Religions > Atheism > Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com?
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jim Spaza" |
| Date: |
10 Jun 2005 04:20:04 PM |
| Object: |
Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com? |
This challenge was issued by GlennGlenn (655321) -- aa#825.
What is wrong with the Christian apologetic website
www.answersingenesis.com ???
Please be courteous and specific.
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| User: "Frank ess" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com? |
10 Jun 2005 10:36:42 PM |
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Jim Spaza wrote:
This challenge was issued by GlennGlenn (655321) -- aa#825.
What is wrong with the Christian apologetic website
www.answersingenesis.com ???
Please be courteous and specific.
shut up, please, now.
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com? |
10 Jun 2005 06:19:58 PM |
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On 10 Jun 2005 14:20:04 -0700, "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:
This challenge was issued by GlennGlenn (655321) -- aa#825.
What is wrong with the Christian apologetic website
www.answersingenesis.com ???
Please be courteous and specific.
No offense intended, Jim, but I'm assuming from this that you're
probably a fundamentalist Christian who very likely accepts the Bible
(or most of it) as literally true and who has little or no knowledge
or understanding of science. After all, you wouldn't even be asking
this question otherwise. Always assuming, of course, that you're not
merely a troll.
It's tough to know where to start, because in fact there's nothing
*right* with AIG. First of all, it isn't a Christian apologetic site.
It's a creationist site, the avowed purpose of which is to debunk
evolution and promote the YEC agenda. The tone is arrogant, the claims
are specious, the "science" is bogus, the arguments are fallacious and
the goal is obvious.
AIG resorts to distortion, misrepresentation and outright lies to
promote the creationist agenda. Even the site name is a sham. They
aren't there to provide any real answers. Their aim is to gain
converts to young-earth creationism even if they have to lie their
asses off to do it. And they do. Lie their asses off, that is. :-)
I suggest you visit this site for starters. You might find the tone a
bit condescending at times, but it's no worse than the disdain for
"evolutionists" we so often find on creationist sites, so grin and
bear it.
http://home.austarnet.com.au/stear/default.htm
Here you'll find detailed examinations and refutations of many of
AIG's bogus claims, plus you'll discover that the *real* theories of
evolution, the *scientific* ones, bear no resemblance to AIG's silly
strawman version. You'll also discover that, contrary to AIG's
insinuations, the Big Bang and abiogenesis are *not* part of the ToE
For more detailed explanations of modern evolutionary theory, the
evidence supporting it and what it does and does not attempt to
explain, and to see why the evidence points to evolution and an
unimaginably old Earth, go here;
http://www.talkorigins.org/
Some of the information on this site, and other sites it may lead you
to, may be a bit technical for someone with little or no scientific
background. If you don't understand something, ask. More than likely
someone will be happy to help you.
Above all, understand that the information you'll find on these sites
is based on actual observations. It's real-world stuff. The
conclusions you'll find there were painstakingly formulated and
rigorously tested by a great many highly qualified people. They have
withstood the test of time and survived every attempt to prove them
false. They are in most cases as close to proven as it's possible to
be in science. Don't let your religious beliefs blind you to that
fact.
.
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com? |
10 Jun 2005 06:29:46 PM |
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In article <mq2ka15vl68g8j7fhb3q75evqjuhpktugt@4ax.com> John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> writes:
On 10 Jun 2005 14:20:04 -0700, "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:
Forgive the top post, but I couldn't snip anything.
A very nicely written response, and full in the spirit Jim asked
for, I think. Well done.
-- cary
p.s: the graphic at the Aussie site alone is worth the ticket.
p.p.s: Jack Sarfatti AGAIN? Is there nowhere to hide from this boy?
This challenge was issued by GlennGlenn (655321) -- aa#825.
What is wrong with the Christian apologetic website
www.answersingenesis.com ???
Please be courteous and specific.
No offense intended, Jim, but I'm assuming from this that you're
probably a fundamentalist Christian who very likely accepts the Bible
(or most of it) as literally true and who has little or no knowledge
or understanding of science. After all, you wouldn't even be asking
this question otherwise. Always assuming, of course, that you're not
merely a troll.
It's tough to know where to start, because in fact there's nothing
*right* with AIG. First of all, it isn't a Christian apologetic site.
