| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Bible Bob" |
| Date: |
15 Apr 2005 11:42:43 PM |
| Object: |
Atheists - What turned you off? |
I just finished reading Michelle Malkin's atheist quote of the month
nomination of Mark Bilbo's statement.
Over the past year or so I have seen several atheists comment about
negative experiences in the Christian church. I was an atheist until
I became a Christian in 1976, but had no church exposure until after I
became a Christian - except for my mom running off on my dad and us
six kids to become a nun when I was ten (fortuinately she changed her
mind and came back to us and became an alcoholic instead).
My negative experiences with different church groups came after I was
a Christian so my perspective is different. I consider some of their
behavior and doctrines treasonous; but from the perspective of a
violation of trust.
I would like to know from atheists that attended church what organized
religion did that harmed them or angered them the most.
Non-commercial website where everything is free.
http://www.biblebob.net
BB
.
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheists - What turned you off? |
16 Apr 2005 01:05:00 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 04:42:43 GMT in free.christians, Bible Bob (Bible
Bob <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net>) said, directing the reply to
free.christians
I just finished reading Michelle Malkin's atheist quote of the month
nomination of Mark Bilbo's statement.
Over the past year or so I have seen several atheists comment about
negative experiences in the Christian church. I was an atheist until
I became a Christian in 1976, but had no church exposure until after I
became a Christian - except for my mom running off on my dad and us
six kids to become a nun when I was ten (fortuinately she changed her
mind and came back to us and became an alcoholic instead).
My negative experiences with different church groups came after I was
a Christian so my perspective is different. I consider some of their
behavior and doctrines treasonous; but from the perspective of a
violation of trust.
I would like to know from atheists that attended church what organized
religion did that harmed them or angered them the most.
What turned me off religion? Mostly that it's not true!
.
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| User: "Bible Bob" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheists - What turned you off? |
16 Apr 2005 10:26:39 AM |
|
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On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 07:05:00 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 04:42:43 GMT in free.christians, Bible Bob (Bible
Bob <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net>) said, directing the reply to
free.christians
I just finished reading Michelle Malkin's atheist quote of the month
nomination of Mark Bilbo's statement.
Over the past year or so I have seen several atheists comment about
negative experiences in the Christian church. I was an atheist until
I became a Christian in 1976, but had no church exposure until after I
became a Christian - except for my mom running off on my dad and us
six kids to become a nun when I was ten (fortuinately she changed her
mind and came back to us and became an alcoholic instead).
My negative experiences with different church groups came after I was
a Christian so my perspective is different. I consider some of their
behavior and doctrines treasonous; but from the perspective of a
violation of trust.
I would like to know from atheists that attended church what organized
religion did that harmed them or angered them the most.
What turned me off religion? Mostly that it's not true!
Therion,
Truth is what drew me away from religion to the Bible
Non-commercial website where everything is free.
http://www.biblebob.net
BB
.
|
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|
| User: "Therion Ware" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheists - What turned you off? |
16 Apr 2005 10:56:39 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 15:26:39 GMT in alt.atheism, Bible Bob (Bible Bob
<biblebobnospam@biblebob.net>) said, directing the reply to
alt.atheism
On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 07:05:00 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 04:42:43 GMT in free.christians, Bible Bob (Bible
Bob <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net>) said, directing the reply to
free.christians
I just finished reading Michelle Malkin's atheist quote of the month
nomination of Mark Bilbo's statement.
Over the past year or so I have seen several atheists comment about
negative experiences in the Christian church. I was an atheist until
I became a Christian in 1976, but had no church exposure until after I
became a Christian - except for my mom running off on my dad and us
six kids to become a nun when I was ten (fortuinately she changed her
mind and came back to us and became an alcoholic instead).
My negative experiences with different church groups came after I was
a Christian so my perspective is different. I consider some of their
behavior and doctrines treasonous; but from the perspective of a
violation of trust.
I would like to know from atheists that attended church what organized
religion did that harmed them or angered them the most.
What turned me off religion? Mostly that it's not true!
Therion,
Truth is what drew me away from religion to the Bible
And not God? How very Protestant.
.
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| User: "Bible Bob" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheists - What turned you off? |
16 Apr 2005 11:37:02 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 16:56:39 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 15:26:39 GMT in alt.atheism, Bible Bob (Bible Bob
<biblebobnospam@biblebob.net>) said, directing the reply to
alt.atheism
On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 07:05:00 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 04:42:43 GMT in free.christians, Bible Bob (Bible
Bob <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net>) said, directing the reply to
free.christians
I just finished reading Michelle Malkin's atheist quote of the month
nomination of Mark Bilbo's statement.
Over the past year or so I have seen several atheists comment about
negative experiences in the Christian church. I was an atheist until
I became a Christian in 1976, but had no church exposure until after I
became a Christian - except for my mom running off on my dad and us
six kids to become a nun when I was ten (fortuinately she changed her
mind and came back to us and became an alcoholic instead).
My negative experiences with different church groups came after I was
a Christian so my perspective is different. I consider some of their
behavior and doctrines treasonous; but from the perspective of a
violation of trust.
I would like to know from atheists that attended church what organized
religion did that harmed them or angered them the most.
What turned me off religion? Mostly that it's not true!
Therion,
Truth is what drew me away from religion to the Bible
And not God? How very Protestant.
Therion,
Protestant? Not God?
I make no claims that God has "said" anything to me other than through
His Word. I protest against no specific church, rather people
pretending to be what they are not
Non-commercial website where everything is free.
http://www.biblebob.net
BB
.
|
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|
| User: "Peacenik" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheists - What turned you off? |
16 Apr 2005 11:12:54 PM |
|
|
"Bible Bob" <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote in message
news:09f261dsrug2rp3v0gghkdq5ie5qrl3jks@4ax.com...
