| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"TRUECRISTIAN" |
| Date: |
28 Apr 2007 07:51:59 AM |
| Object: |
ATHEISTS SEE:The Lourdes MIRACLESl !!! |
In the 145 years since Bernadette dug up the spring, 67 cures have
been verified by the Lourdes Medical Bureau as miraculous, but only
after what the Church claims are "extremely rigorous scientific and
medical examinations" fail to find any other explanation. The Lourdes
Commission which examined Bernadette after the visions also ran an
intensive analysis on the water, and found that while it has a high
mineral content, it contains nothing out of the ordinary that would
account for the claimed cures. Bernadette herself said that it was
faith and prayer that cured the sick.
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| User: "Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian" |
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| Title: Morontheist SEE: This is where your "logic" gets you |
28 Apr 2007 08:27:14 AM |
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As muslims and other believers report just the same (answered prayers and
miracles), I trust you consider this equal evidence. So, what do we have
now... among many other things, two faiths that both claim to be the only
true one, but both must be true. Kind of... weird, no?
--
"To his friend a man a friend shall prove, and gifts with gifts requite;
But men shall mocking with mockery answer, and fraud with falsehood meet."
(The Poetic Edda)
Must have been written with fundies in mind...
My personal judgment of monotheism:
http://www.carcosa.de/nojebus
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Morontheist SEE: This is where your "logic" gets you |
28 Apr 2007 01:17:11 PM |
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One fine day in alt.atheism, "Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian"
<MAILTOsecretary@carcosa.de> bloodied us up with this:
As muslims and other believers report just the same (answered prayers and
miracles), I trust you consider this equal evidence. So, what do we have
now... among many other things, two faiths that both claim to be the only
true one, but both must be true. Kind of... weird, no?
Kind of impossible, actually, since they both demonize each other.
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Convicted by Earthquack. Plonked by Fester.
Member Duke Spanking Club.
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| User: "Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian" |
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| Title: Re: Morontheist SEE: This is where your "logic" gets you |
28 Apr 2007 10:37:50 PM |
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Uncle Vic:
As muslims and other believers report just the same (answered prayers and
miracles), I trust you consider this equal evidence. So, what do we have
now... among many other things, two faiths that both claim to be the only
true one, but both must be true. Kind of... weird, no?
Kind of impossible, actually, since they both demonize each other.
Correct... but fortunately, that's not _my_ problem. *eg*
--
"To his friend a man a friend shall prove, and gifts with gifts requite;
But men shall mocking with mockery answer, and fraud with falsehood meet."
(The Poetic Edda)
Must have been written with fundies in mind...
My personal judgment of monotheism:
http://www.carcosa.de/nojebus
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| User: "Stephen Knight" |
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| Title: Re: ATHEISTS SEE:The Lourdes MIRACLESl !!! |
28 Apr 2007 10:27:07 PM |
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On 28 Apr 2007 05:51:59 -0700, TRUECRISTIAN <XL5@OPERAMAIL.COM> wrote:
In the 145 years since Bernadette dug up the spring, 67 cures have
been verified by the Lourdes Medical Bureau as miraculous, but only
after what the Church claims are "extremely rigorous scientific and
medical examinations" fail to find any other explanation. The Lourdes
Commission which examined Bernadette after the visions also ran an
intensive analysis on the water, and found that while it has a high
mineral content, it contains nothing out of the ordinary that would
account for the claimed cures. Bernadette herself said that it was
faith and prayer that cured the sick.
Benny Hinn got her beat by a long shot.
Any limbs grow back?
Didn't think so. So much for running your mouth about miracles.
Warlord Steve
BAAWA
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| User: "Budikka666" |
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| Title: Re: ATHEISTS SEE:The Lourdes MIRACLESl !!! |
28 Apr 2007 10:41:59 PM |
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On Apr 28, 7:51 am, TRUECRISTIAN <X...@OPERAMAIL.COM> wrote:
How come you can't spell "Christian" if you're so true?
BTW, it's not the water that needs to be tested, but the minds of the
people. Get it? Got it? Doubt it....
Budikka
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| User: "TRUECRISTIAN" |
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| Title: Re: ATHEISTS SEE:The Lourdes MIRACLESl !!! |
29 Apr 2007 09:09:11 AM |
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You are a frightfully bantering mouth breather and a myopic, enema-
addicted perfidious provincial phillistine,You clusterfucked, chicken-
fucking, latex-licking, toe jam-munching, pimple-chewing, *****-brained
fucktard!
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| User: "Budikka666" |
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| Title: "TRUECRISTIAN" Shows His True Stripe |
29 Apr 2007 12:20:44 PM |
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On Apr 29, 9:09 am, TRUECRISTIAN <X...@OPERAMAIL.COM> wrote:
You are a frightfully bantering mouth breather and a myopic, enema-
addicted perfidious provincial phillistine,You clusterfucked, chicken-
fucking, latex-licking, toe jam-munching, pimple-chewing, *****-brained
fucktard!
I forgive you for you think not what you do.