It's a creationist site, the avowed purpose of which is to debunk
evolution and promote the YEC agenda. The tone is arrogant, the claims
are specious, the "science" is bogus, the arguments are fallacious and
the goal is obvious.
AIG resorts to distortion, misrepresentation and outright lies to
promote the creationist agenda. Even the site name is a sham. They
aren't there to provide any real answers. Their aim is to gain
converts to young-earth creationism even if they have to lie their
asses off to do it. And they do. Lie their asses off, that is. :-)
I suggest you visit this site for starters. You might find the tone a
bit condescending at times, but it's no worse than the disdain for
"evolutionists" we so often find on creationist sites, so grin and
bear it.
http://home.austarnet.com.au/stear/default.htm
Here you'll find detailed examinations and refutations of many of
AIG's bogus claims, plus you'll discover that the *real* theories of
evolution, the *scientific* ones, bear no resemblance to AIG's silly
strawman version. You'll also discover that, contrary to AIG's
insinuations, the Big Bang and abiogenesis are *not* part of the ToE
For more detailed explanations of modern evolutionary theory, the
evidence supporting it and what it does and does not attempt to
explain, and to see why the evidence points to evolution and an
unimaginably old Earth, go here;
http://www.talkorigins.org/
Some of the information on this site, and other sites it may lead you
to, may be a bit technical for someone with little or no scientific
background. If you don't understand something, ask. More than likely
someone will be happy to help you.
Above all, understand that the information you'll find on these sites
is based on actual observations. It's real-world stuff. The
conclusions you'll find there were painstakingly formulated and
rigorously tested by a great many highly qualified people. They have
withstood the test of time and survived every attempt to prove them
false. They are in most cases as close to proven as it's possible to
be in science. Don't let your religious beliefs blind you to that
fact.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com? |
15 Jun 2005 07:39:43 PM |
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Cary Kittrell wrote:
p.s: the graphic at the Aussie site alone is worth the ticket.
p.p.s: Jack Sarfatti AGAIN? Is there nowhere to hide from this boy?
Possibly not, but Mad Jack Sarfatti and Oz's cretin creationist
Jonathan Sarfati are
two enrirely different kooks.
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com? |
15 Jun 2005 07:59:35 PM |
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In article <1118882383.621207.18480@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> writes:
Cary Kittrell wrote:
p.s: the graphic at the Aussie site alone is worth the ticket.
p.p.s: Jack Sarfatti AGAIN? Is there nowhere to hide from this boy?
Possibly not, but Mad Jack Sarfatti and Oz's cretin creationist
Jonathan Sarfati are
two enrirely different kooks.
Ahhhh... thank you! I couldn't imagine the boy whose inscrutable
posts about physics I've seen on `sci.skeptic' (and whom I seem
to associate, unfairly or not, with Targ and Puthoff) -- I couldn't
really imagine him doing the Creationist Rag as well.
Thanks for the correction.
-- cry
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com? |
10 Jun 2005 08:11:18 PM |
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On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 23:29:46 +0000 (UTC),
(Cary Kittrell) wrote:
In article <mq2ka15vl68g8j7fhb3q75evqjuhpktugt@4ax.com> John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> writes:
On 10 Jun 2005 14:20:04 -0700, "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:
Forgive the top post, but I couldn't snip anything.
A very nicely written response, and full in the spirit Jim asked
for, I think. Well done.
Thanks, Cary. I cheerfully admit to being an unrepentant smartass
prone to one-line zingers, and I almost gave in to temptation yet
again, but after a moment's consideration, I decided that Jim's
question deserved a serious response.
His reply, if any, will determine whether I was right or wrong.
-- cary
p.s: the graphic at the Aussie site alone is worth the ticket.
It is indeed. :-)
p.p.s: Jack Sarfatti AGAIN? Is there nowhere to hide from this boy?
I'm beginning to think not.
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com? |
13 Jun 2005 10:20:23 AM |
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In article <drdka19fdojej5v68v3pqu4bisfg4lfs5e@4ax.com> John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> writes:
On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 23:29:46 +0000 (UTC),
(Cary Kittrell) wrote:
In article <mq2ka15vl68g8j7fhb3q75evqjuhpktugt@4ax.com> John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> writes:
On 10 Jun 2005 14:20:04 -0700, "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:
Forgive the top post, but I couldn't snip anything.
A very nicely written response, and full in the spirit Jim asked
for, I think. Well done.
