| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Steve Wellsly" |
| Date: |
26 Apr 2004 05:46:10 AM |
| Object: |
Attention all Jews - map? |
Anybody have a map (url) of the God-given Biblical Land of Israel?
(not the current country of Israel, but the Land of Israel)
I want to know how much land the Jews intend to take from the non-Jews.
--
- before 1890 - there was peace in the land
- 1890 - Jews claim the land belongs to them and begin moving in
- ever since - no peace, just constant hatred and death
Israel is a filthy disgrace to Judaism. Enough!
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| User: "Yechidah" |
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| Title: Re: Attention all Jews - map? |
26 Apr 2004 10:53:29 AM |
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"Steve Wellsly" <swbogus@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:108ppsn29ercf04@corp.supernews.com...
Anybody have a map (url) of the God-given Biblical Land of Israel?
(not the current country of Israel, but the Land of Israel)
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/israel_hist_1973.jpg
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| User: "Steve Wellsly" |
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| Title: Re: Attention all Jews - map? |
26 Apr 2004 06:57:02 PM |
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Yechidah wrote:
"Steve Wellsly" <swbogus@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:108ppsn29ercf04@corp.supernews.com...
Anybody have a map (url) of the God-given Biblical Land of Israel?
(not the current country of Israel, but the Land of Israel)
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/israel_hist_1973.jpg
Thank you, Yechidah.
--
- before 1890 - there was peace in the land
- 1890 - Jews claim the land belongs to them and begin moving in
- ever since - no peace, just constant hatred and death
Israel is a filthy disgrace to Judaism. Enough!
.
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| User: "Yechidah" |
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| Title: Re: Attention all Jews - map? |
26 Apr 2004 10:20:40 PM |
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You're welcome. Just don't be coming here and dissing the Jewish people.
YS
"Steve Wellsly" <swbogus@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:108r87i8kua1sf6@corp.supernews.com...
Yechidah wrote:
"Steve Wellsly" <swbogus@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:108ppsn29ercf04@corp.supernews.com...
Anybody have a map (url) of the God-given Biblical Land of Israel?
(not the current country of Israel, but the Land of Israel)
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/israel_hist_1973.jpg
Thank you, Yechidah.
--
- before 1890 - there was peace in the land
- 1890 - Jews claim the land belongs to them and begin moving in
- ever since - no peace, just constant hatred and death
Israel is a filthy disgrace to Judaism. Enough!
.
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| User: "Steve Wellsly" |
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| Title: Re: Attention all Jews - map? |
28 Apr 2004 01:24:26 AM |
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Yechidah wrote:
You're welcome. Just don't be coming here and dissing the Jewish people.
I'm dissing the murdering Jewish bastards that support Israel. Are you one
of them?
--
- before 1890 - there was peace in the land
- 1890 - Jews claim the land belongs to them and begin moving in
- ever since - no peace, just constant hatred and death
Israel is a filthy disgrace to Judaism. Enough!
.
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| User: "Pat Harrington" |
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| Title: Re: Attention all Jews - map? |
28 Apr 2004 06:05:42 AM |
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Steve Wellsly <swbogus@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<108uj9tt2bf6n75@corp.supernews.com>...
Yechidah wrote:
You're welcome. Just don't be coming here and dissing the Jewish people.
I'm dissing the murdering Jewish bastards that support Israel. Are you one
of them?
A bit trigger happy, now, aren't we Steve? If your definition of
"*****" means male then this woman is definitely not!
.
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| User: "Mike H." |
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| Title: Re: Attention all Jews - map? |
28 Apr 2004 12:02:26 PM |
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Steve Wellsly <swbogus@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<108uj9tt2bf6n75@corp.supernews.com>...
Yechidah wrote:
You're welcome. Just don't be coming here and dissing the Jewish people.
I'm dissing the murdering Jewish bastards that support Israel. Are you one
of them?
I am, that ok with you?
I support the only semblance of Democracy in that part of the world
because I'm an American and what's good for Israel is good for the USA
and vice-versa.
I also recognise that you care nothing for Muslims or Islam or arabs
in general and that your feigned indignation over the "murder" of
Muslims is a canard.
You wish death to the Jews. And if you ever able to make their
genocide a reality, you would then concentrate on the Arabs, whom you
refer to as "sand-niggers", blacks, asians, Indians, and the list goes
on and on and on.
You're not fooling anyone bud. It must suck to be a bigot - with, in
your world view, the blacks below you and the Jews above you. You
hate Jews because you think they view you in the same way you view
blacks. And bigoted blacks hate both White Xtians and Jews with equal
fervor.
Isn't bigotry (or was that buggery?) interesting?
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| User: "z" |
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| Title: Re: Attention all Jews - map? |
28 Apr 2004 10:29:15 AM |
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"Yechidah" <TheHealingShelf@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<Zfajc.13401$e4.10860@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
"Steve Wellsly" <swbogus@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:108ppsn29ercf04@corp.supernews.com...
Anybody have a map (url) of the God-given Biblical Land of Israel?
