| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"OK" |
| Date: |
28 Oct 2006 04:15:16 PM |
| Object: |
atheists and fate and luck |
dear readers,
i am trying to sort some things out here. i just replied to an email
today from a friend who is an orthodox priest. he told me about my fate
in this letter. i was disturbed by this. i didn't think orthodox
priests were supposed to believe in fate. now my father who is an
agnostic jew is a fatalist, but that is ok for him. so i am wondering
what atheists think about fate. also earlier this year an orthodox
hierarch wrote about his luck in regards to me being nothing, and again
this struck me as odd because i did not think orthodox hierarchs were
supposed to believe in luck. i know an orthodox missionary who is
thoroughly opposed to the idea of luck, and everyone knows this about
that person. so again, i am wondering what the atheists think about
luck. i am on a fishing expedition for clarity of my own thoughts,
particularly in regards to fate. i think this priest is ill advising me
and i told him so, but i need evidence to back up my claim, especially
considering he was a university professor and he is twice my age.
regards,
ok
.
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| User: "George Ricker" |
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| Title: Re: atheists and fate and luck |
29 Oct 2006 08:21:31 AM |
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In article <ELP0h.17446$TV3.13558@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
OK <OK@nospamsnet.net> wrote:
dear readers,
i am trying to sort some things out here. i just replied to an email
today from a friend who is an orthodox priest. he told me about my fate
in this letter. i was disturbed by this. i didn't think orthodox
priests were supposed to believe in fate. now my father who is an
agnostic jew is a fatalist, but that is ok for him. so i am wondering
what atheists think about fate. also earlier this year an orthodox
hierarch wrote about his luck in regards to me being nothing, and again
this struck me as odd because i did not think orthodox hierarchs were
supposed to believe in luck. i know an orthodox missionary who is
thoroughly opposed to the idea of luck, and everyone knows this about
that person. so again, i am wondering what the atheists think about
luck. i am on a fishing expedition for clarity of my own thoughts,
particularly in regards to fate. i think this priest is ill advising me
and i told him so, but i need evidence to back up my claim, especially
considering he was a university professor and he is twice my age.
regards,
ok
Stuff happens. Sometimes it happens for no apparent reason. Sometimes
you can make stuff happen, and sometimes other people can make stuff
happen that affects you. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it
doesn't. Sometimes it does both, depending upon where you sit.
There doesn't appear to be evidence for anything more than that.
--
George Ricker
"Godless in America" by George Ricker is now available at
online book sellers, like amazon.com, and most book retailers.
Go to http://www.godlessinamerica.com for more information.
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: atheists and fate and luck |
29 Oct 2006 01:32:42 AM |
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In article <ELP0h.17446$TV3.13558@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
OK <OK@nospamsnet.net> wrote:
dear readers,
i am trying to sort some things out here. i just replied to an email
today from a friend who is an orthodox priest. he told me about my fate
in this letter. i was disturbed by this. i didn't think orthodox
priests were supposed to believe in fate. now my father who is an
agnostic jew is a fatalist, but that is ok for him. so i am wondering
what atheists think about fate. also earlier this year an orthodox
hierarch wrote about his luck in regards to me being nothing, and again
this struck me as odd because i did not think orthodox hierarchs were
supposed to believe in luck. i know an orthodox missionary who is
thoroughly opposed to the idea of luck, and everyone knows this about
that person. so again, i am wondering what the atheists think about
luck. i am on a fishing expedition for clarity of my own thoughts,
particularly in regards to fate. i think this priest is ill advising me
and i told him so, but i need evidence to back up my claim, especially
considering he was a university professor and he is twice my age.
regards,
ok
There is no evidence for an external force shaping our lives that some
might call fate. There is also no evidence for a supernatural force that
some would call luck. However, random events occasionally can and do
happen.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
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| User: "Gail Futoran" |
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| Title: Re: atheists and fate and luck |
29 Oct 2006 07:45:50 AM |
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"johac" <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com> wrote in message
news:jhachmann-3EF48A.00324229102006@news.giganews.com...