On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 16:56:39 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
Truth is what drew me away from religion to the Bible
And not God? How very Protestant.
Therion,
Protestant? Not God?
I make no claims that God has "said" anything to me other than through
His Word. I protest against no specific church, rather people
pretending to be what they are not
You say your were driven away from religion, yet at the same time you
believe that the Bible is God's Word?
Contradiction!
Belief in God is a sufficuent condition for being religious.
.
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| User: "Bible Bob" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheists - What turned you off? |
16 Apr 2005 11:32:26 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 12:12:54 +0800, "Peacenik"
<cnelsonpublic@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Bible Bob" <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote in message
news:09f261dsrug2rp3v0gghkdq5ie5qrl3jks@4ax.com...
On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 16:56:39 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
Truth is what drew me away from religion to the Bible
And not God? How very Protestant.
Therion,
Protestant? Not God?
I make no claims that God has "said" anything to me other than through
His Word. I protest against no specific church, rather people
pretending to be what they are not
You say your were driven away from religion, yet at the same time you
believe that the Bible is God's Word?
Contradiction!
Belief in God is a sufficuent condition for being religious.
Peacenik,
Religion is the outward ceremonial things that people do. I strive
for godliness which is a true and vital spiritual realtionship with
God - a Father son relationship; not religion.
I said truth drew me away from religion to the Bible. I did not say
that I was driven away from religion.
I learned that God was love, yet the baptists and church of Christ
treied to teach me that God killed babies, God sent his kids to a
firey hell (that does not exist), that people went to heaven when they
died and all kinds of stupid stuff that did not agree with what the
Bible taught. Then the Methodists tried to teach me that the Bible
was full of lies and that Jesus wasn't really resurrected, but they
still wanted their money.
No. Religion didn't drive me away. I was drawn to the truth which
just happened to be the direction opposite the churches I attended.
Non-commercial website where everything is free.
http://www.biblebob.net
BB
.
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| User: "Peacenik" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheists - What turned you off? |
17 Apr 2005 12:16:08 AM |
|
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"Bible Bob" <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote in message
news:29p361dri8uvj2eh0faenfo7rq6s333ic7@4ax.com...
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 12:12:54 +0800, "Peacenik"
<cnelsonpublic@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Bible Bob" <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote in message
news:09f261dsrug2rp3v0gghkdq5ie5qrl3jks@4ax.com...
On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 16:56:39 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
Truth is what drew me away from religion to the Bible
And not God? How very Protestant.
Therion,
Protestant? Not God?
I make no claims that God has "said" anything to me other than through
His Word. I protest against no specific church, rather people
pretending to be what they are not
You say your were driven away from religion, yet at the same time you
believe that the Bible is God's Word?
Contradiction!
Belief in God is a sufficuent condition for being religious.
Peacenik,
Religion is the outward ceremonial things that people do.
No, that's "ritual".
You've committed a fallacy of redefinition. You can't simply redefine words
just to support your case.
I strive
for godliness which is a true and vital spiritual realtionship with
God - a Father son relationship; not religion.
A "vital spiritual relationship with God" IS religion. Sorry to burst your
bubble.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bible Bob" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheists - What turned you off? |
17 Apr 2005 01:51:39 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:16:08 +0800, "Peacenik"
<cnelsonpublic@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Bible Bob" <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote in message
news:29p361dri8uvj2eh0faenfo7rq6s333ic7@4ax.com...
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 12:12:54 +0800, "Peacenik"
<cnelsonpublic@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Bible Bob" <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote in message
news:09f261dsrug2rp3v0gghkdq5ie5qrl3jks@4ax.com...
On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 16:56:39 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
Truth is what drew me away from religion to the Bible
And not God? How very Protestant.
Therion,
Protestant? Not God?
I make no claims that God has "said" anything to me other than through
His Word. I protest against no specific church, rather people
pretending to be what they are not
You say your were driven away from religion, yet at the same time you
believe that the Bible is God's Word?
Contradiction!
Belief in God is a sufficuent condition for being religious.
Peacenik,
Religion is the outward ceremonial things that people do.
No, that's "ritual".
You've committed a fallacy of redefinition. You can't simply redefine words
just to support your case.
I strive
for godliness which is a true and vital spiritual realtionship with
God - a Father son relationship; not religion.
A "vital spiritual relationship with God" IS religion. Sorry to burst your
bubble.
My definition is older than you definition and more accurate.
You really shouldn't talk about what you do not understand. You
aren't equipped to burst my bubble
Religion is from the Greek word threskia and has to do with religious
observance, the outward ceremonial service of religion, the external
form (as opposed to eusebia, practical piety rightly directed).
Eusebia, translated godliness, is the worship of God, a true and vital
spiritual relationship between man and God or; as I said the
relationship between a Father and His child.
Non-commercial website where everything is free.
http://www.biblebob.net
BB
.
|
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| User: "J Forbes" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheists - What turned you off? |
17 Apr 2005 11:36:55 AM |
|
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Bible Bob wrote:
Religion is from the Greek word threskia and has to do with religious
observance, the outward ceremonial service of religion, the external
form (as opposed to eusebia, practical piety rightly directed).
Eusebia, translated godliness, is the worship of God, a true and vital
spiritual relationship between man and God or; as I said the
relationship between a Father and His child.
(cut cross-posting)
except that the "father" is actually the human, and the "child" is
actually the god....because the humans invented the god(s)....
--
Jim
Visit the Selectric Typewriter Museum!
http://www.selectric.org
.
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| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheists - What turned you off? |
17 Apr 2005 02:02:04 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 06:51:39 GMT, Bible Bob
<biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:16:08 +0800, "Peacenik"
<cnelsonpublic@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Bible Bob" <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote in message
news:29p361dri8uvj2eh0faenfo7rq6s333ic7@4ax.com...