(not the current country of Israel, but the Land of Israel)
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/israel_hist_1973.jpg
That map still shows the Sinai as part of Israel?
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Attention all Jews - map? |
26 Apr 2004 11:35:21 AM |
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Yechidah <TheHealingShelf@hotmail.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Steve Wellsly <swbogus@nospam.com> wrote in message
Anybody have a map (url) of the God-given Biblical Land of Israel?
(not the current country of Israel, but the Land of Israel)
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/israel_hist_1973.jpg
Notice that there's not a single designation of "Israel" in the first
three maps on the above link...
And in the next three, "Israel" is nothing more than some title
given to the map itself.
Israel is nothing more than a "phantom country" according to some
of the descriptions I've read about it.
Isis + Ra + El = Israel.
Too simple an explanation or coincidence of etymology to explain
the name?
I don't think so.
The Egyptians, from whence the Hebrews supposedly came in the
pretended Exodus story, were both Isis and Ra worshippers.
The Canaanites were El worshippers, as well as being Ashtoreth
and Ishtar worshippers, and Queen of Heaven worshippers, and there
are plenty of Bible verses to support that fact, as well as plenty of
archaeological evidence as well...
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Attention all Jews - map? |
26 Apr 2004 01:37:47 PM |
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Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Yechidah <TheHealingShelf@hotmail.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Steve Wellsly <swbogus@nospam.com> wrote in message
Anybody have a map (url) of the God-given Biblical Land of Israel?
(not the current country of Israel, but the Land of Israel)
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/israel_hist_1973.jpg
Notice that there's not a single designation of "Israel" in the first
three maps on the above link...
And in the next three, "Israel" is nothing more than some title
given to the map itself.
Israel is nothing more than a "phantom country" according to some
of the descriptions I've read about it.
Isis + Ra + El = Israel.
Too simple an explanation or coincidence of etymology to explain
the name?
I don't think so.
The Egyptians, from whence the Hebrews supposedly came in the
pretended Exodus story, were both Isis and Ra worshippers.
The Canaanites were El worshippers, as well as being Ashtoreth
and Ishtar worshippers, and Queen of Heaven worshippers, and there
are plenty of Bible verses to support that fact, as well as plenty of
archaeological evidence as well...
The above is more the truth than the below, which is what the
Jewish and Christian fundamentalists apparently want people to
believe:
Genesis 32:22-28
"That night Jacob got up and took his two wives, his two maidservants
and his eleven sons and crossed the ford of the Jabbok. After he had
sent them across the stream, he sent over all his possessions. So
Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak. When
the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of
Jacob's hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man.
Then the man said, "Let me go, for it is daybreak." But Jacob replied,
"I will not let you go unless you bless me." The man asked him, "What
is your name?" Jacob," he answered. Then the man said, "Your name
will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with
God and with men and have overcome."
So, according to the above, or to the fundamentalist belief system,
one day, a polygamist named Jacob suddenly becomes named "Israel"
just like that, because of the whim of some writer who was supposedly
penning down the words of some supposed creator of the entire
universe?
Add to that, it's supposedly the reason Jews don't eat the tendon
attached to the hip bone of cattle. Not because it's tough and most
people don't like it, but because a man named Jacob wrestled with
some other man or being who some people think was "YHWH" himself.
Or was it "El" that he was wrestling with? Or maybe Isis or Ishtar?
How can anybody actually believe this version of the story unless
they're completely brainwashed by Egyptian and Jewish and Christian
mythology?
Genesis 32:31
"The sun rose above him as he passed Peniel, and he was limping
because of his hip."
Aww, poor guy... He was limping because he wrestled with some
make-believe god who touched him on the hip while they were wrestling
one day...
Perhaps the god or "man" was telling Jacob to make up a new name
based on currently existing gods like Isis, Ra, and El? Nah, couldn't
be...
Nevermind also that "Peniel" can quite easily be rendered to
"Peni" + "El" and further to the "Penis of El" and finally into
Ob+El+Isks, which were phallic symbols of El's penis reaching
up to the heavens to impregnate Isis, or Venus, as she was later
called by the Romans.
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Attention all Jews - map? |
26 Apr 2004 09:35:40 AM |
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Steve Wellsly <swbogus@nospam.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Anybody have a map (url) of the God-given Biblical Land of Israel?
(not the current country of Israel, but the Land of Israel)
I want to know how much land the Jews intend to take from the non-Jews.
While looking at some ancient maps, I ran across the following
article:
From:
http://www.livius.org/he-hg/herodians/herod_antipas.html
"Herod Antipas -a nickname derived from Antipatros- was the son of
the Jewish king Herod the Great and his wife Malthace; he was full
brother of Archelaus and a half brother of Philip. With his brothers
Archelaus and Philip, he was educated in Rome, a kind of honorable
detention to guarantee his father's loyalty. In his father's
testament, Herod Antipas was appointed tetrarch of Galilee and Peraea
(the east bank of the Jordan). The Roman emperor Augustus confirmed
this decision and Antipas' reign could begin (4 BCE)."