In article <ELP0h.17446$TV3.13558@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
OK <OK@nospamsnet.net> wrote:
dear readers,
i am trying to sort some things out here. i just replied to an email
today from a friend who is an orthodox priest. he told me about my fate
in this letter. i was disturbed by this. i didn't think orthodox
priests were supposed to believe in fate. now my father who is an
agnostic jew is a fatalist, but that is ok for him. so i am wondering
what atheists think about fate. also earlier this year an orthodox
hierarch wrote about his luck in regards to me being nothing, and again
this struck me as odd because i did not think orthodox hierarchs were
supposed to believe in luck. i know an orthodox missionary who is
thoroughly opposed to the idea of luck, and everyone knows this about
that person. so again, i am wondering what the atheists think about
luck. i am on a fishing expedition for clarity of my own thoughts,
particularly in regards to fate. i think this priest is ill advising me
and i told him so, but i need evidence to back up my claim, especially
considering he was a university professor and he is twice my age.
regards,
ok
There is no evidence for an external force shaping our lives that some
might call fate. There is also no evidence for a supernatural force that
some would call luck. However, random events occasionally can and do
happen.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
Some people say "I've been blessed." I don't mind that, especially when
it's coming from someone who has had all kinds of sh*t in their lives and
are looking on the positive side as much as possible, more power to them,
but it still grates. Blessed by ...?? I get ticked when someone finds a
dime in the parking lot and says with all sincerity "I've been blessed!"
Both phrases refer to special treatment by some sky fairie, but context is
important (for me, anyway).
Some people say "I've been lucky" and I can fully endorse that because, as
other posters have noted, "luck" is a function of random events. "Luck"
suggests that one escaped the flood or fire or act of malice not because one
is "special", or "protected" by some sky fairie, but because of random
accident - the same random accident that took the lives of innocent people
(hurricanes, tsunamis, human violence, etc.).
As an atheist, I'm more than willing to say I've been lucky regarding some
of my life outcomes. To say "I'm blessed" is as foreign a concept to me as
an atheist as saying I'm going to hell or heaven after I die.
Gail
aa#2247
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: atheists and fate and luck |
30 Oct 2006 12:32:36 AM |
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In article
<ig21h.144824$QZ1.120606@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"Gail Futoran" <futoran@nospam.worldnet.att.net> wrote:
"johac" <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com> wrote in message
news:jhachmann-3EF48A.00324229102006@news.giganews.com...
In article <ELP0h.17446$TV3.13558@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
OK <OK@nospamsnet.net> wrote:
dear readers,
i am trying to sort some things out here. i just replied to an email
today from a friend who is an orthodox priest. he told me about my fate
in this letter. i was disturbed by this. i didn't think orthodox
priests were supposed to believe in fate. now my father who is an
agnostic jew is a fatalist, but that is ok for him. so i am wondering
what atheists think about fate. also earlier this year an orthodox
hierarch wrote about his luck in regards to me being nothing, and again
this struck me as odd because i did not think orthodox hierarchs were
supposed to believe in luck. i know an orthodox missionary who is
thoroughly opposed to the idea of luck, and everyone knows this about
that person. so again, i am wondering what the atheists think about
luck. i am on a fishing expedition for clarity of my own thoughts,
particularly in regards to fate. i think this priest is ill advising me
and i told him so, but i need evidence to back up my claim, especially
considering he was a university professor and he is twice my age.
regards,
ok
There is no evidence for an external force shaping our lives that some
might call fate. There is also no evidence for a supernatural force that
some would call luck. However, random events occasionally can and do
happen.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
Some people say "I've been blessed." I don't mind that, especially when
it's coming from someone who has had all kinds of sh*t in their lives and
are looking on the positive side as much as possible, more power to them,
but it still grates. Blessed by ...?? I get ticked when someone finds a
dime in the parking lot and says with all sincerity "I've been blessed!"
Both phrases refer to special treatment by some sky fairie, but context is
important (for me, anyway).
'Blessed' makes absolutely no sense to me at all. If the person who
picked up the dime then steps out into the street and gets hit by a bus,
what happened to the 'blessing'?
Blessings, and curses for that matter, are superstition.
Some people say "I've been lucky" and I can fully endorse that because, as
other posters have noted, "luck" is a function of random events. "Luck"
suggests that one escaped the flood or fire or act of malice not because one
is "special", or "protected" by some sky fairie, but because of random
accident - the same random accident that took the lives of innocent people
(hurricanes, tsunamis, human violence, etc.).
As an atheist, I'm more than willing to say I've been lucky regarding some
of my life outcomes. To say "I'm blessed" is as foreign a concept to me as
an atheist as saying I'm going to hell or heaven after I die.
