| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Greg Flynn" |
| Date: |
12 Nov 2005 10:23:16 PM |
| Object: |
Athiesm is Impossible |
Athiesm posits that the universe wasn't created, therefore, it assumes one
of two other possiblities.
1. The universe was created from nothing by nothing
2. The universe has always existed.
Since the first case is strictly contradictory then only the second case is
worthy of consideration. I say that the second case is impossible and I
believe I can show this in five steps. Rather then revealing all five steps
I will reveal them one at a time. If the first step is conceded then I will
move on to the second. I assume that the first will never be conceded,
therefore, there is no reason to reveal any of the other steps. I don't
want to reveal the other parts because I think it would allow for focus on
the current part to be lost.
Step One.
Can any material object be divided an infinite number of times? What is
your opinion? Please state reasons. Of course I will reveal my opinion but
I want to see how folks answer this question, hoping that I can jump start
this argument and by-pass what isn't truely necessary.
Greg
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Athiesm is Impossible |
13 Nov 2005 11:47:10 AM |
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On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 06:29:30 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 13 Nov 2005 04:31:04 GMT, Enkidu the Atheist <enkidu@leaddogs.org> wrote:
"Greg Flynn" <bunpokeNOSPAM@verizon.net> wrote in
news:Uczdf.6031$5R4.182@trnddc06:
Athiesm posits that the universe wasn't created, therefore, it assumes
one of two other possiblities.
1. The universe was created from nothing by nothing
2. The universe has always existed.
Atheism posits nothing of the kind. If it posits anything at all, it's
that there has been no complelling evidence that any god or gods exist.
So where did the universe come from?
So where did the creator come from?
Now there's some compelling evidence I want to see.
Now there's some compelling evidence I want to see
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
.
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| User: "Jason" |
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| Title: Re: Athiesm is Impossible |
13 Nov 2005 12:05:09 PM |
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In article <bvuen1hr74e3cbh4i6nek4m5r1k0k0npdc@4ax.com>, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 06:29:30 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 13 Nov 2005 04:31:04 GMT, Enkidu the Atheist <enkidu@leaddogs.org> wrote:
"Greg Flynn" <bunpokeNOSPAM@verizon.net> wrote in
news:Uczdf.6031$5R4.182@trnddc06:
Athiesm posits that the universe wasn't created, therefore, it assumes
one of two other possiblities.
1. The universe was created from nothing by nothing
2. The universe has always existed.
Atheism posits nothing of the kind. If it posits anything at all, it's
that there has been no complelling evidence that any god or gods exist.
So where did the universe come from?
So where did the creator come from?
Les,
Yu answered a question with a question. I would like to see your answer to
the question:
Where did the universe come from?
Now there's some compelling evidence I want to see.
Now there's some compelling evidence I want to see
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
.
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| User: "kathryn" |
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| Title: Re: Athiesm is Impossible |
13 Nov 2005 12:20:01 PM |
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"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-1311051005090001@pm4-broad-52.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
In article <bvuen1hr74e3cbh4i6nek4m5r1k0k0npdc@4ax.com>, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 06:29:30 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 13 Nov 2005 04:31:04 GMT, Enkidu the Atheist <enkidu@leaddogs.org>
wrote:
"Greg Flynn" <bunpokeNOSPAM@verizon.net> wrote in
news:Uczdf.6031$5R4.182@trnddc06:
Athiesm posits that the universe wasn't created, therefore, it
assumes
one of two other possiblities.
1. The universe was created from nothing by nothing
2. The universe has always existed.
Atheism posits nothing of the kind. If it posits anything at all, it's
that there has been no complelling evidence that any god or gods exist.
So where did the universe come from?
So where did the creator come from?
Les,
Yu answered a question with a question. I would like to see your answer to
the question:
Where did the universe come from?
Who says atheists have to know? I'm more than happy to admit I don't have a
clue, I leave it to the scientists. However at one point we didn't know
where fire came from either. Not knowing how something came about or how it
works doesn't mean that it must of been created by a higher being, it just
means that we haven't figured it out yet.
.
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| User: "Bear" |
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| Title: Re: Athiesm is Impossible |
13 Nov 2005 12:28:25 PM |
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"kathryn" wrote
: Who says atheists have to know? I'm more than happy to admit I don't have
a
: clue, I leave it to the scientists. However at one point we didn't know
: where fire came from either. Not knowing how something came about or how
it
: works doesn't mean that it must of been created by a higher being, it just
: means that we haven't figured it out yet.
Well said!
--
Bear
There but for circumstances go I.
It is the right and the duty of every person to rationally and skeptically
examine a proposition before accepting it, and if that proposition turns out
to not be supported by logic or evidence, it is the mark of a mature mind to
be able to set it aside and face life as it really is.
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Athiesm is Impossible |
13 Nov 2005 01:44:12 PM |
|
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"Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:ErOdnZxwZq5AGOreRVn-rg@comcast.com...
"kathryn" wrote
: Who says atheists have to know? I'm more than happy to admit I don't
have
a
: clue, I leave it to the scientists. However at one point we didn't know
: where fire came from either. Not knowing how something came about or
how
it
: works doesn't mean that it must of been created by a higher being, it
just
: means that we haven't figured it out yet.
Well said!
Exactly :)
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Athiesm is Impossible |
15 Nov 2005 01:16:46 AM |
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In article <dl804h$ihe$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
"kathryn" <nospam@here.com> wrote:
"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-1311051005090001@pm4-broad-52.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
In article <bvuen1hr74e3cbh4i6nek4m5r1k0k0npdc@4ax.com>, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 06:29:30 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 13 Nov 2005 04:31:04 GMT, Enkidu the Atheist <enkidu@leaddogs.org>
wrote:
"Greg Flynn" <bunpokeNOSPAM@verizon.net> wrote in
news:Uczdf.6031$5R4.182@trnddc06:
Athiesm posits that the universe wasn't created, therefore, it
assumes
one of two other possiblities.
1. The universe was created from nothing by nothing
2. The universe has always existed.
Atheism posits nothing of the kind. If it posits anything at all, it's
that there has been no complelling evidence that any god or gods exist.
So where did the universe come from?
So where did the creator come from?
Les,
Yu answered a question with a question. I would like to see your answer to
the question:
Where did the universe come from?