Thanks, Cary. I cheerfully admit to being an unrepentant smartass
prone to one-line zingers, and I almost gave in to temptation yet
again, but after a moment's consideration, I decided that Jim's
question deserved a serious response.
I've only interacted with him a bit now and again, but he's always been
earnest and respectful with me. I can get along with a poster like
that no matter how much I may otherwise disagree.
His reply, if any, will determine whether I was right or wrong.
-- cary
p.s: the graphic at the Aussie site alone is worth the ticket.
It is indeed. :-)
p.p.s: Jack Sarfatti AGAIN? Is there nowhere to hide from this boy?
I'm beginning to think not.
I'd thought of him as a physicist, since he always has some arcane
physics discussion going on sci.skeptic; him and two or three others.
Little did I realize that he's a polymath. Or possibly a polypath.
-- cary
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| User: "Jim Spaza" |
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| Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com? |
11 Jun 2005 10:58:45 PM |
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John Baker wrote:
On 10 Jun 2005 14:20:04 -0700, "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:
This challenge was issued by GlennGlenn (655321) -- aa#825.
What is wrong with the Christian apologetic website
www.answersingenesis.com ???
Please be courteous and specific.
No offense intended, Jim, but I'm assuming from this that you're
probably a fundamentalist Christian who very likely accepts the Bible
(or most of it) as literally true and who has little or no knowledge
or understanding of science. After all, you wouldn't even be asking
this question otherwise. Always assuming, of course, that you're not
merely a troll.
Well, half your assumptions are correct. I am an evangelic Christian
who believes that the Bible is mostly literally true, aside from the
dream sequences, visions, poetic imagery, et. al.
However, I believe that I understand science and the processes involved
from proposal through conclusion and peer review.
If I were a troll and simply wanted to inflame and cause problems, I
would have posted something about homosexuality, politics, or the war
in Iraq and Afghanistan.
It's tough to know where to start, because in fact there's nothing
*right* with AIG. First of all, it isn't a Christian apologetic site.
It's a creationist site, the avowed purpose of which is to debunk
evolution and promote the YEC agenda. The tone is arrogant, the claims
are specious, the "science" is bogus, the arguments are fallacious and
the goal is obvious.
All quite possible. I'm not a defender of the site. Honestly, I
haven't studied the website from top to bottom yet. In another thread,
I was told that it might be helpful to post such a question in a
separate thread.
AIG resorts to distortion, misrepresentation and outright lies to
promote the creationist agenda. Even the site name is a sham. They
aren't there to provide any real answers. Their aim is to gain
converts to young-earth creationism even if they have to lie their
asses off to do it. And they do. Lie their asses off, that is. :-)
I suggest you visit this site for starters. You might find the tone a
bit condescending at times, but it's no worse than the disdain for
"evolutionists" we so often find on creationist sites, so grin and
bear it.
http://home.austarnet.com.au/stear/default.htm
Here you'll find detailed examinations and refutations of many of
AIG's bogus claims, plus you'll discover that the *real* theories of
evolution, the *scientific* ones, bear no resemblance to AIG's silly
strawman version. You'll also discover that, contrary to AIG's
insinuations, the Big Bang and abiogenesis are *not* part of the ToE
For more detailed explanations of modern evolutionary theory, the
evidence supporting it and what it does and does not attempt to
explain, and to see why the evidence points to evolution and an
unimaginably old Earth, go here;
http://www.talkorigins.org/
Some of the information on this site, and other sites it may lead you
to, may be a bit technical for someone with little or no scientific
background. If you don't understand something, ask. More than likely
someone will be happy to help you.
Above all, understand that the information you'll find on these sites
is based on actual observations. It's real-world stuff. The
conclusions you'll find there were painstakingly formulated and
rigorously tested by a great many highly qualified people. They have
withstood the test of time and survived every attempt to prove them
false. They are in most cases as close to proven as it's possible to
be in science. Don't let your religious beliefs blind you to that
fact.
I'll study all of those sites that you mentioned. I won't let my
religious beliefs blind me to anything. If the Bible is shown to be a
lie, then I don't want to waste my life on it. But, if the science is
shown to be incomplete and inconclusive in any way, then I don't want
to summarily dismiss an alternative explanation simply because it is
derived from a non-scientific source.