Peraea seems to refer to the city of Petra, which was carved out of
the rock cliffs and hills in the area.
See:
http://almashriq.hiof.no/jordan/900/930/petra/jda/petra.html
"PETRA - A BRIEF HISTORY
The classical name Petra, and the early name Sela both mean the same
thing, " Rock "; and surely no city was ever more aptly named. But "
Rock " only conveys half the picture of the city: the wild, fantastic
shapes of the hills, the great chasms which cleave them, the brilliant
colouring--all these must be seen to be be]ieved. Petra is unique
alike in its antiquities, its natural setting, and its approach."
[...]
"Stories of the great wealth of Petra soon caused the Romans to cast
covetous eyes in that direction. Two or three attempts to capture the
city failed completely, though the Nabataeans as a nation were made to
pay tribute. But with all its inaccessibility, it could not hold out
against the might of Rome, and in A.D. 106 Petra with all its
territory became a Roman Province. The Emperor Trajan built a great
road. which passed through Petra, connecting Syria with the Red Sea.
Undel Roman rule Petra prospered greatly, and some of the finest
monuments date from this period. The one surviving built structure,
the Temple, was erected under Roman supervision. More and more wealth
was lavished on the city, foreign craftsmen were brought in to
embellish and beautiful it, and it became one of the wonders of the
world."
From:
http://www.bible-history.com/Herod_Antipas/ANTIPASInternational_Standard_Bible_Enc.htm
"Herod Antipas was the son of Herod the Great and Malthace, a
Samaritan woman. Half Idumean, half Samaritan, he had therefore not a
drop of Jewish blood in his veins, and "Galilee of the Gentiles"
seemed a fit dominion for such a prince. He ruled as "tetrarch" of
Galilee and Peraea (Luke 3:1) from 4 BC till 39 AD. The gospel picture
we have of him is far from prepossessing. He is superstitious (Matthew
14:1), foxlike in his cunning (Luke 13:31) and wholly immoral. John
the Baptist was brought into his life through an open rebuke of his
gross immorality and defiance of the laws of Moses (Leviticus 18:16),
and paid for his courage with his life (Matthew 14:10; Ant, XVIII, v,
2)."
The above information gives new meaning to "Upon this rock I will
build my church," if you care to connect the dots...
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
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| User: "Rick" |
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| Title: Re: Attention all Jews - map? |
27 Apr 2004 10:41:25 AM |
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Ancient (biblical) Israel's southern border was its current border with
Egypt (including Gaza) the coastal boarder extended to just north of Mt
Carmel, (approximately 1km, roughly 3 quaters of a mile north), from there,
10km or 7.5 miles (approx) inland to the city of Kadesh (a north western
borderline) and included the east bank of the Jordan, then approximately
120km (or 60 miles) south east, amd then continuing SSW down to the Gulf of
Aqaba.
"Elroy Willis" <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:vv5q8096ailq5s6pb4k4j11ea1k403bf6h@4ax.com...
Steve Wellsly <swbogus@nospam.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Anybody have a map (url) of the God-given Biblical Land of Israel?
(not the current country of Israel, but the Land of Israel)
I want to know how much land the Jews intend to take from the non-Jews.
While looking at some ancient maps, I ran across the following
article:
From:
http://www.livius.org/he-hg/herodians/herod_antipas.html
"Herod Antipas -a nickname derived from Antipatros- was the son of
the Jewish king Herod the Great and his wife Malthace; he was full
brother of Archelaus and a half brother of Philip. With his brothers
Archelaus and Philip, he was educated in Rome, a kind of honorable
detention to guarantee his father's loyalty. In his father's
testament, Herod Antipas was appointed tetrarch of Galilee and Peraea
(the east bank of the Jordan). The Roman emperor Augustus confirmed
this decision and Antipas' reign could begin (4 BCE)."
Peraea seems to refer to the city of Petra, which was carved out of
the rock cliffs and hills in the area.
See:
http://almashriq.hiof.no/jordan/900/930/petra/jda/petra.html
"PETRA - A BRIEF HISTORY
The classical name Petra, and the early name Sela both mean the same
thing, " Rock "; and surely no city was ever more aptly named. But "
Rock " only conveys half the picture of the city: the wild, fantastic
shapes of the hills, the great chasms which cleave them, the brilliant
colouring--all these must be seen to be be]ieved. Petra is unique
alike in its antiquities, its natural setting, and its approach."
[...]
"Stories of the great wealth of Petra soon caused the Romans to cast
covetous eyes in that direction. Two or three attempts to capture the
city failed completely, though the Nabataeans as a nation were made to
pay tribute. But with all its inaccessibility, it could not hold out
against the might of Rome, and in A.D. 106 Petra with all its
territory became a Roman Province. The Emperor Trajan built a great
road. which passed through Petra, connecting Syria with the Red Sea.
Undel Roman rule Petra prospered greatly, and some of the finest
monuments date from this period. The one surviving built structure,
the Temple, was erected under Roman supervision. More and more wealth
was lavished on the city, foreign craftsmen were brought in to
embellish and beautiful it, and it became one of the wonders of the
world."