I think that people use 'luck' to describe a random event with a
favorable outcome. In the example above, the person who picked up the
dime could have said that he/she was 'lucky'. When that person got hit
by the bus one could say that the person was 'unlucky', or more likely
just careless.
In any event no evidence for sky pixies being involved.
Gail
aa#2247
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
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| User: "Frank Mayhar" |
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| Title: Re: atheists and fate and luck |
28 Oct 2006 07:23:40 PM |
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It's trivially easy: "Fate" and "luck" are both imaginary. They are the
human brain finding patterns where there are none.
Of course, given that the people to whom you referred apparently believe in
other imaginary things, it's hardly surprising that they would come up with
stuff like this. Magical thinking doesn't end with ones religion.
--
Frank Mayhar frank@exit.com http://www.exit.com/
Exit Consulting http://www.gpsclock.com/
http://www.exit.com/blog/frank/
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| User: "Jim07D6" |
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| Title: Re: atheists and fate and luck |
28 Oct 2006 06:46:25 PM |
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OK <OK@nospamsnet.net> said:
dear readers,
i am trying to sort some things out here. i just replied to an email
today from a friend who is an orthodox priest. he told me about my fate
in this letter. i was disturbed by this. i didn't think orthodox
priests were supposed to believe in fate. now my father who is an
agnostic jew is a fatalist, but that is ok for him. so i am wondering
what atheists think about fate. also earlier this year an orthodox
hierarch wrote about his luck in regards to me being nothing, and again
this struck me as odd because i did not think orthodox hierarchs were
supposed to believe in luck. i know an orthodox missionary who is
thoroughly opposed to the idea of luck, and everyone knows this about
that person. so again, i am wondering what the atheists think about
luck. i am on a fishing expedition for clarity of my own thoughts,
particularly in regards to fate. i think this priest is ill advising me
and i told him so, but i need evidence to back up my claim, especially
considering he was a university professor and he is twice my age.
regards,
ok
Being an atheist does not in itself lead to specific beliefs about
fate and luck.
I would expect a priest to tell you your fate will be such-and-such if
you do not do so-and-so, but i would expect him to say it is your free
choice and your responsibility to decide whether to do so-and-so. Does
he suggest otherwise?
Luck is IMO just another word for not being able to predict an
outcome. It is uninteresting to me as a topic.
But on fate:
If we are free enough of influences from outside to be genuinely free,
on what basis do we make our decisions? Is it something like our
"nature"? If so, are we free to change our nature? If so, on what
basis do we change that?
If we are not free enough of influences from outside to to be
genuinely free, how does knowing this affect our decisions? How can "I
am not free to decide this" enter into any decision making process,
such that it changes the decision? IOW, does this supposed fact have
an significance?
Finally, how do you feel in a given situation. Free? Highly
influences,? compelled? Unfree? If you are standing on the top of a
building, are you free not to jump? If you jump off a building, are
you free not to hit the ground?
Bottom line, trust your common sense on whether you are free, in a
given situation, and you will probably be OK.
-- Jim07D6
.
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| User: "OK" |
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| Title: Re: atheists and fate and luck |
28 Oct 2006 07:09:14 PM |
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Jim07D6 wrote:
OK <OK@nospamsnet.net> said:
dear readers,
i am trying to sort some things out here. i just replied to an email
today from a friend who is an orthodox priest. he told me about my fate
in this letter. i was disturbed by this. i didn't think orthodox
priests were supposed to believe in fate. now my father who is an
agnostic jew is a fatalist, but that is ok for him. so i am wondering
what atheists think about fate. also earlier this year an orthodox
hierarch wrote about his luck in regards to me being nothing, and again
this struck me as odd because i did not think orthodox hierarchs were
supposed to believe in luck. i know an orthodox missionary who is
thoroughly opposed to the idea of luck, and everyone knows this about
that person. so again, i am wondering what the atheists think about
luck. i am on a fishing expedition for clarity of my own thoughts,
particularly in regards to fate. i think this priest is ill advising me
and i told him so, but i need evidence to back up my claim, especially
considering he was a university professor and he is twice my age.
regards,
ok
Being an atheist does not in itself lead to specific beliefs about
fate and luck.