Thanks for the polite response. Given the "liar, liar" tone of other
posts in this thread, yours was quite welcome.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com? |
12 Jun 2005 12:38:12 AM |
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Jim Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:
Well, half your assumptions are correct. I am an evangelic Christian
who believes that the Bible is mostly literally true, aside from the
dream sequences, visions, poetic imagery, et. al.
Why?
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com? |
12 Jun 2005 08:36:44 AM |
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On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 05:38:12 GMT, (Ray
Fischer) wrote:
Jim Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:
Well, half your assumptions are correct. I am an evangelic Christian
who believes that the Bible is mostly literally true, aside from the
dream sequences, visions, poetic imagery, et. al.
Why?
Hehehe......
The Angel came to Joseph in a dream
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com? |
12 Jun 2005 12:56:10 PM |
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Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
Jim Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:
Well, half your assumptions are correct. I am an evangelic Christian
who believes that the Bible is mostly literally true, aside from the
dream sequences, visions, poetic imagery, et. al.
Why?
Hehehe......
The Angel came to Joseph in a dream
It was a serious question but I doubt that I'll get a serious answer.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Jim Spaza" |
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| Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com? |
12 Jun 2005 10:50:37 PM |
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Ray Fischer wrote:
Jim Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:
Well, half your assumptions are correct. I am an evangelic Christian
who believes that the Bible is mostly literally true, aside from the
dream sequences, visions, poetic imagery, et. al.
Why?
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
My own personal beliefs began when I asked myself from where all life
and the universe came. Given that something cannot be created
naturally from nothing, I looked to the supernatural world for answers.
Along the way, I tested other religions including witchcraft just to
see. The only religion that made sense across the board and was
consistent in origin, meaning, morality, and destiny was Christianity.
And that was before I accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior. Then, the
supernatural things began to happen.
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| User: "Enkidu the Atheist" |
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| Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com? |
12 Jun 2005 11:15:47 PM |
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"Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1118634637.602813.170430
@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Along the way, I tested other religions including witchcraft just to
see. The only religion that made sense across the board and was
consistent in origin, meaning, morality, and destiny was Christianity.
Consistent?
Ps.30:5
"For his anger endureth but a moment."
Jer.17:4
"Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn for
ever."
==Or==
Gen.4:12
"A fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth."
Gen.4:17
"And Cain knew his wife, and she conceived, ... and he builded a city."
==
The bible is filled with direct contradictions.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplin and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
Faith is a cop-out. If the only way you can accept an assertion is by
faith, then you are conceding that it can’t be taken on its own merits.
-Dan Barker, "Losing Faith in Faith", 1992
Now playing: Gabriel, Peter - We Do What We're Told (Milgram's 37)
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| User: "Enkidu the Atheist" |
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| Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com? |
12 Jun 2005 11:08:01 PM |
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"Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1118634637.602813.170430
@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
My own personal beliefs began when I asked myself from where all life
and the universe came. Given that something cannot be created
naturally from nothing, I looked to the supernatural world for answers.
You know this? How?
[Cross posts trimmed]
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplin and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
Faith is a cop-out. If the only way you can accept an assertion is by
faith, then you are conceding that it can’t be taken on its own merits.
-Dan Barker, "Losing Faith in Faith", 1992
Now playing: Gabriel, Peter - We Do What We're Told (Milgram's 37)
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com? |
13 Jun 2005 09:44:50 AM |
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On 13 Jun 2005 04:08:01 GMT, Enkidu the Atheist
<Enkidu.the.Atheist@gmail.com> wrote:
"Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1118634637.602813.170430
@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
My own personal beliefs began when I asked myself from where all life
and the universe came. Given that something cannot be created
naturally from nothing, I looked to the supernatural world for answers.
You know this? How?
From what his religion taught him. He learned it in his formative
years and doesn't realise that neither their questions (phrased and
loaded in terms of the religion's answer) occur to people outside it.
[Cross posts trimmed]
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com? |
12 Jun 2005 11:10:23 PM |
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Jim Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Jim Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:
Well, half your assumptions are correct. I am an evangelic Christian
who believes that the Bible is mostly literally true, aside from the
dream sequences, visions, poetic imagery, et. al.
Why?
My own personal beliefs began when I asked myself from where all life
and the universe came. Given that something cannot be created
naturally from nothing, I looked to the supernatural world for answers.
False premise leads to false conclusions. In fact something can be
created from nothing, and life can be created from non-life.
