| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"words of truth" |
| Date: |
02 Nov 2005 02:42:52 PM |
| Object: |
Atheists And Their Absent Fathers |
Atheists and Their Fathers
www.probe.org
Kerby Anderson
How does one become an atheist? Does a person's relationship with his
earthly father affect his relationship with his heavenly Father? These
are some of the questions we will explore in this article as we talk
about the book Faith of the Fatherless by Paul Vitz. Vitz is a
psychologist who was an atheist himself until his late thirties. He
began to wonder if psychology played a role in one's belief about God.
After all, secular psychologists have been saying that a belief in God
is really nothing more than infantile wish fulfillment. Dr. Vitz
wondered if the shoe was on the other foot. Could it be that atheists
are engaged in unconscious wish fulfillment?
After studying the lives of more than a dozen of the world's most
influential atheists, Dr. Vitz discovered that they all had one thing
in common: defective relationships with their fathers. The relationship
was defective because the father was either dead, abusive, weak, or had
abandoned the children. When he studied the lives of influential
theists during those same historical time periods, he found they
enjoyed a strong, loving relationship with a father (or a father
substitute if the father was dead).
For example, Friedrich Nietzche lost his father (who was a pastor)
before his fifth birthday. One biographer wrote that Nietzche was
"passionately attached to his father, and the shock of losing him was
profound." Dr. Vitz writes that Nietzche had a "strong, intellectually
macho reaction against a dead, very Christian father." Friedrich
Nietzche is best known as the philosopher who said, "God is dead." It
certainly seems possible that his rejection of God and Christianity was
a "rejection of the weakness of his father."
Contrast Nietzche with the life of Blaise Pascal. This famous
mathematician and religious writer lived at a time in Paris when there
was considerable skepticism about religion. He nevertheless wrote Les
pens=E9es (Thoughts), a powerful and imaginative defense of
Christianity, which also attacked skepticism. Pascal's father, Etienne,
was a wealthy judge and also an able mathematician. He was known as a
good man with religious convictions. Pascal's mother died when he was
three, so his father gave up his law practice and home-schooled Blaise
and his sisters.
Here we are going to look at the correlation between our relationship
with our earthly father and our heavenly Father. No matter what our
family background, we are still responsible for the choices we make.
Growing up in an unloving home does not excuse us from rejecting God,
but it does explain why some people reject God. There may be a
psychological component to their commitment to atheism.
Nietzche and Freud
Friedrich Nietzche is a philosopher who has influenced everyone from
Adolph Hitler to the Columbine killers. His father was a Lutheran
pastor who died of a brain disease before Nietzche's fifth birthday. He
often spoke positively of his father and said his death was a great
loss, which he never forgot. One biographer wrote that Nietzche was
"passionately attached to his father, and the shock of losing him was
profound." It seems he associated the general weakness and sickness of
his father with his father's Christianity. Nietzche's major criticism
of Christianity was that it suffers from an absence, even a rejection,
of "life force." The God Nietzche chose was Dionysius, a strong pagan
expression of life force. It certainly seems possible that his
rejection of God and Christianity was a "rejection of the weakness of
his father."
Nietzche's own philosophy placed an emphasis on the "superman" along
with a denigration of women. Yet his own search for masculinity was
undermined by the domination of his childhood by his mother and female
relatives in a Christian household. Dr. Vitz says, "It is not
surprising, then, that for Nietzche Christian morality was something
for women." He concludes that Nietzche had a "strong, intellectually
macho reaction against a dead, very Christian father who was loved and
admired but perceived as sickly and weak."
Sigmund Freud despised his Jewish father, who was a weak man unable to
support his family. Freud later wrote in two letters that his father
was a sexual pervert, and that the children suffered as a result. Dr.
Vitz believes that Freud's Oedipus Complex (which placed hatred of the
father at the center of his psychology) was an expression of "his
strong unconscious hostility to and rejection of his own father." His
father was involved in a form of reformed Judaism but was also a weak,
passive man with sexual perversions. Freud's rejection of God and
Judaism seems connected to his rejection of his father.
Both Nietzche and Freud demonstrate the relationship between our
attitudes toward our earthly father and our heavenly Father. In both
cases, there seems to be a psychological component to their commitment
to atheism.