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 12:12:54 +0800, "Peacenik"
<cnelsonpublic@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Bible Bob" <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote in message
news:09f261dsrug2rp3v0gghkdq5ie5qrl3jks@4ax.com...
On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 16:56:39 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
Truth is what drew me away from religion to the Bible
And not God? How very Protestant.
Therion,
Protestant? Not God?
I make no claims that God has "said" anything to me other than through
His Word. I protest against no specific church, rather people
pretending to be what they are not
You say your were driven away from religion, yet at the same time you
believe that the Bible is God's Word?
Contradiction!
Belief in God is a sufficuent condition for being religious.
Peacenik,
Religion is the outward ceremonial things that people do.
No, that's "ritual".
You've committed a fallacy of redefinition. You can't simply redefine words
just to support your case.
I strive
for godliness which is a true and vital spiritual realtionship with
God - a Father son relationship; not religion.
A "vital spiritual relationship with God" IS religion. Sorry to burst your
bubble.
My definition is older than you definition and more accurate.
You really shouldn't talk about what you do not understand. You
aren't equipped to burst my bubble
Religion is from the Greek word threskia and has to do with religious
observance, the outward ceremonial service of religion, the external
form (as opposed to eusebia, practical piety rightly directed).
Eusebia, translated godliness, is the worship of God, a true and vital
spiritual relationship between man and God or; as I said the
relationship between a Father and His child.
I trust you're aware of begging myraid questions.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
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| User: "Bible Bob" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheists - What turned you off? |
17 Apr 2005 03:49:53 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 12:02:04 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 06:51:39 GMT, Bible Bob
<biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:16:08 +0800, "Peacenik"
<cnelsonpublic@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Bible Bob" <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote in message
news:29p361dri8uvj2eh0faenfo7rq6s333ic7@4ax.com...
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 12:12:54 +0800, "Peacenik"
<cnelsonpublic@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Bible Bob" <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote in message
news:09f261dsrug2rp3v0gghkdq5ie5qrl3jks@4ax.com...
On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 16:56:39 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
Truth is what drew me away from religion to the Bible
And not God? How very Protestant.
Therion,
Protestant? Not God?
I make no claims that God has "said" anything to me other than through
His Word. I protest against no specific church, rather people
pretending to be what they are not
You say your were driven away from religion, yet at the same time you
believe that the Bible is God's Word?
Contradiction!
Belief in God is a sufficuent condition for being religious.
Peacenik,
Religion is the outward ceremonial things that people do.
No, that's "ritual".
You've committed a fallacy of redefinition. You can't simply redefine words
just to support your case.
I strive
for godliness which is a true and vital spiritual realtionship with
God - a Father son relationship; not religion.
A "vital spiritual relationship with God" IS religion. Sorry to burst your
bubble.
My definition is older than you definition and more accurate.
You really shouldn't talk about what you do not understand. You
aren't equipped to burst my bubble
Religion is from the Greek word threskia and has to do with religious
observance, the outward ceremonial service of religion, the external
form (as opposed to eusebia, practical piety rightly directed).
Eusebia, translated godliness, is the worship of God, a true and vital
spiritual relationship between man and God or; as I said the
relationship between a Father and His child.
I trust you're aware of begging myraid questions.
No and Yahoo isn't either. What is "begging myriad questions"? IS
that some sort of literary style? Or maybe some scientific term that
I am not aware of?
Non-commercial website where everything is free.
http://www.biblebob.net
BB
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark Stahl" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheists - What turned you off? |
17 Apr 2005 04:52:36 PM |
|
|
"Bible Bob" <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote in message
news:ssi561dbdv7i0f4m747ib2hcvointap985@4ax.com...
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 12:02:04 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 06:51:39 GMT, Bible Bob
<biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:16:08 +0800, "Peacenik"
<cnelsonpublic@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Bible Bob" <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote in message
news:29p361dri8uvj2eh0faenfo7rq6s333ic7@4ax.com...
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 12:12:54 +0800, "Peacenik"
<cnelsonpublic@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Bible Bob" <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote in message
news:09f261dsrug2rp3v0gghkdq5ie5qrl3jks@4ax.com...
On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 16:56:39 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
Truth is what drew me away from religion to the Bible
And not God? How very Protestant.
Therion,
Protestant? Not God?
I make no claims that God has "said" anything to me other than
through
His Word. I protest against no specific church, rather people
pretending to be what they are not
You say your were driven away from religion, yet at the same time you
believe that the Bible is God's Word?
Contradiction!
Belief in God is a sufficuent condition for being religious.
Peacenik,
Religion is the outward ceremonial things that people do.
No, that's "ritual".
You've committed a fallacy of redefinition. You can't simply redefine
words
just to support your case.
I strive
for godliness which is a true and vital spiritual realtionship with
God - a Father son relationship; not religion.
A "vital spiritual relationship with God" IS religion. Sorry to burst
your
bubble.
My definition is older than you definition and more accurate.
You really shouldn't talk about what you do not understand. You
aren't equipped to burst my bubble
Religion is from the Greek word threskia and has to do with religious
observance, the outward ceremonial service of religion, the external
form (as opposed to eusebia, practical piety rightly directed).
Eusebia, translated godliness, is the worship of God, a true and vital
spiritual relationship between man and God or; as I said the
relationship between a Father and His child.
I trust you're aware of begging myraid questions.
No and Yahoo isn't either. What is "begging myriad questions"? IS
that some sort of literary style? Or maybe some scientific term that
I am not aware of?
A logical fallacy that you are very guilty of.