Along the way, I tested other religions including witchcraft just to
see. The only religion that made sense across the board and was
consistent in origin, meaning, morality, and destiny was Christianity.
The flaw in that approach is that it requires one to assume that ones
judgement is up to the task of judging the truth of God's books.
Always a dangerous assumption. Sometimes deadly.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Jim Spaza" |
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| Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com? |
14 Jun 2005 12:22:22 AM |
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Ray Fischer wrote:
Jim Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Jim Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:
Well, half your assumptions are correct. I am an evangelic Christian
who believes that the Bible is mostly literally true, aside from the
dream sequences, visions, poetic imagery, et. al.
Why?
My own personal beliefs began when I asked myself from where all life
and the universe came. Given that something cannot be created
naturally from nothing, I looked to the supernatural world for answers.
False premise leads to false conclusions. In fact something can be
created from nothing, and life can be created from non-life.
Please provide an example of something from nothing. The Nobel prize
awaits you, my friend. All you have to do is show how to create life
from non-life and you'll be famous.
Along the way, I tested other religions including witchcraft just to
see. The only religion that made sense across the board and was
consistent in origin, meaning, morality, and destiny was Christianity.
The flaw in that approach is that it requires one to assume that ones
judgement is up to the task of judging the truth of God's books.
Always a dangerous assumption. Sometimes deadly.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com? |
14 Jun 2005 03:46:21 AM |
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Jim Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Jim Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Jim Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:
Well, half your assumptions are correct. I am an evangelic Christian
who believes that the Bible is mostly literally true, aside from the
dream sequences, visions, poetic imagery, et. al.
Why?
My own personal beliefs began when I asked myself from where all life
and the universe came. Given that something cannot be created
naturally from nothing, I looked to the supernatural world for answers.
False premise leads to false conclusions. In fact something can be
created from nothing, and life can be created from non-life.
Please provide an example of something from nothing.
Modern physics allows the creation of matter from nothing so long as
it meets the limits of uncertainty.
The Nobel prize
awaits you, my friend.
He already got it.
Along the way, I tested other religions including witchcraft just to
see. The only religion that made sense across the board and was
consistent in origin, meaning, morality, and destiny was Christianity.
The flaw in that approach is that it requires one to assume that ones
judgement is up to the task of judging the truth of God's books.
Always a dangerous assumption. Sometimes deadly.
And like most zealots, your arrogance and faith in your own
infallibility leads you to have contempt for anybody who doesn't
adhere to your worship of self.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Jim Spaza" |
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| Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com? |
14 Jun 2005 02:31:57 PM |
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Ray Fischer wrote:
Jim Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Jim Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Jim Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:
Well, half your assumptions are correct. I am an evangelic Christian
who believes that the Bible is mostly literally true, aside from the
dream sequences, visions, poetic imagery, et. al.
Why?
My own personal beliefs began when I asked myself from where all life
and the universe came. Given that something cannot be created
naturally from nothing, I looked to the supernatural world for answers.
False premise leads to false conclusions. In fact something can be
created from nothing, and life can be created from non-life.
Please provide an example of something from nothing.
Modern physics allows the creation of matter from nothing so long as
it meets the limits of uncertainty.
Yeah. As if that makes sense.
The Nobel prize
awaits you, my friend.
He already got it.
Who got it?
Along the way, I tested other religions including witchcraft just to
see. The only religion that made sense across the board and was
consistent in origin, meaning, morality, and destiny was Christianity.
The flaw in that approach is that it requires one to assume that ones
judgement is up to the task of judging the truth of God's books.
Always a dangerous assumption. Sometimes deadly.
And like most zealots, your arrogance and faith in your own
infallibility leads you to have contempt for anybody who doesn't
adhere to your worship of self.
All in favor of decaf coffee for Ray from now on, raise your hands!
Seriously, why do you think that I believe myself to be infallible?
Why do you think that I worship myself?
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com? |
14 Jun 2005 04:58:25 PM |
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"Jim Spaza" <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1118777517.546391.210080@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Ray Fischer wrote:
Jim Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Jim Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Jim Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:
Well, half your assumptions are correct. I am an evangelic
Christian
who believes that the Bible is mostly literally true, aside from
the
dream sequences, visions, poetic imagery, et. al.
Why?
My own personal beliefs began when I asked myself from where all life
and the universe came. Given that something cannot be created
naturally from nothing, I looked to the supernatural world for
answers.