Who says atheists have to know? I'm more than happy to admit I don't have a
clue, I leave it to the scientists. However at one point we didn't know
where fire came from either. Not knowing how something came about or how it
works doesn't mean that it must of been created by a higher being, it just
means that we haven't figured it out yet.
Exactly. "We don't know" is perfectly valid and honest scientific
answer. All it means is that at present we lack sufficient data to make
a call. It is not evidence for the supernatural.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: Athiesm is Impossible |
15 Nov 2005 01:22:59 AM |
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On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 23:16:46 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com>
wrote:
In article <dl804h$ihe$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
"kathryn" <nospam@here.com> wrote:
"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-1311051005090001@pm4-broad-52.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
In article <bvuen1hr74e3cbh4i6nek4m5r1k0k0npdc@4ax.com>, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 06:29:30 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 13 Nov 2005 04:31:04 GMT, Enkidu the Atheist <enkidu@leaddogs.org>
wrote:
"Greg Flynn" <bunpokeNOSPAM@verizon.net> wrote in
news:Uczdf.6031$5R4.182@trnddc06:
Athiesm posits that the universe wasn't created, therefore, it
assumes
one of two other possiblities.
1. The universe was created from nothing by nothing
2. The universe has always existed.
Atheism posits nothing of the kind. If it posits anything at all, it's
that there has been no complelling evidence that any god or gods exist.
So where did the universe come from?
So where did the creator come from?
Les,
Yu answered a question with a question. I would like to see your answer to
the question:
Where did the universe come from?
Who says atheists have to know? I'm more than happy to admit I don't have a
clue, I leave it to the scientists. However at one point we didn't know
where fire came from either. Not knowing how something came about or how it
works doesn't mean that it must of been created by a higher being, it just
means that we haven't figured it out yet.
Exactly. "We don't know" is perfectly valid and honest scientific
answer. All it means is that at present we lack sufficient data to make
a call. It is not evidence for the supernatural.
As a theist, he has a metaphysical fixation on the origins of the
universe, which he imagines can only be answered by his religion.
He can't imagine those without that fixation. And he projects it onto
everybody else.
So he imagines that modern science is some kind of catechism
equivalent to his own.
.
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| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Athiesm is Impossible |
16 Nov 2005 12:44:36 AM |
|
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In article <nt2jn11h0bh3gemt8qd8bjp6eb9s7mcd7u@4ax.com>,
Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 23:16:46 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com>
wrote:
In article <dl804h$ihe$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
"kathryn" <nospam@here.com> wrote:
"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-1311051005090001@pm4-broad-52.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
In article <bvuen1hr74e3cbh4i6nek4m5r1k0k0npdc@4ax.com>, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 06:29:30 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 13 Nov 2005 04:31:04 GMT, Enkidu the Atheist <enkidu@leaddogs.org>
wrote:
"Greg Flynn" <bunpokeNOSPAM@verizon.net> wrote in
news:Uczdf.6031$5R4.182@trnddc06:
Athiesm posits that the universe wasn't created, therefore, it
assumes
one of two other possiblities.
1. The universe was created from nothing by nothing
2. The universe has always existed.
Atheism posits nothing of the kind. If it posits anything at all,
it's
that there has been no complelling evidence that any god or gods
exist.
So where did the universe come from?
So where did the creator come from?
Les,
Yu answered a question with a question. I would like to see your answer
to
the question:
Where did the universe come from?
Who says atheists have to know? I'm more than happy to admit I don't have
a
clue, I leave it to the scientists. However at one point we didn't know
where fire came from either. Not knowing how something came about or how
it
works doesn't mean that it must of been created by a higher being, it just
means that we haven't figured it out yet.
Exactly. "We don't know" is perfectly valid and honest scientific
answer. All it means is that at present we lack sufficient data to make
a call. It is not evidence for the supernatural.
As a theist, he has a metaphysical fixation on the origins of the
universe, which he imagines can only be answered by his religion.
He can't imagine those without that fixation. And he projects it onto
everybody else.
So he imagines that modern science is some kind of catechism
equivalent to his own.
No doubt since he also thinks that atheism is a religion.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
.
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| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Athiesm is Impossible |
17 Nov 2005 10:06:06 AM |
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On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 22:44:36 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com>
wrote:
In article <nt2jn11h0bh3gemt8qd8bjp6eb9s7mcd7u@4ax.com>,
Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 23:16:46 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com>
wrote:
In article <dl804h$ihe$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
"kathryn" <nospam@here.com> wrote:
"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-1311051005090001@pm4-broad-52.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
In article <bvuen1hr74e3cbh4i6nek4m5r1k0k0npdc@4ax.com>, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 06:29:30 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 13 Nov 2005 04:31:04 GMT, Enkidu the Atheist <enkidu@leaddogs.org>
wrote:
"Greg Flynn" <bunpokeNOSPAM@verizon.net> wrote in
news:Uczdf.6031$5R4.182@trnddc06:
Athiesm posits that the universe wasn't created, therefore, it
assumes
one of two other possiblities.
1. The universe was created from nothing by nothing
2. The universe has always existed.
Atheism posits nothing of the kind. If it posits anything at all,
it's
that there has been no complelling evidence that any god or gods
exist.
So where did the universe come from?
So where did the creator come from?
Les,
Yu answered a question with a question. I would like to see your answer
to
the question:
Where did the universe come from?
Who says atheists have to know? I'm more than happy to admit I don't have
a
clue, I leave it to the scientists. However at one point we didn't know
where fire came from either. Not knowing how something came about or how
it
works doesn't mean that it must of been created by a higher being, it just
means that we haven't figured it out yet.
Exactly. "We don't know" is perfectly valid and honest scientific
answer. All it means is that at present we lack sufficient data to make
a call. It is not evidence for the supernatural.
As a theist, he has a metaphysical fixation on the origins of the
universe, which he imagines can only be answered by his religion.
He can't imagine those without that fixation. And he projects it onto
everybody else.
So he imagines that modern science is some kind of catechism
equivalent to his own.
No doubt since he also thinks that atheism is a religion.