.
|
|
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| User: "Bible Bob" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheists - What turned you off? |
17 Apr 2005 06:29:12 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 17:52:36 -0400, "Mark Stahl"
<stahl@nospam.aecom.yu.edu> wrote:
"Bible Bob" <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote in message
news:ssi561dbdv7i0f4m747ib2hcvointap985@4ax.com...
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 12:02:04 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 06:51:39 GMT, Bible Bob
<biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:16:08 +0800, "Peacenik"
<cnelsonpublic@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Bible Bob" <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote in message
news:29p361dri8uvj2eh0faenfo7rq6s333ic7@4ax.com...
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 12:12:54 +0800, "Peacenik"
<cnelsonpublic@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Bible Bob" <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote in message
news:09f261dsrug2rp3v0gghkdq5ie5qrl3jks@4ax.com...
On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 16:56:39 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
Truth is what drew me away from religion to the Bible
And not God? How very Protestant.
Therion,
Protestant? Not God?
I make no claims that God has "said" anything to me other than
through
His Word. I protest against no specific church, rather people
pretending to be what they are not
You say your were driven away from religion, yet at the same time you
believe that the Bible is God's Word?
Contradiction!
Belief in God is a sufficuent condition for being religious.
Peacenik,
Religion is the outward ceremonial things that people do.
No, that's "ritual".
You've committed a fallacy of redefinition. You can't simply redefine
words
just to support your case.
I strive
for godliness which is a true and vital spiritual realtionship with
God - a Father son relationship; not religion.
A "vital spiritual relationship with God" IS religion. Sorry to burst
your
bubble.
My definition is older than you definition and more accurate.
You really shouldn't talk about what you do not understand. You
aren't equipped to burst my bubble
Religion is from the Greek word threskia and has to do with religious
observance, the outward ceremonial service of religion, the external
form (as opposed to eusebia, practical piety rightly directed).
Eusebia, translated godliness, is the worship of God, a true and vital
spiritual relationship between man and God or; as I said the
relationship between a Father and His child.
I trust you're aware of begging myraid questions.
No and Yahoo isn't either. What is "begging myriad questions"? IS
that some sort of literary style? Or maybe some scientific term that
I am not aware of?
A logical fallacy that you are very guilty of.
Mark,
You have proven yourself to be less than credible. I will wait for
the definition from the guy that made the statement.
Non-commercial website where everything is free.
http://www.biblebob.net
BB
.
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| User: "Mark Stahl" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheists - What turned you off? |
18 Apr 2005 08:15:32 PM |
|
|
"Bible Bob" <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote in message
news:79s561hq1kvpm6g6kk8bmaiat69a57sn0m@4ax.com...
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 17:52:36 -0400, "Mark Stahl"
<stahl@nospam.aecom.yu.edu> wrote:
"Bible Bob" <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote in message
news:ssi561dbdv7i0f4m747ib2hcvointap985@4ax.com...
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 12:02:04 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 06:51:39 GMT, Bible Bob
<biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:16:08 +0800, "Peacenik"
<cnelsonpublic@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Bible Bob" <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote in message
news:29p361dri8uvj2eh0faenfo7rq6s333ic7@4ax.com...
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 12:12:54 +0800, "Peacenik"
<cnelsonpublic@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Bible Bob" <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote in message
news:09f261dsrug2rp3v0gghkdq5ie5qrl3jks@4ax.com...
On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 16:56:39 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
Truth is what drew me away from religion to the Bible
And not God? How very Protestant.
Therion,
Protestant? Not God?
I make no claims that God has "said" anything to me other than
through
His Word. I protest against no specific church, rather people
pretending to be what they are not
You say your were driven away from religion, yet at the same time
you
believe that the Bible is God's Word?
Contradiction!
Belief in God is a sufficuent condition for being religious.
Peacenik,
Religion is the outward ceremonial things that people do.
No, that's "ritual".
You've committed a fallacy of redefinition. You can't simply redefine
words
just to support your case.
I strive
for godliness which is a true and vital spiritual realtionship with
God - a Father son relationship; not religion.
A "vital spiritual relationship with God" IS religion. Sorry to burst
your
bubble.
My definition is older than you definition and more accurate.
You really shouldn't talk about what you do not understand. You
aren't equipped to burst my bubble
Religion is from the Greek word threskia and has to do with religious
observance, the outward ceremonial service of religion, the external
form (as opposed to eusebia, practical piety rightly directed).
Eusebia, translated godliness, is the worship of God, a true and vital
spiritual relationship between man and God or; as I said the
relationship between a Father and His child.
I trust you're aware of begging myraid questions.
No and Yahoo isn't either. What is "begging myriad questions"? IS
that some sort of literary style? Or maybe some scientific term that
I am not aware of?
A logical fallacy that you are very guilty of.
Mark,
You have proven yourself to be less than credible.
Only in your deluded little mind. Show me where my credibility is
questioned, or apologize.
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| User: "Tim McGaughy" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists - What turned you off? |
17 Apr 2005 07:47:43 PM |
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Bible Bob wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 17:52:36 -0400, "Mark Stahl"
<stahl@nospam.aecom.yu.edu> wrote:
You really shouldn't talk about what you do not understand. You
aren't equipped to burst my bubble
Religion is from the Greek word threskia and has to do with religious
observance, the outward ceremonial service of religion, the external
form (as opposed to eusebia, practical piety rightly directed).
Eusebia, translated godliness, is the worship of God, a true and vital
spiritual relationship between man and God or; as I said the
relationship between a Father and His child.
I trust you're aware of begging myraid questions.
No and Yahoo isn't either. What is "begging myriad questions"? IS
that some sort of literary style? Or maybe some scientific term that
I am not aware of?
A logical fallacy that you are very guilty of.
Mark,
You have proven yourself to be less than credible. I will wait for
the definition from the guy that made the statement.