Russell and Hume
Bertrand Russell was one of the most famous atheists of the last
century. Both of Russell's parents lived on the margin of radical
politics. His father died when Bertrand Russell was four years old, and
his mother died two years earlier. He was subsequently cared for by his
rigidly puritanical grandmother, who was known as "Deadly Nightshade."
She was by birth a Scottish Presbyterian, and by temperament a puritan.
Russell's daughter Katherine noted that his grandmother's joyless faith
was "the only form of Christianity my father knew well." This ascetic
faith taught that "the life of this world was no more than a gloomy
testing ground for future bliss." She concluded, "My father threw this
morbid belief out the window."
Dr. Vitz points out that Russell's only other parent figures were a
string of nannies to whom he often grew quite attached. When one of the
nannies left, the eleven-year-old Bertrand was "inconsolable." He soon
discovered that the way out of his sadness was to retreat into the
world of books.
After his early years of lost loves and later years of solitary living
at home with tutors, Russell described himself in this way: "My most
profound feelings have remained always solitary and have found in human
things no companionship . . . . The sea, the stars, the night wind in
waste places, mean more to me than even the human beings I love best,
and I am conscious that human affection is to me at bottom an attempt
to escape from the vain search for God."
Another famous atheist was David Hume. He was born into a prominent and
affluent family. He seems to have been on good terms with his mother as
well as his brother and sister. He was raised as a Scottish
Presbyterian but gave up his faith and devoted most of his writing to
the topic of religion.
Like the other atheists we have discussed, David Hume fits the pattern.
His father died when he was two years old. Biographies of his life
mention no relatives or family friends who could serve as
father-figures. And David Hume is known as a man who had no religious
beliefs and spent his life raising skeptical arguments against religion
in any form.
Both Russell and Hume demonstrate the relationship between our
attitudes toward our earthly father and our heavenly Father. In each
case, there is a psychological component to their commitment to
atheism.
Sartre, Voltaire, and Feuerbach
Jean-Paul Sartre was one of the most famous atheists of the last
century. His father died when he was fifteen months old. He and his
mother lived with his maternal grandparents as his mother cultivated a
very intimate relationship with him. She concentrated her emotional
energy on her son until she remarried when Sartre was twelve. This
idyllic and Oedipal involvement came to an end, and Sartre strongly
rejected his stepfather. In those formative years, Sartre's real father
died, his grandfather was cool and distant, and his stepfather took his
beloved mother away from him. The adolescent Sartre concluded to
himself, "You know what? God doesn't exist." Commentators note that
Sartre obsessed with fatherhood all his life and never got over his
fatherlessness. Dr. Vitz concludes that "his father's absence was such
a painful reality that Jean-Paul spent a lifetime trying to deny the
loss and build a philosophy in which the absence of a father and of God
is the very starting place for the good or authentic life."
Another philosopher during the French Enlightenment disliked his father
so much that he changed his name from Arouet to Voltaire. The two
fought constantly. At one point Voltaire's father was so angry with his
son for his interest in the world of letters rather than taking up a
career in law that he "authorized having his son sent to prison or into
exile in the West Indies." Voltaire was not a true atheist, but rather
a deist who believed in an impersonal God. He was a strident critic of
religion, especially Christianity with its understanding of a personal
God.
Ludwig Feuerbach was a prominent German atheist who was born into a
distinguished and gifted German family. His father was a prominent
jurist who was difficult and undiplomatic with colleagues and family.
The dramatic event in young Ludwig's life must have been his father's
affair with the wife of one his father's friends. They lived together
openly in another town, and she bore him a son. The affair began when
Feuerbach was nine and lasted for nine years. His father publicly
rejected his family, and years later Feuerbach rejected Christianity.
One famous critic of religion said that Feuerbach was so hostile to
Christianity that he would have been called the Antichrist if the world
had ended then.
Each of these men once again illustrates the relationship between
atheism and their fathers.
Burke and Wilberforce
British statesman Edmund Burke is considered by many as the founder of
modern conservative political thought. He was partly raised by his
grandfather and three affectionate uncles. He later wrote of his Uncle
Garret, that he was "one of the very best men, I believe that ever
lived, of the clearest integrity, the most genuine principles of
religion and virtue." His writings are in direct opposition to the
radical principles of the French Revolution. One of his major
criticisms of the French Revolution was its hostility to religion: "We
are not converts of Rousseau; we are not the disciples of Voltaire;
Helevetius has made no progress amongst us. Atheists are not our
preachers." For Burke, God and religion were important pillars of a
just and civil society.