'Thinks?' The hypothesis fails due to the dearth of supporting
evidence and much negative.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
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| User: "Jason" |
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| Title: Re: Athiesm is Impossible |
13 Nov 2005 01:35:07 PM |
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In article <dl804h$ihe$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, "kathryn"
<nospam@here.com> wrote:
"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-1311051005090001@pm4-broad-52.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
In article <bvuen1hr74e3cbh4i6nek4m5r1k0k0npdc@4ax.com>, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 06:29:30 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 13 Nov 2005 04:31:04 GMT, Enkidu the Atheist <enkidu@leaddogs.org>
wrote:
"Greg Flynn" <bunpokeNOSPAM@verizon.net> wrote in
news:Uczdf.6031$5R4.182@trnddc06:
Athiesm posits that the universe wasn't created, therefore, it
assumes
one of two other possiblities.
1. The universe was created from nothing by nothing
2. The universe has always existed.
Atheism posits nothing of the kind. If it posits anything at all, it's
that there has been no complelling evidence that any god or gods exist.
So where did the universe come from?
So where did the creator come from?
Les,
Yu answered a question with a question. I would like to see your answer to
the question:
Where did the universe come from?
Who says atheists have to know? I'm more than happy to admit I don't have a
clue, I leave it to the scientists. However at one point we didn't know
where fire came from either. Not knowing how something came about or how it
works doesn't mean that it must of been created by a higher being, it just
means that we haven't figured it out yet.
Hello,
Thanks for your post. Thanks also for being honest. Most evolutionists
won't admit that they "don't have a clue" how the universe came to be.
They demand that advocates of creation science tell them how God came to
be or proof that God created life on this planet. However, they have no
real answers for questions like the above question. They also can't prove
that life can evolve from non-life.
Jason
--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Athiesm is Impossible |
13 Nov 2005 01:45:39 PM |
|
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"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-1311051135070001@pm1-broad-100.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
In article <dl804h$ihe$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, "kathryn"
<nospam@here.com> wrote:
"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-1311051005090001@pm4-broad-52.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
In article <bvuen1hr74e3cbh4i6nek4m5r1k0k0npdc@4ax.com>, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 06:29:30 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 13 Nov 2005 04:31:04 GMT, Enkidu the Atheist <enkidu@leaddogs.org>
wrote:
"Greg Flynn" <bunpokeNOSPAM@verizon.net> wrote in
news:Uczdf.6031$5R4.182@trnddc06:
Athiesm posits that the universe wasn't created, therefore, it
assumes
one of two other possiblities.
1. The universe was created from nothing by nothing
2. The universe has always existed.
Atheism posits nothing of the kind. If it posits anything at all,
it's
that there has been no complelling evidence that any god or gods
exist.
So where did the universe come from?
So where did the creator come from?
Les,
Yu answered a question with a question. I would like to see your answer
to
the question:
Where did the universe come from?
Who says atheists have to know? I'm more than happy to admit I don't
have a
clue, I leave it to the scientists. However at one point we didn't know
where fire came from either. Not knowing how something came about or how
it
works doesn't mean that it must of been created by a higher being, it
just
means that we haven't figured it out yet.
Hello,
Thanks for your post. Thanks also for being honest. Most evolutionists
won't admit that they "don't have a clue" how the universe came to be.
They demand that advocates of creation science tell them how God came to
be or proof that God created life on this planet. However, they have no
real answers for questions like the above question. They also can't prove
that life can evolve from non-life.
Just because it hasn't been proven yet, doesn't automatically mean that it's
the work of some kind of god. I realize that's YOUR fallback position, but
that doesn't cut it for everyone. I'm quite satisfied with having
absolutely no idea how the universe and/or life came to be.
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
.
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| User: "kathryn" |
|
| Title: Re: Athiesm is Impossible |
14 Nov 2005 01:40:19 PM |
|
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"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-1311051135070001@pm1-broad-100.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
In article <dl804h$ihe$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, "kathryn"
<nospam@here.com> wrote:
"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-1311051005090001@pm4-broad-52.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
In article <bvuen1hr74e3cbh4i6nek4m5r1k0k0npdc@4ax.com>, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 06:29:30 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 13 Nov 2005 04:31:04 GMT, Enkidu the Atheist <enkidu@leaddogs.org>
wrote:
"Greg Flynn" <bunpokeNOSPAM@verizon.net> wrote in
news:Uczdf.6031$5R4.182@trnddc06:
Athiesm posits that the universe wasn't created, therefore, it
assumes
one of two other possiblities.
1. The universe was created from nothing by nothing
2. The universe has always existed.
Atheism posits nothing of the kind. If it posits anything at all,
it's
that there has been no complelling evidence that any god or gods
exist.
So where did the universe come from?
So where did the creator come from?
Les,
Yu answered a question with a question. I would like to see your answer
to
the question:
Where did the universe come from?
Who says atheists have to know? I'm more than happy to admit I don't
have a
clue, I leave it to the scientists. However at one point we didn't know
where fire came from either. Not knowing how something came about or how
it
works doesn't mean that it must of been created by a higher being, it
just
means that we haven't figured it out yet.
Hello,
Thanks for your post. Thanks also for being honest. Most evolutionists
won't admit that they "don't have a clue" how the universe came to be.
They demand that advocates of creation science tell them how God came to
be or proof that God created life on this planet. However, they have no
real answers for questions like the above question. They also can't prove
that life can evolve from non-life.
Jason
I think you'll find that someone who purports a theory of how something
works generally has some evidence to back up. I certainly remember in
school being told that as long as you had evidence to back up what you were
saying you could use any argument you liked - this applied to anything from
English to politics, history, media studies. If you believe that a god
exists and created the universe, fine, but don't expect people just to
believe it, at least provide some evidence of it.
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Athiesm is Impossible |
15 Nov 2005 06:43:16 PM |
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On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 19:40:19 +0000 (UTC), "kathryn" <nospam@here.com>
wrote:
"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-1311051135070001@pm1-broad-100.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
In article <dl804h$ihe$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, "kathryn"
<nospam@here.com> wrote:
"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-1311051005090001@pm4-broad-52.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
In article <bvuen1hr74e3cbh4i6nek4m5r1k0k0npdc@4ax.com>, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 06:29:30 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 13 Nov 2005 04:31:04 GMT, Enkidu the Atheist <enkidu@leaddogs.org>
wrote:
"Greg Flynn" <bunpokeNOSPAM@verizon.net> wrote in
news:Uczdf.6031$5R4.182@trnddc06:
Athiesm posits that the universe wasn't created, therefore, it
assumes
one of two other possiblities.