It wasn't me, but here's a link with a good definition, complete with
coherent examples.
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/begging-the-question.html
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| User: "Bible Bob" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists - What turned you off? |
17 Apr 2005 11:37:47 PM |
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On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:47:43 -0500, Tim McGaughy <teekem@ispwest.com>
wrote:
Bible Bob wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 17:52:36 -0400, "Mark Stahl"
<stahl@nospam.aecom.yu.edu> wrote:
You really shouldn't talk about what you do not understand. You
aren't equipped to burst my bubble
Religion is from the Greek word threskia and has to do with religious
observance, the outward ceremonial service of religion, the external
form (as opposed to eusebia, practical piety rightly directed).
Eusebia, translated godliness, is the worship of God, a true and vital
spiritual relationship between man and God or; as I said the
relationship between a Father and His child.
I trust you're aware of begging myraid questions.
No and Yahoo isn't either. What is "begging myriad questions"? IS
that some sort of literary style? Or maybe some scientific term that
I am not aware of?
A logical fallacy that you are very guilty of.
Mark,
You have proven yourself to be less than credible. I will wait for
the definition from the guy that made the statement.
It wasn't me, but here's a link with a good definition, complete with
coherent examples.
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/begging-the-question.html
Tim,
Thank you. That made sense.
Okay, now back to the discussion. I was conversing with Peacenik and
answered his comment with fact. Stoney butted into the conversation
and asked me if I was aware of begging myriad questions which had
nothing to do with the conversation between Peacenik and I. However,
since Peacenik was begging myraid questions Stoney might have been
addressing Peacenik and would have been right in doing so.
I said:
"Truth is what drew me away from religion to the Bible"
Peacenik said:
You say your were driven away from religion, yet at the same time you
believe that the Bible is God's Word?
Contradiction!
Belief in God is a sufficuent condition for being religious.
If you compare what I said to what Peacenik said I said then you will
see that Peacenik was mistaken.
I said:
Peacenik,
Religion is the outward ceremonial things that people do.
I strive for godliness which is a true and vital spiritual
realtionship with God - a Father son relationship; not religion.
Peacenik said:
No, that's "ritual".
You've committed a fallacy of redefinition. You can't simply redefine
words just to support your case.
A "vital spiritual relationship with God" IS religion. Sorry to burst
your bubble.
I said:
My definition is older than you definition and more accurate.
You really shouldn't talk about what you do not understand. You
aren't equipped to burst my bubble
Religion is from the Greek word threskia and has to do with religious
observance, the outward ceremonial service of religion, the external
form (as opposed to eusebia, practical piety rightly directed).
Eusebia, translated godliness, is the worship of God, a true and vital
spiritual relationship between man and God or; as I said the
relationship between a Father and His child.
Obviously I was right because I gave the definition of Greek words
that the English words were translated from which predated the English
words and were more accurate. There was no fallacy of redefinition
and no begging myriad questions.
Stoney either to rescue Peacenik from sudden death or to correct
Peacenik or to flame me posted:
I trust you're aware of begging myraid questions.
And the rest is history.
I think that the problem here is that Peacenik and Stoney think that I
came to debate or argue when in fact I repeatedly said and meant that
I came only to ask a question and to get answers.
Non-commercial website where everything is free.
http://www.biblebob.net
BB
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| User: "Just Mark" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists - What turned you off? |
18 Apr 2005 11:09:56 AM |
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"Bible Bob" <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote in message
news:b6d661pm7g46701jsvs7ctves8ps2dul55@4ax.com...
: On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:47:43 -0500, Tim McGaughy <teekem@ispwest.com>
: wrote:
:
<snip>
:
: I think that the problem here is that Peacenik and Stoney think that I
: came to debate or argue when in fact I repeatedly said and meant that
: I came only to ask a question and to get answers.
:
Not really argument. Think of it as "Socratic dialogue".
JM
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists - What turned you off? |
18 Apr 2005 11:44:30 AM |
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On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 16:09:56 GMT, "Just Mark"
<neverassumeyouknow@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Bible Bob" <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote in message
news:b6d661pm7g46701jsvs7ctves8ps2dul55@4ax.com...
: On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:47:43 -0500, Tim McGaughy <teekem@ispwest.com>
: wrote:
:
<snip>
:
: I think that the problem here is that Peacenik and Stoney think that I
: came to debate or argue when in fact I repeatedly said and meant that
: I came only to ask a question and to get answers.
A loaded question based on invented "reasons" why people aren't
theist.
He came here to troll.
Not really argument. Think of it as "Socratic dialogue".
The problem is that the questions were from a perspective that he
already knew doesn't even apply and there was no attempt to interpret
them from any other perspective than his own - which he had already
been told several times doesn't even apply outside his religion.
He is doing it deliberately - for example his talk of the atheists
"religious beliefs" when, again, he had been corrected on this several
times.
He's a button-pushing troll. Or else extremely stupid.
JM
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| User: "Just Mark" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists - What turned you off? |
18 Apr 2005 12:41:26 PM |
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"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:0oo761h0lo5607pct2tm5qpp35j5equlv6@4ax.com...
: On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 16:09:56 GMT, "Just Mark"
: <neverassumeyouknow@yahoo.com> wrote:
:
: >
: >"Bible Bob" <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote in message
: >news:b6d661pm7g46701jsvs7ctves8ps2dul55@4ax.com...
: >: On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:47:43 -0500, Tim McGaughy <teekem@ispwest.com>
: >: wrote:
: >:
: ><snip>
: >:
: >: I think that the problem here is that Peacenik and Stoney think that I
: >: came to debate or argue when in fact I repeatedly said and meant that
: >: I came only to ask a question and to get answers.
:
: A loaded question based on invented "reasons" why people aren't
: theist.