False premise leads to false conclusions. In fact something can be
created from nothing, and life can be created from non-life.
Please provide an example of something from nothing.
Modern physics allows the creation of matter from nothing so long as
it meets the limits of uncertainty.
Yeah. As if that makes sense.
Vacuum fluctuations, the phenomenom he is talking about,
have been experimentally observed :
The Casimir effect: a force from nothing
Feature: September 2002
The attractive force between two surfaces in a vacuum -
first predicted by Hendrik Casimir over 50 years ago -
could affect everything from micromachines to unified theories of nature.
What happens if you take two mirrors and arrange them so that they are
facing each other in empty space? Your first reaction might be "nothing at
all".
In fact, both mirrors are mutually attracted to each other by the simple
presence of the vacuum.
http://physicsweb.org/articles/world/15/9/6
Richard
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| User: "Mark Sebree" |
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| Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com? |
14 Jun 2005 12:34:09 AM |
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Jim Spaza wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Jim Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Jim Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:
Well, half your assumptions are correct. I am an evangelic Christian
who believes that the Bible is mostly literally true, aside from the
dream sequences, visions, poetic imagery, et. al.
Why?
My own personal beliefs began when I asked myself from where all life
and the universe came. Given that something cannot be created
naturally from nothing, I looked to the supernatural world for answers.
False premise leads to false conclusions. In fact something can be
created from nothing, and life can be created from non-life.
Please provide an example of something from nothing. The Nobel prize
awaits you, my friend. All you have to do is show how to create life
from non-life and you'll be famous.
Are viruses alive or not? They exist on the border of the definition
used by biologists, and the debate on this question can go either way,
and frequently does. Scientists can already design and create viruses
at will from simpler chemicals. So if you answered that viruses are
alive, then the Nobel prize for that achievement is already spoken for.
Designer simple bacterium is likely to be doable within a few years,
and again, I am talking from simpler chemicals. They have been able to
replicate the environment that created the precursor chemicals that led
to life on earth for 50 years.
Mark Sebree
Along the way, I tested other religions including witchcraft just to
see. The only religion that made sense across the board and was
consistent in origin, meaning, morality, and destiny was Christianity.
The flaw in that approach is that it requires one to assume that ones
judgement is up to the task of judging the truth of God's books.
Always a dangerous assumption. Sometimes deadly.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Jim Spaza" |
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| Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com? |
14 Jun 2005 02:48:06 PM |
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Ray Fischer wrote:
Jim Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Jim Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:
Well, half your assumptions are correct. I am an evangelic Christian
who believes that the Bible is mostly literally true, aside from the
dream sequences, visions, poetic imagery, et. al.
Why?
My own personal beliefs began when I asked myself from where all life
and the universe came. Given that something cannot be created
naturally from nothing, I looked to the supernatural world for answers.
False premise leads to false conclusions. In fact something can be
created from nothing, and life can be created from non-life.
Prove it, please.
Along the way, I tested other religions including witchcraft just to
see. The only religion that made sense across the board and was
consistent in origin, meaning, morality, and destiny was Christianity.
The flaw in that approach is that it requires one to assume that ones
judgement is up to the task of judging the truth of God's books.
Given that you don't believe in the supernatural, how would you know
the intellectual capacity necessary to "judge the truth of God's
books"?
Always a dangerous assumption. Sometimes deadly.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "DanielSan" |
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| Title: Re: Attn: Atheists & Skeptics - What's wrong with answersingenesis.com? |
12 Jun 2005 10:56:44 PM |
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Jim Spaza wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Jim Spaza <spaza9@yahoo.com> wrote:
Well, half your assumptions are correct. I am an evangelic Christian
who believes that the Bible is mostly literally true, aside from the
dream sequences, visions, poetic imagery, et. al.
Why?
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
My own personal beliefs began when I asked myself from where all life
and the universe came. Given that something cannot be created
naturally from nothing, I looked to the supernatural world for answers.
Who said that something had to be created from nothing?
Along the way, I tested other religions including witchcraft just to
see. The only religion that made sense across the board and was
consistent in origin, meaning, morality, and destiny was Christianity.
You mean, consistent in origin, meaning, morality, and destiny to you,
right?
And that was before I accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior. Then, the
supernatural things began to happen.
Like what?
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