From:
http://www.bible-history.com/Herod_Antipas/ANTIPASInternational_Standard_Bible_Enc.htm
"Herod Antipas was the son of Herod the Great and Malthace, a
Samaritan woman. Half Idumean, half Samaritan, he had therefore not a
drop of Jewish blood in his veins, and "Galilee of the Gentiles"
seemed a fit dominion for such a prince. He ruled as "tetrarch" of
Galilee and Peraea (Luke 3:1) from 4 BC till 39 AD. The gospel picture
we have of him is far from prepossessing. He is superstitious (Matthew
14:1), foxlike in his cunning (Luke 13:31) and wholly immoral. John
the Baptist was brought into his life through an open rebuke of his
gross immorality and defiance of the laws of Moses (Leviticus 18:16),
and paid for his courage with his life (Matthew 14:10; Ant, XVIII, v,
2)."
The above information gives new meaning to "Upon this rock I will
build my church," if you care to connect the dots...
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
.
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| User: "redclay" |
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| Title: Re: Attention all Jews - map? |
26 Apr 2004 01:01:54 PM |
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Steve Wellsly <swbogus@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:108ppsn29ercf04@corp.supernews.com...
Anybody have a map (url) of the God-given Biblical Land of Israel?
(not the current country of Israel, but the Land of Israel)
I want to know how much land the Jews intend to take from the non-Jews.
- before 1890 - there was peace in the land
- 1890 - Jews claim the land belongs to them and begin moving in
- ever since - no peace, just constant hatred and death
Israel is a filthy disgrace to Judaism. Enough!
Actually the invasion of the land once known as Palestine by the Jews
started in 1882 under the guise of agricultural communes. Search holy land
+map. Apparently Abraham could see the back of his head if you listen to
the Jews currently occupying the land they call Israel.
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| User: "YOELK" |
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| Title: Re: Attention all Jews - map? |
27 Apr 2004 07:45:11 PM |
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"redclay" <reddclay13@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<m8cjc.24679$_o3.809737@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...
Steve Wellsly <swbogus@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:108ppsn29ercf04@corp.supernews.com...
Anybody have a map (url) of the God-given Biblical Land of Israel?
(not the current country of Israel, but the Land of Israel)
I want to know how much land the Jews intend to take from the non-Jews.
- before 1890 - there was peace in the land
- 1890 - Jews claim the land belongs to them and begin moving in
- ever since - no peace, just constant hatred and death
Israel is a filthy disgrace to Judaism. Enough!
Actually the invasion of the land once known as Palestine by the Jews
started in 1882 under the guise of agricultural communes. Search holy land
+map. Apparently Abraham could see the back of his head if you listen to
the Jews currently occupying the land they call Israel.
Oh, thouse naughty Jews, how dare they establish argicultural
communities on Palestine in 1882 ...
Naughty , naughty , naughty!
And why did the Turks who controlled the whole region
at that time let them do such an attrocity,
I wouldn't understand. Must have been corruption!
-----
YOELK
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Attention all Jews - map? |
27 Apr 2004 08:44:26 PM |
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On 27 Apr 2004 17:45:11 -0700, (YOELK) wrote:
"redclay" <reddclay13@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<m8cjc.24679$_o3.809737@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...
Steve Wellsly <swbogus@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:108ppsn29ercf04@corp.supernews.com...
Anybody have a map (url) of the God-given Biblical Land of Israel?
(not the current country of Israel, but the Land of Israel)
I want to know how much land the Jews intend to take from the non-Jews.
- before 1890 - there was peace in the land
- 1890 - Jews claim the land belongs to them and begin moving in
- ever since - no peace, just constant hatred and death
Israel is a filthy disgrace to Judaism. Enough!
Actually the invasion of the land once known as Palestine by the Jews
started in 1882 under the guise of agricultural communes. Search holy land
+map. Apparently Abraham could see the back of his head if you listen to
the Jews currently occupying the land they call Israel.
Oh, thouse naughty Jews, how dare they establish argicultural
communities on Palestine in 1882 ...
Naughty , naughty , naughty!
Does this mean that because I (an Englishman) owns 1.25 acres in New
York that becomes British rterritory?
And why did the Turks who controlled the whole region
at that time let them do such an attrocity,
I wouldn't understand. Must have been corruption!
Apparently ot does.
YOELK
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Attention all Jews - map? |
27 Apr 2004 09:34:23 PM |
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"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:em2u80t8go6vqhoaa1461eui7qkl50ns4v@4ax.com...
On 27 Apr 2004 17:45:11 -0700, (YOELK) wrote:
Does this mean that because I (an Englishman) owns 1.25 acres in New
York that becomes British rterritory?
And why did the Turks who controlled the whole region
at that time let them do such an attrocity,
I wouldn't understand. Must have been corruption!
Apparently ot does.
No. You would have to be somebody who adapted a *religion* that was in the
area at the time before you can claim it. You might or might not have
distant relatives that belonged to a tribe that lived in the area 2000 or so
years ago. But Judaism is a religion, not an ethnic group.