William Wilberforce was an English statesman and abolitionist. His
father died when he was nine years old, and he was sent to live with
his aunt and uncle. He was extremely close to his uncle and to John
Newton who was a frequent visitor to their home. Newton was a former
slave trader who converted to Christ and wrote the famous hymn "Amazing
Grace." Wilberforce first heard of the evils of slavery from Newton's
stories and sermons, "even reverencing him as a parent when [he] was a
child." Wilberforce was an evangelical Christian who went on to serve
in parliament and was instrumental in abolishing the British slave
trade.
As mentioned earlier, Blaise Pascal was a famous mathematician and
religious writer. Pascal's father was a wealthy judge and also an able
mathematician, known as a good man with religious convictions. Pascal's
mother died when he was three, so his father gave up his law practice
and home-schooled Blaise and his sisters. Pascal went on to powerfully
present a Christian perspective at a time when there was considerable
skepticism about religion in France.
I believe Paul Vitz provides an important look at atheists and theists
in his book Faith of the Fatherless. The prominent atheists of the last
few centuries all had defective relationships with their fathers while
the theists enjoyed a strong, loving relationship with a father or a
father substitute. This might be something to compassionately consider
the next time you witness to an atheist.
http://www.probe.org/docs/atheists.html
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1385620/posts
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheists And Their Absent Fathers |
02 Nov 2005 04:57:15 PM |
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"words of truth" <wordsoftruth@hoshmail.com> wrote in message
news:1130942572.063188.73190@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Atheists and Their Fathers
You nym-shifting little ***** - re-PLONK
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
.
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| User: "Torch" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheists And Their Absent Fathers |
02 Nov 2005 03:53:37 PM |
|
|
"words of truth" <wordsoftruth@hoshmail.com> wrote in message
news:1130942572.063188.73190@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Atheists and Their Fathers
www.probe.org
Kerby Anderson
How does one become an atheist?
There is probably a very weak correlation between being an atheist and
having a distant relationship with a father figure for one very good reason.
Religion is perpetuated by the abusive indoctrination of children usually
by the father figure in their lives.
I am an atheist and I have a very good relationship with my father - but
then he is an atheist also His atheism was not something that he even
revealed to me when I was a child - I was just never exposed to any
indoctrination.
.
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| User: "øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheists And Their Absent Fathers |
02 Nov 2005 09:38:55 PM |
|
|
Actually it is the mother who has the greatest influence on what role
religion will play in the home and in the family and on the children.
"Torch" <Torch@torch.com> wrote in message
news:dkandq$3ka$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...|
|
| How does one become an atheist?
| There is probably a very weak correlation between being an atheist and
| having a distant relationship with a father figure for one very good
reason.
| Religion is perpetuated by the abusive indoctrination of children
usually
| by the father figure in their lives.
| I am an atheist and I have a very good relationship with my father -
but
| then he is an atheist also His atheism was not something that he even
| revealed to me when I was a child - I was just never exposed to any
| indoctrination.
|
|
.
|
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| User: "Piranha tank missionaries" |
|
| Title: Re: Re: Atheists And Their Absent Fathers |
02 Nov 2005 11:25:56 PM |
|
|
It started with a Re: Atheists And Their Absent Fathers.
Who (other than "øéòéï áøúåïý/Riain Barton" <riain@zion.org.il>) would
have guessed it would end like:
Actually it is the mother who has the greatest influence on what role
religion will play in the home and in the family and on the children.
You don't have to be Jewish....
------------------------------------------------
Conflict over the exact will/purpose/nature of God cannot ever be
resolved, since there are no facts to go on.
D Silverman FLAHN, SMLAHN
AA #2208
.
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| User: "Bill" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists And Their Absent Fathers |
02 Nov 2005 07:40:28 PM |
|
|
"words of truth" <wordsoftruth@hoshmail.com> wrote in message
news:1130942572.063188.73190@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Atheists and Their Fathers
www.probe.org
Kerby Anderson
How does one become an atheist? Does a person's relationship with his
earthly father affect his relationship with his heavenly Father? These
are some of the questions we will explore in this article as we talk
about the book Faith of the Fatherless by Paul Vitz. Vitz is a
psychologist who was an atheist himself until his late thirties. He
began to wonder if psychology played a role in one's belief about God.