I would expect a priest to tell you your fate will be such-and-such if
you do not do so-and-so, but i would expect him to say it is your free
choice and your responsibility to decide whether to do so-and-so. Does
he suggest otherwise?
oh yeah, this is my friend not my pastor, and now he has brought in
fatalism. i am trying to combat this as i am an excommunicate and i am
trying to figure out what the hell is wrong with my belief system since
my bishop has dumped me flat on my *****.
Luck is IMO just another word for not being able to predict an
outcome. It is uninteresting to me as a topic.
But on fate:
If we are free enough of influences from outside to be genuinely free,
on what basis do we make our decisions? Is it something like our
"nature"? If so, are we free to change our nature? If so, on what
basis do we change that?
If we are not free enough of influences from outside to to be
genuinely free, how does knowing this affect our decisions? How can "I
am not free to decide this" enter into any decision making process,
such that it changes the decision? IOW, does this supposed fact have
an significance?
as a member of a religion, this gets into religion, which i will not
burden you with.
Finally, how do you feel in a given situation. Free? Highly
influences,? compelled? Unfree? If you are standing on the top of a
building, are you free not to jump? If you jump off a building, are
you free not to hit the ground?
Bottom line, trust your common sense on whether you are free, in a
given situation, and you will probably be OK.
-- Jim07D6
right, but that's not the problem. the problem is i was raised by a
fatalistic father and i am now an orthodox excommunicate and i wonder if
the one caused the other. thank you for the reply. my father is an
agnostic jew, again.
ok.
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| User: "Jim07D6" |
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| Title: Re: atheists and fate and luck |
29 Oct 2006 01:02:43 PM |
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OK <OK@nospamsnet.net> said:
Jim07D6 wrote:
Bottom line, trust your common sense on whether you are free, in a
given situation, and you will probably be OK.
-- Jim07D6
right, but that's not the problem. the problem is i was raised by a
fatalistic father and i am now an orthodox excommunicate and i wonder if
the one caused the other. thank you for the reply. my father is an
agnostic jew, again.
ok.
Alt.atheism is not likely to be of much help. If you are troubled by
this, I suggest you see a psychologist or psychiatrist. Find one that
deals with religious issues but make sure he/she does not try to make
you go back to, or stay away from, church.
-- Jim07D6
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: atheists and fate and luck |
31 Oct 2006 09:08:18 PM |
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On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 00:09:14 GMT, OK <OK@nospamsnet.net> wrote in
alt.atheism
Jim07D6 wrote:
OK <OK@nospamsnet.net> said:
[]
Being an atheist does not in itself lead to specific beliefs about
fate and luck.
I would expect a priest to tell you your fate will be such-and-such if
you do not do so-and-so, but i would expect him to say it is your free
choice and your responsibility to decide whether to do so-and-so. Does
he suggest otherwise?
oh yeah, this is my friend not my pastor, and now he has brought in
fatalism. i am trying to combat this as i am an excommunicate and i am
trying to figure out what the hell is wrong with my belief system since
my bishop has dumped me flat on my *****.
Belief System=irrationality. There is no 'God.' There is no 'heaven,'
'hell,' or 'eternal life.' The life you have is it. Your successes,
and failures/mistakes are yours. Effectively, you were rendered a
member no more of the 'Mickey Mouse Club.' Are you a mental child or a
mental adult? [rhetorical question alert]
Luck is IMO just another word for not being able to predict an
outcome. It is uninteresting to me as a topic.
But on fate:
If we are free enough of influences from outside to be genuinely free,
on what basis do we make our decisions? Is it something like our
"nature"? If so, are we free to change our nature? If so, on what
basis do we change that?
If we are not free enough of influences from outside to to be
genuinely free, how does knowing this affect our decisions? How can "I
am not free to decide this" enter into any decision making process,
such that it changes the decision? IOW, does this supposed fact have
an significance?
as a member of a religion, this gets into religion, which i will not
burden you with.
You were cast out of the superstition organization. At this point in
time, you are not a member of a superstition organization. That said,
there's nothing stopping you from 'going direct' to 'God.'
Finally, how do you feel in a given situation. Free? Highly
influences,? compelled? Unfree? If you are standing on the top of a
building, are you free not to jump? If you jump off a building, are
you free not to hit the ground?
Bottom line, trust your common sense on whether you are free, in a
given situation, and you will probably be OK.
-- Jim07D6
right, but that's not the problem. the problem is i was raised by a
fatalistic father and i am now an orthodox excommunicate and i wonder if
the one caused the other.