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| User: "YOELK" |
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| Title: Re: Attention all Jews - map? |
28 Apr 2004 10:48:02 AM |
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Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message news:<em2u80t8go6vqhoaa1461eui7qkl50ns4v@4ax.com>...
On 27 Apr 2004 17:45:11 -0700, (YOELK) wrote:
"redclay" <reddclay13@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<m8cjc.24679$_o3.809737@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...
Steve Wellsly <swbogus@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:108ppsn29ercf04@corp.supernews.com...
Anybody have a map (url) of the God-given Biblical Land of Israel?
(not the current country of Israel, but the Land of Israel)
I want to know how much land the Jews intend to take from the non-Jews.
- before 1890 - there was peace in the land
- 1890 - Jews claim the land belongs to them and begin moving in
- ever since - no peace, just constant hatred and death
Israel is a filthy disgrace to Judaism. Enough!
Actually the invasion of the land once known as Palestine by the Jews
started in 1882 under the guise of agricultural communes. Search holy land
+map. Apparently Abraham could see the back of his head if you listen to
the Jews currently occupying the land they call Israel.
Oh, thouse naughty Jews, how dare they establish argicultural
communities on Palestine in 1882 ...
Naughty , naughty , naughty!
Does this mean that because I (an Englishman) owns 1.25 acres in New
York that becomes British rterritory?
It was British at 1752, or am I mistaken?
And why did the Turks who controlled the whole region
at that time let them do such an attrocity,
I wouldn't understand. Must have been corruption!
Apparently ot does.
YOELK
Another question tah I'd like to ask is
why some would consider it a Palestinian territory,
when we are talking about the time when Ottmans ruled the land.
-----
YOELK
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Attention all Jews - map? |
28 Apr 2004 11:47:41 AM |
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"YOELK" <> wrote in message
news:28891102.0404280748.2f15fa64@posting.google.com...
Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:<em2u80t8go6vqhoaa1461eui7qkl50ns4v@4ax.com>...
On 27 Apr 2004 17:45:11 -0700, (YOELK) wrote:
Oh, thouse naughty Jews, how dare they establish argicultural
communities on Palestine in 1882 ...
Naughty , naughty , naughty!
Does this mean that because I (an Englishman) owns 1.25 acres in New
York that becomes British rterritory?
It was British at 1752, or am I mistaken?
If the British hadn't had their butts kicked out of America, America would
still be British.
And no one is claiming that Israel belongs to Israel because of those
agricultural communities - unless it was the lying Jew-hater who first
complained about the communities being an invasion of "Palestine"!!
The entire "analogy" amounts to little more than a very poor strawman.
Susan
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| User: "the neutral" |
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| Title: Re: Attention all Jews - map? |
28 Apr 2004 08:40:46 PM |
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"Susan Cohen" <flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message news:<NeRjc.49688$G_.48966@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>...
"YOELK" < > wrote in message
news:28891102.0404280748.2f15fa64@posting.google.com...
Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:<em2u80t8go6vqhoaa1461eui7qkl50ns4v@4ax.com>...
On 27 Apr 2004 17:45:11 -0700, (YOELK) wrote:
Oh, thouse naughty Jews, how dare they establish argicultural
communities on Palestine in 1882 ...
Naughty , naughty , naughty!
Does this mean that because I (an Englishman) owns 1.25 acres in New
York that becomes British rterritory?
It was British at 1752, or am I mistaken?
If the British hadn't had their butts kicked out of America, America would
still be British.
And no one is claiming that Israel belongs to Israel because of those
agricultural communities - unless it was the lying Jew-hater who first
complained about the communities being an invasion of "Palestine"!!
The entire "analogy" amounts to little more than a very poor strawman.
Susan
Egypt and Jordan. They could have created a second
Palestinian State anytime they wanted to between 1948 and 1967. They
chose not to. When they made peace with Israel they both gave the land
to Israel. The Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty doesn't mention a second
Pallie state, but sets the border between the two countries as the
Jordan River. Do you know where that is?
Finally, Syria.they came close to peace a few years ago and were
willing to take back less than all of the Golan Heights. They balked
at not having access to the Kinneret, but they set a precedent for
saying they didn't want all the land back.
They've accepted Israel's acquisition of land through defensive war.
The only question is "how much land."
so why was there never a pallies state? in fact, why was there never
an islamic state with jerusalem as its capital?
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Attention all Jews - map? |
28 Apr 2004 11:45:42 AM |
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"YOELK" <jkrup@shani.net> wrote in message
news:28891102.0404280748.2f15fa64@posting.google.com...
Another question that I'd like to ask is
why some would consider it a Palestinian territory,
when we are talking about the time when Ottmans ruled the land.
I want someone to point out a time when the "Palestinians" ruled the land.
Ever.
Susan
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| User: "Pat Harrington" |
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| Title: Re: Attention all Jews - map? |
28 Apr 2004 07:00:49 PM |
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"Susan Cohen" <flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message news:<WcRjc.49686$G_.38361@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>...