1. The universe was created from nothing by nothing
2. The universe has always existed.
Atheism posits nothing of the kind. If it posits anything at all,
it's
that there has been no complelling evidence that any god or gods
exist.
So where did the universe come from?
So where did the creator come from?
Les,
Yu answered a question with a question. I would like to see your answer
to
the question:
Where did the universe come from?
Who says atheists have to know? I'm more than happy to admit I don't
have a
clue, I leave it to the scientists. However at one point we didn't know
where fire came from either. Not knowing how something came about or how
it
works doesn't mean that it must of been created by a higher being, it
just
means that we haven't figured it out yet.
Hello,
Thanks for your post. Thanks also for being honest. Most evolutionists
won't admit that they "don't have a clue" how the universe came to be.
They demand that advocates of creation science tell them how God came to
be or proof that God created life on this planet. However, they have no
real answers for questions like the above question. They also can't prove
that life can evolve from non-life.
Jason
I think you'll find that someone who purports a theory of how something
works generally has some evidence to back up. I certainly remember in
school being told that as long as you had evidence to back up what you were
saying you could use any argument you liked - this applied to anything from
English to politics, history, media studies. If you believe that a god
exists and created the universe, fine, but don't expect people just to
believe it, at least provide some evidence of it.
First Christians require a coherant definition for the g-o-d letter
string.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Athiesm is Impossible |
16 Nov 2005 07:47:56 AM |
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On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 16:43:16 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 19:40:19 +0000 (UTC), "kathryn" <nospam@here.com>
wrote:
"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-1311051135070001@pm1-broad-100.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
In article <dl804h$ihe$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, "kathryn"
<nospam@here.com> wrote:
"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-1311051005090001@pm4-broad-52.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
In article <bvuen1hr74e3cbh4i6nek4m5r1k0k0npdc@4ax.com>, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 06:29:30 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 13 Nov 2005 04:31:04 GMT, Enkidu the Atheist <enkidu@leaddogs.org>
wrote:
"Greg Flynn" <bunpokeNOSPAM@verizon.net> wrote in
news:Uczdf.6031$5R4.182@trnddc06:
Athiesm posits that the universe wasn't created, therefore, it
assumes
one of two other possiblities.
1. The universe was created from nothing by nothing
2. The universe has always existed.
Atheism posits nothing of the kind. If it posits anything at all,
it's
that there has been no complelling evidence that any god or gods
exist.
So where did the universe come from?
So where did the creator come from?
Les,
Yu answered a question with a question. I would like to see your answer
to
the question:
Where did the universe come from?
Who says atheists have to know? I'm more than happy to admit I don't
have a
clue, I leave it to the scientists. However at one point we didn't know
where fire came from either. Not knowing how something came about or how
it
works doesn't mean that it must of been created by a higher being, it
just
means that we haven't figured it out yet.
Hello,
Thanks for your post. Thanks also for being honest. Most evolutionists
won't admit that they "don't have a clue" how the universe came to be.
They demand that advocates of creation science tell them how God came to
be or proof that God created life on this planet. However, they have no
real answers for questions like the above question. They also can't prove
that life can evolve from non-life.
Jason
I think you'll find that someone who purports a theory of how something
works generally has some evidence to back up. I certainly remember in
school being told that as long as you had evidence to back up what you were
saying you could use any argument you liked - this applied to anything from
English to politics, history, media studies.
Sounds like you went to a much better school than Jason.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Athiesm is Impossible |
14 Nov 2005 03:16:11 PM |
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On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 19:40:19 +0000 (UTC), "kathryn" <nospam@here.com>
wrote:
"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-1311051135070001@pm1-broad-100.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
In article <dl804h$ihe$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, "kathryn"
<nospam@here.com> wrote:
"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-1311051005090001@pm4-broad-52.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
In article <bvuen1hr74e3cbh4i6nek4m5r1k0k0npdc@4ax.com>, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 06:29:30 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 13 Nov 2005 04:31:04 GMT, Enkidu the Atheist <enkidu@leaddogs.org>
wrote:
"Greg Flynn" <bunpokeNOSPAM@verizon.net> wrote in
news:Uczdf.6031$5R4.182@trnddc06:
Athiesm posits that the universe wasn't created, therefore, it
assumes
one of two other possiblities.
1. The universe was created from nothing by nothing
2. The universe has always existed.
Atheism posits nothing of the kind. If it posits anything at all,
it's
that there has been no complelling evidence that any god or gods
exist.
So where did the universe come from?
So where did the creator come from?
Les,
Yu answered a question with a question. I would like to see your answer
to
the question:
Where did the universe come from?
Who says atheists have to know? I'm more than happy to admit I don't
have a
clue, I leave it to the scientists. However at one point we didn't know
where fire came from either. Not knowing how something came about or how
it
works doesn't mean that it must of been created by a higher being, it
just
means that we haven't figured it out yet.
Hello,
Thanks for your post. Thanks also for being honest. Most evolutionists
won't admit that they "don't have a clue" how the universe came to be.
They demand that advocates of creation science tell them how God came to
be or proof that God created life on this planet. However, they have no
real answers for questions like the above question. They also can't prove
that life can evolve from non-life.
Jason
I think you'll find that someone who purports a theory of how something
works generally has some evidence to back up. I certainly remember in
school being told that as long as you had evidence to back up what you were
saying you could use any argument you liked - this applied to anything from
English to politics, history, media studies. If you believe that a god
exists and created the universe, fine, but don't expect people just to
believe it, at least provide some evidence of it.
In short: An opinion or belief is only as good as the evidence that
supports it.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
.