No, it did not. Are you a marionette? I would indicate you are not.
thank you for the reply. my father is an
agnostic jew, again.
ok.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "Enkidu" |
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| Title: Re: atheists and fate and luck |
28 Oct 2006 04:48:46 PM |
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OK <OK@nospamsnet.net> wrote in news:ELP0h.17446$TV3.13558
@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com:
dear readers,
i am trying to sort some things out here. i just replied to an email
today from a friend who is an orthodox priest. he told me about my fate
in this letter. i was disturbed by this. i didn't think orthodox
priests were supposed to believe in fate. now my father who is an
agnostic jew is a fatalist, but that is ok for him. so i am wondering
what atheists think about fate. also earlier this year an orthodox
hierarch wrote about his luck in regards to me being nothing, and again
this struck me as odd because i did not think orthodox hierarchs were
supposed to believe in luck. i know an orthodox missionary who is
thoroughly opposed to the idea of luck, and everyone knows this about
that person. so again, i am wondering what the atheists think about
luck. i am on a fishing expedition for clarity of my own thoughts,
particularly in regards to fate. i think this priest is ill advising me
and i told him so, but i need evidence to back up my claim, especially
considering he was a university professor and he is twice my age.
regards,
ok
LeArN tO uSe PrOpEr CaPiTaLiZaTiOn If YoU wAnT pEoPlE tO tHiNk YoU tOoK
tHe TiMe To WrItE sOmEtHiNg WoRtH rEaDiNg.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
http://www.thoughts.leaddogs.org/
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
God is a word to express, not our ideas, but the want of them.
-- John Stuart Mill
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| User: "Stephen Knight" |
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| Title: Re: atheists and fate and luck |
28 Oct 2006 09:25:39 PM |
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On 28 Oct 2006 21:48:46 GMT, Enkidu <ox_qljjor@trashmail.net> wrote:
LeArN tO uSe PrOpEr CaPiTaLiZaTiOn If YoU wAnT pEoPlE tO tHiNk YoU tOoK
tHe TiMe To WrItE sOmEtHiNg WoRtH rEaDiNg.
Heh,,
Warlord Steve
BAAWA
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| User: "OK" |
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| Title: Re: atheists and fate and luck |
08 Nov 2006 11:57:37 AM |
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Stephen Knight wrote:
On 28 Oct 2006 21:48:46 GMT, Enkidu <ox_qljjor@trashmail.net> wrote:
LeArN tO uSe PrOpEr CaPiTaLiZaTiOn If YoU wAnT pEoPlE tO tHiNk YoU tOoK
tHe TiMe To WrItE sOmEtHiNg WoRtH rEaDiNg.
Heh,,
Warlord Steve
BAAWA
I know how to use it. I choose not to.
OK
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| User: "Lucifer" |
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| Title: Re: atheists and fate and luck |
08 Nov 2006 04:28:25 PM |
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OK wrote:
Stephen Knight wrote:
On 28 Oct 2006 21:48:46 GMT, Enkidu <ox_qljjor@trashmail.net> wrote:
LeArN tO uSe PrOpEr CaPiTaLiZaTiOn If YoU wAnT pEoPlE tO tHiNk YoU tOoK
tHe TiMe To WrItE sOmEtHiNg WoRtH rEaDiNg.
Heh,,
Warlord Steve
BAAWA
I know how to use it. I choose not to.
OK
Learn from Son of Discord. There is a big difference between I helped
my uncle Jack off a horse and I helped my uncle jack off a horse.
--
Lucifer the Unsubtle, EAC Librarian of Dark Tomes of Excessive Evil and
General Purpose Igor
The Anti-Theist
"Don't worry, I won't bite.......hard"
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: atheists and fate and luck |
08 Nov 2006 08:37:26 PM |
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On 8 Nov 2006 14:28:25 -0800, "Lucifer" <wyrdology@hotmail.com> wrote:
OK wrote:
Stephen Knight wrote:
On 28 Oct 2006 21:48:46 GMT, Enkidu <ox_qljjor@trashmail.net> wrote:
LeArN tO uSe PrOpEr CaPiTaLiZaTiOn If YoU wAnT pEoPlE tO tHiNk YoU tOoK
tHe TiMe To WrItE sOmEtHiNg WoRtH rEaDiNg.
Heh,,
Warlord Steve
BAAWA
I know how to use it. I choose not to.