:
: He came here to troll.
:
: >Not really argument. Think of it as "Socratic dialogue".
:
: The problem is that the questions were from a perspective that he
: already knew doesn't even apply and there was no attempt to interpret
: them from any other perspective than his own - which he had already
: been told several times doesn't even apply outside his religion.
:
: He is doing it deliberately - for example his talk of the atheists
: "religious beliefs" when, again, he had been corrected on this several
: times.
He could be a-trollin', sure. Don't dismiss the possibility that he might
learn something in spite of himself.
It happened to me when I came to a.a., doing the same sort of thing BB is
doing. Ya'll got me to thinking...for the first time in my life. The same
thing could happen to Bob if he humbles himself a bit.
Just Mark
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists - What turned you off? |
19 Apr 2005 06:53:23 PM |
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On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 17:41:26 GMT, "Just Mark"
<neverassumeyouknow@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:0oo761h0lo5607pct2tm5qpp35j5equlv6@4ax.com...
: On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 16:09:56 GMT, "Just Mark"
: <neverassumeyouknow@yahoo.com> wrote:
:
: >
: >"Bible Bob" <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote in message
: >news:b6d661pm7g46701jsvs7ctves8ps2dul55@4ax.com...
: >: On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:47:43 -0500, Tim McGaughy <teekem@ispwest.com>
: >: wrote:
: >:
: ><snip>
: >:
: >: I think that the problem here is that Peacenik and Stoney think that I
: >: came to debate or argue when in fact I repeatedly said and meant that
: >: I came only to ask a question and to get answers.
:
: A loaded question based on invented "reasons" why people aren't
: theist.
:
: He came here to troll.
:
: >Not really argument. Think of it as "Socratic dialogue".
:
: The problem is that the questions were from a perspective that he
: already knew doesn't even apply and there was no attempt to interpret
: them from any other perspective than his own - which he had already
: been told several times doesn't even apply outside his religion.
:
: He is doing it deliberately - for example his talk of the atheists
: "religious beliefs" when, again, he had been corrected on this several
: times.
He could be a-trollin', sure. Don't dismiss the possibility that he might
learn something in spite of himself.
It happened to me when I came to a.a., doing the same sort of thing BB is
doing. Ya'll got me to thinking...for the first time in my life. The same
thing could happen to Bob if he humbles himself a bit.
Bumbling Bob is only interested in trolling. What you indicate though
is correct. One of those who travelled the path you indicate is
"MrD." He was patiently corrected over and over, and shown how and
why. The gentleman was always polite and his rebuttals were patiently
and gently dealt with, mainly by Wayne Delia. It took time, but
finally what was being indicated cracked through the imposed 'mental
deflector shields' and hit his 'shift registers.' The end result was
the shattering of the mental slave chains.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists - What turned you off? |
18 Apr 2005 12:50:17 PM |
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On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 17:41:26 GMT, "Just Mark"
<neverassumeyouknow@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:0oo761h0lo5607pct2tm5qpp35j5equlv6@4ax.com...
: On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 16:09:56 GMT, "Just Mark"
: <neverassumeyouknow@yahoo.com> wrote:
:
: >
: >"Bible Bob" <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote in message
: >news:b6d661pm7g46701jsvs7ctves8ps2dul55@4ax.com...
: >: On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:47:43 -0500, Tim McGaughy <teekem@ispwest.com>
: >: wrote:
: >:
: ><snip>
: >:
: >: I think that the problem here is that Peacenik and Stoney think that I
: >: came to debate or argue when in fact I repeatedly said and meant that
: >: I came only to ask a question and to get answers.
:
: A loaded question based on invented "reasons" why people aren't
: theist.
:
: He came here to troll.
:
: >Not really argument. Think of it as "Socratic dialogue".
:
: The problem is that the questions were from a perspective that he
: already knew doesn't even apply and there was no attempt to interpret
: them from any other perspective than his own - which he had already
: been told several times doesn't even apply outside his religion.
:
: He is doing it deliberately - for example his talk of the atheists
: "religious beliefs" when, again, he had been corrected on this several
: times.
He could be a-trollin', sure. Don't dismiss the possibility that he might
learn something in spite of himself.
It happened to me when I came to a.a., doing the same sort of thing BB is
doing. Ya'll got me to thinking...for the first time in my life. The same
thing could happen to Bob if he humbles himself a bit.
It's already been explained to him several times. The first time could
have been an honest mistake on his part. Doing it repeatedly is
something else.
At best it is fundy cognitive dissonance. When he quotes it but
ignores it and merely says "have a nice day" that is deliberate.
He's lied to me several times in other threads about "offending" my
"religious beliefs" instead of listening to what he is told.
He's trolling all right.
Just Mark
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| User: "Just Mark" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists - What turned you off? |
18 Apr 2005 01:15:05 PM |
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"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:cjs761h0v7jgj0a3d9emqtal9uu2go74lv@4ax.com...
: On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 17:41:26 GMT, "Just Mark"
: <neverassumeyouknow@yahoo.com> wrote:
:
: >
: >"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
: >news:0oo761h0lo5607pct2tm5qpp35j5equlv6@4ax.com...
: >: On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 16:09:56 GMT, "Just Mark"
: >: <neverassumeyouknow@yahoo.com> wrote:
: >:
: >: >
: >: >"Bible Bob" <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote in message
: >: >news:b6d661pm7g46701jsvs7ctves8ps2dul55@4ax.com...
: >: >: On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:47:43 -0500, Tim McGaughy
<teekem@ispwest.com>
: >: >: wrote:
: >: >:
: >: ><snip>
: >: >:
: >: >: I think that the problem here is that Peacenik and Stoney think that
I
: >: >: came to debate or argue when in fact I repeatedly said and meant
that
: >: >: I came only to ask a question and to get answers.