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| User: "Llanzlan Klazmon" |
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| Title: Re: Athiesm is Impossible |
13 Nov 2005 04:33:48 PM |
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(Jason) wrote in
news:jason-1311051135070001@pm1-broad-100.snlo.dialup.fix.net:
In article <dl804h$ihe$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
"kathryn" <nospam@here.com> wrote:
"Jason" < > wrote in message
news:jason-1311051005090001@pm4-broad-52.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
In article <bvuen1hr74e3cbh4i6nek4m5r1k0k0npdc@4ax.com>, Les
Hellawell <myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 06:29:30 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net>
wrote:
On 13 Nov 2005 04:31:04 GMT, Enkidu the Atheist
<enkidu@leaddogs.org> wrote:
"Greg Flynn" <bunpokeNOSPAM@verizon.net> wrote in
news:Uczdf.6031$5R4.182@trnddc06:
Athiesm posits that the universe wasn't created, therefore, it
assumes
one of two other possiblities.
1. The universe was created from nothing by nothing
2. The universe has always existed.
Atheism posits nothing of the kind. If it posits anything at all,
it's that there has been no complelling evidence that any god or
gods exist.
So where did the universe come from?
So where did the creator come from?
Les,
Yu answered a question with a question. I would like to see your
answer to the question:
Where did the universe come from?
Who says atheists have to know? I'm more than happy to admit I don't
have a clue, I leave it to the scientists. However at one point we
didn't know where fire came from either. Not knowing how something
came about or how it works doesn't mean that it must of been created by
a higher being, it just means that we haven't figured it out yet.
Hello,
Thanks for your post. Thanks also for being honest. Most evolutionists
won't admit that they "don't have a clue" how the universe came to be.
That appears to be a lie on your part or cite the evolutionists who won't
admit this.
They demand that advocates of creation science tell them how God came to
be or proof that God created life on this planet.
If you are making such a claim it is reasonable for someone request
evidence of the claim.
However, they have no
real answers for questions like the above question. They also can't
prove that life can evolve from non-life.
Life from non life is pretty much a given. The scientific evidence suggests
that the universe was inhospitable to life during the early epochs. Even if
you are a creationist you would agree that life didn't always exist. The
creationist says that life came about through the intervention of a
supernatural being - according to one story humans were made directly out
of dust. That is curious because dust is mostly silicates and there is very
little silicates in a human being.
The scientific study of this subject is a field known as abiogenesis which
does not yet understand the process. However if you put yourself in the
position that your religious beliefs depend on a particular branch of
science not figuring something out - that is a pretty stupid position IMO.
Klazmon.
.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Athiesm is Impossible |
14 Nov 2005 06:21:07 AM |
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On 14 Nov 2005 11:33:48 +1300, Llanzlan Klazmon
<Klazmon@llurdiaxorb.govt> wrote:
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
news:jason-1311051135070001@pm1-broad-100.snlo.dialup.fix.net:
In article <dl804h$ihe$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
"kathryn" <nospam@here.com> wrote:
"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-1311051005090001@pm4-broad-52.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
In article <bvuen1hr74e3cbh4i6nek4m5r1k0k0npdc@4ax.com>, Les
Hellawell <myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 06:29:30 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net>
wrote:
On 13 Nov 2005 04:31:04 GMT, Enkidu the Atheist
<enkidu@leaddogs.org> wrote:
"Greg Flynn" <bunpokeNOSPAM@verizon.net> wrote in
news:Uczdf.6031$5R4.182@trnddc06:
Athiesm posits that the universe wasn't created, therefore, it
assumes
one of two other possiblities.
1. The universe was created from nothing by nothing
2. The universe has always existed.
Atheism posits nothing of the kind. If it posits anything at all,
it's that there has been no complelling evidence that any god or
gods exist.
So where did the universe come from?
So where did the creator come from?
Les,
Yu answered a question with a question. I would like to see your
answer to the question:
Where did the universe come from?
Who says atheists have to know? I'm more than happy to admit I don't
have a clue, I leave it to the scientists. However at one point we
didn't know where fire came from either. Not knowing how something
came about or how it works doesn't mean that it must of been created by
a higher being, it just means that we haven't figured it out yet.
Hello,
Thanks for your post. Thanks also for being honest. Most evolutionists
won't admit that they "don't have a clue" how the universe came to be.
That appears to be a lie on your part or cite the evolutionists who won't
admit this.
Indeed, we have been queing up to say we don't know in this thread.
Nobody knows.
They demand that advocates of creation science tell them how God came to
be or proof that God created life on this planet.
If you are making such a claim it is reasonable for someone request
evidence of the claim.
Absolutely, whilst evolution does not require evidence of first life
for us to have evidence it actually occurs, and that their is
evidenced descent from simpler life forms indicating a possible simple
common ancestor, creation depends totally on their being a
supernatural creator god.
Evolution is evidence based whilst creation is based on religious
belief in a god.
Even the Pope, the head of the leading Christian sect accepts
evolution and tells his flock to believe it as dogma! Good catholics
always obey what their Pope tells them to believe of course. They
get chukked out of heaven if they do not toe the line.
However, they have no
real answers for questions like the above question. They also can't
prove that life can evolve from non-life.
Life from non life is pretty much a given. The scientific evidence suggests
that the universe was inhospitable to life during the early epochs. Even if
you are a creationist you would agree that life didn't always exist. The
creationist says that life came about through the intervention of a
supernatural being - according to one story humans were made directly out
of dust. That is curious because dust is mostly silicates and there is very
little silicates in a human being.
Yep we are carbon based and one third water. Thus it is far more
likely we emerged from water not barren desert dry dust. Mind you,
whoever said the Bible had any science in it :-)
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
.
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| User: "655321" |
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| Title: Re: Athiesm is Impossible |
13 Nov 2005 01:42:54 PM |
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On 2005-11-13 11:35:07 -0800, (Jason) said:
They demand that advocates of creation science tell them how God came to
be or proof that God created life on this planet.
Not true. The demand that advocates of "creation science" explain
exactly what is scientific about "creation science."
Not too much of a requirement to enter into a school *science*
curriculum, don't you think?
--
GlennGlenn (655321) -- aa#825 --
"Genocide is used sparingly by God in only extreme circumstances." -Jim Spaza
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Athiesm is Impossible |
14 Nov 2005 10:29:33 AM |
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On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 11:35:07 -0800, (Jason) wrote:
In article <dl804h$ihe$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, "kathryn"
<nospam@here.com> wrote:
"Jason" < > wrote in message
news:jason-1311051005090001@pm4-broad-52.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
In article <bvuen1hr74e3cbh4i6nek4m5r1k0k0npdc@4ax.com>, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 06:29:30 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 13 Nov 2005 04:31:04 GMT, Enkidu the Atheist <enkidu@leaddogs.org>
wrote:
"Greg Flynn" <bunpokeNOSPAM@verizon.net> wrote in
news:Uczdf.6031$5R4.182@trnddc06:
Athiesm posits that the universe wasn't created, therefore, it
assumes
one of two other possiblities.