OK
Learn from Son of Discord. There is a big difference between I helped
my uncle Jack off a horse and I helped my uncle jack off a horse.
Punctuation can save lives:
Pardon impossible, to be sent to Siberia.
Pardon, impossible to be sent to Siberia.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
Nothing so completely baffles one who is full of trick and duplicity
himself, than straightforward and simple integrity in another.
- Charles Caleb Colton, author and clergyman (1780-1832)
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
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| User: "Chris H. Fleming" |
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| Title: Re: atheists and fate and luck |
28 Oct 2006 07:01:43 PM |
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OK wrote:
dear readers,
i am trying to sort some things out here. i just replied to an email
today from a friend who is an orthodox priest. he told me about my fate
in this letter. i was disturbed by this. i didn't think orthodox
priests were supposed to believe in fate. now my father who is an
agnostic jew is a fatalist, but that is ok for him. so i am wondering
what atheists think about fate. also earlier this year an orthodox
hierarch wrote about his luck in regards to me being nothing, and again
this struck me as odd because i did not think orthodox hierarchs were
supposed to believe in luck. i know an orthodox missionary who is
thoroughly opposed to the idea of luck, and everyone knows this about
that person. so again, i am wondering what the atheists think about
luck. i am on a fishing expedition for clarity of my own thoughts,
particularly in regards to fate. i think this priest is ill advising me
and i told him so, but i need evidence to back up my claim, especially
considering he was a university professor and he is twice my age.
regards,
ok
There is no such thing as luck. Luck would be scientifically provable.
There is no discernible determinism at the human level, but human
behaviors can be fairly predictable. Especially the sheeple.
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| User: "AlanS" |
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| Title: Re: atheists and fate and luck |
29 Oct 2006 04:39:33 AM |
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"Chris H. Fleming" <chris_h_fleming@yahoo.com> wrote:
There is no such thing as luck. Luck would be scientifically provable.
Of course there is. There are also UFOs. It depends if you use such
terms at face value or if you pre-load them. If you say UFOs don't
exist, you are thinking of flying saucers, not UFOs. If you say luck
doesn't exist, you are thinking about causal connections between
random events, not luck.
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| User: "Chris H. Fleming" |
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| Title: Re: atheists and fate and luck |
30 Oct 2006 01:01:06 AM |
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AlanS wrote:
"Chris H. Fleming" <chris_h_fleming@yahoo.com> wrote:
There is no such thing as luck. Luck would be scientifically provable.
Of course there is. There are also UFOs. It depends if you use such
terms at face value or if you pre-load them. If you say UFOs don't
exist, you are thinking of flying saucers, not UFOs. If you say luck
doesn't exist, you are thinking about causal connections between
random events, not luck.
Define luck then Mr. Semantics.
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| User: "OK" |
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| Title: Re: atheists and fate and luck |
08 Nov 2006 04:05:48 PM |
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Chris H. Fleming wrote:
OK wrote:
dear readers,
i am trying to sort some things out here. i just replied to an email
today from a friend who is an orthodox priest. he told me about my fate
in this letter. i was disturbed by this. i didn't think orthodox
priests were supposed to believe in fate. now my father who is an
agnostic jew is a fatalist, but that is ok for him. so i am wondering
what atheists think about fate. also earlier this year an orthodox
hierarch wrote about his luck in regards to me being nothing, and again
this struck me as odd because i did not think orthodox hierarchs were
supposed to believe in luck. i know an orthodox missionary who is
thoroughly opposed to the idea of luck, and everyone knows this about
that person. so again, i am wondering what the atheists think about
luck. i am on a fishing expedition for clarity of my own thoughts,
particularly in regards to fate. i think this priest is ill advising me
and i told him so, but i need evidence to back up my claim, especially
considering he was a university professor and he is twice my age.
regards,
ok
There is no such thing as luck. Luck would be scientifically provable.
There is no discernible determinism at the human level, but human
behaviors can be fairly predictable. Especially the sheeple.
I am no sheeple, just in case that was your implication.
Atlanta
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: atheists and fate and luck |
31 Oct 2006 10:22:20 AM |
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On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 21:15:16 GMT, OK <OK@nospamsnet.net> wrote in
alt.atheism
dear readers,
i am trying to sort some things out here. i just replied to an email
today from a friend who is an orthodox priest. he told me about my fate
in this letter. i was disturbed by this. i didn't think orthodox
priests were supposed to believe in fate.