"YOELK" <jkrup@shani.net> wrote in message
news:28891102.0404280748.2f15fa64@posting.google.com...
Another question that I'd like to ask is
why some would consider it a Palestinian territory,
when we are talking about the time when Ottmans ruled the land.
I want someone to point out a time when the "Palestinians" ruled the land.
Ever.
Susan
I think you'd have to go back to the days of Samson to find when
the Palestinians/Philistines/Plishtim actually owned some land. Back
in the good ol' days of Dagon worshipping. Now those WERE the days.
I understand their women used to work sheer(shear) magic on men.
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Attention all Jews - map? |
29 Apr 2004 12:17:26 PM |
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"Pat Harrington" <PatrickDHarrington@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7517a083.0404281600.61363295@posting.google.com...
"Susan Cohen" <flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:<WcRjc.49686$G_.38361@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>...
"YOELK" <jkrup@shani.net> wrote in message
news:28891102.0404280748.2f15fa64@posting.google.com...
Another question that I'd like to ask is
why some would consider it a Palestinian territory,
when we are talking about the time when Ottmans ruled the land.
I want someone to point out a time when the "Palestinians" ruled the
land.
Ever.
Susan
I think you'd have to go back to the days of Samson to find when
the Palestinians/Philistines/Plishtim actually owned some land.
Ah, but the modern-day o-called Palesitnians aren't related to them.
& they'd be smart not to claim it, too :-)
Susan
Back
in the good ol' days of Dagon worshipping. Now those WERE the days.
I understand their women used to work sheer(shear) magic on men.
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| User: "YOELK" |
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| Title: Re: Attention all Jews - map? |
28 Apr 2004 11:08:32 PM |
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"Susan Cohen" <flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message news:<WcRjc.49686$G_.38361@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>...
"YOELK" <jkrup@shani.net> wrote in message
news:28891102.0404280748.2f15fa64@posting.google.com...
Another question that I'd like to ask is
why some would consider it a Palestinian territory,
when we are talking about the time when Ottmans ruled the land.
I want someone to point out a time when the "Palestinians" ruled the land.
Ever.
Susan
Susan,
Please replace "Palestinians" By "Arabs" and you got it.
A Palestinian is an arab from Palestine, just like a Parisian
is a Frenchman from Paris.
------
YOELK
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Attention all Jews - map? |
29 Apr 2004 12:26:23 PM |
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"YOELK" <jkrup@shani.net> wrote in message
news:28891102.0404282008.7169c872@posting.google.com...
"Susan Cohen" <flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:<WcRjc.49686$G_.38361@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>...
"YOELK" <jkrup@shani.net> wrote in message
news:28891102.0404280748.2f15fa64@posting.google.com...
Another question that I'd like to ask is
why some would consider it a Palestinian territory,
when we are talking about the time when Ottmans ruled the land.
I want someone to point out a time when the "Palestinians" ruled the
land.
Ever.
Susan
Susan,
Please replace "Palestinians" By "Arabs" and you got it.
A Palestinian is an arab from Palestine, just like a Parisian
is a Frenchman from Paris.
Then that makes even fewer Palestinains than they claim....
Susan
------
YOELK
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| User: "YOELK" |
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| Title: Re: Attention all Jews - map? |
30 Apr 2004 03:48:40 AM |
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"Susan Cohen" <flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message news:<3Vakc.2189$sK3.2110@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>...
"YOELK" <jkrup@shani.net> wrote in message
news:28891102.0404282008.7169c872@posting.google.com...
"Susan Cohen" <flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:<WcRjc.49686$G_.38361@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>...
"YOELK" <jkrup@shani.net> wrote in message
news:28891102.0404280748.2f15fa64@posting.google.com...
Another question that I'd like to ask is
why some would consider it a Palestinian territory,
when we are talking about the time when Ottmans ruled the land.
I want someone to point out a time when the "Palestinians" ruled the
land.
Ever.
Susan
Susan,
Please replace "Palestinians" By "Arabs" and you got it.
A Palestinian is an arab from Palestine, just like a Parisian
is a Frenchman from Paris.
Then that makes even fewer Palestinains than they claim....
Susan
------
YOELK
Well, the number of palestinians does not change their claims.
I'll note that there are several claims circling around:
1. Claim of palestinians who live in the occupied territories
to be freed from Israeli milirary occupation.
2. Claim of the palestinian refugees to get back to their home.
Some of the refugees live in Israel, some of them in the territories
occupied by Israel, some in neighbouring countries.
3. Claim for the land, this claim is not on behalf of the palestinians
alone but on behalf of all the arabs (and some say all the muslims).
4. The right for self determination (e.g. Palestinian state).
While claims #1 and #4 are probably more supported,
#2 and #3 are the most important for the palestinians themselves,
This is the essence of the the post which started the thread:
"How dare jews buy a land , build a house and plant a garden on an arab land."
-----
YOELK
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| User: "z" |
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| Title: Re: Attention all Jews - map? |
30 Apr 2004 08:58:12 AM |
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(YOELK) wrote in message news:<28891102.0404300048.60f9ded9@posting.google.com>...