1. The universe was created from nothing by nothing
2. The universe has always existed.
Atheism posits nothing of the kind. If it posits anything at all, it's
that there has been no complelling evidence that any god or gods exist.
So where did the universe come from?
So where did the creator come from?
Les,
Yu answered a question with a question. I would like to see your answer to
the question:
Where did the universe come from?
Who says atheists have to know? I'm more than happy to admit I don't have a
clue, I leave it to the scientists. However at one point we didn't know
where fire came from either. Not knowing how something came about or how it
works doesn't mean that it must of been created by a higher being, it just
means that we haven't figured it out yet.
Hello,
Thanks for your post. Thanks also for being honest. Most evolutionists
There's no such thing as an 'evolutionist.'
won't admit that they "don't have a clue" how the universe came to be.
Evolution has nothing to do with Cosmology.
They demand that advocates of creation science tell them how God came to
be or proof that God created life on this planet.
Cretin Science isn't. The drivel is *your* assertion and it is your
assertion to support.
Based on your (cough) 'logic.' You borrowed $75,000 USD from me four
months ago. You had sworn on the bible it would be returned to my
bank account no later than 1 November 2005. The funds have not been
returned. You, sir, are a thief and an oathbreaker. The money is
owed unless you can prove it isn't. Sucks for the uneducated like
you.
However, they have no
real answers for questions like the above question. They also can't prove
that life can evolve from non-life.
Thank you for highlighting your terminal ignorance so nicely. Please
come back when you have a basic education.
Jason
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Athiesm is Impossible |
13 Nov 2005 04:32:38 PM |
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On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 11:35:07 -0800, (Jason) wrote:
In article <dl804h$ihe$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, "kathryn"
<nospam@here.com> wrote:
"Jason" < > wrote in message
news:jason-1311051005090001@pm4-broad-52.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
In article <bvuen1hr74e3cbh4i6nek4m5r1k0k0npdc@4ax.com>, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 06:29:30 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 13 Nov 2005 04:31:04 GMT, Enkidu the Atheist <enkidu@leaddogs.org>
wrote:
"Greg Flynn" <bunpokeNOSPAM@verizon.net> wrote in
news:Uczdf.6031$5R4.182@trnddc06:
Athiesm posits that the universe wasn't created, therefore, it
assumes
one of two other possiblities.
1. The universe was created from nothing by nothing
2. The universe has always existed.
Atheism posits nothing of the kind. If it posits anything at all, it's
that there has been no complelling evidence that any god or gods exist.
So where did the universe come from?
So where did the creator come from?
Les,
Yu answered a question with a question. I would like to see your answer to
the question:
Where did the universe come from?
Who says atheists have to know? I'm more than happy to admit I don't have a
clue, I leave it to the scientists. However at one point we didn't know
where fire came from either. Not knowing how something came about or how it
works doesn't mean that it must of been created by a higher being, it just
means that we haven't figured it out yet.
Hello,
Thanks for your post. Thanks also for being honest. Most evolutionists
won't admit that they "don't have a clue" how the universe came to be.
They demand that advocates of creation science tell them how God came to
be or proof that God created life on this planet. However, they have no
real answers for questions like the above question. They also can't prove
that life can evolve from non-life.
No more than you can prove it was created.
The answer to that is also that we do not know. I do not know, you
do not the know. You are the one who refuses to admit by jumping
without a jot of evidence to the irrational belief of a creator god.
You have absolutely no grounds whatsoever for doing that.
I see you are returning to the same thing when it has been made
abundantly clear that evolution stands in its own right based on what
we already know from evidence. It is not the least bit dependant on
how the first life came about and you know it.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
.
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| User: "Liz" |
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| Title: Re: Athiesm is Impossible |
13 Nov 2005 12:51:14 PM |
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On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 18:20:01 +0000 (UTC), "kathryn" <nospam@here.com>
in news message <dl804h$ihe$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>
wrote:
"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-1311051005090001@pm4-broad-52.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
[-----]
Yu answered a question with a question. I would like to see your answer to
the question:
Where did the universe come from?
Who says atheists have to know? I'm more than happy to admit I don't have a
clue, I leave it to the scientists. However at one point we didn't know
where fire came from either. Not knowing how something came about or how it
works doesn't mean that it must of been created by a higher being, it just
means that we haven't figured it out yet.
Fire was once thought to be from the gods, too, as was rain.
Significantly, theists like Pat Robertson still think that hurricanes
and tornadoes are sometimes sent as part of GodŽ's wrath. In the past
several thousand years, humans have learned about combustion and
evaporation and no longer believe that natural phenomena are the sign
of a pissed-off deity. We no longer pray to Tlaloc, nor think that
Prometheus stole fire from supernatural beings. Yet, still some
people are afraid of thunder.
Liz #658 BAAWA
I think that naming your ignorance God and pretending that,
having named it, you have converted ignorance to knowledge
is a sorry approach to the unknown. -- John Popelish
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Athiesm is Impossible |
13 Nov 2005 02:45:47 PM |
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On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 18:20:01 +0000 (UTC), "kathryn" <nospam@here.com> wrote:
Who says atheists have to know? I'm more than happy to admit I don't have a
clue, I leave it to the scientists.
well, so far, they say that first there was nothing there, then suddenly an
infinitely small point of mass of infinite density appear from whence there was
nothing, and it exploded outward some 14.5 billion years ago to from all matter,
energy, and time.
What the universe is expanding into nobody knows. Does it have an edge - no
body knows. Will it collapse back on itself an infinite number of times to yet
re explode an infinite number of times. No. Science now says it is open. It
happened from nothing, and will expand forever.
God did it. Something from nothing. Creation at it's finest. I call the
Creator God for lack of a better name.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Athiesm is Impossible |
13 Nov 2005 01:43:48 PM |
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"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-1311051005090001@pm4-broad-52.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
snip
Where did the universe come from?
Don't know, don't care.
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
.