Here 'fate' is the 'divine plan.'
now my father who is an
agnostic jew is a fatalist, but that is ok for him. so i am wondering
what atheists think about fate. also earlier this year an orthodox
hierarch wrote about his luck in regards to me being nothing, and again
this struck me as odd because i did not think orthodox hierarchs were
supposed to believe in luck. i know an orthodox missionary who is
thoroughly opposed to the idea of luck, and everyone knows this about
that person. so again, i am wondering what the atheists think about
luck.
Here 'luck' is the 'divine plan' from a outside surprising basis.
i am on a fishing expedition for clarity of my own thoughts,
particularly in regards to fate. i think this priest is ill advising me
and i told him so, but i need evidence to back up my claim, especially
considering he was a university professor and he is twice my age.
University professor's can talk shiite and age doesn't necessarily bring
wisdom.
The two words, fate and luck, are mere sloppy shorthand descriptors of a
situation/thing from the speakers viewpoint. Fate and Luck are like
God-meaningless filler presented at if it's of great worth. IOW
'awesome *****.'
regards,
ok
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: atheists and fate and luck |
28 Oct 2006 04:35:45 PM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet OK (OK@nospamsnet.net) made
the light shine upon us with this:
dear readers,
i am trying to sort some things out here. i just replied to an email
today from a friend who is an orthodox priest. he told me about my fate
in this letter. i was disturbed by this. i didn't think orthodox
priests were supposed to believe in fate. now my father who is an
agnostic jew is a fatalist, but that is ok for him. so i am wondering
what atheists think about fate. also earlier this year an orthodox
hierarch wrote about his luck in regards to me being nothing, and again
this struck me as odd because i did not think orthodox hierarchs were
supposed to believe in luck. i know an orthodox missionary who is
thoroughly opposed to the idea of luck, and everyone knows this about
that person. so again, i am wondering what the atheists think about
luck. i am on a fishing expedition for clarity of my own thoughts,
particularly in regards to fate. i think this priest is ill advising me
and i told him so, but i need evidence to back up my claim, especially
considering he was a university professor and he is twice my age.
regards,
ok
There is no such thing as fate, or destiny, if man has free will. And I
can only describe luck as a desirable return of coindicental outcomes.
There is no empirical evidence that demonstrates the existence of any
guiding forces in life. Any occurrances that are read by the
superstitious as fate or luck are nothing but random coincidence.
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Plonked by Kadaitcha Man
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| User: "Working Class Dog" |
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| Title: Re: atheists and fate and luck |
29 Oct 2006 10:22:40 AM |
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On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 21:35:45 GMT, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com> wrote:
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet OK (OK@nospamsnet.net) made
the light shine upon us with this:
dear readers,
i am trying to sort some things out here. i just replied to an email
today from a friend who is an orthodox priest. he told me about my fate
in this letter. i was disturbed by this. i didn't think orthodox
priests were supposed to believe in fate. now my father who is an
agnostic jew is a fatalist, but that is ok for him. so i am wondering
what atheists think about fate. also earlier this year an orthodox
hierarch wrote about his luck in regards to me being nothing, and again
this struck me as odd because i did not think orthodox hierarchs were
supposed to believe in luck. i know an orthodox missionary who is
thoroughly opposed to the idea of luck, and everyone knows this about
that person. so again, i am wondering what the atheists think about
luck. i am on a fishing expedition for clarity of my own thoughts,
particularly in regards to fate. i think this priest is ill advising me
and i told him so, but i need evidence to back up my claim, especially
considering he was a university professor and he is twice my age.
regards,
ok
There is no such thing as fate, or destiny, if man has free will. And I
can only describe luck as a desirable return of coindicental outcomes.
There is no empirical evidence that demonstrates the existence of any
guiding forces in life. Any occurrances that are read by the
superstitious as fate or luck are nothing but random coincidence.
A priest asked: What is Fate, Master?
And he answered:
It is that which gives a beast of burden its reason for existence.
It is that which men in former times had to bear upon their backs.
It is that which has caused nations to build byways from City to City
upon which carts and coaches pass, and alongside which inns have come
to be built to stave off Hunger, Thirst and Weariness.
And that is Fate? said the priest.
Fate ... I thought you said Freight, responded the Master.
That's all right, said the priest. I wanted to know what Freight was
too.