After all, secular psychologists have been saying that a belief in God
is really nothing more than infantile wish fulfillment. Dr. Vitz
wondered if the shoe was on the other foot. Could it be that atheists
are engaged in unconscious wish fulfillment?
After studying the lives of more than a dozen of the world's most
influential atheists, Dr. Vitz discovered that they all had one thing
in common: defective relationships with their fathers. The relationship
was defective because the father was either dead, abusive, weak, or had
abandoned the children. When he studied the lives of influential
theists during those same historical time periods, he found they
enjoyed a strong, loving relationship with a father (or a father
substitute if the father was dead).
Pure ***** in a rather weak attempt to sell ones phony religion.
I was raised by a devoted father as a devout Catholic. He was a very loving
and supportive father.
I attended a Catholic Grade school, High school and University.
In my younger years I was an alter boy and had thoughts of studying to
become a priest.
As I grew up I began studying other religions and took mostly scientific
courses in College.
I then realised that all religions were essentially just faith based on
fables and legends.
Scientific evidence proved the lack of relifious validity.
This converted my beliefs to atheism.
For example, Friedrich Nietzche lost his father (who was a pastor)
before his fifth birthday. One biographer wrote that Nietzche was
"passionately attached to his father, and the shock of losing him was
profound." Dr. Vitz writes that Nietzche had a "strong, intellectually
macho reaction against a dead, very Christian father." Friedrich
Nietzche is best known as the philosopher who said, "God is dead." It
certainly seems possible that his rejection of God and Christianity was
a "rejection of the weakness of his father."
Contrast Nietzche with the life of Blaise Pascal. This famous
mathematician and religious writer lived at a time in Paris when there
was considerable skepticism about religion. He nevertheless wrote Les
pensées (Thoughts), a powerful and imaginative defense of
Christianity, which also attacked skepticism. Pascal's father, Etienne,
was a wealthy judge and also an able mathematician. He was known as a
good man with religious convictions. Pascal's mother died when he was
three, so his father gave up his law practice and home-schooled Blaise
and his sisters.
Here we are going to look at the correlation between our relationship
with our earthly father and our heavenly Father. No matter what our
family background, we are still responsible for the choices we make.
Growing up in an unloving home does not excuse us from rejecting God,
but it does explain why some people reject God. There may be a
psychological component to their commitment to atheism.
Nietzche and Freud
Friedrich Nietzche is a philosopher who has influenced everyone from
Adolph Hitler to the Columbine killers. His father was a Lutheran
pastor who died of a brain disease before Nietzche's fifth birthday. He
often spoke positively of his father and said his death was a great
loss, which he never forgot. One biographer wrote that Nietzche was
"passionately attached to his father, and the shock of losing him was
profound." It seems he associated the general weakness and sickness of
his father with his father's Christianity. Nietzche's major criticism
of Christianity was that it suffers from an absence, even a rejection,
of "life force." The God Nietzche chose was Dionysius, a strong pagan
expression of life force. It certainly seems possible that his
rejection of God and Christianity was a "rejection of the weakness of
his father."
Nietzche's own philosophy placed an emphasis on the "superman" along
with a denigration of women. Yet his own search for masculinity was
undermined by the domination of his childhood by his mother and female
relatives in a Christian household. Dr. Vitz says, "It is not
surprising, then, that for Nietzche Christian morality was something
for women." He concludes that Nietzche had a "strong, intellectually
macho reaction against a dead, very Christian father who was loved and
admired but perceived as sickly and weak."
Sigmund Freud despised his Jewish father, who was a weak man unable to
support his family. Freud later wrote in two letters that his father
was a sexual pervert, and that the children suffered as a result. Dr.
Vitz believes that Freud's Oedipus Complex (which placed hatred of the
father at the center of his psychology) was an expression of "his
strong unconscious hostility to and rejection of his own father." His
father was involved in a form of reformed Judaism but was also a weak,
passive man with sexual perversions. Freud's rejection of God and
Judaism seems connected to his rejection of his father.