Budikka
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: ATHEISTS SEE:The Lourdes MIRACLESl !!! |
29 Apr 2007 11:44:22 PM |
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One fine day in alt.atheism, TRUECRISTIAN <XL5@OPERAMAIL.COM> bloodied us
up with this:
You are a frightfully bantering mouth breather and a myopic, enema-
addicted perfidious provincial phillistine,You clusterfucked, chicken-
fucking, latex-licking, toe jam-munching, pimple-chewing, *****-brained
fucktard!
Do you pray to Jesus with that mouth?
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Convicted by Earthquack. Plonked by Fester.
Member Duke Spanking Club.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: ATHEISTS SEE:The Lourdes MIRACLESl !!! |
30 Apr 2007 02:18:33 PM |
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"Uncle Vic" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9921DD29ADBFDvicman@66.250.146.128...
One fine day in alt.atheism, TRUECRISTIAN <XL5@OPERAMAIL.COM> bloodied us
up with this:
You are a frightfully bantering mouth breather and a myopic, enema-
addicted perfidious provincial phillistine,You clusterfucked, chicken-
fucking, latex-licking, toe jam-munching, pimple-chewing, *****-brained
fucktard!
Do you pray to Jesus with that mouth?
No, no, no! The correct question is "Do you blow your priest with that
mouth?" ;)
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
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| User: "Doc Smartass" |
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| Title: Re: ATHEISTS SEE:The Lourdes MIRACLESl !!! |
29 Apr 2007 02:53:20 PM |
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TRUECRISTIAN <XL5@OPERAMAIL.COM> wrote in news:1177855751.700609.112530
@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:
You are a frightfully bantering mouth breather and a myopic, enema-
addicted perfidious provincial phillistine,You clusterfucked, chicken-
fucking, latex-licking, toe jam-munching, pimple-chewing, *****-brained
fucktard!
Look, son, if you're gonna try to bogart Harry Teasley's flaming style, you
need to get the rhythm right.
http://tafkac.org/afu/snide/current/intramural_flame.html
--
Doc Smartass, BAAWA Knight of Heckling
aa # 1939
Help Prevent Projectile Stupidity
Duct-Tape a Fundie's Mouth Shut Today!
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| User: "MarkA" |
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| Title: Re: ATHEISTS SEE:The Lourdes MIRACLESl !!! |
29 Apr 2007 09:34:39 PM |
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On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 05:51:59 -0700, TRUECRISTIAN wrote:
In the 145 years since Bernadette dug up the spring, 67 cures have been
verified ...
67 cures in 145 years??? How many *millions* of people have visited the
shrine in that time? So, is God lazy, indifferent, impotent, or
non-existant?
--
MarkA
(this space accidentally filled in)
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| User: "MarkA" |
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| Title: Re: ATHEISTS SEE:The Lourdes MIRACLESl !!! |
28 Apr 2007 09:11:05 AM |
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On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 05:51:59 -0700, TRUECRISTIAN wrote:
In the 145 years since Bernadette dug up the spring, 67 cures have been
verified by the Lourdes Medical Bureau as miraculous, but only after what
the Church claims are "extremely rigorous scientific and medical
examinations" fail to find any other explanation. The Lourdes Commission
which examined Bernadette after the visions also ran an intensive analysis
on the water, and found that while it has a high mineral content, it
contains nothing out of the ordinary that would account for the claimed
cures. Bernadette herself said that it was faith and prayer that cured the
sick.
If you compare the rate of "cures" at Lourdes versus the rate of
spontaneous improvement in the same diseases, it turns out that you have a
better chance of "cure" if you *avoid* Lourdes.
"Extremely rigorous scientific and medical examinations" fail to find an
explanation for many cases of spontaneous improvement, even those not
associated with religious shrines or artifacts.
--
MarkA
(this space accidentally filled in)
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| User: "Doc Smartass" |
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| Title: Re: ATHEISTS SEE:The Lourdes MIRACLESl !!! |
28 Apr 2007 07:09:19 PM |
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TRUECRISTIAN <XL5@OPERAMAIL.COM> wrote in news:1177764719.905868.4200
@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com:
In the 145 years since Bernadette dug up the spring, 67 cures have
Bernadette Peters? She's not that old. Still hot, too.
been verified by the Lourdes Medical Bureau as miraculous, but only
It'd be "miraculous" if it ever happened, but it never happened.
after what the Church claims are "extremely rigorous scientific and
medical examinations" fail to find any other explanation. The Lourdes
Their idea of "rigorous scientific and medical examination" involves
cracking open a couple of fresh altar boys.
Commission which examined Bernadette after the visions also ran an
I'd like to examine Bernadette.
http://tinyurl.com/2z5uky
intensive analysis on the water, and found that while it has a high
mineral content, it contains nothing out of the ordinary that would
account for the claimed cures. Bernadette herself said that it was
faith and prayer that cured the sick.
No, it didn't. Her trumpet playing did.
--
Doc Smartass, BAAWA Knight of Heckling
aa # 1939
Help Prevent Projectile Stupidity
Duct-Tape a Fundie's Mouth Shut Today!