"Susan Cohen" <flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message news:<3Vakc.2189$sK3.2110@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>...
"YOELK" < > wrote in message
news:28891102.0404282008.7169c872@posting.google.com...
"Susan Cohen" <flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:<WcRjc.49686$G_.38361@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>...
"YOELK" < > wrote in message
news:28891102.0404280748.2f15fa64@posting.google.com...
Another question that I'd like to ask is
why some would consider it a Palestinian territory,
when we are talking about the time when Ottmans ruled the land.
I want someone to point out a time when the "Palestinians" ruled the
land.
Ever.
Susan
Susan,
Please replace "Palestinians" By "Arabs" and you got it.
A Palestinian is an arab from Palestine, just like a Parisian
is a Frenchman from Paris.
Then that makes even fewer Palestinains than they claim....
Susan
------
YOELK
Well, the number of palestinians does not change their claims.
I'll note that there are several claims circling around:
1. Claim of palestinians who live in the occupied territories
to be freed from Israeli milirary occupation.
2. Claim of the palestinian refugees to get back to their home.
Some of the refugees live in Israel, some of them in the territories
occupied by Israel, some in neighbouring countries.
3. Claim for the land, this claim is not on behalf of the palestinians
alone but on behalf of all the arabs (and some say all the muslims).
4. The right for self determination (e.g. Palestinian state).
While claims #1 and #4 are probably more supported,
#2 and #3 are the most important for the palestinians themselves,
This is the essence of the the post which started the thread:
"How dare jews buy a land , build a house and plant a garden on an arab land."
-----
YOELK
Well, there are two conflicting things getting commingled in this
debate, as usual with the subject. There is the 'right' of an
individual to their own property, or to satisfactory recompense for
the property if it canot be returned to them. This is pretty much
universal and accepted as just, that if somebody takes your private
property you can have it back or else compensation.
Then there is the 'right' of a person of one national group to live in
a state which is ruled by the same national group in perpetuity, and
not to have to suffer living under a state which is ruled by a
different national group. This is a completely different matter, does
not really fall under the heading of 'having your home stolen', and is
not nearly as morally obvious a right. People should have the right to
not be oppressed or be second class citizens because of their
nationality; but you can easily make a case that institutionalized
antiArab laws in Israel are a reflection of the hostilities, at least
currently. (You could make a case in the other direction too, but you
can't establish it absolutely without doubt in either direction.)
If Arabs want to move back to their property (assuming they can prove
they owned some) in Israel and live in peace, then it's hard to
morally argue that they do not have the right wherever possible, or
the right to be compensated where it is not. That may well pose a
demographic problem for Israel but that's sort of Israel's problem,
not the Arabs'. (I say this as someone who is bothered by the problem
myself, but it's still not the Arabs' problem). If Israel decides the
only way to deal with it is to bar the reentry of most Arabs,
especially with the current hostile climate, then they are at very
least morally obligated to 'buy the Arabs out'. Not the most
satisfactory moral solution, but at least meets the minimal
requirements, and may be the most practical one. On the other hand,
this cuts both ways; Jews who wish to live in Hebron or Nablus as
their ancestor did for 4,000 years, or new settlements in the West
Bank which were not taken from an Arab owner, have equal rights to
live in peace with their neighbors as an Arab who wishes to return to
his old home in Israel. If the Arabs get to boot the Jews out of the
West Bank, it's hard to say that Israel doesn't have the right to keep
Arabs from returning.
On the other hand, the Arabs living in Israel do not have any obvious
ethical right to an Arab-ruled state or a state ruled by Islamic law,
other than equal rights with the Jewish Israelis. If the Arab Israelis
can gain power through the democratic process and maintain it within
the democratic structure already set up, good for them, but we haven't
seen a lot of Arabic countries that have managed to do that, and in
fact the current complaint seems to be less about individual loss of
property, and more that the Jews 'stole an Arab country' and
Westernized it. This does not give me a good feeling for the
possibilities for a democratic transition to either Arab democratic
rule or joint Jew/Arab democracy until a long time has passed, if
ever.
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Attention all Jews - map? |
30 Apr 2004 10:22:00 AM |
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"z" <gzuckier@snail-mail.net> wrote in message
news:ab6ebb1e.0404300558.8cc592d@posting.google.com...
jkrup@shani.net (YOELK) wrote in message
news:<28891102.0404300048.60f9ded9@posting.google.com>...
"Susan Cohen" <flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:<3Vakc.2189$sK3.2110@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>...
"YOELK" <jkrup@shani.net> wrote in message
news:28891102.0404282008.7169c872@posting.google.com...
"Susan Cohen" <flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:<WcRjc.49686$G_.38361@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>...
"YOELK" <jkrup@shani.net> wrote in message
news:28891102.0404280748.2f15fa64@posting.google.com...
Another question that I'd like to ask is
why some would consider it a Palestinian territory,
when we are talking about the time when Ottmans ruled the land.
I want someone to point out a time when the "Palestinians" ruled
the
land.