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| User: "Llanzlan Klazmon" |
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| Title: Re: Athiesm is Impossible |
13 Nov 2005 04:19:21 PM |
|
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(Jason) wrote in
news:jason-1311051005090001@pm4-broad-52.snlo.dialup.fix.net:
In article <bvuen1hr74e3cbh4i6nek4m5r1k0k0npdc@4ax.com>, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 06:29:30 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 13 Nov 2005 04:31:04 GMT, Enkidu the Atheist <enkidu@leaddogs.org>
wrote:
"Greg Flynn" <bunpokeNOSPAM@verizon.net> wrote in
news:Uczdf.6031$5R4.182@trnddc06:
Athiesm posits that the universe wasn't created, therefore, it
assumes one of two other possiblities.
1. The universe was created from nothing by nothing
2. The universe has always existed.
Atheism posits nothing of the kind. If it posits anything at all,
it's that there has been no complelling evidence that any god or gods
exist.
So where did the universe come from?
So where did the creator come from?
Les,
Yu answered a question with a question. I would like to see your answer
to the question:
Where did the universe come from?
I don't know. I don't even know if the question is meaningful. Things in
the universe appear to have causes. There is nothing to indicate that the
universe itself requires a cause.
An answer like I don't know therfore .... is an absurd argument from
ignorance/non sequitur.
Klazmon.
Now there's some compelling evidence I want to see.
Now there's some compelling evidence I want to see
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
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| User: "Liz" |
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| Title: Re: Athiesm is Impossible |
13 Nov 2005 12:35:48 PM |
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On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 10:05:09 -0800, (Jason) in news
message <jason-1311051005090001@pm4-broad-52.snlo.dialup.fix.net>
wrote:
Les,
Yu answered a question with a question. I would like to see your answer to
the question:
Where did the universe come from?
I'm not Les, but I'll answer.
We (humans) don't know although there are very robust scientific
theories that give us strong clues to the answer. Just because we
can't prove what came before the Big Bang (the Big Bang being a
scientific certainty), there is no reason to posit that a being,
whether that being requires worship or not, created the universe.
However, given the knowledge we have today about the infancy of our
current universe, it is more than likely that the universe we know and
love always existed, just not in its current expanded four dimensional
form. The universe existed before the BB in a non-spacial form, the
dimensions being curled up so that the many dimensions of the
precurrentuniverse were less than Planck length where the energy level
of the most stable state of the universe was non-zero. (Energy
doesn't take up any space.) The symmetry of the stable state was
broken by an energy fluctuation and several of the dimensions inflated
.. . . rapidly. After the dimensions expanded sufficiently to become
cool (less energetic) enough, quarks, then protons, then atoms, then
molecules coalesced out of the energy. And after a while, here we
are.
We do know that the universe exists. We do know that the universe has
been expanding from a much smaller state for +/- 13 billion years.
We do know that E = mc2. We do know much of the physics of subatomic
particles.
We have no objective evidence that GodŽ exists, or that this supposed
GodŽ had anything to do with the creation of anything, let alone the
universe. Now theists want to say this GodŽ kind of "poofed" the
universe into being from nothing. I think that is rather silly to
posit an unknown, unevidenced supernatural cause for something that
can be reasonably explained without resorting to such inanity.
Liz #658 BAAWA
Many...freely confess that they believe what it makes them
feel good to believe. Evidence doesn't play much of a role.
They are alleviating their fear of randomness by identifying
regularities that are not there. - Murray Gell-Mann
.
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| User: "Jason" |
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| Title: Re: Athiesm is Impossible |
13 Nov 2005 01:27:57 PM |
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In article <p30fn11in9uhcjeajtuc92266gsi4vsrnm@4ax.com>, Liz
<ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 10:05:09 -0800, (Jason) in news
message <jason-1311051005090001@pm4-broad-52.snlo.dialup.fix.net>
wrote:
Les,
Yu answered a question with a question. I would like to see your answer to
the question:
Where did the universe come from?
I'm not Les, but I'll answer.
We (humans) don't know although there are very robust scientific
theories that give us strong clues to the answer. Just because we
can't prove what came before the Big Bang (the Big Bang being a
scientific certainty), there is no reason to posit that a being,
whether that being requires worship or not, created the universe.
However, given the knowledge we have today about the infancy of our
current universe, it is more than likely that the universe we know and
love always existed, just not in its current expanded four dimensional
form. The universe existed before the BB in a non-spacial form, the
dimensions being curled up so that the many dimensions of the
precurrentuniverse were less than Planck length where the energy level
of the most stable state of the universe was non-zero. (Energy
doesn't take up any space.) The symmetry of the stable state was
broken by an energy fluctuation and several of the dimensions inflated
. . . rapidly. After the dimensions expanded sufficiently to become
cool (less energetic) enough, quarks, then protons, then atoms, then
molecules coalesced out of the energy. And after a while, here we
are.
We do know that the universe exists. We do know that the universe has
been expanding from a much smaller state for +/- 13 billion years.
We do know that E = mc2. We do know much of the physics of subatomic
particles.
We have no objective evidence that GodŽ exists, or that this supposed
GodŽ had anything to do with the creation of anything, let alone the
universe. Now theists want to say this GodŽ kind of "poofed" the
universe into being from nothing. I think that is rather silly to
posit an unknown, unevidenced supernatural cause for something that
can be reasonably explained without resorting to such inanity.
Liz #658 BAAWA
Many...freely confess that they believe what it makes them
feel good to believe. Evidence doesn't play much of a role.
They are alleviating their fear of randomness by identifying
regularities that are not there. - Murray Gell-Mann
Liz,
Thanks for your post. You are very intelligent.
Jason
--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Athiesm is Impossible |
13 Nov 2005 02:49:41 PM |
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On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 18:35:48 GMT, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 10:05:09 -0800, (Jason) in news
message <jason-1311051005090001@pm4-broad-52.snlo.dialup.fix.net>
wrote:
Les,
Yu answered a question with a question. I would like to see your answer to
the question:
Where did the universe come from?
I'm not Les, but I'll answer.
We (humans) don't know although there are very robust scientific
theories that give us strong clues to the answer. Just because we
can't prove what came before the Big Bang (the Big Bang being a
scientific certainty), there is no reason to posit that a being,
whether that being requires worship or not, created the universe.