Both Nietzche and Freud demonstrate the relationship between our
attitudes toward our earthly father and our heavenly Father. In both
cases, there seems to be a psychological component to their commitment
to atheism.
Russell and Hume
Bertrand Russell was one of the most famous atheists of the last
century. Both of Russell's parents lived on the margin of radical
politics. His father died when Bertrand Russell was four years old, and
his mother died two years earlier. He was subsequently cared for by his
rigidly puritanical grandmother, who was known as "Deadly Nightshade."
She was by birth a Scottish Presbyterian, and by temperament a puritan.
Russell's daughter Katherine noted that his grandmother's joyless faith
was "the only form of Christianity my father knew well." This ascetic
faith taught that "the life of this world was no more than a gloomy
testing ground for future bliss." She concluded, "My father threw this
morbid belief out the window."
Dr. Vitz points out that Russell's only other parent figures were a
string of nannies to whom he often grew quite attached. When one of the
nannies left, the eleven-year-old Bertrand was "inconsolable." He soon
discovered that the way out of his sadness was to retreat into the
world of books.
After his early years of lost loves and later years of solitary living
at home with tutors, Russell described himself in this way: "My most
profound feelings have remained always solitary and have found in human
things no companionship . . . . The sea, the stars, the night wind in
waste places, mean more to me than even the human beings I love best,
and I am conscious that human affection is to me at bottom an attempt
to escape from the vain search for God."
Another famous atheist was David Hume. He was born into a prominent and
affluent family. He seems to have been on good terms with his mother as
well as his brother and sister. He was raised as a Scottish
Presbyterian but gave up his faith and devoted most of his writing to
the topic of religion.
Like the other atheists we have discussed, David Hume fits the pattern.
His father died when he was two years old. Biographies of his life
mention no relatives or family friends who could serve as
father-figures. And David Hume is known as a man who had no religious
beliefs and spent his life raising skeptical arguments against religion
in any form.
Both Russell and Hume demonstrate the relationship between our
attitudes toward our earthly father and our heavenly Father. In each
case, there is a psychological component to their commitment to
atheism.
Sartre, Voltaire, and Feuerbach
Jean-Paul Sartre was one of the most famous atheists of the last
century. His father died when he was fifteen months old. He and his
mother lived with his maternal grandparents as his mother cultivated a
very intimate relationship with him. She concentrated her emotional
energy on her son until she remarried when Sartre was twelve. This
idyllic and Oedipal involvement came to an end, and Sartre strongly
rejected his stepfather. In those formative years, Sartre's real father
died, his grandfather was cool and distant, and his stepfather took his
beloved mother away from him. The adolescent Sartre concluded to
himself, "You know what? God doesn't exist." Commentators note that
Sartre obsessed with fatherhood all his life and never got over his
fatherlessness. Dr. Vitz concludes that "his father's absence was such
a painful reality that Jean-Paul spent a lifetime trying to deny the
loss and build a philosophy in which the absence of a father and of God
is the very starting place for the good or authentic life."
Another philosopher during the French Enlightenment disliked his father
so much that he changed his name from Arouet to Voltaire. The two
fought constantly. At one point Voltaire's father was so angry with his
son for his interest in the world of letters rather than taking up a
career in law that he "authorized having his son sent to prison or into
exile in the West Indies." Voltaire was not a true atheist, but rather
a deist who believed in an impersonal God. He was a strident critic of
religion, especially Christianity with its understanding of a personal
God.
Ludwig Feuerbach was a prominent German atheist who was born into a
distinguished and gifted German family. His father was a prominent
jurist who was difficult and undiplomatic with colleagues and family.
The dramatic event in young Ludwig's life must have been his father's
affair with the wife of one his father's friends. They lived together
openly in another town, and she bore him a son. The affair began when
Feuerbach was nine and lasted for nine years. His father publicly
rejected his family, and years later Feuerbach rejected Christianity.
One famous critic of religion said that Feuerbach was so hostile to
Christianity that he would have been called the Antichrist if the world
had ended then.
Each of these men once again illustrates the relationship between
atheism and their fathers.