Ever.
Susan
Susan,
Please replace "Palestinians" By "Arabs" and you got it.
A Palestinian is an arab from Palestine, just like a Parisian
is a Frenchman from Paris.
Then that makes even fewer Palestinains than they claim....
Susan
------
YOELK
Well, the number of palestinians does not change their claims.
I'll note that there are several claims circling around:
1. Claim of palestinians who live in the occupied territories
to be freed from Israeli milirary occupation.
2. Claim of the palestinian refugees to get back to their home.
Some of the refugees live in Israel, some of them in the territories
occupied by Israel, some in neighbouring countries.
3. Claim for the land, this claim is not on behalf of the palestinians
alone but on behalf of all the arabs (and some say all the muslims).
4. The right for self determination (e.g. Palestinian state).
While claims #1 and #4 are probably more supported,
#2 and #3 are the most important for the palestinians themselves,
This is the essence of the the post which started the thread:
"How dare jews buy a land , build a house and plant a garden on an arab
land."
-----
YOELK
Well, there are two conflicting things getting commingled in this
debate, as usual with the subject. There is the 'right' of an
individual to their own property, or to satisfactory recompense for
the property if it canot be returned to them.
And right here is where the Palestinian's clamims fall apart.
Most of them weren't even land-owners; they were tenant farmers, & the Jews
buying land bought it from their absentee landlords.Any land that actually
can be proven to have been owned by an Arab and actually stolen *is* paid
for by the Israeli government.
This is pretty much
universal and accepted as just, that if somebody takes your private
property you can have it back or else compensation.
Then there is the 'right' of a person of one national group to live in
a state which is ruled by the same national group in perpetuity, and
not to have to suffer living under a state which is ruled by a
different national group.
No one is making them stay in Israel, if they don't like it.
No one drove them out, either.
This is a completely different matter, does
not really fall under the heading of 'having your home stolen', and is
not nearly as morally obvious a right. People should have the right to
not be oppressed or be second class citizens because of their
nationality; but you can easily make a case that institutionalized
antiArab laws
There are none.
If anything, they get preferential treatment,.
They do not, for example, have to serve in the Army.
Israel does.
What most people pretend is "discrimination" has nothing to do with
ethnicity.
Checkpoints are set up where the trouble is.
If that happens to be wheer the Palestinians are, then guess what....?
in Israel are a reflection of the hostilities, at least
currently. (You could make a case in the other direction too, but you
can't establish it absolutely without doubt in either direction.)
Yes, you can.
Or, rather, I know I and others can.
[snip stuff either covered or agreed upon]
Susan
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| User: "z" |
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| Title: Re: Attention all Jews - map? |
29 Apr 2004 08:58:33 AM |
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(YOELK) wrote in message news:<28891102.0404280748.2f15fa64@posting.google.com>...
Another question tah I'd like to ask is
why some would consider it a Palestinian territory,
when we are talking about the time when Ottmans ruled the land.
-----
YOELK
That always gives me this vision of giant overstuffed footstools roaming freely.
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Attention all Jews - map? |
29 Apr 2004 12:26:58 PM |
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"z" <gzuckier@snail-mail.net> wrote in message
news:ab6ebb1e.0404290558.566b688c@posting.google.com...
jkrup@shani.net (YOELK) wrote in message
news:<28891102.0404280748.2f15fa64@posting.google.com>...
Another question tah I'd like to ask is
why some would consider it a Palestinian territory,
when we are talking about the time when Ottmans ruled the land.
-----
YOELK
That always gives me this vision of giant overstuffed footstools roaming
freely.
Brocaded tufted and betassled, of course....
Susan
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| User: "Yechidah" |
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| Title: Re: Attention all Jews - map? |
29 Apr 2004 11:11:59 AM |
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LOL!
YS
"z" <gzuckier@snail-mail.net> wrote in message
news:ab6ebb1e.0404290558.566b688c@posting.google.com...
jkrup@shani.net (YOELK) wrote in message
news:<28891102.0404280748.2f15fa64@posting.google.com>...
Another question tah I'd like to ask is
why some would consider it a Palestinian territory,
when we are talking about the time when Ottmans ruled the land.
-----
YOELK
That always gives me this vision of giant overstuffed footstools roaming
freely.
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| User: "redclay" |
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| Title: Re: Attention all Jews - map? |
26 Apr 2004 07:14:04 AM |
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Steve Wellsly <swbogus@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:108ppsn29ercf04@corp.supernews.com...
Anybody have a map (url) of the God-given Biblical Land of Israel?
(not the current country of Israel, but the Land of Israel)
I want to know how much land the Jews intend to take from the non-Jews.
- before 1890 - there was peace in the land
- 1890 - Jews claim the land belongs to them and begin moving in
- ever since - no peace, just constant hatred and death
Israel is a filthy disgrace to Judaism. Enough!
Try biblestudy.org.org and biblia.org for starters. It appears that
Abraham could see the back of his head. It was in the year 1882 the
invasion of the Jews began under the guise of agricultural communes.
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