: >:
: >: A loaded question based on invented "reasons" why people aren't
: >: theist.
: >:
: >: He came here to troll.
: >:
: >: >Not really argument. Think of it as "Socratic dialogue".
: >:
: >: The problem is that the questions were from a perspective that he
: >: already knew doesn't even apply and there was no attempt to interpret
: >: them from any other perspective than his own - which he had already
: >: been told several times doesn't even apply outside his religion.
: >:
: >: He is doing it deliberately - for example his talk of the atheists
: >: "religious beliefs" when, again, he had been corrected on this several
: >: times.
: >
: >He could be a-trollin', sure. Don't dismiss the possibility that he
might
: >learn something in spite of himself.
: >
: >It happened to me when I came to a.a., doing the same sort of thing BB is
: >doing. Ya'll got me to thinking...for the first time in my life. The
same
: >thing could happen to Bob if he humbles himself a bit.
:
: It's already been explained to him several times. The first time could
: have been an honest mistake on his part. Doing it repeatedly is
: something else.
:
: At best it is fundy cognitive dissonance. When he quotes it but
: ignores it and merely says "have a nice day" that is deliberate.
:
: He's lied to me several times in other threads about "offending" my
: "religious beliefs" instead of listening to what he is told.
:
: He's trolling all right.
:
Hmmm....pity.
JM
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| User: "Bible Bob" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists - What turned you off? |
18 Apr 2005 12:19:21 PM |
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On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:44:30 -0400, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 16:09:56 GMT, "Just Mark"
<neverassumeyouknow@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Bible Bob" <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote in message
news:b6d661pm7g46701jsvs7ctves8ps2dul55@4ax.com...
: On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:47:43 -0500, Tim McGaughy <teekem@ispwest.com>
: wrote:
:
<snip>
:
: I think that the problem here is that Peacenik and Stoney think that I
: came to debate or argue when in fact I repeatedly said and meant that
: I came only to ask a question and to get answers.
A loaded question based on invented "reasons" why people aren't
theist.
He came here to troll.
Not really argument. Think of it as "Socratic dialogue".
The problem is that the questions were from a perspective that he
already knew doesn't even apply and there was no attempt to interpret
them from any other perspective than his own - which he had already
been told several times doesn't even apply outside his religion.
He is doing it deliberately - for example his talk of the atheists
"religious beliefs" when, again, he had been corrected on this several
times.
He's a button-pushing troll. Or else extremely stupid.
JM
You are mistaken
Non-commercial website where everything is free.
http://www.biblebob.net
BB
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists - What turned you off? |
18 Apr 2005 12:29:46 PM |
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On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 17:19:21 GMT, Bible Bob
<biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:44:30 -0400, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 16:09:56 GMT, "Just Mark"
<neverassumeyouknow@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Bible Bob" <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote in message
news:b6d661pm7g46701jsvs7ctves8ps2dul55@4ax.com...
: On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:47:43 -0500, Tim McGaughy <teekem@ispwest.com>
: wrote:
:
<snip>
:
: I think that the problem here is that Peacenik and Stoney think that I
: came to debate or argue when in fact I repeatedly said and meant that
: I came only to ask a question and to get answers.
A loaded question based on invented "reasons" why people aren't
theist.
He came here to troll.
Not really argument. Think of it as "Socratic dialogue".
The problem is that the questions were from a perspective that he
already knew doesn't even apply and there was no attempt to interpret
them from any other perspective than his own - which he had already
been told several times doesn't even apply outside his religion.
He is doing it deliberately - for example his talk of the atheists
"religious beliefs" when, again, he had been corrected on this several
times.
He's a button-pushing troll. Or else extremely stupid.
JM
You are mistaken
You show no evidence of listening. Now or previously. You ask
questions based on invalid presumptions. You rationalise falsehoods as
"reasons" people don't believe what you do. You ignore correction.
The conclusion is obvious.
Stop pretending.
Non-commercial website where everything is free.
http://www.biblebob.net
BB
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| User: "skyeyes" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists - What turned you off? |
18 Apr 2005 05:57:11 PM |
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Christopher A. Lee wrote:
You show no evidence of listening. Now or previously. You ask
questions based on invalid presumptions. You rationalise falsehoods as
"reasons" people don't believe what you do. You ignore correction.
The conclusion is obvious.
Two words: "Twit" "List"
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists - What turned you off? |
18 Apr 2005 12:45:22 AM |
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Bible Bob wrote:
Contradiction!
Belief in God is a sufficuent condition for being religious.
If you compare what I said to what Peacenik said I said then you will
see that Peacenik was mistaken.
I said:
Peacenik,
Religion is the outward ceremonial things that people do.
I strive for godliness which is a true and vital spiritual
realtionship with God - a Father son relationship; not religion.
Peacenik said:
No, that's "ritual".
You've committed a fallacy of redefinition. You can't simply redefine
words just to support your case.
A "vital spiritual relationship with God" IS religion. Sorry to burst
your bubble.
I said:
My definition is older than you definition and more accurate.
You imply that words don't change in meaning over time which is a silly
idea at best.
Words change both over time, location and their use in phrases (Which is one
reason why using a concordance is of little value to scholars)
A cool day can be hot.
A hot day can be hot.
A blizzard can kill you on a hot July afternoon.
And your friend might get a kick out of you making love to his wife at a
popular restaurant.
Those are English sentences and you CAN NOT tell me what they mean unless
you know the period in which they might have been written.
You also seem to claim as you do with all your religious talk that yours is
the only correct answer, yet you talk about me when I ask for what it is
that makes you the One True Scotsman. (Martin Luther also believed he was
the True Scotsman.)