Burke and Wilberforce
British statesman Edmund Burke is considered by many as the founder of
modern conservative political thought. He was partly raised by his
grandfather and three affectionate uncles. He later wrote of his Uncle
Garret, that he was "one of the very best men, I believe that ever
lived, of the clearest integrity, the most genuine principles of
religion and virtue." His writings are in direct opposition to the
radical principles of the French Revolution. One of his major
criticisms of the French Revolution was its hostility to religion: "We
are not converts of Rousseau; we are not the disciples of Voltaire;
Helevetius has made no progress amongst us. Atheists are not our
preachers." For Burke, God and religion were important pillars of a
just and civil society.
William Wilberforce was an English statesman and abolitionist. His
father died when he was nine years old, and he was sent to live with
his aunt and uncle. He was extremely close to his uncle and to John
Newton who was a frequent visitor to their home. Newton was a former
slave trader who converted to Christ and wrote the famous hymn "Amazing
Grace." Wilberforce first heard of the evils of slavery from Newton's
stories and sermons, "even reverencing him as a parent when [he] was a
child." Wilberforce was an evangelical Christian who went on to serve
in parliament and was instrumental in abolishing the British slave
trade.
As mentioned earlier, Blaise Pascal was a famous mathematician and
religious writer. Pascal's father was a wealthy judge and also an able
mathematician, known as a good man with religious convictions. Pascal's
mother died when he was three, so his father gave up his law practice
and home-schooled Blaise and his sisters. Pascal went on to powerfully
present a Christian perspective at a time when there was considerable
skepticism about religion in France.
I believe Paul Vitz provides an important look at atheists and theists
in his book Faith of the Fatherless. The prominent atheists of the last
few centuries all had defective relationships with their fathers while
the theists enjoyed a strong, loving relationship with a father or a
father substitute. This might be something to compassionately consider
the next time you witness to an atheist.
http://www.probe.org/docs/atheists.html
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1385620/posts
.
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| User: "Parsifal" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheists And Their Absent Fathers |
02 Nov 2005 04:04:49 PM |
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|
*How does one become an atheist? Does a person's relationship with his
*earthly father affect his relationship with his heavenly Father?
Are you serious when you write that *****?
You know that you are, by far, the biggest idiot I have never
encountered on these newsgroups?
You NEVER make sense, all you do is send loooong posting which does not
contain one original idea and you're a liar.
How long do you plan to humiliate yourself?
.
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| User: "JPG" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheists And Their Absent Fathers |
02 Nov 2005 04:21:44 PM |
|
|
Parsifal wrote:
*How does one become an atheist? Does a person's relationship with his
*earthly father affect his relationship with his heavenly Father?
Are you serious when you write that *****?
You know that you are, by far, the biggest idiot I have never
encountered on these newsgroups?
You NEVER make sense, all you do is send loooong posting which does not
contain one original idea and you're a liar.
How long do you plan to humiliate yourself?
Don't worry, Raymond is quite capable of humiliating himself for as
long as he wishes. He has been doing so for many years now on usenet
and is quite capable of making himself and his fundamentalist apologist
buddies look stupid for many more years yet.
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheists And Their Absent Fathers |
02 Nov 2005 05:14:45 PM |
|
|
On 2 Nov 2005 08:21:44 -0800, "JPG"
<j_peasemold_gruntfuttock@hotmail.com> wrote:
Parsifal wrote:
*How does one become an atheist? Does a person's relationship with his
*earthly father affect his relationship with his heavenly Father?
Are you serious when you write that *****?
You know that you are, by far, the biggest idiot I have never
encountered on these newsgroups?
You NEVER make sense, all you do is send loooong posting which does not
contain one original idea and you're a liar.
How long do you plan to humiliate yourself?
Don't worry, Raymond is quite capable of humiliating himself for as
long as he wishes. He has been doing so for many years now on usenet
and is quite capable of making himself and his fundamentalist apologist
buddies look stupid for many more years yet.
The man is a stupid, deliberately in-your-face nasty, bigoted liar.
Every post he makes here demonstrates that.
I mean, you have to be a retard to ask his second question.
And as for the first question, does he want the honest answer or the
diplomatic one?
They reinterpret the diplomatic one to gve them a warm fuzzy feeling
of superiority, and they can't cope with the honest one.
.
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| User: "kathryn" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists And Their Absent Fathers |
02 Nov 2005 06:05:50 PM |
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Er except my father wasn't and never has been absent
try again
.
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| User: "Conspiracy of Doves" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists And Their Absent Fathers |
02 Nov 2005 03:07:46 PM |
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I'm an atheist and I have a good relationship with my father.