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| User: "ike milligan" |
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| Title: Re: ATHEISTS SEE:The Lourdes MIRACLESl !!! |
28 Apr 2007 09:43:04 PM |
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"Doc Smartass" <gekido@astroskivviesboymail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9920C30201B6Easkifyouwantit@216.77.188.18...
TRUECRISTIAN <XL5@OPERAMAIL.COM> wrote in news:1177764719.905868.4200
@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com:
In the 145 years since Bernadette dug up the spring, 67 cures have
Bernadette Peters? She's not that old. Still hot, too.
been verified by the Lourdes Medical Bureau as miraculous, but only
It'd be "miraculous" if it ever happened, but it never happened.
after what the Church claims are "extremely rigorous scientific and
medical examinations" fail to find any other explanation. The Lourdes
Their idea of "rigorous scientific and medical examination" involves
cracking open a couple of fresh altar boys.
Commission which examined Bernadette after the visions also ran an
I'd like to examine Bernadette.
http://tinyurl.com/2z5uky
intensive analysis on the water, and found that while it has a high
mineral content, it contains nothing out of the ordinary that would
account for the claimed cures. Bernadette herself said that it was
faith and prayer that cured the sick.
No, it didn't. Her trumpet playing did.
Trumpet playing or accordion playing of certain music can heal people, but
only if they believe in it, and repent from sin. Problem is, I haven't
tested it scientifically because people are too busy dying, to participate
in a study. Haven't tried to get got funding because the project would get
ridiculed by the opposing party to whatever party passed a law to fund it.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: ATHEISTS SEE:The Lourdes MIRACLESl !!! |
29 Apr 2007 02:01:03 PM |
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TRUECRISTIAN wrote:
In the 145 years since Bernadette dug up the spring, 67 cures have
been verified by the Lourdes Medical Bureau as miraculous, but only
after what the Church claims are "extremely rigorous scientific and
medical examinations" fail to find any other explanation. The Lourdes
Commission which examined Bernadette after the visions also ran an
intensive analysis on the water, and found that while it has a high
mineral content, it contains nothing out of the ordinary that would
account for the claimed cures. Bernadette herself said that it was
faith and prayer that cured the sick.
I'd suggest you check your sources and note the number of "cures" fall as
medical knowledge increases and those cures are actually investigated.
http://www.studentbmj.com/back_issues/0202/life/33.html shows that your
numbers are off and gives a bit more information.
"It is interesting to compare the number of cures recognized before and
after the establishment of the medical bureau in 1947. The ratio of cures to
sick pilgrims before 1914 was 1:100. From 1914 to 1928 it was 1:700, but
from 1928 to 1947 it was 1:1600. In all, 5000 cures were claimed before
1947. From 1947 to 1990, only 1000 cures were claimed and only 56 were
recognized in that time, averaging 1.3 cures a year, against 57 a year
before 1914. "
However, it would not surprise me if 0.000067 percent (conservatively) slip
past for unknown reasons.
Suppose you have a "heart attack" and go to a hospital.
They run extensive tests and find nothing wrong.
You go home.
There is about a 30% chance that you will die and that when they do the
autopsy they will find that you did indeed have a heart attack the first
time and it killed you the second time.
With all modern medicine offers, pain in the left arm and in the chest is
still the single best clue and it may be wrong.
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| User: "Kelsey Bjarnason" |
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| Title: Re: ATHEISTS SEE:The Lourdes MIRACLESl !!! |
01 May 2007 02:39:45 PM |
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[snips]
On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 05:51:59 -0700, TRUECRISTIAN wrote:
In the 145 years since Bernadette dug up the spring, 67 cures have
been verified by the Lourdes Medical Bureau as miraculous, but only
after what the Church claims are "extremely rigorous scientific and
medical examinations" fail to find any other explanation.
And thus you demonstrate why the entire thing is complete and utter
*****. When faced with a question one cannot answer, the *correct*
answer is "I don't know". It is *not* "Well, I'm going to pretend there's
this magic sky fairy, see, and he - yeah, it's male, except it isn't
really, because it's a god, not a person - he has all these wonderful
powers and can do all sorts of neat things... sorry? No, no, you can't
see him, it's not that he's invisible or anything, but you have to just
believe, see, that's the only way he'll accept you, where was I? Oh,
right, he's got all these magic powers and can do anything, so, see that
must be why these people got better, but the others, well, I guess they
must all be bad people or something because he didn't cure them and I
don't really know, see he's magic and powerful and all that so we can't
really understand him, but he did it, see, you just gotta believe!"
Yes, well, truly compelling.
Again, in case you forgot already: when faced with a question one cannot
answer, the *correct* answer is "I don't know."
Now, want to try again, this time *not* replacing "I don't know" with
tales of some asinine god-concept? Of course, if you want to bring this
god-thing in, fine, great, marvelous... but you'll have to at least show
that it actually *exists* before we're going to buy that it cured
anything. Feel free. Anytime.
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