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists - What turned you off? |
18 Apr 2005 01:22:15 PM |
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On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 20:49:53 GMT, Bible Bob
<biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 12:02:04 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 06:51:39 GMT, Bible Bob
<biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote:
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:16:08 +0800, "Peacenik"
<cnelsonpublic@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Bible Bob" <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote in message
news:29p361dri8uvj2eh0faenfo7rq6s333ic7@4ax.com...
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 12:12:54 +0800, "Peacenik"
<cnelsonpublic@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Bible Bob" <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote in message
news:09f261dsrug2rp3v0gghkdq5ie5qrl3jks@4ax.com...
On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 16:56:39 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
Truth is what drew me away from religion to the Bible
And not God? How very Protestant.
Therion,
Protestant? Not God?
I make no claims that God has "said" anything to me other than through
His Word. I protest against no specific church, rather people
pretending to be what they are not
You say your were driven away from religion, yet at the same time you
believe that the Bible is God's Word?
Contradiction!
Belief in God is a sufficuent condition for being religious.
Peacenik,
Religion is the outward ceremonial things that people do.
No, that's "ritual".
You've committed a fallacy of redefinition. You can't simply redefine words
just to support your case.
I strive
for godliness which is a true and vital spiritual realtionship with
God - a Father son relationship; not religion.
A "vital spiritual relationship with God" IS religion. Sorry to burst your
bubble.
My definition is older than you definition and more accurate.
You really shouldn't talk about what you do not understand. You
aren't equipped to burst my bubble
Religion is from the Greek word threskia and has to do with religious
observance, the outward ceremonial service of religion, the external
form (as opposed to eusebia, practical piety rightly directed).
Eusebia, translated godliness, is the worship of God, a true and vital
spiritual relationship between man and God or; as I said the
relationship between a Father and His child.
I trust you're aware of begging myraid questions.
No and Yahoo isn't either. What is "begging myriad questions"? IS
that some sort of literary style? Or maybe some scientific term that
I am not aware of?
Sorry, I misspelled 'myriad.' Myriad=many
Logical Fallacies
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/begging-the-question.html
Also Known as: Circular Reasoning, Reasoning in a Circle, Petitio
Principii.
Description of Begging the Question
Begging the Question is a fallacy in which the premises include the
claim that the conclusion is true or (directly or indirectly) assume
that the conclusion is true. This sort of "reasoning" typically has
the following form.
1. Premises in which the truth of the conclusion is claimed or the
truth of the conclusion is assumed (either directly or indirectly).
2. Claim C (the conclusion) is true.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because simply assuming that
the conclusion is true (directly or indirectly) in the premises does
not constitute evidence for that conclusion. Obviously, simply
assuming a claim is true does not serve as evidence for that claim.
This is especially clear in particularly blatant cases: "X is true.
The evidence for this claim is that X is true."
Some cases of question begging are fairly blatant, while others can be
extremely subtle.
Examples of Begging the Question
1. Bill: "God must exist."
Jill: "How do you know."
Bill: "Because the Bible says so."
Jill: "Why should I believe the Bible?"
Bill: "Because the Bible was written by God."
2. "If such actions were not illegal, then they would not be
prohibited by the law."
3. "The belief in God is universal. After all, everyone believes in
God."
4. Interviewer: "Your resume looks impressive but I need another
reference."
Bill: "Jill can give me a good reference."
Interviewer: "Good. But how do I know that Jill is trustworthy?"
Bill: "Certainly. I can vouch for her."
/end
So "begging myriad questions" means 'begging many questions.'
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
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| User: "Tim McGaughy" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists - What turned you off? |
17 Apr 2005 01:52:49 PM |
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Peacenik wrote:
Belief in God is a sufficuent condition for being religious.
Peacenik,
Religion is the outward ceremonial things that people do.
No, that's "ritual".
You've committed a fallacy of redefinition. You can't simply redefine words
just to support your case.
Nope. That's one of the two most common definitions. Yours is the other.
Look it up. Yer both right, and now you must decide which of those
definitions you want to use for the purposes of this discussion.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=religion
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| User: "Bible Bob" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists - What turned you off? |
17 Apr 2005 03:41:38 PM |
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On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:52:49 -0500, Tim McGaughy <teekem@ispwest.com>
wrote:
Peacenik wrote:
Belief in God is a sufficuent condition for being religious.
Peacenik,
Religion is the outward ceremonial things that people do.
No, that's "ritual".
You've committed a fallacy of redefinition. You can't simply redefine words
just to support your case.
Nope. That's one of the two most common definitions. Yours is the other.
Look it up. Yer both right, and now you must decide which of those
definitions you want to use for the purposes of this discussion.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=religion
Thanks Tim,
That's different from what Meriam Webster says, but I looked up
religious rather than religion.
Since we are talking about the Bible, it would be wise to use the
Bible definition.
Non-commercial website where everything is free.
http://www.biblebob.net
BB
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| User: "Peacenik" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists - What turned you off? |
17 Apr 2005 08:12:19 PM |
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"Bible Bob" <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote in message
news:oai561lddhpo53r61mmcc427r7ehm94vch@4ax.com...
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:52:49 -0500, Tim McGaughy <teekem@ispwest.com>
wrote:
Peacenik wrote:
Belief in God is a sufficuent condition for being religious.
Peacenik,
Religion is the outward ceremonial things that people do.
No, that's "ritual".
You've committed a fallacy of redefinition. You can't simply redefine
words
just to support your case.
Nope. That's one of the two most common definitions. Yours is the other.
Look it up. Yer both right, and now you must decide which of those
definitions you want to use for the purposes of this discussion.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=religion
Thanks Tim,
That's different from what Meriam Webster says, but I looked up
religious rather than religion.
What is this? A theist tag-team in alt.atheism?
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