I am an atheist for no reason other than the fact that I have never
seen any evidence of a god.
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists And Their Absent Fathers |
03 Nov 2005 10:53:22 PM |
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He posted this a while ago too. I said the same thing you did. No
response. Ever. Guess Words of Truth doesn't like the truth.
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| User: "*nemo*" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists And Their Absent Fathers |
03 Nov 2005 10:27:48 AM |
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In article <1130942572.063188.73190@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
"words of truth" <wordsoftruth@hoshmail.com> wrote:
How does one become an atheist? Does a person's relationship with his
earthly father affect his relationship with his heavenly Father?
I wouldn't know. My father has always been a good role model,
interesting to talk with and always happy to see me. And he's an
atheist.
I personally get along pretty darn well with my son. We went out to see
a basketball game just last night. He's an atheist as well. I can't
imagine where this "heavenly father" ***** enters the equation...
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
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| User: "Piranha tank missionaries" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists And Their Absent Fathers |
02 Nov 2005 11:24:47 PM |
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It started with a Atheists And Their Absent Fathers.
Who (other than "words of truth" <wordsoftruth@hoshmail.com>) would
have guessed it would end like:
How does one become an atheist?
By not becoming brainwashed. It really is that simple.
------------------------------------------------
Conflict over the exact will/purpose/nature of God cannot ever be
resolved, since there are no facts to go on.
D Silverman FLAHN, SMLAHN
AA #2208
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| User: "Brian Belfried" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists And Their Absent Fathers |
03 Nov 2005 05:19:24 AM |
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"Piranha tank missionaries" <yournamehere@martyrdom.com> wrote in message
news:7liim15dj17m1lvh13q4oa45giase7vf5m@4ax.com...
It started with a Atheists And Their Absent Fathers.
Who (other than "words of truth" <wordsoftruth@hoshmail.com>) would
have guessed it would end like:
How does one become an atheist?
By not becoming brainwashed. It really is that simple.
Easy for you to say. No brain to wash. Hence, everything is simple.
------------------------------------------------
Conflict over the exact will/purpose/nature of God cannot ever be
resolved, since there are no facts to go on.
D Silverman FLAHN, SMLAHN
AA #2208
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| User: "Piranha tank missionaries" |
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| Title: Re: Re: Atheists And Their Absent Fathers |
03 Nov 2005 08:57:22 AM |
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It started with a Re: Atheists And Their Absent Fathers.
Who (other than "Brian Belfried" <arlow@campus.com>) would have
guessed it would end like:
"Piranha tank missionaries" <yournamehere@martyrdom.com> wrote in message
news:7liim15dj17m1lvh13q4oa45giase7vf5m@4ax.com...
It started with a Atheists And Their Absent Fathers.
Who (other than "words of truth" <wordsoftruth@hoshmail.com>) would
have guessed it would end like:
How does one become an atheist?
By not becoming brainwashed. It really is that simple.
Easy for you to say. No brain to wash. Hence, everything is simple.
So, o wise one, what is intelligent about believing in God? Share some
of your wisdom with us.....
------------------------------------------------
Conflict over the exact will/purpose/nature of God cannot ever be
resolved, since there are no facts to go on.
D Silverman FLAHN, SMLAHN
AA #2208
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists And Their Absent Fathers |
03 Nov 2005 04:53:55 AM |
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You can tell how big a liar someone is by how many times s/he has to
morph a nym to avoid killfiles.
Susan
On 2-Nov-2005, "words of truth" <wordsoftruth@hoshmail.com> wrote:
[snip crap]
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| User: "Spindler of Puppies" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists And Their Absent Fathers |
03 Nov 2005 09:00:47 PM |
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<flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:DJgaf.3484$wb3.2652@trnddc03...
: You can tell how big a liar someone is by how many times s/he has to
: morph a nym to avoid killfiles.
Not exactly. I like to change nym, email address, .sig,
etc.....purely to avoid terminal monotony (used to be to keep spam
level down). I know there are others who also change for variety.
But you do have some point here, plenty of the scum think they can
fool us with sockpuppets.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists And Their Absent Fathers |
03 Nov 2005 06:36:51 AM |
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wrote:
You can tell how big a liar someone is by how many times s/he has to
morph a nym to avoid killfiles.