However, given the knowledge we have today about the infancy of our
current universe, it is more than likely that the universe we know and
love always existed
How so? Nothing has no beginning.
just not in its current expanded four dimensional
form. The universe existed before the BB in a non-spacial form, the
dimensions being curled up so that the many dimensions of the
precurrentuniverse were less than Planck length where the energy level
of the most stable state of the universe was non-zero.
(Energy doesn't take up any space.)
Where did this energy come from if not from God?
The symmetry of the stable state was
broken by an energy fluctuation and several of the dimensions inflated
. . . rapidly. After the dimensions expanded sufficiently to become
cool (less energetic) enough, quarks, then protons, then atoms, then
molecules coalesced out of the energy. And after a while, here we
are.
We do know that the universe exists. We do know that the universe has
been expanding from a much smaller state for +/- 13 billion years.
We do know that E = mc2. We do know much of the physics of subatomic
particles.
Ok so far.
We have no objective evidence that GodŽ exists, or that this supposed
GodŽ had anything to do with the creation of anything, let alone the
universe. Now theists want to say this GodŽ kind of "poofed" the
universe into being from nothing.
It's at least as good as saying that energy existed forever, and not worry where
it came from.
I think that is rather silly to
posit an unknown, unevidenced supernatural cause for something that
can be reasonably explained without resorting to such inanity.
An unknown like energy always existed?????
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "Liz" |
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| Title: Re: Athiesm is Impossible |
13 Nov 2005 03:35:24 PM |
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On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 14:49:41 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> in news
message <kg9fn11gbant2j5bhcvfagde3r52p1tb2e@4ax.com> wrote:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 18:35:48 GMT, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 10:05:09 -0800, (Jason) in news
message <jason-1311051005090001@pm4-broad-52.snlo.dialup.fix.net>
wrote:
Les,
Yu answered a question with a question. I would like to see your answer to
the question:
Where did the universe come from?
I'm not Les, but I'll answer.
We (humans) don't know although there are very robust scientific
theories that give us strong clues to the answer. Just because we
can't prove what came before the Big Bang (the Big Bang being a
scientific certainty), there is no reason to posit that a being,
whether that being requires worship or not, created the universe.
However, given the knowledge we have today about the infancy of our
current universe, it is more than likely that the universe we know and
love always existed
How so?
In a very stable preinflated state.
Nothing has no beginning.
Really? Then when and how did you God begin?
just not in its current expanded four dimensional
form. The universe existed before the BB in a non-spacial form, the
dimensions being curled up so that the many dimensions of the
precurrentuniverse were less than Planck length where the energy level
of the most stable state of the universe was non-zero.
(Energy doesn't take up any space.)
Where did this energy come from if not from God?
Energy doesn't come from GodŽ now, why should we posit that it came
from GodŽ at one time. Most of the energy on the Earth comes from the
Sun where fusion reactions take place. The piddling amount of energy,
in comparison, that man produces comes mostly from combustion. The
amount of detected energy we can directly attribute to GodŽ is zero.
The symmetry of the stable state was
broken by an energy fluctuation and several of the dimensions inflated
. . . rapidly. After the dimensions expanded sufficiently to become
cool (less energetic) enough, quarks, then protons, then atoms, then
molecules coalesced out of the energy. And after a while, here we
are.
We do know that the universe exists. We do know that the universe has
been expanding from a much smaller state for +/- 13 billion years.
We do know that E = mc2. We do know much of the physics of subatomic
particles.
Ok so far.
I'm so glad that you agree that the universe exists and that energy
can be converted to matter and vice versa. I can't tell you how
relieved I am.
We have no objective evidence that GodŽ exists, or that this supposed
GodŽ had anything to do with the creation of anything, let alone the
universe. Now theists want to say this GodŽ kind of "poofed" the
universe into being from nothing.
It's at least as good as saying that energy existed forever, and not worry where
it came from.
Well, not really. That's as good as saying that the leprechauns left
the pot o' gold at the end of the rainbow. You can say anything you
want, but without evidence to support your claims, there is no reason
why anyone should believe you.
I can support the universe and energy existing, and you have already
stipulated that they do exist. The problem of support for existence
is and always has been for GodŽ.
One of the fundamental observations of physics is that energy can
neither be created or destroyed. It only changes form. This means
that the energy must have existed before the inflationary stage of our
universe.
I think that is rather silly to
posit an unknown, unevidenced supernatural cause for something that
can be reasonably explained without resorting to such inanity.
An unknown like energy always existed?????
Don't be silly. Energy isn't unknown. We all know that energy
exists.
Now if you want to claim that GodŽ preexisted the universe, you might
start with showing evidence that GodŽ exists now. Use as many
electrons as you see fit.
Liz #658 BAAWA
I think that naming your ignorance God and pretending that,
having named it, you have converted ignorance to knowledge
is a sorry approach to the unknown. -- John Popelish
.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
|
| Title: Re: Athiesm is Impossible |
13 Nov 2005 04:47:41 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 14:49:41 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 18:35:48 GMT, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 10:05:09 -0800, (Jason) in news
message <jason-1311051005090001@pm4-broad-52.snlo.dialup.fix.net>
wrote:
Les,
Yu answered a question with a question. I would like to see your answer to
the question:
Where did the universe come from?
I'm not Les, but I'll answer.
We (humans) don't know although there are very robust scientific
theories that give us strong clues to the answer. Just because we
can't prove what came before the Big Bang (the Big Bang being a
scientific certainty), there is no reason to posit that a being,
whether that being requires worship or not, created the universe.
However, given the knowledge we have today about the infancy of our
current universe, it is more than likely that the universe we know and
love always existed
How so? Nothing has no beginning.
So if this god exists, that you claim , it also must have has a
beginning if your assertion is correct.
just not in its current expanded four dimensional
form. The universe existed before the BB in a non-spacial form, the
dimensions being curled up so that the many dimensions of the
precurrentuniverse were less than Planck length where the energy level
of the most stable state of the universe was non-zero.
(Energy doesn't take up any space.)
Where did this energy come from if not from God?
Have you stopped stealing from supermarkets Duke?
The symmetry of the stable state was
broken by an energy fluctuation and several of th | | | | | |