-- Kehlog Albran, "The Profit"
--
I got kicked out of Indigo for moving all
the bibles to the "Fiction" section
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| User: "OK" |
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| Title: Re: atheists and fate and luck |
28 Oct 2006 07:11:15 PM |
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Uncle Vic wrote:
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet OK (OK@nospamsnet.net) made
the light shine upon us with this:
dear readers,
i am trying to sort some things out here. i just replied to an email
today from a friend who is an orthodox priest. he told me about my fate
in this letter. i was disturbed by this. i didn't think orthodox
priests were supposed to believe in fate. now my father who is an
agnostic jew is a fatalist, but that is ok for him. so i am wondering
what atheists think about fate. also earlier this year an orthodox
hierarch wrote about his luck in regards to me being nothing, and again
this struck me as odd because i did not think orthodox hierarchs were
supposed to believe in luck. i know an orthodox missionary who is
thoroughly opposed to the idea of luck, and everyone knows this about
that person. so again, i am wondering what the atheists think about
luck. i am on a fishing expedition for clarity of my own thoughts,
particularly in regards to fate. i think this priest is ill advising me
and i told him so, but i need evidence to back up my claim, especially
considering he was a university professor and he is twice my age.
regards,
ok
There is no such thing as fate, or destiny, if man has free will. And I
can only describe luck as a desirable return of coindicental outcomes.
There is no empirical evidence that demonstrates the existence of any
guiding forces in life. Any occurrances that are read by the
superstitious as fate or luck are nothing but random coincidence.
bingo! this bishop and that priest are *superstitious* ha ha! let's
excommunicate them. <eg>
thank you. that's what they get for being in such proximity to the
Russians, who are *extremely* superstitious. Well, i most definitely *am
not*.
so. onwards. what is the relationship between atheism and superstition? :-)
now we are getting somewhere! yahoo!
.
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| User: "John Popelish" |
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| Title: Re: atheists and fate and luck |
28 Oct 2006 07:37:20 PM |
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OK wrote:
(snip)
what is the relationship between atheism and
superstition? :-)
now we are getting somewhere! yahoo!
Atheists can probably be found with any sort of superstition
you could imagine, except that those superstitions do not
involve deities.
My working definition of superstition is a belief in the
existence of supernatural places, forces or beings.
I tried that definition out on the local Mormon
missionaries, but they wanted special exceptions for their
particular set of supernatural places, forces and beings.
They were willing to accept this definition for other
supernatural places, forces and beings, however.
All that said, I think superstition in any form is a lot
rarer among atheists than for the population in general.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: atheists and fate and luck |
31 Oct 2006 10:23:57 PM |
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On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 00:11:15 GMT, OK <OK@nospamsnet.net> wrote in
alt.atheism
Uncle Vic wrote:
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet OK (OK@nospamsnet.net) made
the light shine upon us with this:
dear readers,
i am trying to sort some things out here. i just replied to an email
today from a friend who is an orthodox priest. he told me about my fate
in this letter. i was disturbed by this. i didn't think orthodox
priests were supposed to believe in fate. now my father who is an
agnostic jew is a fatalist, but that is ok for him. so i am wondering
what atheists think about fate. also earlier this year an orthodox
hierarch wrote about his luck in regards to me being nothing, and again
this struck me as odd because i did not think orthodox hierarchs were
supposed to believe in luck. i know an orthodox missionary who is
thoroughly opposed to the idea of luck, and everyone knows this about
that person. so again, i am wondering what the atheists think about
luck. i am on a fishing expedition for clarity of my own thoughts,
particularly in regards to fate. i think this priest is ill advising me
and i told him so, but i need evidence to back up my claim, especially
considering he was a university professor and he is twice my age.
regards,
ok
There is no such thing as fate, or destiny, if man has free will. And I
can only describe luck as a desirable return of coindicental outcomes.
There is no empirical evidence that demonstrates the existence of any
guiding forces in life. Any occurrances that are read by the
superstitious as fate or luck are nothing but random coincidence.
bingo! this bishop and that priest are *superstitious* ha ha! let's
excommunicate them. <eg>
thank you. that's what they get for being in such proximity to the
Russians, who are *extremely* superstitious. Well, i most definitely *am
not*.
Theism=superstition.
so. onwards. what is the relationship between atheism and superstition? :-)
Not superstitious when it comes to deity[ies]. Anything else is fair
game. [shrug]
now we are getting somewhere! yahoo!
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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