Sigh. "morph a nym"? How many times are you going to post
the same boring daft drivel.
"Killfile" - The net equivalent of earplugs for the braindead
and cowards.
Susan
On 2-Nov-2005, "words of truth" <wordsoftruth@hoshmail.com> wrote:
[snip crap]
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists And Their Absent Fathers |
03 Nov 2005 08:01:36 AM |
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On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 04:53:55 GMT, wrote:
You can tell how big a liar someone is by how many times s/he has to
morph a nym to avoid killfiles.
In that case, the three biggest liars...no, wait, the four biggest
liars... on Usenet are Ray Ambrosini, Ken Pangborn, Chris Assaf and
that idiot who always posts the "PROOF LIBERALS ARE WHATEVER"
horsehit.
Yep. Works for me. <G>
Susan
On 2-Nov-2005, "words of truth" <wordsoftruth@hoshmail.com> wrote:
[snip crap]
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| User: "Virgil" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists And Their Absent Fathers |
03 Nov 2005 09:37:08 PM |
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In article <cpgjm19kqac2bu8gh4el77pakmpfv8p4sa@4ax.com>,
John Baker <nunya@biziniz.net> wrote:
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 04:53:55 GMT, wrote:
You can tell how big a liar someone is by how many times s/he has to
morph a nym to avoid killfiles.
In that case, the three biggest liars...no, wait, the four biggest
liars... on Usenet are Ray Ambrosini, Ken Pangborn, Chris Assaf and
that idiot who always posts the "PROOF LIBERALS ARE WHATEVER"
horsehit.
I respectfully nominate Donald Alford, aka "Septic", who has morphed
through well over 100 nyms over several years.
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| User: "Paul Duca" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists And Their Absent Fathers |
03 Nov 2005 08:41:25 AM |
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in article 1130942572.063188.73190@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, words of
truth at wrote on 11/2/05 9:42 AM:
Atheists and Their Fathers
www.probe.org
Kerby Anderson
Perhaps is Kerby--and Words--got to probe more often, they wouldn't
obsess so much about what God MIGHT do for them, if they keep screaming
about Him.
Paul
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists And Their Absent Fathers |
02 Nov 2005 04:32:34 PM |
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words of truth wrote:
Atheists and Their Fathers
www.probe.org
Kerby Anderson
How does one become an atheist? Does a person's relationship with his
earthly father affect his relationship with his heavenly Father? These
are some of the questions we will explore in this article as we talk
about the book Faith of the Fatherless by Paul Vitz. Vitz is a
psychologist who was an atheist himself until his late thirties. He
began to wonder if psychology played a role in one's belief about God.
After all, secular psychologists have been saying that a belief in God
is really nothing more than infantile wish fulfillment. Dr. Vitz
wondered if the shoe was on the other foot. Could it be that atheists
are engaged in unconscious wish fulfillment?
After studying the lives of more than a dozen of the world's most
influential atheists,
More than a dozen? Gosh, with an authoratative survey like that, how
can we argue?
And MMR vaccines cause autism as well.
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| User: "Hyerdahl" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists And Their Absent Fathers |
02 Nov 2005 09:43:41 PM |
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words of truth wrote: Atheists and Their Fathers
www.probe.org
Kerby Anderson
How does one become an atheist? Does a person's relationship with his
earthly father affect his relationship with his heavenly Father?
[I don't know, but I do know that there's a father right now, fighting
the mother of his child and the Christian Coalition so that his child
need not have to say "under God" in the pledge. So, I'm suggesting
here that not all fathers are going to support your dogma in
supersticion.]
After studying the lives of more than a dozen of the world's most
influential atheists, Dr. Vitz discovered that they all had one thing
in common: defective relationships with their fathers. The relationship
was defective because the father was either dead, abusive, weak, or had
abandoned the children. When he studied the lives of influential
theists during those same historical time periods, he found they
enjoyed a strong, loving relationship with a father (or a father
substitute if the father was dead).
[Sexist men would prefer a male-only godhead; it's a way to keep women
on hteir knees or in their place. :-) So, it stands to reason that
women raising children would prefer no male-only godhead. :-)] Your
analysis is interesting but the subject is not as difficult as you're
making it, IMO.
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