just make up rules to help other goals, but
they don't understand or admit it.
So what is an athiest's goal? To help yourself? To help your
family? To help your community? To help your nation? To help your
species? To help life in general?
If you answer these questions, and put them into priority (for
instance - helping yourself and your family will do nothing if you
don't also help your species) you will find many of your questions
answered.
Kate
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| User: "satyr" |
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| Title: Re: Atheistic morals |
02 Jan 2006 10:40:55 AM |
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On 1 Jan 2006 17:13:34 -0800, "Martin Kess" <MartinKess@gmail.com>
wrote:
To start, let me say that I am an atheist. I don't believe in God and I
am fully convinced that this life is it - that there is no afterlife or
reincarnation or anything of that sort. We're a one shot biological
cannonball.
Now for my question - to anyone else who shares similar views to mine,
how do you define what is the 'right thing to do?' It's a question that
I've been thinking about a lot lately. See, I think that even in the
Christian sense, I am a good person. I help people when they need it, I
don't break any (major) laws and I'm generally committed to making the
world a better place for everyone. I have this distinction from right
and wrong (in my mind at least) but I don't know where I get that
distinction.
And that's my problem. Any insight?
Unlike Fundamentalist Christians, Nazis and others with absolute
morality dictated by an authoritarian source, the atheist must sort
morality from bigotry and deal with gray areas. It sounds like you
have a good handle on this. As long as you continue to view morality
as a journey rather than a destination, you are on the right track.
--
satyr #1953
Chairman, EAC Church Taxation Subcommittee
Director, Gideon Bible Alternative Fuel Project
Supervisor, EAC Fossil Casting Lab
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Atheistic morals |
02 Jan 2006 10:30:40 PM |
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On 1 Jan 2006 17:13:34 -0800, "Martin Kess" <MartinKess@gmail.com> wrote
in
To start, let me say that I am an atheist. I don't believe in God and I
am fully convinced that this life is it - that there is no afterlife or
reincarnation or anything of that sort. We're a one shot biological
cannonball.
Now for my question - to anyone else who shares similar views to mine,
how do you define what is the 'right thing to do?'
One does the best they can. Keep in mind people are always working with
insufficent data. Doing the right thing, so you think at the time, can
very well down the road have appalling ramifications and reprecussions.
It's a question that
I've been thinking about a lot lately. See, I think that even in the
Christian sense, I am a good person. I help people when they need it, I
don't break any (major) laws and I'm generally committed to making the
world a better place for everyone. I have this distinction from right
and wrong (in my mind at least) but I don't know where I get that
distinction.
And that's my problem. Any insight?
Empathy and consideration of others.
Fundies and trolls are urged to shove
a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed.
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| User: "MarkA" |
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| Title: Re: Atheistic morals |
02 Jan 2006 07:12:11 AM |
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On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 17:13:34 -0800, Martin Kess wrote:
To start, let me say that I am an atheist. I don't believe in God and I am
fully convinced that this life is it - that there is no afterlife or
reincarnation or anything of that sort. We're a one shot biological
cannonball.
Now for my question - to anyone else who shares similar views to mine, how
do you define what is the 'right thing to do?' It's a question that I've
been thinking about a lot lately. See, I think that even in the Christian
sense, I am a good person. I help people when they need it, I don't break
any (major) laws and I'm generally committed to making the world a better
place for everyone. I have this distinction from right and wrong (in my
mind at least) but I don't know where I get that distinction.
And that's my problem. Any insight?
Oh my GOD!!! Another Secular Humanist!! Welcome to the club. ;)
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
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